The Harvard Business School MBA Application

In this conversation, Harold Simansky, Jessica Shklar, and Devi Vallabhaneni discuss their experiences at Harvard Business School and delve into the changes in the Harvard Business School application process, particularly the new essay questions. They provide insights into how to approach the essays and highlight the importance of showcasing leadership and personal growth. They emphasize the need to connect different aspects of one's story and demonstrate good judgment in decision-making. Overall, the conversation offers valuable advice for prospective applicants to Harvard Business School. The conversation explores the themes of growth mindset, learning from mistakes, and the importance of showcasing personal growth in the HBS application. It emphasizes the need to demonstrate a willingness to learn and evolve, rather than focusing on static perfection. It suggests that HBS is looking for individuals who have a track record of taking initiative and making an impact. The conversation concludes with practical tips on brainstorming and planning the essays, as well as the significance of a strong resume.

Takeaways

• The Harvard Business School application process has undergone changes, including the introduction of new essay questions.
• The new essay questions focus on business-mindedness, leadership, and growth orientation, and require applicants to demonstrate their mindset rather than just skills and activities.
• Applicants should carefully consider the criteria provided by HBS and ensure that their essays, resume, and recommendations align with these criteria.
• Leadership is a key aspect that HBS looks for in applicants, and it can be demonstrated through various experiences, such as managing teams, taking initiative, and showing good judgment in decision-making.
• Applicants should connect different aspects of their story and highlight personal growth and the impact they plan to have on businesses, organizations, and communities.
• The HBS application should be viewed as a portfolio, with the essays complementing other components such as the resume and recommendations.
• Prospective applicants should take the time to understand HBS and why they want to attend, as this knowledge can be valuable in the interview and post-interview reflection. Demonstrate a growth mindset and a willingness to learn and evolve in the HBS application.
• Focus on personal growth and learning from mistakes rather than presenting static perfection.
• Max out your life and create opportunities for yourself to stand out in the application process.
• Showcase your initiative, problem-solving skills, and impact in your essays.
• Brainstorm and plan your essays carefully, ensuring that each essay presents a unique aspect of your profile.
• Pay attention to your resume, as it may be the only document some interviewers see.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to the mbaMission podcast
• 0:38 Jessica and Devi intro
• 4:28 Changes to the HBS application
• 5:06 Skills & activities vs. mindsets
• 10:30 The new HBS essay questions - HBS admissions criteria 1: Business-Minded
• 16:37 Viewing your application as a portfolio
• 18:22 HBS admissions criteria 2: Leadership-focused
• 22:35 HBS admissions criteria 3: Growth-oriented
• 28:40 What is the admissions committee looking for?
• 30:58 Successful HBS candidates: Maxing out your life & creating opportunities
• 34:08 Preparing your essays strategically: Think, Plan, Write
• 38:57 Approaching your application holistically

Transcript

Harold Simansky (00:10)

Hi, I'm Harold Simansky, host of the mbaMission podcast. I'm here today with two of my colleagues, both executive directors at our firm and Harvard Business School graduates. It's Jessica Shklar and Devi Vallabhaneni. Hi Devi and Jessica.

Jessica Shklar (00:26)

Hi, thanks so much.

Devi Vallabhaneni (00:27)

Hi Jessica.

Harold Simansky (00:29)

Hey, let's begin by both of you introducing yourselves. You've both been at mbaMission for a bit now, as well as Harvard Business School graduates. Yeah, so tell me your stories a little bit.

Jessica Shklar (00:39)

Sure, so I went to Harvard undergrad and really loved it. And then I moved out to LA, I'm from Boston, moved out to LA. And while I was in LA, I was working for a college that was a university, I entered a graduate school, five graduate programs, including an MBA and a college. And it was not well known. It was really not well known. There were 90 undergraduates in all four years. So my job was not about rejecting or accepting, my job was about publicizing.

So I spent two years traveling around the country running workshops on how do you write application essays and how do you clarify your values in choosing a school. And that gave me really good training. So when I decided I should go to business school, I applied to five places, Harvard, Stanford, Kellogg, Yale, and UCLA. I got into all five, which is not a flex. I really just say that because I think it gives me some credibility that I've been through that. Went to Harvard for business school, worked in financial services when I

Finally, when I was laid off eventually, years later, I was the Senior Vice President of Quality at JPMorganChase in the Chase Home Finance Division. And that's when I joined mbaMission. So that's 15 years now. I'd never really moved far away from applications, and I just love it. I love helping people tell their story. I was an anthropology major. I love that exploration of who people are, what makes them tick. And so I've been here now 16 years, and it's been the best.

Harold Simansky (02:05)

Thank you, Jessica. And how about you, Devi? What's your origin story?

Devi Vallabhaneni (02:10)

Sure, absolutely. I think I always knew I wanted to go into business. I love business. I was just telling a friend the other day that in high school, I read the Leigh Iacocca biography and how he turned around Chrysler. And then same thing in like high school. There was a really popular book at that point, What They Don't Teach You at Harvard Business School. And so I knew business was the place that I would end up. So majored in accounting at University of Illinois in finance. I have my CPA.

Harold Simansky (02:22)

Yes.

Devi Vallabhaneni (02:40)

you know, the quant track. And, and obviously I love quant and I love all of that, but it's, I, so then I went applying to business school and you know, know, was, I did everything you're not supposed to do. Applied in the third round and applied, literally I wrote my application in a weekend. And, and at that point, you know, FedEx FedEx-ed it you know, long story short, I got in and it was the, you know, best place for it.

And, you know, did I was the person that if you had gone on campus to do a tour, I would have been the person you would have seen. So that's when, you know, that's when the spark kind of came up like this is the dream for so many people. And it starts when they understand what HBS is about. And so that was 1997. And so I've been in admissions, you know, peripherally since there and then wholeheartedly, I would say over the last 15 years.

And so for several years I was the, you know, what John Byrne calls the gatekeeper in terms of the last person they'd see before yes or no. And at that point it would be so frustrating when you'd see good people do things that they just weren't aware of. And so what I am so grateful now to be at mbaMission is I can help them craft their story and how they think about themselves and their own path and their own goals. So they meet that moment.

And that's what I love about my time at mbaMission, because we are, you know, it's to me, it's both business. I could still speak business every day and, and about people and their lives. And so that's why this is so meaningful to me.

Jessica Shklar (04:14)

How long were you on the HBS admissions committee?

Devi Vallabhaneni (04:17)

So when I was alumni interviewer, that was about three years in the early 2000s, and then they changed their whole setup, and then for three years in the current system.

Harold Simansky (04:28)

That's great. Devi, this is a great segue here because we're going to talk about change a little bit. And one of the things that has really changed this past year is the Harvard Business School application. In fact, not only now are there three essays instead of what used to be one long essay, but even when they talk about what they are looking for, they give us three different things. This year, they're looking for business -minded, leadership -focused, and growth -oriented applicants.

Well, previously they were looking for an aptitude for analytics, being an engaged citizen and the habit of leadership. So Jessica, let's turn to you. What's changed? What are you looking about? What is this all about? I'm confused.

Jessica Shklar (05:10)

No, it's really interesting when you think about change, because as you said, the last six years they were asking this very open ended, what more? We've seen your recommendations, we've seen your resumes, what more do you want us to know? Going back even earlier than that though, for years, I would say my first eight or ten years, they were asking very structured questions. Three accomplishments, three setbacks, what are your career goals? Like very, very focused one. And so it really has been an evolution. I know we're going to get into the questions

in a bit later. So let's talk a little bit about the criteria. I should note also that HBS has a new admissions director who joined in the middle of round one last year. So it's nice that she's now putting her stamp on this. And I think it's a really good timing to say she watched the whole process go and now she's making it her own. Obviously not independently, but use that as an opportunity for the school to step back and say, hey, is this still reflecting who we are?

And I think to me the biggest change in the criteria is that the analytical aptitude, habit of leadership and engaged community citizenship were skill and activity based. You had analytical aptitude, that is a skill. A habit of leadership, that's an activity. Can we see that you have been involved? Where's the, what they're looking for today being business minded,

leadership focused and growth oriented is about mindset rather than about activities or skills. And I think that's exciting because it opens up applicants to writing much more personally about who they are. It also puts a lot more pressure on the rest of the application, right? It's because analytical aptitude was never part of the essays, but someone might have been tempted to say, I need to show that in my essays. But now there's just not room, but

You know you're submitting your transcript and you know you're submitting your GMAT score and you know you're filling out the application. So it's going to put more pressure on the resume, the application and the recommendations to do some, offer some more of that story that isn't necessarily told in the essay questions. But I think the mind shifts, the shift from skills and activities to mindset says a lot. I think it really promotes that HBS is looking for

Harold Simansky (07:24)

That was.

Jessica Shklar (07:35)

not for one thing, but for individual stories.

Harold Simansky (07:39)

I want to talk about the essays in particular, but I'll just say seeing it from my side, which is I both loved and hated the HBS essay. I'll tell you why. You could write a great essay. It could be very existential. All of us, we all share our essays with each other. We each have fun, too. They were hard, though. Last year's essays were hard, and the previous year's essays were hard.Just feel a little bit more boring to me. Devi, why don't you, maybe I'm not thinking of something. Devi, how are you thinking about essays?

Devi Vallabhaneni (08:13)

Well, I'll share with how I used to and then how I'm going to. How about that? So before, I really did take it as what else? And so the resume had to tell your entire business history, right? The resume is historical. It's not forward -looking. But you can write it vis -a -vis your goals. Your recommendations, they play the same role in terms of how you did on the job, who you are in the workplace. It shows your character. It shows your analytical abilities. It shows kind of how you

Harold Simansky (08:18)

Yep.

Devi Vallabhaneni (08:43)

dealt with setbacks. The recommendations provide so much insight and they will still. The essay before, it allowed people to show their character. It allowed people to show some origin story. It allowed them to connect different dots that the other parts may not be able to. And that is the one thing I fear is going to be lost. And so therefore you have to be much more proactive in connecting

dots in a shorter way, in a more brief manner in these three essays. And so I still want people to think what else, because I think that allows you to take your accomplishments or your activities or even parts of you further. So I think you can still take that mindset, but then vis -a -vis three categories, business, leadership, and curiosity. So if you still view it as what else,

You still need a strong resume. You still need strong everything else, like what Jessica said. But now the way you tell your story is just more brief. So instead of starting with some scene where, in terms of setting up the stage, right. So it might be less storytelling and more in terms of get to the point because you have a lot to pack in.

Harold Simansky (09:54)

starting with Timothy.

Jessica Shklar (10:03)

And I think the other piece with that is that the questions each have so many sub -questions. There's not one question that's just a deep dive. Even the one that's the simplest, which is the growth one, the growth rate, describe a time that you showed curiosity. And then someone remind me how it.

Devi Vallabhaneni (10:08)

Correct.

Harold Simansky (10:23)

Yeah, I have them right here. So

Why don't I just read the essay questions? And the first essay question is the business minded essay.

Please reflect on how your experiences have influenced your career choices and aspirations and the impact you will have on the businesses, organizations, and communities you plan to serve. We'll take this one at a time, but let me at least read all of them now. Leadership -focused essay, what experiences have shaped who you are, how you invest in others, and what kind of leader you want to become. 250 words and the growth -oriented essay, curiosity can be seen in many ways. Please share an example of how you have demonstrated

curiosity and how that has influenced your growth up to 250. So Jessica, to get back to your point, these are three essays all with multiple parts to them. So yeah.

Jessica Shklar (11:15)

And I would make a note also for those listeners, if you look at the essay page on the HBS site and then look over on the left where they sort of list everything, there's a section that says, what are we looking for? They list the criteria there and they're very exclusive. They have a second paragraph that says, in the application we will be looking for. So if you look at the business -minded question, after describing what they mean by business -minded, they say,

We will look for evidence of your interpersonal skills, quantitative abilities, and the ways in which you plan to create impact through business. So one of the...

Harold Simansky (11:52)

Right and this everyone is everyone who's listening this is on the MBA HBS admissions page who we are looking for

Jessica Shklar (12:02)

And so what I'm advising my clients to do is take the essay question, put it on a sheet of paper for us, a document, and then go to that other page that says, what are we looking for? And take that line that says in your application, put that right underneath the question. Now, as you write the essay, then the step two is highlight the key elements of the question. So for example, in the business -minded question,

please reflect on how you're, I would highlight your experiences and then have influenced your career choices. That's looking backwards. How have your experiences influenced you looking backwards and aspirations. I'd highlight aspirations, your career experiences that you're looking forward and the impact you would have. So I would highlight experiences, career choices, aspirations and impact. And then under what are we looking for? I would highlight, we will look for evidence of your interpersonal skills, quantitative abilities,

and the ways in which you plan to create impact. This is very tactical. What it means is as you write your essays, you have a very visual cross check for yourself. Where you're like, did I discuss impact? Did I discuss aspirations? And I do this with all multi -part essays, but these Harvard ones are so complicated and in such short space that it's really easy to forget one of them. And I think that maybe Devi can speak to how questions are chosen. I don't know if you were privy to that, but.

Devi Vallabhaneni (13:15)

Mm -hmm.

Jessica Shklar (13:32)

Our assumption is that schools choose these questions very carefully. And this year, the HBS questions came out seven weeks later than they did last year. That means to me that they spent a lot of time planning these essays, and every word matters to them.

Harold Simansky (13:46)

Can I just throw in and Devi, I really want to get your reactions here, but can I just throw in how we read the process? We were told something like June 1st, it was reported in Poets&Quants that the essay would not be changing. And Poets&Quants is usually a great source for these things. John Byrne has great relationships. The essays would not be changing. What was it? Was it the next day? Three days later? And basically, was it that day? That day it's like,

Devi Vallabhaneni (14:12)

That day, that day, that day. Was that day? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was all within 24 hours.

Harold Simansky (14:15)

Hang on, we're not saying that the essays will not be moving. So Devi, what do you take from that? And just, you know Harvard Business School, you know the ins and outs. What do you take from something like that?

Devi Vallabhaneni (14:28)

So looking at the essay questions now and then probably divining backwards in terms of what happened, because so the way I look at the essay questions is there's a little bit for everybody to show themselves, right? In terms of if you're gonna change careers in the business essay, then what experiences have led you to that? So I'm sure career changers are going to view it differently. If it's the people who have some big audacious,

you know, entrepreneurial idea or some big audacious vision for themselves, then it's probably more on how does this impact on the impact and the future side. So I think there's they provided a lot of room for interpretation to house all the reasons that somebody goes to HBS. You know what I mean in terms of so I think there you can calibrate it differently based on your individual story.

Jessica Shklar (15:21)

Devi, you showed the reasons people would go to HBS. Do you anticipate talking about why HBS in these essays? Yeah. I think there is. And also remember that there is another interview. If you get an interview, there's the post -interview reflection due 24 hours later. And that's where I encourage people to talk about why HBS, because then they've usually used conversation.

Devi Vallabhaneni (15:27)

No, no, not at all.

No, because it all say the same.

Mm -hmm. And I have absolutely, you can absolutely put that in, especially if your interview went decent, right, in terms of like to really reinforce why you like to be there. I also think there you should still prepare for it if you get the interview, because it can come up in different ways. So it's one of those things of do you need it for the essays? No. But do you need it to get in? Yes, probably. Because and it's not just, I like the case method, but specifically why and in your case in terms of like

what specifically at HBS, especially if you have this big audacious career vision and then you're like, I don't know how HBS is going to help with that. That would be a little weird to not know, right? And so I'm glad there was not the 250 word essay, why HBS or something, because that would be 10 ,000 essays of pretty much saying the same thing.

Harold Simansky (16:35)

Yeah, no, that makes sense.

Jessica Shklar (16:36)

And then I also want to highlight that when we think about looking at the essays overall or the application as a portfolio, right? So it's not just the essays, but the essays with the resume, with the recommendations, is a whole portfolio. The application itself has some short answer questions. The longest of those is still really short, but it's a 500 character, spaces count, 500 character on what are your career goals. So if you put that one in parallel with the

Devi Vallabhaneni (16:47)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Business one.

Jessica Shklar (17:05)

business minded essay, those two, I would work on those together. So, and I think of them differently as the, and I want to hear if you agree with this, that the business one, the, sorry, the business minded essay is almost aspirational. It's looking back, it's looking forward, but it's what do I want to accomplish in the world? The short answer, what are your career goals is short term goal, title, company, longterm goal. It's much more tactical. So you're going to be the same person.

Devi Vallabhaneni (17:10)

Agreed.

Harold Simansky (17:20)

you

Devi Vallabhaneni (17:29)

Mm -hmm.

Correct.

Jessica Shklar (17:35)

We often say you should teach them more about you with each essay. Well, not really. You can't have a different goal between those two essays or essay and answer, but they are different. You describe them differently in those two places.

Devi Vallabhaneni (17:47)

Yeah, if we use healthcare for an example, then you can say, you know, I want to have an operational role in healthcare post, you know, business school, and then I would like to be a COO of a hospital system to reduce waste or to, you know, so that could be like the more tactical side. But in terms of the origin story for why healthcare, the, you know, maybe include one of your biggest impact that you had on healthcare that allowed you to say, you know, this is really for me and this is how, you know, the future of healthcare. So I think

That's how you can use the essay.

Harold Simansky (18:20)

No, that makes sense. Frequently, when people think about HBS, they think about leadership, leadership, leadership, a general management education, a CEO education. Devi, how do you think about leadership, particularly when you're involved in this situation, when somebody comes to you and, hey, nothing's really screaming out leaders? I mean, what do you do with that?

Jessica Shklar (18:20)

I agree.

Devi Vallabhaneni (18:43)

So I will first talk about in terms of how I view leadership vis -a -vis HBS. So I think of it as showing good judgment. Because at the end of the day, the case method is all about judgment, making decisions as a general manager, whether you're at a Fortune 500 or at a 10 -person startup, it's about how you make decisions. And the case study is all about decision -making and refining your judgment.

That's one part of leadership. But we can see that through a lot of the person's resume and recommendations. And so we can see judgment in so many different ways, at least that. In terms of other parts of the more conventional parts of leadership are maybe managing teams, maybe managing people, projects, budgets, right? In terms of the management of things. But even it's not just management, it's doing above and beyond what you're expected to do. And so that's another form of leadership.

You know, so, and then another one could be, well, you're originating things like, you know, or taking community involvement, doing more. and so that's one thing there's so many different flavors of leadership. The leadership essay gives a lot of freedom to interpret. What is your best story for leadership? Do you know what I mean? It could be for some people, it could be a really difficult conversation they had to have with their boss or with the client.

Sometimes it could be where they went above and beyond to fight for something. Sometimes it could be an initiative that they started. It's still the second leadership question is as open -ended for a reason because leadership is that wide for interpretation. So I would think of it as what are your greatest hits in leadership and then pare it back to be able to say, maybe a different angle of a story that's

was covered in your recommendation. Maybe it's your personal viewpoint of what you did. And so that's what I'm saying in terms of, it's the same thing. There isn't just a couple of definitions of leadership and that gives that freedom to the candidate to really show that interpretation.

Jessica Shklar (20:54)

One of the classic interview questions we see is, you know, who's a leader you admire? And so I always think about that from a leadership perspective, because people often say, well, you know, Bill Gates. OK, so let's take Bill Gates. What do people admire about him as a leader? It's not monolithic. Some people will admire that he's this incredible risk taker. Some people will admire that he's a philanthropist. Some people will admire that he has faced obstacles and overcome them. Some people will admire the personal growth from being

sort of a nerdy guy in his basement to a family man to not so much a family man. This has been a a of evolution. He's probably an amazing negotiator. He probably has this really interesting international. There are so many aspects of leadership and even in one person. So it's not, leadership does not have one definition. And I think to Debbie's Devi's you really have to figure out what is your leadership and what does that word mean to you? So when we see someone

Devi Vallabhaneni (21:25)

Mm -hmm.

Harold Simansky (21:27)

Thank you.

Devi Vallabhaneni (21:32)

I'm sure he's very shrewd. Yeah.

Jessica Shklar (21:49)

who doesn't necessarily have a big title or hasn't managed teams or hasn't promoted anyone, our job as consultants is to figure out what makes them special, what makes them shine. Maybe it's not an external metric of a title, but maybe it's a very quiet way that they always make sure everyone in the room has their opinion heard. Maybe it's they're the one who makes sure that new people

Devi Vallabhaneni (22:01)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Jessica Shklar (22:14)

have the thorough orientation or they're the one who's comfortable asking the questions that everyone else is scared to ask. There is leadership in everyone and our job is to find.

Harold Simansky (22:24)

know that that certainly makes sense. And I'll tell you, that is something if we honestly if we think with our clients, we talk about our clients, we talk about all these things, you're right, things bubble up. The one thing that I think the question in some ways I'm almost more concerned about or just sort of don't know where to go with it is this notion of growth oriented. Aren't we all growth oriented? Is it is it actually quite happening? Is it almost like something that yes is out there? It's obvious. Sure, I've grown, I've become, you know,

Physically, I've gone to CrossFit. I started reading all the great books. I actually had once, I had a CrossFit trainer as a client and we did a good job with that. But seriously, growth mindset, growth orientation, 250 words. It's like, what are we talking about here actually?

Devi Vallabhaneni (22:59)

You

Jessica Shklar (23:01)

I really hope you're not reading an essay about CrossFit.

Can I jump in on this? I'm really passionate about this. And I think it's to me, it's always been special about Harvard, especially with the last question, is I feel like they have been pretty clear that they don't expect perfection. They expect growth. And so to me, growth is about learning from your mistakes, being willing to say, I didn't do this well and now I've changed.

Harold Simansky (23:26)

me.

Jessica Shklar (23:49)

How that fits with curiosity, I'm still exploring, because that's the specific definition they're giving to growth. But I'm curious, Devi, if you also agree with me that one thing that HBS has encouraged with its old essay and with its emphasis on growth is that they're not expecting static perfection. They know that people have come from someplace and they are going someplace. And if we look back on ourselves, the moments that we've learned the most, they're often from failures and from mistakes.

Devi Vallabhaneni (24:08)

gonna

Jessica Shklar (24:18)

People who get stuck in those don't grow, and people who learn from them do grow.

Devi Vallabhaneni (24:23)

I absolutely agree. And you can see that a lot through the interview. So if you haven't done the work about understanding mistakes or how you've over or setbacks or failures, the term that no one wants to prepare for, a lot of it is, so what did you learn from this? How did you grow from it? How did that affect you to who you are today? So I think that thought process still holds true here. And so that could be part of it and then move into how did you use that

as fuel to be curious about something or to invest in something. It could be in yourself, it could be in an idea, it could be in something else, it could be in an organization, it could be in a product, right? In terms of, and so it is that using, it could be using a setback as fuel. It could be something that you are also sincerely passionate about, right? I had a client last year who in his free time would review affordable housing markets all around the country.

I could, this year, if he was writing this essay, I could see him really, you know, talking, being, nerding out about that particular topic and why that means so much to him and therefore seeing its potential and really coming up with, you know, and showing that side of not just interest, but the business side, but the people side, right? In terms of there's so many different sides to an idea. I could see him using that essay to show curiosity about an idea.

Harold Simansky (25:51)

That's really interesting. That's very, very helpful. Now, is growth something that always has to be personal? Maybe I should say, how personal does it have to be?

Jessica Shklar (26:04)

I just gave a presentation on this topic on the HBS essays about an hour ago I finished and someone asked a question about trauma. How do you write about trauma in these essays? And so I've been thinking about that over the last hour, hour and a half. And to me, I think trauma has, can have a place if it shaped you. But the essay is about the shaping, not about the trauma. So you don't.

You can mention, you have to mention whatever that trauma was, but it's a springboard for the rest of the essay. It's not, the mistake I would see is people who spend 90 % of the essay describing how awful this experience was and then talking about how they grew from it. It should be the reverse. You almost, I wouldn't say downplay the trauma, but you give the facts of the trauma and then have the emotion in the recovery, the triumph, the...

the overcoming of it rather than the situation itself. And I've seen essays about horrible traumas and usually been fantastic focused on the growth.

Harold Simansky (27:07)

Yeah. Right. I'll tell you, Jessica, I'm going to agree with you because it's also top of mind for me. Yesterday, as you know, we do a lot of ding reviews. We look at people who did not get accepted to certain places. And I read a really excellent essay yesterday from a woman from Ukraine. And she actually got her experiences. And I'm going to say it to you. I did not say it to her in quite the same way, which is I read sometimes essays like this and I frequently end up with, so what?

I don't need to be cold or callous here. One of those things where I've just read a biography, but I don't know what to do with it. So how has that changed you? What has that meant for you?

Devi Vallabhaneni (27:38)

You got it.

Jessica Shklar (27:47)

Yeah, and I often push people to give me that the what and the so what. It's to give me the facts, but don't stop with the facts. So what, why do I care? Why is this relevant? And it's hard when you're writing about trauma, it's so easy to stay caught in that emotion, but that's not the place for this essay. That's not what this essay is about.

Devi Vallabhaneni (27:52)

Me too.

Correct, it's not a pity party essay. And the any whiff of a pity party, no way. Not appropriate. And so I think you'd have to gauge your emotional wherewithal. If you are tempted to write about the trauma and not about the growth, maybe you need to pick another topic. Because there's plenty of other ways to interpret this question. But if you have gone on the other side of trauma and have now seen, you know, in terms of how you've changed,

you're probably ready to write a very authentic essay.

Harold Simansky (28:40)

You know, just to circle back a little bit here, and again, Devi, maybe you talk with us. What is the overall message? If we think about three essays needing to fit together, needing to be something mosaic, what picture is Harvard Business School looking for by the time they put all these pieces together?

Devi Vallabhaneni (29:00)

I think it's the same. It's the same picture as before, right? In terms of they may just find it in different places on the application. And the reason I say that is the case study is still the same. The way the classes are run are still the same. Your goals are probably still the same. You're probably going to still admit the same type of profile of who the type of person is going to be successful in that environment. So if the end result hasn't changed, the way they review applications

probably hasn't changed. I think they just want different call outs of different parts of somebody's background to like, it's like the executive summary version of you versus the narrative biography version of you. You know what I mean? So I think of it as what are your greatest hits and let's make sure we really capture them versus the story that goes into it and then all of that. So yes, sorry.

Harold Simansky (29:48)

Okay.

Jessica Shklar (29:49)

So I think that's a good idea.

What Devi said about they're still looking for the same, just because the criteria is no longer analytical aptitude doesn't mean they're not looking for analytical aptitude. Just because criteria is not habit of leadership doesn't mean they don't want leaders. It's just they're phrasing it in a different way, moving the mindset from skills, but they're still gonna be looking for those same criteria, same skills, type of people.

Devi Vallabhaneni (30:03)

Exactly.

I'm sick. That's exactly right.

Harold Simansky (30:17)

That makes sense.

Devi Vallabhaneni (30:18)

It's the same program that has been around for over 100 years. So the program, the experience, the classroom experience, the section experience, the case study, the case analysis, nothing has changed. The skills that you need to be successful are the same last year as this year for next year. It's just how you put your story together. That's the only thing that's changed. And also leadership, same thing. You had leeway before of what leadership stories you're going to share in your essay or.

maybe not even you're conscious of it, but you can read between the lines, right? A trained reader is going to be able to read between the lines before and now.

Harold Simansky (30:56)

know that makes sense. I'll tell you as one mbaMission consultant here, two others who then lead to five of us, 25 of us. The one thing about what we've been really amazed with and this has been a surprise for me at some of the top schools you see an awful lot of very different types of people being accepted. I mean you just do. I think it's listed on the personal perspective. Devi

Harvard Business School graduate, Jessica Harvard Business School graduate, Julie-Anne Harvard Business School graduate. you guys are different. You're all different people. You all have different strengths. All of that said is we pull it up 50 ,000 feet. So what does Harvard Business School accept to look like if there is one thing that they look like or two things or five things? Particularly, you two have worked with, again, dozens with good success. What's that through line? Is there a through line?

Devi Vallabhaneni (31:50)

Yeah, so this is what I tell consults. And I use this language a lot in my consults. But I don't say it specifically for HBS, but just in terms of as a compelling MBA applicant, I think it's just more extreme for HBS. I think you have to be able to max out your life. I think in terms of when you max out your life, you are going for it in different parts, right? Some people it might be work, some people it might be what their passion project, it could be entrepreneurial.

It could be that they want to cure cancer. It could be that they want to build affordable housing. Something in you is motivating you to max out every single part of your life. And I can tell when people don't. And usually in the last 20 years, you see enough patterns of people maxing out their lives in different parts of their life. And those are usually the people that get into HBS at higher rates than don't.

So that's my personal.

Jessica Shklar (32:48)

I've heard it all.

Harold Simansky (32:51)

No, that's great. I haven't heard that before. That's great.

Jessica Shklar (32:51)

I've heard our CEO of mbaMission, Jeremy Shinewald say that the people who get into Wharton and Duke and Columbia and Booth and all these fantastic schools, they're the ones who, when they're given an opportunity, they knock it out of the park. The people who get into Harvard, Stanford, and I argue MIT as well, they're the ones who create those opportunities and then knock it out of the park. So it's that.

extra step of so maxing out your life absolutely I love that expression I'm going to use that now but then it's not just maxing it out for those top -top schools it's that one extra step it's maxing it and then creating the max you know some really showing initiative that doesn't mean you have to have been promoted six times it means you saw a problem and you fixed it you saw someone needed help and you stepped in you saw a place where courage was needed and you had the courage it's just

Devi Vallabhaneni (33:34)

Hmm?

Jessica Shklar (33:50)

business schools are agnostic about what the activity, what the job is. They're not agnostic about the personal characteristics.

Devi Vallabhaneni (33:56)

Correct. Absolutely.

That's exactly right.

Harold Simansky (34:02)

great then. That's great. And just sort of the last word here. I am a candidate. I am looking at the HBS application for the first time. Devi, how should I think about this?

Devi Vallabhaneni (34:18)

I would still focus on everything else and I would still do the same thing as we did before in terms of the what else factor. And the reason is they're still trained that way. They're still going to read it as, you know, in terms of if you're repeating the same story by places in your application, probably not using, you know, thinking about it the right way. So you still have to be smart in terms of the what else, but I think you can use it to, it's like what else then I would say, give me your greatest hits of like, what's your business impact?

And then, and for some people, you know, if you, if their whole application and their whole experiences and communities about healthcare, do I need to know the origin story of that? Probably not. Instead, I would probably focus more on certain impact that they created and then move it to their vision, right? The future. And so that's what I'm saying. So I think it would be depending on the overall story. If somebody's a career changer,

I would probably spend more on what were the two or three influences that helped them make their, that went into making their career change.

Jessica Shklar (35:23)

and on a very practical level, I would lay out the essay questions and then brainstorm. We can download our free brainstorming document from our website or any other platform and list what are all the possibilities of answers for question one. What are all the possibilities of answers for question two? What are all the possibilities of answers for question three? Now, you can't tell the same story in two different places. And it's not just about not telling the same story. You can't tell the same story even if they took place in different places.

Harold Simansky (35:23)

That makes sense.

Devi Vallabhaneni (35:30)

Exactly.

That's right.

Jessica Shklar (35:52)

tell a story in the career essay about how you are an amazing negotiator and problem solver, don't show that in a community service, in a community project on essay two. Don't show that you're a great negotiator, you've already proven that. So you want to narrow the essays down by first, brain dump all the possibilities. And then literally, I sometimes will lay them out on a piece of paper in front of me and I will circle, okay, these are my three possibilities here.

Devi Vallabhaneni (36:00)

Sure.

Same.

Jessica Shklar (36:17)

Here, I can't use that one here, moving on, wait, no, what is you there? And it's, you really have to look at these essays as a portfolio. If you just dive into writing, you'll be running short on ideas for the second and the third. You have to plan before you write. Think, plan, write. Writing comes last.

Devi Vallabhaneni (36:24)

I absolutely agree.

That's exactly right.

Harold Simansky (36:33)

That makes sense.

There we go. Right, right. Right.

Devi Vallabhaneni (36:38)

Yeah, writing is absolutely last. I think for the leadership, I think the most tricky one will be the leadership one. And the reason is in terms of, because of the, again, because of the three -part question inside, I don't want people to spend most of the time, what kind of leader do you want to be? Like, I'm a leader that invests in people. Well, you just answered the question, you just used what was in the question. I think here you have to be really compelling to either talk about your...

I don't want to say about your leadership style. I'd rather see the stories in which you are challenged, which led to your style. Do you know what I mean in terms of so that's that's I think that's going to be the trickiest one.

Jessica Shklar (37:17)

Can I ask a question about the leadership essay? I know we're a little bit out of cycle here, but I've been struggling with this one as I've started brainstorming it, because I've brainstormed a couple of times, and I'm just calling up the exact language here. So what experience has shaped who you are, how you invest in others, and what kind of leader do you want to become? I'm finding that as I work with clients on this, we're also spending time talking about what kind of leader am I already? Because I don't think you know.

Devi Vallabhaneni (37:44)

Yes.

Jessica Shklar (37:45)

different from what kind of leader you want to become. I think it's a continuum.

Devi Vallabhaneni (37:48)

I absolutely agree. I absolutely agree. I think that's a better way to anchor on the past in this because in this case, past becomes future. But that's what I'm saying. If you spend all the time on what you think your future leadership style is, I think you've kind of lost.

Jessica Shklar (38:04)

Okay, because it's hypothetical. I want to ground in what I'm doing already as the foundation for what I will do in the future.

Devi Vallabhaneni (38:07)

Mm -hmm.

That's exactly right. And also you're going to business school to refine your leadership. So how do you know what kind of leader you're going to be today? And that's wasted word count, right? The practicality of it is don't focus on the future. This is about what has shaped you as a leader, maybe, right? In terms of, or even, you know, I hope a lot of people will use it to show the challenges that they faced and that how it, what stories have really.

Harold Simansky (38:17)

Thank you.

Devi Vallabhaneni (38:36)

challenge them as a leader, therefore informing their leadership style, right? Then I learned something about them.

Harold Simansky (38:43)

No that that makes sense. And I also tell my clients all the time it's one of the reasons you go to business school is to try out different leadership styles and to sort of figure out okay which one works for you which one doesn't. And with that in mind just as we're coming to the end here any last words Devi Jessica?

Jessica Shklar (39:01)

I think probably the takeaway point is you have very little space in the essays, so you really have to make every word count and recognize that it is just part of how they're going to learn about you. And it's easy to spend all your time on the essays, but it's so important to look at the application where you have a ton of tiny little short answers. Use that to talk about things you didn't have room for in other places.

Devi Vallabhaneni (39:28)

Yeah, I absolutely agree.

Jessica Shklar (39:31)

that for the last minute.

Devi Vallabhaneni (39:33)

I hope this motivates people to really double down on the time they spend on their resume. And thank God we have a lot of resume modules in onTrack because to me as a interviewer, the weaker the resume, the more you have to prep for your interview. And shamelessly, I'm going to say that, but it's also true.

Jessica Shklar (39:52)

And while Harvard interviews are comprehensive, meaning your interviewer will have seen the whole application, many schools, with the exception of Harvard MIT, London Business School, Wharton and Darden, and NYU, all the other schools, the interview is blind, meaning the interviewer only ever sees your resume. So that resume has to stand on its own, has to be robust.

Harold Simansky (40:13)

Devi and Jessica, this is terrific. I hope you'll come back and join me for another podcast. It was really exciting. Yes, yes, yes. really exciting. Well, listen, thank you very much. And everyone, please take a look at all we have happening at mbaMission. We have comprehensive packages, hourly work, a huge number of resources, our new onTrack offering. By all means, give us a try. Give us a...

Jessica Shklar (40:18)

Let's do it. Separately or together.

Harold Simansky (40:40)

Give us a call, have a consult for us with 30 minutes, but it's Harold Simansky with Devi Vallabhaneni and Jessica Shklar at mbaMission. Thank you very much.

Jessica Shklar (40:49)

Thank you everyone. Bye.

Devi Vallabhaneni (40:50)

Thanks, Jessica. Thanks, Harold. See you guys.