#7. How to Sell Your Home During Divorce with Aron and Angelica Pinto

Selling a home during a divorce can be uniquely challenging and emotionally charged. Amid the often high-conflict negotiations of a divorce settlement, you and your ex-partner must work together as a team to sell your home.

➡️How can you align with your ex in the sale process?
➡️How do you prepare your home for sale, whether you're navigating in-house separation or one spouse remains in the home?
➡️What are the top three considerations for achieving the best outcome?

These are just a few of the topics I explored with Aron Pinto and Angelica Pinto, Waterloo Region’s top real estate agents.

Aron and Angelica shared real-life examples of helping divorcing couples resolve disputes, align their interests, and secure the best possible results from a realtor's perspective. I also provided insights from a divorce coach's viewpoint, highlighting key things to watch out for.

We also delved into the current real estate market in the region because, when it comes to real estate, the market speaks volumes.

Tune in to get the full scoop.

⚠️ Caveat: We recorded this session in mid-July, before the recent 0.25-point interest rate reduction from the Bank of Canada. Things may have shifted since our recording, which is another reason to contact Aron and Angelica for the latest market details.

📲Aron Pinto: 519-498-8747
📞Angelica Pinto: 226-988-3696
🌐www.teampinto.com

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Chapters
00:00 Selling a Home During Divorce: Challenges and Emotions
03:54 Timing and Market Conditions in Selling During Divorce
08:29 Understanding the Value of the House in the Market
15:35 Tips for Selling During Divorce: Emotions and Teamwork
20:26 Considerations When Hiring a Real Estate Agent
27:22 Introduction
27:50 Navigating the Emotional Challenges of Selling a Home During Divorce
28:32 The Importance of a Proactive Real Estate Agent in Selling a Home
29:04 Looking Beyond Price: Factors to Consider When Reviewing Offers
29:50 The Role of Appraisals in Pricing and Protecting Both Parties
30:18 Managing Emotions and Protecting Children in the Sale of a Matrimonial Home
31:34 Considerations for Selling an Investment Property During Divorce
41:17 Preparing the House for Sale
44:44 Staying Strong and Focused on the End Goal
49:16 Strategies for Selling Investment Properties

Transcript

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (00:00)
Selling your home can be an exciting time. You may be buying another home to upgrade or sometimes you may be getting ready for your retirement. However, selling during divorce can be a different story. It comes with different challenges, a lot of emotions come your way. And also while you are a team with your partner when selling the home, but you may still be in the divorce or separation negotiation stage.

Lots of complexity. That's why today I invited my real estate agent, but also good friend, Aron and Angelica Pinto, Team Pinto, you might see their ads everywhere, to talk about selling during divorce, whether it's a matrimonial home or an investment property. Welcome.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (00:37)
Hello Lisa. Hello.

Thanks so much for having us. Lisa, we are so excited to be here on your podcast, which is amazing, by the way. So, yeah, let's dive

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (00:52)
Yeah, for those who don't know, Angelica and Aaron, they are the top real estate agent in the Waterloo Region both of them bring a diverse expertise and skills. So Aaron, before he jumped into his current role, he was doing enterprise sales in BlackBerry.

in its heydays, I say, internationally. So he brings a lot of skill negotiation and sales, which is very critical in buying your home or selling your home. And Angelica brings background in marketing and communications. You might see a lot of their videos and other marketing collaterals she has also very unique background as a mortgage broker, which is critical.

as you know how interest rate plays out right now. So, and what I love about Angelica and Aron is that they're always so truthful and real. Think about your best interest, but also they have a very accurate view of the market. As we know, the market is changing very drastically. We're going to dive into. Just before that, I want to talk about and put a timestamp here. We're in mid July of 2024.

depends on how you watch this podcast, the market may be shifting very differently as we talk about today. Let's do I want to do a market check with you. As we know, the Central Bank of Canada just did not long ago, a month ago, a tiny little bit rate reduction, and which probably had some kind of impact, maybe not too much.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (02:20)
Thank you.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (02:23)
If you want to dive in to give us a synopsis of the market situation in the WaterlooRegion

Angelica & Aron Pinto (02:26)
Yeah, the buyers and sellers, especially the buyers are very sensitive to interest rates. And last year we started to see an increase after the big reduction post 2022. And the buyers were regaining confidence and feeling good about buying, even though the rates were much higher, they weren't in the 2 % range anymore. They were in the 5 % or higher range, but they were regaining that confidence.

government is always trying to avoid housing getting out of control. So a Bank of Canada did last June and July, they raised the rates by two quarter percents. So 0 .25 in June, 0 .25 in July, and we saw a decline right away straight to till January, the market was on a decline. So prices going down conditions back a great home sitting there for a long time. Well, price homes were not selling. So that's the type of market we moved in December last year.

and we hadn't seen a rate reduction for years. And as Lisa mentioned, in June, we saw the first rate reduction, but it was only 0 .25%. So pretty much after eight consecutive increases before the two that I just mentioned, the Bank of Canada erased one of the 0 .25 % increases. we didn't feel much at all. And right now there's three types of markets in real estate. There's a seller market, a balanced market and a buyer market. Right now we're strictly in a buyer market.

There's a lot of inventory sitting on the market right now in Waterloo region. There's over 1800 listings and almost a quarter of them have been on the market for over three months, which was unheard of in previous markets. So this is very, very slow. And we are asking.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (03:54)
Yeah.

Awesome. If I can just jump in. if it's a buyer's market, that means if you can hold off selling your home for however long, this might be the time. And we will talk about it.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (04:07)
It all depends. It all depends because it could be a great opportunity for someone looking to upgrade because even if you sell your home and it's not the best market and even if it takes you 40 days to get it sold, if you can get a reasonable price for it. Yeah.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (04:17)
Yeah, no gray point, gray point. That's why I like them. They always throw you a different view. Yeah, if you're upgrade, even though you're not getting the amount you are buying, right? But also when you go buy, it's a chain effect.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (04:29)
Yeah. Maybe you sell for 150 ,000 less, but you buy for 250 ,000 less. So this market could allow you that leverage, but if you're only looking to sell and you're looking for max dollar, then it's not a good market for to cash out and maybe retire or whatever reason may not be the best.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (04:51)
Yeah, that's probably for a lot of people going through divorce and the chance of them, they're probably going to be downsizing a little bit, right? If their home is $2 million now, they're probably looking at $1 million. So if you can hold off a little bit in your negotiation, and that would likely play in your advantage. But again, sometimes you cannot prevent that. The timing is the timing.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (05:11)
Sometimes during the divorce you cannot wait or maybe we have run into situations where couples that are going through a divorce, have waited a long time and now there comes to a point that they are like, okay, forget it. Like I'm out of here. I need to do it right now. So if that's the situation, then of course you can sell. you should do it. Obviously we'll do the best that we We ran into one situation very recently. Last year we met with a couple going through divorce.

and they wanted a list right away. They had tried selling previously, but October, November, December of last year was very, very painful for selling. And they both said that they needed the most amount of money to start their next chapter. So we advised, if you can just wait a bit since you're just looking for the bottom line and maybe we'll explore maybe spring market for the past five years. Curiously, January, February has always taken off in the up markets. It took off even 20 % a year, which is nuts. But on the down market, it took

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (06:04)
I

Angelica & Aron Pinto (06:05)
So we asked them to wait if they could and they did wait and earlier in the year when the market was very active we sold their home and they got a lot more than if they would have sold at the end of the year. But it's about timing sometimes it's possible other times no we need to sell right away and you can deal with that as well but if they are in the situation that for some reason they do need to sell their like okay this is we reached our limit we need to sell there's still great things that we can do to prepare the home.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (06:14)
Yeah.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (06:31)
There's factors outside of our control, we mentioned, government intervention rates, buyer sentiment out there, but there's factors within our control, which is home preparation, home staging, all the things that we great marketing and we can still do it, but just so they know, like, you know, the prices are what they are right now. But if they are looking to restart their own lives separated now, they still can buy for, they can find great deals in the market right now from a down

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (06:58)
Yeah,

Angelica & Aron Pinto (06:59)
Another very important thing to mention that I don't want to forget is nobody has a crystal ball as well. So let's say a house is worth 800 right now. In theory, it should let's say go to 900, but what if before hitting 900, it goes down to 750. What if have to wait two years for it to go to 900 and you can't, so it all depends. I remember we also had a client about eight or nine years ago and he wanted a certain price for his home. He's like, Aaron, I want this price. And I'm like, that's great.

There's only one thing we can do if you want that price. What's that? We have to wait till the market reaches the price that you want. And he's like, okay, he wasn't in a rush. And about a year or two later, I called him. said, guess what? The prices are up because he was off by about 100, 150 ,000. But we're always watching the market. This is what we both do every single day. When we saw the prices were in that range, he wanted 700 ,000 for his home. We got 750, but it's because the market allowed it. And sometimes that's another important thing to touch on. People get attached to a certain number, including during divorce.

This is our house. We know it's worth at least 1 .5. Maybe it was worth 1 .5 in February 2022 at the peak. Maybe it was worth 1 .5 in May 2022 after some of the decline. So then they'll say, oh no, I know it's not the peak price, but we can only ever offer what the current market is willing to pay. And at the end of the day, we're facilitators of the market. We're not the ones buying the property. We're making sure to give it the best exposure, the best marketing, the best videos.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (08:08)
Yes.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (08:17)
putting it on the local board, putting it on the Toronto board since a lot of Toronto buyers have been coming our way. But at the end of the day, that's how the market works. The house is worth what the highest bidding buyer is willing to pay for it.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (08:29)
Yeah, I love that is that no matter what, and Aron and Angelica knew and helped me and my ex selling our investment property. It's the same strategy and same mindset is that the market talks, right? And we have to look at the market. And we will talk some of the details strategy of even selling in a not so good market. What can you do? We will cover that. But I know Aaron, you want to share

a graphic or data to really showcase where are we at today in mid -July about the market in 2024.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (09:02)
I'm going to show everybody a three year graph. Just one moment. This is what we've been seeing over the past three years. These are the average prices of homes on the market. If you look at the peak of the market, was February 2022, the average home price, this includes detached condos, semi -town homes, was $1 ,012 ,996. Now you can see the roller coaster that we've seen and what I alluded to previously, June, July, when they raised the rates at that point.

the market had bounced back from a low of 720 all the way up to 839. And people were getting really excited and houses with this were 700. a huge need for housing in the region. And they sell for 900. But then the Bank of Canada did the two rate increases and it went down all the way to December and it got to a low of 738. Now this year we saw increases right through till May. But then average was 818. Right now it's 789 average. And we had a spring market.

Spring market was very short -lived. It was late March till early April. was three or four weeks. Houses are selling quickly again. Multiple offers. Very, very short -lived. that's, Now, if you look, another interesting point for anyone buying, it's almost like having a time machine. Average price right now is $7 .89. If you go all the way back to November 2021, October 2021, average was $8 .21. So you're actually buying for less than what these homes would have cost you all the way back in 2021.

which if you look at the long term picture, this is homes in the past, all the way since 2011. So 13 years, what do you see? That it's a constant rise. And what do we know about real estate? You can't go up without going down or down without going up. Here, February 22, 2022, what happened? People got a little too anxious and they started to outbid themselves. Oh, this one went for 800, all off for 850. This one went 850, 900 and they kept pushing it up. Real estate is not supposed to grow exponentially.

And in the two big years, 21 and 22, they went up 20 % year over year. Real estate is not supposed to grow 40 % in two years. Healthy is somewhere between three to 5 % per year. So government intervened, interest rates went up, prices went down. But if you look, it's a pretty straight line right now, all the way to 2021. What do we know long term? It will continue to rise in a healthy and steady manner. Maybe it had some more big dips, big rises, but overall long -term real estate will always appreciate.

Cost of materials is up, cost of building is up. that's what we've been seeing. Now another important thing to show you too is the months of supply. Right now we're seeing, we have 3 .3 months worth of inventory on the market right now in the Waterloo region. The last time we had this many homes was July 2015. This is because people know, they notice that in the short -lived spring market that we mentioned,

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (11:24)
Yeah. Thank

my God.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (11:43)
all homes are selling quickly again, great prices. So I feel like lots of sellers, they became enthusiastic about this and they listed the home to us right now. market is already in nine years, we haven't seen this many homes on the market, which is really something to note in terms of understanding when a seller says, my house isn't selling, what's going on? What's going on is that there's another 1 ,854 homes for sale and a quarter of them are taking more than three months to sell. That's the normal pace of the market. That's not always something bad.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (11:55)
Mmm.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (12:11)
This type of market also allows people to have more time Maybe if we're a little bit for sale take a month or two to sell it the buyer could do a home inspection and have peace of mind you go to shop once you sell and then you're in the golden seat because there's all these ones that have been lingering and sitting on the market inspection as well you can so it's not necessarily bad and that question that we often receive is is the market good it's always good the question is for who

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (12:35)
And also the best time to buy is yesterday. I just really appreciate you sharing that because when you talk about some numbers like 2015 was when we bought our matrimonial home. Again, lots of inventory. So buyer's market. I didn't know. We didn't know at the time, obviously. It's just like luckily that was.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (12:39)
Yeah.

I'm not going do it. What are you trying to do?

Okay.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (13:02)
And then I don't mind sharing. So in 2022, that was the the hike, the peak of the price. Right. And I my goal was keeping our matrimonial home, keep me and the kids in there. So every time we continue to negotiate, it's like a total family asset. have to buy him out. Right. It's like I owe him more and more. And it was very huge panic because you don't know if the market will continue to go.

So there were a lot of things that in our big negotiation, I chose to give up in order to exchange for that. So I'm sharing this that you don't know the market like Aaron said, we don't have a crystal ball. So you have to, one thing is that really get good counsel whether it's your real estate agent, your lawyer, right? Get good counsel considering maybe even your tax accountant.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (13:29)
Of course.

We're

Thank you.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (13:56)
look at the whole picture, maybe you adding to a coach or something to really help you to make the decision with the data and the facts you have in front of your eyes. Because we don't know how the market will go because who would have expected COVID would increase our real estate market that much because everybody thought it would go down. I really appreciate

Angelica & Aron Pinto (14:13)
Yeah. to you a specific example, you can see here when you buy your matrimonial home, the average price of homes in the region was $346 ,000. And as I said, there's no crystal ball. At the peak of 2022, we were at a million. And at different points, we've been sort of hovering around $750, $790. That's been the average. But there have been times, like if somebody would have sold in August 2020, they'd say, oh my goodness, I almost doubled my money.

This is great. What a good investment, but they don't realize that they could have quadrupled if they waited the right amount or tripled their money. It's all about timing. And we always talk about relative highs and relative lows. So right now we don't know if we've reached the bottom, but we know that we're at relative bottom. Prices are very low right now. And if you buy now and you're not going to sell for another 10 years, it's pretty safe to say that you'll make money in those 10 years. You can only tell when it switches.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (14:45)
Yeah, when,

And also even

even in this market tend to be buyer, one of my clients and who's going through a separation just so ld their home with a very good price. So it really depends. I just want to share that it really depends again, always prepare for the best, right? And hoping for the best and see what the market respond. So I want to ask going into thank you for sharing that again, and Aron and Angelica, what are your top three tips?

for someone or a couple who is selling their house during a separation or divorce.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (15:35)
One is to keep all emotions aside. It's always easier said than done. But to really try to keep emotions aside, because the more you're able to keep calm, the more that you'll both benefit from that calmness. So just almost look at it as a business transaction. At this point, we're moving on, we're each going our own ways. This is already decided. Let's make the best of it and at least have the biggest cushion and safety blanket possible.

If we let emotions get involved, maybe we'll make less money. Maybe we'll sell it the wrong time. Maybe we'll price it wrong. Maybe we'll pick the wrong realtor. Be patient. Find the right path and just be very careful in planning your next steps so that you can make as much money as possible because the more that you get might make the difference between your next one being a congo with your child or being a townhouse, being a detached and not a semi. Just timing and being precautious. But the toughest part, and as I said, it's easier said than done.

is taking the emotions out of it. And that's where Angelica and I get very involved with whenever we're working with couples going through divorce, we realize how difficult it is and we become that liaison. So sometimes you don't have to confront each other. You can just and we help to make that part extra smooth. That's one of the main ones. It's also important to keep in mind that emotions are flowing and you know, like disappointment and all of these.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (16:48)
Angelica.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (16:54)
Things that obviously happens during a divorce now for for this moment for the transaction of the sale of the home have to work as a team now to get you the best possible result so it's like we all have to we all have a common goal here and we have to keep that that goal in mind throughout the whole process when we try to like Aaron said like try to get the things to settle and calm down so that we can do the best that we can from the situation

The other one is sometimes with all the stress of divorce, we can leave out the fine detail and just say, I'll just list the house. the house will just sell itself. I don't really care. Take the extra time. Make sure that every showing that you're showing it at its best, that the house is very tidy, that it's presentable, that you're not cooking, like just certain things to show it at its best because people buy with all their senses. What they see, what they hear, what they smell, what they feel. You don't want them coming in because

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (17:19)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (17:45)
you're having a bad day, the kids spilled something and they're touching the counter. I love this granite and it's sticky. You want to make sure that everything's always presentable so that the buyers envision themselves there and give you the ultimate best price. Sometimes it's complicated, of course, because we have seen cases where, for example, one of the husband has moved out from the private home and the wife is the only one living there with the kids. So they have to keep the house tidy and organized for showings. It's not always easy.

something happens and then the husband is like, why the house wasn't showing at the best for the showings? And we have seen also like one of the ex -married people taking furniture out of the property and the other one is upset, why would they do that? And that's very common, it happened often. Like we have seen that several times and it's just like that.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (18:39)
Yeah, yeah, thank you.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (18:40)
disagreements about dates, about closing dates, like all these things. So we're there to facilitate and we know how much they're going through and our goal is always to take that weight off of their shoulders.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (18:47)
Yeah.

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. sounds like really just try to take put the emotions aside, which is really the whole legal process very hard. But but also try to be a team during this time, right? Because you want to maximize your profit and try to limit the drama, which is hard when you when you say it about moving furniture is like, yep, been there. So

Angelica & Aron Pinto (18:58)
is not right.

Yes.

Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (19:18)
and but but

Yeah, lots of resentment.

I love

Angelica & Aron Pinto (19:44)
intelligence, coordination, care. So it's just making sure that even for that short time, however difficult it is, putting in that effort to make it into a smart business partnership so that you can both benefit. Because at the end of the day, this will help you a lot for the next 10, 20 or more years if you plan it correctly.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (20:01)
Yeah, awesome. This tying perfectly into my top three tips when you're about to sell during a separation or divorce. Number one is when you decide to separate or divorce, Do not, whatever happens, do not move out yet until you have a clear direction, unless there is some abuse happening like your emotional well -being or physical well -being are in danger. Because if you move out,

We don't know, right? You might incur new expenses of rent and stuff. a lot of uncertainties at this point. Stay put is your key, even though emotionally you might not well be. So don't move out unless you get some clear direction. Two, do not rush it. For a lot of people, unless you are ultra rich, for a lot of people, your matrimony home is your biggest asset. Your biggest asset will impact you down the road financially for a long time.

Aron said, so do not rush it. And you want to interview, find the best real estate agent, asking about price we will talk about, right? Really understand the market and the timing and then decide what to do, when to list. So do not rush. Last, my tip is that don't sell without a separation agreement. This is really you need to hold your legal counsel accountable and get in touch with them.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (21:17)
Yeah.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (21:20)
because your real estate agent, they are responsible for selling the maximum price for you. But in terms of if you don't have a separation agreement, depends. You might have a line of credit attached to your home. And if you're selling an investment property, there may be capital gain. How is that paid out? And also who is going to hold the funds? Because a lot of times the home is sold, the funds won't be divided until you have a separation agreement.

Again, this is crucial. Consult your legal consultation, your lawyer or mediator. When should you sell? It's very important. So here are my top three tips. Don't move out, don't rush, and also don't sell without a separation agreement. At least a clear understanding about how the house is going to be divided, who is going to live in when it's sold with a fine legal.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (21:58)
Yeah.

Yeah. And those are great tips, Lisa. Thanks for mentioning those three. Just one thing to add to number three is don't ever assume anything with a separation agreement until it's signed. doesn't exist. it's an important one you'll say, well, he or she said she's going to sign. You can go buy a house and commit to a purchase because I know that they're going to sign. Don't assume. Once again, emotions get very involved. And let's say in a hypothetical scenario,

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (22:19)
Yes. Yes.

He said, she said, yes.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (22:34)
You go and buy a home, he, she's gonna sign, and then once they see that you bought or sold, it could trigger some new emotions. And then they hold all the cards, I'm not signing. You need to sign, because I already bought, I already, no, I didn't tell you to, so just be very careful. It's not just having a separation in theory or in verbal agreement until it's signed and dotted. It's as if it doesn't exist.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (22:42)
Yeah, they might want to

Yeah, exactly. The planning, you again, this is the time you do not want to rush things. That's why the process takes some time to figure out all of the numbers. I love that. Thank you for adding that. I want to ask because really I believe in hiring for professional help and whether it's your lawyer during this time and Aron and Angelica knows because we invested in real estate as an investor. We also have our real estate lawyer who actually we knew is the same person because you build your

best team, right? I per I firmly believe that during this time of divorce, if you can build the best team together to support you, including your real estate agent. And I know some people will sell without real estate agent, I don't recommend because you don't know the market, you don't know the listing price. How do you handle the tension, which is already very high the conflict with your ex when there isn't a third party.

It's almost like doing a divorce with our lawyer. Again, I don't I don't recommend. So what are your top suggestions that you want to recommend to people who are going through a divorce and to consider when hiring a real estate agent in the time of sale of their.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (23:57)
One is how much experience do they have? How many homes have they sold? How many homes have they helped people to buy? Because experience is huge for this type of transaction. So you just want to make sure it's somebody who's not maybe newer or doesn't have the experience so that they can make sure to have all of the factors considered and evaluate all of the different scenarios, be it with your purchase or sale, to make sure that the outcome is optimized for you. Experience does make a huge difference.

Yeah, also I would say make sure you interview some agents and see if there's like a personal connection as well. If you feel comfortable with, you know, working with this person and it has the professional credentials like Aron mentioned, experience, a track record of success with the sales, but there's also has to be a personal connection. Also making sure they are quite active. They have to, in my opinion, it has to be a full -time agent. Can't be somebody who's working part -time, who has a day job

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (24:45)
No, I love

Angelica & Aron Pinto (24:51)
sure, I'll help you after work. think there's no way of doing this job part -time. You have to be at this full time so you have a great understanding of the market and the activities. And then something that is often not said but is very important. It has to be somebody with enough volume that they don't need that transaction to be able to live day to day. So if it's somebody who in a whole year sells maybe two or three houses, they're not going to want to miss out on the sale even if it's not in your best interest because they need to get it done.

So just somebody who's doing enough volume that they don't need your transaction to survive which

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (25:26)
Hmm, I love that. So Aron and Angelica combined, probably have more than not probably they do have more than 10 years of experience. And just on that part, because in the end, real estate transaction when you get offers, right, whether you get multiple offers, or how sometimes you get one offer is that negotiation piece is a key skill your real estate agent should have.

Second one is the understanding of the market. I think the third one is that do they have enough connections and know other agents enough to make the deal happen? So in real estate, we have the saying that you don't buy good deals, you make good deals. So it's very important, as Aron said, you know volume and Angelica said that personal connection

It's important that you want someone who's going to fight for your best interest. Like I mean, fight for your best interest, not just like pushing you to sell because they can get that commission. Right. Think about if you're a home sale for half a million to five hundred and fifty thousand for you, it's a lot of difference for the agent. The difference of the commission is small, but you want to hire someone who will fight for your best interest. And I remember and just as I know, Aron and Angelica

Angelica & Aron Pinto (26:17)
first.

Definitely.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (26:41)
I think I sold two homes with you. One is actually for my friend a couple of years ago, not several years ago. And the market wasn't good at the time. We didn't get an any offer. I think you two really worked your butt off to find a potential buyer who is a good fit working with another agent to make that happen at a price that my friend was happy because they moved to Alberta at the time. So very important. And also another agent, just like

Angelica & Aron Pinto (27:03)
Yeah.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (27:08)
a lawyer will advise you when to compromise as well. So another example is that when we sold our investment property, Aron and Angelica were helping us. And I think the market was a year before the high of 2022, right? It was investment property, the basement wasn't finished and although upstairs was beautiful and we only had one offer. Right. So this is the tricky point because one offer is the trickiest.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (27:22)
Yes.

Okay.

because you're not sharing where you are with the other.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (27:36)
right? So I think we got

Angelica & Aron Pinto (27:38)
Yeah, like we do when you have just one offer, then you're negotiating one on one with that one person instead if you have two, like, you know, can put them up in the one. we have the occasion, especially in this type of market where we're one on one. And it's always making sure that our sellers sell as high as possible and that our buyers buy as low as possible. One important thing to mention that ties into the whole concept of the right realtor.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (27:39)
Yeah, yeah, Angelica, what were you saying? I didn't hear

and they don't know.

It's very tough,

Angelica & Aron Pinto (28:05)
is that a lot of realtors will just be more reactive and not so proactive. So an example of that is let's say you get an offer on the house and you wanted 900 ,000 for your house. Like, hey, look, we got an offer. It's 890. I think you should take it. We never would do that if we've had other showings before deciding we have to exhaust all options. So reach out to the other 20 groups or 15 groups or even four groups. Hey, we have an offer. Are you interested? And even if you get one more offer, it changes the whole dynamic.

Now the person who offered the 890, maybe they'll go to 915 because they don't want to lose it. They really want it. They like it enough to offer. They like it enough that they're going to fight for it or maybe the second or third or fourth group all fight. So that's just one point. But another very important one is not just looking at one aspect of any given offer. When we're reviewing offers, if I have 20 on the table, OK, let's filter it. These are the five that are contending. But we're not just looking at price. lot of it could be an easy mistake to say this guy offered 50 ,000 more than the second highest. Let's just work with him.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (28:34)
Yes.

Yes.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (29:02)
And then they close. And he can't if. And a rookie mistake might be, well, they have no conditions, so they're going to have to close. That's not true. They might not be able to. So we're never working it off as we're always breaking it down to the five fundamentals. What's the price? What's the deposit? What's the closing date? What are the inclusions and the exclusions?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (29:05)
Yeah, then you have to release the house.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (29:22)
And what are the conditions? And the buyer's credentials, can they close? they approved? So that within the finance, we make sure, yeah, who's your approval with? Do you have a commitment letter? Do they have a house to sell then? What's that house worth? That's another one. Oh, yeah, we have no conditions. And they don't put a sale home condition, but they don't understand the dynamics of the current market. And they go to sell their condo. We'll get 450 easy. And they put it up and they don't. And they can sell. And if they can't sell for the price that they calculated on their spreadsheet,

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (29:50)
They can't buy it,

Angelica & Aron Pinto (29:50)
They can't close either. There are so many factors and we have to look into all of that in order to protect our sailors from all these eventualities that could potentially happen. Especially now, and everything that we're seeing in this current market, somebody may have bought two years ago and their interest rate was $199, $209 Now all of sudden they go to renewal and their interest rate is 6%, 5 .89. So literally a mortgage could go from $2 ,400 to $4 ,800 within a renewal. So we're seeing a lot of power of sales.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (30:10)
Yeah.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (30:18)
And what we're trying to do is always guide our clients. Before the bank gets involved, they can still sell it. So we're always trying to guide them, but that takes transparency on behalf of the clients and being comfortable to share. We really need to sell by this date. And if we know, then we can have an action plan geared towards, we need to get maximum price, but by this deadline, because the bank has no mercy. If you don't pay and you can't keep up with the payments, they will just take over, get you out and sell it.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (30:44)
Yeah, that would be heartbreaking. I appreciate you adding the five fundamentals. It just shows there are more complexity in the sales of a home. One, another point I was just saying, we went off into that one offer and two offer. love you bringing that, your agents should be proactive. If they can get an offer, another offer regardless of what the offer is at the price.

you're in a very competitive advantage right now. I love that. I was just saying that also your real estate agent should be a good advisor in the sense that to advise you when to compromise. Right. So in our case, we had one offer. We were negotiating with them. It was a very tough time. Emotions and conflicts were really, really high. I'm just be transparent. I didn't want to sell the other party wanted. So in this kind of case, like you have to if you have to let go.

Listen to the advice again, really look at the numbers again around the market around the neighborhood. What's selling right is and also even before agree with your partner whatever your situation is and the real estate agent. What's the bottom price? We're willing to let that go. So it doesn't come into a surprise. And also you can also agree if we don't hit that number, we're to push the sale date or something. So very important.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (31:59)
that is really hard, like you said, because you're selling a matrimonial home, that's hard enough because this is the home that you purchase together as a couple. You're looking for this home to be there with your family and you have all these hopes that you guys are gonna be there for a long time and suddenly you're getting a divorce. But when you're selling an investment property, I would think it's as hard because you bought that home.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (32:00)
a good agent. Yeah, go ahead.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (32:25)
with the, it was a project that you built together, like in your case, for example, you guys built that home, you renovated it beautifully, you had like a wonderful Airbnb operation going on there and it was gorgeous. And like all the work and care that you put into that property. And now like you have to sell it, that like emotionally and mentally and you have to go through. So of course you didn't want to sell and

the other person is wanting to sell because of the divorce is hard. The main topic to address on today is emotions. That's the toughest thing during a divorce and it affects every aspect, buying and selling. We touched briefly on the problem of buying before a separation agreement. But even if there is a separation agreement, don't say, I need my own place. I found this condo. It's perfect for me and my son. I'm going to buy it and everything will work out. And then you haven't sold your house yet.

and you've committed to a $550 ,000 purchase thinking you'll get at least 1 .6 for your house, which is maybe worth 1 .3. So you have to be careful with that side of emotions as well. And don't just jump the gun and say, I'm gonna go buy because things will work out themselves. Speak to your realtor, speak to your accountant, speak to your lawyer, speak to your Self first. Yeah. Speak to Lisa, she'll guide you in the right way.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (33:33)
Yeah, like sometimes we have to slow down to speed up. You know, you have to do things strategically. I think that's why hiring the right kind of real estate agent will guide you in that kind of strategy.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (33:41)
And that's the important thing about having a divorce coach too, to have one central person. knows so many people and she can always point you to the right direction to get the answers that you need so that you have a decision out of, you need somebody who's looking at it from the outside. That's the best way to summarize it. And who's gone through it. So yeah, always rely on the

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (33:59)
And also, yeah, thank you for saying that. But also, like you said, when you look at offers, right, price is not on the only factor you're looking at. When you go through a divorce, obviously, the financial aspect is critical. But also a lot of times people don't look at the time aspect. Right? You can get more like, let's say $50 ,000 more from the house or a spousal support. But then it's going to take you three years. How much

does your time worth, right? If I'm still getting stuck in there, I can't do this today. Just something to consider, know, time and money, different aspects. So

Angelica & Aron Pinto (34:33)
I can give you an interesting... And that of your kids, if you are involved in that lengthy process, your kids are gonna see that, my mom or my dad, they're so stressed going through all of this, is that worth it? Maybe the answer is no. I can give you a practical example of a case where money wasn't the answer. We were reviewing offers one night, and let's say that home was worth about 700 ,000, and an out of town agent called and said, oh, I'm bringing you an offer. So you always wanna make sure that you don't have any regrets. So we bought time.

to see what his offer was. And let's say arbitrarily speaking, he came in at 750 and the highest one to the moment was 700. It's all about the interrogation of that agent. You to make sure that it's, even if there's no conditions, I think he had a small condition, but after asking him questions from many different angles, I found out that they hadn't even gone to the bank yet. And one of the strategies might be is, let's get them to agree to 750. By then the other six or seven groups are gone. Now we're the only ones on the table. If they go back to the market, what will everyone say?

Why didn't it sell on offer night? Why didn't the other group work it? And at that point they turned the cards around and they start to negotiate. Oh, we went to the bank, we're only approved for 650 and they would have lost out on the 700. So we made sure to do our due diligence to figure out the qualification of the candidate. And then we decided on the best offer, which in this case wasn't the highest price. It was the most qualified and safest bet to make sure that the seller was taken care of.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (35:54)
great, great example because it's already so unstable in this time, right? For people going through separation and divorce, any kind of a certainty you can get, you want to get that. You don't want to list the house another month and also going through this rollercoasters on emotions of the price already. That's a great example.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (36:10)
And what don't know about, which is important to mention today, is the importance of an appraisal. So let's say in this case, we would have agreed to the 750, and then let's say that was overpriced, because that was more than what the home was worth. And then let's say they have an approval of 800 ,000 in this case, just to make it even more interesting. If the appraiser goes into the house and looks at the recent sales, then the last one sold for 680, 690, 710, and 700, and he appraises it at seven, even if you're approved for 800.

and you bought it for $750, which is less than what you're approved for, the bank will say, we're not giving you a mortgage on $750. We're only going to give you a mortgage on $700 because that's what it appraised for. And that's why the appraisals are so important because the banks always send in the appraiser to know that their funds are being protected. Because let's say somebody doesn't pay their mortgage and they need to sell it. They're oh yeah, this home's worth $750. No, it's not, it's worth $700. So part of making sure that the home is selling properly and for the best

is also being mindful of what other homes have sold for and that the client will be able to get through the appraisal. And one last point to that is it also depends on how much down payment. Let's say in that case, it did come back at 700 and they bought for 750. If they're putting down 400 ,000, a huge down payment, then the appraisal doesn't even matter. So that's another thing to keep in mind. And maybe your realtor will ask, okay, I see this is the price. What is the size of your client's down payment? And by knowing

I know that you're almost protected against a lower appraisal if it were to come in. Lisa also in terms of appraisal, you mentioned like when you work, because you wanted to keep your matrimonial home and then you have to buy him out and the market was like increasing and going up. So I'm sure you have to deal with that side of the appraisal as well, like with him. Okay, is the house worth more now? Like, and then like you have to get to an agreement with him. Okay, how

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (37:36)
Yeah, the risk level.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (37:56)
are you gonna be buying him before out of the house? And in those scenarios, are certain appraisers that specialize in divorce and they can say, based on this date of the separation, we'll come up with the value of what the home was worth and that's usually a neutral price that both parties can agree or disagree with. At least they'll have a valid How was that for you?

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (38:16)
Yeah, so I was going to add a ppraisal of how important it is. again, I highly recommend you hire someone professional. So I don't know if your clients have reached out to you to give them a price. So it could be done as well if both parties are relatively pretty amicable still. So you can reach out to your real estate agent who maybe help you to bought the home, say, hey, what's the market price? And then the other person can consult another agent as well

But this is again, a little bit like he says, she says, you know, so the best way. Yeah, yeah, the best way is is to hire a professional appraiser to actually come to your house to check. So what we did is that I hired one and he hired one to come to the house. The price is actually exactly same. So we put a timestamp on it. So that's the price. I mean, let's say if there is maybe 10 grand difference, you find the mid number,

Angelica & Aron Pinto (38:43)
Yes, it becomes another problem.

yeah.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (39:09)
So it's important that you have that piece of document down. Even if the other person is saying no, you yourself can still hire one to get that appraisal. That's official document,

So how do couples agree during this time on the listing price? So what are your steps you walk people through?

Angelica & Aron Pinto (39:25)
We take a lot of time to go through recent sales, show them what a similar home sold for. We always advise what price and strategy we think is most appropriate to get the best price. But at the end of the day, the sellers are the ones who decide. So in the case of a divorce, we try to get the opinion of both. And that's seen all the facts, everyone through all the data going through all that. And then it's something similar. Maybe if the husband says, I want to start at 800 and the wife wants to start at 850. It's like, let's meet in the middle. Maybe we'll start at 825.

And then reminding them that at the end of the day, the buyers are the ones that are going to determine how much they're offering. And if you want different strategies, let's try to find a strategy that combines both. And that's where we're there to mediate and make sure that it's as friendly and easy as possible. And that the information that we're providing is so thorough and logical and intelligent that it's almost like a no brainer. Yeah, that makes sense. Let's follow the strategy to maximize our price. Let's start here.

And it all depends on the market too. In a buyer market like this, you're not really holding offers as much. It's not as common. You just go to the price. But you usually say strategy one, we list for 800 aiming for nine. Strategy two, we just start at nine and we wait for the right buyer. And usually within the couple, they'll say, I like strategy two or whatever it is. Well, we just try to find something where they see their options and they pick what's best. And usually we find ways that they end up agreeing.

We haven't had a case and we've worked with many couples going through divorce where they've said no, we both want to go different ways. Usually we'll always find the middle ground or they'll follow with suggestion.

No, think, yeah, I agree with Aaron. think that at the end of the day, like we said, there's a common goal right now. So which price do we need to maximize on our sale? And usually couples after seeing all the data, they make the logical choice, like, okay, and we can talk to somewhere, like, okay, we can work with that price, let's do it.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (40:55)
Yeah. Anything to add, Angelica?

Thank you. So what I know you guys make beautiful videos and fun too. So I think you're getting more and more comfortable to make a lot of videos, which is really very important because people want to see it before they go see it, right? So what are the best ways or your suggestions to get the house ready for sale in this market?

Angelica & Aron Pinto (41:18)
Thank you.

ready for that.

We of professional. As we've mentioned, I really enjoy and I'm good at negotiating. Angelica is very good at marketing and promoting. We all do our own strengths. for home staging, I'm not a home stager, neither is Angelica. We bring in our team members that are extended team that help with all of our home staging tasks. For video, I love high quality video, but I'm not going to go shoot my own on a gimbal.

We have the pros and they come in and that's what they do. They're part of our extended And it's taken us time to find the right formula of what does T eam Pinto have to offer by finding all the best specialists in each of these spaces. So for preparation, we would give a generic introduction of how to prepare, but for the actual preparation, we'll bring in our home stager and she'll give an actual report. She'll email both parties, the husband and the wife in the divorce PDF saying, this is what you do room by room.

Here I suggest moving this couch here. This room we have to paint. Here you have to the baseboards because they're dust, whatever it be. Sometimes it's tricky and we have to work through things because we have cases, we have had cases where, for example, the wife is still on the primary bedroom and the husband is temporarily living in the basement. we have to work through that. And when we're getting ready for sale, we also don't want any triggers.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (42:41)
separation.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (42:45)
where the buyers are going to say, I'm going to offer low because they're going through a divorce. We keep that very confidential. in that case, we really have to pack.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (42:52)
Yeah, very important. Very important. This is very important.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (42:55)
We never mention when people are asking, that's private information, nobody needs to know. So it's not only what we say, it's what they see. So you definitely don't want to see signs of the husband or wife in the basement because that will affect what people are willing to offer.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (43:09)
separation.

Yeah, I love that. And just my experience, because I'm a little bit perfectionist in this way, whether you use a home staging company or not, you want just like Aron and Angelica said, someone to walk in, they can envision themselves living here. So you want it to be very clean, very tidy. Right. It's how you present. I know a lot of people use this and before the open house, they may bake the cookie.

right? So one can they can come to visit to eat the cookie but also the home will be filled with the sweet smell of cookie like small details do matter small details really matter and you just want

Angelica & Aron Pinto (43:46)
and

Yeah. Listen, are home stayer on your own. You are amazing. Yeah, thank you.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (43:57)
Yeah, and what I was saying is that it's an opportunity you have. do not want to mess up. Anything you do to keep it top -notch, this is the time, and especially for the video, because you're going to reach thousands of viewers. another thing is that get your house ready. There may be some emotional part.

I'm lucky in the way that I didn't have to sell my matrimonial home, but even selling the investment property because my kids know these houses, I kept them away from any of that happening just really to protect them emotionally. If you can't avoid letting your kids know, maybe your kid's are older or something, just really try not to have conflict during this time because it's already everybody's to some degree losing their home, so to speak.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (44:45)
Of course.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (44:47)
Really keeping that emotional piece. Be aware of that. Try not to get a conflict into your spouse as much as possible, like align as much as possible, and keep the kids out of this drama as much as possible. So I think you touched a lot. I have another question. How do you help your clients during this challenging time?

Angelica & Aron Pinto (44:58)
Of course. We

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (45:08)
resolve disputes or disagreements to align I can remember all of the emails my ex and I would shoot at you. was like, I didn't agree. How do you keep them like calm?

Angelica & Aron Pinto (45:12)
Yeah.

I think that the realtor is that we're only selling all day. I think half of our job is selling and the other half, be it divorce or not divorce, is emotion handling. More than half. Yeah. So it's such a big transaction. Like you said, it's most people's largest asset. So whether they're buying or selling, it's very important for us to always have them feeling at ease. With divorce, obviously the emotions are running a bit higher, but that's one of our strengths is we're just good listeners,

advisors and we're always looking to make people feel comfortable so that we can help them make their own best decisions. We're facilitators of the market. We're not the ones buying the homes, both on the buying and selling side. We're helping them make the smartest purchase and we're helping buyers purchase their homes for the highest possible price. We try to mediate as much as we can

Yes, always being very respectful, listening. at the same time, there's things that we have to talk about them. We have to do it respectfully. And then at the end of the day, we need to get them the best possible outcome for the sale of their home. So we have to keep reminding them of that. So that's the goal. have to go back to Our job is to be extremely patient. And when emotions are running high, just be there to make sure that we help them get through it. And we have 100 % success rate

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (46:28)
Yeah.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (46:32)
getting through it with them and making them feel comfortable. We've never had a case where we couldn't handle the emotions. Or that one of the couple, the wife feels overshadowed or the husband that feels ignored that we are not, no, have to. and another important part on our end is always making sure that both parties are always updated. That's a big one. Yes. Never update one party. And not the other one. Why didn't you tell me that we had this offer? Obviously everything in these cases is full transparency. So both are always informed.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (46:51)
Yeah. Yeah.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (46:59)
and both are fully in charge and aware of what's going

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (47:02)
Yeah, what I love that you guys are mediators too a mediator in terms like you're mediating the deal, right? Make the deal happen one. But you're also mediating the emotional, the other aspects of things. A lot of people think like, isn't they just a sale? No, there are a lot of pre sale preparation and post sale because, you know what if the you bought the house when you close your the basement is flooding. What's going to happen? And this is the time really tested

Angelica & Aron Pinto (47:18)
Correct.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (47:28)
the how experienced and skillful your agents are, right? Are they quick in looping in your real estate agents, right? How are they moving around giving you resolutions? Very important. So don't only look at the selling piece.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (47:38)
And that's where 10 years working in corporate before being in real estate came in very handy. Well, sometimes one of the couples, they prefer talking to me and the other one feels more comfortable talking to her. We always take pride that we have the girl, the boy and the couple. So whichever of the three...

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (47:51)
Yes. Yes.

Yeah, I was going to say that. That's my second point is that Aron and Angelica, right? It's good sometimes maybe Aron can talk to the husband. I know Angelica provided a lot of emotional support, just even acknowledging like, hey, Lisa, it's really tough, this is your baby, now you're selling it. So it can be really helpful because a lot of times when people getting into

budding heads in divorce ultimately, it's not even about the money. It's not about the amount. It's like they wanted to be seen and heard and understood because they haven't been in their marriage. So having an agent who have two sides to tender the husband and wife can be really helpful during this very difficult time. So I have my last question because we have our matrimonia home.

lot of emotions. I wonder for people who are selling investment properties during divorce, which is like you said, more of a business transaction, but still a lot of emotions that attach to it because it's their partnership, different type. So do you use different kind of strategy? One thing I can think of is that capital gain has to be considered during this time. And our lovely government just increased that threshold after $250 ,000 to be 67%.

So any different strategies, suggestions when people going through a divorce are selling their investment property from

Angelica & Aron Pinto (49:17)
We run into cases where let's say the house man is going to move on the one in the living one of the investment properties. So yeah, sometimes we're able to help them see it from the outside and do maybe distribution of assets. So let's say it's a family that has six properties at different values. Maybe one party keeps four condos. The other one keeps the primary and one condo or whatever it be. And at that point it's sort of nice because if they want to, they can sell everything at their own leisure.

without having to do everything together. So if it is down to investments, sometimes we can help to facilitate. if they do have to sell, if they're like, we're selling this house, then I think it's, it will be a similar process. Just taking the emotions out, looking at it as a transaction, making sure that capital gains, as you mentioned, is looked at by the accountant, that they speak to their lawyer.

Separation agreements are signed fully and executed and not just a theory. We've heard some horror stories. We haven't had any of those situations, but of times where the separation document was said to be signed even and the realtor went based on it being signed. And then when push came to shove, it wasn't. it get very messy. It all depends because maybe the investment property has a tenant in there. So, okay, how are we going to deal with the tenant? How is this going

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (50:11)
I'm sorry.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (50:32)
Is it worth it to do some renovations or maybe not? Maybe depending on the market as well. It's just best to sell it the way it is. That's a different type of emotion handling that we also sell at is dealing with the tenants because tenants are always feel invaded. They have nothing to gain. They're usually not just do they not gain from the sale. They're inconvenienced. Sometimes they have to move out. It's very important for us to manage their emotions when selling investments, making sure they always get proper notice that whoever is visiting is always respectful.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (50:45)
Yeah.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (51:00)
Sometimes we'll take extra time in certain situations. If the tenant has a cat or something, signs, make sure to not let out the cat. Please do not touch tenants belongings. Please do not use the washrooms just so that they feel also attended to. And it also always results in a better sale for the sellers. But I think the most important thing, like we mentioned before, is just keep the end in mind. It's hard, it's time property that we are selling so that you can focus on the price into your next chapter. can max out here in terms

the sales price, but then you are able to move on because the decision was already made. It is important that you are going through this. So let's just do it in the best way that we can.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (51:37)
Awesome. feel like investment property could be another episode because there's so many nuances in that. But before we wrap this up, anything I didn't ask that you want to share with people who are couples who are going through a divorce for selling their home, whether it is their matrimonial home or investment property. And in final

Angelica & Aron Pinto (51:55)
Just remember that it's just a stage in life and that you will get through it however difficult it feels today, the sun will come up tomorrow and right now is your time to be smart, keep your family and your future in mind and just do your best and that it's not always easy to stay patient, it's not always easy to stay calm but stay strong and use that strength to get you through this. for yourself, do it for your kids, that's you have to do. And just remember that it will get better and sometimes there's a storm before the sun comes

Just prepare for that sun.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (52:28)
I love that so much. Thank you. I wanted to wrap up with a thought that my lawyer shared with me at the time. And because you never know how the negotiation would go, just like you would list a home. You don't know how many offers you're going to get, right? So she really encouraged me. She said, we were pretty confident I can make this happen to keep the house and keep the kids in. However, she said, we never know, right? This is a good lawyer.

preparing you for all possibilities because no one can guarantee anything. Just like a real estate agent, we will aim for the best result, but we don't know what's going to come our way. And she said to me, she said, Lisa, yes, your house is your home. But you make your home. You. You make your home for your kids. Even if in the end, this house doesn't exist, you can still make home for them. I just want to share that with all of the audience.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (53:06)
That's

That's true.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (53:18)
Yeah, if you're going through a separation and divorce for whatever reason you may lose your house You can you have the power within you you have all the intelligence and the love to make a new home for your kids yourself no matter where you are so I just not I just want to leave with that and How can people find you Aron and Angelica I mean your your ads are everywhere I know but

Angelica & Aron Pinto (53:21)
Thanks everybody.

Yes, please.

I love. I

They can go to our website at teampinto .com. My phone number is 519 -498 -8747. And then Janika is 226 -988 -3696. They can call us at any time. You can find us on Instagram, on Facebook, on our website. www .teampinto .com. Just send us a message and we'll be glad to touch base and speak. Or you can scan the QR code.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (53:44)
Tell people the best way to reach out to

Okay, just thank you, Aron. And I'm sure you get a lot of spam by publicly just announcing your numbers. But thank you so much for your time. I know how busy you are to give great advice here. And we will link all the information on the bottom. And of course, I will tag you when we post this. Just thank you so much for your thoughtfulness. Yeah. Great.

Angelica & Aron Pinto (54:17)
Thank you, Senor.

Perfect. Well, thanks for coming guys. It's so great seeing you. And for anyone going through the course, stay strong. Better days are coming. Yes, you will get through it.

Goodbye, everybody. Thanks, Lisa.

Lisa Gu, Divorce Coach (54:35)
Okay, see you next time.