Mind of the Crochet Designer podcast

Ep 9: Behind the scenes with Scheepjes, how does a big yarn brand operate, how to collaborate with Scheepjes and LOTS of new yarns coming

• Christina Hadderingh

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This is not just any episode... In this very inspiring episode I interview Audrey, which I like to jokingly call 'miss Scheepjes', as she is the head of product at Scheepjes yarns. 

What's in the episode? 

  • What goes on behind the scenes at a big yarn brand: Discover how a big yarn brand operates and what it actually takes to create all those amazing yarns!
  • What's next for Scheepjes?: We get amazing scoops on upcoming new yarns, new colorways and this years CAL
  • How to work with Scheepjes?: I ask THE million dollar question that every designer is dying to know... How can we work with Scheepjes??? 

Why You Should Listen:

If you are a designer who would love a behind the scenes on how a big yarn brand operates and what it takes to work with them, this is YOUR episode! 

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Microfoon (YXC usb audio):

Hi, creative and beautiful soul. Welcome to the mine of the crochet dishonor podcast. I am your host, Christina And today I have a very special interview line up with who I like to call Ms. HAPE. it's Audrey. She is the head of product at Yarns. And I talked to her about everything that goes on behind the scenes at scape. headquarters. A very exciting interview. We get a lot of scoops regarding new yarns coming. This year is crochet along. And how to actually collaborate with scrapers S a crochet. Shady. Sarner very exciting stuff. Grab your hook, grab your whip, and let's roll that tape.

Welcome, Audrey. Thank you for being here with me that I get to interview Ms. Scheepjes. Audrey is head of product at Scheepjes Yarn and she would really like to introduce herself. So take it away, Audrey. Hi, Christina. It's a pleasure to feature on your podcast. I find it very flattering that you refer to me as Ms. Scheepjes. You should totally get a t shirt, by the way. It's, it's absolutely a team effort, I'll just say that, but yeah, yeah, yeah. First to introduce myself, you know, I'm Audrey. I work for the parent company of Shape Years which is called Dubont. And I've been working for this company for, I think, six years, something like that. I think 2018 was the year I started and you know, I started out as a summer job working in the warehouse, packing orders, walking through and, you know, getting to touch all the yarns that were filling the aisles. And it really was quite an amazing experience to see behind a yarn brand in this way. And to be doing that. on the side as a job while I was still finishing my, my studies. And now I'm in the function that I'm in, you know, as head of product since March this year. So it's a new role for me. It's very exciting role. I'm, you know, working very closely with our research and development team, which I was a member of before stepping into this role I have now. I have a lot of experience with our publications, but also, a lot of yarn development and. Collaborating with designers and working, with colleagues too at the company to learn crochet. I've taught quite a lot of the different colleagues here, the basics of crochet, which has been really fun. And you know, obviously, I'm based in the Netherlands, which Shape is, if you know the brand, it's a Dutch brand, but I myself am from Australia. So I came across to the Netherlands about six months before I started working. At this company, so it's almost, that I've been here just as long as I've lived here to me, it's, living in the Netherlands is, has always been synonymous with working for shapers in a kind of a way. Yeah that's I guess in short my, my story. Yeah, so welcome. I mean, I'm just so excited for this interview because I'm just loving on Scheepjes and some of the listeners might know I was a Scheepjes blogger. I produce a lot of patterns for Schepius, worked really closely together with them. And I still am very much in love with the company and love to work with their yarns, as I'm sure a lot of designers do as well. And can you tell me a bit about what you actually do as a head of product? Yeah, well, I kind of want to take us slightly off track and just say, in terms of working with you, Christina, it might be fun to know we met, it was at a bloggers day in 2019. So just before. COVID. The last blogger's day that we've been able to have in person since then. And I was kind of just starting out in the team at that time, which grew to become research and development. And We cross paths, I think we're in a similar age group and it was a moment of like, Hey, there's other people who are our age who also crochet and then COVID came and it kind of put everything on pause for, for a little while. So I wanted to share that funny little anecdote because we've been able to reconnect since then. And yeah, it's just been really fun actually. And I remember that I thought. You were just teaching yourself to crochet and you were using Sophie's universe to do it. Yes. Like what a great project to start with. Yeah. A lot of people thought that I knew absolutely nothing about crochet and it wasn't a hundred percent true. I, I have, yeah, for a little while, but I'd never properly learned how to read or follow patterns. And so Sophie's universe. Which, you know, fans will know is designed by Deidre from Look at What I Made. Fantastic designer as well, who works with us a lot. It's one of those projects that is as interesting to beginners as it is for advanced craft. Absolutely. So yeah, lots of fun. And I managed to finish that blanket. I think it did take me two years though. I'm not a very focused crocheter. I think my attention could be built upon. But I made a lot of things in between, let's just put it that way. So I ended up with a blanket and I think two sweaters and other toys and things as well. So it took me two years, but not a constant crocheting just to, you know, make myself look a little bit better in the eyes of the community. But so as a head of product, it's an interesting question. The role in itself is something rather new for us. You know, our company grew a lot over the course of the past, I think five, six years from, I guess, a team of maybe in the ballpark of 20, 30 colleagues. And I think we're pushing, you know, 70, 80 now. And that's not really including Externally, there's been shifts within that. So part of those shifts were the, you know, creation of actual departments within the company. And it sounds very corporate, but it's not as corporate as it sounds. We're still very much family owned company with big ambitions. And so the head of product role was something introduced as a leadership role for the research and development team, but also very much closely tied to marketing and communications. I feel like it's a very highly collaborative role to be in. So, I call myself a little bit as like the organizer of decision making and it's not to say that I'm leading the decisions or making the decisions, but ensuring that everyone gets to share their vision for escapees. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You're like, maybe like a facilitator that makes sure that everyone else can do their job at the best level they can. Is that like a good description? Yeah. Yeah. And like where we see shape is moving in the future is a combination of perspectives from all the R& D team members, from the people who are in our sales team, from people who work for our procurement, you know, sourcing the fibers that we use, they have the direct contact with our partners who spin our yarns as well, and, who source our fibers and in the marketing communications team to, everyone has input and everyone has a different reference point. Some are thinking very technically, some are speaking directly to our retailers who are part of, our operations here. The marketing team, they have that. Direct contact with the community. You know, we have our Facebook groups. We have lots of people following us on social media under the shapers page. And sometimes we also just quite bluntly ask, what do you want to see us doing? Yeah. And that's an approach that, I'm trying to take so we can, create a plan by practically speaking, I'm planning then what are we developing 18 months, two years plus creating a vision. Yeah, with all of that input it was somewhat of a funnel experience, I get all the input and I have to narrow it down within the scope of what can we practically achieve. What makes sense strategically and what's trending. And then I'm also trying to look a bit outside the box too, because sometimes you don't know what you necessarily want next, we have to make predictions too. So, one of the values at our company is progressiveness and being considerate, and I see that as, trying to find sustainable options and yeah. Keep in mind our impact in our footprint and some yarns have very, practical in the sense that they're strong, they're lightweight. I'm talking, you know, polyesters and these kinds of things, there's still a huge interest in our community for yarns using those fibers, but can we look outside the box and find something that is functionally just as great but has less of an impact Yeah. So that's really where I'm trying to, in the bigger picture, make a stamp of my own. I'm very personally driven by sustainability and, the term itself I feel can be very broad. So narrowing that down into like, what does this translate to in terms of our yarns? Yeah. That's the challenge that I'm sort of working to, To resolve, if that's the right word, I don't know, but but it's hugely collaborative, throughout the week I'm having, meetings, check ins with representatives from all the different teams because everyone's input is so critical to developing. A yarn, you know, you just see the yarn that comes to the saw at the end when it's ready and it's all nicely packaged and labeled and everything, and, behind the scenes, like the initiation is okay, we had all like technical. Discussions that are happening prior to that idea, obviously being pitched or brought to one of our spinning partners. And then we're looking at certifications. We're looking at safety and quality checks and all of these things. And it's a huge process. We have our sourcing team working on that and we're getting in samples and we review and we repeat and we sample and we do all those things. And Yeah, at a certain point we're able to say, this is the order we want to make. Yeah. get everything put into production. So, you talk about all these steps from the first pitch to the final yarn, like, okay, we're going to place an order for this yarn, like a bulk order. Yeah. What's the runtime? Like, are we talking months, years, decades? It can be very dependent on, you know, lots of factors, you know, geographical factors you know, We're sourcing fibers from places that, have great labor agreements and we visit Our spinning partners one or two times a year, and they're also looking to get fibers as locally to their facilities possible. And, you know, we are working on getting all this information together and making that more transparent for our community. So that's a long term project as well, which falls under, the umbrella of, being progressive, being more open, trustworthy. And You know, so dependent on that location, it can take anywhere from three to six months from placing an order with our spinning partners to then receiving that yarn, nicely packaged and ready to distribute at our warehouse in Tenalo in the Netherlands. But even before, I mean, if someone says like, Oh, I have this great yarn idea for, like, I don't know. A world in a different fiber, how would you have to get that idea to the factory? Like, how do you want it spun? Which materials, what are we talking about? Because you say it takes like three to six months for the order. So I can understand for creating a whole new yarn takes much longer. Yeah, you're, you're right about that. I think it depends on, how clear we are in our idea and our view at the moment that we start that development process. And, you know, and quality factors too. So if we're sampling, reviewing, swatching and we want to make changes, that adds additional time. So, I guess anywhere from a year to multiple years, it can also be as quick as, within a month. If the, vision is clear and really happy with what we've seen and tested and sampled. Then we can move forward. And it's funny that you mentioned world as an example, I think a lot of people know. Shape his world. Yeah. Right. It's one of our like most loved yarns, you know? Yeah. In and externally the colors. It's the fuzz buzz I think is a funny Yeah. aspect. for the, for listeners who don't know shape, his world is a gradient yarn with a very long color change. It's a thousand meters from the top of my head, or a thousand grams. 1000 meters. Yep. Yeah. And so you have these color changes, but they are like fuzzy. So every time you get a new color change, you're like, yay, there's another Fuzzbuzz. So it's really fun to work with the yarn and design as well. I've seen memes about this in our Facebook groups too, quite like lengthy threads where people who've never used Wellbefore get a little bit concerned. You know like, what is this? It's because the collar joins they're done with hand and it's. Mm hmm. Like this fuzzy thing can be trimmed if you want to, but it does kind of subtly within your stitches. So yeah, it's funny. Everyone's always quite enthusiastic in explaining to anyone new who's at it's a fuzz buzz and this is what we call it. But we are working on. You know, extending the whorl line, I can reveal, so I'm very excited. There's a couple of ways that we're extending it. So we've Got our original whorl and, you know, colorways will be expanding. Let's just say this, and there may also be a slightly different fiber that we are doing. So keep your eyes open for whorl. Keep in mind though it's a spring summer. launch for the new fiber option for WorldSafe. So I think it'll be around the start of next year, maybe earlier. Oh, okay. Yeah. So we will have to wait. But it's always fun to build a little bit of anticipation. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Okay. So we have a little scoop here. Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Great. So I personally have been to the warehouse quite a few times, and I've One of the things I like to know is, because, I know that you are working next to the warehouse right now, right? How do you contain yourself? How do you not spend your day in the warehouse just petting all these amazing yarns? Well, that was a lot easier when things used to be on shelves and we would, you know, manually, Pack orders, right? But in the spirit of progressiveness and efficiency and also packing things better, you know, using less cardboard, we were able to set up an order. Packing system, sort of like a robot. You know, this is where my my vocabulary is a little bit limited, a logistics team who I've not yet mentioned are expert in this. The system is called Adapto and it's wonderful. So I can't quite go and grab the yarns like I used to. Okay. It helps keep us contained. Yeah. We do have a little department though, which they pack and send off any requests for designers who we sponsor with yarns. And now we help with a lot of commissions, a lot of magazines who work with designers to publish patterns we'll sponsor yarn. So we do keep a few of the balls separate from, from our regular systems. Yeah. Yeah. And if I need something quickly on the spot, generally I can sneak and find it over there, which is great. And, we're often doing creative, photo shoot planning and art directing for different projects or books that we might be patterns, patent booklets. So we might be creating and having a few yarns like that on hand is very helpful. Yeah. Oh, it's been a while since I was there, but it's just so awesome to see all these different yarns together. And it's also so inspirational because Oftentimes, I'm inspired by something outside of myself and yarn, just seeing yarn, touching yarn, looking at different yarns, is a very good way of getting inspired, getting inspiration for for new shawls and blankets and whatever. Yeah, for sure. So very nice. It's a challenge, I think, when I first sort of started working in the office, I was doing a lot of product description, writing, copywriting. Oh yeah. How do you translate the look and feel of a yarn into words? I mean, there's a lot of vocabulary that we use, but having the experience of touching the yarn is very difficult to replicate with a caption. Yeah. It's a challenge. Yeah so anyway, that's just a funny little thought. Yeah, yeah, that's true because I feel it's so normalized now to get your yarn from any website, but I mean I've had times where I was really disappointed when I saw the yarn on a picture online and then receiving the yarn and actually feeling the yarn. So it's so valuable to really go to that local yarn store and get your yarn there. So you can actually feel it and touch it. And yeah, that's so valuable, especially as crochet designers, you have to know what you are going to work with. Yeah. No, our yarn stores are crucial, you know, in Offering that opportunity. Yeah, absolutely. We have our stores listed on Ash Capey's website, and I know that many of them have web shops too. And it's funny, within our industry, we see a lot of business still very much going through the brick and mortar stores and wonderful, for small businesses, but there is also a growing online presence, of course. Yeah. And these things are two, considerations that we're discussing here at our company. The modern way to conceive is increasingly digital, but for now our presence is predominantly physical in our brick and mortar stores. Yeah, yeah. I talked to you a bit before the interview and you said you wanted to talk about new developments that Scheepjes is going through. So, let's talk a bit about that. Sure. Yeah, so I've shared already a little bit of a sneak about what we're doing with Quirrell. But there's lots of other things that we're doing, we're constantly reviewing our existing yarns as well as introducing brand new yarns. So. You know, recently we will have launched our undyed line of yarn, which is in different qualities called naked and you know, that's for hand dyers. And we've introduced a line as well of acid dyes. Oh, really? Oh, that's so fun. Right? Yeah. So this means that people will get to dye their own yarn just at home. Exactly. So don't be deterred by the name acid. It's not made of acid. No, no, no. But they're fantastic products. The brand is Jacquard. Jacquard Acid. Okay. Oh, yeah. The dyes are, you know, really concentrated. They're powdered hot water dyes. So, okay. Yep. They produce, level uniform color during immersion dyeing. They won't bleed or fade with washing. That's what Jacquard promises with it. So they're really intense. Very consistent as well. And you know, the only acid involved is white vinegar or citric acid. Yeah. So You know, one of the fibers that we've got in the line is a Bacillin wool. And this type of wool takes in the dye in a way that makes it really strong and solid. I've also got a alpaca wool blend in a chunky and a DK, we've got a sock yarn. So Yeah, it's for the hand dyers. Mm, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's so fun. I don't think my husband will like this at all, because, a few years ago I had this bout of, I wanted to dye and spin my own yarn. So, the whole kitchen was full with all these like gel dyes and a rough wool and I was going at it all day. So, Well, please let me know if you want some and for any hand eyes who may be listening and you know, you're designing, you have a, a platform, reach out to us and you know, we're very open to sponsor designers, particularly hand eyes with these products. So if you can Okay. Awesome. Yeah, either by our Instagram messaging page or info at scheepjes. com. Info at scheepjes. com. Right. So Instagram or email and, in the autumn winter, what we're bringing out, and I'm not sure if this will be launched once the episode goes live. So I'll just keep it somewhat vague, but we do have a DK Waite recycled Merino wool. Okay. Okay. Coming out soon. So in the autumn of this year, and it's, it's recycled certified. So we're very happy that it's using factory waste that would otherwise be discarded and into a DK yarn. We, very, very proud of it's, it's pure wool, it's going to be perfect for people who prefer a completely natural fiber who may prefer a recycled wool for the sustainability impact as well. There'll be 60 colors. So. Yep. And will Scheepis then also make the mini packs or? Oh, that's a, yeah, that's a good question. You know, we can always consider it. Yeah, I just, I just love mini packs. I mean, I've had mini packs from the Scheepis Katona. I've had mini packs from Stonewashed and then also I had this right on my shelf, Metropolis. Oh, Metropolis. No, I really love, I mean, because for designers it's so valuable to just, Play with colors and like these packs are contain all the colors of one range. And so they are perfect for color play and seeing what works and what doesn't. And I've also used this for my latest pattern. The Dark Forest Show and I just went live on Instagram and I said, well, pick a color, any color and I'll show you the combinations and it was so fun to see what's possible in other colors because color plays such a big role in how your finished design will look. Yeah, absolutely. Yes, please, to the color packs. Oh, we'll definitely look into that then. Toronto is another one where I think a lot of people were. Asking, you know, are there going to be ColourPacks coming back? And I can say that we also expect ColourPacks back in stock around August. Don't hold me to that though, but we're getting there. You know, they're on the way. So I can confidently say that we've listened and there will be more to write to ColourPacks. Yeah, in addition to those things and speaking of color packs, candy floss is a yarn that we launched not so long ago. It's a very fine, thread yarn. It's organic mercerized cotton used for miniatures. So, we decided to introduce a few more options with our candy floss as well. So I'm anticipating, that. Being ready towards the end of the year, maybe start of next year. It's a little bit difficult to give an exact time, but it's an exciting new range of colors and. Also including a collaboration with one of our SDC designers. So, we're also really open to collaborate with designers, whether that's sponsoring yarn, whether that's, you know, helping connect them to any publications, magazines, but also. So if you talk publications, then can you give examples of how other designers can work with you? Yeah, for sure. So we have, of course our own. Bookazine, our yarn bookazine, and we've got a couple other concepts in the works for different styles of, of pattern booklets. But we also, work a lot with magazines. There's a lot of craft magazines in the Netherlands, also in the UK internationally. And for designers who are up and coming, who are just starting out and looking for support or assistance, we support designers who self publish we can also help connect a designer to a magazine if that's a way that they'd like to work. Yeah. But primarily what we do and what we want to do a lot more of is supporting independent designers to self publish and offer support through, offering yarns and for other content creation, there's always room to talk, can we do something together? But if you're bringing a design out. And it's using Shape is Yarn, and you're not yet talking with us, please do, because in most cases, we are happy to send you that yarn at no cost. Okay. Oh, that's so awesome. I mean, it's really so valuable to just support each other because it's like a win win situation. If designers get to create more patterns, then Scheepjes gets to sell more yarn. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, it's so simple as that. And the designers profit because they don't have to buy the yarn themselves or they get to make it in an even better yarn. Yeah. So like, you know, other ways that we've collaborated with designers, you know, such as you, Christina, is the annual crochet along. And yours was 2020. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so, you know, we've run quite a few different crochet alongs this year. Towards the end of this year, we'll be launching more of a classic shape is cowl. It'll be just a crochet along. And we've got, you know, one cowl. Instead of a crochet along, knit along. You mean. Exactly. Yep. Yep. So that was something different that we tried and we also want to just offer our classic cow in two different yarn qualities. And, you know, we're also already thinking about our Cal for 2025. We have a designer lined up. I can't tell you who it is. I have to refrain on my marketing team won't be happy, but, we're also trying an different approach with that. So being sort of open to. Do things differently, something that we're really, excited to try and that we're able to try it is also fantastic and makes work, really, I guess, inspiring. Yeah. But towards the end of the year you can expect another shapers cowl. I know it's a big, big year of cows, for us as much as our community, everywhere. Yeah. We do these in, I think, three or four different languages. If you consider UK and US English two different languages. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep. And as you know yourself, writing a cowl pattern is immense. So, you know, this will be a blanket, you know, not an enormous blanket for your bed, but a nice little blanket that's got a lot of techniques in it. So I think it will appeal to. Awesome. Another scoop. This interview is full of scoops. I love it. All out there. And you know, I hope people get excited about it and Yeah. So, to talk about, how designers can work with us, that's another way. So we have our SDC, which is a shapers designer collective. Yes. Call it our shapers bloggers group. But as the internet evolves. So do the names of our groups. And this is a group as well where we, support designers by offering them, from our end, yarn support opportunities for collaboration, that kind of thing. And cross promotion we, we tend to share copyright. And now, you know, on, on several different things. And Yeah. So for the listener who doesn't understand what this means, that means that Scepius will publish the pattern under the Scepius name, but that you get joint copyright or that the copyright refers back to you. After a certain amount of time, I mean, this can be agreed upon by both parties, and this also means that you get to keep making money from your pattern, even if it is published by Scheepjes. And I think this is awesome because the biggest benefit of being a crochet designer and offering your patterns instead of offering ready made samples is that you get to keep. Making money from your pattern over and over again. I mean, you create it once and then you get to make money from it until infinity. So I really love that Scepius is working in this way that you get to help promote designers new and old, I mean, upcoming and already established and that you help them in this way and that they get to keep copyright. Yeah, so this is a something that we've recently, reflected upon and reviewed and I really encourage designers past and present who work with us, for patterns that they've published with us in the past, we are doing our best to initiate that outreach to many designers in our network But, please reach out to us and let's talk and if you're a new designer too, I would highly recommend being just very honest and direct about what you need from that collaboration and from that, partnership. And I think that's, that's really helpful to us as well to understand what, what do designers, expect, what can we offer and just have a really open, honest conversation with each other. And cause like you've said as well, the more that designers work with our yarns and create patterns that's, using our yarn, our Shapies yarn, that a win for us too you know, it needs to be a win win. And we recognize that. We can do a lot more to support designers. So shared copyright is something that was recently brought to our attention and, we realized why not, basically. Yeah. So very happy to be part of some of these changes that we're making a shape is Yeah, I I love that that's part of, the role that I'm in now too. To be part of really positive changes. Yeah, awesome. And I feel that a lot of. new crochet designers or maybe already are even established feel hesitant to contact big yarn brands because they are like, well, what do I have to offer? Or they won't even read my email, you know? And it's so nice to hear that you are much closer to them. than they might expect and that it is of value to reach out to you and to to ask for collaboration. Yeah, definitely. Just reach out, you know, message us, as I said, on Instagram or at our info at shapers. com email address. And what always helps too is to, share a bit more about yourself. You Instagram, we can see right away your page, your platform, your audience. Don't be too afraid, though, if you're still starting out and, you may not have the biggest following yet still reach out. What we like to see is, examples of what you're working on and to hear a little bit of your ideas, the kind of yarn, you're looking to use what your goals are as well. You know, we have so much yarn in different categories as well If you're looking for affordable or if you 100 percent natural fibers, there's always, the luxurious end of things too, that really is highly variable. So it helps us a lot too, when you give us a clear direction of what you want. And. a few parameters there that we can help to fulfill. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really helpful information. I mean I think that might keep some people back from reaching out to you, like, Oh, I don't even know how this works, what they need from me. So that's very helpful information. Yeah. Oh, you're welcome. And sometimes we'll then, you know, bounce ideas back. I'm mainly interested in something knitted or crochet or whether it's a beginner friendly, more advanced the pattern length too. So obviously, you're coaching people with crochet primarily and pattern writing and things like this. So you know, that is also hugely beneficial if you're working for Christina, then I know that your pattern writing is going to be fantastic. I had the pleasure of being one of the editors when you submitted your cowl pattern back in 2020 and fantastic. Oh, thank you. Clear, consistent, you know, the, the three C's and you know, those kinds of things go a long way too, as far as our willingness to recollaborate. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If you know, if you know that a designer is professional and creates high quality stuff, then yeah, of course you're ready to work with them again. Yeah, I will do a separate episode just on how to create high quality patterns, but that's for a different time. So, was there anything else you wanted to I mean, we've got a lot of scoops. We already covered so much, but is there anything else you'd like to to mention, to point out? Well, you know, I think we, we covered a lot. I'm really curious to see how the community continues to grow and to see more and more of people's makes and just please share your feedback as well. What are you finding with our new yarns with our existing yarns, what kind of colors are you loving your color? That's something we didn't talk at huge lengths about, but we're producing amazing yarns, but having the right color palette is. Absolute essential as well, and as a designer, offering a color palette that's going to, resonate to a season or resonate to an individual, what suits different. Skin I hair tone combinations and know whether it's garments or wearable accessories, you know, all those factors are things that we also try to consider when we're developing a collection of colors or colorways or all those kinds of things. So we have people working here as well, who are, graphic designers who are illustrators who are photographers, you have training in color analysis and all that kind of thing, you know, color really drives our development in many different ways and our commissioning too. And putting together mood boards and, having that overview of different seasons and influences is I guess a crucial starting point too. So Designers who can work really well to different tastes to different color palettes. We really appreciate that ability to and especially with bigger designs like blankets with lots of colors and I mean, garments to, yeah, color. It's everything. I wonder how you feel, Christina. Well, I'm actually doing a coaching call for my own coaching program, Mind of the Crochet Designer. And I have one of the designers there. She's really struggling with how to choose colors because colors can play such a big part in your final design. I mean, it can really make or break your design. And I, myself, I always view myself as not really strong in choosing colors. So I tend to stick to the colors that are also seen in nature. So whenever I create a forest inspired shawl, then it will be green. And if it's inspired by bees, it will be yellow. And I often also use, like, a neutral color with a popping color. And but when you really want to create something original or something different or offer different color ways for one design, then I also often just check what's already out there. I look at other designs just to see what colors work. And I also feel like. What I like is not necessarily what my audience likes, so I really try to come up with different color combinations and different, you know options or different yarns so that the customer can see what they like and what other different options there are. But if you feel like this is something that you really struggle with as a designer, there also are so many options on Colorplay. I mean, there are so many free software. I think Scrapieus does. Color inspiration tips every Monday, like doing an inspiration and then the different colors. And so if this is something that you really struggle with, either go with. Something simple like I do, like a neutral color and the color of the inspiration. Or just look at what your inspiration is or use software or just color play, I mean, that's where the Scheepjes color packs are for, right? Just play with colors or take out your coloring pencils and just doodle on paper, just see what colors work. And work with that, but I'm sure if you can come up with something that hasn't been done before, that's very original, that it certainly will help you as the Scheepjes brand as well in coming up with new ideas. Yeah, absolutely agree. And it's a, such a good point to make that, sometimes the colors that you really love and that resonate with you just absolutely don't resonate with your audience. And and that's something to definitely keep in mind. You know it may not feel natural sometimes to To design something in a color that is outside your own personal taste. And sometimes you just have to ask your audience and ask, the people on your platform, what colors do you love and what palettes or what inspiration, you know, resonates with you and we find that too in the team, we've got several people with several different tastes, so collectively, mm-hmm. We generally balance each other out and we don't end up too autumnal or too spring. We pastoral I'm personally not such a pastoral person. Mm-Hmm. I tend to be a bit more, you know, spring strong, spring colors cool color tones. I, I do appreciate a neon as well. Hmm. For fun, you know, I've, I've got colleagues who are really into the autumn tone and the, the more, ochre shades as well. And others who are very like blue hues, blue and neutral, they were gray and blue. And and, you know, when we're Asked our community what colors they love to, and, we noticed as well a huge sort of interest in neutral and blue tones and this kind of thing. But then on the other hand, everybody loves rainbow. Yeah. Yeah, it's such a classic. About color, etc. Everyone loves rainbows. That can be my closing statement. Right. So Audrey, I want to thank you very much for spending your precious time here with me today and that we, listeners and I, got so many scoops on Scheepjes and how people best get to work with Scheepjes. A lot of things behind the scenes. And I will make sure to put in the show notes every way they can reach out. It's been my pleasure, Christina. Thanks a lot for inviting me to participate. Now I'm just hoping that no one in the marketing team is upset with all the Well, then it's too bad for them, right? It's a great chance to actually get to, in a way, speak more directly with some members of our community and, and share a little bit of an inside because we are very proud and excited about what we're doing here. And it's a really great way to, to bring some of this inside information to. our community. So I appreciate the opportunity to be a part of your platform. Yeah. Well, thank you, Audrey, for this interview. And I'm sure we will talk again soon. I look forward to it, Christina. Thank you. Okay. Bye bye. Bye.