#2. From Heartache to Hope: Rediscovering Life After Divorce with Jeff

In this episode, my friend Jeff opens up about the profound loneliness he felt in his marriage, his affair, and the complexities of co-parenting. He shares his journey of spiritual growth, rediscovering himself after divorce, and his pursuit of love and happiness.

Jeff also shares the mistakes he made during his divorce settlement and the “bullets he bit” in co-parenting while striving to love, support, and care for his two daughters. 

I am deeply touched and grateful for Jeff’s candour and honoured by his trust. We shared many laughs along the way, too. I hope this episode brings you joy, hope, and peace.

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Transcript

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When you had the affair, were you running away from the marriage

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or were you running toward the

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this new relationship?

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Oh, that's a great question.

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I've never really thought about it in that term before.

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Welcome to Untying the Knot, your go to podcast for all things divorce.

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We're here to share stories

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and strategies to help you untangle the knots in your divorce,

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so you can navigate it with confidence and clarity and build the life you desire.

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I'm your host, Lisa GU, and,

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we have my friend Jeff today, and,

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yeah, to share his divorce journey and super grateful.

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Jeff and I met at a yoga retreat 2 or 3 years ago, and I think two years ago.

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Yeah, we we, we have the same meditation teacher, so. And,

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some of you know that I'm

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going to Bali, you to get my yoga teacher training certificate.

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Jeff just went in March, so he was giving me all the tips about

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the trip and stuff, and then I was like, wow, you should come to

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my, coaching program to talk about your journey.

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And he just super gracefully accepted that invitation.

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And, here we are.

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So that's where Jeff and I met.

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Also, Jeff is an entrepreneur.

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You have your own business.

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Yeah. Yeah, I'm a painter.

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painting business. And for many, many years.

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Yeah, I've been in it for well over 20 years.

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I started in year 2000.

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I've been at it, for 24 years now. Yeah.

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Awesome.

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And and he's, everything in my house right now

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in the basement regarding this together, which doesn't happen often, so.

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Okay.

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so tell us

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how how did your divorce, start?

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Like, how many years were you married?

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And did you have kids?

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And how you start, like, come about?

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Okay, well, I was married for about 12 years.

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we have two children.

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they're,

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now they are 14 and 17 years old.

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I guess one of the things about,

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about my divorce is I held on to my marriage way too long.

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Like, stayed in, after I was unhappy and things weren't working.

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because I was scared of how how,

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the divorce would affect the kids.

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You. Yeah.

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Maybe a lot of fear.

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scared of not spending as much time with my kids.

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and, And just how how they'd be affected.

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but, but,

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yeah, all that, all those fears were pretty much unfounded.

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They're they're doing well. They're in high school.

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They're. Yeah.

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I have good grades and they're they're happy. So.

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So that's,

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Yeah.

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one of the, the things that,

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that I want to emphasize about,

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about my divorce is that,

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you know, when you, when you realize things are are not good

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or you're in the wrong place, it's, it's better to get out to make a change.

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or I shouldn't say not necessarily get out,

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but make make a change that,

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for your own happiness.

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Because staying staying somewhere where, where you're unhappy and,

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and things aren't working, just, just puts in time and,

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and doesn't improve anybody's life.

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and sometimes that change doesn't necessarily, have to be divorce.

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It could be improvement on yourself.

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An improvement on your marriage.

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If the other person is willing to meet you.

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And you mentioned there were times that you realize you were not happy.

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So how long

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was that

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period before you decide, okay, I, I,

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I have to end this marriage and to start,

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start new.

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And what were there some triggers or events

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and that help you make that decision?

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yeah, definitely. I,

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I, I can't really pinpoint spot at like one time when I said,

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you know, six years in or ten years in is way where I felt that I was.

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Yeah, unhappy like there were I remember

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little things all the way along.

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that, you know, kind of made me realize that

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that we weren't right for each other.

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yeah, I, I even remember on my honeymoon

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being a little bit unhappy,

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or thinking,

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maybe this isn't the right, the right partner for me.

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And, you know, that's not saying that she's a bad person.

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Just.

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We weren't well-matched,

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but she was the person that I was dating when when I was 30 years old.

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And that's, you know, all my friends were married, and I wanted to be too.

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So, because that social convention pressure is like this,

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you should do this, right?

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Rather than listening to your,

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inner voice or heart like.

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There may be something not quite right.

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Yeah.

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I was you know, back then I didn't know about listening to my heart.

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I wasn't into any, I didn't do yoga,

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I didn't have any,

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real,

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holistic,

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training or any modalities that, that I followed back

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then, you know, I, I went to a Christian church and,

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I was starting

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my business around that time and,

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you know, just living very much in the, in the material world.

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next time.

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I'm going inside.

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So what wasn't right.

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see I think I always wanted more, I was always wanted you know

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more adventure to, to do more stuff,

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to to explore the world more.

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And she was very happy just having, a normal life watching.

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Watching TV.

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you know, going to going to work, coming home and,

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watching the soap operas that she had recorded during the day.

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And yeah.

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And that takes you with that.

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What's the soap opera she recorded that dates.

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You know back then.

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Yeah.

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so it's sounds like it's

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the development piece or life vision piece that really didn't align

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that the life you wanted to growing to or

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Become.

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It is a little bit different.

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Probably something you never talked about when you were dating,

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but it became more and more obvious.

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Yes. You.

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Yeah. Went through life.

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Absolutely. Yeah. And I think another thing,

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we grew apart as we were married. So.

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So I think lots of times it works the opposite way

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that two people meet and they get together.

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And maybe communication is, is the, the key.

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But, I think sometimes people can, can grow together while they're married.

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But we tended to or we did, grow apart even.

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Yeah.

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Even while we were married and living in the same house.

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Were just growing apart of me.

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Like what are some examples of you sense examples?

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Well, I,

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I stopped being happy with being,

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you know, 20 pounds overweight and,

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you know, drinking too much and

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that sort of lifestyle.

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And I started doing yoga. I,

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I took, I learned how to do Reiki.

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I started long distance running and really tried.

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It was trying to improve,

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my legs.

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And I would have, like for to come along on that journey with me and that, Yeah.

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That never happened.

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And I think I made the mistake of, you know, pushing too hard.

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And then, you know, maybe she got turned off of

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all those ideas of you need it, you know,

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saw it as a, as a pressure maybe.

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So you were changing your lifestyle.

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Yeah. consciously. Yeah.

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I think I think I was changing and maybe she wasn't.

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And then that's how we grew apart.

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And so what happened leading to the divorce.

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Well leading into the divorce

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I met someone else and

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someone, you know, she showed interest in me,

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which, which my wife,

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you know, very little interest,

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in me or any of the things that we were doing and we,

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wound up having,

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a three year affair or, before I got divorced.

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yeah.

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Maybe the right thing to do at that point would have been to,

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to end.

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But definitely the right thing to do would have been to end things

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right there.

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because that was a pretty good sign that I wasn't happy in my marriage.

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But still, fear was the, motivating factor

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that that kept me in marriage of, Yeah.

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Fear of losing my children.

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Losing my house.

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All that.

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My whole thing.

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Thank you for sharing that I know can be really really hard and

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What would you do

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differently if it's, you know,

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with regards to that part.

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yeah I guess if you drop.

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Yeah.

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Me now into any point, I would have,

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Yeah. I think

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first of all, saying,

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having a discussion about the things that I'm unhappy with at the time.

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and seeing if, you know, we could work hard and fix things before,

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before they got to the point where we were that far apart and,

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and then, you know, if,

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if that wasn't possible, getting out of the marriage

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earlier rather than later.

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And yeah

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there would have been less hard feelings, less time wasted.

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if if I could do it that way.

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For sure.

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So the fear of I think a lot of fathers in particular

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because we used to have this culture is that you get a divorce.

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The father owning see the children you know every other weekend.

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That's kind of the, the deal or the norm.

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It's far from the truth now.

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And, and I see a lot of fathers fighting

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for more time and, and the fact that they have to fight for more time.

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Says that we still kind of have that culture back, and it's more common

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for fathers to be engaged in,

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even after the divorce and have like, equal parenting time now.

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So, so how did, at the time, it was,

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well, how long ago?

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Ten years ago.

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2006. So eight years. Ago.

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Yeah. So.

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And not even longer.

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So how did the divorce and come along that legal side of things

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and how did it how did it go?

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When you do tell her that you want a divorce?

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yeah.

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What, what happened after,

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she found out about about the affair.

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Really?

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For a year, we, we tried to work on on the marriage.

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And after

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working really hard on the marriage for

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for about a year, I realized that I had been working

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really hard to get back something that I didn't want.

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In the first place. So,

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we sat down, had a discussion and,

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yeah.

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From there I realized that I wasn't in love with

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my wife and we, decided to get a divorce.

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and we went through,

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I forget what it was called, kind of a mediation, sort of.

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Collaborative law. Club book.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Collaborative, family law. Yes.

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What it was called.

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Was a collaborative.

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And yeah

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I think it worked out in, in the children's favor.

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It, it might have been a little expensive

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for me in the long run, but

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but we came up I think the,

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the best thing about it is we came up with,

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a nice schedule that, the children

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share time at my house and,

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their mom's house.

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so really, I get to see then,

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every day of the week, except for Mondays.

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So that's,

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that's

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I know some someone in our audience

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is very curious about how to achieve achieve that.

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And we can, answer questions later.

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what's, I know you're so

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kind and gentle and I don't know if you mind sharing

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what's the toughest part,

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because I know you have an in collaborative law situation.

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It's not easy. It.

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Yes, it's collaborative, but we're still dividing two people's life and assets.

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Right.

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And and so what's the tough part?

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I guess at the time, I didn't have a very good lawyer.

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and my ex-wife did have a very good lawyer.

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And so I guess.

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I tell me, what does it not not a not a good, not so good lawyer mean.

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Well, I, I told him what my

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what my goals were, what I wanted.

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And, he didn't really actually say anything,

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so I didn't stand up to, you know, the other lawyer in the room.

00:14:57:00 - 00:15:00:17
So I felt it like it was me

00:15:00:17 - 00:15:04:05
against my ex-wife and her lawyer with,

00:15:04:12 - 00:15:08:01
with my lawyer, just kind of sitting back and taking notes.

00:15:08:19 - 00:15:12:22
That's really all he did in that process is, is take notes and.

00:15:12:22 - 00:15:17:08
Yeah, when it came time to argue on my behalf, I looked at him.

00:15:18:01 - 00:15:21:05
He looked at me and looked back to his notes.

00:15:22:19 - 00:15:26:15
So, yeah, no one likens me to lawyers.

00:15:26:15 - 00:15:27:02
An hour.

00:15:27:02 - 00:15:29:01
To take notes then and not if.

00:15:29:01 - 00:15:32:02
Not, I think I was paying him about $300. To,

00:15:35:24 - 00:15:38:24
no, to to

00:15:39:16 - 00:15:42:01
respect to, to the lawyers, but it's

00:15:42:01 - 00:15:45:24
I think you're talking about the dynamic between your side and the other side.

00:15:46:06 - 00:15:49:14
And, I, I have clients that in collaborative law,

00:15:50:23 - 00:15:55:04
situation is it seems like it's always one side is more aggressive, one side.

00:15:55:05 - 00:15:56:15
The side is more collaborative.

00:15:56:15 - 00:15:59:04
That's why I asked, like, how collaborative?

00:15:59:04 - 00:15:59:22
yeah. What's the I.

00:15:59:22 - 00:16:03:06
Think you I think you still need to, Advocate for yourself.

00:16:03:12 - 00:16:06:09
To advocate or get if you can't do that,

00:16:06:09 - 00:16:09:09
if you're not great at arguing and

00:16:09:09 - 00:16:12:03
and make sure that you still do have a really good lawyer.

00:16:13:05 - 00:16:14:00
Because the way.

00:16:14:00 - 00:16:17:06
Yeah, the way it was presented to me is like everyone's looking out

00:16:17:06 - 00:16:21:20
for everyone else and yeah, rainbows and puppies and unicorns.

00:16:21:20 - 00:16:23:17
And oh like in the collaborative law.

00:16:23:17 - 00:16:25:06
Like I'm trying to be something.

00:16:25:06 - 00:16:25:20
Yeah.

00:16:25:20 - 00:16:28:12
But it wasn't it's not it's still.

00:16:28:12 - 00:16:30:23
Yeah, yeah it's still everybody is.

00:16:30:23 - 00:16:31:16
Yeah, yeah.

00:16:31:16 - 00:16:33:05
You get as much as they can get.

00:16:33:05 - 00:16:35:08
Yeah. So, Yeah, yeah.

00:16:35:08 - 00:16:38:16
If you advocating is, for yourself

00:16:38:17 - 00:16:41:17
is key and especially from,

00:16:42:03 - 00:16:44:04
even interviewing your lawyer.

00:16:44:04 - 00:16:45:01
Right. It's okay.

00:16:45:01 - 00:16:48:15
Like, you can choose your lawyer because it's a, it's a such a key partnership.

00:16:49:06 - 00:16:50:22
in the whole divorce journey.

00:16:50:22 - 00:16:54:15
Like, you gotta find the right lawyer that aligns, understands

00:16:54:15 - 00:16:58:17
you and aligns, with your values and your goals.

00:16:58:17 - 00:17:01:00
And that's very important.

00:17:02:11 - 00:17:05:03
so what would you say

00:17:05:03 - 00:17:08:14
is the biggest lesson you learned through that process?

00:17:08:14 - 00:17:11:14
How long did it take?

00:17:12:02 - 00:17:12:22
well, not very well.

00:17:12:22 - 00:17:15:22
I don't remember exactly, but,

00:17:16:20 - 00:17:20:16
I think the whole the whole negotiation process only took a few months.

00:17:20:22 - 00:17:21:24
Oh. That's fast.

00:17:21:24 - 00:17:23:23
Yeah, but it went fairly quickly.

00:17:23:23 - 00:17:29:07
And then then we had to wait a year after that until, until the divorce was final.

00:17:29:20 - 00:17:30:02
yeah.

00:17:30:02 - 00:17:33:02
That's normal, but negotiation was down fairly.

00:17:33:06 - 00:17:36:06
Yeah. Quickly. Yeah.

00:17:36:11 - 00:17:39:11
what would you say is the biggest mistake

00:17:39:12 - 00:17:42:24
you made during that negotiation process

00:17:42:24 - 00:17:46:05
other than hiring a lawyer, which was not,

00:17:47:08 - 00:17:49:11
too aggressive?

00:17:49:11 - 00:17:53:02
Well, one thing I didn't know until after everything was signed

00:17:53:02 - 00:17:56:05
is that that the father's entitled to half the time.

00:17:58:01 - 00:17:59:18
which

00:17:59:18 - 00:18:02:05
I got more than half of the waking time,

00:18:02:05 - 00:18:06:08
but one less, one less night, which,

00:18:08:16 - 00:18:11:16
made me.

00:18:11:17 - 00:18:13:06
Have to pay more money.

00:18:13:06 - 00:18:17:09
Because it's based on how many nights they stay with one parent and the other end.

00:18:17:09 - 00:18:18:06
Right. Okay, so.

00:18:18:06 - 00:18:21:06
So that's something that my lawyer didn't tell me, but but,

00:18:22:07 - 00:18:24:02
my ex-wife did know that.

00:18:24:02 - 00:18:29:20
So she negotiated hard to get, to get one extra night with the kids. and.

00:18:29:20 - 00:18:32:09
So you to child support.

00:18:32:09 - 00:18:33:09
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

00:18:33:09 - 00:18:35:22
Because of because of that. So.

00:18:35:22 - 00:18:39:00
So when we were negotiating for time,

00:18:39:00 - 00:18:43:07
I thought I had won that, that battle because I had more waking time I got.

00:18:43:15 - 00:18:48:09
Yeah, I got one more, more, dinner with the kids than what she did.

00:18:48:09 - 00:18:50:04
So I felt like I had one. Yeah.

00:18:50:04 - 00:18:54:06
Until we realized, you know, after everything was signed.

00:18:54:06 - 00:18:56:14
That's the reason I was paying so much.

00:18:56:14 - 00:19:00:06
child support is because she has one more, one more.

00:19:00:15 - 00:19:01:18
night. Night with. The.

00:19:01:18 - 00:19:05:09
Yeah, but winning or losing, it's all relatives, right?

00:19:05:09 - 00:19:07:17
Yeah, yeah. So I still I still did.

00:19:07:17 - 00:19:08:22
Yeah. Get what I want.

00:19:08:22 - 00:19:11:15
I had more time with the kids. Exactly. Yeah. It's.

00:19:11:15 - 00:19:12:15
I guess it's worth the money.

00:19:12:15 - 00:19:15:15
Yeah, yeah. And especially when we think about,

00:19:16:17 - 00:19:19:06
your biggest fear at the time, take the step.

00:19:19:06 - 00:19:22:06
It's losing quality time and access

00:19:22:13 - 00:19:25:11
to your kids, which you didn't.

00:19:25:11 - 00:19:28:11
And that fear, like you said,

00:19:28:11 - 00:19:31:20
was didn't have legs ultimately.

00:19:31:20 - 00:19:34:06
And even though. Yeah, maybe you pay a little bit.

00:19:34:06 - 00:19:35:16
No, I don't know how much.

00:19:35:16 - 00:19:39:20
A little bit a lot like depends on how you look at money.

00:19:39:20 - 00:19:46:07
But ultimately it's, it's a win because you get to spend time

00:19:46:17 - 00:19:49:21
with your daughters quality time too. And,

00:19:51:17 - 00:19:52:16
yeah.

00:19:52:16 - 00:19:55:16
Awesome. So.

00:19:55:18 - 00:19:59:09
I, I want to go back to this a little bit.

00:19:59:18 - 00:20:01:14
You said

00:20:01:14 - 00:20:03:17
that one year you spend

00:20:03:17 - 00:20:06:09
still trying to save your marriage, basically.

00:20:06:09 - 00:20:07:13
Okay.

00:20:07:13 - 00:20:11:22
you said I, I realized I basically this is not what I want.

00:20:11:22 - 00:20:14:03
I'm fighting for something I didn't want.

00:20:14:03 - 00:20:17:10
Tell me about that realization. Okay.

00:20:19:03 - 00:20:19:19
Yeah. So.

00:20:19:19 - 00:20:24:14
So after my wife found out about the affair, I cut off the affair.

00:20:24:22 - 00:20:26:22
I did see,

00:20:26:22 - 00:20:29:22
her again.

00:20:30:09 - 00:20:33:09
And, you know, we went into counseling, I.

00:20:33:10 - 00:20:36:10
Yeah, I spent a year,

00:20:37:08 - 00:20:39:03
first sleeping at my mother's house

00:20:39:03 - 00:20:42:03
and then sleeping in separate beds.

00:20:43:00 - 00:20:46:00
and, you know, going to counseling.

00:20:47:22 - 00:20:51:00
and. Yeah.

00:20:51:00 - 00:20:56:01
Really, really trying hard to, you know, say all the right things to to.

00:20:56:07 - 00:20:57:22
Yeah.

00:20:57:22 - 00:20:59:07
Be the person.

00:20:59:07 - 00:20:59:16
Yeah.

00:20:59:16 - 00:21:02:16
To be a committed husband.

00:21:03:00 - 00:21:06:00
but, you know, still still with the wrong person.

00:21:06:15 - 00:21:08:01
That's, Yeah.

00:21:08:01 - 00:21:11:01
So it, it was a, it was a difficult year.

00:21:12:16 - 00:21:15:16
For sure difficult in one sense.

00:21:17:11 - 00:21:19:02
difficult I guess

00:21:19:02 - 00:21:22:02
emotionally I was, I was feeling guilty.

00:21:23:04 - 00:21:26:09
for for most of the time that year for you know,

00:21:27:15 - 00:21:28:13
you know, having

00:21:29:21 - 00:21:32:21
having had an affair,

00:21:34:05 - 00:21:35:14
and yeah.

00:21:35:14 - 00:21:38:14
Not really having anyone to,

00:21:38:21 - 00:21:41:21
to, you know.

00:21:42:23 - 00:21:44:09
Be on my side.

00:21:44:09 - 00:21:45:23
other than my mom was on my side.

00:21:45:23 - 00:21:49:00
That was, you know, she was she was always in my corner.

00:21:49:08 - 00:21:51:13
But, it's also difficult.

00:21:51:13 - 00:21:54:13
I was in a church community at the time who,

00:21:55:20 - 00:21:59:14
churches can be very judgmental, and, and I kind of lost that,

00:21:59:21 - 00:22:03:04
the circle, that circle of friends,

00:22:04:08 - 00:22:08:06
that, that had been a part of my life, you know, since I was a kid.

00:22:08:23 - 00:22:11:23
And, yeah.

00:22:12:07 - 00:22:16:11
When things get really tough, I guess you realize who, who your real friends are.

00:22:16:19 - 00:22:18:20
And, I know me.

00:22:18:20 - 00:22:23:14
Some, some of the people who I really thought were were friends.

00:22:24:03 - 00:22:26:03
definitely weren't,

00:22:26:03 - 00:22:29:03
And, and,

00:22:31:12 - 00:22:33:00
It's similar to

00:22:33:00 - 00:22:37:01
when you, go through this divorce journey and the marriage, too.

00:22:37:02 - 00:22:37:09
Right?

00:22:37:09 - 00:22:41:04
And you start, you start to look at all of the relationship around you and

00:22:41:05 - 00:22:46:17
and realize, oh, okay, not only my marriage wasn't maybe good.

00:22:46:23 - 00:22:50:04
And you look around, it's like you start to look at other,

00:22:50:13 - 00:22:52:06
other relationships as well.

00:22:52:06 - 00:22:53:15
The qualities of that,

00:22:55:00 - 00:22:58:00
the guilty talk about is,

00:22:58:06 - 00:23:01:06
the idea that I shouldn't have had an affair.

00:23:02:09 - 00:23:06:00
what about other emotions as you were trying to make

00:23:06:00 - 00:23:09:24
this marriage work, but realizing, oh, no, it's not working.

00:23:09:24 - 00:23:11:22
This is not what I wanted.

00:23:11:22 - 00:23:14:13
What are what what did you feel there?

00:23:14:13 - 00:23:15:15
Was there guilt?

00:23:15:15 - 00:23:18:04
And was there something else?

00:23:18:04 - 00:23:18:13
Well, a.

00:23:18:13 - 00:23:20:15
Lot of loneliness.

00:23:20:15 - 00:23:23:15
I think,

00:23:24:06 - 00:23:27:04
probably the loneliest I've ever been in my life. Was.

00:23:27:04 - 00:23:29:16
Was when I was married.

00:23:29:16 - 00:23:32:20
you know, after I found, after I was,

00:23:34:14 - 00:23:37:14
after I was single again.

00:23:38:17 - 00:23:40:13
you know, I could meet lots of people.

00:23:40:13 - 00:23:43:21
I had a social life again. But,

00:23:47:19 - 00:23:48:00
Yeah.

00:23:48:00 - 00:23:49:11
Being.

00:23:49:11 - 00:23:52:18
I guess it's ironic because a lot of people get married to,

00:23:53:09 - 00:23:55:23
to, to not be lonely, to have someone,

00:23:57:12 - 00:23:59:17
you know, to fill a void.

00:23:59:17 - 00:24:01:15
but, Yeah.

00:24:01:15 - 00:24:05:15
Being in a bad marriage, it's, it's probably the loneliest,

00:24:06:14 - 00:24:09:14
possible thing that, that

00:24:09:15 - 00:24:10:02
that you can.

00:24:10:02 - 00:24:11:14
One can experience. Yourself in.

00:24:11:14 - 00:24:14:14
Yeah. Yeah.

00:24:14:16 - 00:24:20:03
That's a big one. So.

00:24:25:10 - 00:24:28:10
I want to ask it because

00:24:28:20 - 00:24:31:20
there was it's

00:24:31:20 - 00:24:34:20
how do I, how do I ask this question. So.

00:24:37:17 - 00:24:40:02
Affair is not uncommon.

00:24:40:02 - 00:24:43:05
It seems like there is more and more and more.

00:24:43:11 - 00:24:45:04
Oh let me ask you this question.

00:24:45:04 - 00:24:47:19
Okay.

00:24:47:19 - 00:24:49:00
What do you think.

00:24:49:00 - 00:24:52:00
Do you think?

00:24:53:01 - 00:24:54:22
When you had the affair,

00:24:54:22 - 00:24:58:17
were you running away from the marriage

00:24:58:17 - 00:25:01:17
or were you running toward the

00:25:02:01 - 00:25:05:01
this new relationship?

00:25:07:05 - 00:25:09:17
that's a great question.

00:25:09:17 - 00:25:12:04
I've never really thought about it in, in that term

00:25:12:04 - 00:25:15:04
before.

00:25:15:10 - 00:25:18:09
the way I, I kind of always thought about it as

00:25:19:18 - 00:25:20:00
being

00:25:20:00 - 00:25:23:15
in that marriage was really bad for my self-esteem. And,

00:25:25:02 - 00:25:28:02
you know, the way I psychoanalyzed myself after

00:25:28:02 - 00:25:31:02
after all this was over, was that,

00:25:33:11 - 00:25:35:01
what that

00:25:35:01 - 00:25:40:02
what that, affair gave me was a lot of ego boost.

00:25:40:20 - 00:25:43:17
so all of a sudden, I found someone who.

00:25:43:17 - 00:25:46:12
Who actually liked me, who wanted to be with me,

00:25:46:12 - 00:25:49:12
who who was giving me, you know, the attention.

00:25:49:12 - 00:25:52:20
The, you know, the verbal affirmations, the,

00:25:52:20 - 00:25:55:22
you know, the positivity that that I wasn't getting at home.

00:25:56:14 - 00:25:59:20
And, Yeah.

00:25:59:20 - 00:26:02:14
So that,

00:26:02:14 - 00:26:05:06
that's.

00:26:05:06 - 00:26:08:06
Probably why I did what I did,

00:26:08:08 - 00:26:11:10
so, Is that just, Yeah.

00:26:11:10 - 00:26:14:10
It, it filled the need that,

00:26:14:16 - 00:26:17:13
you know, and I wasn't thinking that way.

00:26:17:13 - 00:26:17:21
Of course.

00:26:17:21 - 00:26:23:03
I'm just, you know, you know, the emotions of how this is true love.

00:26:23:03 - 00:26:25:15
This is, this is Yeah.

00:26:27:05 - 00:26:29:07
Yeah.

00:26:29:07 - 00:26:29:14
Yeah.

00:26:29:14 - 00:26:32:14
I've finally found my soulmate. yeah.

00:26:33:00 - 00:26:35:21
So that's

00:26:35:21 - 00:26:38:21
But but maybe that wasn't true at the time.

00:26:39:06 - 00:26:42:06
I was going to ask was it true love.

00:26:43:23 - 00:26:45:22
There was definitely love there.

00:26:45:22 - 00:26:48:23
like that stronger love than what I ever had

00:26:48:23 - 00:26:51:23
for my wife.

00:26:52:09 - 00:26:53:16
so, so yeah,

00:26:53:16 - 00:26:56:16
I would say it was, it was true.

00:26:58:09 - 00:27:01:09
That that relationship has ended. And,

00:27:02:10 - 00:27:05:10
you know, for, for different reasons.

00:27:06:19 - 00:27:10:00
But, but, yeah, I still,

00:27:10:00 - 00:27:13:07
I still respect and care for, for her as well.

00:27:14:01 - 00:27:15:18
even though I found out

00:27:15:18 - 00:27:18:19
that we're less compatible than than what we thought we were.

00:27:19:14 - 00:27:21:22
Way back then.

00:27:21:22 - 00:27:24:09
But, but yeah I think, I think there was,

00:27:24:09 - 00:27:27:09
it was true up there.

00:27:28:05 - 00:27:30:13
So what would you answer the question.

00:27:30:13 - 00:27:34:14
Were you running away from them from the marriage or wanting to running toward.

00:27:35:01 - 00:27:37:07
Or is it maybe half and half.

00:27:37:07 - 00:27:38:22
Or maybe maybe half and half.

00:27:38:22 - 00:27:40:10
I don't think there's really an.

00:27:40:10 - 00:27:43:04
Appetite for your. Answer. For that.

00:27:45:12 - 00:27:48:07
So what would you,

00:27:48:07 - 00:27:52:15
what advice would you give to a person who.

00:27:54:18 - 00:27:57:03
Is in a marriage.

00:27:57:03 - 00:28:01:11
maybe not so fulfilling and satisfying.

00:28:02:08 - 00:28:05:22
maybe they are thinking, oh, is this the marriage that I want to stay?

00:28:05:22 - 00:28:07:14
Is this person?

00:28:07:14 - 00:28:10:14
And, maybe

00:28:11:03 - 00:28:14:03
there may be even opportunity for them to,

00:28:14:13 - 00:28:16:23
quote unquote, would have an affair.

00:28:16:23 - 00:28:19:06
what would what advice would you give them?

00:28:19:06 - 00:28:21:24
I would say first,

00:28:21:24 - 00:28:26:11
first and foremost, just be brave and talk to your partner.

00:28:26:11 - 00:28:31:05
Say life partner, I mean your current spouse, and say, hey,

00:28:31:05 - 00:28:35:19
this this is what I'm feeling, but I mean, not the, not the person you're ready to

00:28:37:08 - 00:28:37:23
get married.

00:28:37:23 - 00:28:40:05
Good clarification.

00:28:40:05 - 00:28:43:18
And, so, so talk to your husband

00:28:43:18 - 00:28:46:18
or wife or partner.

00:28:47:03 - 00:28:49:02
and, you know, be very clear.

00:28:49:02 - 00:28:50:16
Say, say I'm unhappy,

00:28:52:11 - 00:28:55:11
with the way things are, and tell them

00:28:56:12 - 00:28:59:12
your reasons.

00:29:02:18 - 00:29:03:19
And see

00:29:03:19 - 00:29:06:23
if see if it's something you can fix.

00:29:06:23 - 00:29:11:02
And, you know, look inside yourself, see if it's something that you want to fix.

00:29:12:00 - 00:29:14:10
And if it is, give that a shot first.

00:29:14:10 - 00:29:17:10
And if that doesn't work, then.

00:29:17:14 - 00:29:18:00
Yeah.

00:29:18:00 - 00:29:21:00
And find a good lawyer.

00:29:23:03 - 00:29:26:03
I think that lessons and,

00:29:26:10 - 00:29:30:04
in, in, in my case, in my,

00:29:30:15 - 00:29:33:15
divorce and, there's this,

00:29:35:03 - 00:29:37:17
infidelity on the, on the other side.

00:29:37:17 - 00:29:42:21
So I studied it a lot and, and read all the books I could get my hands on.

00:29:44:03 - 00:29:47:19
I think the idea that you're suggesting is that no matter what happens,

00:29:47:19 - 00:29:48:12
what do you choose?

00:29:48:12 - 00:29:51:23
Stay in the marriage or leave the marriage or whatever.

00:29:51:23 - 00:29:54:18
Even, having an affair. That's your choice.

00:29:54:18 - 00:29:57:24
It's really ultimately, you need to figure out

00:29:58:16 - 00:30:02:22
what what do you want and what's fulfilling for you

00:30:03:09 - 00:30:07:03
right before I think you kept saying I wasn't happy

00:30:07:07 - 00:30:10:11
and my ex told me, I haven't been happy for a long time.

00:30:10:17 - 00:30:11:02
Okay.

00:30:12:02 - 00:30:15:00
I was shocked, but,

00:30:15:00 - 00:30:17:12
the idea that

00:30:17:12 - 00:30:21:18
that we hinge our happiness on the other person is just not a good idea.

00:30:22:02 - 00:30:24:16
Yeah. What do you say that. I would say that. Yeah.

00:30:24:16 - 00:30:27:16
I think you need to find happiness in yourself first.

00:30:29:14 - 00:30:30:06
before.

00:30:30:06 - 00:30:33:00
Before you can be happy in a relationship.

00:30:33:00 - 00:30:36:00
Yeah. But,

00:30:36:00 - 00:30:36:12
Yeah. Yeah.

00:30:36:12 - 00:30:41:11
But yeah, it's, it's hard to do that if, Yeah things are bad.

00:30:41:22 - 00:30:44:13
And you don't know.

00:30:44:13 - 00:30:46:00
Yes. And things.

00:30:46:00 - 00:30:49:03
Yes. And, and you didn't feel like you have any support.

00:30:49:03 - 00:30:52:11
And I remember after my ex,

00:30:54:08 - 00:30:56:01
disclosed that,

00:30:56:01 - 00:30:59:14
his infidelity, he was like, I, I who do I talk to?

00:30:59:15 - 00:31:01:15
I didn't have anyone I could talk to.

00:31:01:15 - 00:31:03:03
I think

00:31:03:03 - 00:31:06:03
whether I talk to a therapist at like a third

00:31:06:08 - 00:31:09:08
unrelated party, it's it's, if you have some

00:31:09:15 - 00:31:10:20
if you're

00:31:10:20 - 00:31:14:07
in this kind of relationship affair or if you're considering talking to

00:31:14:07 - 00:31:18:24
someone who's not related to anything, or your circle could be really helpful,

00:31:18:24 - 00:31:20:19
whatever that is. Sometimes it could be,

00:31:22:06 - 00:31:26:05
and an elderly or someone from the church

00:31:26:05 - 00:31:29:07
and it could be someone you can trust them.

00:31:30:03 - 00:31:31:02
thank you for sharing that.

00:31:31:02 - 00:31:34:02
I know that's that that that's that's that's hard.

00:31:34:02 - 00:31:39:05
It's also I want to touch on that because I know it's it's so common infidelity.

00:31:39:05 - 00:31:44:08
And in today's world and I think we, we should, we should talk about it.

00:31:44:21 - 00:31:47:21
We shouldn't pretend it doesn't exist. We,

00:31:48:17 - 00:31:51:17
we also shouldn't just condemn the person who,

00:31:53:05 - 00:31:55:09
you know, commit,

00:31:55:09 - 00:31:56:21
commit even the word I'm using.

00:31:56:21 - 00:31:59:03
You're committing an affair.

00:31:59:03 - 00:32:01:08
is that we're all human.

00:32:01:08 - 00:32:04:18
Like anyone could be put into that position and make that decision.

00:32:04:23 - 00:32:05:07
Right?

00:32:05:07 - 00:32:08:17
And, it's like pointing fingers and not the right way.

00:32:09:16 - 00:32:12:01
so thank you for sharing that.

00:32:12:01 - 00:32:14:24
so the divorce came along

00:32:14:24 - 00:32:18:16
and how did the kids transition into two households?

00:32:20:04 - 00:32:20:13
Really?

00:32:20:13 - 00:32:23:13
Well, actually.

00:32:23:24 - 00:32:26:24
hey, so the most dramatic moment,

00:32:28:13 - 00:32:30:18
actually wasn't when we decided to get divorced.

00:32:30:18 - 00:32:33:16
It was,

00:32:33:16 - 00:32:35:11
When,

00:32:35:11 - 00:32:37:24
Well, basically, when,

00:32:37:24 - 00:32:40:01
their mom found out about the affair

00:32:40:01 - 00:32:43:01
and I got kicked out of the house, basically.

00:32:43:09 - 00:32:47:13
And there was a lot of emotion at that at that time.

00:32:48:15 - 00:32:52:07
And we told the kids in the midst of

00:32:52:21 - 00:32:56:01
of all that emotion, and they cried.

00:32:56:01 - 00:32:58:02
And it was.

00:32:58:02 - 00:33:00:18
Yeah, it was that was a scene.

00:33:00:18 - 00:33:02:21
And that was very difficult to that.

00:33:02:21 - 00:33:06:09
We did that in the wrong way. But,

00:33:08:11 - 00:33:11:11
you know, a year later when we decided to,

00:33:11:13 - 00:33:14:13
to actually get a divorce,

00:33:15:04 - 00:33:18:02
we told them, yeah,

00:33:18:02 - 00:33:21:02
in a, you know, in a more controlled way and.

00:33:21:12 - 00:33:23:11
regulate it away. Yeah, yeah.

00:33:23:11 - 00:33:27:22
And intentionally and explained how things were going to work

00:33:27:22 - 00:33:31:19
and that they would still be loved and cared for and,

00:33:32:24 - 00:33:35:24
have two homes and,

00:33:36:24 - 00:33:37:20
that wasn't,

00:33:37:20 - 00:33:41:04
that wasn't, as hard a transition for them.

00:33:41:04 - 00:33:44:13
They, you know, I, I asked,

00:33:45:18 - 00:33:48:06
my oldest daughter recently.

00:33:48:06 - 00:33:48:21
yeah.

00:33:48:21 - 00:33:52:17
What she thinks of her life and the way things are actually say, oh, great.

00:33:52:17 - 00:33:57:04
I get two Christmases, you know, celebrate, celebrate my birthday twice.

00:33:57:09 - 00:33:58:17
Twice as many presents.

00:33:58:17 - 00:34:02:20
And so, you know, and I know that's a very superficial thing, but, yeah,

00:34:02:21 - 00:34:05:24
she was saying that kind of sincerely and and.

00:34:06:00 - 00:34:06:12
Yeah.

00:34:06:12 - 00:34:09:19
She feels supported and loved given the two households.

00:34:09:24 - 00:34:10:20
yeah. Both houses.

00:34:10:20 - 00:34:13:20
She's she's happy.

00:34:14:22 - 00:34:17:23
That really just shows that even, you know, when divorce happens,

00:34:17:23 - 00:34:21:03
if two parents can be supportive and truly and the law says

00:34:21:03 - 00:34:24:03
you should put their interests, your children's interests

00:34:24:15 - 00:34:28:08
as top priority, but when in reality it's not always the case,

00:34:28:16 - 00:34:32:15
but when parents actually can do that, it can really,

00:34:33:17 - 00:34:34:16
despite the divorce,

00:34:34:16 - 00:34:37:16
can help the kids not only survive, but thrive.

00:34:37:18 - 00:34:40:18
And if both parents play

00:34:40:18 - 00:34:43:23
as a team on the parenting front, well,

00:34:43:23 - 00:34:47:19
that they can put aside whatever their disagreements are.

00:34:48:04 - 00:34:51:02
So yeah, awesome.

00:34:51:02 - 00:34:52:15
What are difficult?

00:34:52:15 - 00:34:55:14
Were there moments of challenge, though, in

00:34:55:14 - 00:34:58:14
co-parenting?

00:35:01:14 - 00:35:05:07
A you yeah, it's always the, yeah.

00:35:05:16 - 00:35:09:23
When you have to contact your, your ex and, you know, now this is,

00:35:10:12 - 00:35:13:12
sometimes always yeah.

00:35:13:21 - 00:35:17:10
Yeah, it feels like a bit of a drag sometimes.

00:35:18:03 - 00:35:18:22
to communicate.

00:35:18:22 - 00:35:21:09
Yeah. but, yeah, you just.

00:35:21:09 - 00:35:21:17
Yeah.

00:35:21:17 - 00:35:22:08
Like the bullet.

00:35:22:08 - 00:35:25:08
And this is. This is for the kids.

00:35:25:20 - 00:35:26:03
Yeah.

00:35:26:03 - 00:35:30:24
Well, being in you, you do that, you know, go to medical appointments

00:35:30:24 - 00:35:33:24
together if, if need be.

00:35:35:07 - 00:35:37:11
and some.

00:35:37:11 - 00:35:39:11
Yeah. I think sometimes yeah.

00:35:39:11 - 00:35:42:22
The financial thing is what's the hardest is.

00:35:42:23 - 00:35:46:21
Yeah, I, I extended myself is absolutely as far as I could

00:35:47:22 - 00:35:48:10
and then when

00:35:48:10 - 00:35:51:18
their extra little, little payment expenses.

00:35:51:21 - 00:35:52:10
Yeah.

00:35:52:10 - 00:35:57:13
The dental, the braces that, that sort of thing on top of expensive,

00:35:58:00 - 00:36:01:00
child support that, that feels like,

00:36:03:01 - 00:36:03:18
compounded.

00:36:03:18 - 00:36:04:15
It. Yes.

00:36:04:15 - 00:36:07:15
You have. Yeah. That's difficult.

00:36:08:01 - 00:36:11:01
but, yeah, that's only money, you.

00:36:11:09 - 00:36:11:18
Know.

00:36:11:18 - 00:36:14:15
You get through it. Yeah.

00:36:14:15 - 00:36:14:21
Yeah.

00:36:14:21 - 00:36:16:20
Work hard.

00:36:16:20 - 00:36:19:20
I guess the question I know some of my clients would ask like

00:36:19:20 - 00:36:22:20
how many bullets do you have to fight though.

00:36:23:22 - 00:36:24:17
What, what.

00:36:24:17 - 00:36:26:15
Yeah.

00:36:26:15 - 00:36:27:01
yeah.

00:36:27:01 - 00:36:32:19
But how do you on the emotional front like kind of I mean eight years later

00:36:32:19 - 00:36:36:13
probably you went through a lot of inner dialog and trying to calm yourself down.

00:36:36:13 - 00:36:38:21
Probably your spiritual pursuits too.

00:36:38:21 - 00:36:41:10
That helps. And,

00:36:41:10 - 00:36:42:20
how did you get your,

00:36:42:20 - 00:36:46:08
your yourself to a place to be like, oh, you know, it's just money.

00:36:46:14 - 00:36:49:05
I know it's easy to say, but it's it's hard.

00:36:49:05 - 00:36:49:12
Yeah.

00:36:51:21 - 00:36:52:00
yeah.

00:36:52:00 - 00:36:55:00
I think that's maybe more in my personal journey.

00:36:55:11 - 00:36:58:06
that, I think

00:36:58:06 - 00:37:00:21
yoga has helped a lot with that. yeah.

00:37:00:21 - 00:37:03:12
Everybody do yoga? Yeah. Eastern light.

00:37:03:12 - 00:37:06:00
And by yoga, I don't mean the the asana practice.

00:37:06:00 - 00:37:07:17
You know, you're going to exercise.

00:37:07:17 - 00:37:12:05
Yeah, that not as exercise, but, the grander sort of.

00:37:12:08 - 00:37:13:15
Of meditation.

00:37:13:15 - 00:37:17:13
Philosophy and, you know, detaching yourself from,

00:37:18:05 - 00:37:21:09
from caring so much about, material possessions,

00:37:22:03 - 00:37:25:11
realizing that that the world around us isn't,

00:37:26:22 - 00:37:27:19
isn't what's real.

00:37:27:19 - 00:37:30:19
What's real is what's inside the permanent,

00:37:30:19 - 00:37:33:12
part of the person.

00:37:33:12 - 00:37:36:12
And, and really working and,

00:37:38:19 - 00:37:40:12
On your self,

00:37:40:12 - 00:37:43:21
the permanent part of yourself is, is more important than.

00:37:44:00 - 00:37:47:00
Yeah, how much money you have at the end of the year.

00:37:47:02 - 00:37:48:18
How much you save and.

00:37:48:18 - 00:37:50:01
Yeah.

00:37:50:01 - 00:37:52:03
Of detached detaching is hard.

00:37:53:07 - 00:37:54:18
not letting go peace.

00:37:54:18 - 00:37:59:01
But super empowering and freeing when you can realize

00:37:59:01 - 00:38:02:01
it's like oh it's just money or.

00:38:03:02 - 00:38:04:01
It's not all of.

00:38:04:01 - 00:38:06:00
The lawyers stop working right now.

00:38:06:00 - 00:38:07:09
Because of all.

00:38:07:09 - 00:38:08:02
You know, imagine what a.

00:38:08:02 - 00:38:10:04
Peaceful protest.

00:38:10:04 - 00:38:13:07
Yes. Just go sit down and meditate.

00:38:13:13 - 00:38:14:16
Very few of us are there.

00:38:14:16 - 00:38:15:19
I'm not there yet.

00:38:15:19 - 00:38:18:00
Yeah. And yeah, yeah, I'm working.

00:38:18:00 - 00:38:18:17
Working on it.

00:38:18:17 - 00:38:19:18
It's a long journey.

00:38:19:18 - 00:38:21:21
Yeah. Long journey. Yeah. It's like a long journey.

00:38:21:21 - 00:38:23:04
Many lifelong.

00:38:23:04 - 00:38:24:15
Many lives. Yeah.

00:38:24:15 - 00:38:27:12
So I, I love you emphasize like ultimately the

00:38:27:12 - 00:38:32:04
the bullets you bite in communicating with your ex and co-parenting

00:38:32:04 - 00:38:36:16
ultimately it's, it's how do you work on your inner self.

00:38:37:11 - 00:38:38:22
where can you find peace?

00:38:38:22 - 00:38:43:13
How can you find peace regardless of how the other person act or react?

00:38:43:13 - 00:38:46:00
And, that's, that's the real work

00:38:47:07 - 00:38:50:07
is, what I'm hearing.

00:38:50:11 - 00:38:53:11
how how about post divorce?

00:38:53:11 - 00:38:54:18
recovery?

00:38:54:18 - 00:38:56:17
And you said you ended with the fear.

00:38:56:17 - 00:38:58:11
And how did that come about?

00:38:58:11 - 00:39:01:23
And did you did you guys. Yeah.

00:39:01:23 - 00:39:05:07
Well, once we decided to get divorced, I, I started seeing,

00:39:06:17 - 00:39:09:17
her again, and.

00:39:10:06 - 00:39:13:06
Yeah, that was that was fun.

00:39:14:04 - 00:39:16:11
you know,

00:39:16:11 - 00:39:17:07
later, we.

00:39:17:07 - 00:39:20:01
Yeah, we decided we weren't on the same path.

00:39:20:01 - 00:39:23:01
She was, you know, from a very,

00:39:23:03 - 00:39:24:15
conservative Christian home.

00:39:24:15 - 00:39:28:14
And I was doing a lot of different spiritual practices,

00:39:29:11 - 00:39:33:03
Reiki and, past life regressions and,

00:39:33:16 - 00:39:36:22
you know, I, I took that class in,

00:39:37:17 - 00:39:41:19
in becoming a medium and that, I think scared,

00:39:42:03 - 00:39:46:13
scared her and was, a big factor in ending that relationship.

00:39:46:14 - 00:39:48:18
What's what's become a medium.

00:39:48:18 - 00:39:51:07
A medium like, Well, what?

00:39:51:07 - 00:39:52:13
My mother passed away.

00:39:53:14 - 00:39:55:10
and I wanted to be able to

00:39:55:10 - 00:39:59:04
medium a medium as someone who could talk to to,

00:40:00:06 - 00:40:01:07
people from.

00:40:01:07 - 00:40:03:12
Their past.

00:40:03:12 - 00:40:05:06
It's a, it's a training. You did I.

00:40:05:06 - 00:40:07:04
Did a training. Yeah. Okay.

00:40:07:04 - 00:40:08:04
Okay.

00:40:08:04 - 00:40:09:02
Thanks. Yeah.

00:40:09:02 - 00:40:12:02
Out of interest sake and

00:40:12:06 - 00:40:14:02
yeah that was part of my journey

00:40:14:02 - 00:40:17:11
and my grieving process after, after my mom passed away.

00:40:18:05 - 00:40:22:20
But Yeah, the the lady I was with it.

00:40:23:05 - 00:40:25:05
Yep. Didn't,

00:40:25:05 - 00:40:28:05
see that as being

00:40:28:20 - 00:40:29:22
something that should be done.

00:40:29:22 - 00:40:32:22
She had a very, you know,

00:40:34:08 - 00:40:37:08
Very black and white view of the Bible and,

00:40:38:07 - 00:40:39:15
That was. Yeah.

00:40:39:15 - 00:40:43:02
Considered maybe, maybe evil or dangerous.

00:40:43:11 - 00:40:44:22
In her mind.

00:40:44:22 - 00:40:47:16
And a few other things that so yeah.

00:40:47:16 - 00:40:50:16
Ultimately after after three years,

00:40:52:15 - 00:40:55:15
we, we stopped seeing each other.

00:40:57:03 - 00:40:58:05
So again

00:40:58:05 - 00:41:01:08
some value this alignment there and that on.

00:41:01:20 - 00:41:02:03
Okay.

00:41:02:03 - 00:41:04:22
This is I have to ask were you able to talk to your mom.

00:41:07:01 - 00:41:07:14
Yeah.

00:41:07:14 - 00:41:08:09
Yeah.

00:41:08:09 - 00:41:12:09
so, so yeah that's, that was a very real thing.

00:41:12:09 - 00:41:15:10
And It's not, it's not like,

00:41:15:10 - 00:41:18:12
you know, you and me sitting in and having a conversation.

00:41:18:12 - 00:41:20:19
It's a very,

00:41:20:19 - 00:41:22:04
you know, it takes time.

00:41:22:04 - 00:41:25:04
It takes discipline.

00:41:26:13 - 00:41:28:23
And, and and practice.

00:41:28:23 - 00:41:31:23
And you just have to be silent and listen.

00:41:32:05 - 00:41:33:12
yeah. That's that's that's.

00:41:33:12 - 00:41:34:20
Possible.

00:41:34:20 - 00:41:35:21
Thank you for sharing.

00:41:35:21 - 00:41:37:22
My God you are full of surprises.

00:41:37:22 - 00:41:42:24
This and I went to to your home is like oh there's a piano to play.

00:41:42:24 - 00:41:46:04
Piano. Yes I do. There's so many guitars.

00:41:46:04 - 00:41:46:20
You play guitar.

00:41:46:20 - 00:41:49:20
Yes I do. Okay.

00:41:50:08 - 00:41:52:09
Got a lot of hobbies.

00:41:52:09 - 00:41:54:18
That's awesome.

00:41:54:18 - 00:41:55:20
thank you for sharing that.

00:41:55:20 - 00:41:58:20
So in terms, post divorce,

00:41:59:17 - 00:42:03:00
recovery, this journey to find yourself again

00:42:03:05 - 00:42:07:14
and who you are and what do you want in life, how did that come about?

00:42:07:14 - 00:42:12:01
It sounds like you're being consciously working on that.

00:42:12:06 - 00:42:13:06
Yeah. Well, sometimes.

00:42:13:06 - 00:42:16:05
Sometimes consciously, sometimes not.

00:42:16:05 - 00:42:17:08
awesome.

00:42:17:08 - 00:42:18:20
Where are you in life?

00:42:18:20 - 00:42:21:06
And other than, other than that peace.

00:42:21:06 - 00:42:22:20
Your your daughters are doing well.

00:42:22:20 - 00:42:23:19
My daughters are doing,

00:42:25:21 - 00:42:26:02
yeah.

00:42:26:02 - 00:42:27:21
Like financially stable.

00:42:27:21 - 00:42:28:21
My businesses.

00:42:28:21 - 00:42:31:12
It's doing well. So.

00:42:31:12 - 00:42:34:04
So yeah. I'm I'm a nice.

00:42:34:04 - 00:42:34:21
That's fine.

00:42:34:21 - 00:42:37:21
Okay.

00:42:37:23 - 00:42:40:04
So awesome.

00:42:40:04 - 00:42:43:03
Thank you for sharing. And,

00:42:43:03 - 00:42:46:20
it seems to me that you.

00:42:47:13 - 00:42:49:23
You've been

00:42:49:23 - 00:42:52:05
seeking,

00:42:52:05 - 00:42:55:14
happiness, contentment, and ultimately love.

00:42:58:11 - 00:43:00:20
would you say

00:43:00:20 - 00:43:03:07
that's your that's your journey, and,

00:43:03:07 - 00:43:06:07
you are at this place?

00:43:08:01 - 00:43:09:03
no, I, I don't think I'm, like,

00:43:09:03 - 00:43:13:01
at the end of a road in, in the journey or anything, I think.

00:43:13:01 - 00:43:18:00
Yeah, life is, you know, you're always you're always improving.

00:43:18:00 - 00:43:21:00
You're always developing, learning something new.

00:43:21:24 - 00:43:24:03
So, so yeah there's, there's still a long.

00:43:24:03 - 00:43:25:08
Way to go.

00:43:25:08 - 00:43:28:08
I just a student of this life.

00:43:29:23 - 00:43:33:06
so to the audience who,

00:43:33:20 - 00:43:39:20
whether they're debating to leave or stay their marriage

00:43:40:17 - 00:43:43:05
because they're not happy and maybe they haven't

00:43:43:05 - 00:43:46:12
been happy for a long time, they felt this long loneliness

00:43:47:20 - 00:43:50:01
in this marriage.

00:43:50:01 - 00:43:52:07
Or someone who are going through this

00:43:52:07 - 00:43:56:05
divorce journey in the thick of divorce negotiation.

00:43:56:05 - 00:43:59:05
Things are getting ugly and real

00:44:00:06 - 00:44:03:06
and there is a lot of pain.

00:44:03:07 - 00:44:06:00
what advice would you give them?

00:44:06:00 - 00:44:06:10
Okay.

00:44:06:10 - 00:44:09:10
I guess it depends where they are.

00:44:10:14 - 00:44:13:11
I'd say if things are getting ugly,

00:44:13:11 - 00:44:17:12
I would say try to, you know, even though your, your

00:44:18:05 - 00:44:21:05
in the process of ending things, try to still,

00:44:24:06 - 00:44:27:06
Look at it as a partnership that,

00:44:27:18 - 00:44:30:18
You and your, your ex

00:44:31:04 - 00:44:33:09
are trying to do what's best for the kids.

00:44:33:09 - 00:44:36:03
Try to be,

00:44:36:03 - 00:44:39:03
the two of you against the problem.

00:44:40:15 - 00:44:40:23
Yeah.

00:44:40:23 - 00:44:42:16
Still, still look out for yourself.

00:44:42:16 - 00:44:46:22
Try to get the best the, the best deal that you can

00:44:47:23 - 00:44:51:22
but yeah you could communicate and be reasonable.

00:44:51:22 - 00:44:55:00
Try to not. Yeah. Yeah. Not

00:44:56:04 - 00:44:58:05
do anything

00:44:58:05 - 00:45:01:05
motivated by anger and.

00:45:01:22 - 00:45:02:18
Yeah.

00:45:02:18 - 00:45:04:09
And yeah it is frustrate.

00:45:04:09 - 00:45:06:13
Divorce is a really frustrating thing.

00:45:06:13 - 00:45:11:06
It feels like, you know, you're running into brick walls all the time.

00:45:11:06 - 00:45:14:06
Yeah. You know, you don't have enough,

00:45:14:12 - 00:45:16:17
you know, friends on your side. You.

00:45:16:17 - 00:45:17:04
Yeah.

00:45:17:04 - 00:45:18:23
You're losing friends. Yeah.

00:45:18:23 - 00:45:20:22
You're you're just so isolated.

00:45:20:22 - 00:45:21:23
You're just by yourself.

00:45:21:23 - 00:45:25:06
And, so. In this island and so. Yeah.

00:45:25:06 - 00:45:28:06
Yeah, just everything is drifting away.

00:45:28:11 - 00:45:30:09
For. Real. Right? When you're in that.

00:45:30:09 - 00:45:32:01
Yeah, yeah. You you.

00:45:32:01 - 00:45:33:15
And it's a big transition.

00:45:33:15 - 00:45:34:00
Huge.

00:45:34:00 - 00:45:38:16
But, Yeah, I think just just know that life gets, life gets better.

00:45:39:19 - 00:45:40:17
yeah. There.

00:45:40:17 - 00:45:43:01
You know, there's life after.

00:45:43:01 - 00:45:45:03
Life after. Yeah. Yeah yeah.

00:45:45:03 - 00:45:47:21
Life. That's right. Stuff.

00:45:47:21 - 00:45:50:15
Yeah. That's after. Okay.

00:45:50:15 - 00:45:54:04
I love the idea of to against the problem.

00:45:54:18 - 00:45:58:08
I think this is if, if everyone like if most people can get

00:45:59:03 - 00:46:01:18
here, I think we can go a long way.

00:46:03:03 - 00:46:03:21
I love that.

00:46:03:21 - 00:46:06:02
And I'm going to ask this question

00:46:06:02 - 00:46:09:02
because, you know, some of some, some of the clients will ask,

00:46:09:04 - 00:46:11:19
what if the other side

00:46:11:19 - 00:46:16:06
is not on the same page with you, with your philosophy or approach,

00:46:16:06 - 00:46:20:05
this collaborative approach that we're together against this problem?

00:46:21:15 - 00:46:25:16
what if they're super aggressive or, silent

00:46:26:04 - 00:46:29:04
and not really talking to you?

00:46:29:11 - 00:46:32:02
I don't know, I and

00:46:32:02 - 00:46:34:12
yeah.

00:46:34:12 - 00:46:37:01
I haven't been in,

00:46:37:01 - 00:46:40:02
but I have had a very silent, wife.

00:46:41:03 - 00:46:44:20
I thought, you know, that was more before we started this this process.

00:46:44:20 - 00:46:47:08
Yeah.

00:46:47:08 - 00:46:49:04
and I didn't figure that out.

00:46:49:04 - 00:46:52:19
You know, I, I would say do your best to talk to them.

00:46:54:07 - 00:46:56:03
And if you can't just, just do

00:46:56:03 - 00:46:59:08
the best that you can, you know, you try to be

00:47:00:10 - 00:47:02:05
your best self,

00:47:02:05 - 00:47:05:13
because you can't, you can never control another person.

00:47:05:19 - 00:47:09:12
you can't, you know, grab them by the shoulders and say, please love me.

00:47:09:15 - 00:47:12:10
No, no, no. Yeah. police work with, The.

00:47:12:10 - 00:47:16:10
you know, please think the best interests and, of the children and.

00:47:16:10 - 00:47:19:12
Yeah, you can never make another person be the person that you want them to be.

00:47:19:12 - 00:47:22:12
You can only be your best self.

00:47:22:18 - 00:47:25:14
And I think I think when you're

00:47:25:14 - 00:47:28:16
working on being your best self than than your best part.

00:47:28:16 - 00:47:30:07
Now show up.

00:47:30:07 - 00:47:31:17
Oh my God.

00:47:31:17 - 00:47:33:22
Drop the knife.

00:47:33:22 - 00:47:36:21
This is this clearly and awesome.

00:47:36:21 - 00:47:39:21
Thank you so much Jeff for just sharing so vulnerably.

00:47:39:24 - 00:47:42:24
I know this can be hard to share.

00:47:42:24 - 00:47:44:23
super

00:47:44:23 - 00:47:49:12
happy and inspired by this new journey you are about to embark on.

00:47:50:01 - 00:47:51:14
And, so.

00:47:51:14 - 00:47:54:09
And thanks again Jeff. Okay. Yeah.

00:47:54:09 - 00:47:55:12
thank you, thank you.