Leave A Light On Podcast
Welcome to "Leave A Light On Podcast," the podcast that brings you inspiring stories of ordinary people overcoming extraordinary challenges in their lives. Join us as we delve into the lives of individuals from all walks of life, exploring the adversities they face and the resilience they demonstrate in overcoming them.
In each episode, we'll introduce you to a new guest—a parent, a teacher, a healthcare worker, a student, a veteran, or perhaps your neighbor next door. Through heartfelt interviews and candid conversations, we'll uncover the personal battles they've fought, whether it's overcoming illness, navigating through loss, breaking free from addiction, or facing societal barriers.
From tales of triumph over adversity to stories of perseverance in the face of hardship, "Leave a Light On Podcast" celebrates the human spirit and the strength found within each of us. You'll laugh, you'll cry, and most importantly, you'll be inspired by the resilience and determination of these everyday people who refuse to be defined by their struggles.
So, tune in and join us on this journey of hope, empowerment, and the celebration of the human spirit. Because in the end, it's the stories of everyday people that remind us all that we are capable of overcoming anything life throws our way.
Leave A Light On Podcast
Pour Another Round: Luke Tilse's Recipe for Thriving When Costs Are Chasing You with a Knife
What does it take to run successful hospitality venues in today's challenging economic landscape? Luke Tilse, the visionary behind Happy Wombat, Young Street Hotel, and Apple Truck Cider, pulls back the curtain on his decade-plus journey through Newcastle's hospitality scene with raw honesty and philosophical depth.
When Luke established the Happy Wombat over ten years ago, he deliberately chose what he calls "a daggy name" because his vision transcended trends – he wanted to create an institution where people felt at home whether on date night or catching up with mates after work. This thoughtful approach to business permeates everything he touches, from venue design to staff culture.
The conversation takes a profound turn as Luke shares how his first son Charlie's Down syndrome diagnosis transformed not just his personal life but his entire approach to business. "He's been the best thing that's ever happened to us," Luke reveals, explaining how this unexpected journey deepened his empathy, connected him with a supportive community, and clarified his priorities. Now, much of his entrepreneurial drive stems from wanting to ensure Charlie's future care and support.
Against the backdrop of what Luke describes as an "hourglass economy" squeezing middle-market venues, he offers hard-earned wisdom about survival: maintain unwavering quality, watch costs like a hawk, understand that your real product is the space you create rather than just the food and drinks, and above all, value human connections over profit margins.
Whether you're in hospitality, running another business, or simply interested in how someone balances professional success with deep personal purpose, Luke's candid reflections will leave you pondering what truly matters in work and life. Don't miss this one!
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Hello and welcome to Leave a Light On Podcast, a show that looks to tackle the everyday struggles in our everyday lives. It's time to shed some light on it. Leave a Light on Podcast is not a licensed mental health service and shouldn't be substituted for professional advice or treatment. Things discussed in this podcast are general in nature and may be of a sensitive nature. If you're struggling, please seek professional help or contact Lifeline on 13 11 14.
Speaker 3:Here's your hosts Yo yo, welcome to Live Alive on Podcast. I'm one half of the host, shane, and with me today is not Shiv Actually, he's not able to be here with us today so I have got a very suitable stand-in filler poly filler, if you want to call him that, but most of you would actually know him by now because he is in the background and today he's going to get on the mic and help me out. Welcome our one and only producer, manager and all in general good guy, mr Mick Moray. Hello.
Speaker 1:The crowd goes wild. Yeah, the crowd goes wild. Yeah, the crowd goes wild. All these people here watching us today, it's freaking me out.
Speaker 3:Boydie, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. Obviously, like we said, shev couldn't be here with us. Obviously, he had some stuff that he had to sort out, unfortunately, but we've got some really cool stuff happening today. We do have some really cool stuff.
Speaker 1:I have been working to try to get this guest on For a long time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so good, so good.
Speaker 1:It has taken me some serious work to get this guy. Yeah, we've, I suppose I've been following him on Instagram and obviously, from what I used to do owning the cafe, he obviously is a hospitality entrepreneur, entrepreneur, I suppose and has really just kicked some goals in Newcastle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, really successful businessman, all-around great guy, Just a great funny guy. We really enjoy him.
Speaker 1:I think we're going to be in for a good laugh here. Yeah, we've enjoyed some good chats with him even beforehand, so it's been really really good.
Speaker 3:But yeah, today's guest we have the one and only, luke Tills. He is the owner and founder of the Happy Wombat. He also now owns the Yonge Street Hotel, which is in Carrington, and he is also one half of the partnership of the Apple Truck Cider. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1:I've got all those right. And he also is half owner of Newcastle Beer Fest.
Speaker 3:He also. Yes, he also is half, so I don't know how this guy has time to sleep.
Speaker 3:to be honest, yeah, he's got a really incredible story which we'll get into now he does. Yeah, it's really cool. But, yeah, it's been been really good chatting to him today and we really hope that a lot of people listen to this and get some really good insights, not only to running a business, but he has some really cool insights into just family life and how he does things with family and also but without giving too much away has a really incredible story in that aspect as well, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 3:So without further ado, I give you the one, the only, Mr Luke Tills.
Speaker 2:Thunder, thunder, thunder.
Speaker 3:Luke, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast. Great to have you, Obviously Luke Tills, phenomenal businessman, here in Newcastle and obviously we'll get into a little bit more questionable.
Speaker 4:Thank you.
Speaker 3:Phenomenal, questionable, but yeah, so good to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. Let's start off with obvious, obviously who are you? What do people need to know about you? Tell us for someone maybe who has no idea who Luke is. Give us a brief rundown and, if I can ask you to talk nice and close to the microphone.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay, I'll lean forward. Sorry, it's looking very casual there. Yeah, so I'm Luke. I grew up in Scone, moved to Sydney and did a bit of work in hospitality there, then came up to Newcastle to do a degree, to have a little bit of a backup after you know, 10 years in the hospitality industry, and met my wife, who I've still got now 16, 17 years old.
Speaker 3:Hey, congratulations, thank you. That's a feat in its own, and I think something that it sure is. We can give that a good clap on the side. We love to encourage. Oh, it's a feet all right now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we're very in love. They go like a heart. Yeah, those guys, so many people, so many people. Yeah, it's actually quite intimidating. But no, the yeah.
Speaker 4:So I met my wife and you know three kids and three businesses later and a little beer fest and yeah so, yeah. So the businesses are I I've got the Happy Wombat on Hunter Street, the Yonge Street Hotel in Carrington and Apple Truck Cider, which is my first little business, and with a partner, my uncle Stephen, who's got the Orchard, which we'll talk about later, and then a beer festival which I started with Tayo Namba from Nagisa Nagisa, yeah, yes, and other things that he's got going as well.
Speaker 3:Awesome. Yeah, obviously the big one there that I think a lot of people obviously will know about or will be the most popular would be Happy Wombat. Yeah, how long have you been involved or should I say been involved to have that establishment going now?
Speaker 4:So 10 and a half years, I think. So I think it's like, yeah, it feels like we just had the 10-year anniversary, but it's actually only three months. That's like we just had the 10-year anniversary but it's actually only three months. That's 10 and three-quarter years. Wow, yes, yeah, yeah that we've had the happy wombat. So I opened that like should I talk about the happy woman? Yeah, go for it yeah I was at the dockyard running the dockyard for a while.
Speaker 4:They sold that yeah and so I moved off and yeah, had the opportunity to sort of yeah, the the one of the owners of the dockyard was a pub broker and, um, the happy wombat site had like multiple bankruptcies and was just empty.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Or like people had just walked away from it, which is like a big thing in the hospitality industry. It's like the thing to do. Yeah, like, yeah. And I was sort of like being the bottom feeder that I was, was like had no other options. You know, you talk to some brokers and they're like, oh, I wouldn't touch that site. And. And they're like, oh, I wouldn't touch that site. And I'm like, well, where else am I going to go? I'm like, oh, hotel Delaney, would you take $50,000 for the freehold? Like I don't really have any chance at the you know the prime site, so having you know no money. So that was just like walk in, do whatever you want you know.
Speaker 4:And so, yeah, I had borrowed 100 grand off my brother and he was like a really big NRL player and is still a giant, ultra fit dinosaur style human. Now, Sorry, Dane, I'm only joking Dane, but yeah, borrowed 100 grand off him. I had about 35 grand sitting there. Yeah, yeah, did a reno opened the doors and went here. We bloody go yeah.
Speaker 3:And have been going ever since. Yeah, been going ever since.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I had brief shutdowns in COVID, like everybody else, yeah, but yeah, still just pottering along, did a little mini reno there today actually, oh nice, a mini reno.
Speaker 3:Yeah, mini reno and not a question I think I would be asking. But since you said that, do you think that that's part of the industry is consistently having to like, upgrade and change in order to be relevant? Sort?
Speaker 4:of it's this paradigm of, like people love the institution venues. You know you get the venues that they don't want you to change anything and then you've got the new hot thing. Like I sort of actually tried to position the Happy Wombat I deliberately named it a daggy name because I never wanted to be trendy. Okay, yeah, I never wanted to be. I had an 18-year lease at the time. I've now had another two five-year options added, so I've still got 18 years to go, even though it's 10 years on. And, yeah, I thought I don't want to have a venue that's just like really cool for the 20 to 24-year-olds at the time and then, as they get older and drift off and just stop going out, then the next generation is like well, we're going to the new trendy place. Okay, so it's a real. Yeah, people hospitality experts or whatever have strategies or whatever where they have six-year plans or whatever. I don't really have that. So I want it to be like, you know, Goldbergs on.
Speaker 3:Derby Street Like it's been there forever.
Speaker 4:It hasn't really changed much.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it literally has not changed.
Speaker 4:But that's why it's Goldbergs. You know, Like it's great. You've got Luke DeVico in there now as a great operator and I love that idea that you just where are we going? We'll just go to Goldbergs. Yeah, you know, you don't know why you're going. You're just going there because it's nice. They've got nice staff, it's got a good feeling, and then you have a coffee or whatever. When you're there, you might have a beer. We sort of wanted to make it more beer focused. We didn't want to just be like oh, the bottle beers.
Speaker 3:We wanted to be sort of pretty much half pub, be sort of style venue, half half cafe. Yeah, okay, that's what our goal was. So it was almost like in your head it wasn't to establish, um, a place that, like you say, was going to be trendy, but it was more to establish like an institution where people could come in, yeah, and feel not like they were coming to some trendy place, but coming to like an almost comfortable home kind of pub, exactly Like those establishments that you see, those guys that have just been going to the same pub on the side of the road for like the next 60 years.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I didn't quite want to be like the old pub. I wanted to be the place that you sort of you still felt like. I just wanted to be all things to all people. I know that's sort of dangerous yeah, it's almost more dangerous than being really specific and being a burger joint or whatever. Yeah, I wanted to be like the third year. You're going on a date with your missus for Valentine's Day Okay, you're not going there for your first date. You're going to Blanca yeah, or something cool you know like or whatever the cool one is at the time. Yeah, You're going there for your first date. You're going yeah, really I've got to impress her, but your wombat, you're like, let's go somewhere where we feel comfortable getting a bit pissy and having a laugh with the staff, you know.
Speaker 4:That's what I wanted the wombat to be. Yeah, take your mum out. Or you go out for a smash, a few beers and have a laugh after work, or before you're about to go and hit. Hit the trendy place for the night. Yeah, that's what I want to be. And then eventually the amount of loose.
Speaker 4:Sorry I'm carrying on here, but I've got all these memories coming back of what the Wombats meant the amount of like people that are just sort of walking past and walking on their way between venues and they just end up just there.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Just cutting loose, like you know, singing to NXS on some sort of lock-in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, what would you say is probably your most memorable moment?
Speaker 4:Oh, just the lock-in after lock-in, yeah, like just absolute debaucherous, unhinged nights. Yeah, like you know, just full of just a random mix of people you know from, like you know, in the legally you know allowed hours of course.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I'm tapping my nose. No, please don't. No, I'm really down the line with everything. But yeah, no those sort of times. Yeah, just having that epic. I actually lost my wedding ring there about three months ago. Oh wow, I always like put silver chair tomorrow on and I play the table like a drum and it hurts my hands when I've got my rings on. So I took them off and I remember hearing them tinkle off somewhere on the concrete.
Speaker 4:I thought the fucking cleaners will get it tomorrow, and then I just never found them again. Wow, yeah, so Lou was pretty. She was next to me. She swears she wasn't there, but she was there when I lost the wedding.
Speaker 3:I love that you can be like you were there when it happened. You were there, darling, she was there.
Speaker 4:She was there. You went to.
Speaker 1:I love how I remember because we obviously follow you on socials and I love how you did. I don't know whether it was Super Bowl one year or something, but everyone was there at like 2 o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 4:It was Euros, I think, so we had a fair bit of the foot. There's a lot of expats that sort of go there and know that we've got. We've got a 5 am license that we can open and we have to shut at midnight, but we can apply for like. Special exemptions yeah and all that sort of shit if we have a supporter group that you know gets in in time and says, hey, the Euros are coming up.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I think.
Speaker 4:Tottenham, Liverpool was in the chat. Yeah, that's the one. But we've had like heaps of that sort of stuff. I think the last Euros England made the final and lost again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, that was awesome.
Speaker 4:We had the staff after they knocked off, like having wet pussy shots at five in the morning, you know, like just smashing booze. And then I ended up having an absolute bender that day. It was so much fun. But you're there with all these English expats, devastated, just having fun.
Speaker 3:You know, it's just so community building.
Speaker 4:You know like to fail. It's like Anzac Day, you know like to lose at something sort of brings people together more than winning.
Speaker 3:I think yeah it's funny, hey, those kind of events where losing can be just as bonding as winning.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, you were there.
Speaker 3:The people were weeping, yeah, weeping, in the room, you know with their barbecue sauce from their bacon egg roll in their mouth Anyhow. Well, that's amazing. I mean, obviously you've also got your other establishment On Yonge Street, or the Yonge Hotel.
Speaker 4:The Yonge Street Hotel In Carrington. Yeah, so I, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So that's your other one that you have. How long have you had that one?
Speaker 4:So that came up mid-COVID, like the guy had Carrington Place. Oh, sorry, I'm back to the desk, have I been doing?
Speaker 3:that a bit.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Which is great you get your hands up in the air.
Speaker 4:It's not the most masculine quality. I do it as well, don't I Do?
Speaker 3:you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, You've been really. Oh, that's why you've got those cable ties around your head.
Speaker 3:We put those on him to keep him. Yeah, yeah, just stop yeah.
Speaker 4:Okay, so no begging on the table.
Speaker 4:Yeah, young Strix I came up mid-COVID Scott Webster, really great chef, like really world-renowned chef. He had that during Carrington Place with the Monitas that are the landlords and I think that went really well for about ten years. But I think he just I'm pretty sure he just sort of walked away from it with like a negotiated walk away with the landlords at the time and so the pub was just sitting there and they were running it as a sort of a gastropub, more restaurant-based, Okay and so. But it's very clearly, if you know the building, it's a 100-year-old pub. Yeah, so it's a. Yeah, so I was. You know, my dream, since I started in hospo when I was 18 years old at the Scone Golf Club, was to own a pub. Okay, and you know the Wombat, even though it's like a really fun bar it's like a really fun bar.
Speaker 4:It's not one of those architectural gems.
Speaker 3:It's not a pub. Yeah, yeah, it's not a pub. Yeah, I feel like you're very nostalgic in some of the things that you.
Speaker 4:That's great. I love that's what you've got to be. We were talking before we got on here. Yeah, if you're going to be in hospitality, you've got to have a hook. You've got to be passionate about it in some way. I love schooners and I love icy, cold schooners in beautiful old buildings, like I loved my gap year in England when I was over there just smashing pints in old buildings. There's just something amazing about it.
Speaker 3:It's also the people that you meet in those places. They've just got stories.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes yeah, I love it. My wife and I were having a schooner, oh when Like yesterday, even it might have been the day before at the Duke, which is another great pub, not like your traditional old looking one on the inside, but there was just all these scattering of other people there and we're like it's weird, isn't it Like? Why are we here amongst these strangers smashing these delicious schooners when we could be at home? You know, but it's just something amazing about it, you know.
Speaker 3:You strike me as a real people person like love being around people, love interacting with people.
Speaker 4:Yeah, except when I'm in the car, and they're in cars as well, I hate people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a different story. I think we all lose our shit when it comes to that A lot of rage. But yeah, you definitely. I get the feeling that you love being around people. You're a people person. Has that always been the case with you? Has it always been from a young age?
Speaker 4:100%. Yeah, I've been tortured forever, so I've always been like a nightmare in school. Yeah, yeah, like anyone from Scone will agree, like I've always been high energy, a pain in the neck.
Speaker 3:Is that? I mean, coming from Scone, being a small town, obviously do you feel like that's small town syndrome is like everyone knows everyone, so you're kind of you're forced to get on with people, you're forced to be like in each other's business all the time. Yeah, maybe I don't know.
Speaker 4:Like I think I had some really brilliant mates in Scone. Like it was a great place to grow up. We had a lot of. I don't know whether this is relevant to the question, but like there's just so much autonomy in Scone Like you're all from. I asked my dad this question the other day. I'm like I'm pretty sure we were out independently from four, like because I went to school at four and I said that's when my mum gave me my first bike. She said no, I didn't, I went to school. Yeah. She was like oh yeah, so we were just gone, yeah, and I think a lot of people around that late 30s to later will just remember you know you had to come home when the lights went on. Yeah, all the smoke from the chimneys.
Speaker 4:We literally were. They were just like oh, they're back again. Yeah, I'm like what would you have done if we weren't back?
Speaker 2:Oh, you know get a face on a milk bottle or whatever they did you know back then?
Speaker 4:But yeah, they were just hoping for the best, Whereas we're just like you know, we don't see them. We go up the backyard and they're in the house and we're worried about them, like stabbing each other to death or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's completely different now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I hate it.
Speaker 3:So let's talk about, obviously, being a business owner, especially in today's climate. Covid obviously changed the way business was done. Let's talk about starting a business. What advice would you have for someone maybe today that's starting a business, because it can be really tough and it has changed. As we were discussing before this. Let's go with maybe your.
Speaker 4:I would say top five things that someone starting a business would need to know today um, specific things is keep your costs down, like especially um, I mean, all businesses are relevant. I was talking to a guy that um, like an accountant the other day, uh, and he was talking about how I was sort of whinging about hospitality in particular, about how it's so difficult outside of the pokey world which is another altogether to just any sort of food and beverage-based income coming out of hospitality. It is a grind, it is so difficult. But he was saying that there's so many other businesses it doesn't matter whether you're real estate or building or whatever, they're all saying the same thing Costs are the killer. So it's, yeah, if you're going to start a business, find a model. And I think, as I said earlier, the ones that seem the only sort of entrepreneurial flares that are coming up at the moment in this country are on social media yeah, and that's all these businesses are. I dare say they're not employing people. Yeah, and not in this country anyway. So they've cottoned on. You know you're. Basically, if you're going to go and have a business that's facing the customer, just be ready for the grind. You're not yet.
Speaker 4:It's very, very difficult to get a business going in this state in particular, like this country, over the whole nation. It's very difficult and it's like well documented by multiple podcasters and multiple people, any reel. You see, it is extremely difficult. You've got to watch your costs. Yeah, cost, cost, cost. But the issue is on the other side of it. The other point is you've got to have a product that people love. Yeah, and I have always been, from the get-go, passionate, as you said. I'm passionate about pubs, love schooners, all that sort of shit. I've never done a business plan. I've never done any of the bullshit that they tell you to do right, because I've always been like what does the product need to look?
Speaker 4:like? That I would want to go to. I love schooners, I love going to pubs, I love going to restaurants. What do I want to look for? I love that old and I've created all my things that I've ever done based on stuff that I love. Right, yeah. And then the money works itself out. You set your margins and all that sort of stuff based on the old pub guy that you learn off or whatever yeah yeah, and then it just works.
Speaker 4:That's what it used to happen. You used to just open these venues, set your margin at whatever you know, 3.3 times or whatever you purchase products for or whatever yeah, and then things just work.
Speaker 4:People come in because you've created a really good product, yeah, like, if you don't, if you're so if you go in, really lots of business people these days or aspirational entrepreneurial people will go in really worried about the financial structures on the back end. When, no, no, dickhead, like that stuff. You need to worry about that very much so because the costs are so important. But if you don't have anything that people want, you're not going to have anything to worry about there because you've got no money coming in If you've got cash flow coming in.
Speaker 2:You've got time to sort that shit out.
Speaker 4:And the cash flow only comes from presenting a product that people want.
Speaker 3:Okay. So let me ask you this question, then, because this is a bit of a maybe a double barrel one for you Is your product what you're selling, or is the product the customer?
Speaker 4:What you're selling Like. Oh no, so hang on. So no, sorry, I answered that too quickly. Yeah, you go.
Speaker 3:The reason why I say it's double-barreled is because I know you both are pretty much intertwined. You need a product to sell to a customer in order to obviously have a business, and you need a customer to buy your product in order then to make money.
Speaker 4:You need to have a product. For me, this is what I tried to tell while we struggled in COVID. I tried to tell my staff our product isn't the food and beverage we sell. It it is not Like that is not what the Wombat is and what Yonge Street is. Especially, pubs are the space. Okay, the product is the space. So when you're trying to do, oh, why don't you do Uber Eats? And you can fucking do that, you know, oh, great idea. Thanks, dickhead. No, like I'm not going to compete as a burger restaurant.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I've got really nice burgers and I'd hold them up to anyone in town and say, hey, we've got a really nice beef burger. Let's have a competition here. Yeah, but we're not known for beef burgers. Yeah, I love our pizzas, but we're not, like you know, fancy Italian restaurant. Yeah, some fancy Italian restaurant. Like our products. I'm really proud of them. It sounds like I'm not like sort of focused on them. I products. I'm really proud of them. It sounds like I'm not like sort of focused on them I love. Like a good example actually I've got one of my best mates is Corey Crooks, who's got the grain store. Yeah, he's got the whole package. He's very good across the board with all the product is not just an independent beer that he loves and independent whiskey and Australian and Hunter Valley focused. He's also very focused on that product of the venue.
Speaker 3:Yes, right. Yes, it's a great venue. I love that place. Great venue, right Great venue.
Speaker 4:So he's good at a lot of these things, right. I love independent beer on a. I love supporting small business scale, but I also smash Forex gold like you would never understand.
Speaker 2:It's like when me and you went to the pub the other day to talk about this and I was like, what is he going to drink? I?
Speaker 1:was like this is really weird. And he goes what are you having? I'm like, I'll have whatever you have, and he comes back with two. Two is new.
Speaker 4:And I'm like I haven't had direct.
Speaker 1:Two is new since I was 18.
Speaker 4:I've got back onto it lately because the gold's just not cutting the stress out as much as it should, but then I'll sit there and have a mountain culture, status quo or some 8%, you know whatever. Ipa yeah, and I love it Like I call myself non-binary as a beard reader, which is great.
Speaker 1:Non-binary yeah.
Speaker 4:I get criticized from everyone, yeah.
Speaker 3:I love the fact that you are Like you're not, I want to say, very narrow-minded in the way you think You're very broad spectrum in how you approach not only business but approach your philosophy on how you run things and how you do things, which is great. And I love that you're not, because what I find nowadays is that you can be a lot of businesses come through very niche, so like, for instance, a shop will open up and it's just a side bowls and it's like that's great. I feel like there can be more than just acai bowls.
Speaker 4:It's funny you say that because I was up at Burley the other day and there was this acai bowl shop and I was like God, that was good, it was delicious. There's ridiculously attractive people everywhere. You feel very oval. You feel like you're going all right physically and then you're like I'm going terribly, I'm so shit. I better have an acai bowl. Yeah, so it works in that market where you're getting shamed everywhere you walk because you're desperately trying to be healthy.
Speaker 4:You try and sort of like not feel like you're going to get spat on by the local population. But I was like, could you bring it down here?
Speaker 3:They've already got one, they've already got one down here and I was like could you bring it down here?
Speaker 4:They've already got one.
Speaker 3:They've already got one down here and I went there and it was delicious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, berry Brothers in Derby Street, they're great, but the funniest thing is you had an asari bowl and they went and smashed 10 bees.
Speaker 4:Is that right? Yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've got to hang on Again, broad.
Speaker 3:I don't want to get too niche. Sometimes and almost I feel like can be too niche, because once you start like, let's just say where's all the yogurt places. Yeah, but what happened to the yogurt? We used to have a place called um. I don't know if you would have. Definitely wouldn't have been here. Probably it was called waka berry in south africa and it was literally frozen yogurt, and then you could go in like agile toppings, like we had a lollies or chocolate or whatever you wanted on top.
Speaker 4:What was that cool? And you had different flavours. Isn't that one? Is it the Cold Rock? Is that the ice cream place? Well, yeah, that's the ice cream one. That's the ice cream one.
Speaker 3:It was literally like you had you could go self-serve your frozen yoghurt.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's what I was talking about. We had a version of it at the market town and everyone was onto that and everyone was on to that Everyone loved it, yeah.
Speaker 4:But the thing is I think with these, oh, now I did it again. Stop touching the desk, stop banging the desk. No, I think that I look at those entrepreneurial people and I go they've got a plan. These people are planned, calculated. They have, like they've done, business models where they can see a graph that judges fad. And then you know the fidget spinner people or whatever, yeah, and they know they're surely not going in thinking this is a forever project.
Speaker 2:They've taken a lease.
Speaker 4:They're checking it twice. No, I'm sorry, hey Santa.
Speaker 3:I thought you'd done a Christmas time.
Speaker 4:I don't know why I just rolled up. They've taken a lease and oh're looking at it and they're going right. This is going to be a four-year project.
Speaker 2:And they're going to make their money and they're going to get in and they're going to get out and they're smart and they're smarter than me and I could not.
Speaker 4:I'm trying now. My little plan is, once I sort of, you know we move on to the whole, like getting out of the other business, yeah, we have to focus on one. Okay, right, which is what I sort of want to do due to kids, and we'll get onto that later. Yeah, but I want to sort of look at being a bit of a smarter businessman that's just ruthlessly efficient in trying to finance, you know, suck as much money out of the population as I can. Yeah, I don't think I'm just not like that.
Speaker 3:I just you know, but that's why I asked you. The question was for me, your commodity is not the product that you're selling. Your commodity is people. Your commodity is you want a good reputation with the people. That's right. Therefore, the people come through the door, and the more people that come through the door and have a good time, yes, that for you is success. Self-fulfilling prophecy yeah, but it's not fulfilling prophecy.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but this is what the hard part about the last four years has been. That was what you did. Yeah, you know the whole hot food, cold beer, nice coffee, just nice staff that look after you. That was what the goal was. And then you didn't do. There was no social media, there was none of this bullshit. There was none of and look, yes, you sort of have to do it, but there was none of it because you just had a good reputation based on word of mouth.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And even now I still do believe that's still 80% to 90% of your success. Yeah, 100% I agree, but it's just, there's so many other factors now that have sort of sucked it away, and you'll be there doing all those things. You'll be like, hey, how are?
Speaker 4:you Come on sort of sucked it away and you'll be there doing all those things. You'll be like, hey, how are you? Come on, you're swearing at your customers like you usually do and you know that thing that you're having a bit of fun and all that, but there's just not as many people going out Like office workers have just disappeared. A lot of the you know like had a 40% reduction or something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I also feel like what happens. What tends to happen nowadays is that you'll have 99 of customers will come through your door and you'll have a great time and they will maybe say to one or two people and it'll be great and you have a good reputation. Amongst those 99, you'll have one percent that'll come through and we'll have a shit experience by whatever the situation is, yeah, and they will shut it from the rooftops.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but that's always been the case. That has always been the case and that all of a sudden then overshadows the 99% of people. That's why you have to be on all the time, because you will always. That has never been not the case. People listen to bad news. People go straight to the one-star oh sorry, the one-star reviews. I do it, yeah. Just for a laugh, yeah, just to see where they did, you know, just to see the hurt that that person felt that time you know, but like just for a laugh, just to read it, but like people will always tell bad news more than they will good.
Speaker 4:That's why you have to be so bloody good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I remember when my wife and I were traveling overseas, we obviously, when we were looking for places to stay, you Google everything and then you go oh, this place has got four stars, or this place has only got three and a half stars.
Speaker 3:And then we go oh okay, we'll go to the four and a half star because it's got good reviews and it's like that's great, but at the end of the day, those other places could be just as good, if not better. But because they may be not getting the kind of people that are then going to post the reviews, that you're not automatically judging them based on a very, maybe small percentage of people that have walked through the door.
Speaker 4:France is a great example. There's so many bad reviews from like in Paris. I was in Paris for the Rugby World Cup. I think it was. Was it last year?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Year before year, before 2023. Yeah, 2023.
Speaker 3:And I was there and went to this, so that's the one that one yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:God, yeah, but you guys, there's something going on there. It's like elite humanity. They just run. I don't know what the hell All of them are, just these giant elite humans. Oh dude.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, that's a whole other podcast. Trust me, yeah, yeah yeah. I could talk for days on that.
Speaker 4:It's like in June, how, like the tough conditions you know, has made a really powerful population of people. Yeah, yeah, maybe you'll take over the world, okay. Oh yeah, maybe you'll take over the world, okay. Oh, so I've got to go back on, okay, cool yeah so yeah, anyway, what were we talking about? God damn it. So we were talking about five things to talk about yeah, top five things.
Speaker 3:And you said obviously I really know how to digress. Yeah, don't I.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you said keep your costs down keep your costs down, keep your product, keep your product perfect, keep your product. Your product is the main thing. Like I mean, I don't even know that I've got five things in me. Like, seriously, the product is the most important thing. But these days, the reason I said cost is because cost is just so front of mind for everybody. You know I'm in business now and just I'm not starting the business.
Speaker 4:So I've got these products which I'm really proud of and I keep on looking at them in troubled times, like the last 18 months anyone will tell you has been so challenging and in hospitality especially. And you sit there and I walk around with my staff and I go what's wrong with this venue? You know, like what is going on. We've got people in there's vibe. You know I look at the turnover and I go, oh, this is pretty good, you know. But every week you seem to go a little bit backwards. You know You'll bounce back up and you know you've got the guy with the knife chasing you and I think was that before?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was before, but that's a great analogy.
Speaker 4:Maybe share that yeah so the analogy I was using was you know those horror movies where you've got the guy very slowly with a knife walking behind, but you seems to always be there, yeah, and you sort of run and you'll get away from him a little bit, and then you'll turn around and he's just there. Well, that's your cost, yeah, that's your cost. They're just consistently grinding away with the knife in their hand, waiting to stab you to death.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and like one week you'll have a good week and you sprint away. Yeah, yeah, you'll get away. Then you'll trip and you to go back for Jenny or whatever.
Speaker 4:And then, all of a sudden, they're there again, they're going to get you and they're going to hurt you.
Speaker 4:And that's the scary part about the cost. So that's why it's front of mind. Everybody at the moment has just been like how do we? I'm proud of the product, which is number two now, which used to be my number one Starting a business up still is number one, but it's just these costs. It, with these costs, it's just unbelievable. You'll have the product that you want. You'll be doing everything, all the little which will be my next point all the small things. You're doing, all the small things. You're giving straws out when they're needed. You're making sure coasters are on all the tables, all that sort of stuff. You're doing everything you possibly can. And you still got this murderer in the background. He's still chasing. He's still there, like in the mirror. He's still chasing. He's still there, like get away, leave him alone, get away from me.
Speaker 4:I've got the coasters. See, I've got the coasters. The coasters are on the table, just get out of here. Anyway, you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, so that's it. Cost product absolutely used to be, but it's been things You've got to make sure you're doing the little things, huge like.
Speaker 4:I made a list when I was working at Bar Broadway in Sydney. You know, at four in the morning I was on 24-hour. Yeah, it was a 24-hour pub at the time seven or sevens and yeah, I was just sitting there. If I ever got into a pub, what the things? Because I was just like so in love with this fucking industry at that time, you know, even though I was doing 24-hour pubs, but I was just loving it, you know the fun of it, and I just made a list of all these little things I would do, like coasters, like nice thick coasters, branded coasters of your own, so that that would be important. Have it blank on the other side so that you could write stuff on it, like that was important to me. Making sure that the bar was always wiped down at the front bar so that it was like nice and comfortable Cleaning underneath the table so there wasn't any chewing, all these little things.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:That Make a difference that you don't know off the top of your. The customer, the punter, doesn't understand. They'd like, like, until it's missing, until it's missing, yeah, until it's missing. Then you go somehow. This is shit, this pub experience of that is.
Speaker 1:Every time when we used to get coffee cups delivered and they would deliver the white lid and the white cup. It would annoy me and everyone would know. All the staff would be like oh my God, don't tell Mark. The white lids have come. And Siri's like it's okay, we can have white lids and I'm like, but they should be black because they don't look right.
Speaker 4:It looks the same as about taking the chewing gum underneath the table. No, it's true. It stops being what your vision of the perfect product is.
Speaker 1:It was supposed to be a black and white cup. Yeah, and they cost the same.
Speaker 4:And those guys have just done it out of convenience or stupidity.
Speaker 2:Why am I?
Speaker 4:suffering for it over this box of fucking goddamned coffee.
Speaker 3:The other thing I think that maybe has become less important is back in the day it used to be location, location, location. Nowadays, I think, maybe based on social media, that's not necessarily as important as it used to be, and my favorite example of this is somewhere like Farmer's Wife Distillery.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, oh my God, that's amazing, that place.
Speaker 3:And it's an incredible establishment, yeah, and out in the middle of nowhere, literally surrounded by nothing.
Speaker 4:Glorious spaceship landed in the middle of a beautiful paddock.
Speaker 3:Literally the most beautiful spot and about 45 minute drive from Newey and it's like. But you go like people would drive because they're like. This place is amazing. It is good food, good service, good vibe and it's like it's a good experience.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and people love that, love it. It nails the stuff. I was saying that. Corey nails it nails, product and place. I would argue that that place would be amazing without social media.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. Would you have ever put a distillery down there? I would never. I would have said to my wife we'll go broke, You're never going to get anyone there. That's the thing.
Speaker 3:Everyone would have said the location is no, one's going to see you, no one's going to drive past you.
Speaker 1:No, no one would know, but you're a destination store.
Speaker 3:But yeah, you would be like if someone was driving on holiday. It would be like one of those little kiosks that you would go like in the middle of nowhere, like if I was going to somewhere.
Speaker 4:Murray's. I know it's not a big year ride, but I think that that would be her travelling somewhere and seeing something similar, which is a nightmare for me, to say as a lisper, seeing something similar.
Speaker 2:It really fused out the microphone, I thought it was great.
Speaker 4:But like, yes, she would have gone travelling somewhere and seen that work like in the States or something like that, and gone, this can work.
Speaker 1:I think the other good example is Trinity eh.
Speaker 3:Trinity, if you told me, Is that over the one over the lake? Yeah, up at the Morrisette Jack.
Speaker 1:If you were like I'm going to open a restaurant in Morrisette, I would have been like you have lost your mind.
Speaker 3:And like that high end as well, it's a high end spot In Morrisette.
Speaker 1:Sorry the.
Speaker 2:Morrisette listeners.
Speaker 4:I haven't been to it, but I I've seen your photos. It's that really swanky. Yeah, it's really swanky. It's like.
Speaker 3:Great Gatsby vibe. That's literally what I think of when.
Speaker 4:I think of training. It's apparently amazing and we're not a go. I've found out Bloody expensive, very expensive, as it bloody should be.
Speaker 3:These are the only ones that can charge what you should be charging, but the problem is like that's the thing is, and it's always full. It's always busy. People are there Because product, product, product, product and every time I've been.
Speaker 1:It's perfect.
Speaker 3:It's good.
Speaker 1:You cannot fault People pay for stuff if it's worth being paid for, but it's a 45-minute drive from Newcastle and if you want to have a drink it costs $350 to get there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, how do you get around? Like I don't know, is everyone's booze drink driving?
Speaker 1:No, I think, designated driver. Yeah, you've got your DDs. Dds, because I inquired.
Speaker 4:I think you're Dorotes or DDs. No, no, designated driver, and you've got Waze as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you've got Waze. I hope you know.
Speaker 4:Not that we'd ever do that Don't drink and drive.
Speaker 3:you know, yeah, this isn't being me, but yeah again, my point was I feel like that whole concept of location, location, location, because what I also find is then you get people who will put on prime locations and they fold within the first three months, correct, because, like you say, they maybe don't have the right product or, you know, maybe it's just not the right thing for the area where it is.
Speaker 4:An example I will use of this being not like so the dockyard when I was down there, the boardwalk right honeysuckle on the water, like. It's what your perception of what a like location is. Yeah he's a good location so that location can have lots of competition. That location can have no soul. You know it can be by the water everyone's like by the water gonna be a success yeah, great well, like the dockyard had the worst view out of the lot of them, but it was always the most busy and that was because it was next to the road.
Speaker 4:We theorised, so you had the road there, where it bends around, there at the boardwalk, and so there was always more foot traffic. And what do people want to be when they're out Around other people?
Speaker 2:They want to get dressed up.
Speaker 4:They buy the water They've got away from their kids for the night and they've got themselves half sexied up and they want to be seen by other people. So that's why the dockyard ended up being the best spot on that site. Then you had Isobar, which had a bloom for a bit and then they went away. Then you had I think it's had multiple that other site at the other end, yeah, where Hope Steakhouse is now.
Speaker 1:Oh, Hope Estate's there now.
Speaker 4:Yeah which I've heard is actually really good.
Speaker 3:Is that open now, that Hope Estate? Is it open? It's open, yeah.
Speaker 4:And I've heard good things, but I think that they've gone. It's about the style of venue you're putting in, so the landing was sort of there. Just if you've ever sat there, it's an incredible view, oh, amazing view. Like Absolutely picturesque, amazing, only about another 80 metres up the road from the dockyard. Yeah, and it was just so often empty all the time.
Speaker 4:It's on the water prime location. But now I think maybe the idea of a steakhouse will work there, because you're going there for a steak and all there is a nice view, You're not just depending on people wanting to sit by the water and have a beer. So you've sort of had a hook of some description.
Speaker 3:I also feel and maybe this is somewhere where you can is reputation sometimes precedes things. So, for instance, excuse me, qt Hotel yeah, qt Hotel, I would say, is pretty good. It's got a good reputation. It is ridiculously expensive and I don't. My personal opinion is I don't feel like you get what you pay for. That's my personal opinion and I'm sorry if that offends someone, but that's my personal opinion. And I feel like, but because it has a reputation of its upmarket, that people will go there because it's like well, I go to the QT and the QT has this reputation of swank, and so that puts me in that category. Now, have you been to the rooftop on the QT?
Speaker 3:It's nothing special it's got maybe a nice view but that's about it.
Speaker 1:But they're charging $45 for a glass of wine. Yeah, oh.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I remember going there with some friends and for three drinks I think it was like $110. I was like I almost fell off my chair.
Speaker 4:I was like this is ridiculous, yeah, but I think that that would be almost a strategy to keep people out.
Speaker 2:Yes, 100%.
Speaker 4:Like people that don't give a shit. I think that's the whole idea. They've got a brand that they'd uphold Like you don't see that's what I say.
Speaker 4:their reputation, they don't doing a run-out deal, you know, like end of financial year. Maybe they do, but it's like, not like that. It's not like oh, we've halved our prices, you know? Like they don't want it, that's just a brand thing. Yeah, like they don't give a shit that it's too expensive. They want people to say, jeez, it was expensive there. Yeah, because then the people that worry about expense don't go.
Speaker 3:And there's only limited seats, yeah, but.
Speaker 1:I also think it's the theatre they create, like when you're downstairs.
Speaker 3:You've got to get up in the lift and they talk in their headset and they're like oh, we've got two people here, but it's the reputation.
Speaker 4:We've got a five-hour here. Pick the.
Speaker 3:Charlie, that's what I say. It's the reputation Like Hope Estate, for instance. Everyone knows about Hope Estate out in Hunter Valley, so so it's really bringing that reputation with it. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Which can work against you sometimes as well Like it's a tricky one, but I feel like that's not why people aren't necessarily going there because it's Hope Estate Steakhouse. They're going there because it's a steakhouse and it's well done. They know that Hope would have spent a lot of money on it and done it, and I think it's going to work Like I do, because Newcastle lacked a steakhouse.
Speaker 3:Yeah 100%.
Speaker 4:Yeah, there was nowhere to. You had the Burwood burnt to the ground.
Speaker 3:It hasn't come back. The.
Speaker 4:Prince has probably got the best steak in Newcastle Outside of the Happy Wombat. I would actually say the Happy.
Speaker 1:Wombat steak's pretty good. It's pretty bloody good. Yeah, roselle, on flour and Tasmanian pepper, berry juice. But also to go out and have a steak, fancy carrots and fancy chips. You're dropping $85 for one meal. Yeah, Also not something that you could do all the time.
Speaker 3:I think there's this huge chasm nowadays where, like you say, people who go to the QT, they don't care how much they're putting down, correct, so they're going to go down there and it's going to come to $300 at the end of the night and they'll get 200 grams of sirloin and whatever and they'll be like oh, that was lovely.
Speaker 1:It was lovely, but you're hungry and have to go to McDonald's on the way home and then it's fine, Like they don't care.
Speaker 3:They throw $300 down and it means nothing to them. Then you get the people out there that are like maybe I'm going to go out once every two weeks because budget's tight and me and my missus want to just go and therefore are going to be a on a stake. Yes, but there are options. So I saw this guy one of the big pub groups was sort of.
Speaker 4:I think it might have been a laundry group, a representative from that about 12 months ago, right in the midst of the real slide into the abyss of inflation, right.
Speaker 2:And he was talking about the hospitality market.
Speaker 4:All these people were like going into liquidation and voluntary administration and SBRs and all this stuff and they yeah, he was talking about saying it was an hourglass market, the hospitality market at the moment because with inflation going up and interest rates going up, they had sorry, interest rates is the main point here they had all the people in the top end of the category, the people with money, you know the haves. They just had more money because their interest rates were going up and all their money that they just got parked there in their trust funds or whatever were killing it.
Speaker 4:So the top end restaurants and the ones like the QT or whatever, like you know, all the Swill House Group guys in Sydney, all the like going to Nomad, and all these Surry Hills awesome restaurants where you are paying an absolute fortune for everything $14 for a can of beer when you go to sit down, whatever the ones that you want to go to, the ones that have got great product, hood Spa, the ones that you go I really want to go to the Hubert or whatever you know. They're the ones that they were killing it through this period because people with money that wanted to go to have an experience, so they didn't care. Then you had the bottom end of the market where people are going and buying cans of, you know, woodstock or whatever. That end started booming as well. And all the clubs and all the like, the discount pubs. They were actually going pretty well in this time as well because they stole what was where a lot of the hospitality market is Like.
Speaker 4:Newcastle 25 years ago didn't have all these bars and restaurants.
Speaker 4:Right, it had pubs, nightclubs and a few nice restaurants, but then they had this like absolute onslaught of venues like mine, happy Wombat, and, you know, ketetsu and all these little whiskey bars and all this sort of stuff popped up in the last 15 years and that was catering to the middle class, right, the people that were getting older, that were, you know, they're late twenties, whatever and they wanted something nice and they had a little bit of money because they were going out there and they had a home loan or they were starting to get married, and that's who our customers were. And then this killed them, the aspirational middle class that went and got home loans far too high. They didn't get one, you know, when they were 20. They got it when they were 30. So they only got it like probably seven years ago or just before COVID or just after COVID. They're the ones that have been smashed by this and that's who what all these venues were catering to. And so they just everyone just disappeared and flitted off.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And they went down. They went down and went to the clubs because they still wanted to go out, but they were buying a $16 snitzel or whatever that's being subsidised by the desperate husband that nicks in and smashes $150 of money into the poker machines. Yeah, that's what happened to the whole hospitality market. I get really frustrated in Australia, in Newcastle in particular, at the low, especially this word of like discretionary spending, like the part of the economy that exists within the discretionary part of the economy, whereas the non-discretionary part of the economy, everyone's just like oh, yeah, well, it's expensive, isn't it? Oh, energy Australia is expensive, isn't it? Oh, bloody, you know.
Speaker 4:The banks. Oh, they're up to interest rates. Oh, gosh, golly, they're a bit naughty. Are you going to change banks? No, you know, like, that really annoys me that we don't value the hospitality sector in this country and in this city like we should Like. We should Like you go to places like Lyon, you go to any like. The reason why people travel to Italy, travel to Europe in general, is because of the culture of having coffee, having. It's where we gained all this food culture when all the Europeans came over in the 50s, 60s, 70s. That's why we travel there and we just turn our back on it. At the moment Interest rates go up 1% because it gets slightly more expensive, like it is not discretionary. In those countries they would never give up having a coffee or going out for a meal.
Speaker 3:Do you know what I mean? They're always going to do it. I think it's such a tough one because I think priorities change for people when things get tighter, and I think the problem is like when we talk about inflation, like you've said is that we start to categorize things when it comes to things getting tight. So we start to go okay, let's put things into the non-negotiable things where we have to pay the rent, the mortgage. Go, okay, let's put things into the non-negotiable things that we have to pay the rent, the mortgage, blah, blah, blah. But I think what happens is people start to categorize those on status, like we were talking about earlier.
Speaker 4:True, that's very interesting.
Speaker 3:For instance, rather than drive a car that's just going to get me $50 a month, I need to buy a car that is going to cost me $500 a month, and so that now falls in my you know, first primary category.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because I'm 35 now and I've got an important job and I have to look at a specific thing and act a specific thing away, and so therefore, now that becomes primary, whereas you know something where it's like communicating with my wife and going for dinner and taking her out Now I become secondary, because now I can't afford to do that. So it's just like where do we find our value? Is it in status, in terms of like? I want to look like I'm doing well to other people. Therefore, I need a fancy car and I need a big house, even though I know that that's going to strap me and it's going to have to be.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you're going to sacrifice.
Speaker 3:It's going to sacrifice other things.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's a change of life thing as well. Like I remember that was one of my justifications for buying a nice car. I was like, well, I'm not going out buying a bag and getting smack in the pokies every Thursday anymore, you know, like I'm like sorry, I'm not like going out there, like debaucherizing my life every weekend. I am a hospitality 25-year person, I believed, but I'm not spending all that money on buying a new shirt because I need to keep up appearances anymore. Like I'm just sitting around watching Netflix and smacking you know a hard solo or whatever. Yeah, like it's a cheaper life when you live at home.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, because you're not worried about status anymore, you're just worried about enjoying it.
Speaker 4:But I still think it does really bug me Like this thing. I know I'm harping on it I hate the fact that we don't value, we don't have that cosmopolitan fun Like even Newcastle, like I love Newcastle. But moving up here from Sydney, like you know, 16, 17 years ago I was shocked at the lack of after work schooners or even lunch schooners. Like sydney is a wash with schooners, schooners, schooners. All day. Everyone's having schooners. They're looking for a meeting so they can have the schooner. I know I'm saying that a lot, but it was so cool, like that was what I loved. Moving from scone into the center of sydney I was like wow, everyone's just on the piss all the time but that's community, I think.
Speaker 3:I think at the moment there is such a lack of community and that's what you were saying Back in the day. Offices used to be a lot more tight-knit than they were now. You used to have people that were in the offices they would work in the offices for like 10 years maybe, and the person next to them they'd been working with, they actually developed a relationship with them.
Speaker 4:So when it came to lunches they were like let's go have a beer, or off the work, what are you doing? Let's catch up, let's do something. Well, they stopped being allowed to do it. Yeah, as well. Yeah, like it was like actually like legislated oh, you're not allowed to have a drink of work. It's where most stuff got, most good stuff happened oh, but and and.
Speaker 3:Nowadays it's like the, the turnover of staff becomes so dramatic that what's happening is linkedin yeah, you just can't develop a relationship with people where that's what you're doing anymore, yeah, and secondly, I think what's happening is obviously a lot more people are doing online and stuff like you're saying, so employees are becoming less and less in businesses.
Speaker 4:And there's less passion for the businesses. It's sort of exactly that. I think it was pre-podcast. We were talking about how that lack of like interest in the actual businesses that you're a part of anymore it's just one you can vacuum out of the business to further your financial situation. It's not. You're not on board with what the company is doing.
Speaker 4:You don't buy into the values, because so often what the company does is sell garbage Like. There's so much of the economy that is just selling shit. Why would you be passionate about selling plastic toys to the population, so much of it is just? You could take most of the garbage out of the economy. None of it's needed, and yet everyone's just there, you know, crawling over themselves to sell it to you and that's all. Instagram's become now Like. If you look at it now and it's like just like TV. Remember how late at night TV ads used to get more down your throat, like you'd watch the movie. You'd start watching. You know, I don't know whatever you were watching Die Hard or whatever at the time yeah, great movie. Yeah, great movie. At the start there was like no ad breaks for like 15 minutes, yeah, and then by the end of the movie, every five minutes, there was an ad break, yeah, and they're doing that now with Instagram and all the other shit. You wait, look tonight you start scrolling.
Speaker 3:I don't have Instagram. I've gone off Instagram. God you're cool. Literally because of that, I was like I can't do it, it's just advertising.
Speaker 4:It's just become sexy Demtel.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I was thinking the other day.
Speaker 4:It's like Demtel, if you don't remember, was like that advertising stuff in the daytime TV yeah.
Speaker 3:Where you'd have some like, like they're presenting you like knife sets.
Speaker 1:And you're going to get free five.
Speaker 2:Call now Call now Whatever.
Speaker 4:Now it's just sexy. Demtel on Instagram. You've got like podcasters and whatever selling you like Magic Mind.
Speaker 3:Yeah, not us, we don't have that.
Speaker 4:We don't sell Magic Mind.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we don't sell Magic Mind Do you or not? No, we don't, I'm not saying it's a bad thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, true.
Speaker 4:Sorry.
Speaker 2:It's a bad thing this other guy, rogan.
Speaker 4:Joe, you know what I'm saying. So it's just become all about selling garbage products. That's what Instagram's become, but that's what the whole of the economy's become. So why would you, as an employee, give a shit?
Speaker 1:But did you find, and when we had our business, did you find that you wanted to make sure you had good employees and had employees that were the culture, the culture I was?
Speaker 4:just talking to one of my ex-employees from the dockyard when I was just running the dockyard. But like she was there, she's got her own business now. She's something more design, like Keely, he's a legend and she was there talking about how her parents had come into the Wombat a couple of weeks ago and that the staff were just like the dockyard staff back in the day. And how does Luke get these people and it's like, well, because I break their spirits when they get to come out of school.
Speaker 2:We train them.
Speaker 4:No, you train them but you also just get them with a bit of banter. You know, you create a culture you don't accept just surly whinging little mopes, you know, and that becomes a good cultural thing. And then they care about that product, which is the venue, not the beer you don't have to give a shit about beer or wine or coffee. You have to care about making people happy.
Speaker 3:But that's why I asked you in the beginning is your product, is it what you're selling, or is it actually the people? Because if it's the people, then what you do is your people that work for you. Then look after the people. They don't worry about the product that you're selling, because if they look after the people, the people are generally going to obviously be happy anyway.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Even if even if it's the product is maybe substandard.
Speaker 3:they come in there and they have a good time and they're like oh, that waiter was so cool, he made me laugh or I really enjoyed the vibe in there. You know, maybe it was just a bad day in the kitchen, it doesn't matter, but I definitely want to go back there.
Speaker 4:It can be a brand association as well. I use the example of like VB being the most popular beer in the country. It's always in the top ten right, Like some of the worst, shittiest beers are the most popular beers and it's because of a brand association that these old blokes have got with it. I know publicans in the past that have put on different beers and guys that are like almost would have a fight with you if you got them a Carlton Draft instead of a VB and I've seen them drink.
Speaker 4:VB that's been actually tapped a Carlton Draft can and not know the difference. And this is not in my venues and I've never done this. I swear I might have done it with Melbourne, Bitter and Phoebe. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Sure, you've always done it.
Speaker 4:No, I haven't, actually, I don't think I have anyway, but like I know, oh, that's the action, could I tell.
Speaker 3:I'll tell you it was back in the day then and I was there at the time, but yeah but, yeah, this, these guys are passionate about this because of this association with the brand that that's their fucking beer that their dad drank, and sorry. Like yeah, that's fine, you get what I'm saying. Yeah, um, so I'm going to just change a bit of channel here because obviously we've spoken a lot about business, which has been great, but, and especially obviously, about your, um, how you function in business and maybe some of the tips and tricks. Let's look a little bit more on the personal side of things for you. Obviously, you and I were chatting. You have three kids, yep, three kids, three kids, three boys, three boys, you've obviously. I mean that must be incredible to have three boys.
Speaker 4:First of all, yeah, yeah, very lucky Dream country. What are the?
Speaker 3:age differences between Nine seven and four. Nine seven and four, that's a good gap actually.
Speaker 4:It is a good gap, but there's never a good gap. It's just hard, it's hard. The kids are just really really hard yeah.
Speaker 3:Now you have one that has a bit of a condition a disability.
Speaker 4:Yeah that's right so.
Speaker 3:Charlie, do you care to expand on that for us a little bit yeah of course, yeah.
Speaker 4:So Charlie was born nine years ago, obviously nine and a half years ago, and like two weeks after he was born we found out he had Down syndrome. So, yeah, so we had no idea leading in. We had all the scans, nothing had come up. You know, your first kid. You don't understand how much you love, you're going to love your child, you know. And so I was always asking you know, is there any sign of any sort of disability, like cystic fibrosis or Down syndrome or cerebral palsy, anything like that? You know these things that everyone hopes, that you know, doesn't happen to them.
Speaker 4:And yeah, charlie Lou went in for a scan five weeks out from the due date and she rang me and said, hey, we've got to have the baby in the next 24 hours. I'm like, what do you mean? And they're like, oh, the blood supply is shutting down to the fetus or whatever. And yeah, they need to get him out. And yeah, so we went in. We didn't know it was him at the time actually. So yeah, went in and yeah, had him like 6 am, not the next day, but the day after.
Speaker 3:Five weeks pre-m. That's crazy yeah yeah.
Speaker 4:And then, yeah, two weeks went by. She was in there and everything was fine, no suspicion of it. And then she had a. She was checking out from the hospital about two days out from it and they said, oh, we're going through the test, like a list of stuff. And the guy was like, oh look, you know one of the things. He's got a single line in his palm. So a single palm. You know, you clasp your hand. So apparently having one line there can mean that you've got Down syndrome.
Speaker 4:I don't know, oh, wow, and so they said oh, you know, he's got a single line there. It could mean you have Down syndrome. We don't think he's got Down syndrome, blah, blah, blah blah. And then just kept on moving on with the list. Yeah, and Lou rang me and was like this has just happened, yeah. And I said, well, no, no, don't worry about it, I wouldn't worry about it, we don't think he's got it. And then we did the blood test. Two days later we're all ready to go with the capsule. And he's walked in and he closed the door behind him.
Speaker 3:Oh goodness, yeah yeah, the quiet door closed.
Speaker 4:I'm like oh shit, there we go, yeah, and that was yeah. Then he told us you know, Charlie's got Down syndrome and yeah, it was one of those moments you'll never forget. Yeah, I can imagine, yeah, yeah, collapse. Yeah, yeah, A very, very, very difficult thing to come to terms with as a first parent as well. Like not, you know, you have all these, yeah, so, yeah, so that's what happened. But, yeah, essentially the hardest part about it was and Lou will say this it's like you have these two weeks where you have this child, where they don't have a disability, and you have all these are you talking about especially your first kid. You're like, what are they going to do?
Speaker 3:All the things they're going to achieve, all the things they're going to do?
Speaker 4:What are we going to try and aim for them? You know, and then that happens and your whole it's like you have two kids. Yeah, that happens, and your whole it's like you have two kids. Yeah, you know. And then all of a sudden your expectations change and then you have the follow-up question, One of the hardest things. They don't really talk, you don't really talk about the possibility of having a child with a disability anyway. But then you find out this thing that's happened and then within very quickly, they'll tell you all their complications.
Speaker 4:They'll be like, well, they're more likely to get leukemia. Their life expectancy is this oh, wow, they're more likely to, you know, have like a shorter life and blah, blah and all this stuff. Like they're going to have to check his heart straight away because he ended up having open-heart surgery, he ended up having epilepsy. So that was the hardest thing. That was like three months of real not a bit longer like real stress, like trying to figure out, because they were like you know what, if we don't get the medication, oh, that can mean retardation and all this sort of stuff. And it's also casually delivered, not without heart. But you know, coming to terms with that sort of stuff was like very, very, very hard of that sort of stuff was like very, very, very hard. But you know, we came around pretty quickly. I must say, like you know it took us. By the time we were driving him home we were like, nah, well, this is it, he's going to have an amazing life. You know he wouldn't have had a life.
Speaker 4:If you know, if some people, a lot of people, terminate, if they find that out on the 12-week scan and the life and look who's to know, like the first child, there's a good chance that maybe I would have pushed for that if I'd found that out and I think about that all the time. Yeah, and I'm so, I feel so glad that they didn't find out, because I think on our second kid, after figuring out that love that you have for any child, it's a different kind of thing. Like I had one of my dad's mates ring me or text me straight after Charlie was born, before we'd found out, and he said now you know how much your dad loves you and that second child. I don't think I would have been, I certainly wouldn't have pushed for like a termination with Charlie or with a child with a disability, because you love your children just so much. Yeah, you would just never imagine doing it.
Speaker 3:Having a second child after something like that would have been fairly challenging, Stressful yeah stressful. The anxiety for you and your wife obviously would have been quite Well yeah, we had these big debates.
Speaker 4:We're like, what are we doing? What would we do if we found out again? So we did the tests and we're like what would we do? And we came to the conclusion that no, we wouldn't terminate. But the whole stressful thing was we wanted to have more children so that we could have a family. You know, that helps Charlie. There was a Herald report about my life, sort of like shortly after that, after Charlie was born, and they mentioned that Charlie had Down syndrome. This is like within a month after it and we had Ben who's now working for us. These parents sort of approached us through this third party to say, hey, would you be interested in having someone with Down syndrome come and work with you at the Happy Wombat so you can sort of get experience with it? And I was like shit, yeah. So I sort of said yes to that. And then Ben's been working with us ever since.
Speaker 4:He's been working with us for nearly the same age as Charlie, so like three months after Charlie, so nine and a quarter years nine and a half years he's worked for us now but like Gary has mentored us, like Gary and Winnie have mentored us on what to expect with children, like they were back in the time when they had been, and I hope Gary doesn't mind me mentioning this. But they were asked do you want to keep him after he's born? Like you know, you sent them off to Stockton to a facility. Yes, so that was back in that time.
Speaker 3:Oh wow, it's not that long ago.
Speaker 2:No it wasn't that long, 30-something years ago.
Speaker 4:Oh God, I hope. Yeah, gary doesn't mind me mentioning that, but I'm sure, I'm sure.
Speaker 3:Well, the fact that he didn't do it.
Speaker 4:It was a common, as you would imagine.
Speaker 3:Yeah, hell, no Rage, unreal.
Speaker 4:Yeah, but they've sort of given us they've got three siblings for Ben and we were like, okay, we'll have two. We were only intending to have two kids, yeah, and so we ended up having three kids to sort of have this like family network.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so he has a support structure.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so like we'll die eventually believe it or not With my lifestyle who knows when, and I'm like I don't want Ben to be like put into the system.
Speaker 3:Sorry, not Ben, Charlie to be put into the system.
Speaker 4:I want to be able to have. It's a lot of my motivation for business is to try and sort of set myself up so that I can have Charlie looked after forever, you know, personally, autonomously of the NDIS or anything else. Yes, yes, that's amazing.
Speaker 3:I take my hat off to you in that. I mean, that's phenomenal, it is.
Speaker 4:It's just life, you know, you just carry on. He's the most wonderful thing that's ever happened to me and it's changed our life eternally for better and it's such a good thing for both his brothers and for cousins and anyone that comes into contact with him. He's in this wonderful school, hamilton North, just mainstream school, and they are just always worried. You know, coming from a small country town, the way growing up, with the way people with disabilities were treated, I was rearing to go and I was like I'm going to go to jail for killing the parents of a child. That bullies you. You know this is what's going to happen and it's been the exact opposite experience.
Speaker 2:Especially in the north.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they have just been. All the parents, all the kids, all the teachers, all the support workers. Yeah, it's just been. It's made my whole outlook on life even better than what I've always been positive, but it's changed me entirely. It's so wonderful.
Speaker 3:So let's just say there's someone listening to this that maybe is experiencing what you have gone through, or maybe is about to experience that, or will experience that touch wood that we don't want that at all. What would your advice be to someone who maybe is in the same situation?
Speaker 4:Just do it Like so. I would never advise, well, first thing, never advise termination, because no, we don't ever advise that.
Speaker 4:No, no, but I would never like Each to their own Each to their own Do whatever you want, but I would just say Charlie's been the best thing that's ever happened to us. You know like, and I would. It makes it changes your entire outlook on life. What do you want to do with your kids? Are they little machines that are going to make? Are you going to send them off to tennis camp and make a million dollars off them? They're things that you love, you know, and you get.
Speaker 4:You just get so much love out of a child with a disability and so much. Something inside you grows. I know I'm carrying on but, like this empathetic part of you that you never knew.
Speaker 4:you had this. Like you know, meeting the other families, you bond with all these other people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's better for your other kids as well. Think about the soul as a vacuum of social media and shit that's going around these days. How hard it is to actually get some sort of character out of children. You know, when they're just exposed to all this bullshit in society and the world, they've got a job with a disability, they're going to be good kids. You know there's all this research that comes out that if you have a sibling or a family member, a cousin with a disability, how they're just the quality of the people around them, the empathetic natures that they exhibit, just by having that in your life, like it's just yeah, go for it, you won't regret it, it's difficult but it's amazing yeah yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 3:I mean so. For me, that's two key things. I mean the fact that you have been so successful in your business and yet had the struggles you've had in terms of the personal life behind that. It goes to show that when you kind of put life into perspective, like you just did, where you're saying what do you value most, when you can do that and then hold on to the things that you value most, you can get through anything. Yeah, that's right, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, what are you here for? Like, I try to live philosophically. The problem is a lot of the people that I line up with my sort of living philosophical ethos has killed themselves and I know that that's sad. But, like you know, I've seen a lot of like people that I line up with Anthony Bourdain and all these guys and I read what they're saying I'm like fuck, that's exactly how I think and they've ended up, you know, necking themselves.
Speaker 4:Sadly. I shouldn't laugh, but it does make me worried because I live very philosophically. I do not every business decision I make. Everything I do is about living like my life like this is it? Like it's so unlikely that I'm here, I'm so unlikely that I'm so lucky to be in the area that I am at in the world and in this country and to like I just want to maximise absolutely everything about the very little time I've got left on this planet and the business is a tool for that. Like I don't want to be trapped in a job where I'm getting told what to do by Jenny from Accounts, you know.
Speaker 2:I don't want that.
Speaker 4:I just don't think I could. I just don't think there's nothing wrong with people that have done that, that have taken that life choice, but I just could not do it. Yeah, it would kill my soul. Yeah, you know I need to be out here just meandering around and figuring out what to do.
Speaker 3:You value people, you don't value lifestyle, and that's awesome. Yeah, that's right. Who cares what?
Speaker 4:are we making? The whole economy, as I said earlier, is made up of garbage. You know we only need food and like, look at the amount of food products. We don't need all those food products. You know. Like, think about, like most of the economy is just keeping people running on a treadmill, running on their little hamster wheel until they die. That is all it is doing. It's not necessary. Most of it like. Look at the plastic things we've got here. They look lovely.
Speaker 4:They're fantastic, but there's a job right there, someone creating that product and running it and making sure that it gets exported. Look the freight companies that run everything around. Most of what we do doesn't make any difference whatsoever. And anyone that thinks that they're doing something more important or not, you're not. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 4:Like I've worked in, like serving coffees to people, like of all you know political persuasions and celebrities and whatever, and they're all just fucking dickheads. Just like me, you know, like everybody's. Just like I love something I really worry about and I don't want to get too carried on. But in Australia, like we've got these egalitarian ideals, you know, like where you just I love the fact that you can.
Speaker 4:Just, you know the bartenders do get paid a lot more than they do anywhere else in the world and so that you're sitting there and you can be serving someone that's like in a suit and you know that that person's able to go out and have schooners, just like you. They're able to go out and go on a holiday once a year, just like you working in what is traditionally, you know, not a real job. Yeah, like it's. I love the egalitarian nature of Australia and I think we're losing it a little bit. You know we're getting sucked into this bullshit that celebrities are. You know I use the example. Who would you value, like your favourite band not existing or not having your garbage picked up every week for the rest of your life?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I would much rather have my garbage picked up. That would be a massive pain in the ass. Yeah, true, I'm sorry, coldplay, you're getting disappeared, true? Yeah, I would just see a lot of Coldplay. Like, yeah, even though I really like, you know, sparks or whatever that song, I'd much rather have my garbage picked up. Yeah, it's true, and who's more respected Fucking Coldplay? Yeah, you know, like what the heck?
Speaker 3:What the heck? No offense Coldplay we love them, but I do agree with you. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Like there's this.
Speaker 4:You've got to get your head Back in the game. People Like people that go out there and work their asses off. I really hate in this country that a guy that comes out of school, works his ass off, gets his trade, works as a bricklayer, does 50 hours a week, works overtime on a Saturday. If his parents aren't rich, he's not buying a house in Bondi. That's bullshit.
Speaker 4:You get taught in this country and all your life that you should be able to work your ass off. If you work your ass off, put your head down, do everything that we tell you to do. Get your HSC, you know, or whatever they call it now, and you go out there and you work your ass off. You're going to get anything you want. But the truth is, these houses on the really nice areas they're often they're not because they've worked their arses off. They've had intergenerational wealth or they've invented a weird straw or something or a fidget spinner and they just nailed the market at the right time and sent out shit to the population. Or a straw cleaner, straw cleaner, something Straw cleaner, whatever.
Speaker 4:Like you know some sort of weird bullshit product. They haven't gone out there and slaved their ass. They've been clever and I don't think that I don't want to reward clever more than you know. Hard work, you know, that's what we sort of our. What are we?
Speaker 3:The half Gen X, half I was having this conversation with someone else.
Speaker 4:I'm 93, but there's this like bridge generation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's Gen X, Gen Z. We're halfway between. Yeah, Anyway, yeah but that's I.
Speaker 4:Really, I don't think that we've completely lost that idea. It's like be clever and you'll be rich, or just be born. Just be born and you'll be rich and you'll have like, yeah, you can borrow off your trust fund instead of borrowing off a bank and you'll get the leg up. It doesn't mean you're not working hard, but you just you get to have nicer stuff than the person that just. I just don't know what the solution is, but it's something that makes me rage.
Speaker 3:It just gets me going. Let's work on the solution and then we can come and have another podcast.
Speaker 4:Yeah, true, I'll just smoke a little weed and get stuck in.
Speaker 3:Anyway, luke, let's bring this into land now. This podcast has been amazing. I've loved it. It's probably one of my favorite ones. Actually, that's very sweet. You say that to all the guys. You have a really cool event coming up very soon.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, Newcastle Beer Fest. Yeah, Newcastle Beer Fest. I should be plugging a bit more.
Speaker 3:This is the 11th. I think you said it's the 10th.
Speaker 4:No, no so it's been like 11. We had two years off with COVID, yeah, and then this is now. So it's 11 years, but nine events.
Speaker 2:Nine events yeah.
Speaker 4:So we sort of didn't do it. Yeah, sucks a bit of the fun, like we should be celebrating. Yes, you know. So next year is technically the 10th event.
Speaker 3:So yeah, so Newcastle Beer Fest Give us a pun. Tell us what it's about. 8th of.
Speaker 4:March it's a beer trade show, so you go there to sample. You don't just go there and buy cans and just get smashed.
Speaker 3:But you know, there's A lot of designated drivers are on it.
Speaker 4:It's fun, so you go there. It's 11 till 6, deliberately, so we try to make it work really. So breweries, all these breweries, go there. They're all scrapping around a lot of them. It's been just as hard for them as it has been for the hospitality industry, absolutely.
Speaker 4:There's a lot that have gone into voluntary administration and liquidation since last year. So the emails bounce back okay, these guys don't exist anymore. So yeah, so they're in a tough industry. They come in there, they donate their time, basically they get basically break even through these tokens. We basically break even on the event. But it's there to promote independent craft beer as a category in this city. So you go there and there's just 35 different breweries. You've got like six or seven food people selling nice food and then you've got like all local artists with a big F off stage with awesome music. Right Like last year, we actually I think I spent a lot of money on getting this like amazing stereo and I amped it up with like a bit of Hard House and stuff leading in before the event.
Speaker 4:Oh, this is being in control of a ridiculously big you know those big ones that they set up for. Imagine just shoving your favourite shit on there, and we did, and it was awesome. But, yeah, no, the bands were great. So you rock up, it's 11 or 6, perfect time, saturday afternoon, king Edward Park. You, just you, can buy tickets online Newcastlebeerfestcom I think that's the website. Just Google it, google it, yeah, and then, generally, you can buy on the gate. You rock up, you get your cup, you get your tokens, you rip in, you dance, you roll out, you have a good time and unleash hell upon New.
Speaker 1:Puzzle Beer Fest. New Puzzle Beer Fest.
Speaker 4:We might have to go to that eh, oh you really, I'll sort you out with a discount.
Speaker 1:I remember one year you did a promo and you shot it on Instagram and you were on a bike.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think that was last year. I loved the year on the bike, was it last year? Yeah, I've got to do a psych up. I tried to do these Phil Gould styleational like get in here.
Speaker 1:You should go back and see him on this bike riding into the. Kingenwood Park. It was hilarious New Gods of Memphis, 8th of March.
Speaker 3:Anyone who's keen go?
Speaker 4:Get amongst it, you will have fun. Yeah, I think that'll be awesome.
Speaker 3:Guaranteed. Luke, thank you so much for being with us today. We really appreciate you sharing your story, giving us some insights into what it takes into obviously starting a business, and running a business. It's been very, very insightful and I hope someone can get something out of it. So thank you so much for joining us. Happy Wombat If you haven't been there. It's awesome. I love it, One of my favorite venues.
Speaker 1:Also the Yonge Street Hotel. The Yonge Street Hotel and Apple Truck.
Speaker 4:Cider. We didn't mention Apple. Truck, cider that's all right, we'll talk about it another day. We'll talk about it. The next time we get you on, we'll go and smash a few skewers, yeah.
Speaker 3:If you haven't got amongst it, Apple Cider is also great Apple Truck.
Speaker 4:Apple Truck Cider, you're bombing.
Speaker 3:Sorry, apple Truck Cider. It's great One of other Luke's projects that he much for joining us, luke. We really appreciate you and your time, no worries, and we wish you well with the newcastle beer fest and happy wombat and the young street hotel in carrington very, very cool venues. Go check them out. Um from us, obviously, mick, joining me today.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much for joining me it was a nice uh introduction, wasn't it?
Speaker 3:yeah, it was great, um, very, very cool. Uh, if you haven't checked us out in our socials by now, um, you obviously are new to this. You haven't listened to us before when?
Speaker 1:have you been?
Speaker 3:Where have you been? Yeah, leave a line on podcasts on all our socials Facebook, not Twitter. I was going to say Twitter. We don't tweet, we don't have enough time to tweet.
Speaker 1:It doesn't exist anymore, it's still a thing Do you?
Speaker 4:tweet or do you?
Speaker 1:X.
Speaker 3:What.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. Also, don't forget about our merch we're also working on some a winter collection. So the winter collection will be available, obviously for winter yeah but we were just working on it now, so get excited.
Speaker 3:Mick is, like very similar to Shev, where he speaks before he thinks. So we did have a bit of Shev here today, so that's great. Go check our website, leavealotonpodcastcomau. All the info is there. Otherwise, from Mick myself and Luke today. Thank you very much for joining us, leave a light on and stay safe.
Speaker 2:We love you. Hey, thanks for listening. We hope you managed to gain some insight from today's episode. Jump onto our socials and reach out, and until next time, wherever you are, let's leave a light on.