Resilience and Resets with Yi-Chin Chen

In this illuminating episode of the Lead and Live Well podcast, hosts Erin Cox and Scott Knox engage in a profound conversation with Yi-Chin Chen, the Executive Director of Friends of the Children Boston. Sharing her remarkable journey from a high school dropout to a leading figure in the social impact space, Yi-Chin reflects on the pivotal moments, challenges, and mentors that shaped her leadership philosophy. With her unique perspective as a "third culture Bostonian," Yi-Chin discusses the role of identity, the power of embracing chaos, and the importance of nurturing one's multifaceted self for impactful leadership. Through stories of personal growth and professional evolution, Yi-Chin offers invaluable insights into leading with authenticity, fostering resilience, and the ongoing quest for work-life harmony. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the nuances of social impact leadership and the transformative power of embracing one's own path.

Hosted by Erin Cox and M. Scott Knox
Edited and Produced by Stephanie Cohen

Transcript

Erin: Welcome to the Lead and Live Well podcast. My name is Erin Cox, and I'm thrilled to be here with my co host Scott Knox on the Lead and Live Well podcast. We sit down with leaders in the social impact world to learn about their leadership journeys. We talk about their strengths and passions, the transitions they have made in their career, and how they have crafted their own paths to leadership.

Our goal is to highlight a diverse array of leaders and journeys, so that our listeners learn from relatable and compelling examples of what it means to lead and live well.

Scott: Hey, Erin. It's great to be here.

Erin: Today we are featuring a high energy, warm, impressive, compassionate, just amazing person and leader in the social impact space. 

 Yi-Chin Chen is the executive director of Friends of the Children Boston, a Roxbury based organization dedicated to impacting generational change by empowering young people facing the most difficult challenges through professional mentoring relationships from kindergarten to high school graduation, no matter what. Love that through her work with thousands of young people since the late 1990s, she has developed a keen understanding of the role young people must play in shaping the futures for our society. As an immigrant, a daughter of the Taiwan Island, a third culture Bostonian and a youth worker, she spends her time exploring and knitting together the possibilities that exist in the in-between places of all of her identities. Welcome, Yi-Chin.

Yi-Chin: Thank you for having me!

Scott: It's so great to see you and I'm so excited for our conversation today.

Yi-Chin: Me too. Take it easy on me, please. 

Erin: No can do. No deal. No deal. We are gonna get into it. But part of the reason, and there's so many, frankly, that we are excited to have you engage in this conversation is that I just think you have such a warmth and such an ability to share wisdom in a really unassuming, humble way. And I don't think you appreciate how much wisdom you share. So I hope this experience and any feedback you get from it helps you appreciate that more about yourself because I certainly come away feeling like uplifted and like I've learned a lot every time we connect, 

Yi-Chin: Thank you so much.

Scott: In Erin's intro, she used the expression third culture. Will you, will you define that for us?

Yi-Chin: Yeah. You know, I think it's an identity that I'm still trying to explore, right? And I felt like in my journey, I found something that finally described who I am and, you know, I'm an immigrant and you know, somebody who came from a deeply rooted, very, very rich culture. Where I grew up on an island of Taiwan and came here as an immigrant and as a woman and as a leader in the nonprofit space, I find myself in, in between spaces quite a lot definitely not, you know, the dominant culture.

And I think what would have been kind of. You know, considering minority culture also doesn't quite describe me just because I feel like I'm in this in-between space all the time. And I remember talking, attending a lecture by Junot Diaz way back in the day, when he talked about home exists in the in between places, and that really kind of got me into thinking about what that looks like, and I came across the term third culture, and I was like, that's it, right?

Like, it's not the dominant one, it's not the one that oftentimes people talk about as the minority representing culture, it's really the one that is very, very fluid and it's one that is still developing, and I love that. So, that, you know, that, that has stuck since.

Scott: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And I imagine as, as you and Erin and I talk today, that kind of like, that lived experience and that perspective is gonna find its way into our conversation.

Yi-Chin: Yeah, for sure. 

Erin: And I just think the way you shared that about how the part of the point of it is that it's an evolution. So too are you. And I know that you've had a really interesting career trajectory so far so I want to dive into it. And I think what I'm most curious about is you kind of talk through the different steps you've taken in your career. we're really curious to know why and how you made the choices that you made as you've, you've kind of evolved and grown your leadership and in particular, I know for you this idea of chance versus choice like what's at play or how much of each is really resonant with you.

So I'm going to leave it to you. Dive in. We're going to ask follow ups. We're going to have some fun with this.

Yi-Chin: All right. You know, when I was a kid, I loved baseball. Like every other Taiwanese kid that was staying up watching the little leagues world series. Right. And I thought my dream was a baseball announcer, like a sportscaster. I thought I would travel the island and go to all the games and, you know, be the person that shares that love with folks.

And it didn't turn out that way. I wasn't particularly a great student. I actually dropped out of high school when I was age 16 because my childhood was relatively messy. And when you look around, I think for folks like me, sometimes we don't see a very clear map of what the trajectory is supposed to look like because there's no one before you that's had a pretty clear path, right?

I mean, and we now know that representation matters. But Before it's like I don't see anyone like me having a very clear path that kind of shows me where and so, so I do feel like that shaped the first at least early part of my career has really been about survival. It's like, okay, what do I need, and how do I get what I need immediately? And that really started with I know that during the summertime, I needed a job when I was in college. And I thought to myself, well, let me look at what is available. And I applied for a job working for a summer program and within Boston Public Schools.

That was my first ever youth work experience. I didn't know that I would fall in love with that. It was literally just like, It's the job that I think that I can do. I still remember that interview very vividly and, you know, can't believe they gave me a job. Um, But I walked away thinking, like, maybe there was something there.

And so I think it's a lot of driving towards, like, I think for someone, I didn't have a very clear map and it's, It's taken a lot of both getting out of survival mode for me to be able to really slow down enough to ask myself the question of saying, what opportunities do I want to seek for myself? And that took a few years.

So, I think, you know, I am very fortunate to have stumbled upon the path of youth work. But more importantly, also very fortunate to have had people along the way. That saw things that I didn't see in myself and pushed me to say yes, even if I was scared to say yes for myself. Right? Like this is, this is one of the things like, you know, I remember my former boss, Claudio Martinez, who many people in the city knows, approached me and said, you know, I think you can, you can actually be a program director and take on leadership positions.

I was like, I don't, I'm not sure if that's what I wanted to do or could do. I don't know if I have what it takes, but if Claudio said I could, maybe I'll give it a try. And, and I think it's that moment of giving yourself a chance to say yes. Because someone who you trust so implicitly and, and who has watched you grow said that you could.

I later now know it, you know me investing in myself. And I think that's really the trajectory is like moving from survival to finding a safe space where feeling like growth is possible and then now actively investing in opportunities for myself. I think that's a good way of really talking about my trajectory.

Cause if you were to ask me, the me when I was 20 years old, 21 years old. Like, can you imagine yourself being where I am right now? I'll be like, no. Definitely not.

Erin: There's so much in what you, what you've just offered So first of all, you haven't yet been a baseball announcer. 

Yi-Chin: No.

Erin: You can always pivot.

Yi-Chin: It's funny 'cause I can't stand baseball now. Like, I mean, I still like to watch it once in a while, but it's so slow. I'm like, oh my God, why did I like this?

Scott: Ha ha ha ha ha.

Erin: we'll put a pin in that one and come back around but it actually makes more sense. I was like, she's really fast paced and that is not baseball. But anyway this transition from like survival / needs focused to safe space / like okay, head up, eyes open, but there, you also described a little bit of like, maybe a lack of confidence.

in you, right? Like it was, your confidence kind of was externalized in folks like Claudio and things like that. At two now actively investing in your growth. Talk about that last transition, like how did you go from being like eyes open to possibilities to now

like investing in growth and what helped you make that transition?

Yi-Chin: yeah. You know that's such a good question and, and in so many ways I'm not quite there yet. Right. Like when y'all first reach out to me, I was like, me, what podcast are you? Sure? And I think there is always a part of me that didn't have it. And I think maybe one of the things, and , I told Erin about this conversation.

At one point during my career, I had a conversation with someone who was also an Asian woman in the field, and has been working, you know, in the field for a while. And she said, "there's no one like you." And so I think I keep looking for the confidence that I can find in others as examples of what that's supposed to look like.

And at some point I realized that I would be the example for somebody else.

Scott: mm,

Yi-Chin: And I think that was a big deal for me, right? Like, of like, not seeking that external validation because there simply isn't any and understanding that, oh, maybe I could do that for others. And I think another thing that is important is I'm just in community with a lot of people who really embrace the idea of failing and being okay with it.

And I think if you're, if you're surrounded by people who let you fail, right, and still love you unconditionally. I feel like since I left home, I've just been surrounded by folks like that. It makes it easier for you to say yes to things that you're scared of, because what are we scared of? Like we're scared of failing, right?

We're scared of not being good enough. And if you are surrounded by people that. that still love you even in the moment when you feel unlovable, it makes it easier for you to take a chance on yourself. So I really think I'm just a product of being loved by so many people and being cared for by so many people and now wanting to do that for others.

Erin: That's beautiful. 

Scott: That is so beautiful, Yi-Chin. And, and, and just like that recognition of the role of when someone around you, you know, especially in a professional setting shows you how to make a mistake or how to, you know, acknowledge or work with a mistake you know, to claim it. I was just talking to a, former supervisor of mine who I ran into and she was my manager in like the late 20s and that was one of the things that I shared was the biggest takeaway was, you know, she kind of owned the kinks in the armor and the mistakes and there's that like what it gives to us in those, you know, in those moments in the day to day identity as, a nonprofit employee, team member. But then there's also like this more macro piece of like our direction, you know, our, our career aspirations. And you know, we feel a little bit more confident making mistakes.

Yi-Chin: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. 

Erin: I would love to dive into the things that make you special and awesome. Your strengths, tell us what you're exceptionally good at. and if there's anecdotes around when you realized those strengths, because sometimes , the things that we're just naturally good at we just kind of don't even give it merit because it just comes so naturally to us. 

Yi-Chin: So I think the easiest way I can talk about it is I'm really comfortable in messiness and in chaos. And I consider that a strength because. Things are not linear, right? Like I, I am able to kind of walk into something that's multi dimensional and there are collisions of very, very sharp points and, and, and from all different corners and be able to kind of decipher, how do you prioritize?

How do you, how do you like make sense of this? And how do you know, figure your way? Either carve away within the chaos or find a way out. Sometimes the chaos is just chaos and you have to figure out how to, like, organize the chaos, right? So I think I realized that when I find myself. being very calm when things get really complicated, when others would just get really frazzled and wanting systems and wanting to know what the next step is.

I find myself kind of sitting back and being like, Yeah, I can, I can play with this. And I see that in kind of team settings, I probably early on in careers and both, in messy situations, I feel awfully calm and feel like I can decipher this. And so that I think has been really helpful as a leader because we don't always find ourselves in very neat situations. In fact, most days are super messy. 

Erin: Well, and it sounds like it's not even, it's not only just comfort, but there's like there, when you said I can play with this, there was like a confidence and a joy that came through in your voice. And I would imagine that. Watching or experiencing getting to partner with you and in those types of situations, folks can flip their own script on what it means to be in chaos and what it means to have to pivot 

Yi-Chin: yeah, I, I think that's something that's learned, you know, I, I realized that I am very rare. Most people don't like chaos. And so what I actually found when I started leading teams is that I can be a little frustrating for some of the people that work with me. Cause I would sit there and I'll be like.

This is great. And they're like, no man, like, what? We can't, we need some water. Like, what is happening right now? And so, so I think, I think it's, it's being able to kind of be perceptive and be like, Oh, I'm with a group of people who really, they need clarity from me right now. Like they need. me to communicate that I know how to get ourselves out of this or you know what I'm thinking and rather than just being like, yeah, this is fine, you know, in the midst of a dumpster fire and I think that took a while to to don't understand because they would get really frustrated and I'll be like, why are y'all getting frustrated?

Like, this is great. And I think it took a couple of people being very honest with me to say. "Hey, people really need directions. And I know, you know you, you have it in, in, in your head, like how to get us there and might want to share with other people. So people don't feel like they're being let into, you know, a wildfire with no way out."

So that's been a big learning lesson for me as a leader of like, Sometimes my strength can create, you know, uncertainty for folks and, and being very super aware of that. And also at the same time, modeling afterwards and being like, okay, well, you know, especially for folks that are very systems oriented that really like neatness.

How do you kind of increase the tolerance for a little messiness? And those become like a good coaching points.

Scott: I love that so much Yi-Chin. I'm just thinking about, you know, both the Recognition of strength, recognition of that kind of superpower in the context of a team and how that shows up for others. And I think, you know, especially in spaces when we're working with young people and young adults, like even with all of the best system structures, curriculum, socio-emotional supports, you name it, there's still so much unpredictability.

And having someone like you in the room, I imagine You know, offers immense peace of mind consciously or otherwise to your colleagues.

Yi-Chin: I hope so. I think I do know that sometimes I mean, and, and, you know, I think all of us have worked with teams before, right? So knowing that you really, as a leader, you have to read the room. And there, I think some parts of it is me learning to be able to read the room and say, wait, hold on.

 People really need to know what we're doing here. Rather than being like, that's just blow everything up and then figure it out, how to piece it back together, which is, I love to do, and they're like, no, we're not doing that. So, yeah, I'm a work in progress.

Erin: I imagine you surround yourself with folks who have more of that systems and operations because you run a big shop. You're incredibly successful and that, you know, it sounds like you have a real appreciation for the complimentary work styles that you need around you. How do you invite folks who want more of that order and that systems into the gray in a way that builds comfort with it?

Hmm. Hmm.

Yi-Chin: Such a good question. I think you have to take it slow. The folks that really like systems and like clarities, it's not necessarily that they don't like chaos. A lot of the time it's, it's simply because there isn't clarity of where we're going at the end, right? And so what I learned is.

One, you got to be receptive to feedback. I think being able to say to folks, Hey, listen, I'm going to push right like, and this is I wish we should have had a team meeting today where I said to the folks like, you're going to feel me pushing a little bit hard right now. And what I need you to do is to not immediately reject it.

But let me know if that push feels unbearable or that it may be a little bit too hard. It has to be a two way street. And you can't just push people out of their comfort zone without them feeling it's safe to do so. I think there is the, there's like the, you know, the learning comfort zone and then there's the unsafe zone and you want to be right in between, right?

You want someone to be Just a little bit out of their comfort zone doing something that they're just a tiny little bit scared of, but they can feel your hand you know, behind them. And I think that's so important because you can't just kind of shut people into the abyss, particularly if you are someone like me that don't have a map, but you're not seeing folks like you.

and sometimes you fear that you also have this immense responsibility on your shoulder that feels like if you don't do well, it's not just your personal failure, but it's a failure of your people. Like I'm, you know, I'm Taiwanese American, which means I carry so much of that. That it's, it makes you question and it makes you hesitate to take any risk.

And so I think giving them the permission to fail and fail again and fail again. But also know that you're right behind them and you know that, that you're with them is really important. Also, as a leader, I've learned that There are some weeks you just don't push like, you know, you have to know your folks like my team is having a really tough week this week.

You have to read the room. You have to understand what is the right time. 

Erin: You heard it here first. Yi-Chin's team, she's not going to blow anything up this week. You're safe. 

Yi-Chin: week. Maybe not. I can't promise next week that I won't, but, you know.

Scott: We were chatting a little bit about this earlier, you know, around this kind of ease and comfort with, you know, the unknown and the chaos, as you said it. And I'm curious to talk a little bit about what have been some of your rough spots as a leader. I mentioned it to your strength, cause you highlighted that, recognizing that not everyone shares that same comfort. 

Yi-Chin: Yeah. I think one of the things, and this is where the conversation is going to kind of start leading into each other. I have a tendency to kind of just white knuckle through things. If my knuckles aren't white, the first thing I ask myself is like, well, are we working hard enough?

so almost all of my rough spots have had something to do with that. it's that, that inherent conflict between driving myself to do, but then also whether or not my external environment and meaning my team and, you know, the work that we have to do is ready for that level of brute force.

And it's oftentimes like pushing people too hard, not listening and I think that's been a very difficult thing to reconcile because, you know, I think in many ways you think about those things as your strength and right. Those things are things that have gotten you to where you are today.

And yet you find them to be maladaptive. Now you find them to be the roadblock and you have become your own barrier to where you need to go. And so I think it's being willing to. continue to evolve and let go of things, even if they are very, very important to you, like I feel like my work ethics, my ability to kind of push through really difficult moments is like my trademark, right?

Like people, that's how I earn people's trust. That's how I earn people's respect. That's how I earn, you know my, that's how I earn my keep in the world. And and letting go of that can be scary because then it's like if you don't have that there are days when I kind of sit in the in in the silence at the end of the day and I say I know everyone feels great about today But I don't feel so good, 

right, because it's so different from how I have experienced myself and so like it, it requires a lot of reflection, and it requires a lot of letting go.

, I would say the remedy for that is, to have a good, like, I'm, I'm a community person to have a good group of people who you can talk through some of these things with people that can be good mirrors for you. 

And I can imagine that hopefully at the end I become a better person because of it, too. 

Scott: Good mirrors are so important. I'm curious, can you share with Erin and I, who, who are some of those folks you go to? Like, and what's their relationship to you in your life?

Yi-Chin: Yeah, I have several. I think within my organization, my senior director of program, Marie Smith, is someone for me. You know, I think there was a period of time when I was really, really burned out. So this was around the time that we were moving office. And I also have a ton of stuff going on in my personal life.

And that white knuckling was just not working. And I didn't realize that I was just like, well, if I just keep showing up and keep pushing, that'll be fine. And I remember showing up to work one day and Had just particularly been a very hard week. We're preparing for the move and things are super messy at home and you know, whatever.

And she pulled me aside and said, "I don't know what's going on with you right now, but people can see it and you have to pull yourself together." I didn't know that I was showing up any differently. I was the executive director and she was my direct report to have the courage to kind of pull your executive director aside and be like You have to put your ish together because people are watching you.

It was such a wake up call. And also just in that moment, so incredibly grateful that she was there because it really woke me up to say, yeah, I'm not okay. And so I think those are the kind of things that, you know, I think for sure she's, she's one that I can always count on to be a good mirror for me. . 

Scott: So soo important. And just like to quickly like, recognize your colleague who, you know, felt comfortable and believed in the relationship that the two of you had, and, and kudos to you for kind of being that accessible in a moment like that. That's it.

Erin: And building the trust, that foundation that she knew it wasn't that much of a risk, it was one she was willing to take. That's really incredible. 

Yi-Chin: Yeah, no, I'm grateful for her. 

Erin: Your reflections are bringing up for me the dynamics of like force and pace and leadership. And I feel like one of the things I work with a lot of clients on, I know I've worked on myself.

With this site, like this idea of when we are only responsible for controlling our own force and pace. Like you said, we can white knock all and get it. done and made things happen. And suddenly when we're responsible for bigger and broader teams or initiatives over a longer period of time, that same nudging or white knuckling or forcing just doesn't have the same impact.

And it's a huge realization to have, and in many ways it could set a group back, because, you know, you get, you get short term responses or wins when you're constantly in crisis, but it's not going to be the long term strategy that's going to work for a broader group of people or a bigger initiative.

You've talked us through so many different key transitions and you as a leader, and I'm just wondering, like, What's the leadership plateau or the major question you're asking yourself right now? 

Yi-Chin: Yeah. I think for me the biggest one is, do I have the activation energy to get us to the next. place that we need to get to. I've done a lot of that push, you know, throughout my career in the last 20 years of like getting over a big hump, right? Like my organization, we just took on a five year strategic plan.

 and I think every morning I kind of wake up and I have the strategic plan in my head, like that's like to 2027. And, you know, I know what it would take. And I said to myself, Well, how many boxes of Wheaties do I need to eat to get there and,

Scott: I love that.

Yi-Chin: And do I have that? And so, you know, I'm driven by doubt, right?

It's like the more doubtful I am of myself, the better job I do. It's very, it's a very unhealthy dynamic. Like zero out of 10 would not recommend it for anybody. Right. And, but yeah, like that has always been my driver. But I think at this point is always like, am I the right person? And oftentimes I think then that turned into the conversation.

Am I playing the right role to get the results that we want? I think all leaders should ask themselves that question every day, right? Like, are you playing the right role to get your mission to where it needs to go?

And are you the right person doing it? What is there someone else within your organization or within the universe that should be doing this? So I think being able to always keep that in the forefront of my mind is a big one. And I think secondly, is like, am I learning fast enough to catch up to the world we're in today?

 even, I think there is a, there's a two, you know two facets of someone who has been doing this for a while, right? Like I became a youth worker in the late nineties where some of my staff have not even been born yet. And. for sure, you build up a lot of experience, skill sets and so on and so forth.

But I also recognize that, you know, if you've done it for a while, you can be stuck in your own ways. And so, am I exposing myself enough to continue to learn from others? Are we, am I learning from the same set of people over and over again? Like I started to kind of get into a habit of asking myself who do I meet this week that I didn't know before?

What were some of the new things that I learned that I didn't think about before? It is a big one. I think this, this, like, continuing learning. And am I learning fast enough to lead the organization of the future and lead the team of the future as well as am I still the right person or am I playing the right role?

Those are the big questions that are constantly swirling.

Erin: You have offered the gift of basically like the headlines to the chapters of the book on social impact leadership, you know, some of you. So now you just got to go back and fill in the blanks, and then you'll have a book. 

Yi-Chin: I mean, I'm hoping people will help me fill in the blank because I don't have the answers.

Erin: Also, I so appreciate the Wheaties reference.

Scott: Yes. Same. Same.

Erin: At UAspire I used to organize our like annual all staff gathering and we, you know, we never had any budget for staff appreciation for everyone who helped organize it but one year we bought Wheaties so there's a lot of Wheaties he had to eat. We took people's headshots and made them their own box. 

Yi-Chin: cool! 

Erin: The reference was lost on some of the younger generation.

Scott: Yeah. Yeah.

Erin: But I'm pretty sure I still have mine somewhere because it was my gosh, that's funny. Oh, that's awesome. What a good idea.

Scott: I know. I love that It was fun. It was fun.

Erin: You've referenced this a little bit throughout the conversation, but I'm, I'm curious to know, like, work, life, how do you blend them? How's it working?

Yi-Chin: doing a little bit better than I was. My good friend Yolanda Pointreau all my friends are in the sector. You know, start talking about work life harmony rather than life integration, right? Instead of balance. And I think that probably is what I hope to achieve and what I'm working to achieve.

There was a time in my career where like my life is my work. Like there was no line, everything kind of blurred together and And now I'm, you know, I have a family and, and, and more importantly, I think I am coming out of that burnout, you know that we talked about four or five years ago. I started asking myself the question of like, who am I?

Because I think one of the things that led me to my burnout was that I have allowed myself to become a one dimensional, like there was, I did not bother to invest in all of me. And, and I think while it made me a great leader on behalf of the mission that I'm really, really passionate about, it also left really big gaping holes in my life.

Like, I have completely just neglected any of the, you know, cultural ceremonial things and And you know, personal relationships and more importantly, there was a, you know, a creative fire that, that was starting to kind of go out that I never, I just didn't even invest in. And so I think actively pouring back into myself has actually helped open even more perspectives for me.

I took up photography. You see a lot of like photos in the back. I, you know, pick up. Guitar. I'm kind of a like an all or nothing person. It's like another really toxic trait. I just learned how to crochet last weekend and proceeded to crochet like two major projects because like, you know, I don't know how to do anything in between.

But I think being able to invest in that kind of stuff has allowed me to bring all of that energy back into my work and that took a burnout to get there. One of the things that was the scariest of the burnout was that if I don't recover from this, I don't know who I am and I didn't want to ever feel that again, right?

Like if I can't kind of like. not do what I do every day and still feel like I'm still a person and I still have multiple dimensions to me. That was a scary place. And, and I think so now it's like, I still love my work and I love being, you know where I am professionally, and I still feel so passionate about the work that we do with our young people in the communities that I feel so invested in, and I also love my photography, and I also, and I find ways to weave them as much as possible, but also being super okay that they are completely separate from my, my work identity.

Scott: So appreciate you sharing that, Yi-Chin. Cause I think, you know, certainly for myself and I think so many people, we, we hit those moments when we, you know, we have to take stock of, what we've chosen either consciously or otherwise to prioritize and what in our life is just going through either complete neglect or just rotated neglect. And, it's so healthy You know, for us, for the organizations and the communities that we're a part of.

Yi-Chin: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Scott: Yi-Chin, I'm, I'm curious. It's a two part question. What's the best advice or one of the best pieces of advice that you've received? And what's one of the best pieces of advice you think you've given to someone else?

Yi-Chin: Yeah. The best advice I've ever received is a quote that I cannot remember where it came from. I think it was from one of the fictional novels that I read. It says, the beautiful thing about being a human is that with every sunrise, There is a built in opportunity to do over. And I think for somebody who's like, just think of this as just one giant continuous effort to just keep pushing it's hard to recover from mistakes.

But I think that that quote has helped me start each day to say today is actually an opportunity to do over. Right, like, if you had a bad day. That's one bad day. Tomorrow is a do over and our universe has this built in reset with every single sunrise. And I think it was just so beautiful. I don't know about the best advice I've given to others. I've given a lot of really bad ones. Yeah,

Scott: Part of the territory. You have to give some bad advice before there's good advice.

Yi-Chin: I give bad advice. I give bad directions. And so Well, the best advice that I gave was probably something this way because I think as soon as I left my mouth I'm, just like oh, that was a really good one. I need to remember that for myself

Erin: Nice. Well, now we're going to record it. So here we go.

Scott: Yeah. Yeah.

Yi-Chin: sometimes In order to fix something that's broken, you have to actively break it and start something brand new instead of putting something that's broken back together. I think we're so used to fixing things and I'm willing to let go and start something brand new. And this was in reference to like, you know, this was just a really, really tough week for my team.

Like there was a ton of stuff going on with everything that's going on. And some of our staff just feel like. They aren't kind of willing to let go of some of the things that aren't working anymore. And, and I think I, what I said to them was, you know don't think of it as giving up. Think of it as starting something trying something new. So yeah, I would say, don't be afraid of starting a new new circle if the last one is broken.

Scott: So good. 

Erin: I love that. 

Scott: Same.

Erin: I think you've offered so many different frames and reframes for things that people might, otherwise find to be real challenges. Like chaos. Or needing to, let something go, so much of your wisdom is really bringing forward that there's opportunity in all of these types of changes. We just have to kind of open up our eyes and hearts to see it.

Yi-Chin: Yes. And with every sunrise, there is a building opportunity for a do over. 

Scott: I love that. 

I love that. 

Erin: Fantastic. You are a person who clearly has done so much intentional thought about your own development, your trajectory, where you want to go next have there been any tools, articles, resources, trainings, things that you've had access to that you could point other people who maybe have similar questions or on the precipice of similar plateaus that really had a big impact on you.

Yi-Chin: Yeah. There are, I think, a few. I think in particular, hopefully this will be relevant to the time that we're in right now. I think the first thing that came to mind was this concept or theory framework called three box solution um, by So Vijay is a Dartmouth professor. His name is Vijay. Govinda Raja, I'm not saying his last name correctly.

He goes by Vijay. I love the three box framework of, of selectively forgetting the past, you know, listening to the quiet. Signals of the future. But also investing in the presence and, you know and, and that I think as a leader, oftentimes we spend a lot of time in the two boxes of the past and the, and the present and forgetting that some past needs to just be forgotten. and also paying attention to the quiet, you know, signal of the future. I love that. I love that. So I highly recommend the three box solution by Vijay and Theory U is another one. This comes out again, this is about like, How do you learn from the future as it emerges? It's all about paying attention, not just with your mind, but with your heart.

 I think for me, I'm at the renaissance phase of my life where I'm taking lessons from all places including Korean dramas. Lots of life lessons come out of Korean dramas.

Erin: Okay, I just have to ask, I have to ask a little follow up here. Do you sleep?

Yi-Chin: I do!. 

Erin: I don't believe you. Like you, you have so many interests. And like you said earlier, you dive deep into all of them. Oh my gosh. I'm 

Yi-Chin: I know. 

Erin: she's you are, you're the most well rounded human I've ever

Yi-Chin: Well, you know, it's funny because I sleep enough for my standard. So when I was in, when I was in college, I was on like a four hour rotation. So again, like survival mode, right? So I was like, all right, how do I make enough money? And how do I go to class at the same time? So I'll work one job for four hours and go to class for another four hours, sleep for four hours and wake up and work another job for four hours.

And so feeling like that broken up was like totally could work. And but now I'm in my mid to late 40s like, I need my sleep. but I just use my time, you know, really, really well. I think there was another advice that I found from one of my dear, dear mentors, whose name is Pat Gray.

So she was one of the founders of the Foo Project, someone who is very, very dear to my heart. She said to me, When your life is really messy, simplify whenever you can. So I eat the same meal all the time. You know, I have like a rotation, like two or three outfits that I just wear and don't care to don't complicate things that have given me extra time to be able to invest in things that I care about.

Erin: I love that. My goodness. This conversation was just full of wisdom, of perspective, of growth, evolution, of tips, strategies, specific advice. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much.

Yi-Chin: You two are too kind.

Scott: Thank you Yi-Chin. This has been such a great end to the week, and I mean this conversation goes on for hours for our listeners, where can people find you?

Yi-Chin: Yeah, I'm LinkedIn. I am definitely on LinkedIn. I'm going to do a shameless plug. I checked off my bucket list and recently did a TEDx talk. Not recently, like almost a year ago. Look up TEDx. TEDx Roxbury channel on YouTube and you'll find my talk on there along with 13 other fantastic, fantastic talks.

So yeah, those are the two places for sure.

Scott: That's great. Thank you.

Erin: This was such a joy.

Yi-Chin: Oh, thank you for having me. This was, you two are fun. 

Scott: Right back at you. 

Scott: Erin, that was the first time I ever had a chance to talk with Yi-Chin and learn about her trajectory and, you know, as I think we both agree, that could have gone on for many hours. It's like, I want to be, I want to be part of her team. And want her to be one of my mirrors.

Erin: Right. I know. She's, she's just so wise. She's so open. She's so aware of herself and of others and just the way she talked about being able to learn how to adjust her leadership style and to, to, recognize the moment, not only as hers, but how her team was, has been experiencing it and how her team experiences things like chaos.

Like I'm just, I'm just so impressed. By her and I, like I said at the beginning, I learn so much every time I chat with her and I'm so glad that we could welcome you into that. So I've had the opportunity to connect with her for many years now, but I'm so thrilled that you two are now connected because I can only imagine the awesome things that are going to come from that too.