0:00 - [Music]
0:17 - Kyron Zimmerman: Hello everyone and welcome to the first episode of Maritime Mysteries of the Flathead with Kyron Zimmerman and Jeremy Weber from the Big Fork Eagle.
0:20 - Jeremy Weber: How are you doing, Kyron?
0:22 - Kyron Zimmerman: I'm doing great this morning. How about yourself?
0:25 - Jeremy Weber: Today, I'm doing pretty good. Nice!
0:27 - Kyron Zimmerman: Alright, so hopefully over the next couple weeks, months, years, however long this project goes, we can let people know what's going on and what we're finding underneath the waves in Flathead Lake and beyond.
Can you tell me a little bit about this project and how it came to be? What do you guys do exactly?
0:38 - Jeremy Weber: Right on. So, you know, I grew up here in the Flathead and, you know, recreating on Flathead Lake all every summer. And, you know, I was ice fishing in the winter, you know, you always see what's above the water, you know, beautiful mountain vistas and everything that's above the water.
But I have a bit of a different interest, you know, when I'm out there, I'm always trying to explore what's more. And surprisingly, there's actually tons of history that's underneath the waters of Flathead Lake that hasn't been surveyed very effectively.
So at a pretty young age, I got certified in scuba diving, and exploring the underwater world has always been a pretty major passion of mine since then.
0:59 - Kyron Zimmerman: Um, you know, getting certified here in the Flathead, you really don't have much other opportunities to go diving. And, you know, it's like you cannot go over to the Great Lakes or, you know, go out to the Caribbean or the ocean or anything.
So we have this amazing resource right here in the Flathead Valley, which is Flathead Lake, the Flathead River system, and neighboring watersheds where there is a lot of history just locked up underneath the water. So diving down and revealing or showing or documenting what is there, it's just a part of our history that has been overlooked for so long.
Up until recently, we haven't had the technology that allows us to dive to the bottom of Flathead Lake. Now I'm running advanced sonar imaging and ROVs, and of course, diving technology has advanced so much where we can actually go down and effectively document these sites.
2:02 - Jeremy Weber: Um, so I guess with my history and diving, you know, kind of what led up to this project is, you know, with my background and diving and my passion for science communications and educational resource development, I really kind of gravitated towards photography, photography and videography documenting for scientific purposes.
Put those two passions together like, "Hey, let's go ahead and document, see what's underneath Flathead Lake."
I know you did some projects outside of the US and around the area, but how did you end up back on Flathead Lake?
2:54 - Kyron Zimmerman: That's a good question. So back in 2011, I started traveling for conservation work. First, I went down to New Zealand, did a bunch of work with New Zealand Fishing Game, and had a really amazing opportunity to dive and document fisheries management so that they can develop a better comprehensive database for their freshwater fisheries, documenting how agriculture was impacting their rivers and lake systems.
3:25 So, to go along with the numerical data, all the scientific sensors that they were deploying and collecting environmental information on, I was employed to dive and document what those scientific numbers represented, and it was an amazing process. They dropped me off in these high tributaries above the irrigation zone. I would drift down, just like floating and snorkeling in these rivers, taking pictures of everything that I saw. Trout health, birds, fish, anything that was interacting in those river systems. And of course, the clarity of the water and how much algal growth was developing.
4:01 Over the course of a couple of days, I would drift into the agricultural areas, and then you could see immediately when the river was being affected by agriculture. It was almost like a pretty well-defined line. The health and conditions of trout and bird species really started to degrade. Once irrigation picked up in the summer months, the whole river stretch would essentially dry up below these irrigation dams. And then, just documenting the process of these fish getting isolated from the main tributary, the water just disappearing, and these trout essentially suffocating. That was a really impactful video survey.
4:41 When I came back to the United States, I was eager to continue those skills and develop my passion for underwater film work. Looking out over Flathead Lake, it's just a big open opportunity. It was calling to me.
5:00 So, absolutely. What is it exactly that this project is looking for underneath those waves? Well, it's not common knowledge, but before there were roads built around Flathead Lake in the late 1800s and early 1900s, steamboat traffic was the only way material could be easily transported from Polson up to Demarsville, up to the old Township of Holt, and Kalispell and Columbia Falls. The lake was our primary highway at the time. There was an immense number of commercial and private vessels that operated on Flathead Lake from the late 1800s to the 1920s and 30s. And a lot of those boats met their demise or were wrecked, leaving wreckage at the bottom of Flathead Lake, along with a lot of materials.
5:54 So, yeah, we're just going to see what is actually down there, to develop a more comprehensive survey or analysis of what is at the bottom of that watershed. Flathead Lake, as you know, is a very popular recreational site, and as more people come out to recreate on Flathead Lake
6:10 Those archaeological sites could be at risk of being destroyed or altered. One of the things that I feel is really significant is we could potentially lose this archaeological resource, we could lose this part of our history and not really know that it's there to begin with. Another really big concern is if zebra mussels or quagga mussels or other aquatic invasive species can get introduced. The mussels, especially, could significantly alter wrecks underneath the water, indigenous sites underneath the water as well that have been either deposited there at the time of their making or, you know, with the dam being put in, these sites have been flooded. So having an archaeological record documenting where, what, and how these sites are presently, you know, it's the best way to preserve them for future generations.
7:03 So do we know of any sites that have already disappeared?
7:08 Well, again, this is kind of a new survey, right? Right. A big part of this first couple of years is to document what's there. We do know of a couple of sites that we've dove on back in 2016. Diving on them recently shows that they have been altered since we first documented and dove on them. The Kiyomi has had some materials removed from it. You know, every big flood event or a river washing could potentially deteriorate a structure that could be out in the Flathead River system. Wrecks that are up in the Middle Fork and the Flathead River system, there's a pretty good chance that that's getting deteriorated, kind of on an annual basis. You have major flooding events, you have sedimentation, so wrecks and structures are getting buried by sediment as it comes into the river and lake system.
8:04 There is a site up in Dickey Lake. Again, it hasn't been surveyed very effectively, but it's an old logging camp. Back in the '20s and '30s, they would pull logs onto the ice, and that's where they would have their timber sales. Actually, it's quite interesting because a lot of that material has either fallen through the ice or sunk. People are going out there and removing, "Oh, here's a cool pickaxe," or, "Oh, here's a cool saw," and they're not really realizing the historical significance of that site. Anything that's been, I guess, lost, quote-unquote lost or abandoned for 50 years or more, that's it gets...
[8:46] Integrated into the Antiquities Act, so you know, newspaper.
[8:52] 10 from 50 years ago, it was litter back then, but now it's part of a historical context. Interesting. So it's a good part of this project, is educating the public, like, hey, you know, history is being made every day. And, um, yeah, that old leecraft boat from the 50s, you know, guess what? Now it's considered a historic site and it's part of our culture and part of our history, and it's important to document that to have available for future generations.
[9:19] So how do you know where to look and what to look for? So there are a very good team that I'm working with. Um, we've got Kyle Stetler and Ed Gillenwater, they're amazing historians. They've done a significant amount of research on the history of Big Fork and, uh, you know, the Flathead Flathead as a whole. Um, so you look for articles, they'll reference a shipwreck here and there, trains getting derailed in the Flatheads. So it's amazing that there is a lot of history that's already out there but not pinning it down to a particular site.
[9:52] Um, you know, just talking with the public, you know, we have a very amazing community who are, you know, they've been in the valley for generations, so they'll tell us stories of, you know, their father or their grandfather who was on one of these boats as they sank or have a personal story or a family history associated with this history, you know, these wrecks, these boats, these trains. Um, a lot of logging history and talking with folks, actually interviewing people who have personal experience, is a very cool piece of our history that we can still create, and oftentimes they'll drop some pretty interesting nuggets as to where these wrecks lay today.
[10:34] Nice. So what kind of technology, what kind of equipment are you using to explore these sites? Ooh, right on. So this is where I'm most excited about this stuff. Um, so the first tool that we're using, um, as far as hard equipment is the side-scan sonar. Um, a local community member donated this amazing industrial-grade side-scan imaging sonar system that's towed behind the boat. It looks like a big torpedo, and it can send out echolocation waves, right, echo-sounding through the water, and it'll return a beautiful image of what's on the bottom. And the amount of detail that this piece of equipment can produce is fascinating. So with the boat, we're towing transect lines. We have a preset map of where we want to follow.
[11:22] And we're towing the towfish behind us.
[11:24] And that's returning what images or what's on the bottom.
[11:28] So that's our first line of investigation, is deploying that towfish, marking targets with the GPS.
[11:36] Once we have a cool set of targets that we want to go actually dive on, we'll take the boat to where those waypoints are, deploy an ROV.
[11:48] An ROV is a remote-operated vehicle, it's essentially an underwater drone. It's equipped with cameras and thrusters, so it can navigate around, manipulator arms. One of my ROVs has a cool little gripper, so if we do see anything, like if you drop your car keys or whatever, we can recover it really easily.
[12:04] The ROV is our first line to go and investigate these sites. So to verify, is that a boat, or is that just a really cool conveniently stacked logs sitting at the bottom? Right? So we'll kick the ROV over.
[12:17] We'll pinpoint where the site is with the GPS that's established on the ROV, and depending on the depth, if it's within diveable limits, we'll send divers over, and that's where we'll collect detailed photo scans or a three-dimensional rendering or a copy of this wreck.
[12:36] And if it is too deep, I have another ROV which is specific for high-resolution imaging, and then that can be deployed to collect the photogrammetry rendering if it's deeper than 100 feet or so.
[13:00] So, what do you do with all of this information? It is being cataloged into a database. So the Big Fork History Project, they're the ones who are going to be collecting, putting together the database and putting together an educational resource to share with other museums and other historic organizations around the state. My job is to collect the information so that we'll have it on record, and then the Big Fork History Project and the BACC will make that available to different organizations.
[13:24] So, what sites have you found so far? Since 2016, when I was involved with another archaeological dive program, we located two sites based on that project. And last year, we did a really detailed comprehensive survey of the O'Brien Lumber Mill or The Summer's Thai Mill Plant. A lot of material, a lot of structure was submerged when Kerr Dam was put in, and also a lot of structure was either bulldozed into the lake after fire events or other events. They just bulldoze up, well, here's a bunch of material, here's the remnants of the original lumber mill. They just bulldozed it in as riprap or essentially like a water break. And then when Kerr Dam was put in...
[14:13] Flooded that all up, so it's all underwater to this day.
[14:17] So we've got the lumber mill site. We're focusing on a few other sites this year. We're going to be looking at De Marsville, the old Township of De Marsville before Kalispell sits where it is today. The town of De Marsville was probably about six or eight miles south of here along the Flathead River. It was built right along the river, so we've got landing sites, ferry landing sites, docks, all associated with that original township that are just in disarray. They were just left abandoned once Kalispell moved to its present location.
[14:58] That's a site that we're excited to dive on. We know where it is; we just don't know what's underneath the water. Same thing with Painted Rocks. That's another site that we're really excited to document. Everything above the water has been well surveyed by archaeologists and surveyors, but there could be a wealth of cultural information that's underneath the water that hasn't yet been documented.
[15:26] So, for this year, we're targeting sites where there's strong historical evidence that something's there. We're just deploying our equipment to verify what is there and make that available.
[15:51] We're diving on Woods Bay. We did a scan on Woods Bay last weekend. The sonar revealed some pretty interesting structures at the bottom of the lake. One sonar image returned, and it was very evident that it was a boat, but it's hard to determine exactly how old it is or from what era. Our next step is to deploy the ROV on it to verify what kind of boat it is and how old it is.
[16:11] So, are there any sites that you know of or that you've heard rumors of that you're excited about getting to as this project moves forward? Oh, absolutely. Well, what's really amazing about this project is there's so much community involvement and so much community interest. Now that we're picking up steam and folks are aware of what we're doing, I'm getting contacted by folks as far as Bozeman and another fellow up in Canada. There's a lot of interest in advancing this project, and people are sharing their personal stories and sharing family rumors. Hey, there's a gold dredge up here next to X Creek. Out in Woods Bay, that's one of the reasons that we were targeting there. A local resident of Woods Bay was telling us about a boat
[16:54] That their family was on their parents were on this boat, so they have a lot of cultural or personal connection to these wrecks in our waterways, and they're like, "Yeah, let's find them. Let's check these out."
[17:07] Glacier National Park has some pretty interesting sites that we're excited to dive into. Obviously, working with the park is a little extra red tape that we're navigating, but one of the amazing things about this project is that there is so much out there, and there is so much to uncover. It seems like every day, Ed Gillenwater and Kyle Stetler, as they're doing their research, are coming up with some cool stories for us to pursue. That's just part of what we're doing—following these threads, following these mysteries, and seeing where they end up.
[17:41] Let's see, we've got our current archaeological project, finishing our survey sites on Flathead Lake, at least through this year. We have about six sites that we're focusing on just here in the Flathead drainage. Woods Bay is pretty cool. We've got that boat on the sonar that I'm pretty excited to check out. Painted Rocks is going to be really interesting to document what's down there. I think the De Marsville site is going to be fascinating just because there hasn't been a very good survey done, and I have dove around those old pilings, and there's some neat stuff under there that I'm just really excited to document and share and bring to the surface, so to speak (pun intended).
[19:28] All the equipment is quite specialized, so it is pretty expensive. I do own the ROVs; I do own my own scuba gear, my own underwater camera equipment, so those are covered. But there is a lot of cost associated with maintaining them. For example, last fall, I had a pretty scary flood event with one of my ROVs. One of the seals started leaking, so as I'm dropping down to about 200 feet, all of a sudden, I start getting these alerts on my surface computer. So, you know, waterproof object suddenly becomes not waterproof. It cost about $2,000 to get everything replaced..
[20:17] So yeah, what we're doing is not cheap. We have an incredible amount of volunteer support, which helps keep costs manageable. Typically, I like to run a crew of about four on a boat: one captain, me operating the sonar and ROV, someone documenting and sharing the information we collect, and a fourth member to assist when and where available. This requires a lot of people to be involved in the project, and I'm really grateful for the volunteers who have contributed their time. This year, we raised about $26,000, which is enough to effectively conduct an initial survey on these sites. However, more funding would enable us to do more detailed surveys, capture more images, and collect a larger photographic rendering of each site. So this year, with a $26,000 budget, we can cover about five sites, but it's by no means enough. We are always looking for support from the community, and if anyone is interested in offering financial support, please reach out to the Bigfork Arts and Cultural Center (BACC), as they are managing the finances for this project. You can find them at baccbigfork.org. Anything that can be contributed is greatly appreciated in helping move this project forward.
[21:42] Alright, everyone, I think that's going to be it for our first episode here, but hopefully, we'll have a lot more of these coming up over the next few weeks, months, and years as we learn more about the mysteries that are underneath the Flathead and beyond. See you next time!