Everything You Need to Know About MBA Recommenders

In this conversation, Harold Simansky and Kim Hoey discuss the importance of recommendations in the MBA application process. They address the question of how to handle constructive criticism in recommendations and emphasize the need for balance and authenticity. Kim shares her background and how she transitioned from investment banking to brand management and eventually to mbaMission. They also discuss the issue of writing your own recommendation and advise against it, highlighting the importance of a third-party perspective. They stress the significance of recommendations in the overall application and provide guidance on selecting the right recommenders. They also touch on the importance of specificity and authenticity in recommendations.

Takeaways

• Constructive criticism in recommendations provides a balanced perspective and allows the admissions committee to see the applicant holistically.
• Writing your own recommendation is not recommended as it lacks objectivity and authenticity.
• Recommendations are a critical part of the MBA application and can validate other parts of the application.
• The recommender should be someone who has worked closely with the applicant in a professional context and can provide specific examples of their skills and strengths.
• Recommendations should be genuine, enthusiastic, and avoid generic language.
• If the current supervisor cannot be a recommender, recent past supervisors or other professionals who have worked closely with the applicant can be considered.
• Recommendations should address the specific questions asked by the schools and provide examples of the applicant's work and growth mindset.
• Specificity and authenticity are key in writing effective recommendations.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to the mbaMission podcast
• 0:37 Kim Hoey, mbaMission Senior MBA Admissions Consultant
• 2:52 The importance of MBA letters of recommendation
• 5:43 Who should write your recommendation
• 10:49 What makes a strong recommendation
• 13:04 Constructive feedback in recommendations
• 15:06 Can you write your own recommendation?
• 21:21 Sign up for a free consultation with mbaMission

Transcript

Harold Simansky (00:10)
Hi everyone, this is Harold Simansky with the mbaMission Podcast. I'm here today with my colleague Kim Hoey. Hi Kim. Good morning, how are you? Great. So Kim and I are here today to talk about recommendations, particularly what you want your recommenders to say. But even before we do that, Kim, why don't you take a minute to just introduce yourself and provide some of your background and really how you got into this work.

Kimberly Hoey (00:18)
Hi Harold, good morning. Good, thank you.

Sure, sounds good. Thank you, Harold. Well, I attended college at Duke University where I majored in economics, minored in French, got a certificate in markets and management, and that took me to my first job out of school, which was investment banking. I worked for a couple of years in New York City in the real estate and lodging group for what was then Solomon Smith Barney and then did a third year out on the West Coast, went out to Palo Alto and joined the tech group, and then decided that investment banking was not the long -term career for me personally. I applied to business school and I

Harold Simansky (01:04)
Yeah.

Kimberly Hoey (01:06)
of joining Kellogg, which was a fantastic experience and made a bit of a career pivot. I went into brand management, worked in the CPG space for many years for Procter & Gamble, Wrigley Mars, until I received a call from a recruiter to join this sporting goods industry, which was really following a bit of a personal passion of mine. I ran varsity track and cross country while at Duke and still pretty active today. So moved into sporting goods.

Harold Simansky (01:14)
great.

Kimberly Hoey (01:36)
but still kind of in a brand management, marketing, e -commerce type of capacity. And then after that, I joined mbaMission. And I love now having the opportunity to really use my time in brand management, developing my communications, positioning, storytelling skills, to really help my clients with developing and crafting the most compelling, holistic story with their MBA applications, which has been just incredibly rewarding.

Harold Simansky (01:45)
Yeah.

Kimberly Hoey (02:06)
Happy to be here with you today. The mbaMission team is fantastic and I am so thankful and grateful for all of our colleagues.

Harold Simansky (02:13)
Absolutely. And Kim, I'm just going to put in a commercial for you. If you go onto Poets&Quants and you look at how many five -star reviews Kim has, it is dozens. It is absolutely dozens. So from that perspective, and again, another commercial here, if anyone wants to speak to Kim for 30 minutes or speak to any one of our consultants, we'd love to do that. Go onto our website and sign up for one of our free consultations.

Kimberly Hoey (02:25)
Thank you.

Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's one of the best services we provide is just the opportunity to meet with an experienced expert consultant, completely complimentary.

Harold Simansky (02:49)
Yeah, absolutely, no charge. But Kim, one thing that you've really become an expert on here at the firm is recommendations, particularly around how important they are, as well as just what a good recommendation looks like. So with that in mind, why don't you first share how you started thinking about recommendations, particularly in terms of how your clients treat them, I'll say, as well as what do you see as a really effective recommendation?

Kimberly Hoey (03:15)
Yeah, good questions, Harold. So, you know, it could be easy with this part of the application to be like, okay, I'm just going to enter my recommender's information, have the school email them, and I'm good to go. Check the box on that part of the application. But that is absolutely not the approach that you want, right? The letters of recommendation are such a critical part of the overall application. And in fact, we've even heard admissions directors say if they were to make a decision on an applicant based on only one part of the application,

Harold Simansky (03:27)
like that.

Kimberly Hoey (03:45)
they would choose to read the letters of recommendation. They're that crucial. you know, yeah.

Harold Simansky (03:48)
Yeah, I've actually heard that. I've seen that. And you and I can talk about what we sometimes find out from people who weren't our clients and come to us with less than ideal results. And we'll share how frequently that comes down to just not particularly compelling recommendations.

Kimberly Hoey (04:07)
Right, absolutely, absolutely. And they're just so important to the school because it really is the only outside third party point of view on you. The entire rest of the application is you talking about yourself. So the letters of recommendation can really validate, let's say, your quantitative or leadership or interpersonal skills. They can add credibility to other parts of the application. Say, for example, a story that you share in an essay. A letter of, you know, a recommender can add credibility to that

and the value that you brought the organization. You can also strategically use the letters of recommendation to address what may be a bit of a weakness in your overall profile. Let's say for example, your quantitative skills and you can direct your recommender to really focus on some projects that were quite heavy that really required a data analysis, critical thinking, problem solving to help mitigate that weakness. So really, the letters of recommendation are looked at as a very important part of the application.

Harold Simansky (04:45)
Mm

Yeah.

Kimberly Hoey (05:06)
third party point of view on you. I'd really hopefully like validate all the other parts of your application as well as adding to it. So that's why they're important but when you think about all those... Yeah.

Harold Simansky (05:15)
Yeah. I'll just sort of just jump in here and say, it's not unusual for a client to ask me, well, will the admissions committee believe what I have to say? I mean, in some ways, it's as simple as that. Do they actually believe me? And what I will say to them, if it's truly important, if it's truly been impactful, particularly for the firm, you have to have a recommender validate it. That is so critical.

Kimberly Hoey (05:30)
Wow.

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Yeah, so then when you think about all of that and how you want to use a lot of recommendation to enhance your overall profile, you do need to think critically about who you want to ask, right, to be the recommender and put some real thought to that. Certainly, you know, ideally the first place you can go is your current supervisor. We could talk about in a moment what happens if you can't go to that person, but really, you know, what's most important is that your recommender is someone who's senior to you. They've worked closely with you in a

Harold Simansky (06:03)
Yeah.

Kimberly Hoey (06:12)
professional context and that they can really speak to specific examples of you and your work and they can discuss your strengths, the value that you brought the organization, you your skill sets, your characteristics, and they can discuss that in depth and that they don't just talk in generic language. So needs to be someone who has worked very closely with you, but again, in that professional context.

Harold Simansky (06:35)
No, certainly makes sense. you sort of anticipated this question. Let's say you can't get your current supervisor to recommend you for the fact that you may lose your job if they know you're going to business school in the extreme or affect your bonus or whatever it is. What do you do then?

Kimberly Hoey (06:42)
Yeah.

Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, good question. And sometimes you can't ask your current supervisor or maybe it's not the best decision because you've only worked with them a short period of time. And therefore they just don't know you well enough. They haven't had enough interactions with you to be able to really write in the way that you need your recommender to write. Or it could be a situation like you said where you just don't want to disclose that you're looking into attending school because it may jeopardize something like you said, promotion or your job. So in that case, you really just want to look to who are recent past supervisors that you've

with. Again, kind of everything I said before, you still want to hold true. You've worked with them in professional context. You know, ideally they're senior to you. Someone who you do feel is going to be really enthusiastic about you. And I should have mentioned that before, you really do want someone who's going to write this strong endorsement of you and really write positively. So I'd say you go to the other people that you've worked with in the recent past. Again, it needs to be a meaningful duration of time. And then if you don't go with your current supervisor, some schools will

Harold Simansky (07:33)
Yeah.

Yes.

Kimberly Hoey (07:52)
directly ask in the application whether or not your current supervisor is a recommender and if not, why. So you have a place to explain that. But if the school doesn't directly ask that, you might want to address it in an optional essay. Just very briefly, doesn't need to be long, but just let the admissions committee know why you didn't choose your current supervisor.

Harold Simansky (07:54)
right.

Thank

Right, course. know, what I'd love to do is just take a minute to talk about who other potential recommenders are because again, it's not unusual. I don't know what the number is. 10, 20 percent where they say, nobody is really fitting the bill for me in the sense of either you have only had one current supervisor and they can't do it and you haven't had other relationships. You're in a family business. Do you ever have, what do you do at that point? And it's also not unusual for sometimes academically inclined people to say, can I use a

Kimberly Hoey (08:23)
Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Mm -hmm.

Harold Simansky (08:42)
as my recommendation. And how do you think about sort of, I'll call them the second tier recommenders or when you have to get creative.

Kimberly Hoey (08:44)
Mm -mm.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. yeah, sometimes people have family businesses, maybe entrepreneurs as well. They don't necessarily have a direct supervisor to ask. I think what's most important when you think about the ideal person to ask is that they need to be able to be sufficiently objective to, you know, speak, to bring credibility when the admissions committee is assessing that that recommendation. I, i .e. for a family business should not be

Harold Simansky (09:08)
Yep.

Kimberly Hoey (09:20)
someone from the family, you know, someone again, who is sufficiently objective. But yeah, you can think creatively. mean, perhaps it's someone who, depending on your line of work, was a client or a vendor or a supplier. Perhaps it's someone who is a professional from an outside company who you've worked with, maybe a banker, a lawyer, an investor, for example. So, you you do, you may need to think creatively, but again, I think it's that, you know, they can speak

Harold Simansky (09:21)
Right.

Yep. Yep.

Right. Right.

Kimberly Hoey (09:50)
objectively they've had significant enough interactions with you that they can talk to specific examples of your work and your skill sets and your character and you know that they you know

Again, we'll be able to just reflect positively on you as well, that they're gonna write, you know, enthusiastically and positively about you. So, but those can be tricky situations. That's in all honesty, when I would say give mbaMission a call, share your specific situation with the consultant and they can guide you with your very specific situation.

Harold Simansky (10:16)
right.

Yes.

Right. No, absolutely. And when I get those calls, and candidly, Kim, based on some of the things you've said, I will push folks in family businesses or startups to look at those adjacent people to them, whether it's your investor, your clients, your customers, and in actual fact, they can make for pretty compelling recommendations. So now what does a good recommendation look like?

Kimberly Hoey (10:46)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mm.

Harold Simansky (10:53)
And frequently, I'm going to anticipate a question here, frequently there's some hesitation around someone who has not written recommendations before, or English isn't their first language, or whatever it is. So what is a good recommendation? And at that point, I'm going to say what form should it take, but we can talk more about that.

Kimberly Hoey (11:03)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, a good recommendation has substance to it that is specific to you, the applicant, not generic language that could apply to anyone. think that's most important. But really the recommendation, think it's important for people to know as well. This is not just like a free form letter that the recommenders are writing. They're answering very specific questions from the schools. And oftentimes those questions are based on the common letter of recommendation. So one key question

Harold Simansky (11:30)
that.

right.

Kimberly Hoey (11:41)
being around, you know, comparing the applicant to their peers and really wanting to understand what their strengths are. And another question being for the recommender to provide an example of constructive criticism that they've given the applicant. And then really importantly here, how did the or what did the applicant do with that feedback? How did they action off of it? How did they show openness to that in a growth mindset? those are two very common questions that are being answered. And, you know, as

Harold Simansky (11:44)
Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bye.

Kimberly Hoey (12:11)
before and thinking about who you want your recommender to be, you really want your letter of recommendation to speak very specifically to examples of your work. Maybe a project that you led that had some really challenging component to the situation that you overcame and the leadership that you showed in that. Maybe again, if you want to address a weakness in your application around your quantitative skills, it's talking to like a significant model that you built and how

Harold Simansky (12:27)
Yeah.

everyone.

Kimberly Hoey (12:40)
thought about the decisions with the inputs and the outputs and then the recommendations that you made by taking the insights from that model and applying them to the specific business problem or situation. But really speaking very specifically to you, projects that you've led, their interactions with you, and avoiding just generic language.

Harold Simansky (13:01)
You know that makes sense.

Harold Simansky (13:04)
Kim, think one of the most difficult questions for people to understand, for even recommenders to understand, is the constructive feedback question. Because again, you're trying to paint a picture of someone who's terrific on all fronts, and it seems like a real minefield. How do you think about the constructive criticism feedback question?

Kimberly Hoey (13:24)
Yeah, that's a great question, Harold. It is a tricky one and definitely my clients have had difficulties with it at times as well. You know, with this question, I think one thing that's important is like it really gives the recommender a chance to have some balance to the recommendation. know, yes, you want them to be enthusiastic about you and speak to your strengths, but nobody's perfect, right? Everybody has opportunity areas that they can work on and this gives the opportunity to give the admissions committee perspective into you holistically as a candidate.

But in answering this, really the situation that's provided, you wanna make sure it's something that is addressable, right? That you can do something about to change because constructive criticism, usually it's something somewhat negative, right? But you don't want it to be something that is just inherent in who you are, who a person is that really can't be changed. It's just a part of their character. So you wanna be able to address it. And sometimes you wanna think about the flip side.

of a strength maybe that can be a negative. It can be one approach when brainstorming ideas. And then really the important part around this question is not just what was the constructive criticism, but what did you as the applicant do about it upon receiving the feedback? Were you open -minded? Were you willing to accept

criticism, so to speak, and say, okay, what can I do to improve in this area? And can the recommender speak to how you actioned off of their feedback, what you've done to address it, and how they've actually seen you improve in that specific area? And I'd say that's kind of the more important part of the question is really your open -mindedness and growth mindset to address the weakness.

Harold Simansky (15:04)
No, that makes sense. think, listen, one thing we always bump into, whether it's with our clients or other people that we connect with, maybe through one of our free consultations, is the question, can I write the recommendation myself? Or sometimes the recommender has asked me to write the recommendation for them. How do you advise clients when you are faced with this

Kimberly Hoey (15:25)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is so tricky when someone's put into that situation, but you absolutely do not want to be writing your own letter of recommendation. You know, it's very fair to write a memo to your recommender, remind them of your accomplishments and your achievements, remind them of the projects that you worked on together, and maybe some specific details of the situation.

but you don't wanna actually write the response yourself. First of all, it can be very difficult to speak as positively about yourself as an outside person can, right? Most people, that's kind of a difficult thing to do, whereas a third party who truly has had an amazing experience with you is in a position to be able to write just much more candidly in a positive way, like really that like enthusiastic glowing endorsement of you. So you could be doing yourself a disservice by even trying to write your own.

letter of recommendation. But also, it truly isn't a true ethical line that you don't want to cross. And the admissions committees feel very strongly about it. They will look at your own writing through your essays versus the letter of recommendation writing and to see, it the same? Is it too similar? That raises a red flag for them. And if for any reason they think that you absolutely did write your own letters of recommendation, that will disqualify you from being offered.

to join their class. So, you know, with your recommender, if they put you in that position, instead I would, you know, have an in -person conversation with them about why you can't write it yourself, but what you're gonna do to make it as easy as possible for them. So, you know, sharing with them why you want the MBA, what your career goals are, how the MBA is gonna enable you to achieve those goals, and then, you know, let them know details of the process just for their own awareness.

and share with them the fact that you will give them a memo that will help to guide them in answering the questions, but that they need to be the one to actually answer the question in their own words, adding in their own perspective as well. But you will do everything possible to make it as easy as possible on

Harold Simansky (17:35)
Yeah, no, that makes sense. And I always like to remind my clients that they have to remember we live in a world now of anti -plagiarism software is everywhere. It's easy. And we only have to look at ChatGBT only means they're really going to be on the look at Google more for these artificially or recommendations they never wrote. again, it's the third rail. If they think that you've written your recommendation, then you're rejected. It's sort of like that simple. Well, yeah.

Kimberly Hoey (17:45)
Everywhere,

Yeah.

So true, so true.

Harold Simansky (18:05)
all of

Kimberly Hoey (18:06)
And I think it's important to have for someone who maybe is not comfortable with writing, maybe English isn't their native language, to know that the admissions committee, they know that you are not applying for a PhD in English or writing, and they're not expecting your recommenders to necessarily be amazing writers. So I wouldn't worry about that. It's more the substance than the detail of what they can share about you versus the actual writing style or how perfect your grammar is.

Et cetera. So I wouldn't want those to be reasons that a recommender feels held back. They shouldn't worry too much about that. And for someone who English is not their native language or not, they're not comfortable writing in English, they can write in their native language and there can be services that are used to translate into English.

Harold Simansky (18:52)
Absolutely. I see imperfect English also is a sign of authenticity. Meaning that this person hasn't necessarily spent a lot of time polishing, but instead we really wanted to make the priority number one is getting the message out. From that perspective.

Kimberly Hoey (19:06)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And I'll say too, just going back to speaking to what makes a good recommendation kind of along the lines of what you were just talking about, it's not only like being able to write with detail and specificity, but it's having a sense of being genuine as well, right? That the recommender is like genuinely endorsing and supportive of this person. And like you said, there is a sense of like, know, authenticity that needs to come through. And so, you

not necessarily formulating answers, not necessarily perfect English or grammar, but more the sense of like, yes, I genuinely support this person, think they would be an incredible contribution to your class and, you know, supportive of them and their goals.

Harold Simansky (19:48)
Yep. No, that makes sense. And Kim, just as we're finishing up here, client asked you again, what makes for recommendation, for great recommendation, what they should think about. What do you say?

Kimberly Hoey (20:02)
Yeah, so I think, you know, kind of going back through what we've talked about a little bit so far, it's, you know, really thinking critically about who your recommender is and who's going to be able to provide those best stories about you, who is going to write this like, you know, glowing endorsement and be enthusiastic to you. And then, you know, with that, providing them with the tools to do so. So writing a strong

memo to them that then enables them to have substance to their letter of recommendation, to talk to you, to stories and examples of you, your skill sets, your strengths, your character, how you brought value to the organization with specificity where the language couldn't apply to anyone else but you, right? So, you know, really avoiding just generic like the, you know, Harold is great.

He's one of the best analysts I've ever had, you know, but really specificity to you and what you did, how you showed leadership or how you showed analytical aptitude or your, you know, collaboration skills, teamwork skills, how you led a team. It really depends on you and your situations, but really making sure you enable your recommender to provide the specificity needed for a strong letter of recommendation and fully answering the questions that the admissions committee is asking as

Harold Simansky (21:20)
Kim, this has all been terrific. And let me just ask you, if somebody wanted to spend 30 minutes talking to you for free, how would they do

Kimberly Hoey (21:28)
Yeah, absolutely, I would enjoy that. So just go to mbaMission .com and there's a really clear button on our homepage. Sign up for a free consultation call and then just fill out the form, I should say, where we ask for some basic information about you and your situation and then you'll be able to request to speak with me or any of my colleagues, all of whom are experts in the process and would be able to provide.

a fantastic overview of you and your profile and help you understand the best next steps for your application.

Harold Simansky (22:00)
Perfect. This is Harold Simansky with my colleague, Kim Hoey here at mbaMission. Please join us for some other mbaMission podcasts. Have a great day,