E29 with Kevin Palmieri. Finding True Fulfilment: Mental Health, Resilience, and Redefining Success

What happens when the markers of success lead you to the brink of despair? Kevin Palmieri, founder and co-host of the Next Level University Podcast, shares his transformative journey from early life struggles to nearly ending it all, only to find newfound purpose and fulfillment. Raised by his mother and grandmother in a financially unstable environment, Kevin opens up about the impact of lacking a positive male role model and the toll it took on his mental health, despite achieving what many would consider 'success.'

Kevin's story takes a pivotal turn in a lonely hotel room where a desperate call to his friend Alan altered his path forever. Leaving behind a toxic job and facing financial instability, Kevin ventured into podcasting, discovering along the way that true success is an internal journey. He emphasizes how supportive relationships and resilience helped him redefine fulfillment as a balance between external comfort and internal purpose. Through the trials of early podcasting days and emotional turbulence, Kevin's determination shines as he shares the wisdom he gained from his experiences.

The conversation goes deeper into Kevin's mental health journey, from severe panic attacks to the relief therapy provided. His story highlights the importance of gratitude and reflection in personal growth, urging listeners to embrace 'journey thinking' over chasing destinations. Kevin also discusses the impact of rekindling a meaningful relationship with his now-wife Taryn, underlining how genuine support can transform lives. Tune in to this episode for an inspiring exploration of overcoming personal struggles, finding internal peace, and achieving long-lasting fulfillment.

Guest podcast: https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/next-level-university-podcast/

Transcript

Nico: 0:00

Let me invite you to sit back, drop your jaw, tongue and shoulders, take a deep breath and, if you wish, close your eyes for a moment and feel the beat within. In a few seconds, you just jumped from your head to your heart and felt the beat within, opening up to receive even more value and fulfillment out of your business and life. And today's episode. I'm your host, nico van der Venne, confidant to successful CEO founders and entrepreneurs who are striving to achieve everlasting fulfillment. Welcome to the Everlasting Podcast with our next guest, kevin Palmieri.

Nico: 0:44

Everlasting Podcast with our next guest, kevin Palmieri. Kevin is the founder and co-host of the Next Level University Podcast. Early in his life, kevin found between brackets success, but after a brush with near suicide, he realized he wasn't living a life he truly wanted. I can imagine that, kevin. He became passionate about self-improvement and decided to make it his purpose in life to impact as many people as possible by becoming a role model podcaster and speaker. Hence again, wonderful to have you on the show. He has succeeded to make his podcast one of the top 100 with almost 1,700, and we just talked earlier, it's more than 1,700 episodes and 1 million listeners in over 170 countries. He has taken his life to the next level and achieved both personal and professional success. That is an amazing intro, kevin, and yeah, you know I got triggered by one word and I think you can imagine which one it is.

Kevin: 1:54

I'm going to guess success oh yes, absolutely. Understandably so. Thank you so much for the the wonderful intro. Nico, thank you for having me. I'm grateful.

Nico: 2:05

I appreciate it yeah, I, I've been looking forward to this conversation for for quite a while now. Um, I am. I am going to be bluntly honest, because I usually am, and that's my, that's my little thing. Uh, being radically honest and radically truth. I haven't. I haven't heard any episodes, but as of today, I will, because I have tuned in my car to being the podcast machine, because I've been enjoying so many different kinds of podcasts because of all the guests that I've met. But you're the first actual podcaster who's been in the top 100 that I've just met, and you just mentioned one word that triggered all of this and it actually confirms to me that whatever happens in the past creates who you are today. So, kevin, are you open or are you willing to tell us about your story and your challenges?

Kevin: 3:01

of course, and all that. That's why. Why I'm here, nico, that's why I'm here. I'm here to talk about the real stuff. I'm here to create perspective whatever it is.

Kevin: 3:13

So my story, I think an important part of my story is I was raised by my mom and my grandmother. I didn't know my dad. I didn't meet my dad until I was 27. And, transparently, I don't know if I ever really had a positive male role model in my life. I think I've always been looking, but I don't know if I ever found one that was aligned with the person that I desired to become.

Kevin: 3:36

So grew up lower middle class, did not have a lot of money. We talked often about how we were going to be able to pay rent. So that's still running me in some way, shape or form, right. Still still part of me today. I didn't like school. I didn't like education, believe it or not. So I decided pretty early on in high school that I wasn't going to go to college. Everybody else can go do their thing. I'm going to go find a job and everybody else is going to go be in debt and I'm just going to figure out my life Right.

Kevin: 4:04

So all my friends went away to college and I got a job at the local gas station and I pumped gas five days a week, six in the morning until two in the afternoon. Then I would go to the gym and then at night I would go train martial arts, and that was my life. For a few years I was like, yeah, this isn't, this isn't bad. I don't hate my job. I kind of have some time freedom, I get to go to the gym, I get to train martial arts at night. This is pretty good. But from there I wanted to move up and I wanted to trade careers and figure out what am I going to do with my life. So I was a personal trainer. I was a truck driver and a forklift operator. A personal trainer. I was a truck driver and a forklift operator. I cleaned bathrooms and floors at a hospital, hvac construction, on-call firefighter for a very, very short period of time. Many, many, many things.

Kevin: 4:55

But I eventually got the break that I was looking for. I got a job in an industry called weatherization. Nobody knows what that that means. All it means is we go into buildings and we make them more energy efficient. So we work in the attics, we work in the basements, we work on the windows, the doors, that type of stuff, pipes, whatever it may be. So I went from making 15 an hour in construction to 60 an hour at this new job, okay. So I just 4X my income.

Kevin: 5:26

And I had that moment, nico, where I said perfect. Everything I did up to this point that has led me to where I am today was worth it, because I'm now going to be successful. So, if you flash forward a few years, I think I got that job when I was like 22, maybe 23. If you fast forward a few years, when I'm 25, I have a model girlfriend, I have a sports car, I was competing in a bodybuilding show, so I was quite literally in the best shape I've ever been Stage ready shape, high paying job, new apartment, great friends.

Kevin: 6:05

From the outside, looking in, you would think I was successful, but internally I was miserable. I was depressed, I was anxious, I was scarce, I was afraid of my own shadow and one day my girlfriend got sick of all that and then she left me. Okay. So when she left, that was my initial rock bottom of. I look like I have it all, but I'm miserable. Now I'm single. I don't feel like anybody's ever gonna love this version of kev. I don't feel like I'm even lovable as much as I wish I could say.

Kevin: 6:41

That was the time where I said well, it's really time to work on me. If I work on me, my everything will change. No, I thought, nico, this is what I thought. I'm just not successful enough. So if I go make more money, most of these problems will probably just fade out. They'll dissolve into something else.

Kevin: 7:01

So the next year I grinded my face off and I worked as much as I could because I wanted to make as much money as possible. That year in our company was the busiest year we had ever had. So I spent 10 months living on the road, hotels, different states, different parts of the East Coast, because a lot of our contracts were just in other states. So we get to the end of that year and I was opening my final pay stub and this is a good illustration of how often I was home. I didn't have kitchen chairs for my kitchen table because my girlfriend took them, my ex-girlfriend took them. They were hers and I was never home, so I just didn't buy new ones. I was I was literally gone that much where I never ate at my table ever. I don't know if I ever had a meal at my kitchen table. So I opened my final pay stub and I made a hundred thousand dollars at 26, with no college degree.

Kevin: 7:57

But I had another one of those subtle reminders where I remember thinking that nothing internally changed. My bank account was different, I was more financially abundant, and that buys choices, and I understand that. But internally, I was no more confident, I was no more secure, I didn't love myself anymore, I didn't know myself any better than I did before, and I realized shortly thereafter that for most of my life I had lived unconsciously. I have no idea why I'm doing what I'm doing. I'm just hoping for the best. The opposite of unconscious is hyperconscious. So this is where it all started.

Kevin: 8:34

In 2017, I started a podcast called the Hyperconscious Podcast and I wanted to have cool conversations with cool people about cool stuff. That was it in the beginning. What are you afraid of? What are you drawn to? What's your deepest fear? What's your deepest regret? Just let's talk about the real stuff. But, as you know, in the beginning there are not people lining up saying Kev, this podcast is great, I'm going to give you like a life-changing amount of money so you can just do it.

Kevin: 9:03

I wish it happened that way. It didn't happen that way, so I had to keep going to this job that I now loathed. I reached the pinnacle of what I was going to do with this job. I don't want to do the same thing again. So every time I'm packing my bag to go head out on the road for a week, I'm getting homesick already. I'm getting this pit in my stomach, I'm anxious, I'm getting depressed, but I have to keep going because I have to pay the bills. So I start calling out of work, start leaving the job site early, showing up late. I just don't care anymore. I don't, I'm out, I'm out. But I have to be here.

Kevin: 9:40

And eventually it got to the point where I was six hours away from home in a hotel room in New Jersey the state New Jersey. My alarm clock went off at 515 or 530 in the morning. I sat up, slid to the edge of the bed, shut off my alarm and I was lacing up my work boots, as I had done a thousand times before. But that morning it was different. It was like there was 10 televisions on in my head at the same time and every single one was on a different station.

Kevin: 10:09

One is saying you're stuck here forever, kev, the type of person that you are, you don't get opportunities like this. Never mind, leave it behind, behind. Can you imagine? A kid who didn't go to, didn't do well in high school, didn't go to college, and there was not a lot of hope for Kevin. And I'm now a six figure earner and I have a lot of results. What are you going to do? You're going to leave that behind. My goodness, if you did make that choice, what would your friends think? You make more money than all of your friends. There's a lot of significance there, right? My friends kind of look up to me, which was nice. That was a different feeling for me. What's your family going to say? I make more money than anybody in my family ever has, and that's I'm proud of that. I feel like I really accomplished something. And then the biggest one, nico, was uh, what are you going to do? You're going to podcast. That's it. That's the fallback plan. Be a podcaster, that's what we're going to do, my goodness.

Kevin: 11:09

So it was in that moment where I thought to myself well, if I was just to take my life, I would take all these problems with me and I wouldn't have to worry about solving this. I wouldn't have to worry about any of this stuff. So I'm six hours away from anybody who cares about me in a crusty, dirty, dark hotel room thinking about the fact that if I wasn't here, everything would be a lot easier. I'm blessed because I have amazing people in my life. I am just blessed. I have awesome friends. My wife's amazing, the people around me are awesome.

Kevin: 11:37

So I reached out to one of my friends, who's now my business partner, and I said alan, I'm struggling, brother, I'm having those thoughts, those feelings. You know when you get to that real dark place and you don't know if you want to keep going. What do I do? I don't know what to do. And he said many things, but the thing I remember most, the thing that stands out the most, was kev. Over the last couple years, your awareness has changed a ton, but your environments have remained the same.

Nico: 12:05

Okay, he's very wise a lot of wisdom, a lot of wisdom, right so?

Kevin: 12:11

right, yeah, I reached out to the right one for sure. So that gave me perspective and I think what it did was it gave me a light at the end of the tunnel that it was like okay, he has a point, that there is opportunity here and it doesn't have to be as dark and doom and gloom as I'm feeling. So I ended up leaving that job three or four months later. Him and I partnered up and that was it. That was the beginning of I'm going to be a full-time podcaster, and the next two years, nico, were nothing short of brutal, absolutely. I mean, I was having panic attacks to the point where I thought I was gonna die. I couldn't afford to pay my bills, my I got sent to collections for my car. I couldn't get my now wife christmas presents for one year. It was. It was one of the more trying times of my life. It was absolutely brutal.

Kevin: 13:08

And then we grew through it and I learned more and we practiced more and that type of stuff. And now we're quote unquote. We probably look quote unquote successful now. But here's the truth of the matter. The truth of the matter is I am more fulfilled than I've ever been and that's why I believe I'm more successful than I've ever been. But do I have more external results? Sure, do I have more internal fulfillment? A million percent, and I think I've been super fulfilled but broke, and that was really, really challenging. I've been very, very well off and not fulfilled at all, and that sucked too. So I think now success is that it's external comfort and choice and internal fulfillment, pride, purpose, direction, intention. I think that's probably the new, upgraded definition of success.

Nico: 14:12

You got me stumped there. It's an amazing story. Honestly, I'm not sure if I'm the right person to say this, but I am a human being and we are interconnected through the weave, as they say, and I can only say I am proud of you.

Kevin: 14:30

I appreciate that you are the right person, 100%. You are the right person.

Nico: 14:33

Thank you as well. It is something. Can I backtrack a little bit Absolutely what you said? Can you still bring up the idea of what question went through your head? You know the time when your girlfriend left and the period right after that. You know challenging times as well and then you ended up in that one room before you called your now business partner. Can you remember in any way what kind of specific question one or two always came up in your mind during that period?

Kevin: 15:14

We used to have a running joke at my company. We would laugh about it, but I think there was an undertone of it. I used to say I would kill myself if I ever lost this job. It was a running joke because we knew how blessed there were jobs that I was on, where I was making a hundred and twenty dollars an hour. If I worked an eight hour day, I was making a foul. I was making a thousand dollars a day.

Kevin: 15:39

That for me, was unfathomable. So the question, the biggest question for me was how am I ever going to live the same life I'm living if I don't continue doing what I'm doing? It was that it was. Am I willing to take a massive step backwards? Can my psyche even handle that? Going back to a and again, I'm not making this wrong for anybody, but going back to like an entry-level job I am I going to be able to do that Is my? Is my ego? Is my significance? Am I going to be able to do that? Is my ego? Is my significance? Am I actually going to be able to do that? And I didn't think I could. I had leave the house. Who is afraid of his own shadow? Who is definitely socially awkward or socially possibly fall in love with this person and stay with this person. I would say those were, those were the big ones running on for, unfortunately, did you get an answer?

Kevin: 17:03

man. To the first question, yes, and the the answer was what I think, what I feel, what I experience and the final thoughts that I have before I go to bed are far more important than anything. External. Fulfillment's this weird thing where some of the most fulfilled people always look like they're losing and some of the least fulfilled people always look like they're losing and some of the least fulfilled people always look like they're winning. I have someone that I'm thinking of that every time you see a picture of them they're traveling somewhere in the world. I know this person behind the scenes. They're not fulfilled, I'm certain of it. I can, you can just tell. There's just certain tells. You see, it's like, like that's something I know Cause I used to do the same thing. But I know people who are on a mission and on there they feel like they're on purpose and they're living intentionally and they feel like they're growing and contributing towards something greater than themselves. And they have very little to show for it, but they're the most fulfilled people you might ever meet. And they have very little to show for it, but they're the most fulfilled people you might ever meet. So that was something that really started to help me. That was an answer to that one.

Kevin: 18:18

Eventually, I did get an answer to the second one. Yeah, eventually it was oh man, it was probably I don't know five years later, after that, 2016 yeah, it was probably three or four years later and I remember I was hanging out with my friends and I was just so lonely, I had done the like friends with benefits thing and dated around and I had done that it was. It was relatively empty for me and I knew that was I didn't want to live there, and I was talking to my friends and I was like I'm just so lonely and I just feel like I, I want to find someone who gets me, like, who understands why I do what I do, because nobody, everybody was like oh, you're a podcast, like that's cute, like what, what else? Though? It's like no, no, this is what I'm meant to do, like this is my thing. I want to change the world with this. Like, oh, yeah, that's cute, like what do you? It was that nobody really got it. So I, I said to my friends, I said you know who would get me? Taron would get me, and taron my wife now was somebody who I dated earlier in life, after that breakup.

Kevin: 19:36

After that bad breakup, I ended up dating Taryn shortly thereafter and she was too much for me. She was too smart. She was too aware she had studied self-improvement long before I had and it scared the pants off of me Because I was just a bodybuilder who wanted to get jacked and hang out. I didn't want to have deep conversation. I wasn't there yet.

Kevin: 20:03

So eventually, as I podcast and as I work on my self-awareness and I learn a ton and I learn about me and psychology and all this stuff it was like that she'd get me.

Kevin: 20:13

I know she because back then she believed in me long before I believed in myself. She would get me. Unfortunately, she was dating someone when this all happened, so I had to watch her date someone and eventually I saw that she broke up with this person and I reached out and asked her if she wanted to get coffee and I told her she's like we had a conversation about it later she said I didn't realize you were going out with me because you wanted to date me. And I said that's the only reason I reached out to you that the day that we went out, that was our first day being together as far as I was concerned like that's why I I reached back out, because I I knew you would get me and I had not met any other woman up to that point, who just who I thought would understand why I do what I do and that yeah.

Kevin: 20:57

So it took me years to figure those things out, but eventually I got answers. Yeah.

Nico: 21:02

Ah, that's beautiful, that's really beautiful, because that's that's what a lot of people get stuck with. You know those questions that have been going through those heads all the time. And then, even if they come to that point where you are saying the fulfillment's there, everything what you wish for, you're happy, and it is a daily, daily thing, that's there. You also probably have your lesser days, as they say, and everybody who has had those periods has lesser days, but knows how to tackle them and understand what that means. And it's this, too, shall pass is one of the sentences that goes through my mind on a regular basis when I'm at that point. I find it amazing that what you're telling me, your story, has a lot of similarities with my own past, and there are some key things there.

Nico: 21:50

There I also met the lady of my life, um, and I've been married to her for, for let me guess, yeah, the 28th. We're, uh, 16 years. Congrats, beautiful. Two kids, you know, two boys and, um, the way we started our relationship is is actually pretty freaky. Um, I met her in I think it was 2002 and there was this, this, uh, classic thank god it's friday. You know, tgif in the company, uh, I worked, I worked a lot a law firm. I was an it guy within the law firm and we just on friday evening between six and eight, everybody had a drink, so we went upstairs. It was called the Seventh, of course it was on the seventh floor, very logical. They are lawyers, so they don't think further than that.

Nico: 22:42

With all due respect, I was up there with my colleagues. She was the secretary of one of the lawyers there. Uh, she was, um, we were joking around and stuff, and and one of the guys knew her and so she came close to us and and she was like, well, yeah, blah, blah, blah, and at some point she's, oh, I feel I feel tired, and she was standing right next to me and just, you know, dropped her head on my shoulder and she's like you are the right height, you're the perfect guy, aren't you? I was like like what, what, what, what's happening here? So I had a relationship at the time and she just broke up a little while earlier and after that evening we just had fun with each other. You know, nothing happened out of the relationship that I had, but we were good friends and I could talk to her about loads of stuff and, like you were saying, you know, deep conversations it was possible with her. And, um, I think a month or three, four later, I told my now ex-girlfriend, um, that I had met somebody that I am really keen on and I am not sure if I want to continue the relationship with her, and at that point she was still, you know, really into our relationship. So you really wanted to, you know, continue. So we talked it out a little bit. What has what? The reason was why I wasn't feeling like and she was blah, blah, blah. So at that point I did something really horrible and I hope she's still able to forgive me even after all these years, I guess. So she married me anyway. So still able to forgive me even after all these years, I guess. So she married me anyway. But I dropped her like a rock. I didn't even talk to her anymore. We used to send emails back and forth the whole day long. So completely stopped For about three years.

Nico: 24:26

I continued in my other relationship, and the more I continued in that relationship, the more of a rag I became. So I was completely empty. I gamed, I went to the office, I did my job, I traveled around Europe, I went to all the major cities, blah, blah, blah. I did a lot of traveling and had a lot of fun in a certain way, but still felt empty all the time. So at that point she met somebody else while I was off traveling, and then I came home and at some point it kind of came out that she was in love with the guy and our relationship ended a week later or something like that, and I was lost, kind of similar to what you're saying. I was lost, I didn't know, but I knew there was one person.

Nico: 25:17

If I would just walk into her office, she, I just, you know, you have the feeling Like you said. You know they just get you, you know, and I think I spent a month alone just trying to get you know the bachelor feeling, but it wasn't my thing. So I've always had somebody in my life and my previous relationship was nine years, so it's kind of you're used to have somebody around. And then at some point I got it in my mind. I said, okay, you know what, fuck it, I'm just going to ask her. I went into her office and we have a saying as we find somebody and we're in a relationship, we say we are off the street, off the road, and so I said the other way around. I said I'm on the road Just standing in her office, hadn't talked to her for almost three years.

Nico: 26:10

She was holding one of these big paper just standing in her office, hadn't talked to her for almost three years. She was, you know, holding one of these big paper bunches and she's like, what, what? She didn't know what was happening and she just sat down at their desk. He's like, so what does that mean? I'm like, hey, you want to go out, you want to, you know, get some, get some food or have a walk or whatever, let's do this. And she's, oh, okay, yeah, fine, and we started walking around. Um, so I, I worked in brussels and we have this beautiful park in front of the, the royal palace, and we just, I think for the coming weeks, almost every lunchtime, we walked around, we just talked to each other and we were actually defining how many kids, how we were going to raise them, what religion, blah, all those things that you would think you would put in a contract we actually talked about. But we were both, you know, reaching the 30 and we were like, had relationships, we were clear on what we wanted and so on, and then at some point we hooked up and the rest is history.

Nico: 27:12

But I did not heal from the previous relationship. So while I was in a relationship with her, I got my biggest depression, which was I was just way under it, ended, physically and mentally, and when that happened, she was so immensely supporting. She was always there for me and she actually told me after that that sometimes she was scared of leaving me alone. You know just, she had to do her job, of course, and she had to go to Brussels, which was like an hour train ride back and forth. So, yeah, you can imagine that that point of time sometimes is like, oh, what is he going to do? And and I had indeed suicidal thoughts. I had those. But the strange thing that I have always found and and after so many years you still think about it is that they were thoughts and and I learned that that was the only thing I had. My body didn't want it or anything else. It was a mental point of thinking about ending it all and taking the easy way out, as I kind of looked at it. Because, in any case, for the listeners, if you are in that position, please search the necessary help. There's always somebody there who loves you and who will support you. So let's make that very clear.

Nico: 28:40

And through the whole period I took antidepressants and all that chisel, but what I also learned is to one to meditate, mindfulness. But especially, what I started to understand is that depression is a form of removing the mask. The mask. You know the old mask, the old person that you used to be. You're removing that person and you have to go through a trial of pain and discovery to find out who you are in essence. Basically, you're returning to the real I as I say. So, I don't know how you tackled at that point in time. So you talked to your now business partner, but how did that happen for you? After those moments passed by?

Kevin: 29:34

I went to therapy. Yeah, I went. I went to therapy because I, as I was becoming more aware, I realized that the reason I feel the way I feel today is not really based on anything that happened tomorrow or yesterday or last week, probably the fact that I was I didn't know my dad and I felt abandoned and I never felt smart enough and I've never felt significant and I'm terrified to disappoint people.

Kevin: 30:01

I wonder if that stuff is plaguing me still to this day. And it was. It was that I went for more awareness. I went to, I went to therapy. Yeah, I went to therapy and it was super helpful for me, so much in fact, where I emailed, I stopped going from. I mean, when's the last time I went? I haven't gone to therapy in probably like six years at least.

Kevin: 30:24

I just messaged a therapist the other day saying like I'd really like to get back into this because I feel like there are, I feel like I'm being held back in some places. My mental health is not bad. I'm in a great, a great space mental health wise, but it's like I know there's some inner stuff that's holding me back from external growth and I know that if I hold myself back from external growth, I am also holding myself back from more internal growth and it becomes this, it becomes this thing. So, yeah, I seeked out therapy. That was a very big thing for me and then, honestly, I tried to focus on fulfillment. I tried to do stuff that fulfilled me podcasting and all that stuff when I left my job, nico, my depression pretty much went away okay so it was very I traded.

Kevin: 31:17

I traded in all of my freedom. I traded in all of my certainty so I could make money. I'm a very certainty driven and my number one core value is being able to do what I want when I want. I traded all of that in for money. Of course, I'm miserable, right. I'm quite literally choking off things that value me for another thing, things that I value for another thing that I value, and it just doesn't make sense and it's not sustainable. So, yeah, therapy was number one, learning about me and self-awareness was number two, but when I ended up leaving my job, my mental health, in terms of depression, got better. My anxiety got way worse, but the depression got better.

Nico: 31:58

Okay, that's one of the two.

Kevin: 32:01

That's a good score, I thought they were both going to go away, but one actually got worse yeah.

Nico: 32:08

So when you talk about fear or anxieties and all that shizzle, in essence, did it hold you back to continue creating a more fulfilling life?

Kevin: 32:36

No, because and this is a very dangerous thing my business partner is a very type, a genius, for lack of I mean. He's a genius in many ways. It's hard to explain, but he's the type of guy who works seven days a week. He could work 24 hours a day if you'd let him. He is just that he was not put on this planet to do anything other than impact the world. That's why he's here. He doesn't go to barbecues, he doesn't watch sports, he doesn't care, he doesn't have many friends, because that's not what he's here to do. He's here to maximize his potential and change the world.

Kevin: 33:02

I tried to keep up with him, which was really good for my growth, but it was really bad for my mental health. One of the reasons I think my anxiety got so bad is because people say get outside of your comfort zone, but nobody ever tells you how far to get outside of your comfort zone. I was way, way, way too far. We went, uh, we were. We were going to a, a personal development event in Arizona, and we flew down to Florida to see one of our mentors. And then we're going to fly to Arizona with that mentor. And when we got down to Florida, we went to the gym. That's like a staple when we go on the road we go to the gym. So airport, straight to the gym and we're having this really good workout.

Kevin: 33:49

And I started to feel like my throat was getting tight and I was like, ah, maybe it's the pollen down here, maybe it's. Maybe I used to have asthma, so maybe that's bothering me. And we went back to the hotel and I had a panic attack and that was the first time I ever had a panic attack. I didn't know what it was, I didn't really know what anxiety even was at that point. And I remember calling my mom and saying I think I'm having an asthma attack and I don't know what to do. And she said you have to go to the hospital. I said I don't have insurance, I can't go to the hospital, I don't have any money and I don't have insurance I can't.

Kevin: 34:23

So Alan went to the store and got me Vicks vapor rub and I rubbed it under my nose so I could prove to myself that I was still capable of breathing. When he went out to the store I had another panic attack and I was laying on the bathroom floor in this hotel. And you want to talk about triggering. Last time I had this stuff, I was in a hotel too right, that's a theme and I'm just crawling around the bathroom floor and I had a moment where I was like I think I'm dying. Is this what's happening? Am I dying right now? I think I'm dying. Is this like? Is this what's happening? Am I dying right now?

Nico: 34:55

Luckily I didn't. Obviously I'm here.

Kevin: 34:57

Shout out Spoiler alert I didn't die. I'm still here. Alan got back from the store and then I took whatever I don't know what it was Benadryl or something and then I went to sleep. And then the next day we woke up and then we drove I mean, this is how, how much I was pushing it. Then we drove five hours down to south florida to interview one of our friends and I literally couldn't eat that day because I was afraid to swallow. I didn't eat, I just was suffering the whole day. Then we flew out to arizona and it was the same thing the whole time.

Kevin: 35:29

I felt like I had something stuck in my throat for like two weeks Come home and I literally spent the next couple weeks in bed because I thought I was sick. Then I went to. I went to the doctor. I went to a CVS minute clinic because I didn't have insurance and I was like I think it's like a hundred bucks versus going to the doctor. I don't, I don't know how much that's going to cost.

Kevin: 35:56

And the the nurse said have you ever thought of you maybe having anxiety? And I was like what is that? What's that about? What do you mean? And she's like well, it sounds like you've probably been having panic attacks, not asthma situations and I was like, oh my goodness, this makes so much sense, oh my goodness.

Kevin: 36:07

So yeah, I went so far outside of my comfort zone that my body was like, dude, you can't do this. You can't keep being so terrified of existing and then just going and doing it anyway because there is a point of diminishing returns that now, in retrospect, it's like, my goodness, I grew so, so, so much. You couldn't get me on a plane before then. I just I just went to scotland. I'm flying to toronto next week for an event, so that was huge. I met so many amazing people. I faced so many of my fears. So in a way, I in a way and I'll be very honest about this I was thinking of this recently where I thought to myself, if I didn't go on this journey the way I went on this journey, I probably wouldn't have anxiety at all. I'd probably completely, I probably would be completely unfazed at all by that. Imagine what that would be like.

Nico: 37:08

Yeah, yeah.

Kevin: 37:09

Yeah, and then it was like ah, whatever, I'd rather do this anyway. It is what it is Like. If that's what had to happen for me to get to where I am no harm, no foul I wouldn't go back and change anything. Now I can tell people not to do what I did, but I wouldn't do anything different because I think that's what had to happen for me to get to where I am today, and I have a tattoo on my arm that says never quit. This is a very dangerous thing. This is why identity is so dangerous. My belief is that I can take more of a beating than anybody else, but I also probably attract more beatings than anybody else in terms of life, beating me up and me suffering. So there's a piece of me that's like heck, yeah, kev, like strong work for getting through all that. But there's also that piece of me that says, well, we definitely could have done it differently than we did, but if we did, would we be the person we are today? That's a philosophical question.

Nico: 38:04

To my mind it is. It is a part of of who we are and and, like you said, I, I would, I mean either, I would not change anything in my past. Um, I'm a, I'm a humongous back to the future fan. Okay, star wars as well, as you see. But, um, but one of the one of the things that I always remember from from that movie is, uh, christopher lloyd, you know, doc brown, saying, if you put your mind to it, you can accomplish things. That I always remember from that movie is Christopher Lloyd, you know, doc Brown, saying, if you put your mind to it, you can accomplish anything.

Nico: 38:39

And a couple of years back, we have a kind of a Comic-Con thing going on here in close by in Ghent. It's called Facts, and he was there. It was right before the pandemic, I think, just right before that, and I was already from the moment I saw that movie. I have always wanted to thank him, uh, for that one sentence, and I got the opportunity right there and I was like, finally, I can sell. Tell somebody, thank you, who has guided me with a character in a movie, for, for you know, a big part of my life and it is, it is a driving force.

Nico: 39:17

Um, I don't have a tattooed, I have a. I have a buddha on my my right arm, uh, as a remembrance of my depression and my my anxiety attacks as well, and I know what you mean. I know exactly what you mean. It's not been so long since I had one, so I know what you mean, but what I? I'm joking about these things now, you know I. I laugh and I smile, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I know what you mean.

Nico: 39:42

Yeah, it's, it's, it's something that you just have to go, you get through it. You know it always passes by and I get these, uh, cold chills coming from from really the bottom of my, my back, all the way, I do the top of my head, and then it's like, oh, okay, I am, I am doing something, I'm doing something, I'm, I'm going through a change. I start thinking like this is good instead of oh, this is a panic attack, so it's, it's. I know exactly what's happening and I've learned to live with them in a certain way, and I have a lot of people that come to me who are striving to learn that same thing, and it's difficult to explain how you learn to live with these things unless you've actually gone through them several times and understood that you go through them. There's always, like you said earlier, light at the end of the tunnel. Kevin, it's very, very prevalent, and when you talk about fulfillment, is that also something that, when you have these moments, is that the driving force or is that the supporting force?

Kevin: 40:54

I would say it's probably the supporting force. I would say it's probably the the supporting force. It's very easy to lose sight of what's happening with the amount of things that are happening. It's not, um, when I'm very high emotionally or I'm very low emotionally, I reflect on the past to see how far we've come, because, transparently, I'm not a hundred percent certain where we're going. I don't really know. I didn't, I didn't anticipate what I have today. Yeah, never thought a million listens and ever thought 1700, never, never, never, never. A million dollar business. Never thought any of that, didn't think any of that was going to happen. So I don't really know where I'm going to be in five years. I have no clue. I do know where I was five years ago, though, and if I can look back and connect with that old, old version of kev and say, oh, my goodness, how much has changed. That kicks me right back into like the present. So I would say it's more supportive.

Kevin: 41:50

The thing that this has been one of the challenges. Some of the hardest days I have are also the most fulfilling, and that's the weird thing where today isn't a super crazy day, I think of like eight calls there are a lot of them are easy calls. I'm not gonna be when I get to go to bed tonight. I'm probably not gonna have that moment where I put my head down and say, wow, today was like the day, but there, it's not going to be like that every day. So that's what I'm learning. More now is my natural tendency is to look at my calendar and see a bunch of stuff and say, oh no, am I going to be able to get through today? Then when I get to the end of the night, it's like, wow, that was an awesome day. I'm trying to rewire that and relearn that and re-understand that busy, productive overwhelm is really good If it's fulfillment, if it's in the right direction. So, yeah, I would say it's.

Kevin: 42:49

It's probably more supportive where I get so much fulfillment in reflection yeah when I look back at there's a a business close to me that does what I used to do. They're in the weatherization company okay and I'll be.

Kevin: 43:09

Let's say I'm getting back from the gym at like nine in the morning. I used to go to the gym at five. Now I go at like eight in the morning. I used to go to the gym at five, now I go at like eight. I used to see these trucks headed out to the job site and I would be sitting at the red light looking and saying Kev, do not forget that that was you right now. You could be driving six hours to another state and you could be completely single. You wouldn't have your family, you wouldn't have your cats that you love so much, you wouldn't have your business, you wouldn't have the amazing community and you would be. You might be miserable again. Do not forget that. Do not ever take this for granted, because there are so many people out there that would kill to have what you have, and you were one of them, and don't you ever forget that. That is like the fulfilling part for me.

Nico: 43:53

Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful, because that's one of the things that kind of supports a lot of journey thinking instead of destination thinking. You know, I was just thinking about it. Just thinking about it, I heard a quote this morning about becoming better than the person you were the day before, but they described it completely differently. I think it was Tony Robbins who said it. This guy's got, you know, these quotes that you just it drops them and it's like, yeah, yeah, thank you, yeah, yeah, I know what you mean, but I think it was something just become better. The only person that you need to compare yourself to is the person that you were yesterday. That was the quote and I was again, like you said as well.

Nico: 44:43

Yeah, absolutely, kevin, I'm 100% with you of thinking of the past and being gratitude. Not having gratitude, but being gratitude. Where you end up today, I also have the enormous feeling of success and gratitude and fulfillment that I have every day because I've got a smoothly running business and I have a new business that I'm starting because I just want to, and I have a new business that I'm starting because I just want to. If I go back and I just say, big chair, sit back, I'm just going to do the job that I'm doing right now. I've got a beautiful freelance job. I got a lot of stuff going on. My team is amazing. I got support from my management. They allowed me to do what needs to be done and that's perfect for me. You know, give me chaos and I will make it structured. But just let me do my thing, and I don't do it by being, you know, an Excel sheet manager Not at all. I do it by being a people manager. I talk to people and so on, and it's amazing what I have been able to achieve there. And in that same way, I'm like you know, I can be of more impact outside of that company. So I would rather do something else, for instance, this podcast and then other things.

Nico: 46:00

So the gratitude has become such a driving force as well of saying, wow, we were there yesterday, now we're here today with this Tomorrow. I don't know. In all honesty, my agenda is full. I don't care If somebody cancels, oh too bad. Okay, somebody else will probably drop in that slot later on or in the same time. And that's something that I also would love to bring out into the world of seeing more people look at life that way in a flow in gratitude. Past is there. I learned from that and go further in that story. So, yeah, I understand what you mean. Really beautiful to see how you come from a story of stimulated success for yourself to a story of reality success. But it is not about that anymore. It is about the fulfillment and the drive that goes underneath and the impact that you make. To put it in short, you are of service to the world, which grants you the necessary fulfillment. Is that filled in in a certain way that resonates?

Kevin: 47:27

Yeah, I think one of the reasons I'm so fulfilled is because I'm growing and contributing towards something far greater than myself, and it's not about me, we. This was such an interesting moment for me recently, so on the same day which the odds of this, I don't know but on the same day we crossed a million listens and a million dollars earned in our business, and I didn't even want to do a post about it. I didn't, I didn't care. I'm grateful. I don't mean I didn't even want to do a post about it, I didn't care. I'm grateful. I don't mean I didn't care from lack of gratitude. I am so grateful and the fact that we've impacted that many people and we've created enough value in the world to get a million dollars from it awesome.

Kevin: 48:09

When I first started this, I thought I was going to. I couldn't even imagine getting here. Of course I'm going was going to. I couldn't even imagine getting here. Of course I'm going to get balloons and I'm going to get a cake and I might rent a giraffe If I can find one to have the celebration. It took me like two weeks, nico, before I even posted about it, cause it just didn't. I didn't need the significance, I didn't. I didn't even want the significance. Honestly, honestly, I it's weird Again, I know it might sound selfish, I don't mean it from that standpoint, but I knew people were going to comment and I was going to have to comment back. It was just like, honestly, I don't really need it right now. I'm good, it's not. It's not about that as much as it used to be. Do I still like significance and people saying nice things? Of course I do. Right, I'm human and it feels good. So, yes, do I need it as much as I used to? Definitely not. It's different now.

Kevin: 49:00

We have very specific goals. We're shooting for Daily, weekly, quarterly, yearly, decades, but those goals are all facilitating my growth and then all the growth is a byproduct of that, and then the goals become a byproduct of the growth and it becomes this beautiful thing. If I could sum it all up in one sentence. I was thinking of this before you and I chatted. It's very hard in a podcast episode to collapse X amount of years of growth into one conversation, because all people really hear are the results and you're doing a wonderful job of us talking about the growth behind it, which I'm eternally grateful for, but there's so much stuff that I don't even remember anymore. That probably a lesson I learned that changed the way I look at everything, and then that lesson evolved to something and then it shed the skin of the previous thing and now that thing is gone and I don't remember it.

Kevin: 49:59

That's your journey, too, whether you're watching or listening. Some of the best things you ever do, some of the best awarenesses, some of the best breakthroughs, some of the best understandings you're going to have about yourself, nobody else will ever hear about. But it doesn't mean they're not incredible and it doesn't mean that might not be facilitating the greatest change or great, greatest evolution you ever experienced. I'm blessed because people asked me about mine and what was it like when you went through this? You have your own unique version of that that nobody, maybe nobody, will ever ask you about. But I'm telling you that's the important stuff, that more than the next house, more than the next car or whatever it is, it's the internal stuff that matters the most. That's where this all started for me and that is the hill I will die on for sure.

Nico: 50:45

Thank you for that. Wow, it's a. It's beautiful to hear, to hear you say these things, because I think there's a lot of people out there who are struggling and trying to wade through all what's happening. We both grew up in the social media era and all those likeys and heartsies and all that. Yeah, whatever I told you earlier in the green room. So I cut off my whole Facebook, my previous network, and at that time my ego was striving for that one more like and so on, and indeed these days I'm just. I hope I have an impact on one person. That's where my mind is now and what you just said. I'm absolutely sure somebody must have heard something there that changes their lives, and that's the whole idea of this episode and this podcast. Kevin, you are an amazing human being. Thank you, human being, thank you, and I want to thank you from the depths of my heart for taking the time to join us today and bringing your story. What else would you like people to do today, either for you or for themselves, that might change the future?

Kevin: 52:12

I don't want you to do anything for me. I want you to do something for you Because when I leave here today, you may never hear from me again, but you will be with you forever. Reach out to someone you haven't talked to in a while and check in on them. Simple, you never know, you never know.

Kevin: 52:28

One of the best things I ever did was I started telling my friends I love them, and that was yeah. I remember saying like, hey, man, I love you, I love you. Like, bring it in, let's, let's hug it out. I was the first person in my friend group to do that, and it was like I want my friends to be closer, I want to be closer to you, and I think that's one way for me to do it. It's vulnerable, for sure, especially in a room full of bodybuilders, to say I love you, brother, but tell someone you love them and really mean it, mean it whatever that means to you, lean into it. That will it take courage, sure, but I do think the things that take the courage are also the things that facilitate the growth. So that would be my, my challenge for everyone, including that's a beautiful message.

Kevin: 53:13

I appreciate it, Nico. I love you.

Nico: 53:15

I love you too, kevin. Really, this has been a wonderful conversation. I appreciate it so many alignments. I feel the energy in the room right now, even if it's virtual. So yeah, I think we're going to keep in touch.

Kevin: 53:32

I hope so. I'd love to come back in the future. Anytime, I'm happy to talk, obviously.

Nico: 53:36

I like talking deep. Yes, indeed Cool. Thank you very much for your time, kevin. Of course, thank you very much, listeners, for joining us in this amazingly beautiful podcast episode. I hope you take literally, you take to heart what Kevin just said and take that challenge as something that you want to do today, because the only time to start is now. So, yeah, thank you very much for listening to the Everlasting Podcast. Talk to you soon, everybody. Bye-bye.