From Organizer to Entrepreneur with Naomi Roth-Gaudette

In this lively episode, Erin Cox and Scott Knox sit down with Naomi Roth-Gaudette, a dynamic leader in the social impact world. Naomi shares the captivating story of her leadership journey, from her early days as a PIRG organizer to founding her own consulting firm, NRG Consulting. Full of energy and wisdom, Naomi dives into the importance of community, the power of networking, and the value of saying 'yes' to new opportunities. A must-listen for aspiring leaders and community builders alike.

Hosted by Erin Cox and M. Scott Knox
Edited and Produced by Stephanie Cohen

Transcript

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Erin: Welcome to the Lead and Live Well podcast. My name is Erin Cox, and I'm thrilled to be here with my co host Scott Knox. On the Lead and Live Well podcast. We sit down with leaders in the social impact world to learn about their leadership journeys. We talk about their strengths and passions, the transitions they have made in their career, and how they have crafted their own paths to leadership.

Our goal is to highlight a diverse array of leaders and journeys, so that our listeners learn from relatable and compelling examples of what it means to lead and live well. 

Hi, Scott. How are you feeling today?

Scott: Hey, Erin. Happy Friday. It's great to see you.

Erin: You too. So excited for our guest today. You and I both know her well and have the opportunity to work with her in different ways. And she just brings such great energy to her work and really to everything she does. 

Scott: I am thrilled to be here. And exceptionally excited for today's guest.

Erin: Without further ado, let me introduce everyone to Naomi Roth-Gaudette More than 20 years ago, Naomi cut her teeth as a PIRG organizer and went on to become their National Field Director. She is the former Executive Director of Green Corps, an environmental organization that trains recent college graduates in a one year postgraduate program in grassroots community organizing.

When Obama first ran for president, she hired 600 plus people to move to swing states to get him elected. In 2018, Naomi founded NRG Consulting, a search firm that specializes in placing talent where it is needed quickly. Over the last five years, NRG has completed hundreds of searches for organizations in the social justice space and has become known for their fast, customized, and strategic approach to the work.

Naomi lives in Newton. with her wife, who also does social justice work, and her two daughters. Welcome, Naomi. So good to see you.

Naomi: Good to see you, it's fun to be with both of you.

Erin: We're thrilled, thrilled, thrilled to have you. Our very first interview. Thank you for being willing to jump in on this lead and live well journey with us.

Scott: Naomi, you are our number one.

Naomi: I love it. I'm holding you to that for eternity.

Erin: That won't be hard to do. Not at all. Well, we're excited to dive into the conversation, and we gave a little bit of a background for you and the different roles that you've played. But it would be so helpful for you to just give us a rundown of your career trajectory. and, and give us a little bit of insight as you do that into why you made the choices that you made up till this point.

Naomi: So I've always been very political. You know, I went to college in the early 90s when it was the first time that politics were kind of blocked because Clinton had just gotten elected, you know, Democrat in office, Republicans in Congress and not much moving.

So I always wanted to be a rebel rouser and help make things move. It turns out if you are political, you're supposed to go to law school. That's what society kind of tells you to do. And it made sense because my parents were always telling me I could do whatever I wanted after I graduated from grad school.

So I, you know, I applied for law school right out of school. I ended up taking a gap year you know, deferring for a year because that's also something you're supposed to do. And during that year, I was a. Organizer with the PIRGs out in California and just freaking loved it. Like, I was working with an army of people. We were making a difference. I felt like I learned more about how politics work than I did in my 4 years of, you know, fancy college. So I then got in a big fight with my parents and decided to ditch law school and not go and I became a professional organizer.

So I joined the PIRG family of organizations where I was there for what I think of as a small eternity. I was there for 17 years. It's how I met my people. You know, it's how I met my wife. It's all the weddings that I was at over the years. you know, the PIRG started Green Corps, so I was running Green Corps. My wife, you know, then girlfriend, was running the canvases for the PIRG, so we were like the powerhouse couple. 

And, you know, after 17 years when my kids were born, I kind of wanted to, I just wanted something new, something different. I basically left the environmental movement and got more involved in education advocacy. And that was you know, wicked fun. I was working with all these different people organizing low income people as opposed to, don't know, fancy white people that The environmental movement was organizing in the aughts and then that organization kind of went belly up, like a bunch of us were laid off overnight.

So I was scrambling to find my next thing. You know, and I sort of think of that moment as when I went out on my own. So I met Scott because he was hiring for a director of talent at a high performing charter school in Boston, and I never run talent before. I'd always done it as part of You know what I did and I'm sort of a natural recruiter.

It's one of my superpowers, but it was a total leap of faith to be like, hire me to hire all these teachers for this school. I hadn't even been in school since I had graduated. and it was a one year gig. It was, you know, like a maternity leave replacement role. I just felt like I nailed it. Like we um, quadrupled the amount of people that applied for teaching jobs and doubled the percentage of people of color that the school hired. So after that, I was basically set up pretty well. You know, it's just wicked weird in Boston. I didn't mean to start a consulting firm, you know, or become an entrepreneur or even start recruiting.

I was, I was hustling. I was looking for my next gig. I knew I wanted to make a difference. I kind of wanted to run something. I wanted a lot of responsibility. I was talking to all these people and I kept, as I was on the job hunt, I kept being the number two, 

or, you know, I was getting offered jobs in DC, but I had a family in Boston. So that year for my birthday. My wife basically got me a website and a logo. Cause it, cause I had started picking up some side projects. So this is the point where I think my wife was like, you should just do this. And then I had the big decision, because, you know, when you're out on your own, it's super freaking scary to spend money. Like, when I was working for other people, and it was the corporate credit card, it was very easy to spend money.

But when it's my freaking money, it's harder. And I remember agonizing over a co-working space. I think it was like 350 a month. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is so much money. Like, do we really want to be spending this? And I decided to do it. And that's sort of when I think of starting NRG Consulting Group.

I think about that as starting during the Kavanaugh hearings. Because I remember being really psyched that it was in a co-working space because we could all talk about how we believe women and we can't, you know, fathom what's actually happening in DC. But so that was, I think, six years ago now, and it's been awesome.

Like, we did over three million dollars in business last year. We placed 217 people with mission driven organizations. It's like 67 percent of them are people of color. 

Like, I just feel 

Scott: Unbelievable.

Naomi: lucky.

Thank you. 

I just feel lucky that I get paid to do really good work and I get to work with all these awesome people and all these awesome organizations, and it's just pretty awesome.

Erin: That is quite the journey, Naomi. And we know that you're nowhere near done. So there's so many things I want to dig into. So many things. I want to go back to one of the key points you said at the beginning around these supposed to's. So you said you were supposed to go to law school. If you're political, you are supposed to take a gap year.

And like, I think you reference like society and I heard a little bit of like parents in wrapped up in those expectations. And one of the things Scott and I love to explore is when, you know, when folks are facing a fork in the road, if you will, and one side is on the supposed tos and one side is like, but this is really what I want to do, and you didn't yet know that you didn't .

I want to go to law school. You just kind of took a gap year. Actually, it sounds like it launched you in a very different direction. So can you just kind of walk us through a little bit of like what that was like to shake off the shoulders as we like to say and and follow your own path in particular.

I think around some of the expectations that you are feeling coming from others.

Naomi: Yeah, you know, it's a while ago now, I think it's like 25 years ago, but I just remember it felt like this huge decision because I really liked The organizing work that I was doing and I was naturally really good at it. Like I think I had recruited, you know, I was 22 years old. I was working with 80 interns where all my colleagues and peers more likely had teams of five or 10 people.

And you know, I was just having so much fun. I remember some of these people that I work with, I'm still in touch with, or at least Facebook friends with. Cause you know, like I took the passionate college students and then trained them up. And, you know, got them to do the press conference where the LA Times interviewed them and it was all about passing a law to make polluters pay.

 it was really freaking fun and rewarding and just played to my strengths, right? Like the law school stuff. You know, I was definitely getting into like tier two law schools. I wasn't going to like any of the fancier law schools out there. So I wasn't, I wasn't somebody who was getting a perfect score in the SAT or the LSAT, like sitting down and reading and digesting something that is not like, I am like, let me skim it.

Let me get the gist and go. And all my lawyer friends, they're really, really good readers. They're really good Googlers. Like I felt like I was doing it. I don't know. My sister has a PhD. My brother has a CPA. Like, it felt more like I was supposed to do it. You know, and the whole thing of like, oh, you can be whatever you want after you graduate from grad school.

Like, you know, that's just the thing. It felt like I was doing it because it's what other people wanted me to do, but it wasn't something I was naturally good at. There's other places where this is supposed to have come up in my career. Like I remember when I first launched NRG consulting group I think I was billing my time at $150 an hour. And there's all these consultants that I meet with now. They're just getting started. And there was no, there's never wiggle room on their rate. And I remember when I first started, I was just happy to be doing things. I was like, Oh my God, somebody will pay me. Like I was definitely like, I remember now, you know, development searches are really hard.

We tend to charge like, you know, $25K for development searches. I was definitely doing development searches at $5,000. You know, or 50 bucks an hour, just to like, Do it and get the experience and get in there. So that to me is one of these like, well, your rate is your rate and you're supposed to value your time.

And I was like, I know that and I'm going to get there and I'm for sure there now, but I just wanted to be like, making a difference working with a bunch of people, I don't know. I followed up like crazy on the get me a quote saying something glowing about what you liked working with me to then get me street cred to get me more clients.

But it's almost like doing the thing that feels right in the moment, instead of what you're supposed to do because other people are telling you to do it like I'm sure at Harvard Business School, right? Or there's some like never change your rate or never, you know, lower your value. I'm like, no way. I just want to be working with people and making a difference and offering these skills and that was, that was helpful because it definitely helped establish street cred and I'm glad I did it.

Erin: That's awesome. That's really, really helpful to hear you talk through that and to point out different points where you were kind of feeling those shoulds and, and, and breaking ties with them. It takes a lot of strength to do that. There's one other place I want to dig in. this idea that you were the number two for a number of positions.

I know a lot of my clients and, and I imagine a lot of our listeners have been in that situation where you kind of go through the whole process and you're really invested in the role and for whatever reason it doesn't work out. And one of the things I regularly talk to my clients about is, is the idea that rejection is direction.

And we don't feel it at the time, like at the time, if like, when I say that, I know people are like, yeah, rolling their eyes and, and wishing I would be quiet or but it is, it can be a real source of like, if this doesn't work out, it might open up. A number of other doors and it sounds like when you were so in it you weren't necessarily feeling that, but the way I really heard that kind of phrase come through as you were talking about those experiences, because it sounds like at the same time that was happening, you were kind of really thriving, in your own zone of genius on these other things.

And your wife saw it. I just, I love that.

Naomi: Yeah, well, I remember that time frame because I think my now 10 year old had just started kindergarten when I was aggressively looking for jobs. And it's just, it's, it's everything like you meet a stranger, right? And you're making small talk about screen time or the school. And then eventually somebody is like, what do you do?

And you're like, Oh, I'm actually looking for something. Right. It's so freaking, I just remember being so external and needing to kind of wear the ownership of like, I'm really just trying to figure that out right now. But I always tell people this when they are job hunting, it's like, not the goal is not necessarily to get a job.

I mean, yes, that's what you want, but it's really about building your network. Like if I think about some of these places where I was the number two and some of that is spin in my own head, right? Like people don't really come back to you and say, by the way, you are number two. But I know they liked me and I was in it and I really got to meet them and spend time with them.

a lot of those people became my initial clients. or they didn't become an initial client, but maybe in a year or two, once I got established, they came back and hired me. Or there are people that I go to now, like people who I met, you know, interview three, interview four, where I'm doing an exercise and strutting my stuff.

Like, there are people now who are all movers and shakers out there. Like there's this one woman who's now, you know, running the field team for Planned Parenthood and I met her through an interview, and so she's now one of my go to, like, "Oh my god, I have to hire an organizer, who do you know?" Or "We need to hire an ED."

So I just think for me, I just put an emphasis on cultivating the relationship. You know, Just trying as much as I could to see it as a network building opportunity, and just staying in touch with the people. But yeah, when you don't get the job, it freaking sucks. Almost like I approach it from a like, okay, I know you rejected me now, but you're not going to reject me forever.

Like, I'm just going to wear you down. And then eventually, you know, we're going to work together, come hell or high water. And that tends to work.

Erin: I love it. I'm also hearing like rejection isn't a thing for you. It's like that, that's a, it's a no right now, but you know, I'll be back and you'll say yes.

Naomi: Yeah, that's I don't know, I don't want to make it seem like I don't, , when you're in the mix for a job, like it's, you, you want it, like you imagine yourself there, it reminds me of you.

Right? Like, two mom family getting pregnant, like, it turns out it's harder to get pregnant than what, you know, my high school health teacher told us. Like, that experience of, like, every time we think it's gonna happen, and then it doesn't, and you just have to sort of keep hope alive and re approach, and you know you're doing all the things right, just sometimes it clicks and sometimes it doesn't.

Or we had a really tough time buying a house, like, we made nine offers, and it's, all these, like, getting pregnant, buying a house, and landing a job, they're so It's such a similar thing of like, it totally freaking sucks when it sucks, but you know, you know, like we ended up buying the house and now we have two kids and you know, like, I'm super psyched with what I'm doing.

Like, you know, it's going to work out. You just have to have faith in yourself and focus on the things you can control, right? Like the, I'm just going to wear this person down, or I'm going to stay in touch with them, or I really enjoyed meeting them and I don't want them out of my life.

Scott: Totally. Totally. All right. Naomi, I'm going to jump in and shift gears just a little bit. And you shared earlier. One of your superpowers is recruiting. You know, I think that certainly Erin and I and our listeners, like, there's so many things that we might identify just in the last 30 minutes as. your toolkit of superpowers, but I'm, I'm curious to hear your, in your words, what do you see yourself exceptionally good at, and when did you start to notice that you were good at these things?

Naomi: Yeah, that's a good question. I just feel like I'm a really good recruiter. So you know, there's the example in high school when we weren't allowed to wear shorts to school, and I organized a big walkout. I grew up in Miami, Florida, so not being able to wear shorts was a big deal.

They eventually let us wear shorts on Friday in June, which we celebrated, like it was the biggest victory ever. But I've always just naturally been a good recruiter. So the story I like to share. There was one time I took a flight across the country or maybe it was like from Denver to Boston, and I recruited the stranger sitting next to me to come and work for us.

And he ended up working for us for three years. And I think, you know, it's like a red eye flight, like it left at 10 PM. So it's kind of fun to think like at two in the morning, I'm definitely, like, I'll talk to anybody about anything. So this plays out in my personal life. Like, I am everybody's go to person for babysitters.

Like, I love you know, my girls go to a Jewish summer camp, and I just love the opportunity to meet the parents, because I just work it with all the nice high school students, and say, hey, do you babysit? Let me get digits. 

 My wife and I organize a Halloween bike ride every year in JP that we moved to Newton, and I don't know, I think there's 200 ish people that go, and it's just a fun community event. On New Year's Day we did a polar plunge. So we started this last year where we texted people on New Year's Eve on our way to a party being like, who wants to meet at Crystal Lake tomorrow and jump in?

And there were like, I don't know, 40 ish people that showed. So this year, people were asking, like, is it happening? Is it on? So we did it again, and there were 60 people that showed. So I just like, you know, building community, bringing people together. It all feels super easy for me.

Scott: Hmm. Hmm. Well, and, and, you know, like, and it's so clear that like, you are genuinely curious about people, you know, like their background, their stories and making those, you know, connections, either other people or opportunities or organizations or movements. Has there been a time when? superpowers or strengths have held you back.

Naomi: Um, well, one of my other strengths, like with recruitment or like I, I move really quickly.

Like, I can just go and I make things happen, right? Like the polar plunge, you know, like the, you know, and, and sometimes that means that I um, I don't know, skip over some of the steps that, well, like the two of you with your COO brains would really care about, like some of the, like, let's really get aligned on the process and kind of how we're doing it.

I don't love that space. I'm like, really, we're still talking about this? Can't we just get moving? But having been at it, like, I know, you know, like I've done some CEO searches now, or executive director searches with boards of people who really, you know, a strong process really matters. And you know, being really thoughtful about how we're going to move people through the process.

And I find that I can get a little antsy on those calls. I might start multitasking a little bit when we're on like hour three of the same thing. You can even tell by the way I'm talking about it, but that's for sure like a growth area for me and a place where I think it holds, it holds me back and it holds NRG back a little bit.

Scott: Well, and I imagine with NRG, you know, you, you scaffold and you hire, you know, for this, you know, for that skill set, that expertise to kind of help amplify your superpowers with someone else's superpowers.

Naomi: Yeah, so right. That's been helpful because I feel like I know what I'm good at. Like, it's this middle age confidence, you know, I just turned 47. And I just at this point, I just like the stuff I'm struggling with.

I've been struggling with for 20 years and the stuff that I'm good at for 20 years. I've been really good at it. So it's all about how to minimize it. So, yeah, I've been able to hire people. Like, I recently brought on a COO who is super great to work with and has made our process a lot better. And it's just. It's just super helpful, and then I'll often bring on people, particularly to help with those executive director type searches, who are much better at that than I am, and, you know, will sort of keep me in line, and will say things like, stop multitasking, we need you to pay attention here, or I'm paying attention, so I can recap but yeah, that's been helpful.

Erin: I distinctly remember a conversation we had, Naomi, where it was nearly impossible for you to believe that kind of process and alignment was something that someone might enjoy doing. And that there are people for whom that is a superpower and I think you took a big, bold step in bringing someone like that on your team.

And it's had huge benefits for the full group at NRG.

Naomi: That's tricky to think that people like the things that you don't Like, 

Erin: mm hmm. That's one side of strength. The other part is like not even realizing that the things that we do when we're in flow are strengths that other people value and don't have because it comes so easy. And as much as you talked about it, Naomi, I still think you're underselling yourself as a recruiter.

Because I also remember you telling me about things like, Oh yeah, I found this new great person for my team. I was like, Oh, how'd you source them? Well, the person next to me. At Orange Theory's, brother's dry cleaners, best friend's daughter's cousin, turns out she's looking for work and it's a great fit. I'm like, it's just amazing the connections that you're able to build 

Naomi: Yes, sure. It's my accountant's. This is good, my accountant's daughter's, like, best friend at school is somebody that I go to for all sorts of things. 

Erin: I love it. I love it so much. All right, I'm, I'm curious about a period of time that you would consider to be a rough spot as a leader? And you're not somebody who dwells but like a time when you were, you were kind of in a tough position as a leader and curious to know what you took away from that experience and how you got through it and what you took away from it.

Naomi: I feel like the job hunting stuff was super hard for me. That like time when You know, basically, I'd worked for PIRG for 17 years, then I did a little bit in the education advocacy space, then there were massive layoffs, and, you know, fighting like the end of a severance package, I think I had just had Sylvie, so there were, you know, two kids, I remember um, I love getting the newspaper delivered every morning, I remember stopping the newspaper, you know, to save like 60 a month as a way of cutting back but just like the, all the feelings of like, what am I going to be when I grow up?

Do I have a skill set that people value? That was pretty tricky. And then as you look at jobs, right? It's like, Oh, if I only went at one point, I thought about fundraising. Like I think doing fundraising work is similar to doing recruitment work where you're asking for time, you know, you're asking for money.

And you're following up with the people. But, you know, if you're looking on idealist for jobs, it's like, I'm like, oh, man, I wish I had spent the last 10 years doing development work or major gifts work because, you know, there's a lot of chief development roles out there or all, you know, like, I'm not a policy expert.

It just felt like the generalist, like everybody wants a comms. Policy development or somebody to lead, but at least in the spaces that I want to be in, a lot of the people, you know, you want somebody with lived experience or who matches the communities they're trying to serve. So I just felt like a little bit of a generalist.

And there was a time when the mom stuff was real. I was also trying to lean in on parenting and I wanted to be the person who was, schlepping the kids too, I think it was ballet and soccer that year. So yeah, just the fear of like, gosh, is anybody going to want to work with me? and totally in my head like I, you know, I wouldn't be sleeping.

I'd be thinking about it all the time and then your question of like, how did I spin myself out of it? Or, you know, what did I do? I'm just a big believer in the focus on what you can control. It wasn't about how many jobs I was applying for. It wasn't about how many offers I was getting.

It was just like, All right, I know this is going to come through my network, so let me use this time to meet with as many people as possible, and let me use this time to expand my network. So I just, I was really diligent. I met with eight people a week. Every person I met with would give me the names of two to three other people.

I would keep them all on a spreadsheet. Every four weeks, I would follow up with the people I met with. If you're doing math, the spreadsheet gets long pretty quickly. And the following up is tricky, right? What you want to say is like, "Woe is me. I'm not sleeping that well. I still need a job. Do you have any ideas? I still never went to grad school, and I'm still not, you know, a policy comms and development person." But that's a totally depressing email to write. So instead, it's like you know, thinking about you. I'm in the running, you know, for this kind of job. Let me know if you have any thoughts or know this person.

Hope all is well. And so for me, just the intention around my network and what I can control was super fun. And that ended up working.

Scott: at your DNA level, like you are. the quintessential community organizer, right? Like just the way you talk about meeting people, connecting with people, how that goes up into, you know, this kind of umbrella skillset of being an incredible recruiter and, you know, part of that, like, knowing you outside of today's conversation, but, you know, especially in today's conversation, you have this incredible energy as well. And I'm curious, have you ever, in addition to periods of uncertainty or maybe anxiety, have you ever experienced a period of burnout? And. You know, if so, how did you recognize you were in it and what'd you do to get out of it?

Naomi: I don't feel like I've been burnt out. There's you know, there's like election cycles that are crazy. Like I feel like I spent so many years where I'd get to the office at 8 a. m. and then I'd leave at 11 p. m. and go hang out with everybody I was working with. And that was six days a week. And you know, like Sunday you maybe try to eat a vegetable and you maybe do some laundry. But they all had endings, right? So I always knew when they were going to end. So they were, you know, there's times there, you know, like election years, right?

Like daylight savings time is the best thing ever when you get an extra hour of sleep in late October. But because I knew they were going to end, it didn't. I don't think I experienced burnout. I'm really good at taking vacations and breaks. I do look back on my career, I feel like I stayed at PIRG for a little bit too long.

Like 17 years is a long time to be at one organization. So maybe the way that I would experience, you know, I don't know, maybe this is burnout. Maybe I'm just in denial, but I remember I would get emails from people who I've worked with forever. And even before I opened the email, I would be really annoyed.

I'm like, why is this person emailing me? I know what this is going to be about. I'm freaking annoyed. Like, I just, I just been there for too long. I knew it was going to happen. Nothing was new or special. You know, so it, I was so nervous about leaving or going out on my own that I like, but it's also fine and maybe I can just lean in more to being a mom.

You know, when our first kid was born, I remember cutting back, like Sarah and I would be home with her every other Friday and that felt really fun. Like there were ways to just cut back. I sort of wish looking back I had left PIRG earlier than I actually did. There were all these reasons, you know, like we were trying to get pregnant and then there was the new baby and then it just took a long time.

I was too nervous to just go out on my own. 

Scott: Well, I also hear, like I hear you saying like, so, so much of your work, there's been patterns of, you know cycles of things starting and stopping and then these intervals where you might get a moment to kind of stick your head up and as you said, you know, being being good at taking breaks and vacations and you know, considering like what's going on outside of work and how you make space for those things, you know, family wise.

Naomi: Yeah, hobbies also help. Like, sometimes it's fun. I'm super into playing squash right now. I'm not very good, but it's really fun. You know, I'm playing four or five days a week and that's like, you got to make the time, you got to get over there, whatever. It's only like an hour and 15 minutes, but still it's a thing.

And I feel like that helps. And there's been times when I've been more focused on work and times when I've been more focused on hobbies or more focused on reading or family and just letting myself kind of ride that wave.

Erin: I really appreciate that reflection and all the different examples that you've given in terms of how, how balance can play out, not necessarily like, like within one day, but from life period to life period, there could be ebb and flow there. And I think that's really helpful. And wise, if I dare say, Naomi. So we love talking to the leaders that we get to interview.

About the best advice they've ever received or given or both. What comes to mind?

Naomi: Well if I think about it more as like how people in my life sort of impacted me, I think a lot about my mom, so as you guys know, right, my mother died not that long ago and I did the eulogy, or one of them, both me and my sister spoke, and I, I think I didn't really realize how much she had shaped me until I was writing this thing through or thinking about it. One thing that was awesome was her um, ability to, like, collect people. So, this is somebody who, you know, the person I was in the Girl Scout troop with in 1986. , like she stayed in touch with her mom and, you know, they were friends or somebody who was still friends with her best camp friend, my mom was just so good at kind of meeting people, grabbing them and holding onto them.

And I see so much of that in my life of like, you know, just being super curious about people, but then being a collector of people. Like I love I don't know. I love the holidays. I love sending like the holiday card at the end of the year and taking the time to just pause and think about all the people in your network. You know, I really put a lot of time and energy into making sure that I can touch the people who've touched me.

Scott: I'm curious about Naomi, what, what, do you think is some of the best advice you've given to someone you've worked with, collaborated with, organized with, consulted for?

Naomi: I feel like these days I'm talking to a lot of newer consultants, like people who are trying to hang their own shingle. the thing that I did like, they just said yes. Right. Say, say yes to all the things. Don't worry too much about an hourly rate. Just get in there and work with people and establish your street cred.

Like I, I find myself saying that a lot. And then for candidates on the job hunt, which I talked to those people a lot too. I think that's fun. It's like that networking approach to the job hunt where You know, almost like stop applying for jobs because when I'm screening right, you know, like what we're looking for is so freaking specific and a lot of people I talked to are more like there.

I don't know 40s or 50s looking for their next adventure and they're not going to fit into that very specific box. Just the emphasis on networking and telling my story of like, I just talked to 8 people a week and each one of them would give me more names and I would stay in touch with them and that just being intentional around because I think it's easy to.

You know, talk to people. I think it's harder to stay in touch with them and it's tricky to come up with substance about like, why are you reaching out to them? So those are, those are things that I will often share.

Erin: Well, I will say you and the team at NRG are offering fantastic Tips, tricks, advice, perspective to all sides of the, of the recruiting process to candidates, to organizations and I've just loved the newsletters that you send out because I think they're just so grounded in reality.

They are direct and kind and super clear. So let's make sure we tell people how they can get in touch with you, how they can learn more about NRG, et cetera. What's the best way?

Naomi: There's a website, nrgconsulting.group, And there's, you know, you can sign up to be a part of the talent network. There's back issues that you can look at. So you can read newsletters and then we just give it away for free a bunch. Like it's just fun to offer services. So we'll do a couple of times a year. I'll do webinars for organizations that are looking to hire people that are all free, which are basically just tips on how to run it in house.

And then we'll also do webinars. For people in the space, like we've got one coming up with a pretty cool equity and inclusion expert. We did one on compensation. And then we'll do webinars for candidates on the job hunt too. I just find that if you give it away for free and you help people, that they come back to you and offer you paying gigs, you know, when it's time.

Plus it's just, you know, fun to stay busy and connected to people. But yeah, a website is a good place to start.

Erin: Awesome. Well, Naomi, this has been a true joy. We love your energy. We love your focus on community, on service, on relationships, and you just offered so much wisdom and great perspective that I think folks are really going to eat up. So thank you so much for jumping in with us and sharing this time.

Scott: I know. Naomi, that has been so fantastic to reconnect. I think there's, there's a lot that I'm taking away from our conversation. you've inspired me to maybe hold off from opening my book or putting in my ear pods right away when I sit down on a plane, because I could be missing out on a conversation and a connection and opportunity.

So not going to promise I'm going to do that, but you've inspired me. 

Naomi: I love it. I sort of feel like if I could grow up and be more like Scott and Erin, like I'd fulfill all my hopes and dreams.

Scott: Careful what you wish.

Erin: Yeah. Well, we adore you and Naomi. Thank you so much. right.

Scott: Thank you, Naomi.

Erin: How much fun was that? 

Scott: Oh, my gosh. Naomi is just like a bolt of lightning.

Erin: That's a great way to describe her. She's just tons of energy, tons of love. so funny. And she's so creative. And I feel like the core of who she is, is just so genuinely focused on community and relationships. She builds a community where it doesn't exist. She connects people. She truly enjoys it, and you pointed this out in the episode, she just truly enjoys learning about people and then finding ways to be helpful to them.

And, you know, what a special person.

Scott: Yeah, she I think Naomi is one of those examples of how talented community organizers are. People who've spent, you know, part of their professional journeys as organizers, like they can do so much. Whether it's in the talent space, whether it's in the development and fundraising space or just, you know, wider movement building that just comes, that comes through.

I mean, she loves people, she loves connecting and she's just curious.

Erin: Absolutely. And, you know, it's interesting about her because she is in that progressive space. And, you know, a lot of that job is to like, is, is to be a nudge. And sometimes it doesn't come across in a good way. Like I think sometimes, you know, the PIRGs of the world get a little bit of a bad rap because of sometimes the approach to nudginess and she, she nudges, but you love her for it.

And you don't realize it's actually happening to her, you know, happening to you, you like, when she's like, well, hey, who wants to go do a polar plunge? Nobody. Do people really want to do a polar plunge? That feels like my worst nightmare. And I know now like cold plunges are a thing. But then she's like, yeah, 40 people said yes.

We texted them the night before. They were there within 12 hours. Like, that's just incredible. And she just has an amazing ability to rally people around fun things and good causes.

Scott: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Erin: Such special people we have the opportunity to connect with. Look at us. We're lucky.