Navigating the Business School Selection Process + Stanford GSB Tips

In this conversation, Harold Simansky and Debbie Choy discuss school selection for MBA programs. Debbie shares her experience of choosing Stanford and emphasizes the importance of being authentic in the application process. They also discuss factors to consider when selecting schools, such as geography and industry connections. Debbie dispels the myth that Stanford is only for entrepreneurs and suggests other schools with strong entrepreneurial programs. They also provide tips for crafting a strong Stanford essay and offer advice for applicants, including staying organized and staying true to oneself.

Takeaways

• Choosing a business school requires careful consideration of factors such as geography and industry connections.
• Stanford is not just for entrepreneurs; other schools like Wharton and Harvard also have strong entrepreneurial programs.
• Crafting a strong Stanford essay involves self-reflection and peeling back the layers to identify what truly matters most to the applicant.
• Applicants should start the MBA application process early and allocate 8 to 12 hours per week for preparation.
• Staying organized and staying true to oneself are key to navigating the application process successfully.

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Chapters

• 0:00 MBA school selection
• 1:48 Authenticity in MBA applications
• 4:15 Key factors in school selection: geography
• 6:29 Key factors in school selection: post-MBA industry
• 7:36 Key factors in school selection: pedagogy
• 9:03 Is the Stanford GSB only for entrepreneurs?
• 10:50 Other MBA programs for entrepreneurs
• 13:14 Tackling the Stanford GSB application essays
• 15:43 MBA application timeline
• 20:27 Tips for business school application

Transcript

Harold Simansky (00:11)
is Harold Simansky here with the mbaMission podcast. I'm here with my colleague, Debbie Choy who is a managing director here at mbaMission Hi, Debbie.

Debbie (00:20)
Hello, Harold. Good to see you.

Harold Simansky (00:22)
Nice to see you as well. Debbie, we're here today to talk a little bit about school selection and let's start off with how you yourself chose the school that you attended. As many people may know, you attended Stanford. And if I remember correctly, that was a little bit of, can I say surprise when you decided to go there or unexpected when you decided to go there?

Debbie (00:41)
Yeah, definitely. And I applied to a variety of schools. you know, had researched schools and really felt that, you know, these were fantastic programs. I couldn't choose. So I was like, I'm just going to apply to as many schools as I can and, you know, see what what I get into. And Stanford was certainly a school that was really impressive, but also really intimidating. And, you know, the acceptance rates are so low. It was so selective.

And I almost did not apply because you know, I didn't think that I would get in. I had a mentor at work at that time who was a GSB grad and she was incredibly encouraging and supportive and she said, you know, I think actually you would be a good fit for the school. Why not give it a shot? So with her encouragement, I submitted my application to the GSB. I was truly surprised and honored when I offered

and a spot.

Harold Simansky (01:43)
No, listen, I can understand that. Obviously, great school. We frequently have a lot of our clients applying. As you think back, was there any one thing in your application that really stood out that made GSB very interested in you?

Debbie (01:55)
Yeah, and I will tell you that the first day I arrived on campus, my classmates and I looked at each other and we were just pinching ourselves because we just, you know, didn't didn't know why we were chosen out of, you know, all of these other very qualified friends and colleagues that we know who applied as well. But I think that one thing we all have in common as we started talking was just being really authentic in the way that

we presented our stories in the applications and the essays and the interviews and I think that is a big part of what the school is looking for and what it's trying to surface from its essay questions.

Harold Simansky (02:41)
What I found about the GSB, particularly with my own clients, is that there always feels like just a touch of randomness to it. I frequently I'll have folks who seem so perfect for the GSB and they don't get in. And then I folks who I, again, I don't want to say had some hesitation with, but I was a little surprised, I'll say, when they do get in. Is there anything in particular you think that there's something about the GSB that it lends itself to very different types of people? Is that it?

Debbie (03:09)
That's a very good question Harold and I wish that I had the answer. I think it would make our lives, our jobs a lot easier. But I think that what we are missing from this side of the table is who else is applying that year. As we know, the school admissions committee is trying to put together a diverse class and it's just really hard to know who else with a similar profile might

applying that year. And I think that's something that I try to convey to my clients as well, is that they may, you know, do everything right, they may have a terrific profile, but there just may be, you know, something else at play in the larger picture that we are not privy to on this side of the table.

Harold Simansky (03:56)
No, that makes sense. That makes sense. Then. So like you, I have many clients who come to me with, it's really, I want to apply to Stanford. Stanford's for me. And what I'll frequently tell them is stamp. If Stanford's your dream school, but all means apply. But at the same point, you have to think about other schools, other schools you'd be happy with. So when a client comes to you, maybe committed to Stanford, but really wants to go to business school, how do you help them think about school selection?

Debbie (04:22)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's a great exercise that every applicant should go through because, know, we all have our dream schools, but in the event that it doesn't pan out, you know, what is our plan B? You know, and there are a lot of really great schools that would, you know, deliver the same well -rounded business education and, you know, network and so on. And I encourage them to think about the factors that are most important to

What are their goals that they want to get out of two years at business school and even through their career? You know, one big factor is the geography. A lot of people, you know, don't actually pay enough attention to that. think that where you want to build your career long term is important because the school's alumni network tends to be strongest in the region that is based. So, you know, I have folks who

wanting to build their careers in Europe and I would certainly encourage them to think about if they want to come to school in the US, think about a school that has a more international alumni base, it has a brand in Europe that their future employers are going to know. So that's one factor to consider. Yeah, go ahead.

Harold Simansky (05:34)
Yes.

Did Debbie, let's just play a little game like that. So as you think about schools that have, European or international footprints, are there any schools that particularly come to mind?

Debbie (05:48)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think a lot of the East Coast schools are very strong, have very strong connections with Europe. It's closer to Europe. MIT, HBS, Columbia, very large cosmopolitan cities, Wharton, obviously. So yeah, I can rattle off a list, but certainly when you look at the East Coast schools near big cities, those are a good bet.

Harold Simansky (06:12)
Yeah.

Bye bye.

Yeah. No, that makes sense. so geography certainly plays a, plays into the school selection decision. And what other factors are, do you have people keep in

Debbie (06:32)
So another factor is where they want to, what type of industry they want to enter post -MBA. Yeah, there are, you know, certain industries that have stronger connections. So for example, if somebody tells me, look, I want to go into the, the energy industry. Well, you know, let's look at some schools, maybe UT Austin, maybe Rice, you know, in Texas that have traditionally those strong connection to

Harold Simansky (06:56)
Yep. Yes.

Debbie (07:02)
energy sector. Now, and then there may be students that say, really want, you know, I've built my career in industrials and manufacturing, I really want to join, you know, a company like that. Well, let's take a look at schools that may have a stronger connection with manufacturing, maybe Carnegie Mellon, right, maybe some of the Midwestern schools. So yeah, so the industry that you want to build your career in also plays an

Harold Simansky (07:25)
Yes.

Debbie (07:32)
factor.

Harold Simansky (07:33)
No, no, that makes sense then. And it's my understanding Stanford teaches in many different ways. case, sort of general, I guess you'd call them, outside the classroom.

that sort of, that sort of thing. And as you, if I'm someone who comes to you and says, listen, I'm not so committed to K to case method. Are there schools at that point that really speak to you or schools that maybe are a little bit off the beaten path that you really would have people consider.

Debbie (08:04)
Yeah. So the two schools that are really famous for, you know, using a hundred percent, if not 90 % case method would be HBS and Darden. And I think most other schools will use a combination of case and lecture and, you know, experiential hands -on, right? So I think that it's actually easier if you are somebody who's not committed to the case method. That being said, I don't actually have a

of applicants come to me say I only want to go to a case method school because that really narrows down their choices and I think the you know giving the professors that freedom to structure that you know whether to use a case method or a lecture or something else you know is really a good idea so you really get that best teaching method for what they're trying to convey.

Harold Simansky (09:01)
No, that makes sense. And Stanford has always been considered this super entrepreneurial school, meaning sort of every graduate, if they haven't started a company while they're students, they actually start a company right after they leave school. was that your experience or was it a more diverse school student body?

Debbie (09:20)
Good question. And I think that's a little bit of a myth. I kind of want to bust that myth. When I was there, there's certainly a segment of my classmates who had started companies or were starting companies even during school and working on their business idea. But a large portion of us were just going into regular consulting, banking, or finance, or industry.

say that that dominated the culture when I was there. And certainly from what I am seeing now in their employment reports and what I'm hearing from clients who are going through the experience, that's also not the case. So, you know, I think it's a little bit of a myth that, you know, to be accepted into Stanford, you have to either have started your own company or want to start your own company. Actually, a lot of people do go into, you know, kind of the traditional business school

Harold Simansky (10:21)
No that makes sense then. I've always been surprised and impressed in terms of what I find in the employment report because sometimes honestly can be a real myth buster with the notion here Kellogg being marketing or brand management actual fact you just don't see that many people are going to market or brand management or from that perspective even Wharton being a finance school well people are doing a lot more than finance.

Debbie (10:31)
Yeah.

Right,

yeah.

Harold Simansky (10:47)
Are there, again, you probably have a lot of people who choose to work with you because they want to go to Stanford. They want that entrepreneurial vibe. Are there, and always we need to temper people's expectations. If they come to you with sort of that story, what other schools do you suggest that they consider as

Debbie (11:05)
Good, good question. There are actually a lot of schools since the whole, you know, like, that technology has just grown and everybody is interested in startup programs now. All of the top 10, if not the top 15 schools have invested heavily in having their own entrepreneurial programs and courses. A really good one to consider is Wharton. And I've read in newspaper articles that Wharton actually

more graduates to Silicon Valley every year than Stanford does. Yeah, yeah, because of, you know, Wharton is a much bigger class. you know, numbers wise, I would say Wharton is a really good program to look at, not just because of the entrepreneurial program, but you know, if you decide, okay, I want to do a startup in real estate, gosh, you are looking at an intersection between entrepreneurial program and real estate, then Wharton also has

Harold Simansky (11:39)
was that right? Wow.

Yes.

Right.

Debbie (12:05)
resources in a lot of other disciplines. So that's a good program to look into. And of course Harvard, you know, also has a fantastic program. Outside of that, you can also look at a school like Columbia that there's a community in New York City called Silicon Alley. And they're very plugged into that. There's also UT Austin. You know, a lot of tech companies have been migrating from

Harold Simansky (12:12)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yes.

Right. Yeah. Yes.

Debbie (12:35)
Bay Area to Austin. So that's another good program. I also want to give a shout out again to Carnegie Mellon. Yeah, so the Pittsburgh startup scene, super vibrant. And then of course, not to forget the Chicago schools, Kellogg and Booth have also invested heavily in those programs.

Harold Simansky (12:43)
Yes.

Right. Right. No, that makes sense. I've always been really impressed with Carnegie Mellon with Tepper because all of the top tech companies there, Amazon, I mean, in Pittsburgh, Amazon is in Pittsburgh. Meta is in Pittsburgh. Uber is in Pittsburgh and more than just Uber drivers. mean, the actual company is there. Definitely. in the reality though, for Debbie is Stanford just feels so

Debbie (13:06)
yeah. Right. Exactly.

Harold Simansky (13:20)
And I think part of it has to do with that really difficult essay, which it's sort of funny. We all do a lot of Stanford essays, and I found it a very hard essay to help people with, but also very valuable for other applications, just getting your head around it. How did you, and just remind everyone, the

central question for Stanford is what matters most to you and why it can be very intimidating, very open. How do you work with your clients as far as crafting the right answer for that? What does a strong Stanford essay actually look like? How is it different? That sort of thing.

Debbie (13:53)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah, good question. Two things that I try to use with my clients. The first is never start with that essay. Never let that be the first essay you write for a business school. In fact, if somebody comes to me and says, I'm only applying to Stanford, I have them start writing the second essay first. the second essay of why Stanford is more straightforward is about your career goals and how a Stanford MBA will help you.

Harold Simansky (14:06)
Yeah. Right.

Okay, yeah.

Yeah.

Debbie (14:24)
So start writing that essay first before you get to what matters most. Or better yet, if you're applying to other schools, which I strongly encourage them to do, start with the other schools first. Now, the second thing then is to keep peeling back the onion as you think about your answer to what matters most to me. The first thing I have my clients do is to complete this sentence for me, what matters most to me is, and I really want them to fit their answer into

sentence because if they can't do that then you know we need to try to tighten that up and really crystallize their idea. So that's the first thing I try to let them you know take a stab at and then once we have that we start peeling back the onion to ask why. So for instance if somebody tells me what what matters most to me is my family why is that important? Let's peel back the onion let's dig a little bit deeper.

Harold Simansky (14:55)
Right, right.

Bye.

Yeah.

Yeah. Right.

Debbie (15:24)
If they give me an answer, I ask them again, why? Why is that important? So I keep asking why until we really try to get to the root, the core of what it is that really is important to them.

Harold Simansky (15:25)
Okay.

Okay.

Right.

No that that makes sense. Absolutely. And Debbie, let me even roll it back a little bit more. you have somebody who says to you, let's say their GMAT is done. Let's say it's about May 1st and they say, I want to apply to business school. They haven't even done more than that. How do people even get started at that

Debbie (16:00)
So May 1st is a really good timeline to start. I definitely have clients coming to me much later. Now, the first thing to do is to think about the school selection and try to narrow it down a little bit. some, some folks might have, you know, a list of five, six schools that they are interested in. Now I think that applying to four, five, or even six schools for the first round for any one round,

is quite doable provided that they start ahead of time. And May 1st definitely enough plenty of time to tackle, you know, let's say five schools. And I also encourage them to think about the two rounds as opposed to just focusing on one round. And round two could be a good round for them if they don't get the results they want. Let's say they get waitlisted. You know, think about what could be two or three schools that

might be interested in applying to in round two.

So we think about that strategy, which round for which school. And then we also look at the timing of the deadlines. And usually around May 1st, schools are just starting to release their essays and their timelines. But we usually get a good sense for what that timeline is or the deadlines, depending on what their last year's deadline was. So we get a sense for, maybe we know that

Harold Simansky (17:18)
Yes.

Debbie (17:32)
Harvard, it's super early, Wharton and Harvard are right after Labor Day, so we maybe want to tackle those schools first. So we come up with that cadence, that know action plan, and then we want to start get started on the brainstorming process. So that's where they are going through that self -reflection process, asking themselves a lot of deep questions, thinking about their key personal and professional stories, and ideally they're writing this

Harold Simansky (17:48)
Yep.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Debbie (18:02)
as well so that they can you know go back and reflect or if they're working with a consultant share that with their consultant so that their consultant really starts to get to know them their stories their strengths and weaknesses. So that's the next part of the process that then allows them to get started on picking the stories you know crafting that narrative for the essays and then you know after they get started on that they start drafting the essays and editing the essays.

Harold Simansky (18:02)
it.

Debbie (18:32)
and that's a big part of the work that we do.

Harold Simansky (18:34)
Yes, yes, yes. It sure is. And Debbie, how long should people think about working on MBA applications for? it an hour, a day, a week, a month, two months, three months? What's your general timeline? Do you give most of your clients?

Debbie (18:50)
Yeah, good question. And I try to tell my clients to set aside 8 to 12 hours a week. Now, whether they do a couple of hours a day or a full Saturday or Sunday, that's okay. It's up to their work schedule. But they want to keep making that continuous progress. Now, keep in mind, a lot of my clients are also still in the process of taking their test, their GMAT GRE, or retaking it. So they'd have to

that on top of the 8 to 12 hours, know, however number of hours they need for studying. So it does add up to be quite significant and most of my clients tell me that is, you know, a second job almost, you know. Yeah, exactly. Now in terms of how early they should start, should they start two, three, four, six months in advance? You know, a lot of times we're looking at two to three months in advance of the deadlines. It's, you know, plenty of

Harold Simansky (19:24)
Yes.

Yes, definitely. Definitely. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Debbie (19:51)
provided that they're able to of course, know, organize, manage their time efficiently. And, you know, just taking a look at the round one start, right? So usually the deadlines are in September, you know, but the schools don't usually release their new essay questions until, you know, late May, early June. This year, we even had a slightly later start. So everybody's starting at the same starting line, which is great. It means that,

Harold Simansky (20:15)
Yes.

Yeah. Right, right, right. No, that absolutely makes sense. And Debbie, just as we're finishing up here, and I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit. Do you have one key piece of advice for people who are applying to business school

Debbie (20:20)
Nobody really has a head start.

gosh, I have so many pieces of advice. I would say the one important thing is really to organize, get organized. There are so many moving pieces that you really, you know, if you're not organized, if you're not thinking about, okay, what do I tackle first? What do I do next? Then it can get really overwhelming.

Harold Simansky (20:43)
Yeah, you can have two then.

Debbie (21:08)
And the second piece of advice I would say is to try to be authentic in the sense of knowing what your true North is. And there's a lot of information and misinformation out there, a lot of information on websites, forums, and also your friends and colleagues who are really trying to help and they...

A lot of this advice may be conflicting or it may not be authentic to who you are. So I think having that filter, having that strong filter, whether it's a sounding board that you have in the form of a consultant or someone who knows you very well and can keep you grounded, keep you to your true north, I think that is super important in guiding you towards that goal.

Harold Simansky (21:36)
Yes,

Yes.

Debbie (22:03)
That would be the two pieces of advice. It's easier said than done.

Harold Simansky (22:06)
Right. Great, Debbie. Debbie, thank you very much for joining us today. And for those of you who want to speak to Debbie.

maybe spend 30 minutes on the con on a call with her. You can do that by going to the mbaMission website and signing up for a free consult. And you can choose Debbie. You can choose me, or you can choose any one of our other about 25 or so consultants. This is Harold Simansky with the mbaMission podcast. And hopefully you will be listening with us again