In this insightful episode of the Lead and Live Well podcast, hosts Erin Cox and Scott Knox sit down with Alex McCray, a seasoned veteran of the social sector with nearly 30 years of experience. Alex's dynamic career spans both the nonprofit direct service and funder sides of the sector and highlights his passion for education and the arts. Listeners will gain valuable insights as Alex discusses the importance of mindfulness, patience, and authentic leadership; the significance of understanding communication styles within teams; the necessity of integrating work and life; and the power of being intentional and present. Alex also touches upon his personal practices of mindfulness, including silent retreats, which have profoundly influenced his approach to leadership and personal well-being. This conversation is not only a deep dive into Alex McCray’s impactful journey but also a session filled with practical advice for leaders in all sectors. Tune in to learn how to lead and live well from an individual who embodies these principles through his work and life.
Hosted by Erin Cox and M. Scott Knox
Edited and Produced by Stephanie Cohen
In this insightful episode of the Lead and Live Well podcast, hosts Erin Cox and Scott Knox sit down with Alex McCray, a seasoned veteran of the social sector with nearly 30 years of experience. Alex's dynamic career spans both the nonprofit direct service and funder sides of the sector and highlights his passion for education and the arts. Listeners will gain valuable insights as Alex discusses the importance of mindfulness, patience, and authentic leadership; the significance of understanding communication styles within teams; the necessity of integrating work and life; and the power of being intentional and present. Alex also touches upon his personal practices of mindfulness, including silent retreats, which have profoundly influenced his approach to leadership and personal well-being. This conversation is not only a deep dive into Alex McCray’s impactful journey but also a session filled with practical advice for leaders in all sectors. Tune in to learn how to lead and live well from an individual who embodies these principles through his work and life.
Hosted by Erin Cox and M. Scott Knox
Edited and Produced by Stephanie Cohen
Erin: Welcome to the Lead and Live Well podcast. My name is Erin Cox, and I'm thrilled to be here with my co-host Scott Knox on the Lead and Live Well podcast. We sit down with leaders in the social impact world to learn about their leadership journeys. We talk about their strengths and passions, the transitions they have made in their career, and how they have crafted their own paths to leadership.
Our goal is to highlight a diverse array of leaders and journeys, so that our listeners learn from relatable and compelling examples of what it means to lead and live well.
Scott: And today we have a great conversation for our listeners with Alex McCray. Alex has worked within the social sector for nearly 30 years. He has led and served on both the nonprofit direct service and funder sides of the sector. With interests in education and the arts, Alex is personally and professionally committed to and engaged in the work of changing the world and contributing to it being a better place for everyone.
Welcome Alex.
Alex: Thank you, Scott and Erin. Happy to be here.
Erin: Thank you so much for joining us today, Alex. Really, really excited to jump into this conversation with you. First, I think it would be helpful for us to get grounded in the trajectory of your career thus far. , And as you talk to us about the career moves that you've made, curious to know why you made the choices that you made. And one thing that we love to dig into as we go through this, Alex, is within those, those choices, how much of it was chance and how much of it was a choice that you made, an intentional choice that you made, because sometimes folks end up with a mix. And I think it creates a really interesting perspective for our listeners. So take it away. Tell us about your journey.
Alex: Again, just really pleased and happy to be here. That's a great question. And I'll go way back, Scott, you referenced my nearly 30 years working in this sector and in this field. I graduated from Bowdoin with a degree in economics. And a minor in dance and theater. So when I first graduated I really wanted to become a professional dancer.
So I moved to New York, at the time I was in a relationship, and that's what I thought I was going to do. Long story short, that's not what happened. That's not what happened. But what did happen, in the early part of my career, I was an arts administrator. So I worked as a bookkeeper for Urban Bush Women. another modern dance company that still exists. And I worked for choreographers and dance presenters in New York for a period of time. So I want to say about a year, maybe a year and a half or so, I did that kind of work. I transitioned into jobs that were much more focused on youth development, workforce development education in nature, right? So junior achievement, right? Economic education provider. Kaplan, the test prep company, Had stints at organizations like those. Fast forward even further I moved from New York to Rhode Island, and worked for a small arts institution in marketing, development, fundraising, PR. And then that transitioned into, again, direct service, development work, marketing, programmatic work had a stint on the funder side. When I left one organization, I really wanted to understand what it was like to work as someone deploying resources rather than seeking them. And so I was fortunate enough to get a program staff role at the Rhode Island Foundation back in 2006, I want to say. So right, so 2006, stepped over to the funder side for the first time in my professional career. Did that for about four years. Not by chance, but a strategic planning process eliminated that position. I was devastated. I was, it was, it was a hard departure, so to speak, A couple of us were let go. It was emotional. It was a lot. Because I knew that my time on that side of the sector wasn't done. It wasn't complete. I wasn't ready for it to end. So now, fast forward, right? I find myself working here at Philanthropy Massachusetts, working with funders, working with nonprofits.
So I, I honestly think that working here and now that I'm in my third role at Philanthropy, Massachusetts, that's interim Co-Executive Director I think my experience has really prepared me to excel in this particular type of organization within the space. And so it's been six and a half years and I continue to learn from the experience, believe me, and I continue to contribute my voice and my talents to the work.
And I love that. Quite frankly, I love that. I mean, that's why I'm still in it. It's the place I've stayed the longest actually. So that gives you some kind of insight and data. I've stayed here the longest I've ever been in my professional life.
Erin: First, I just want to go back all the way to the beginning. Econ and dance and theater. That is an interesting mix. Also two things I am very bad at. So I appreciate the complementary nature of our skillset in this conversation.
Also, the thing that struck me about the different roles and organizations you touched upon, not only the diversity of focus areas, you know, youth development, workforce development, arts, et cetera, but it sounds like You have been very comfortable in a wide variety of roles.
I heard you say operations. I heard you say administration program management, direct service, resource development, resource deployment. So when I kind of take out that sum total, of course, only what you summarize, and apply it to the longevity of your time at Philanthropy Massachusetts, that being the longest day in your career kind of makes sense. Cause it, it would seem that you would have the opportunity to perhaps dabble in, if not really bring forward that wide range of skills and strengths.
Alex: Erin, you sum that up in a way and gave a rationale in a way that I don't, right. I hadn't put it quite like that, but you're exactly right. Because this current job and the different types of things that I'm doing, over time have just, you know, I've sat in some of those seats, right?
I've sat in the nonprofit seat of having to fundraise to survive. I've sat in the funder seat of having to make decisions about who, what gets supported and invested in and what doesn't. actually doesn't. And existing between those two, those are our two key stakeholders in a lot of ways, right? Like we're a membership organization, so we're comprised of funders and non profits. And so you're right. I mean, I get to sort of, you know, do all of that, play with it, There's so many issues, right? There's so many questions. There are so many problems, quite frankly, to try to address and solve for. So, the work, the work is what keeps me.
There are other organizations that do similar work, right? The work is what keeps me, which is why I've said to myself, you know, the work I'm in this field, even with its complexity and its tension and its disparity, and it's a whole range of things. I'm in it. And until I'm either not learning anything or I feel as though I can't contribute, I'll likely stay within it.
Erin: So then you're in it forever. Because I can't imagine that there wouldn't be contributions.
Alex: I mean, in some shape or form, right? Like, there are all kinds of ways of doing that. You can consult, you can serve as a mentor and a coach and a guide, you can do a million things. So probably, I won't say forever, because that sounds, that sounds like a lot.
Erin: This is what we do. We sign up our guests for lifelong commitments. Did you not read the fine print?
Scott: Right, right.
Alex: Forever. Whoa. But I'm in it for a long time. I'm in it for a long time.
Erin: Good. Good to hear.
Scott: Erin, I wanna, piggyback on, the last question and where we're heading to kind of move towards strengths because Alex, as Erin noted, your work has been across a variety of issue areas. There's been a lot of different types of skills, you know, developed, polished, and practiced, and we'd love to hear, you know, 30 plus years in, when you think about your contributions, like, what do you say you're exceptionally good at?
Alex: I love this question. I'm good at/ enjoy, because part of it for me is if I enjoy it, the likelihood of me succeeding at it, probably increase because I'm into it, you know, like I'm, I'm interested in it. So I love connecting people . I like facilitating conversation and engaging in meaningful, thoughtful, informed conversations. That's fun. It can be tricky and a lot of other things, but it's also fun.
I think I'm a good listener. Right, so one thing I'll share with you, and I'm very open about this, 17 years of therapy. So, 17 years of therapy has enabled me to be pretty self aware. Meaning, I'm just aware of, like, my triggers, I'm aware of my emotions, I'm aware of, I'm mindful, right?
Like, I think that's a skill. I think that's a strength. I think being able to slow down and pay attention to what's really happening, what's happening in my head, what's happening with my body. My ability to do that I think has helped me. It has helped me to be diplomatic and graceful when I need to be.
It has allowed me to be direct and firm and clear when I need to be. It has allowed me to be vulnerable in moments where I'm like, you know what, I'm just gonna show it. I'm just gonna show how I really feel about something. And I believe that people respond to that. I honestly think people respond to a level of candor, a level of vulnerability, a level of openness.
Because, I mean, I'm asking that from people. I'm asking that in my relationships, my personal relationships. And I'm asking people to do something professionally, too. You know, teams I manage. How I think about leadership, how I show my work ethic. I try to role model, honestly, the type of. behavior I want and expect and deserve.
Scott: Mm. There's so much you shared that I want to tuck into, but I, but I'll start with like the mindfulness because I think of that, you know, as, as you were, as you were talking Alex, like that it is something that really requires kind of intentionality and practice. Right. And I think there's some workplaces and probably some you know, training pathways and graduate programs that are being much more forward thinking on this skill and this part of leadership.
But I think of self awareness and the emotional intelligence that goes into managing, mentoring, organizing, you know, community and. I'm curious to hear, like, with that, you, you shared kind of all of the work you've done and curious if there are folks, you know, around you that you point to like, oh, that's a level of mindfulness that, you know, either like I see myself in or I'm aspiring towards.
Alex: I mean, this, these are not folks in the field. I'm really thinking about who cut the people who come to mind immediately for me, honestly, are teachers who I've studied with at a particular center that I participate in silent retreats at.
It's a place called Insight Meditation Society, IMS for short. It's a Buddhist center. So I started in 1999 and I've probably since 99 have participated in about 10 or 11 or so silent retreats. That range from weekend retreats to nine days.
That's been the longest I've sat in silence, so to speak. So the people who come to mind are the teachers at IMS. The folks who lead with compassion, who give what's called Dharma Talks, which are all about self awareness, mindfulness, that intentionality you spoke about being aware of what's happening to then respond and react from a clear place.
Scott: Mm.
Alex: Everybody around me is, like, pretty fast paced, pretty, like, go, go, go. I have to step away from that sometimes. So I do it in silent retreat.
Scott: Right. In the social sector, like where you're seeing it, like, so clearly, you know, it's, it's a reminder you've mentioned in some of our conversations outside of today. So this is a reminder for me to revisit their work.
Alex: Right. They don't pay me.
I'm like a firm believer in the power of silence and just kind of sitting with oneself over periods of time to try to gain clarity.
Erin: Your reflections, Alex, I think touch upon this idea and I think we see it in our society. Number one, there's a pace issue and the social impact sector this kind of mindfulness maturity focused on wellness. I think there's an emerging focus on it. That's coming. But I wonder if we really have to choose between, I think, kind of the demands of pace that we're used to versus the wellness that folks are reaching for right now, where, where we'll end up.
I think it's a really interesting dynamic right now, and I'm glad the conversation is being had. I'm glad that there are schools that are focusing on meditation and daily mindfulness practices.
I've done the same with my son who struggles with some learning differences. And I think helping him center himself in advance of homework or when he's feeling anxiety or things like that. These are not things I was raised with. I am learning literally shoulder to shoulder with him. Sometimes many steps behind, but I think your point is you really need to be intentional about this type of practice because it's not kind of baked in, if you will, to a daily experience.
That said, I'm curious to know how you focus on what I'm going to call mindfulness, but I don't think you necessarily did. So tell me if we should call it something else, but your presence and your pace and your thoughtfulness tell me how that's influenced your choices as a manager of other people.
Alex: That's a good question. Before I go further in responding to that question, Erin I talked about silent retreats and going away for, you know, a weekend up to nine days. The challenge for me still remains how to make it, to your point, baked in. A daily practice and daily thing.
I'm still working on that. Even after however many times I've sat, I'm still working on once I get back from retreat, my husband will tell you like two days later. It's almost like I didn't go on retreat because I'm working at the pace that I'm working. I may be stressing out about a thing at work.
And he's like, wait, Alex, when you came back two days ago, you were very, you were slower, you were calmer, you were more serene. And I'm like, you're right. And then something happened. so I just wanted to say that it's an ongoing daily thing. I'm still working on trying to integrate it into my daily life.
In terms of being a manager, like patience with folks, really trying to understand where folks are coming from, are two ways that I would say my practice has helped me. Because I'm not necessarily immediately going to jump to something being incorrect or like trying to understand where people are coming from, you know, the approach that folks take, why they took that approach again, patience. just being mindful, trying to understand fully and not jump to my own assumptions or conclusions. I mean, that's so easy to do. And the older I get, the more I realize, Oh my God, it's so, it's so much harder to catch it. And in the moment, just don't do it. Right.
Because for years and years and years, I'll take myself as an example. I'm, I'm used to sort of, Oh, that's an assumption that I made, actually, when I really think about that thing. That's an assumption. I was wrong. You know? So, patience and, and really listening, I would think are the two things that come to mind for me when it comes to managing others leadership, and even learning from others
Erin: That makes sense. And it, it, those two things again, it would be two great strengths to use to push back on the rhythms of a pace challenge with that of crisis management or that fast paced expectations we've kind of fallen into as a sector. So I appreciate you're making conscious choices to insert your leadership and to allow folks more space and time to process not to react to figure things out together.
Alex: Yeah, I'm trying to. The other thing is, I've gotten used to responding in a certain way, meaning if someone sends an email or a text message, responding as quickly as I could. But what if actually just giving it a day? Giving it a few more hours? Like, just let me try that approach and see what happens.
And then nine times out of ten, It didn't make a difference that I was like jumping to respond right away compared to just giving it four more hours as opposed to like responding right away. So like, that's a concrete daily example, quite frankly, of like, wait, why do I expect myself to respond immediately to this thing when it doesn't seem urgent?
But the phone, society, kind of pushes you into thinking that you gotta respond, and you gotta respond now. I wouldn't get any work done if in fact I lived in that all the time. Because I'd just be responding to other folks' demands and priorities and things. I would never take the time to step away and say, Oh, I actually need to journal right now.
I need to like, think creatively right now, as opposed to responding. And that goes personal and professional. I mean, I can give countless examples of, Wait, maybe I should have just waited two hours before responding to my mother. As an example,
Scott: Oh, totally. All right. I don't want to rattle this mindfulness space, but I do want to ask you about some rough spots.
Alex: Yeah.
Scott: And this is something that you know, we found so insightful to hear from, you know, hear from our guests. You know, wondering if you can share with us what have been some of the rough spots that you've had as a leader. And as follow up, just to kind of think, like, what did you take away from those experiences?
Alex: Hmm. A rough spot as a leader. I can think of an example. So really just, you know, having someone on the team where communication style wise, it took me some time to fully get and appreciate and understand what works best for this team member in terms of communication. How do I ask for what I need? Do I give a deadline? Do I put it in an email? Do I use the Slack channel? Right? So, you know, do I text? Do I call?
And what I learned with a particular team member is that when I pick up the phone and contact this person, I pretty much immediately get what I need. But when I do other forms of reaching out, they're less effective. They're just less effective.
And so if it's an urgent timely item, I know the way to get what I need. But that took some time and some experiences that weren't the most positive in the world because I would get frustrated. We just missed each other. We just missed each other.
And until we fully understood how best to communicate with each other and giving each other the kind of time that we need to fulfill deadlines, it wasn't working. Or it wasn't working as best as it could. It's much better now, but it took some time.
It took some time to learn that, to understand it and to really work within it in a way that I was healthy.
Scott: Mmm.
Erin: What a fantastic example. of exactly the strengths that you started with around understanding other people's perspectives and having the patience to explore what it means to meet them where they're at to slow down the pace, to not get, you know, the kinds of things you're talking about are deadlines and projects and planning. There's a real tendency to get real impatient when those things are not being met. So, yeah, if this was an interview, I would give you an A plus for alignment between the strengths you've said and the example that you just gave. I don't even think you knew that question was coming, but you nailed it. Thank you.
Alex: And I would go a step further, would you offer me the job?
Erin: Yeah, that already happened. Now we're just, we're learning from you. Yeah, we're putting you to work before we're paying you.
Alex: Usually in the places where I've worked where I've bumped up against frustration. . In a lot of cases, it's boiled down to communication. It's rarely ever about competence or someone's ability to get the thing done. It's rarely in my case, it's rarely been that it's usually it has usually been about We're just missing each other. And can we just talk about like Can we just talk about that? What works for you? What works for me? These are the pressures on me. What are the pressures on you?
And let's just talk about those pressures because we both clearly have them. Let's try to figure out how to reduce them for both of us. Cause I'm feeling it and I don't want to, and you're feeling it too. I can sense it. Let's talk about it.
And I, I haven't said it quite like that to everybody. That's another thing about working, right? Like. The language and the words and the translation that happens right, still my authentic self, but how do I say it in a way that honors who I am, but also allows the other person to be like, Oh, I get it. I get what you mean now. I get that you feel that pressure, but before I didn't, you know, so. There's some translation that goes on, like, all the time.
Erin: It seems like working with you would either require and or help someone build a certain amount of self awareness because you're you really care to meet people where they're at and you're really curious and I think some of the questions you ask maybe maybe some younger folks or folks who have not explored their preferences and needs as much might be learning as they go.
Scott: Mm.
Erin: I'm curious to know if there's been a time where those strengths, that ability to be patient, that ability to, to really invest in the creation of that collaborative relationship I'm curious to know if there have been times when that's worked against you.
Alex: Yeah. Generally speaking I'm a very collaborative type team member. I ask for input. I ask for feedback. I ask like, Oh, you know, what do you think about this? So and so. That can sometimes I can overdo that on occasion, like meaning, actually, no, I don't need a whole lot of input or a whole lot of collaboration on this decision or on this item.
And what I've learned is that, oh, okay, Alex, that is a skill, but sometimes it takes too much time. Sometimes it gives false expectations to folks that, oh, I've given input and feedback. That must mean that what. what's going to end up being the result is what I wanted. And that's not always the case. That's not always the case for lots of reasons, Like I may have the big picture in my head where someone may have not as much of a big picture. And so maybe operating in a different kind of way.
So anyway, it has and can work against me in the sense that it slows the process down and that could have ramifications or an impact. Or, again, it gives false expectations as to, like, the level of input into a particular decision or the result that someone thinks they have because I've asked for your input. And I may have taken that into consideration, but that doesn't necessarily mean that at the end of the day, it's the same result that you wanted.
That can be really hard. So I'm, I continue to work on, like, asking myself the question, how much input feedback collaboration is necessary for this project compared to, I think I got this, not I think I got this, you know, and let's just go with it. So that's an ongoing thing for me, right?
I mean, I talked about weaving in daily practice. This is no different. I asked myself the question, how much collaboration, how much team spirit, how much of that is necessary?
Erin: The concept of input and feedback, I think those words are weighted and mean different things to different people. And sometimes what I hear you saying is it might mean something different in this process to you than the next one. And so that expectation setting can be challenging for sure.
Alex: And for me, like how to strengthen that muscle, like get even more clear about I'm asking your input, this is actually how I'm going to use it.
Erin: Well, when you figure that out. I know a lot of people who would benefit from hearing from you on it. So just circle back, circle back.
Alex: Okay. I love that.
Scott: So Alex, can you share a little bit about how and why your approach to blending work and life may have evolved over various phases of your career? And what's your current approach?
Alex: Yeah. So I think a fair amount about integration. So, for a long time, and these are dinner conversations, like I have conversations with my husband about this, like, a fair amount. He too is in the sector, I can bring home work stuff, talk about challenges and opportunities, and he's like, I get it, I get it, Which I didn't necessarily expect to have that in my life, right? Like someone who is in a similar field and so can speak a very, very similar language. Which is very supportive and helpful to me, quite frankly, right? Like, I can just go at it, and he'll be like, oh yeah, I understand that dynamic.
So for a long time, I thought about work in terms of like the traditional sort of work schedule. I would work and try my best to leave work at work when I left it. Right? I was like, work shouldn't dominate, Like it shouldn't dominate my life. I don't really necessarily want to be thinking about it or stressed out when I'm home.
Over time, I have to be honest, like I've moved to integrating it into my life. And who knows if that's just a cop out because I couldn't compartmentalize, but I enjoy what I do. And so for me, it's like, okay, why can't I have dinner at home, eight o'clock at night, not when I'm at work, talk about work? And not beat myself up about the fact that I'm bringing work home with me, you know. Or if I'm running in the Arboretum, right.
And I'm thinking about work, I'm okay with that. Whereas for a while, I think I judged that and thought, wait, why am I doing that? Like, that's not great. That's unhealthy. That's work taking over. Like I had all these things around what that meant. And now I'm like, you know what? It's just, that's what it is. I enjoy what I do. I take it very seriously. So what I bring it home?
Having said that, stepping away for silent retreat, going on a two week Costa Rica vacation and not barely thinking about work stepping off the grid and literally like not being reachable. I'm still a fan of. You know, I'm still very much a fan because, for two weeks, things would likely be okay.
And they were! The same things that I left were right here the minute I got back. Which reminds me that like, work is still work. And again, I enjoy it, in a lot of ways I love what I do, and I've got to be able to carve out space for other things. My family, exercising, I'm a foodie, so going out, like, I mean, I just try to pay attention.
And, there are going to be moments where I'm restless because things at work are on my mind. And again, I'm trying not to judge that, but just pay attention to it. Right? And don't let it get out of control. There are going to be moments that are stressful, that drive me nuts. That I have some self doubt.
All these things that, like, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that, and I don't try to, like, completely separate, completely compartmentalize. There are moments when I need to do that, but I no longer, like, strive to try to separate the two. They're woven together, and that's okay. If I didn't enjoy what I did, I think I'd feel differently.
Scott: There's so much, Alex, thinking about like individuals who are drawn to the social sector, right? You know, that there's, there is this integration, this blending, you know, the, the, the braiding of kind of self and other and community and whether, you know, any of those things are family, friends, like our neighbors, that why it makes sense that there's so much that is bound and wrapped together and it's, you know, and it's healthy at times.
And to recognize that we don't have to beat ourselves up, you know, when work like sneaks into our brain, but also having the balance to recognize, like, how do we be present for those things in our life, like outside of our jobs.
And often that does require some sort of you know, either just like putting it towards the back or, you know, downshifting the conversation from earlier today that's like still front of lobe so that we can show up for our partners and friends or enjoy that like a great meal out.
Alex: Yeah. It's going back to the word we used earlier, just intention, being intentional. And I think you're right that being present sometimes it's harder than at other times, but, right, my belief is that I'm striving towards it, if I'm cognizant of it, I think it'll be a little bit better, because at least I'm aware, like, oh, right, I'm thinking about work, but we're actually on vacation right now.
Or, planning the next vacation, figuring out what those activities are outside of work, are ways to keep it going, right? To keep those other aspects moving, But if I'm not planning, if I'm not looking forward and sort of thinking about what's the next fun thing we're going to do together, you know, in the case of my relationship or like, the holiday, whatever., I mean, just really getting ahead of those things can help, can certainly help,
Erin: I think this idea of noticing but not judging ourselves, I mean, that your, your voice and your words are very similar to lesson one in my meditation app, which I've been stuck on for like three years, but I'm, I'm almost there.
Noticing, not judging oneself. But I'm curious to know, with all that said, it sounds like you really take an intentional, proactive approach to planning out your fun. I'm curious to know if you've ever reached a point where you realize like, oh, I need a break and how you realized it.
Alex: Yeah, so early on into later on in the pandemic. So, like, right? When business for us at Philanthropy Massachusetts, we were just doing so much in the way of funder education, nonprofit training and things. At the start of the pandemic that we went from, I forget the numbers, but something like nearly doubling the number of convenings we were doing was all virtual, right? So we used to be most entities in person without programming, and we a hundred percent shifted to virtual. And that opened up access to everybody throughout the state of Massachusetts. We're a statewide organization, but we were very Boston centric pre-pandemic, right? No surprise.
We were very Boston centric pre pandemic, and are not so now. So, but there were moments. In those 2020 and 2021, where we were working a ton and that has slowed down to a certain extent but in the very beginning it was kind of a hot mess in the sense that like I was approaching burnout. I was reading about the symptoms of burnout and I was like, oh wait, I have some of those symptoms. We've grown in staff since then. So things have shifted and changed.
Erin: Such an intense time.
Alex: Right. And I think a lot of us felt it not only in our bodies, but in our, it's so much was affected, right. Relationships were impacted by so many things.
Erin: Everything changed. How we do schooling, work, grocery shopping. The list goes on.
Alex: And I don't know if we've fully, recognized or really seen the full ramifications and impact of the changing of the world. I think we're likely to still see the effects of that radical shift and change.
Erin: I agree. I agree. But it sounds like a positive for your organization was to broaden access to your offerings.
Alex: Business wise, it was good for us. No question about it.
Scott: All right. So Alex, I want to shift gears a little bit and am curious to hear the best advice you've ever received or given, or some of the best pieces of advice you've ever received or have given.
Alex: So this is easy because I was thinking about this just the other day. The former CEO of Philanthropy Massachusetts, and I'll just name them, Jack Boulos, I remember sitting in a meeting with this was, After he had shared the news of his departure, but before he was out the door. And I remember he and I were talking about leadership.
And I remember him, and I'm paraphrasing, but it was something like, Alex, lead in the ways that you lead. Just lead in the ways that you lead. They don't have to be like me. They don't have to be like anybody else. Lead how you lead, because you're doing it. He didn't say it quite like that, but that's what I left feeling. Right, it almost doesn't matter what he said, in some ways.
What I felt was how I lead, how I role model the type of behavior as a leader that I do, just keep doing that.
Another piece of advice given, maybe it's advice is the therapist. I'll quote him. Two words. Own it. And what he means simply is, Own your strengths. Own your assets.
Own your voice. Own it. Just inhabit it. Own that, because that is what people respond to. And so, at home, in my home office, I have a little placard on the wall that just reads, Own It. So that I remind myself when I'm doubting, just think about that, just sit with that.
Scott: I love that Alex.
Alex: That's not about cockiness. That's not about bravado. That's not about anything. That is about owning it. And I'm like, okay, got it. Let me just keep practicing it. It's a practice. It's a practice. Sometimes I don't really own it, but I'm attempting to own it every single time.
Erin: You're owning that you're working on owning it!, So it all works out.
Alex: Owning it squared, right?
Scott: Yeah. That's right.
Erin: Are we ever done owning it? I don't think so. But I even saw your shoulders pop up your, your, like, as we say that, and this is true for all of us there's a certain confidence to that statement. It's like, it's like, like a grounded confidence that comes from that statement. So, well, I think lots of people will be quoting you as they go around saying, own it now.
Alex: And I'm going to be quoting you the grounded confidence, Grounded confidence. I like that.
Erin: All right. Who said that? Good job them.
Alex, this has been just a true joy to spend this time with you. Thank you so much for the intention, the thought. I mean, it's all on brand, so it makes sense, but it's, it's you. It's how you show up. It's how you lead the way you lead. So we really appreciate you sharing this time with us and, and offering so much wisdom to our listeners.
Alex: Erin, Scott, thank you.
Scott: Alex, thank You so much. Thank you so much.
Erin: And if folks want to connect with you or learn more about you, what's the best way for them to be in touch?
Alex: LinkedIn? Just LinkedIn me.
Erin: Perfect. Perfect. Well, I'm glad that this hopefully added some joy to your day now that we know how important that is. It
Alex: Yes.
Erin: Certainly did for us. So Thank you.
Alex: Thank you.
Scott: Yeah. Thank you, Alex.
Alex: See you both. Take care.
Scott: Take good care.