Good Boys
Good Boys is a podcast from FOR THEM about two trans guys, Kylo Freeman (actor) and Motti (comedian) reflecting on what it means to be a “good boy."
Coming of age is hard, understanding yourself is hard, what the fuck does it even mean to be a boy? Kylo and Motti challenge each other on their past selves, their journeys now, and how to be good people. They're learning a lot about themselves and figured why not do it in front of the world? What could possibly go wrong!
On Good Boys, the hosts will get up close and personal about the moments in their lives that encourage, challenge and prevent them from being... well... Good Boys. They'll have some help from friends and role models who'll come on as guests and teach them a thing or two.
Good Boys
Model Behavior with Jes Tom
On this episode of Good Boys, we're thrilled to welcome Jes Tom, a multi-talented actor, writer, comedian and unserious commercial model. We cover everything from "Golden Girls" to snakes in pants (not like that, we swear) to post-op top surgery life.
You can find Jes Tom on Instagram, Twitter and at the Rattlestick Theater July 30 - Sunday, Aug. 4 for their run of Cecilia Gentili's Red Ink.
Good Boys is a For Them podcast co-hosted by Kylo Freeman and Motti, and audio engineered by timalikesmusic. Submit advice questions to goodboys@forthem.com.
I mean, listen, if I'm really reflecting and I'm going to be really vulnerable here, I, as soon as I said, like, oh, I'm not, like, I'm not feeling that like 13 year old horniness. I think it's because I'm in a monogamous relationship, so I can't. I can't like view it as like all these people I'm having sex with, but but we live together and I am realizing I'm like every time I'm in the house and she's not, I am jacking off. Um, welcome back to good boys. Whoo, good boys, good boys. And we have a guest today. Hi, our guest is jess tom, model actor. We have established guest today. Hi, our guest is Jess Tom, model actor.
Speaker 3:We have established that we're all models and actors, all models and actors, on this podcast.
Speaker 1:And I mean you're funny what you could be a comedian, kyla. I'm not a comedian that's not me but I'm sat with two incredible comedians and models, as we've there we go as we've established yeah, and we're having you on um good boys, the podcast where kylo and I, two trans dudes that we say specifically because we're afraid to say trans men right now why are you afraid of that?
Speaker 1:we're joking that we're like not quite there yet, which we talked about like in the first episode, but I think neither of neither of us are just like there yet. I still say it like I am a trans guy, but I always default to like trans guy or trans dude instead of trans man, I think because it's too serious for me it's too loaded. I mean that is what it is.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm fully transitioning, but yeah, and I was saying that I am attached to the word non-binary.
Speaker 1:This is like I just still love it, so I have a very fluid.
Speaker 2:I'm very fluid. I don't know if I am or if I just keep saying it over and over and over. So if I keep saying it, then that means it's true, but I think.
Speaker 3:I think I am yeah, no, that's allowed, I just always we are seeking your approval um yeah, I know, I was invited here because I'm I'm an incredible model and role model. This is not funny.
Speaker 2:Let's keep going, You're perfect Wait can I say something?
Speaker 3:I am in an era where I'm fully nocturnal.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:So the fact that I am here at like noon 30, which is not an early time in the day, it's like dawn for me.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:So if I seem like weird, it's because I like actually am not seeing this time of day, okay usually you're perfect.
Speaker 2:Are you someone that does all your best work at night? I?
Speaker 3:wish that were true. I think it's mostly like watching tv. What?
Speaker 1:are you watching right now?
Speaker 3:what am I?
Speaker 1:I'm watching golden girls oh yeah, for the first time okay, I've never seen it, I've also never seen it it's.
Speaker 3:I'm very into content about old ladies being friends right now.
Speaker 1:I don't know what that is psychologically, but that's like what I want to see yeah, it's, it's really good, okay, cool, or do you have other examples of old women being good friends?
Speaker 3:grace and frankie is my, oh my god. I love grace and frankie. If you like grace and frankie, you'll like golden girls. I mean, that's like grace and frankie's big sister.
Speaker 1:I love Grace and Frankie.
Speaker 2:I feel like we could learn a lot from the old lady friendship.
Speaker 3:The movie 80 for Brady. Oh, you like, it's actually a feminist film. Okay, 80 for Brady. Okay, more feminist than Barbie.
Speaker 1:Am I? Yeah, Barbie was hardly.
Speaker 3:I won't weigh in on that. But, yeah, 80 for Brady.
Speaker 1:It's very about um old women's friendships and desires and not very much about football.
Speaker 3:But they're all like obsessed with tom brady. They are obsessed with tom brady, but mostly they're obsessed with um being friends with each other okay, oh yeah, that's really sweet. Um, yeah, now that I've uh, fully derailed, literally your introduction literally you were like hi, like this is the podcast. And I was like do you know about old ladies being friends?
Speaker 1:on TV. Well, fuck a format. Well, I do. I don't want to glaze over an introduction, though, so like we've got Jess Tom on the podcast today, Hi Hi Jess. Jess is a actor, writer, comedian, an unserious model. I want to lend time to your hotness thank you.
Speaker 3:I like to think of myself as aspirational but still relatable yes, that is what you are though I love that yeah um, okay, we covered.
Speaker 1:We kind of went into media. Um, we like to also start with like how we've been good boys this week, and so that doesn't have to be like how you've been good at being a boy. It could be as wholesome as you helped an old lady across the street or you had a really great lay, or like it couldn't truly be anything there's no rules really.
Speaker 3:I um cleaned my bathroom this week. That is good boy yeah, which I think is very good boy. Was it bad? Yes, it was you know, is it, is it rachel costar who does that show yes, that's like boys rooms fantastic sometimes I watch those and I'm like, uh-oh, is that me?
Speaker 1:oh, no, I've been to your apartment.
Speaker 3:That's not you you've been in the front part of the apartment. That's true, I guess I haven't been in your bathroom and I probably like hid a bunch of embarrassing stuff right before you walked in. But I it was bad enough that me cleaning the bathroom was like a huge like psychic weight off of me okay, cool um, so I think that's my good boy thing for the week I love that.
Speaker 2:You know, I feel like my week was very relationshipy. I was like a good boyfriend. We went on like a bike ride which I organized, and then I saw this wait, hold on.
Speaker 1:I have to interrupt you. How'd you organize the bike ride?
Speaker 2:listen, do you say let's go for a bike ride. I said let's go for a bike ride. I walked us to the city bike dock and I decided where we were going to go okay, we, we cycled over the bridge. It was very romantic and beautiful okay and pretty loud.
Speaker 2:Actually now I think about it, but it was, it was nice. And then I saw this like trending thing on Instagram that said, um, that you should ask your, you should be brave and you should ask your partner like a, a tough question, and it was like how can I be better in this relationship? And I asked that question wow, wow, yeah, deep right.
Speaker 1:Do you feel comfortable sharing the response?
Speaker 2:yeah, the response is that I'm a. I'm a boy, a good boy, that's always on time, okay, and my girlfriend is not an on-time human, mm-hmm. And so what she should ask that I could do better is like be a little more patient in those moments, okay, because I'm like we got to go, what time it is late, mm-hmm, you know, and I get very stressed out, and so I'm trying to. I'm trying to be more patient. That's really good feedback.
Speaker 1:I should ask my partner how I could be a better partner. Could be be a scary answer.
Speaker 3:I don't have a partner, which means I'm perfect and I don't have to change. That actually does mean you're perfect. That actually does mean that I don't have to do anything.
Speaker 1:I think my example of good boy this week is I started my workout journey, my fitness era, my gym bro moment.
Speaker 2:Love that.
Speaker 1:Because I'm not a self-motivated person. Because I'm not a self-motivated person, I have to be motivated by someone holding me accountable. And so I have gotten that and I went to the gym and I'm very intimidated by the gym and I don't feel good there, but I have a gym in my building and I had it to myself last night and a guy came in to start running on the treadmill and usually I would pack up my stuff and leave, but I stayed Love that.
Speaker 1:And I still referred to start like running on the treadmill and usually I would like pack up my stuff and leave but I stayed and I like still referred to like I was watching youtube videos, which is like kind of embarrassing for me and like I kept doing that and I like didn't stop just because there was a dude in there. Nice, and that's great. Um, I'm so glad we've all been good boys. I'm so glad about that, um. And then so we have a game, which is what I gave you, this little sign. Here we have 10 headlines from various news sources and we're going to decide. You're going to hold up if, um, you're going to judge if it's good boys or bad boys it's very binary of you.
Speaker 1:It's very it is very binary.
Speaker 2:We're all about binaries if you're feeling a little more fluid, you can flip it, which has happened with that?
Speaker 1:this has happened uh, okay, first headline mayor eric adams unveils first official new york city bin for trash pickup.
Speaker 3:Announces new rule for this fall when you said, mayor eric adams, I should have just put bad boy immediately yeah, I, I hear that, I, I hear you, jess, I feel like I went good boy, because you should.
Speaker 2:I mean, it seems like a good idea, you know, bins, but I mean it should have occurred many, many decades ago fine.
Speaker 3:I think that urban planning and infrastructure are important and they're good boys, but he is a bad boy, he's a bad, bad boy, all right.
Speaker 1:moving on to headline number two, man with 1,000 kids says the real count is closer to 500. Bad boy, have you heard about this?
Speaker 3:I just know this is bad.
Speaker 1:To give you context, there's a new like, I guess. I don't know if it counts as true crime. It kind of feels true crime.
Speaker 3:A man existing is a crime.
Speaker 1:Yes, a man existing is a crime. Yes, this guy is like a sperm donor and like has a what people believe to be a thousand kids across the world and a lot of them are, like lesbian couples.
Speaker 3:Is he like really hot with great genetics?
Speaker 1:so that's what no? He thinks himself to be. But I saw a picture and I don't mess. He looks like like a knockoff.
Speaker 2:Thor he's got like long blonde hair and facial hair yeah, he's described, though, as like a tall, strapping long, flowing blonde hair I think the lesbians are more accountable to this than he is necessarily.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they picked him. Yeah, and it sounds like they picked a white supremacist yeah, that says more about that. I thought he was just going out, you know, sowing his seed. No, no, okay. Well then, no, that's.
Speaker 2:But he lied though, yeah he lied, he lied. The lesbians weren't aware that he has 999 of the children.
Speaker 1:Well, 499 now apparently so they're joining the chosen family.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think bad boy, don't mess with people's families like that. It's such a precious thing.
Speaker 3:It's so hard to create a family 100, you should get residuals for the kids.
Speaker 1:Just kidding, I don't think that I'm just trying to find places to put in residuals. Yeah, let's get this man some money. Next headline man stopped at customs with 100 live snakes down his pants. Good boy, wait, so I'll be contrary. I'll say bad boy, because he had 104 snakes like in these, like plastic bags, in his pants. That has to be some kind of animal abuse okay, I didn't know, they were in plastic bags did you think they were not specified? Yeah, just loosen the pants.
Speaker 3:I thought I was like that's very impressive, 104 and to get as far as customs, that's that's true really far.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is, this is a it feels just a hilarious, hilarious prank it is. I think it's impressive.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it's.
Speaker 3:I think there's something insidious going on well, yeah, I mean it's animal trafficking, isn't?
Speaker 1:it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's gonna sell them, right yeah and then so I read this article.
Speaker 1:it's not, we don't always read the articles, but this headlines, which is fantastic for journalism. But I actually read it and they're like and this is comes a month after a man smuggled 14 turtles in his pants, so it seems to be a thing.
Speaker 2:What kind of what kind of puns? I need to know, Probably cargo Right With pockets.
Speaker 1:And then you're on the plane and you're sitting on the snakes on a plane. Exactly nothing new under the sun um, okay, this is a fun one. Next headline mike myers, eddie murphy and cameron diaz star in shrek five. They've announced the fifth shrek installment.
Speaker 2:Go on, I'm gonna give a good boy. Yeah, I think that's good boy I think that's good boys.
Speaker 1:Original cast 100. Could you imagine? They came out with the shrek five and it was just like all new people all female reboot who would? Who would you want to be in it?
Speaker 2:all female reboot yeah keeping camera for some reason my brain just went julia roberts, but I don't know that would be great, right, yeah?
Speaker 3:all female shreks starring julia roberts yeah my head went to.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we have cameron diaz. Let's have the original charlie's angels cast, so lucy lu and drew barrymore, and have them in there I'm pro that.
Speaker 3:I'm always pro lucy lu. I'm very pro.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sagittarius queen yeah next one not as fun as the last one. Biden is now deporting more people than Bad bad bad, bad bad, you scared me.
Speaker 3:then, jess, you started with a good no, no, no, I just lifted the sign. I just was like something has to stop reading. Anyway, go ahead To be fair.
Speaker 1:Well, it's just that Biden is now deporting more people than Trump.
Speaker 3:Yeah that's horrible.
Speaker 1:You're going to go Shrek deport? Yeah, we're covering a lot of everything. We cover a lot of ground. Okay, next headline, federal judge halts biden's new title ix gender identity protections rule for for context for my uk friends yes, it's all about gender identity discrimination and so this is specifically for uh, protecting people against discrimination in health care. So this is something biden put in place now a federal judge in fifth from missouri. In 15 states, there's not going to be gender identity protection against discrimination in health care.
Speaker 2:This is obviously bad, obviously bad. I'm somehow not surprised some of these are going to be easy.
Speaker 1:You know, uh, this next one, uh, trevor project announces new ceo, james black, to help uh to helm the LGBTQ suicide prevention nonprofit. I saw this, you saw this.
Speaker 2:Amazing. I thought you'd have opinions. Yeah Well, this is a non-binary human right. Mm-hmm, very cool. Yeah, yeah, I mean, trevor Project is amazing. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 3:I guess, yeah, of all the things, to be CEO of Trevor Project is a good one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Am I understanding is a good one. Yeah, am I understanding? This person's a person of color? Yeah, non-binary. I mean, yeah, great, that's good. Yeah, all this is good. I think that's cool. Yeah, and that was uh, that was good boys in the news.
Speaker 2:So, jess, you recently had top surgery. I think you just did three three months post-op. I did, yeah, congratulations, thank you congrats how'd it?
Speaker 3:go. Um, it was good, it was chill, it's been chill. I mean, I'm interested in talking to you about this moddy just because, like I, I know you and you got yours done, like two months before me, I think yeah um, and I think that we probably had pretty different experiences I think we did, yeah, so you had keyhole I did yeah, yeah, can you talk to me about keyhole. So keyhole is basically the least invasive version of top surgery.
Speaker 3:The incisions go like right under the areolas and then they just like pull the tissue out and then sew it back up again, so nothing gets like moved or changed it's like basically the same thing, but you know they take the sand out of the bag yeah, that's what I figured.
Speaker 1:I always assume. I always like envision, like I always thought it was the side, though actually yanking it out the side, but it's the bottom yeah, it's the bottom, so I don't have like double incision scars.
Speaker 3:But also just like nothing is like moved like it's almost as though yeah everything is exactly the same, except that tissue came out yeah, uh, factory setting nipples yeah, factory setting nipples og nipples cool so it's interesting because it's just very subtle, which I imagine is a really different experience from what what you've had yeah, I had a double incision, nipple graft.
Speaker 1:Is that what you had? I? Had that too yeah, so I had, I had a large chest, um, and yeah, I mean it's, it's. It feels very not subtle I don't know what, what the very drastic.
Speaker 1:It took a while to get used to actually totally nipples totally resized. They're like finally starting to look pretty normal. But I really thought that my scars were going to be a lot different. I'm I have like feelings about the results. I think that my scars kind of do this like swooping down like rounded shape rather than like straight across that I see on everybody else. But then I'm like I don't even think that would have been possible.
Speaker 3:My boobs were so big. I mean, there's definitely, there's all kinds of scars exactly yeah, all kinds of scars and people have all kinds of different results and like different ways of like like. I feel like you either said or you wrote somewhere that that you and the surgeon didn't really like map out like what was gonna happen, yeah, and like some people, the surgeon is really specific beforehand. I don't know what your experience with that was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my surgeon was super specific about it, um, about, like, how I wanted the scars and what she had a very strong view of, like recommendation of what she would suggest for me, given my chest size and given what she'd done before and all these things. So mine are pretty straight across, my nipples are like the pigment hasn't come back in them, I guess. Yeah, you know, so it's like I'm hoping that they're going to darken up a little bit. Yeah, um, but I know, marty, that you're feeling the feeling in your chest oh yeah and mine is like not even for a second I don't feel anything.
Speaker 1:I don't feel anything. Yeah I don't feel anything you don't feel anything as in like, if I poked your chest you wouldn't feel that I could feel the pressure, okay, yeah, but as though under a thick blanket got it okay. My the, the feeling like the tissue and the nerves, never changed like I immediately like right after, like I feel, when I touch it, like there's no numbness.
Speaker 2:I know your armpits were numb for a while, kyla yeah, they're still kind of numb a little bit, to be honest with you um none.
Speaker 1:That never happened for me also, I have. I have. What is it? Nipple stimulation, like I feel sensations thank you. Sensation in my left nipple, my my right nipple. I can tell that I'm touching it, but my left nipple, like, still communicates to the rest of my body that's wow. In that is I mean, we all know what I mean when I say that and that's like really cool for me I have like a bizarre thing that I'm guessing.
Speaker 2:I haven't asked my doctor, but I'm. I have a random, really sensitive part of my chest that's not my nipple, and I'm like. Is that my that happens? Is that the nerves from my nipple before?
Speaker 3:or something that is like remapping to somewhere I hooked up with a guy once who said he couldn't feel anything in his nipples, but he could feel it in, like his chest up here right like a sensual feel.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh cool, and I'm like I think I have the same thing, but it's so, it's like so sensitive that I'm like not there yet for anyone to like touch it yeah, but I I think maybe over time. But then I'm like, is my whole chest just a sensitive nipple? I mean maybe that's cool.
Speaker 3:I don't know. That's cool. Yeah, I'm waiting. I don't feel pretty much anything right now yeah so I'm just waiting to see.
Speaker 1:I'm giving myself a year to see what happens, yeah, and then just see yeah, I mean it takes a while to fully heal. Yeah, um, I know you said you were on fire island recently, or am I making that up?
Speaker 3:I was in June.
Speaker 1:I remember you posted something we're just going to refer to each other's internet posts, but um, you posted something about like perception of your either. What was it?
Speaker 3:like you're either, oh, I said, I feel like my pool side perception has gone from lesbian to gay guy with something imperceptibly but undeniably wrong is that because you feel like are you getting that from other people like? Interacting with you. I don't know that I actually am. I might just be totally projecting but.
Speaker 3:I had this interesting moment where I was at this pool party with like a lot of gay guys cis gay guys and I took my shirt off and like got in the pool and I was like huh, I wonder. I just wonder what they think is going on right now yeah, just because I don't have, like an extremely clear tell yeah double incision scars, totally.
Speaker 3:I just was like I don't, I don't know, I don't know what they think, and like I was like for the first time ever it's possible that like I walked into the room and people were like, oh, this is like a girl or a lesbian or something, and then I like took my clothes off and people were like, oh, this is like a girl or a lesbian or something and then I like took my clothes off and people were like, huh, was I wrong, when before it's always been the opposite?
Speaker 1:yeah, right, do you want to know what they're thinking?
Speaker 3:um, no, I don't, I don't know, I don't know. I mean, this is all so like new for me to be navigating. Yeah, um, and I mean my like, my history with gay guys is also relatively new from the past, like three years. Um, and I I also had an experience where I was at a party, just like a big.
Speaker 3:I was at bubble tea which is a big like queer asian party, and I took off my shirt because it was hot and I was like what the fuck like, I'll just, I'll just do it like and all these gay guys have their shirts off and I had a couple of instances of like guys coming up to me and dancing with me and just being like I just don't know exactly what they think, whereas before I would go to gay stuff and like, take my shirt off just because.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But like, because I like had a bit of a chest. I was like like, okay, like, if you come up to me, you must know something is going on yeah um, and then now I was like I just don't totally know and it kind of scared me. Yeah, I think that would scare me too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had something somewhat similar where, like I, the first weekend of june, I went to fire island with my girlfriend, her uncle like just got a place on fire island, so like we were, going to like break it in whatever.
Speaker 1:And we went to tea party and I did feel this thing where, like I also understood, like me and my girlfriend now like technically I guess, when you break it down or in our like very much a heterosexual relationship, because she's a bi cis woman and I'm a trans dude, I understand we're in this like gay space, we look like just like this, like white cishet couple, basically. I mean, I guess that's assuming I pass, whatever. But it was this thing where I was like, okay, I understand, I'm like it. Maybe this isn't my space to be in, but I'm here and I was wondering how they were perceiving me and all the guys were coming up to me, complimenting my outfits and just being like I love how lesbians dress. So I was like, okay, they're clocking me as a lesbian. But then I got a little upset and I didn't want them to clock me as a lesbian, but I love being a lesbian does any of this make sense?
Speaker 1:totally, it was just like oh okay, like I wonder how I fit in this space.
Speaker 2:Well, no, totally that makes sense. I think the only thing I can think of. Well, two things. One is when I go to the gym, I have gone into the male changing rooms a bunch, even before top surgery, and, to your point, jess, before top surgery they were just like there's a trans guy or a lesbian in here, I guess, and they just, you know, avoid my eyes a bit and now I take my shirt off and this is I. By the way, I get double taped by every single guy in that place and they do this thing where they like double take on my chest. So I guess I have the thing where they're like oh, I know exactly what this is, because the two scars and I feel like there's a bit more, except that there's more acceptance of me. But certainly they stare at me, but I realized I was saying to my girlfriend I don't, oh thanks.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't feel that. But but I was saying to my girlfriend, I think I like, I was like I don't. She was like does it piss you off that they're staring at your chest? And I was like no, I don't know if it's because I'm like super proud of it, like I love being a trans guy and like, yeah, these are my scars and I love my scars, or whether, whether I sort of love the education piece of it, especially my gym's, like super hetero. So I'm like, yeah, there's a trans guy in here. Don't be mean to trans people in general and I'm in your.
Speaker 2:I'm in your space, I'm air quoting, yeah yeah you know, so that I don't know. So that's been interesting for me since I've had top surgery. And then to your point on the. On the partying I was in a very sapphic space for pride and a friend of mine, who's non-binary trans, more masculine presenting, walked in with me and was like dude, this is not our space, like we cannot be in here for sure, and felt super uncomfortable and I didn't feel uncomfortable until they said that.
Speaker 2:But I wonder what you guys feel about partying and stuff like that. Like, do you feel like you could be in those traffic spaces?
Speaker 1:still yeah, for me personally and I and I still love it yeah yeah, yeah, just yeah, jess, I don't.
Speaker 3:for me it's not about like identity or or not. Not, it's all about identity. It's not about perception for me. I think perception-wise I can totally be in a lesbian space and I'm not like bothering anyone or anything.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I identify more as like a gay guy these these days. So I don't want to be that, because I don't like being perceived as a lesbian and if I'm like in a lesbian's face. I'm gonna be perceived as a lesbian, which is fine like and I get why. And like I did, you know, I did a 17 year tenure in lesbianism, so I've been. I know what it's like.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I did a show at the bush a little while ago yeah, um, and I like looked around and I was like, oh, this is like it's like going back to my old school, yeah, and being like you know, I loved my time here but.
Speaker 1:I don't think I belong here yeah, I kind of felt that way because it was. It was like the pride show that I did a couple weeks ago and it was truly an all lesbian crowd and a lot of my material like my 10 now is like mostly trans stuff and I was like, oh, they're notbian crowd and a lot of my material like my 10 now is like mostly trans stuff and I was like, oh, they're not really rocking with it, when I was like I should have just done my old 10. That was all dyke stuff, like I should have just known to do that.
Speaker 3:I mean, I'm sure there were plenty of people in the crowd who also are on transmasc spectrum.
Speaker 1:Some trans spectrum. I made some trans spectrum. I made some trans mask references and it was not interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh, I feel like gen z is very capital s sapphic, like the change in culture has been exponential, more than okay what. I'm 33, so I'm like five years older than you or something um, but I've been out as a queer person for almost 20 years which is crazy, that is crazy really crazy and like the shift in culture that I've seen over that time is like just exponential, especially just in the past, literally like three years. Yeah, it's changed a lot. I understand, I would agree with that.
Speaker 2:And then you've just had given our age not to isolate the youngins oh no I'm young yeah we've just had, I think, two, a completely different upbringing, like totally barely any technology. I'm a bit older than you but like barely any technology. I had facebook super late, all this stuff and it's the disadvantages of. I think that's why I it's so cool that you came out so early, by the way I think I like struggled and didn't understand fully.
Speaker 2:And I think I look at gen z and I'm like, of course you understand your sexuality, it's everywhere, yeah you know, and whereas I didn't get that, but at the same time I sort of loved that I didn't have all this like comparison and technology no, we kind of had to figure stuff out on our own, and but I also think that that made it so.
Speaker 3:You know, I said I've been out as like a queer person for a really long time, but I've only been like medically transitioning for four years out of that time, yeah so it did take me like a long time to really figure stuff out like for real.
Speaker 1:I was thinking about it the other day. I didn't. I came out in 2018 and I'm like damn, it's only been six years. It feels like it's been 20 years. It feels like it's been my whole life.
Speaker 2:Are you both feeling this like coming of age thing that everyone keeps talking about? Like, do you feel like a, a young person in an older person's body?
Speaker 3:yes, yes, no. I'm doing like 22 year old gay shit and I'm like too old to be doing yeah, it's kind of fun, though. I mean, I think it's kind of cool, you know sort of I'm like like legs up in the recreation room of some guy's apartment building, being like I'm like in my 30s and I don't know that I should be here at five in the morning.
Speaker 1:Right now I feel the opposite and maybe it's just what I have going like. I'm like in my 30s and I don't know that I should be here at five in the morning. Right now I feel the opposite and maybe it's just what I have going like. I'm like you know, me and my girlfriend live together. We moved, I'm in Manhattan now like and we're monogamous and like all of that. So I actually feel the opposite. I feel like I'm very much like growing up and settling down and it doesn't scare me. I think I've always kind of wanted that. But everyone like I'm three months on T now and everyone was like, when you start T, like you're going to feel like a 13-year-old boy, you're going to want to hump everything, you're going to be running around, you're going to want to go to the. None of that is happening for me, just you'll see.
Speaker 3:Okay, so it's.
Speaker 1:I'm not at the very, very, very beginning okay and like you don't really know, because everyone made it seem like it was gonna happen, like in the first couple of weeks I feel like what I've learned just from transitioning is that, like you don't really you don't know what's gonna happen yeah and you don't know what's gonna happen to you and what happened to so and so is not necessarily gonna happen to you totally.
Speaker 3:You just have to kind of find out yeah um, and it'll like happen at your own pace yeah, yeah, you can't really know which is what I don't know.
Speaker 3:That kind of brings me back to the social media of it all, where I feel, like you know, social media invites comparison in every aspect you know in career and like what you look like and anything um, and I feel like that's kind of a double-edged sword with trans stuff yeah especially in this kind of like tiktokian era of like. This is what it's like like. Come with me in a day of a life of a trans guy when it's like no, that's you, that's you like you, you don't know. You don't know what it's gonna be like yeah for yourself yeah.
Speaker 1:So let's say let's say that that's a problem, like we don't. Maybe it's not like a problem, but let's say that's a problem. Right that people are saying come with me a day in the life of a trans dude. Do you think the solution is like come, just come with me with a day with madi, instead of labeling it like as a trans man? Or or do you think that audiences just have to understand that this is this person's specific experience?
Speaker 3:I mean, I don't know. I don't know what the solution to social media is you don't?
Speaker 1:That's so weird.
Speaker 3:I know Me, mark Zuckerberg, but famous trans man Mark Zuckerberg, push him. Anyway, I do think that, like, there is value to like I statements. This, I think, is a huge cultural difference in like the small, you know small amount of age that I am older than you is that I was really raised, especially in queer spaces, to like use I statements. I think this, like this is my experience statements, be like I think this, like I, this is my experience, and I feel like the culture of younger people is to be like this is what it's like to be a trans guy, or this is what it's like to be a sapphic. Here's like the doc of what it's like to be a sapphic and it's like that's not. I don't, I don't believe in that and um, yeah, we're all having totally different experiences and like it only at least for again for me.
Speaker 3:I have had to do a lot of work to just separate myself mentally from like seeing that stuff online, yeah, and just being like you know it's okay. Like, like okay, you know. I've been on testosterone for four and a half years. It'll be five years in November. I get read about 50-50, man or woman.
Speaker 3:when I go outside, I see a lot of like people's like transition timelines where they're like I'm like, this is me like two years on testosterone and they have like a full beard and I just have to be like, okay, that's not me, and like, just because that person is like that, that actually doesn't have anything to do with me.
Speaker 1:And it doesn't mean anything about me. I think people also forget how much genetics plays a role.
Speaker 2:I'm saying that because you mentioned, like the beard and everything Like I don't know the generalized statement video on tiktok just trends so well, you know people like all buy into it and so I think people keep. They feel like they must keep doing that sort of no. That's what the problem is, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's not like the individual creators. It's like what this like system that we're trapped in. You know I I posted a picture the other day, being like three months post-op, a picture of me with my shirt off. It's 4,000 likes on it I posted. You know I'm doing this show to like honor Cecilia Gentile, who is this beloved mother of the trans community in New York and a show I'm really proud to be a part of 300 likes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, and it's just like that's why, the system that we're in is encouraging me to like overshare, like my body yeah now I'm like comfortable. You know I chose to do that. Nobody like forced me with a gun to do that. But I am like why is this the thing that I have to do?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, you know, I felt so. I actually posted my chest for the first time the other day on social and it was like you know, four, it was like on a carousel like four pictures in it wasn't like the first one or anything and I felt I realized I felt so nervous to do it. I kept challenging myself like should I even do this? Like is it even important? And then I was like I'm proud of it so I want to show it. Also, I feel, like the people that do follow me maybe it's nice to see that I've had gender affirming surgery and I feel good about it and all the you know terrible things that happened that the right talk about. I feel like I have some sort of responsibility to be like this is a good thing and but at the same time, yeah, I still don't. I still don't know how I feel about it and what I want to do going forward with it.
Speaker 1:You know, I mean first time I posted my test on the internet.
Speaker 3:I got doxxed, so I know, and that's so funny, that's fucked up.
Speaker 1:I also got like so many likes and then I'm like trying to like promote a show the next, yeah, like it's, and it's like okay, um, no, of course that's fucked up, but it's.
Speaker 2:I mean, I laugh at it now because it was so ridiculous and because I whatever but yeah, are you both um taking, like, what is the dosage of and how are you taking testosterone?
Speaker 1:I. So I have a weekly shot and it's like it's weird the dose. So I do 2.5 in the syringe, but that I think that like translates to something else when you're talking about the actual dosage, because the dose is technically the bottle.
Speaker 3:I don't know.
Speaker 1:But I do. I pull to 2.5 in the syringe.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's just 0.25. 0.25, yeah, um, I also do 0.25 okay, cool see.
Speaker 2:I see mine's very different. But I I'm doing this very slow micro dose gel that I take every single night before bed and, uh, like rub it on my shoulder or behind my knee. And it's funny that you say that you haven't felt anything in your body yet, because I the first few weeks I was like I'm so I'm gonna like hump anything, I'm so horny and my body was raging and I was like sweating and I was just this like mess of a human, and then it just went away yeah, I'm just like pretty relaxed yeah I don't know where, if I've like peaked and it's, you know I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean listen, if I'm really reflecting and I'm gonna be really vulnerable here, I I, as soon as I said like oh, I'm not like, I'm not feeling that like 13 year old horniness. I think it's because I'm in a monogamous relationship, so I can't, I can't like um view it as like all these people I'm having sex with, but but we live together and I am realizing. I'm like every time I'm in the house and she's not, I am jacking off.
Speaker 3:I'm like okay, so maybe it is there, but like I have to measure that differently.
Speaker 1:Um so, like, maybe I am, but I, I thought, I really I thought I was gonna like feel like coursing through my veins, if that makes sense yeah, you just have to see or like the, the desire thing, the sexual orientation thing yeah.
Speaker 3:I was also in like a serious relationship with a cis woman when I started um, which I think just like mentally and emotionally, you know, that's where I was locked in yeah and then we broke up and I like went totally yeah I'm not saying that's gonna happen to you, that's just. Oh, don't worry, that's what happened I feel I feel very, feel, very secure.
Speaker 1:She's a little anxious about it. That I'm, that I'm gonna want to, like you know, explore, but I've explored. I hey, I've explored, but no, there were things that were like completely like bottom growth, a meat, like first week, immediately, um, this mustache which obviously like isn't full yet, but like immediate, immediate. I'm only 15 weeks in, um, and I was getting like hot flashes and sweating, but my sweat smell hasn't changed yet mine has actually yeah, you smell different for sure I smell.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, yeah, sure, maybe it's bad. I just did not smell or sweat before at all yeah, now I like sweat and I guess that creates a smell yeah which is weird and I feel like too. I'm having to like scrub in a way that I didn't have to scrub before to get clean and feel clean yeah but I don't know well, kyla, how long have you been doing?
Speaker 2:that the tea say like a year, but it's such small amounts, you know, so I don't know, I don't know, I need to like and like. Marty has a wonderful trans guy primary care physician and I do not he is trans. I do not, and mine is just you know uh, yeah, my PCP is just a cis woman that my testosterone was low anyway for a woman air quotes, and so that's why they gave it to me, and so I probably need to like start exploring.
Speaker 3:You know someone that actually knows what I should be taking and and help me like towards the, towards the transition so rarely do I get to be the the big boy, but I don't from like and this is exactly what I'm talking about from like. Looking at the three of us together, you wouldn't necessarily guess that, like, I'm the one who's been on testosterone for like a long time.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I don't know. I mean, you have a very resonant voice, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank, you and the mustache yeah can I? Just say, the mustache on netflix was so good, thank you I know you said you think they enhanced it uh, no, I asked them I mean I asked the makeup artist.
Speaker 3:I was like the first thing I'm gonna do is come out and make a joke about my mustache. So yeah, we have to make sure it's a big theater. They have to be able to see it from the back um looks great, thank you, thank you do you do that for your?
Speaker 1:will you do that, like before going out to an event or something? Will you fill it in or no is that for the professionals? I?
Speaker 3:I leave that to the pros, okay I had, um, I had an audition once for like a trans guy who's like, really big thing is that he's like stealth or whatever. He's stealth and he doesn't.
Speaker 2:You know, he doesn't identify as trans or whatever, and this was a few years ago, so I looked a little different but I was like, okay, I'm gonna fill in my mustache and it made me look so trans that I like was, like never mind, it has to go when you say stealth, as in like passes stealth is like when you, when you pass and you don't tell anybody got it okay, yeah, I was gonna say I don't think I want that. You know I.
Speaker 3:I worked with a guy once who I worked with him for like two years and then found out he was trans and I was like oh, my God, this whole time I thought you were nice.
Speaker 1:Did he act very much, he just was like a guy. Yeah, he just was like a regular guy.
Speaker 3:I was like you don't have green hair, Like no green hair.
Speaker 1:Septum piercing yeah, oh, I have noticed that you added red to your hair I did.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to masquerade as a fun person. You're a fun person, no I'm not, I disagree.
Speaker 1:I think you're a fun person.
Speaker 3:I think you're a cool person that's so cool and fun are opposites I disagree, which is not to say that I agree that I'm cool, but I do think that like cool and fun. Fun means you know, you're totally carefree and you have like no self-consciousness and you're dancing and like cool is like hey like yeah, okay, traditional it's not fun oh okay, but I don't think that I'm that cool either. I think I'm kind of, you know, watching golden girls at home yeah, okay, I will, I will.
Speaker 1:Okay, I won't make you uncomfortable. You're watching golden girls at home after like a month of like hosting all of the pride events and galas and red carpets and like yeah, that means I love to work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that is a job. I guess it means I'm working yeah, yeah, I work and then I go home and watch golden girls.
Speaker 1:Yes, I was gonna do an espresso riff, but I realized that I can't sing Sabrina Carpenter's songs anymore.
Speaker 3:I can't sing any songs I can't sing.
Speaker 1:Huh. When did that happen? I can't like. I'm working well, I'm not gonna hit it now, but it cracks. I went through a period where I couldn't sing anything at all, and then, it evened out again and I actually love to sing now well, I was like what if a miracle happens? I can't sing for shit, like like pre-tee. What if I get a really good singing voice?
Speaker 2:Really resonant and low and beautiful.
Speaker 1:Well, just like, and just not bad, like I can hit it, like I don't know anything about music theory or anything but the one example at home I'll sing Good Luck, babe, by Chapel Rowan, obviously, and it's like, and it doesn't come out of my mouth, mine is full like nasal.
Speaker 3:Good luck, babe. Like okay, but you cannot, you can let it go this way when she's singing like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good luck. Yeah, I guess I could if I manipulated it, um, fantastic. Well, we're gonna do a quick thing of advice. I wanted to open up the floor, jess, if you because we talked so much about you know our recent top surgeries and hrt and stuff if you have wisdom to impart on anybody that might be listening who's maybe considering these things or is new to these things or old. And then if you, I think it would be fun if you have, like, um, not so much wisdom. You know it's some bad advice or anything.
Speaker 3:I guess for advice I would say do your research, but then kind of put that stuff away. I also had feelings, you know, right after my surgery about my results and stuff I still have. We all still have feelings um, and I think that that's something people like don't talk about at all online and like there's a real narrative of like I looked at myself and now I feel whole and like everything's fine now and like, that's just not, it's not realistic.
Speaker 3:No, um, just because, like you're still like a person with a body in the world and I had to actively stop myself in my first month after healing from like looking at specifically other people's top surgery results Same, same and I had to. Something I want to say earlier was Instagram. Once it got wind that, like I had just gone through this thing, it started showing me like a ton of people's top surgery results, but they were all, first of all, were all white people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I had to literally be like not interested in this, not interested in this and like make it go away, because it was like making me crazy yeah to look at these other people's bodies and be like, well, I'm not this and that, or like I don't have this and that, when it's just like.
Speaker 3:You know, I'm my own person, you're my, your own person yeah and we're all just like having our own experiences and what a blessing it is to be able to have these experiences, but you can't like yeah, look at other people and like compare yourself directly to them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the weeks leading up before my surgery date, my entire explore page was like white dudes with healed scars and six packs and it like and whatever, and like shout out to them like that's amazing, but it was definitely, was like well, and then I started being like should I have like gotten really fit before my surgery so that I'll like like my body even more before? And I'm like, I like my body the way it is. It's like whatever. But I did get in my head about like should I have prepped my body totally or something like yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:But I remember taking a picture like that to my trainer and being like this guy's trans and how do I get his body. And my training was like this person is almost definitely on steroids. Has a very strict calorie deficit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's probably been doing it for 10 years.
Speaker 2:This is not who you should be comparing yourself to, but to your point. You see, the algorithm hits you with it hard.
Speaker 3:It's like it's trying to show you specifically things that are going to make you feel bad and it's like very shocking.
Speaker 1:And then it'll slap you with an ad for better help.
Speaker 3:Feeling bad. Yeah, very, yeah, shocking.
Speaker 1:And then it'll slap you with an ad for better help feeling bad. Yeah, you can talk to someone okay, so thank you, jess. Oh, thank you for having me so much I want to give a shout out. What do you have coming up? How can we support you? Buy tickets for things.
Speaker 3:Watch you, um, you can find me on instagram, at just the kid on elon musk's twitter, that's j-e-s-t-o-m and I'm doing, um, I'm doing the first week run of cecilia gentile's red ink, which we're doing to honor the late great cecilia gentile um and all the ticket sales are going to go to causes that she believed in amazing um so. So yeah, come out and see that at Rattlestick.
Speaker 1:Okay, and we can find info for that on your Instagram. Yeah, totally Okay, great.
Speaker 2:Do you have?
Speaker 1:anything coming up.
Speaker 2:Do you have anything fun? So for them, we've created a new product that's coming out. I'm very excited about it and, as always, we've made it with the community.
Speaker 1:They're brand new designs. We've created everything. I'm really pumped, jess, we're gonna gift you some yay, okay, great, I don't have anything to promo. Um, I'll be a good boy. Dolphin mode brit miggs solo show august 5th. The caveat I don't have any shows, brit shows, but my fantastic girlfriend has a solo.
Speaker 3:That's so, girlfriend guy, to plug your girlfriend's show. Yeah, that's so cute, that's a good boy, it's a well, it's a divorce and coming out story and I'm really proud of her.
Speaker 1:So that's so cute, that's a good boy. It's a divorce. Well, it's a divorce and coming out story, and I'm really proud of her. So that's what I'll plug while I don't have anything good boy um, thank you very much. Good boy kylo, good boy matthew, oh, we should.
Speaker 2:Good boy jess good boy jess, good boy jess. Thank you, bye.
