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#1 The Little Prince: A Journey Back to Innocence
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Have you ever wondered why "The Little Prince" continues to captivate readers of all ages around the world? Join us as we embark on a heartfelt exploration of Antoine de Saint-Exupéry's timeless classic, sharing personal anecdotes that highlight its universal appeal. Together, we'll reflect on the author's perceived guilt about growing up, the pilot's reflections on lost dreams, and the enduring wisdom imparted by the Little Prince himself.
Throughout our discussion, we delve into profound themes such as the balance between formal education and experiential learning, as well as the importance of maintaining childlike curiosity amidst adult responsibilities. By examining the metaphorical richness of characters like the king and the businessman, we uncover insights on human nature, materialism, and the value of reasonable expectations. We'll also discuss how the pressures of adulthood often cause us to forget our childhood dreams and the freedom to dream, as emphasized by the poignant quotes from the book.
In the latter part of our episode, we turn our attention to the emotional and symbolic elements of "The Little Prince," reflecting on the beauty of emotions, memories, and the value found in scarcity. We'll explore the significance of meaningful interactions and genuine connections, drawing parallels to our own lives and relationships. Whether you're a long-time admirer of the book or discovering it for the first time, our conversation invites you to rediscover the enduring lessons of "The Little Prince" and the magic of seeing the world through a child's eyes.
Watch the full episode here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvdVyXHGE1G3qqA9RzTlBOQ
Follow us on our socials!
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Tik Tok:
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Have you ever wondered why "The Little Prince" continues to captivate readers of all ages around the world? Join us as we embark on a heartfelt exploration of Antoine de Saint-Exupéry's timeless classic, sharing personal anecdotes that highlight its universal appeal. Together, we'll reflect on the author's perceived guilt about growing up, the pilot's reflections on lost dreams, and the enduring wisdom imparted by the Little Prince himself.
Throughout our discussion, we delve into profound themes such as the balance between formal education and experiential learning, as well as the importance of maintaining childlike curiosity amidst adult responsibilities. By examining the metaphorical richness of characters like the king and the businessman, we uncover insights on human nature, materialism, and the value of reasonable expectations. We'll also discuss how the pressures of adulthood often cause us to forget our childhood dreams and the freedom to dream, as emphasized by the poignant quotes from the book.
In the latter part of our episode, we turn our attention to the emotional and symbolic elements of "The Little Prince," reflecting on the beauty of emotions, memories, and the value found in scarcity. We'll explore the significance of meaningful interactions and genuine connections, drawing parallels to our own lives and relationships. Whether you're a long-time admirer of the book or discovering it for the first time, our conversation invites you to rediscover the enduring lessons of "The Little Prince" and the magic of seeing the world through a child's eyes.
I mean, the little prince is the kind of book that doesn't need an introduction. I feel like anyone that likes to read has read it, and that's anyone that hasn't read it should. There's so many pieces to it that we're probably not going to do it justice, but we can take a crack at it. We can try. We can try, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it's an interesting story how you, like I, was introduced to the Little Prince because of you, and it's weird because later I ended up finding out that my mom actually read this to me as a kid in Spanish, pero I didn't realize it. I don't remember at all, you know, but you're the one that introduced it to me.
Speaker 1:I I could be wrong, but it might figure in one of the most translated books in history, obviously really after the bible and some of those other major ones, but I think it's like in the top 10 oh originally it's a.
Speaker 1:It's french, it was written in french, but it's been translated a lot over the years. I wish we had that data here in front of us. But I think it's French. It was written in French, but it's been translated a lot over the years. I wish we had that data here in front of us, but I think it's one of the most translated books and, honestly, we can start a conversation just with the introduction or the dedication that the author gave.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I agree. I highlighted some points just at the introduction of this. Let me open up here my book here.
Speaker 1:You're welcome to start start it says dedication to an adult when he was a little boy, which is kind of encompasses one of the themes of the book of that growing up versus remaining a child theme right yeah everyone when you're young, including myself. We want to grow up, we want to make adult decisions, and then, when you grow up, you realize there was a trap we've been played.
Speaker 1:We've been in the author especially, you can still have this transforms, kind of like, into some form of guilt and the dedication he opens up with that, you know, like he says that he's dedicating it, but then he adds for forgiveness to all children for dedicating it to an adult. So then he changes it up and says when he was a little boy, do you think that this guilt that the author seemed to have or at least that I perceive he had about maybe growing up or maybe giving up on some of those childhood dreams, translates or transfers into the rest of the book, or do you think that was just kind of the beginning?
Speaker 2:I I think so. I mean again, just a little side note. We're not professionals in how we're breaking this book down, but I I think so because every person, from every planet, I feel like, could easily be like a persona that you try to achieve in life, or a sliver of who you are or who an adult is in life, all of them compiled as one. But it's broken down by planet and I just feel like this little, this little introduction that he has to the book, it just acknowledges that. I think that it does. I think he acknowledges that. I think this is his gift. Well, he mentions a gift to himself of forgiving himself. Maybe I grew up too fast, I was focused too much in growing up, but hopefully with this children's book I can educate further kids to maybe not take life so seriously, or I mean there's so many lessons to it, not just that topic. But that's what I think. What do you think?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I think the pilot in the book we're introduced to the pilot and the little prince in the beginning and the book doesn't kind of have this linear narrative Because then we find out that the little prince has been on this journey that's taken him to Earth kind of like as a last pit stop. But he's been in other planets exploring. A lot of them have been much smaller than Earth. And now he's here with this pilot that's stranded in the Sahara Desert trying to fix his machine.
Speaker 1:And then we encounter this. I mean, to me it seems kind of like the pilot having this form of maybe not vision but thinking back to his childhood, like the little prince, makes him meditate on maybe his first drawing, as he illustrates how he gave up on a career being an artist when he was told that his art wasn't good, but it was his first one.
Speaker 2:It was the first time he gave up, so he gave up so fast yeah.
Speaker 1:And the little prince, you know. He gives us one of his many short little quotes that I've enjoyed so much over the read and it's grownups never understand anything for themselves. They always need figures or data or information or extra stuff, whereas a child. Is that naiveness, is that like lack of experience? But they usually take things at face value. I feel like right, like if you tell them let's go play soccer. It's, let's go play soccer. They don't need all that extra information.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good point. I didn't think about it that way. I do think that he's trying to focus on how fast he gave up and how he allowed other people's influences to give up on a big dream that he had, just because of a bad opinion. But you're right, I think children just don't care, they're just like and I think that's what he's trying to teach like, if this, if you enjoy it, I think that's what matters. I think that's kind of like what I got from it, um, and also the imagination of it, because even if you look at the drawing yourself, you can can easily say like well, it doesn't look like what he's trying to describe, I guess, but it makes you. You have to imagine it, you have to have imagination.
Speaker 1:I think, unfortunately, as adults, you use your imagination less and less and less because we have entertainment, like almost other people are imagining for us, and I think that's the beauty of reading, because it forces you to use your imagination, because you can't visualize whatever you're reading, and where do you fall on this spectrum personally of you know this idea of remaining a child, for remaining having some childish qualities, or being and keeping alive your inner child, versus growing up, you know, becoming an adult, like because there's it's kind of a spectrum, right, you don't want to be a child if you're an adult, like that's not going to be good. But at the same time, if you give up all of those things, especially all those dreams, all those things you enjoy when you were little, and you become this kind of maybe narrow-minded adult that the little prince is kind of warning against, maybe that's bad too. Like what do you think?
Speaker 2:yeah, I think that's something I've struggled with, because I I feel like I don't know what, but for a long time, long time, I feel like a lot of people have tried to make me grow up. I'm not as serious. Maybe people around me that were applauded for being good people or whatever they compared to me and I wasn't nothing personality-wise like them. It made me feel this frustration. Like that looks boring, like why do I want to be that? But that person that people are applauding as being serious or mature is being applauded. So there's like this fight, internal fight, where you're like, well, why is this person being acknowledged? But I think it's boring or not fun, and maybe I can become that and maybe I'll get those applauds, but then I sacrifice my enjoyment and my happiness.
Speaker 2:So, like I think I've always had that battle of trying to be balanced, of like, well, you can't take everything, life is a joke, but also like don't take yourself that serious either, because I don't think you enjoy life as much or at least that's my opinion. I don't know those people who live that way. Maybe enjoy life a lot, but in my perspective I felt like taking yourself too serious holds you back, because I think if you take yourself too serious, it's almost someone else is controlling your decision. It's not you. It's because of what other people think about that action that's stopping you. It's because of what other people think about that action that's stopping you more than you decided that you don't want to do that thing, whatever that thing is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean in the book. One of the many stories we find is one of an astronomer. He discovers an asteroid. I forget the name of the asteroid it's a B395 or something like that, yeah, and when he discovers his asteroid, he gives a presentation. But he made the mistake or was it a mistake, I don't know of giving the presentation wearing a turkish costume. Did he remember that part?
Speaker 1:yeah, and in it, you know, no one took him seriously no one probably thought yeah, this guy's not smart enough but then years later, it seems like that astronomer gave that same presentation wearing an elegant, you know suit, probably more than likely and not everyone applauded his intelligence and that's kind of I feel like that's kind of what happens with children. You know like we keep applauding the growing up part. You know the smarter they are, the faster they become, and you know the little silliness of being a child doesn't get applauded, in fact it could sometimes get reprimanded or you get in trouble.
Speaker 1:Stop being a child or grow up come on, yeah, yeah we're here, sit down, pay attention, and those are more adult qualities the ability to just sit down in a place and pay attention to a talk or something like that.
Speaker 2:Is it?
Speaker 1:something that a child inherently has. But we kind of draw it away from them, just to kind of fit in society, society demands them to not jump on a table and dance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but at the same time time.
Speaker 1:It can never go back. It doesn't really.
Speaker 2:You'd never go back to being a child fully and I think that's the balance, that I think that this is the key right, like I think it's understanding a place, because, like, for example, that illustration of, like you know him wearing different clothing and how that changed the perspective of how the information was being received. I think that's correct. I think there's a time and place when to be serious and whatever, but I don't think that you shouldn't be wearing that mask all the time. You know is my point. I think there should be a time where you take the mask off and you're comfortable, whether that be with your family, close friends, whatever. But I think everyone should have the opportunity to take that mask off. But I think a lot of people feel like they can't. They feel like they'll be judged, they won't love me because they fall in love with that mask, so they don't take it off, but internally they're struggling with happiness because of it, because they have this mask on. That isn't truly them. It's something they are like, they can put on, but it's not them naturally and like when you brought out that, that story reminds me of the of the geographer a little bit of uh, how he he took.
Speaker 2:He is what he's one of the people in a planet, he has his own planet and he has his geographer that takes notes of a beautiful world that he lives in. But the little prince asks him you know where you've been? Have you gone here or there, this ocean or that mountain? And he's like oh, no, no, no, that's not my job, that's the explorer's job. And I resonated with the explorer than the geographer.
Speaker 2:But I do think a lot of people are the geographer. They feel like, based on whatever metric, whether it's financial metrics, societal metrics, of importance, of power, they feel like, well, you know, I don't know, a lawyer wouldn't be doing that, he wouldn't be playing in the rain, even though internally he wants to, maybe or whatever, a doctor wouldn't be making that type of joke or whatever. I feel like a lot of people hold themselves back because of these titles or the concept of what that title looks like, and I thought that that was a that. That planet, that planet is something that I resonated with, because I feel like like the lesson I got from is that that knowledge, with that experience, is it doesn't matter, it's incomplete, even if you have the knowledge, but if you don't get to explore those places you've learned, then is it? Have you really fulfilled, whatever role that is that's like, I think, one of my favorite planets.
Speaker 2:I think that I got the biggest lesson.
Speaker 1:The geographer, you know it's funny, you mentioned the explorer or the exploration, because this idea of exploration is another theme on the book, right, the little prince. If you think about the way he he learns or the way he tries to find out this information regarding the problem he's having, his home planet, this rose, that's kind of causing him some issues. So he goes and find the planet, trying to find the solution. He's exploring and that's the way he's learning, whereas you know, maybe day to day we've grown learning that the best way to learn is just, maybe reading, maybe just sitting down in a classroom listening to someone. What do you think the future like? Do you think the way that the little prince is learning kind of tells you, maybe of the best way that children or maybe we as adults can learn, which is by exploring, by maybe even traveling and seeing the lessons firsthand?
Speaker 2:I think so. I do think that this topic is probably a heavy debated topic because it's like the topic of college versus going to work right after high school, right? I think that's kind of the themality of what you're bringing up of, like, my opinion on it. I do think there are certain skill sets that, of course, like no, go to school. Like if you want to be an engineer, doctor, you need to go to school. Like you do, like there's no, you know there's nothing around it. You know, unless you're going to go kill somebody as a doctor in a third world country, like there's no, there's no way that you can go through it without hurting somebody. But I do think that if you don't know what to do, you don't know what you enjoy, or maybe you enjoy too much things, too many things, too many things of doing it Because you don't have the responsibility or the weight of either student loan, debt or the pressure of just having this paper that says that you're qualified for this and you feel like you can only do that. You put yourself in a box and you feel like if you go outside the box, you failed, like oh, it was for nothing. But that's not true. I don't agree with that either. I think that's an extreme. I think it's not a failure.
Speaker 2:I think any learning, any schooling, is good. I think you learn, it's good. I think that in my case I don't, you know in our cases our families don't have the financial resources to support someone going to school. We're going to be in student loan debt. So I think that for someone like in my shoes, personally, I think doing it, trying it out, is the best option, especially if you don't know what to do, because it's a heavy burden. But I think that the explorer learns faster because he fails faster. Learns faster because he fails faster. And I think that going to school postpones failure a little bit and then, once you do fail, that failure feels heavier, even though it's the same failure. It's because there's more time invested in whatever you learned that held you back. That's how I feel. I don't know how do you feel? Do you feel like there's a best way? I do think it's like case to case almost.
Speaker 1:Well, I personally feel like the way our education system works, some lessons take, like you mentioned, you know, this time to mastery or this time until you learn something, just gets prolonged. And you know, the more. If you discuss something and you talk about it, you might start getting this feeling that you know it, but then once you're actually doing it, you realize you know what I talked about. Maybe wasn't what I'm actually doing here, you know yeah and I could be like being a mechanic.
Speaker 1:Right, if you mechanic and you talk about parts of a car, you know how to do certain processes, of course it's going to provide you a lot of value.
Speaker 1:But if you actually just open up the car and try to do these things and figuring it out and kind of going on youtube, I know that you like to do that, you know I mean because I'm cheap and eventually maybe you don't know the names of all the parts and all these technical stuff, but you've practiced it and you know how to do it and yeah, I feel like the little prince. Well, I mean, that's another. Another question like who do you kind of relate to the most? The pilot that's lost there and kind of to me represents someone that had those childhood dreams and you know, if you can see the reason that the little prince kind of talks to him the most is because probably he had some childhood qualities and the pilot kind of is forced to admit maybe I'm a little too grown up, maybe I have become older as well.
Speaker 1:Because he's dealing with this problem of his plane not working, and he wants to focus on that. But then the little prince comes around. What do you think you are Like at this stage in your life? Have you been able to be more like that little prince, that kid that's exploring and trying to find the solutions to his issues and his problems in his life? Or do you feel like you're just the pilot stranded in a desert, you know, trying to fix your problem because you need to get away and go back to your life?
Speaker 2:I think that that's like the forever journey I think I've. I've jumped around from feeling from the little prince to to the pilot, to the rose. Sometimes you know that I selfishly wants all the attention or just love me, um, but I, I feel like I tend to be more like the little prince, like questioning everything, um, acknowledging after the fact when you're like you know I did, I did have it better than I thought. You know, like sometimes in our act, you know, in our reality, our current reality, we feel that that you know our situation is the worst or it's really hard, but then in retrospect you know it wasn't. I mean, it was hard. That doesn't take away from it, but there's some good in there.
Speaker 2:And I think that the little prince learns that throughout this journey of like valuing his planet, valuing his little rose, even though those lessons were really valuable, I do think that retrospectively there's a point that he regrets leaving his rose behind. And I think that the faster you learn that the better, because you don't want to be 60 regretting a big decision. I think it's if you could fail fast, like do it, you know, and I think that that's how I feel. I feel like I've done a lot to try to discover. You know, find my feet where I should go, which I what I should do, and my thing is like, just try everything, just just keep trying and something's going to stick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and what's you know kind of, what's unique about this book is. I mean, if you think about the, the, the narrative itself, it's not really applicable. It's not like a self book that you can read and you know if it talks about money, then you can apply that to your personal finances. Here we're talking about planets, we're talking about roses.
Speaker 2:That's why I love it.
Speaker 1:We're talking about things that are probably symbolisms for parts of our life, and things that we can probably understand and relate to, but the narrative doesn't do much. It's when you were able to extract these lessons and yeah, you know there's a quote that I've heard a couple years ago and it says from a drop, make a notion, you know, kind of like, from this little bit of information, make a lot more you know the lessons in the little prince.
Speaker 1:You have to kind of extract them, but once you do they can provide a lot of value. They did in the book to the little prince and his appreciation for the rose that he was trying to get back to.
Speaker 2:But they can also do for us right, like whatever we have and hold dear, maybe not take it for granted, realize that where the value actually lies I think that's the fun part of of like doing this right, because I think that I think that's the iron, not the irony I guess that's the wrong word but like the beauty of like this is a children's book, you know like this is like this shows that, like that quote you just said, like like you can take a lesson from anything. Really, if you, if you meditate hard enough, if you really think about it. Um, I do think that the author purposely, you know, you know did this. I think there's a lot of great lessons here. I don't think it was a fluke that he just wrote a book about this little prince and a pilot and there's all of a sudden all these lessons in it. I do think there is like this meticulous meditation to write this book.
Speaker 2:But it is like funny that it's meant for kids. You know, it's like a. It's a kid's book's, a french kid's book, and yet it's so profound if you really sit down and think about it. But if you just listen, if you just read it, I do think it's just a good book, like for a kid. It's a good book about imagination, about uh you know meeting different characters and learning these, these different things. It's really valuable, I mean.
Speaker 1:I like it because back in the day, when I liked reading far less than I do now, I looked for picture books. If it didn't have pictures it didn't make sense. I was not going to read it.
Speaker 2:I was not going to bother For me if it didn't come with a toy. Bro, I used to get the Spy Kids books because they always came with a laser or something.
Speaker 1:So, the illustrations really add to the book, and I think you can give different versions of the illustrations, but all of them would probably stay close to what the author wanted. So I don't know if you want to discuss something else, but I have a couple of quotes here that maybe yeah, I have some before we. We talk more about the symbolism of the, the different mans he encounters in the, in the planet yeah I mean, I have a couple too yeah, I got a couple.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think that I mean, if you want, do we, do we start linear, like the beginning, or do you just it doesn't matter, like wherever?
Speaker 2:it doesn't matter, you can do whatever we're talking about at the moment um, I think we we've already talked about it a little bit, but just to just to highlight it again. In the beginning of the book he highlights that all grownups were once children, but only few of them remember it. I think we touched about it a little bit, but that was impactful to me. I think that we tend to forget that we were once kids too, and nothing's wrong with that. I think nothing's wrong with being a kid, and I think we did kind of envelop that, that conversation a little bit. But I valued that, and right in the beginning it sets the tone for the book. Uh, like, how are you gonna, how are you gonna, consume this? Are you gonna consume it as a, as a child or as an adult, you know? And I feel like it puts you in a almost like a guilt thing, like, are you trying to be something? You're not type of thing, but I don't know.
Speaker 1:That's one quote I liked. I mean, that's a great quote and I like the fact that he mentions they don't remember or what was the exact quote they tend to forget.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all grownups are once once children, but only few of them remember it only few of them remember it, and it's kind of the truth, right?
Speaker 1:like everyone probably has some baby pictures, especially now, right?
Speaker 2:if you were, yeah, now whatever 30 or younger.
Speaker 1:You probably have some baby pictures of yourself, so you can recognize that at some point you're a baby. You were a child, but what of your dreams or your plans or what you enjoyed? Does much of that still relate to yourself? Like if you did what you used to do, or like if you talked about. The things that you used to talk about or what you know kind of took your time and your attention when you were young.
Speaker 1:That's kind of like what was in your heart in a way. Has that been forgotten over the years? Where, like maybe more serious things, as the little prince sometimes discusses, right like they? Were so preoccupied in the importance of what their, their tasks were like maybe being, you know, part of a family, part of a you know work career, you all these other responsibilities we can call it Maybe a child doesn't have.
Speaker 1:I think that's kind of like what makes you forget your childhood dreams or what you wanted, and I mean I think it's a sad thing yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's the joy of being a kid that you have the freedom to dream. I think that sometimes, as adults, you don't have the freedom to dream, or you feel like you don't. You know, because you have these responsibilities. Like you know, like you have a family, you have kids, like I can't just quit my job and become a professional clown, even though I love being a clown. You know you might feel like you can't, right, because you have all these responsibilities. Maybe as a kid you dreamed of this, but you had nothing preventing you to dream. And I think that's the reality, a lot of the cruel reality we face sometimes, that we feel like we can't dream because of our circumstance. But I think the overall theme of this book is trying to teach us that it's okay, like try to find ways to be a kid again, and almost like forgiving us for growing up. It's okay, I get it, you've grown up, but it's okay, you can go back a little bit, try to find little things, to be a kid again. I don't know, that's how I feel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, that's another question. Right when you look in the world today, sadly and this is sad fact but some people don't have, we could say, the luxury yeah of being a kid for long right as soon as they get, they gain this level of consciousness, probably like when they were toddlers or very young.
Speaker 1:The world has demanded their reality has demanded that they grow up very quickly. Yeah, so when you never actually experienced being a child, is it too late for you? Or when you're an adult, can you go back to a reality that you actually never were?
Speaker 2:you never were a kid I mean, that's a that's a hard question. I think that's that. I think that's deeper than.
Speaker 1:I know how to explain.
Speaker 2:But that's a sad reality, man. That breaks my heart a little bit. It does because you're right, there's kids who at age seven, they have to start working and helping the family somehow, depending on what country you're born in or your circumstance. And it was not their fault, they're just born in that circumstance. So it was not their fault, they were just born in that circumstance. So that is the sad thing and I do think that's the caveat that some people's realities, the things we're talking about, might not fit everybody, because everyone's circumstance is so different. So we can only speak about our circumstance. I do think that in our circumstance we can dream a little bit more, but I do think that if you're in that type of situation, yeah, I think that I hope they, they get moments of being a child, hopefully at least that's my hope.
Speaker 1:I mean, perhaps we're being we're being a little too, you know, negative about this situation because I also know adults. You know they go maybe the opposite right like where, let's say, you know they buy some toys or stuff like, oh yeah, there's a lot with legos, they buy all these sets and you ask them the reason, they might say, oh, when I was growing up I couldn't have them. So now they're kind of making up for that and and maybe they're they're able to maintain even more of the inner child than someone that did have the opportunity to kind of slowly and gradually grow up and become an adult. So maybe we're being too negative. Maybe those people that sadly have a rough childhood are a little ahead of us in terms of, you know, keeping that inner child alive that's true, because it's like this frustration of something you never got to enjoy.
Speaker 2:So you're like self-aware of something you missed. So maybe you make more of an effort to go back. And if someone had like a I guess normal childhood that grows up a little bit faster, in a normal pace, I guess might not have the desire or or forget to have the desire to be a child again. So I, I get what you're coming from. Yeah, I, I respect those people. I love legos. I was a play-doh kid myself. I was a play-doh kid, carlos. You give me lego vibes. Are you a lego kid?
Speaker 1:oh, my brother is, but actually I I don't play much with lego. It's probably because I have two dogs and they would probably end up with them eating them or doing something no, but as a kid.
Speaker 2:As a kid, I'm not saying no, I mean, I wish I played. Oh um growing up. I go.
Speaker 1:I enjoyed puzzles and legos kind of fit that description. So maybe I did play with legos, but they were a lot more expensive. So I think puzzles were more of my thing. Do you mean like jigsaw puzzles or what type of puzzles?
Speaker 2:Yeah, jigsaw puzzles, oh, okay, okay, okay yeah, I was just a destructive kid, I just wanted to squish things. So, hey, bring another quote. What other quote you got? I have a bunch. I mean, you're right, we can talk about this all day if we wanted to. I have literally like 20 quotes.
Speaker 1:I'll just kind of rush through this one because I think it kind of fits to what we're doing in this podcast and this idea or this quote said words drop by chance that little by little, everything was revealed to me and this is a quote said or spoken by the pilot, kind of describing his interaction, his first interaction with the little prince and how he came to understand him, because the little prince doesn't really make a formal introduction, doesn't say this is my name, this is where I'm coming from, this is what I want, this is what you want.
Speaker 1:It's just that little by little, it became apparent that he was out of this planet, he did not come from earth. He did understand some of those things and then, little by little, the pilot came to understand or it was revealed to him. And I think to me that speaks very positively of the pilot in this case, because he was very patient, you know, he he waited for the other party to, little by little, kind of reveal everything, and I think that's kind of the approach we're taking in this podcast. Right, we're by no means experts in any book, any topic we did not go to.
Speaker 1:You know eight years of literature, college or whatever you call it. We're just. You know we're readers, we like to enjoy a good book and we hope that whoever's listening does the same and, little by little, maybe it's real to us and maybe we become better at it. Maybe we yeah learn more about this authors and kind of the stories they bring to life yeah, and I think that's the.
Speaker 2:I think any author would want this right, because I think it shows the you're, you're consuming something more like deeper than just service level reading, and I think that's what they would want. They'd want this. So I I think it's a homage, homage, homage I don't know how you pronounce it to to the readers, uh, the readers and authors, correct?
Speaker 1:yeah, I mean one of the, the main, I guess we could say positive influences I had when it comes to reading. As far as academic reading goes, it was in high school. A teacher mentioned, you know, like he he instructed or told his students I don't really care about the narrative, like you can get the narrative from spark notes, like the narrative is just what happened in the book. I care about what you think happened like once you read it. He mentioned you own it. Now this is what you, this is what you make of it and kind of like. And of course there's limitations to that, you know yeah, if you said the sky was blue.
Speaker 1:You cannot make it red, but you can probably describe why he made the sky blue yeah the symbolism behind that is and and I think that kind of gave me the freedom of you know, I'm not wrong, it's not like math where like four plus four is eight and you cannot really change that, although some people may argue that too nowadays. But with reading is you read it, you own it, your experience in life and what you, the way you see the world, is immediately mixed into that version of reality. You see, and kind of what you think, and maybe that's why readers I probably shouldn't say that I'm a reader, because I'm not close to being that. Yet Readers don't enjoy movies, right, because movies kind of rob them of that ability to kind of imagine that world and see it the way they want to see it.
Speaker 2:Because now you're seeing someone else's vision for that yeah, I, I do think there's a I get the same thing, a balance to it. I need to like. I think readers will always hate on the movie version, but they're still happy that someone made I mean to at least. For example, I can only speak about my sister. My sister loves to read books, loves like she, she, she, for me, is a reader man. She has cabinets of books um, that's where she spends her checks, literally she's an avid reader and that's my goal. My goal is to keep, our goal is to keep reading. But she always tells me, like she she usually hates on any movie that the book was made. But there's this satisfaction Someone cared enough of this book, like I did, and tried to make a movie out of it. I think that in itself there's some satisfaction, that acknowledgement that this was a good book, a good story, so good that I wish I'm going to invest some money to try to create a movie out of it. But I do think majority of people that read books and they hate on the movie because, because you can only give so much information in two hours compared to a whole book. You know exactly. Yeah, I have a.
Speaker 2:I have another quote for you and I have a question for you too. Let's go Okay. Okay, and this is. I think the fox said this, if I remember correctly. And now here's my secret, a very simple secret it is only with the heart that one can see rightly. What is essential is invisible to the eye. And my question is what do you think the author meant by seeing rightly with the heart?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think if I were to summarize the lessons or kind of the main takeaway for this book, it really circles back to the Little Prince and the fox, the interaction they had. You know like in all his exploring he came to different people that maybe told him you know what he didn't want to become, what he doesn't want to be, and he kind of in a way felt sorry for most of them.
Speaker 1:But the fox is interesting because he maybe didn't think much of him. Maybe in most movies or in most books the fox is not really the main character or the good character. Maybe it's even a bad character yeah but he gifted him the best lesson.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I agree, you know that quote kind of is the main lesson of the book to me. You know, only with the heart you can see, rightly, and it's kind of maybe the, the weakness we as humans possess, that where we usually try to perceive reality by what we can see, and sometimes the biggest things or the most important things especially, are invisible, like you can't really make a good representation of a person by what you see. You know, like it's understanding them and kind of the Fox gives him more than one lesson.
Speaker 2:Like in that interaction.
Speaker 1:You know he gives lessons on friendships and on what's valuable in a friendship, and he talks about certain rights where, like, if you want to be my friend, don't really come close to me.
Speaker 1:He says another thing that I really loved. He says words are the source of misunderstanding. Basically, don't talk too much, just kind of stay nearby, kind of interact, and then eventually that friendship will kind of arise naturally, whereas when you try to force it, maybe you know you end up with bad friendships or not the best ones. No-transcript see with the eyes and me included that there's. There's a story, I recall, uh, where a king was to be chosen, and I think this story is in the bible. It's in first, first of samuel, and when the king is being chosen the children of, of, of certain men are and the one choosing.
Speaker 1:The king believes that maybe the tall one or maybe the strong one will be and it's not that, you know, he's seeing with his eyes, but he should not see that way. You know the heart is what mattered and the king was chosen based on what was inside the heart. But we as humans can't really do that and we attempt to, we want to, but sometimes it humans can't really do that and we attempt to, we want to, but sometimes it's kind of invisible.
Speaker 2:It's invisible to the eye and I think the solution to that though this is my solution to that is also the Fox teaches him is that what makes it valuable is time, right, being taming. He talks about the word tame like you haven't tamed me, I haven't tamed you and the word tame like you haven't tamed me, I haven't tamed you and the word tame alludes to this investment of time, um. So I think the way we can see see more than the face value of something is investing time, um, because only then will we be able to see deeper than what we're seeing at face value. And like on that, on that note, like I loved some, like, uh, like I don't know, they were just very like, romanticized, like how you, how you describe this. He, he said um, let me read it here but if you tame me, my life will be filled with sunshine. I'll know the sound of footsteps that will be different from all the rest. Other footsteps send me back underground. Yours will call me out of my burrow like music.
Speaker 2:And then, look, you see the wheat fields over there. I don't eat bread. For me, wheat is of no use whatever. What use whatever? Wheat fields say nothing to me, which is sad. But you have hair the color of gold, so it will be wonderful once you've tamed me. Me, which is sad, but you have hair the color of gold, so it will be wonderful once you've tamed me. The wheat, which is golden, will remind me of you. I just found that that's so beautiful. You know the way he was saying that things that right now mean nothing to me because of our relationship Now things will have more value and bring more happiness to me. How do you relate that in your day-to-day life? I mean, especially you know in our cases that we're married. I think we can relate to his experience here with the Fox.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think at this point in the story the little prince is maybe upset, maybe sad. At this point in the story the little prince is maybe upset, maybe sad. If you remember, he came to this journey to find a way to maybe solve his problem with a rose, a rose that he learned to love even though she was very vain we can discuss the rose a little more but he believed that she was unique, unique that she was the only rose in the entire universe and that, in his eyes, that's what made her valuable, which we as humans.
Speaker 1:Kids, everyone kind of values uniqueness, right like we think about the most expensive cars in the world we might mention. Oh, there's only four of them in the world and that's impressive and we love that idea for some reason that it's hard to obtain. But on earth, the little prince comes to discover that there's not just one rose, there's multiple. There's, I think, rose bushes. Yeah, and his impression upon meeting the rose bushes is that he starts crying because now his rose is less valuable in his own eyes.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He starts to think oh, what I have is not special. There's multiple roses, but the fox reminds him, and it kind of maybe reminds every husband or every person that values someone or something. The value doesn't really come from something being the unique or the only thing in the world, or maybe even that you know the value doesn't come from that only thing in the world, or maybe even that you know the value doesn't come from that, but its uniqueness and its value comes from the relationship and maybe even the time and you know all those good things that happen once you interact with someone fall in love for a long period of time and that's what makes something special, right, all those roses according.
Speaker 1:As he comes to realize we're strangers. They were very different from his rose, the one that he knew and he had, as the fox said, tamed the one that had tamed him, or he had tamed it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, and I agree. I think that that's what brings the value. And I just love, even meditating myself when I was reading this, like feeling like that fox, like describe those things. Like I started thinking, like my relationship with my wife and I was like, okay, what things you know? Before didn't really. I mean I valued, but it didn't really mean much.
Speaker 2:You know, and like, for example, like my wife when we started dating, she loves pizza, like loves it. I mean it was hilarious to me how much she loved pizza. Like date night, just pizza was enough and she'd be so happy. But for me, like I've ate pizza all my life and it's good. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to hate on pizza. It's just pizza though. It's just bread, some sauce and some pepperoni, you know, like I'm not trying to hate on it, but like it's not that big deal.
Speaker 2:But once I see dominoes or anything, I think of my wife because of how much she loves pizza and that's something that before, that feeling of just driving around and seeing these things, these interactions, it meant nothing to me. But now, because there's this value system, I care about somebody who cares about this thing, it makes me about it, but it, but it also brings me joy, like thinking about it. So it made me really resonate with the fox of like and meditating a little bit, like what are things that I value more? Now that I have someone? You know that, and it can be like little things and you're like man, that's true like before I didn't care about that and now, like you know, a certain smell, a certain chocolate bar all of a sudden has more value because you care about something. I think that that's something beautiful that he's trying to teach here to the little prince and that's what made his rose valuable, even though she was vain, and we can even talk about that a little bit. What's your opinion?
Speaker 1:about the rose, the rose, the beautiful rose that made the little prince take such a wild trip. I think you know the vanity that the rose seemed to possess because obviously she was beautiful. At least in the eyes of the little prince she was the most beautiful thing he has ever seen. But he said something interesting. You know, when he starts kind of maybe complimenting her, he starts to realize that those compliments don't really mean much to her because she already has such a high value for herself yeah the rose already thinks like it was born the same day that the sun was born and it's like has this cosmic beginning and elegance.
Speaker 1:It's just unique. But if you, if you say like, if you read with the little prince mentions, like, even though he admired her beauty, he says she began very quickly to torment him with her vanity, and that's kind of the when you talk about, like this battle of being a grown up for a child, like it's a spectrum, right, whether you want to remain a child or grow up, it's the same thing with beauty, right. Like this beauty that the rose held or had was great. Like the prince loved her, he thought she was beautiful but her vanity in a way made her kind of like less to me. Yeah, like in a point where, like he didn't know how to deal with it, he had to fly away, he had to like go look for an answer somewhere else he just couldn't deal with her beauty or her vanity more than anything I think the struggle also was that he felt like he was investing so much to her but she didn't appreciate it.
Speaker 2:But there is this like touching moment, I guess, when he's about to leave her, that she acknowledges, or the rose I'm not sure if it's a she right the rose acknowledges that she loves the little prince. And he was shocked. He was like you mistreat me, like what do you mean? He was so confused.
Speaker 1:Like what do you mean? You know he was so confused, and I mean roses as kind of in the beginning of the book mentions too have thorns right and they are to protect themselves.
Speaker 1:As Rose mentions to the little prince, in a wild exaggeration, she can even defend herself from lions with these thorns. Yep, and to me, kind of vanity is another version of that. Thorn right when you're so vain and you kind of. Is another version of that thorn right where you're so vain and you kind of, in a way maybe you repulse people. It's kind of a way to protect yourself from, you know, being hurt, people that approach you and end up hurting you, or like tigers you know, you develop this thorn, without even maybe realizing that that's what they are.
Speaker 1:And I think the little prince learns a lot about what the rose actually meant or what she actually was like, from the one of the first planet he he visits. If you remember this journey that he went on, one of the first planets he visits is inhabited by a vain man, a man that just wants to be admired, and this makes no sense to the little prince, because he wants him to clap for him, he wants him to say how amazing he is, but the little prince tells him you know, you're the only one here, no one else is admiring you, you're all alone. But still he wanted that and I think that's kind of the way he does. It is kind of a masterful way of highlighting when someone's primary, you know, moving force is a certain quality In terms of someone that's Bane or that has that quality of being Bane. They isolate themselves, they live in this little planet and they do want to be admired.
Speaker 1:And if you don't admire them, then you get out of the planet Like you don't belong there. But in a way way does that make them actually important? Does that make them lonely?
Speaker 2:they end up alone bro, you blew my mind. You blew my mind. I honestly didn't think of it at all that way, like that, just blew my mind because, man, wow, that's, that's right. I agree, like like, uh, it's almost a it's, it's a protection, but that that lack of vulnerability and maybe admitting things that aren't perfect, that lack of vulnerability now makes them lonely, you know, and and it pushes everybody away, and the only people that are accepted are people that applaud them, even though they might not deserve it. You know, like they might not even deserve the applause, but because they're so lonely, that's the only thing that's valuable to them, I guess. Is that validation from others, bro? It blew my mind.
Speaker 1:It seems like this topic really resonated with you. Do you consider yourself a Bane man? Maybe, that's what's happening here. Maybe I'm super vain.
Speaker 2:Oh, I think that the last thing he was trying to point to towards is that also, that that doesn't lead to true happiness. You know, even if you had all the applauds, you know it's not true happiness because maybe the people that applaud you don't even like you. They want something else from you. They don't like you for you. That makes any sense.
Speaker 2:I think that if someone knows what is the key for your friendship, if someone knows that I'm talking about a bad person, I'm not saying in general, but if there's a bad person that knows the key to your friendship and let's say you're a rich man If he knows, all you got to do is applaud them, tell them what they want to hear eventually they'll give me their earnings or a car or something Then you're getting false friends, because the only thing that's valuable to you is one thing that someone can just give you, even though it's not real, and I think that's the fear of trying to find friends, and I think that's the.
Speaker 2:The whole theme as well with the little prince is, when he first meets the fox, he tells him that he's just trying to find friends. Like that's one of the reasons he's he's been searching, he's trying to understand his rose and then find friends, because he almost didn't want to stop and talk to the fox because he was like oh, I can't waste my time with you, I'm trying to find friends. Um, yeah, and I think that that that adds to this theme of like. If you like, if you're trying to find a true friend, and that's the only thing that matters to you, then you're not going to find it. You're not going to find true friends.
Speaker 1:I mean in the case of the vain man. He quickly draws the little prince away Like he has nothing in common with him. He ends up going to another planet. Well, actually we skipped a planet. I don't know if you want to go back to the time he met the king. Yeah, the king that gives orders and seal requests.
Speaker 2:He was a funny guy, though. What was your take on him? Well, I thought it was he had some bars, though my boy had some bars. He said Let me see if I can find the exact quote because I didn't write it down on my notes, but I remember when I was going over my notes or the book more, so let, when I was going over my notes or the book more, so let me see. Here he says actually I might have it right. Here he just talks about how, uh, I mean I'm just gonna, I'm roughly gonna say it because he just, um, he, he kept insisting on giving reasonable orders to maintain the illusion of power, but he did drop some knowledge for a leader because he said something like I can't ask someone to do something that I don't believe they can do.
Speaker 1:I think the quote you're looking for. I'll just read it for you, because I really liked it too and I highlighted it is one must require from each one the duty which each one can perform.
Speaker 2:There you go. That's it. Yeah, that was a bar. My boy was dropping some knowledge right there.
Speaker 1:Another one that I liked in that same interaction, but maybe I can mention that after you finish your comment.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, I was just going to just highlight how, like that illusion of power which is kind of funny to me was that he, he tried to maintain the illusion by having, uh, he, but by making things up he would say like, oh, I'm the master of this whole area, this whole universe, or whatever he was saying, like he was bigger, he was the king of everything. And then the little prince is like, but there's no one there. He's like, he's like, but, but he just tried to maintain this illusion of it. It's just funny to me. I think that maybe, as humans, we can fall into that too. You know, like, um, what's our illusion of of power?
Speaker 1:you know, like so what do you think the king can represent in our case? Because obviously we're most of us and most of the listeners will not be kings one day and cannot, you know, imitate or go against what this king stood for. But in what areas of our life can we avoid some of the silliness? Because when you think about some of the comments the king made when he ordered the little prince to yawn or not to yawn, and the little prince said I can't do that, like, I can't control a yawn, I have to yawn. And then the king goes back and says, well, I order you not to yawn now then, or to yawn, and they said, well, I can't control that either. Like it just happens. Then the king re, you know, addresses the issue and says, well, I order you to yawn sometimes and to not yawn some other times, and the little prince is like, I guess I'll do that like, and to me, kind of like that speaks me on a personal level, is our kind of desire to control things that we cannot control.
Speaker 1:this king wanted to feel like his authority was respected and he controlled every single being in his planet, all the men and we might not expect that from our friends or our family, but we might expect that from ourselves, maybe, like when we want to have this predictive predictability of the outcome or what happens in our life, but doing that seems silly to the little prince because it's impossible. Like you can't really do that yeah we can't really do that ourselves either, like, no matter if we have power, authority, we can't do it. You know we.
Speaker 1:We have to be, as he said, reasonable in our expectations and our, maybe demands, or what we think of people, what we ask of them yeah, I think that's like what you're speaking of talks about, maybe your internal anxiety.
Speaker 2:I think that's the like trying to over plan. Maybe you know like, oh, if I do this and I'll do that, and then like in three years and then this, but you can't control the future. You know like, oh, if I do this and I'll do that, and then like in three years and then this, but you can't control the future. You know you can only do so much. And if you, if you try to over uh again, like you're saying, like over try to have like a sense of control, it's almost like a waste of time to a certain extent. Up to a point, right, proper planning is always good, but that overdoing it of trying to have this power, or the futility of having this absolute control instead of just acknowledging your place, I guess so, that's how I saw the king.
Speaker 1:You know, this takes me to another thing that I wanted to highlight and if anyone does like a quick little search on maybe YouTube or on Google, for the Little Prince and the narrative or the symbolism, it's going to tell you. I think I got this from Google directly. It said well, not Google directly, but maybe SparkNotes. It said loneliness, friendship, love and loss, those are the main themes of the book.
Speaker 1:The Little Prince makes observations about life, adults and human nature, and one of those biggest observations to me, besides the one that we already discussed about the heart and what's invisible to the eye, happens actually in this point of the book where he's with the king to the eye is happens actually in this point of the book where he's with the, with the king, and he says it is much more difficult to judge oneself than to judge others. The little prince makes this kind of statement after visiting the king's planet, and that's, I mean, that's a universal truth. We can see that here, everywhere. Why do you think that is? Why do you think it's much more difficult to judge oneself than to judge others?
Speaker 2:because to judge oneself is to accept, maybe, things that you don't like about yourself, you know. So I I think we all hope to be good. People have good qualities. To judge yourself is to accept faults, and I think that's a difficult reality to do. And it's easier to judge others because it makes you yourself feel better for your faults. You're like, well, they do this wrong and that wrong. So it makes you yourself feel better. Like for your faults you're like, well, all they do this wrong and that wrong. So it makes it makes me feel better, instead of like not focusing on anyone else and just like focus on you. What do you got to work on and then doing it. I think that sense of accountability is hard when no one else, when no one else is expecting you to be better. You know if it's just you, what's your motivation.
Speaker 1:I think if I could add something to this quote, I think it's more difficult to judge oneself correctly.
Speaker 1:There you go Than others right, because when we judge us we can kind of go to an extreme where we kind of criticize so much because we know everything right. We seem to believe that we know everything about ourselves and whereas with others we just see like a little glimpse of reality, maybe the day. You see them during the day, or the actions, the words or what they did. But with ourselves we see everything that led to it. We can see kind of our intentions or hopes. If we fall short, we might even be able to tell oh, we fell short, but like we really wanted this.
Speaker 1:We missed the bar, but our intention was higher, whereas with others, we just see what they achieved. We see the actions or the words. There's no background, there's no story if someone you know is having a rough day and they do something rude on the road when we're driving we don't really get to see the day we don't get to see what led to that decision or that point in time with ourselves, we can right.
Speaker 1:So when we lash out, when we do something we shouldn't we get to explain it to ourselves and say, well, look at the day you had you know like yeah, that's why you weren't yeah, and I think that goes back to maybe even a contrast or like a counter argument to this idea that it only with the heart that you can see, rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye, because we judge others based on what we see. Like, yeah, what we see with the eyes and with us. It would take more like self-reflection, knowing ourselves, kind of being able to determine our heart or what's in our heart, and making that judgment and making it correctly right, because if you're feeling sad and you're making this overly critical judgment of yourself like that, that wouldn't be the the goal either. Like you want to be balanced yeah and that like that.
Speaker 2:I think the having accountability is like something that I think as people, we don't like. What is to be expected? Like if you don't have your own set of standards or goals or anything, if you're just going where the wind blows, you like what is there to judge? You know like you have no set standard to judge, you know. So I think that that's like the internal struggle I think people face is, um, like how you saying like either they're too judgmental where they don't, they can't applaud even the good things that you do. You're just like, oh, you're the worst, you're the worst human being ever. Like you go to that extreme. Or like I'm the best and everyone else is wrong. You know else is wrong. You know like just having a balanced view of yourself is is difficult, because I think normally you you judge yourself really harsh, but or the opposite, you just give yourself too much room to make mistakes instead of like, no, I should have been better and I could do this, that, this differently. But if we never sit down and meditate on what we can improve on, then how will you improve on it? You'll just keep being reactionary instead of a thought provoked action, if that makes any sense. Hopefully that makes sense.
Speaker 2:I wanted to talk about I mean, it's kind of like a sad. It's a short planet, but I do think it's something that people fall on, unfortunately and it was the drunkard planet. It was super short. It was literally like I don't know eight lines, seven lines of a of a interaction with the drunkard and it's basically a drunk man and the little prince basically tells him like why are you drinking? And then he basically tells him he's drinking because he hates that he's drinking. Something like that. Like this cycle he's in and again like again. Just a little side note, alcoholism is such a serious issue. I'm not trying to talk about that right now. I'm just talking about how we maybe find ways to excuse bad behavior by doing bad behavior and not bad I guess that's the wrong word Maybe things you want to improve on, but you keep doing the cycle. Like I'm trying to think of a situation Like, let's say, I want to be better with my time, but the time you do have you use social media. And again I'm trying to think of a situation Like, let's say, I want to be better with my time, but the time you do have you use social media, and again I'm putting myself in these shoes, right, I'm trying to judge myself here. You're saying I want to be better with my time, but then you fill that extra time with using my phone, and then you feel bad afterwards because you're like dang it, I wasted all that time. But then the next day you have a new opportunity and then you just do the same cycle over and over again.
Speaker 2:And I think that's kind of like the lesson that was being taught here that that cycle of shame produced those feelings. Those feelings of shame made him want to escape his reality. So, to escape his reality, so to escape his reality, he drank again. And that's like almost you can apply it to anything. Like if you want to work out, you're like, oh, I need to be better. I got to go to the gym, but you look at yourself in the mirror and then you hate what you're seeing. That shame might push you to eat more, you know. And then you're just like this cycle of trying to escape that reality. It's just super sad. I just felt like it was such a short stint, but I thought it was so true to like what kind of happens, especially nowadays.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean he really did speak a lot with few words on this. Vicious cycles that you're talking about, right, Because being drunk could be an example. I mean, sadly, there's a lot of those, and drug addiction could be another.
Speaker 1:And you know when you kind of break up the words that the little prince exchanged with the drunkard, you know the few words that the drunkard spoke was you know I drink. And then he asked why do you drink? And he said I drink to forget, forget. And what are you trying to forget? That I drink so?
Speaker 1:it was kind of silly to the little prince that he was doing these things in a cycle and maybe you know it kind of speaks volumes to humans because we do that as well and I think you gave some examples. Right like working out and all these other things, you know, I think being lazy is one. Right like we feel like we're not successful, like we wanted to achieve all these things and we're depressed that we didn't get the degree we wanted, or you know get the job we wanted and instead of working more on it, we're just depressed.
Speaker 1:We're kind of stuck in that cycle and what you're just reinforcing is that idea. Like that, you're probably never going to get it.
Speaker 2:But why do?
Speaker 1:we? Why are humans, as the little prince probably like alluded to, kind of stuck in the past? Because, I mean it was from our point of view the drunkard could have fixed that right. Like he stops drinking today, then tomorrow he changes, he doesn't feel that guilt and he can do something else instead of drinking because he feels he feels ashamed or guilty. Why, I mean, if he can't do it because we humans can't do it, why do we seem to find comfort in bad things like what do you think? Or that says about human nature?
Speaker 2:I think that I mean, it's just because it's whatever is frictionless that you'll do more of right, like what takes the most energy to do. And we again, now more than ever, we have the availability to do the frictionless option. It's so easy to do nothing. It's so easy. It's just like the saying of what's the saying? It's like you have two paths and the most of the people take the easiest path because it's the last, this difficult one.
Speaker 2:So I think, as humans, we just lack self-control and discipline, like naturally. I think naturally we just I guess that word's kind of complicated to even say what's natural but but I just think that the tendency is to create good habits. You have to break bad habits, but again, to do that, just like the drunkard, you have to acknowledge the problem and then do something different, which is change the habit. And I think that's the issue we as humans face is that we've, we've, we're fighting habits we've built for years. You know there's, there's habits that you know if you've never exercised ever, how do you expect to all of a sudden go five times a week? You know like you might do it for two weeks but you'll burn out because you'll never done it before. Um, so I think it's. It's fighting or breaking those bad habits and then acknowledging that they exist. Yeah, that's how I I feel, I think what about the? I want to, I want to know what you, how, you related to the businessman, the business yeah, he was a.
Speaker 2:I think he. He was just like a personification of materialism a little bit. That's kind of how I took it. But but how did you view the businessman?
Speaker 1:you know to me when I when I first read this book and I'm trying to translate back to that point in high school, I read this book pretty late, unlike you. That you know you were I don't remember they read. They read it to you when you were younger. To me, like the difference between the king and the businessman was not as clear as the little prince or as the businessman made it right like kings reign over and businessmen own oh yeah they were so busy owning, like he was just counting and counting millions of little objects.
Speaker 1:In this case we come to find out they're stars and this businessman believes that he owns the stars. They belong to me and he says one of the quotes that I highlighted here. They belong to me because I was the first person to think of it and this idea of people feeling ownership over what they think of it, and this idea of, like people feeling ownership over what they think of it's kind of a newer idea, right, like it goes back to the idea of owning land or not owning land, and that would get messy, so we're not going to discuss it. But you know, the businessman was so caught up on this that he was missing life, and I think you're right. It probably does exemplify or symbolize materialism. But to the little prince it was silly like. It just made no sense, right. Like he, he couldn't relate to him, so he continued the journey. Most kids would probably agree with that, right, like if they had a glimpse of an idea of someone that has a business or works in the stock market. It would make no sense, right.
Speaker 1:but to an adult it's not silly to an adult we understand that we could even admire, like I think you got to go back to the beginning of the book as well, where he's saying how when someone describes a house, they don't talk about important things they don't't talk about. Oh, it's beautiful, it has this color. It's this and that Most people don't understand. They don't visualize anything like that, but once you tell them, oh, it's a million dollar home.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's a beautiful house, yeah, yeah, they don't even need a picture, they just have this idea that, because of the value, now it must be, yeah, yeah, it must be. Pretty well, this, this businessman how the little prince ism is silly, like it's kind of maybe motivates me or reminds me to see other things as a form of value, instead of money, instead of yeah a number yeah, which you know, at the end of the day is not important, right, like this businessman was so caught up in something so stupid like owning the stars.
Speaker 1:He didn't own the stars, but he thought he did. Yeah same thing like with humans, like if you accumulate wealth and you have this enormous amount of money, is it really? Does it really contribute to the day you look, your day to day life more than maybe having a healthier life or taking care of your family and living more relaxed. Wouldn't that? Shouldn't that have more value to us?
Speaker 1:yeah, kind of meditate on that. You can kind of take those reflections back to your own personal experience and kind of see make changes, or maybe just kind of see if you think you're being as silly as that businessman counting the stars yeah, I think it was trying to point for me.
Speaker 2:It pointed out like what's my value system? Um, like it made me ponder that, because he did acknowledge, because he says at the end of this you know interaction? He says so it's. He starts talking about what things he owns. Right, and he doesn't own a lot. But the little prince says in his little planet we didn't really describe it but he has his flower which he waters every day, but he also owns three volcanoes which I rake out every week. I even rake out the extinct one, because you never know. But this is what he says. He says so it's of some use to my volcanoes and it's useful to my flower that I own them, but you're not useful to the stars.
Speaker 2:And I thought that was like what's your value system? Like things aren't bad, like you can own things, like nothing's wrong with that. I think it's like why are you owning them? I guess is the question Like do you bring value? Does it bring true value to yourself? And almost like do you, do you put value to the thing you're purchasing or having or getting? And I think that's like the, the question like having a lot doesn't really define, or it's not a good metric for a good value system. But it was a. It was a cool interaction. When I first read it though the second time I don't know why I was like like I felt like I understood the lesson but I almost like, weirdly enough, understood the business man. But then I'm like but this time, reading it, it just shows to me maybe like a little bit of growth or maybe where my goals were at that time. Uh, because now I do see it much differently than I did when I first read it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean all of these, even though, like we said, the beauty of this book, even though it's a children's book, when you read it as an adult and when you experience life a little bit and you reread it, you can kind of see yourself in those decisions. You know, am I being silly like these, like the drunk man, the bane man or the businessman which takes us to the next guy? I think we discussed most of them, except the lamp lighter which, on a surface level, might seem like maybe the stupidest one of them.
Speaker 1:All right like he's the one that's just there in the planet, lighting the lamp at certain times and not lighting it. You know making it dark at others. But surprisingly he's the only one that the little prince sort of admired or felt this form of connection with. What do you think that is Like? What do you think? And he mentioned the reason. But I think you know I want to take your kind of hear. Your take on it first.
Speaker 2:I think, because he, I think he respected him, because the way he viewed this assignment, this order he describes it as an order or the lamplighter describes as an order is that he had this sense of duty and almost like devotion to this purpose. And maybe the little prince resonated with him because in his planet he had a sense of purpose. He had to take care of the flower, he had his volcanoes to take care of. Every day, he enjoyed the sunset at the end of the day, every single day, he had this habitual tasks that he had to do, like the sense of purpose, and I think the lamplighter showed that he was faithful to that purpose. Even though it was, he tried to provide a solution because he was exhausted of just doing the thing every single day. What about you?
Speaker 1:I think you mentioned one of the quotes that I wanted to discuss where he says there is nothing to understand, said the light blighter orders are orders. What do you, what do you feel about something like that? Would you be able to do something without understanding it? You know that, and that's kind of the struggle between an adult and a child, because a child can do things without understanding them. Clearly, I mean, the world is new to them. A lot of things they don't understand. Maybe their parents ask something of them like stay by my side when we cross the street. Maybe they don't know the implications.
Speaker 1:Maybe they don't know, they don't know how much safety that simple order provides to them yeah, they just listen it because they love their parents they they know that they want the best for them and you know they have this connection with them. But as an adult, when you have that same quality, do you think that's an asset or a liability? Do you think that that makes you more vulnerable? Or you think you're more valuable, like you're better, you can live a better life for having that?
Speaker 2:same attitude.
Speaker 2:So I think that it depends what you want to be. So I think that it depends what you want to be, I think I think as a, as a cop is a, as a cog in a machine man, you're valuable, so valuable, um, but as, like a self-progression in life, I don't think it's an ad in long term. I don't think it's an asset, um, I think long. I think the way I was viewing this was the. The little prince made him ponder did you search for other solutions? Almost like, oh, like you could? You know you can walk that way. You can never do. You know you don't have to do this because the sun's was setting, because when he initially had this order, he was saying like, it was like I don't know what the time scale was like, oh, I had to turn on the light once a day or something, I forget what it was, but because the, the, the, his planet, started spinning faster, he had to do it more and more and more, to the point he was doing it to every two minutes or something.
Speaker 2:So for me, the lesson I got from it was at some point you have to stop and reflect. Is what I'm doing still helping me reach whatever, like the goal I set for myself, because sometimes we just start doing it with this goal in mind, like, oh, if I take this job, if I shadow this person, I'll start. I want to progress this way, or whatever. But if you don't stop and ponder, you'll just become a cog in a machine. You're not reaching a goal anymore, you're just doing the same thing over and over again. But if you would have self-reflect and meditate okay, is this thing I'm doing still helping me achieve this other goal?
Speaker 1:and I think that that's what I got from it in this, in this circumstance personally I wanted to take you, you know, kind of understand your take on this because I know that you know, I know you personally and you're a little, you rank a little higher in the rebellion scale than I do and orders are orders is probably like an insult to you. You wouldn't understand.
Speaker 2:No, the thing is dude. The thing is, my life was that, though I grew up in a household that orders were orders, que te valga? Whatever, whatever your sacrifice, you're going to do what I'm saying. So I think there is a sense of irk-ness whatever I don't know what the right word would be or like, oh, you know, like a sense, a sensitive part of me when it comes to this, because all my life that's how I was raised almost um, like, like this what makes you valuable if you know how to take orders, right, yeah, but but never acknowledging the person you know? It's always like you're just a thing doing this thing, you know. So I do think that I'm more like, oh, I don't like that. What about you like? Do you think it's an asset or a liability?
Speaker 1:to be honest, you know now that you mentioned what you draw from it, I didn't focus on this. When I read this little chat, we call it a chapter, right, I focus on the little prince because that's actually the attitude that I admired. You know, the little prince basically continued the journey. When he met the king, when he met, uh, the geographer, when he met these, the bane man or the drunkard, he didn't really have much of a connection, he didn't feel much for any of them. But for the lamplighter he said, you know, like at least he's the only one that's living for something other than himself yeah he's following an external order.
Speaker 1:He's doing it very good. It might seem silly to us, but he's doing it pretty good. And that's always been something that I strive to do right. Because when you look at what people value, you know you can think of someone that dedicates his life to art, to sports. It might not fit your personal value system right, you might think, oh, that's not a balanced life. I wouldn't dedicate my entire life to being an Olympian or to being, you know, a soccer player or a basketball player, whatever. But you can at least admire their dedication. And that's what the little prince did, even though it was silly to him that this lamplighter was kind of maybe stuck.
Speaker 1:We could think doing this over and over again and he had no control over it. He felt like at least he's doing it for someone other than himself.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I think that's the best way to kind of see people in a balanced way, because no one's going to see things the exact way that you do, like no one's going to value their time at the same rate that you, that you do or put their time on the same task that you think are important. And if you only value people that think like you, you're going to end up not valuing many people, because everyone's different, yeah, but if you learn to value people based on what they find important like, for example, if someone grows up and thinks that dedicating their life to soccer and that's the most important thing, you can at least admire that like someone's dedication and say, well, this person is very dedicated to his craft, his art, his sport, and you can at least feel that connection with them instead of disconnect and be like I have nothing in common with them and I think that's something that we can take on.
Speaker 1:To every person we meet right Like whatever they care about, whatever they value, if they're doing it, or if you know they're putting as much effort as a limplighter is to whatever they're doing, you can at least admire that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and respect the dedication. I think what tends to happen is maybe we judge someone if they're living their life differently than your own life. Again, to search for value for what you're doing, to acknowledge that, oh, what I'm doing is the right thing to do. Sometimes we could easily judge the lamplighter right, Like, oh, what I'm doing is the right thing to do. You know, sometimes we could easily judge the lamplighter right, Like, oh, what a waste of time. But the little priest took a moment to acknowledge, well, at least he's doing something for someone else. So it almost makes you reflect.
Speaker 2:Like you know, if we are extremely judgy people, right, If we tend to judge. If we are extremely judgy people, right, if we tend to judge. Maybe this could be a little task we can do. I'll try to find something good in them or something that you respect or admire, right, Something you wish you had. You know, because using sports figures like I don't have the dedication they got to anything. It's impressive. You know what I'm saying, but you can easily judge. Like you're saying it's in balance, how is saying? But you can easily judge like you're saying it's imbalanced. How's your family who knows that's? You know, only they know. But my point being is like if we at least try to learn from like maybe one attribute, then we can at least get that be better. You know it's.
Speaker 1:It was a fascinating one, the lamp lighter well, I think this is bringing us kind of towards the end of the book, and I only have two more things that I wanted to bring up. I don't know if you have any other quotes or themes that you would like to discuss.
Speaker 2:I mean I have quotes. I mean we can I have one quote that I thought would be good to talk about. Oh, there is a half--brick who was talking to um, maybe it was, maybe it was the the pilot talking to the little prince. But the quote I just wrote it down and says you see, one loves the sunset when one is so sad. That was the quote, and, and I think the the question I was trying to ponder on was why do you think the emotion of sadness can enhance an appreciation for something external, like a sunset or something else? And, oh, and also, if there's anything you like relate to, you know, like maybe, uh, even though there was a tough moment in your life, for whatever reason, you appreciated something that maybe you usually don't appreciate I think that's probably a bigger question that I and I am ready to to respond.
Speaker 1:But I think, besides the book and I might be missing something I think that speaks of just human nature, right, like when we see something that's bigger than ourselves, like a sunset. Every day we see those um especially in arizona.
Speaker 1:Yeah, beautiful yeah, or a huge mountain, you know, maybe even waves in a beautiful beach, whatever. Whenever we see something like that, we start thinking of, maybe things that are bigger than us, and maybe we remind ourselves of people, um, maybe that we've lost, or if you're for some reason, because I think it's weird as well, right, like, why do sunsets make us sad? But I think sunsets make us sad. If we're sad, right. If you're not sad, if you're having a great day, the the sunset probably reminds you of a day you spent at the beach having fun, and maybe a sunset would be fun. So we tend to attach feelings to external things, kind of like the fox explained right, the wheat means nothing to me.
Speaker 1:Like, I don't need it wheat means nothing to me, like I don't need it, but once I become friends with you, since you have blonde uh blonde hair color. It's gonna remind me of you and it's gonna make me happy.
Speaker 1:So, even though I have nothing to do with wheat, now that we're friends, it's gonna remind me of you well, the same thing can happen to a sunset or mountains or whatever external like, if it reminds us of a certain occasion, of a certain experience we had, it might elicit those same feelings that we were feeling at that point. And I mean a lot of things can do that and that probably is more like a psychological or, you know, maybe philosophical conversation. But like, even smells can do that right, like when you smell something that reminds you of back home, you might get sad and you might think of, you know, the menudo that your mom used to make, or something like that.
Speaker 1:And yeah, it might just take you back home do you think there's a way to?
Speaker 2:let's say there's a memory attached, maybe a negative memory, and let's use sunset because it's such a everyone experienced sunsets, right?
Speaker 1:like I mean it happens all around the world.
Speaker 2:Um, what if there is like a negative memory with sunsets? Do you think that is set in stone or could it be combated with a good memory?
Speaker 1:oh, I think that's tough and I think it honestly depends on everyone, because I think what I know about myself is, once we don't like something, whether it's, you know, a feeling or an experience, we want to stay away from it. And that makes sense, right. Like if, yeah, you know, let's say you ate something that was bad for you and you might not eat it for a long time, like denny's. Yeah, exactly, and it takes it takes a lot of vulnerability to just be willing to try it again. The same thing, like if, for some reason, sunsets are sad for you, you might avoid them. You might, you know and I think sunsets is metaphor for anything that you avoid or makes you sad but if you're vulnerable enough to say, you know what it's not fair to sunsets, that it makes me sad to see them, I'm going to try to put some attach, some good memories to this.
Speaker 1:You might, with time, be able to say you know what? Because I mean, you got to think of this. Your worst day is probably someone else's best day like the day you lost your job is probably the day someone found his dream job and they're super happy. It's all like in your eyes. So if you work really hard, I think you could, but that's just my take on it.
Speaker 2:I think, I agree. I agree, like the way I view it, it's almost like overriding a file on a computer. You know, and it's named the same thing, you know, but you overwrite it. You know, maybe it's happened to you in a computer where you drag and drop a file that has the same name and I asked, the computer asked you, do you want me to keep both or do you want me to delete the old one? And we got to choose to delete the old one. You know, and I think that the only way to do that, though, is, like you said, having that vulnerability and that choice, that decision to experience whatever thing that was that was attached to like a negative, you know, emotion or memory.
Speaker 1:And stop being attached to the sad things, right? Because kind of like that drunk guy that you know kept drinking because he was ashamed of drinking. You know we can continue dwelling on some sad stuff just because you know that's what we're used to, that's what brings us comfort and it's a weird coping mechanism. But I think all all humans fall victim to that, where we kind of keep doing the things that we don't like doing or that we don't really enjoy feeling. If we don't enjoy being alone or feeling lonely, we keep making decisions that lead to that and it takes a lot of personal growth to be able to get to that point where you don't do that anymore.
Speaker 2:But I think it's possible. I think anyone can do it. Yeah, I think so too.
Speaker 1:There's just so many beautiful lessons from yeah, from this book but you know, unless we want to continue going on forever, I do have two closing thoughts that I wanted to kind of get you to take on them okay, the first one is actually another quote towards the end of the book, so it kind of fits in this stage of our podcast or episode. What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well and it's the idea of contrast, right like you know a desert by nature has, you know, less than certain amount of rain every year.
Speaker 1:So water is kind of an opposite of a desert, but somewhere in the desert that there is probably a well, there is probably water. And if you're thirsty, that's where you're looking for. Like, what kind of thoughts come to your mind when you, when you read that quote? Like what did you think of? Cause? I don't think he's really discussing the desert, I think he's discussing something else.
Speaker 2:I think again, like I feel, like it points to me of like again the value system, like what do you value? For me, showing that the value, like scarcity is what, something that you know increases the value of something. And even though the desert in general might feel overwhelming or death, there's nothing that provides any value but that hope that there is a well somewhere out. There might be enough motivation to keep going. So I think that for me, when I was reading that, I connected again with the experience of the rose, the little prince and the rose. I just connected that experience of thinking of how vast the choice of finding someone, in this case his love for the rose, the scarcity of it, finding that one rose is what made it valuable. I think that's what I got from it. What about you? I feel like you got more of it than I did.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, to me it's full of symbolism. Right, a desert is beautiful, but to him, to the little prince of beauty, it lied on the fact that it hid a well. A desert cannot really hide anything, so it wasn't hiding well, it just contained a well somewhere. And I think, to me that tells me, you know, a lot of people get stuck on what most likely will happen or what is most apparent. And if you look at a desert, what's most apparent is that you're going to die of thirst.
Speaker 2:You're not going to find water.
Speaker 1:But the idea that somewhere in there there's water kind of brings you hope and you can travel that desert with hope that you'll find something.
Speaker 1:And you know to me that goes for people, right. Maybe it's hard to find a friend, it's hard to find someone that you connect with or someone that you know enjoys your company, and you might even get stuck in this feeling oh, there's no friends, there's nothing out there, it's a desert. Yeah, somewhere in that desert there's one right, and if you take that approach towards anything, that's unlikely, whatever it is, whatever you want, you know that idea that maybe somewhere in there it's kind of hidden even though it's not hidden but it seems like it's hidden because it's so hard to get that should drive your optimism or your will to continue searching for it. You know, if you search the desert with that idea or that knowledge that somewhere in there you're going to find what you want, you're going to be much happier than if you have this attitude of defeat, of like it's a desert, I'm going to die. There's no, there's nothing here, and I think that I mean.
Speaker 1:That's what I take from it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think not like hearing you, I just personifying it in in someone. I think that I agree with that thought of that. If thinking that there is something good in everyone can give you enough hope to try to find it. You know whether or not it exists, you know, because the odds are in a desert, could you, you know, will you find it? I don't know, the odds are against you, but I mean you have that positivity in your head that there is something good in that person. Maybe, like you said, give you the will, the power to actually go and find it and I was thinking in broader terms of a night that you mentioned.
Speaker 1:That, you know, makes me think, even in everyone, like if you think about just any person, you know that you kind of know maybe you don't like them that much, maybe their qualities don't really match yours, but if you start taking this approach of maybe somewhere in there, somewhere in their personality, there's a well, there's something I would connect to.
Speaker 1:There's something I would relate to and I would enjoy being and learning more about, then that's going to make you like that person a whole lot more right, because if you focus on the desert part and the ugly part, you're not going to like it but if you focus on the part that maybe somewhere in there, this person, this random joe that you at first glance don't like very much, might play the guitar and you love playing the guitar and I want to get to know that joe that plays the guitar.
Speaker 1:You're gonna see them as beautiful, you're gonna see. Okay that there's something I can connect to, and I mean that's a much better way to live than just seeing the worst in everyone and just thinking, oh, I don't like that person because I don't like him, I'm going to play devil's advocate.
Speaker 2:Though I'm going to play devil's advocate. The insinuation that everyone has a well also implies that you're trying to get something out of them right, because a well provides water. You're thirsty, you drink the water now. Does that corrupt the friendship if you're searching for something that benefits you, or do you think I'm going way off of the point? How do you feel?
Speaker 1:I mean you could take that approach, especially if you're being the devil's advocate, that is kind of your job to take the opposite approach, but I don't agree. I think in nature and also in human relationships there can be some form of I could be to every like listener out there. We make up words, mispronounce words, exactly invent words.
Speaker 2:We get pretty creative with it oh yeah, we say with confidence though that's what's important.
Speaker 1:uh, this idea of mutualism, where a species can get something from another but not really like affect them, or like negatively affect them, or look, but even positively affect them, I think there's. There's a couple mutualistic or mutualism, whatever relationships in nature, like where a certain bird you know eats, you know, certain fleas from a cow or from a crocodile, and that's how he gains a benefit, but also the crocodile or the cow gets rid of those fleas because it didn't eat them. So that idea of the well, you know, know, at first glance to you it might seem like, oh, you're getting something out of them, but it's not necessarily bad if they also get something out of you, right, yeah, like, if that, I mean it's a lonely world out there and if you are maybe using, you might think, someone as a, as a friend or you know, to gain company, at the same time, simultaneously they're doing the same with you.
Speaker 1:And that's not bad, that's not necessarily bad, nothing's wrong with that?
Speaker 2:yeah, and with that illustration you just gave, I felt like the solution to it is also assuming that that well doesn't have enough to feed someone else by me saying that they're taking from. Taking from that well is assuming they don't have enough to give but, if the well again, I'm personifying it like it's a thing they can give, but but in this case, like the well might be overflowing, right, and then it needs someone to take, you know, yeah, so or even if it's missing positive tone.
Speaker 1:You're assuming that you're looking for the well to drink from it, and I mean, I guess that's the correct assumption, but you could also be looking for the well to add to it maybe you have extra water and you want to add more to that?
Speaker 2:well, so dang I get us being all all cute. Okay, and you have one more right. I have one last thought until, and you have one more right.
Speaker 1:I have one last thought until maybe you have your last thoughts. The last one is towards the end, and it's kind of a sad ending if you think about it that way, and I don't want to discuss what actually happened in the book because I'm not even sure I understand it Yet. You know, some people say that he died. The little prince died at the end. Some people say that he didn't. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But towards the end he tells the pilot which at this point has become maybe not you know a costume, but maybe he's felt this form of connection or, you know, love towards the little prince that now when he looks at the stars somewhere there, I will be laughing, I'll be living right, and he tells him something unique will happen, because every time that he looks at the stars in the future when he's on Earth, he might laugh and people might think he's crazy, but he's laughing because somewhere out there is the little prince, even though the little prince probably won't see it happening. How do you think that relates to us and the people we encounter?
Speaker 1:because, I mean, the sad truth is that not everyone we know or we encounter in life, even if they're still alive somewhere out there, you know, far away, maybe in your case you're in mexico um far away from from from where I am, but I know that you're out there, you know like so maybe you know, when I see a mexican, something that reminds me of mexico, I immediately can make that connection to you. Maybe I even start laughing and someone would think I'm crazy.
Speaker 2:But they don't know about that how do you like, piece this in your head I I think, again I might feel like I'm restating the point, but I think that's that's the beauty of relationships and friendships because, again, the whole, the whole, throughout the whole story, he's trying to have a friend and, with this interaction of talking about stars, how both of them, in their own way, will be enjoying the moment, thinking of their friend. And I think that's the beauty of relationships that, no matter the distance, you can keep being friends and thinking about each other. You can keep being friends and thinking about each other because of those experiences, because of that time. You know those inside jokes, you know whatever you know, it can be anything. It increases your experience, your enjoyment, because you enjoy it with someone else. You know and I think that's where it's resonating that people might think someone's crazy, but that person that's crazy is happy. And I guess the question is who do you want to be? Are you trying to be the crazy person that's laughing happy or the person that's judging that person?
Speaker 2:because they're crazy, they're laughing by themselves yeah and I think, for me, I'd rather be the crazy person laughing, you know yeah, I mean, this book was written, I think, in 1940 or 1953 yeah 1943, way before we lived.
Speaker 1:I mean, today we live in a very connected world, so if you miss someone, even if they're far away in the world, you can still connect to them online through facetime, you know but in a way that kind of robs you of that. You know what the little prince is describing this we're not together, but yet we are like yeah, I still care about you, even though our lives kind of took different turns.
Speaker 1:I still want my friend out there to be happy or, you know, to find whatever he's looking for, and I mean to me that that idea of not knowing what's going on in someone's life but still assuming the best right. He told him that the pilot would look at the stars and see him living, but also seeing him laughing in a way he's happy yeah, you know and it's beautiful, I mean. I mean, that's the way you want to look at people, that you, that they're they're happy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do think that how you're saying like, nowadays, I think we're robbed a little bit of that feeling because we're so interconnected. But what's what's even sadder is that even that interconnection, there's this distance you know like, because when you present yourself, maybe on social media, isn't the true you, you know, and maybe those memories attached to that person are being corrupted by what you're observing on social media. You know that that distance you know like creates weirdly enough more value to your interactions. But if you're seeing them all the time, it might not even it might push you to not even miss them, you. But if you're seeing them all the time, it might not even it might push you to not even miss them. You know, because you're seeing them consistently on your social media. So man.
Speaker 1:I mean, I know where you fall in the hole. You know, because they say distance makes the heart grow. Fun, fonder, fonder. But also some people say out of sight, out of mind, but I mean, it seems like you're leaning on one side more than the other.
Speaker 2:No, I do think that it depends who, right. You can't think of everybody right, but I do think that those roses, so to speak, the people that you've tamed or tamed each other, those foxes, I guess. Those foxes I guess I'll use that better that term Because you've spent so much time together, like our friendship. We've spent so much time together, so many experiences story. We've gone, we've traveled together, we've done so much things together. I think it's easier to to think of of, of those types of friends compared to, like, you know someone you hung out in high school with and you hope they're OK, but you don't really think about them because you didn't have those same experiences. So the question really lies is are you having those experiences with those friends you really care about? Because sometimes, because of social media, you don't. You don't because you're like, oh, I see them all the time, but you don't. You don't because you're like, oh, I see them all the time, but you don't really. You don't get to make those new memories to increase the value for each other.
Speaker 1:so yeah, I mean we talked very positively about that interaction with the fox and the idea of being tamed, but also, you know, there's the other side of it, because the fox mentions, you're responsible for what you've tamed. Yeah, so once you make friendships with someone if you're responsible for what you've tamed. Yeah, so once you make friendships with someone, if you're a true friend, you can't really kind of forget about them.
Speaker 1:They can't go back to just being a stranger, that you don't really care what happens with them, but also like another side of it is now their pain becomes your pain, like now if they suffer you suffer and that's kind of sad, it's funny or maybe not funny, but like very interesting or, you know, captivating, that the fox didn't take the approach of, well, let's not tame or let anyone tame us, because it's going to bring pain. Possibly he was, he was open to that pain and he even told the little prince I might cry when you leave me, yeah, you know. But but that's, it was a good trade-off according to him. It was the right, it was the best decision and I think I concur with the the fox.
Speaker 2:I think that I agree, I agree completely. I think that vulnerability is the scariest thing to do, but it's also the most freeing thing, if you choose to do it. Um, I think he, he, I wrote that as one of the quotes. Actually, people have forgotten this truth, but you mustn't forget. You become responsible forever for what you've tamed. You're responsible for your rose. I think the trade-off you always get more, in my opinion, of a good friend than you can ever give them. That's how I feel. That's how I feel. And if you're so worried about the end, they'll never enjoy the now, you know, and that goes with relationships. That's the risk of getting married. Like the fear is, like what if my wife gets sick or in a car accident? Like the pain I'm going to go through is going to be the worst Right. Like that's a scary thought.
Speaker 2:But that thought shouldn't stop you from at least in my opinion, yeah, from being vulnerable and enjoying the relationship.
Speaker 1:I mean, marriage is a great, you know, it fits into a lot of the lessons you kind of go over in the little prince, but also, I think, as a as a pet owner, you know, the idea of you know having a pet, someone that's attached to you, that you're responsible for. But it's also interesting, like you know, it takes you back to the rose, because you you can kind of argue that humans are unique or that they have a personality. They're all different.
Speaker 1:When it comes to dogs. I mean, I have a golden retriever and I can go to a park and find a lot of golden retrievers that look very similar to my golden retriever. Yeah, and I'm going to like them. They're beautiful golden retrievers too, but they're not my golden retriever. They're not Bruno, they're not my golden retriever, not they're not bruno, they're not the one I have a relationship with.
Speaker 1:You know, no one really has a dog as a puppy, or at least no good person that I know has a dog as a puppy and then, at five years old, decides you know what? This one's old. I'm gonna get a new one. I'm gonna get up, I'm gonna get a new puppy, because this one just got old. There's better ones you are responsible for your pet until something tragic happens, unfortunately but it's a decision you make and you're going to take care of them for for the duration of their lifetime.
Speaker 1:And I think you know, if you take a certain approach you know, to relationships and friendships and you know definitely marriage of taking care of them. You know that's maybe what the little prince learned in this journey, that that's what makes it special. It's not that they're different, unique, it's that they're.
Speaker 2:They're yours, it's your rose and it's different than all the other roses, because it's yours it's just beautiful lessons we learned in a little prince, and I can't agree more. I can't agree more. I think I think it was a great book that we chose. I mean it's considerable, I mean it's a book. It's a book, it's it's book. It's short. Anyone who wants to read it. It's quite short. You can read it in the evening with a little coffee, but there's just so much lessons and I think that you could always like this type of book that you could read a year from now and you'll always get something else out of it, something to apply or reflect on.
Speaker 2:So my closing thoughts of this book is do you value your rose? I think that's the question I ponder myself. And if you don't know if it's a yes or no, and maybe self-reflect that, like the little prince, learned throughout this journey what makes my rose special, whatever that is, maybe friendships, your family, you know, your spouse, your dog, it could be anything, um, but I think pondering on that question that's what this book made me, help me to keep pondering that will increase the values of my friendships. And then, and and maybe sometimes we're we're like in my case I'm speaking to myself maybe we don't call, call, you know our friends like we like to or or check up on them. This book makes you realize the the value we have to our friends.
Speaker 2:And you might not have them one day, you know. And if you're not taking advantage the time you do have them, then friends and you might not have them one day, you know. And if you're not taking advantage of the time you do have them, then one day you might regret really bad and you can't change it in the future. But you can. You can do something now. You can call someone now to check in on them. Call them, you know, do whatever you can to see them. So I think that's what I took out of it. The biggest lesson for me about the little prince was that what about you?
Speaker 1:To me it out of it. The biggest lesson for me about the little prince was that. What about you? To me it didn't seem like a cliche, because probably my favorite lesson was one of the main quotes that you brought up, and it's you know the idea that you can only see rightly with the heart most things are that are important, are invisible to the eye.
Speaker 1:As humans, we like to quantify things, you know, we like to assign numbers to it and value a home is worth this much and a job gets paid this much a year, yeah, and we can get caught up on all those numbers and all those details, but at the end of the day, the things that matter the most like about a friend is not really his job or what he does. Like the things that you can quantify, it's maybe experiences, things that you know, you've noticed about their heart. They're very kind. When they see you know a certain situation, they react a certain way and like learning to see those could be little things is really more important than seeing those things that are maybe more visible and more openly out there.
Speaker 2:And I mean, that's what I take.
Speaker 1:And I mean, like you said, the Little Prince is such a small, short, maybe even child friendly book. The Little Prince is such a small, short, maybe even child-friendly book, Yet, at the same time, any adult, regardless of what life they're living, can draw a lot of important lessons from it. And that's the journey that we're trying to embark in Trying to find different books, different lessons that we can gain and what they teach us about our life, because, at the end of the day, that's really what we want to improve our day-to-day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly so. Thank you everyone who's listened thus far. It was our first episode. Thank you guys for joining in and hopefully you, you got much out of this, as we did. Ultimately, this, this journey, if you're going to join us, is going to be our journey of lessons. We're getting from whatever book content, articles, movies, whatever. We're going to be analyzing to see how this affects us and how we can keep growing a little bit and bettering ourselves. So if there's anything that you relate to, feel free to share that with us and any suggestions of books, we would take them as well. And again, thank you for listening in. And any last words, carlos.
Speaker 1:I think you summarized it pretty well. See you next time, and you know, we'll see what journey we embark in after the little prince Sweet. She was about 85 years old and she came to visit here in the US and I was in this German class and one of the students asked her, like what's your favorite book? And this was her favorite book in German, I think it's Der Kleinprinz, I think she called it. So I looked it up and, sure enough, it's widely translated. So I picked up a copy in English or Spanish, I don't know which one, I think it was in English and that's kind of like when I fell in love with the book, so like it was introduced to me by someone that was 85 years old. Wow, and that kind of just speaks, I mean, because I mean this person was a reader, I think, and she mentioned many. I think that's why we asked her what her favorite book was, because she mentioned that's one of her passions drinking wine and reading books and we asked her why. We obviously didn't know about wine.
Speaker 1:We were in high school we wanted to know what her favorite book was, and that was it. And the fact that she was 85 years old and probably read her entire life and yet this book was her favorite, kind of like, made me interested. I was like, oh, if this person that's 85 years old loves this book and probably read a lot more books than I have, let's give it a shot. And that's kind of where it happened he fell in love with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it must have been impactful, right, it must have been impactful to see uh, you know again someone that's no doubt consumed a lot of books, read a lot of books, to say that this children's book was his favorite.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's pretty crazy maybe she achieved it, maybe she was managed to stay a child or keep that inner child alive, and then, who knows, that's awesome yeah, and I remember you introducing it to me.
Speaker 2:I think you might even share the story when you, when you uh I'm pretty sure you did uh, I remember being in your car. I think it was like after, like we just got some starbucks, probably, or something, and I think you told me this experience about this book and I'm like, let me try it again, like I'm not an avid reader. So I was like, yeah, sure, why not? And I was like, wow, this is really good, it's impacted, so I'm glad that this was my first book.
Speaker 2:I'm just a copycat, bro. I've been trying to copy you all my life what's your book the steal like an artist. That's your, your life, that's literally my way of living bro, that should be our next book. That should be. That's a great book. That's a great like an artist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think I've read it. We could do it, you haven't read it.
Speaker 2:Oh, bro, it's, it's super, it's, I mean, short, it's short, um, it's short, sweet. But like I don't know, I got a lot of value as someone I mean, I'm not an artist, but someone who likes to create. I think that I value it a lot and then I recommend it for anyone who feels like they're not creative. I think it's a great book.
Speaker 1:Which is me.
Speaker 2:So let's do it Cool Next week. Then Steal Like an Artist.
Speaker 1:Let's do it, and that wraps up our discussion for this episode.
Speaker 2:We hope you enjoyed diving into this topic as much as we did If you found value in our conversation. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review, and share this episode with your friends and anyone else who loves to learn.
Speaker 1:We've got more exciting topics coming up, so stay tuned.
Speaker 2:Thanks for joining us on Re-Enrolled. Until next time, keep learning and stay curious.