Episode 4: Surviving the Perimenopausal Storm: Communication Tips for Couples

Ever wondered how to navigate the emotional rollercoaster of perimenopause while keeping your relationship intact? Join Gabriella and me as we share our own stories of hormonal chaos and partner misunderstandings, making sense of how serotonin and oxytocin dips can rock the boat. You'll learn about the unique challenge of experiencing your sexual peak amidst these turbulent times, and we'll shed light on practical ways to foster patience and mutual understanding.

We also tackle the sensitivities that come with perimenopause and hormonal times in our lives, delving into the emotional toll and how to manage it without being labeled as "oversensitive." Listen in as we discuss the crucial role of sexual satisfaction and the often-misaligned sexual peaks between men and women. We offer actionable advice on how to maintain emotional balance, emphasising the importance of taking a moment to pause and breathe before reacting.

Finally, we confront the elephant in the room: the significant impact of sexual intimacy, or its absence, on relationships. From a man's perspective, we explore how the lack of sex can magnify other relationship issues, and highlight the physical and emotional challenges women face during perimenopause. We underscore the value of open communication and share strategies to reconnect. 

Tune in for tips on maintaining a supportive, understanding partnership during this transitional phase, and don't forget to check out my book, "The Uncomplicated Guide to Perimenopause," for more insights.

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:06

Welcome to the Uncomplicated Perimenopause Podcast.

Speaker 3: 0:10

I'm Kate Grosvenor, your friendly perimenopause expert and life coach, and I'm Gabriella Kate's daughter, representing all the women who are nowhere near perimenopause but want to understand it better.

Speaker 2: 0:23

Whether you're just starting your perimenopause journey deep into it, whether you're just starting your perimenopause journey deep into it, or you're a loved one trying to support someone who is, we've got you covered.

Speaker 3: 0:32

We'll be answering all of your burning questions, exploring the ups and downs and sharing expert advice and personal insights.

Speaker 2: 0:39

So grab a cup of tea, get comfy and let's dive into the wonderful, sometimes wild, world of perimenopause together.

Speaker 3: 0:47

And remember, no matter where you are on your journey, you are not alone.

Speaker 2: 0:51

Welcome to the Uncomplicated Perimenopause. Hello, my darlings, and welcome to episode four of the uncomplicated perimenopause podcast. I'm Kate Grosvenor, a perimenopause expert and life coach.

Speaker 3: 1:09

And I'm Gabriella Grosvenor, Kate's daughter, here to learn with you all.

Speaker 2: 1:12

So as always, my lovelies, gabriella's going to ask me one of your questions, as she does every week, of which I know nothing. So, my darling daughter, over to you, my darling daughter.

Speaker 3: 1:28

Well, it'd be rude if I went. Oi you bedhead.

Speaker 2: 1:29

What's going on, mate? Not a redhead anymore? No, you're not. Actually, we're both blonde. She's weird because I'm not a blonde either and I'm ginger. Actually, she is actually a ginger.

Speaker 3: 1:33

She came out like a carrot so if you make it sound like it's an infection, she came out ginger oh dear, we're off to a stonking start. Perfect, so hit me with it. This question is from Natalie. Hi Natalie. Natalie would like to know how she can communicate effectively with her partner about the changes she is experiencing during her menopause. He tries genuinely to understand her symptoms, but sometimes gets even more frustrated, gets it more wrong during the process. What can she do?

Speaker 2: 2:07

okay, this is actually, I think, one of the hardest parts of perimenopause, so you and I nearly fell out today. This is a true story, gabby. Gabby was trying to explain something to me and I was trying to explain something to her and sorry, gabby's on her period and I'm perimenopausal and I was trying to my best to explain something to you and I was feeling the rage right and I'm a really chilled human and Gabby is generally like a lovely, gorgeous human and my firstborn and you're on your period and we were like literally hormone to hormone butting heads yeah and then five minutes later she just started talking to me normally, because we know each other well enough to just go right, just separate corners, like ding ding, ding, ding, separate corners.

Speaker 2: 2:52

Guys, I was in the red corner, she was in the blue corner and we just ignored each other for five minutes and then I went I love you and she went, I love you too, and then we're just going to chill out. But the problem is that it's very, very difficult to talk to people about perimenopause. First and foremost, you are going to be extremely overwhelmed with your emotions. We become extremely oversensitive when we're in perimenopause, and I'm not saying I don't want this right. I don't want this to come across as if it's Natalie's fault. It absolutely isn't your fault, darling, but you are going to be hypersensitive. Meaning and there's many reasons for this First and foremost, the chemistry in your brain is altered. So we've talked about this before, but you won't have as much serotonin, because serotonin is produced in your gut. 90 to 95% is produced in your gut. In perimenopause, your gut can be off balance.

Speaker 2: 3:45

We talked about this, I think in episode one and episode I'm going to say three, because your gut is off balance. You might not be producing as much serotonin and serotonin is your feel-good hormone. You probably won't be producing as much oxytocin. Oxytocin is your cuddle hormone. So because you're less likely, your libidodle hormone, so because you're less like your libido's dropped and you're less likely to want sex, you're less like want to be touched. Yeah, you're less likely to want to be cuddled and held. You're less likely to get oxytocin so when you're in a loving, cuddly, intimate relationship.

Speaker 2: 4:18

Yeah, your brain gets flooded with this cuddly, feel-good hormone. You know what it's like when you're loved up, when you just can't stop touching and cuddling each other, and it feels so lovely, yeah, yeah, in perimenopause, like go away, leave me alone, do not touch me don't you feel, because when you're in perimenopause, you can also have periods?

Speaker 3: 4:38

yes obviously, and I don't know, but I think women on their periods usually get want to be touched a little bit more and cuddled a little bit more. So how do they go together when you're in the perimenopause where you're like, oh no, don't touch me. Good question.

Speaker 2: 4:56

Don't forget everything else that a perimenopausal woman's going through as well Lack of sleep, pure rage, hormones all over the place. I mean, yes, it could be that at the beginning. So a woman reaches her sexual peak in her early 40s. Really, oh god yeah oh yeah, baby.

Speaker 3: 5:16

So I'm now in my mid-20s? No, in it, no way not even close crazy.

Speaker 2: 5:21

At least there's something to look forward to. Okay, sorry so, it depends where you are in the perimenopause. Okay, but if you're at the point where you're actually like in the thick of it, which is like 45, 46, okay, well, I mean average yeah on average, average being a dangerous term but if you're at the point where you're like on your knees with it I've been off my head. Well, I've just got that image in my head of Fleabag where he goes. Neil, I've not watched Fleabag. Oh, what's wrong with?

Speaker 3: 5:54

you I know, I know, I'm sorry. My sisters have told me to watch it. I know, I know.

Speaker 2: 5:59

Andrew Scott, the hot vicar no.

Speaker 3: 6:04

I know, no, I know, no, I know.

Speaker 2: 6:07

Sorry, that's one to educate you with, anywho. So if you're not getting oxytocin, which is the cuddle hormone, you're not getting serotonin. If you're very tired and you're not exercising because you just feel like you're an exhausted pigeon flapping around going on a diet, you might not be getting endorphins. Then if you don't feel like you're achieving or you're successful in life you're not getting things ticked off your to-do list you might not getting dopamine hits yeah so you've, all these lovely feel-good hormones are suddenly missing in your life, so that's alters the chemistry of your brain massively.

Speaker 2: 6:40

Then if your sleep is altered you're not getting enough sleep then you're going to be massively oversensitive. You know it's like when you don't sleep you feel oversensitive, you feel overwhelmed. Yeah, then if you add to that just feelings of loneliness and dead inside and just like your life isn't what it used to be, that adds to it. So all of these things add up, yeah, and you what happens? So what actually happens is you feel very overwhelmed, very kind of distraught, and then you have somebody who's trying to understand what's wrong with you and you don't understand yourself, because this is the first time you've been through paramenopause. Yeah, so you're trying desperately to understand it and the other person's thing, but I don't get it. Yeah, you know, when some you're trying to explain something to someone, yeah, and the other person goes, yeah, but I don't get it, and you're like, well, we'll try, I try, yeah, and then so it's.

Speaker 2: 7:38

It's very, very difficult. So you're going to be feeling very sensitive and it's going to be a sore subject. Yeah, straight away, because you're going to be feeling very sensitive and it's going to be a sore subject straight away because you're feeling very hypersensitive. So that's the first thing. That's where communication is difficult. Conversations about perimenopause have conversations when, as much as you possibly can, you're not feeling overwhelmingly tired if I know that's hard in perimenopause but but when you're feeling sunday afternoon you've not just come back from work and you've not got screaming kids, I don't know how old the kids are, you're?

Speaker 2: 8:24

not trying to fit in a conversation between two other things. It's when you and your partner have got time on your own without trying to squeeze in something else. So if he's trying to have conversations with you when you're busy doing something else, like you're trying to finish a project at work or you're trying to clean up dog poop or something, do you know what I mean? Yeah, say to that person I'd love to have a conversation with you about this, because I really I'm really appreciative.

Speaker 2: 8:52

Yeah, you're trying to understand me so it's just changing the way you explain it goes a long way when you say to somebody I'm really grateful that you're trying to understand, yeah, but can we have this conversation and give them an appointment? Yeah, okay, so you're saying it's really great, I'm really appreciating that you want this conversation with me, but let's have this conversation and give them an appointment, because then they're not feeling like you're trying to push them away and sometimes what that person will then go and do is research in preparation for this talk. You know where to look? Yeah, I haven't got a copy of my book here. That's ridiculous. I'll put it into the show notes.

Speaker 2: 9:31

I meant the podcast. Oh yeah, true story. So that's one thing. So making a point with them, so that's so. The first thing is bear in mind that you're going to be oversensitive, so try and breathe. So when you feel, when you feel the rage, as I call it, that's quite normal you are oversensitive. I mean, you don't have to tell them that, because it's our little secret oh yeah, don't, don't, don't tell them like I, I had three children I still have.

Speaker 3: 9:57

I was gonna say you've got three children and they live with me all the time.

Speaker 2: 10:01

Help. No, I have three children, love them, love them, can't live without them. But I I denied in all three pregnancies that I was mad as a box of rocks. I will deny all knowledge because they will never watch this podcast. Their fathers will never watch this podcast. No, but I was. I was absolutely. I was screw loose. I don't suit. Pregnancy Doesn't suit me. Also, I had pre-eclampsia, so I was really poorly.

Speaker 3: 10:25

All three times Sad face. You're a soldier for that.

Speaker 2: 10:29

I honestly, really sad face. You're a soldier, for that. I honestly really are, trooper, trooper. You wouldn't think that I'd do it three times voluntarily, no, no. But anyway, you don't have to tell them that you're oversensitive, because men sometimes will then take that as then they kind of almost use that against you. Oh, it's just because you're oversensitive, yeah, and it's an excuse. Sometimes then, when they are being insensitive, they will then take your, take your reaction as oh well, you're just being oversensitive.

Speaker 2: 10:56

Well, no, actually you're the one that's being insensitive so you don't have to explain to someone in advance that you're oversensitive, but in your head I just want you to understand I am oversensitive and I need to soothe myself. So it's understanding that I'm. If you are going to be obsessive, so before you start letting that rage build up, it's just saying to yourself okay, just breathe for a second. So listen before reacting, and just breathe for a second and that will do you the world of good. So just pause. It's that micro pause before reacting. That actually does you really so much good.

Speaker 2: 11:31

So one of the things that I know to be true from I've been I've been a life coach for many, many, many years and unfortunately, if there is very little to no sex in a marriage or a relationship, it becomes 90% of the problems in that relationship 90. I promise you, if you have a relationship where both partners are satisfied with the sex life and they both feel like this is we both agree, this is about the kind of sex life we want. Where some men don't have a high libido, it is more common. No, truly, okay, it's unusual, okay, yeah, in most situations not all, not all, but in most relationships the man quite often will have a higher libido than the woman in most, not all, bear in mind men reach their sexual peak at 19. Yeah, women reach the sexual peak at 20, at 40 so does the when you're 40 as a woman?

Speaker 3: 12:34

does it match their sexual peak, or are we then higher than them? Or just there it's all over the place you just know what I've got to.

Speaker 2: 12:42

To look forward to gabby's like, take that um, don't go around knocking on your ex-boyfriend's door at 40 going I see?

Speaker 2: 12:50

No, don't go about that, darling. Anywho, the thing is that. So if there is no or little sex too little sex in the man's opinion in a relationship, it becomes 90% of the issues. Yeah, even if the fight isn't about that, it can lead to the biggest frustration in their relationship. It's the underlying current. It's the biggest frustration in their relationship. It's the underlying current. It's the underlying anger in the relationship. If the relationship is considered to be a healthy amount of sexual intimacy, it's only 10% of the relationship. Are you with me? So it's either 10% of the relationship or it's 90% of the problem. Are you with me? Okay? Because it becomes much, a much more of a bigger, magnified issue when it's absent yeah when it's there and it's not talked about.

Speaker 3: 13:42

You wouldn't know that. That's where the frustration is coming in. Are you with me? So it?

Speaker 2: 13:45

becomes a bigger problem. When there isn't, then it's not a bigger as bigger part of a relationship. When it's there, then it's a problem. When it's absent, yeah, so what do you do? I think very much, so it's really important to tell it how it is.

Speaker 2: 14:01

So sometimes, when we don't want to have sexual relationships because women in perimenopause will feel very alien inside their own bodies. So for a lot of women in the perimenopause, you feel dead inside. It's sad, it is very sad, darling. It is very sad because things that used to make you happy you're like meh. And this is the first year. We're in 2024 as we record this video, and this is the first year that there has been a research paper where, I think, is a clinical psychologist and doctors in psychology have actually, for the first year, produced a paper that shows the relationship between mental health and feeling dead inside and perimenopause menopause. Oh, and we're in 2024 and 51 of the population go through the menopause and have done since the beginning of time. Why? Because we haven't been talking about it why haven't we been talking?

Speaker 3: 15:00

well, this is the whole podcast.

Speaker 2: 15:04

This is what we talk about every week. So it's it is a big issue, feeling dead inside and, and because of that feeling that we have, we tend to want to hide away. We tend to want to become invisible or hide away or scream on top of a mountain, or just like I call it, the rage. You go one of two ways you either want to rage about it or you want to become invisible. Okay. Neither of which is kind of like lending itself to sexy time yeah as you can, imagine.

Speaker 2: 15:36

Of course so we tend a lot for a lot of women. We want to push our partners away. Now Natalie is very lovingly saying I want to make him understand which is the the major step. Nat, nat, I'm like, I know you, so that's great news that he genuinely and he genuinely wants to try.

Speaker 2: 15:55

So what I would say to you is start with the fact that he will be feeling on the outside of this, although you already feel like you're in your alien body. The first thing to make him understand is everything that he's probably been through before in his body. He has either been through before or he knows someone that's been through it before. So he, if he's had appendicitis, he knows somebody's had appendicitis he's had. He gets a cold. He's had a cold before yeah he broke his leg.

Speaker 2: 16:26

He knows somebody's broken his leg. Yeah, with perimenopause nobody talks about it. Your mother never talked to you about it. You didn't know what's coming. It's like you, my mother did yeah, literally, but it's like you get side swiped. It's like you're driving a car and somebody somebody comes along and and and side swipes you and we don't know this we haven't had this experience, nobody's been telling us about it.

Speaker 2: 16:46

So the first thing to understand for them, for men, is I wasn't expecting this. Okay, nobody told me this was coming. So that's the first thing to understand for men is I wasn't expecting this.

Speaker 3: 16:51

Nobody told me this was coming, so that's the first thing to make a man understand.

Speaker 2: 16:55

So they don't think that we've been keeping a secret that you know, it's like a dirty little secret that we didn't tell them. That's number one. Number two is there are many perimenopause symptoms. If you want to download my free tracker, I'll put it into the show notes. It's like so far I've kind of identified, 117 actually 118.

Speaker 2: 17:16

I need to update it and you've got another one. I know it was another one that I was talking. Yeah, long story, but a lot of symptoms that you could have. You don't get all of them, but there's so many different symptoms that can affect you because of the lack, the changes in oestrogen and progesterone and testosterone and what that does to your body and it is a big deal. It is a big deal what this does to you. You lose all of these hormones. You have oestrogen receptor cells all over your body. All over your body has oestrogen receptor cells. So your eyes change, your your hair changes, your skin changes, all your organ changes, every single part of your body will change.

Speaker 2: 17:55

So my girls are always like well, what's the good news? So Jenna was saying to me last night do you know? This is a conversation, seriously super drug. After school yesterday I said I'm going to go get some nail polish, jenna the 17 year old, so do your nails get weaker as well? Yes, darling, unfortunately they don. Yes, darling, unfortunately.

Speaker 2: 18:15

Oh, perimenopause sucks and I was like because every time she asked me a question, I give her an honest answer and then she just tells me how much it sucks. Fair, she's not wrong. No, she's not wrong, really, is she? So it's having that honesty and and being real and saying I don't really know that much about it myself. Another thing to think about is having a relationship with him that can still be intimate, but without being honest about the level of intimacy that you would like. Okay, yeah. So men sometimes feel like you don't want to be near me anymore, sometimes feel like you don't want to be near me anymore. So, as a woman, if we don't want sexual intercourse, we are scared to touch men because we fear that if we touch a man, he's going to want sex ah, okay and for some reason men think it's funny to kind of like go up behind us in when we're loading the dishwasher, and I don't know why they think that.

Speaker 2: 19:11

Anyway, it's all ages of men all ages of men all ages of men and it's just like I'm trying to load the dishwasher can you leave me be? And for many women, we're afraid to touch a man because we'll feel like if I touch him he will feel like getting lucky tonight, mate, and that scares us if we then think that I can't and I'm going to lead him on. Yeah, and I'm not at that point.

Speaker 3: 19:36

I can't do that because my body feels alien and I'm not there yeah, and you see all the stereotypes on social media where it's like men say oh women, what's the excuse going to be tonight? Yeah, I'm not feeling this.

Speaker 2: 19:47

I'm washing my hair.

Speaker 2: 19:48

I've got a headache, all that, and they make fun of it and they take it personally, because it is personal to them, because they feel rejected. Yeah, so one of the one of the things I would highly recommend is having a conversation that says I would love to be honest with you and that men still want to be touched. Because everybody needs to be touched, everybody needs to be hugged, everyone needs to have their back rubbed. Yeah, everyone needs to have their hand held, have a cuddle. But it's having a really honest conversation that says I want it to be go up to that point. So can I have a cuddle? That's just a cuddle. Yeah, okay, can I have a cuddle and a kiss? Can I have a cuddle and a?

Speaker 2: 20:34

I mean, I don't think we need to have an x-rated podcast because I think I'd have to tick some more buttons. Actually, you know what we mean. Um, that was funny, but you know what I mean. So that you have to define the parameters, if you can. That says is it okay if I tell you what I'm comfortable with? Because and he will say yes, absolutely, I'm pretty sure he will yeah, because if he feels like there'll never be any more love between us, especially if he is a demonstrative, because there's different types of love yeah, you mean, we know, don't we, about the different types of love and how people show their love. So I'm love languages.

Speaker 3: 21:15

Yeah, what's yours? What do you like to give and receive? Come on words of affirmation.

Speaker 2: 21:21

Thank you that's what you give out.

Speaker 3: 21:23

What do you want to receive back?

Speaker 2: 21:24

what you give out is what you want. That marks the service, I think and what do you do for somebody when they're poorly? What's the first thing you offer to do when somebody's not well? Make them a cup of tea. Yeah, she's like, would you? Oh, you're not well, what can I do for you? Would you like a cup of tea? Always? Cup of tea fixes everything because that's what you want people to do for you when you're not feeling well, or we get your hot water bottle, true, or you want someone to just give you a blankie or something.

Speaker 2: 21:50

Yeah, that's who. What we give is what we want, and that's just a side note but acts a different time. If you haven't ever read the seven, is it five love languages? It's a really good book, by the way, and it helps you to understand your partner a bit better because you can identify what type of love language they have, because what they, what they give out, is what they actually want. So it's really, really helpful. But I'm words of affirmation, I'm a big cheerleader for everybody, I'm a life coach, so I mean kind of goes with the territory. But just saying to them is that okay? Is it okay if I tell you what I'm comfortable with and it might change on a daily basis. Sometimes I love to just curl up on my partner and just have a really big cuddle and sometimes I'm like I will stab you in the eye if you breathe. Stop breathing. Your very existence is an annoyance on a scale that you cannot possibly imagine. Don't breathe, because I'm in rage.

Speaker 3: 22:46

So I can understand actually then, why men do get a bit.

Speaker 2: 22:49

Yeah, you know, because they don't know, yeah, where we are. But if we're, if we're constantly like, beware, be gone, evil one, because we're feeling like, yeah, I don't want to have sex, but actually I'd love a cuddle, because I feel really sad. It's still intimacy, just different. But this is a thing. And their fear is will never be loved. You know, I'll never be loved again, she'll never cuddle me again, she doesn't want anything to do with me and actually you can break your relationship now. The truth of the matter is you will go through this journey and you can mostly, mostly get through to the other side and reconnect, you know, with your partner, and there are things that you can do. So, for example, some women start taking HRT.

Speaker 2: 23:44

I talked about this in the episode. Somebody said they'd lost their libido and I was saying well, if you've lost your libido, there's certain things that you could do. Go back and watch the episodes and you'll find it, and so you can help your libido. If that's the issue, which it usually is with men, that's what they're trying to understand, like why won't you come near me? To be fair, that's usually the thing. Yeah, so you can. You can help your libido and you can get it back, and it can be instantaneous just one.

Speaker 3: 24:09

oh, I feel all right again.

Speaker 2: 24:10

Hello, and that's it, and you'll feel better For some rare, but it can happen Others it just creeps back slowly and it could be you feel like you've got your libido back for yourself, but you don't want to give it to somebody else. I'm not sure I want to spell this one out to my daughter. You may feel like in yourself yourself you feel more sexual again, but you don't feel sexual towards your partner and slowly you might feel more open to sexual encounters. Okay, so there is that thing. The other thing is to talk about is tiredness, because perimenopause and this is really important, because the lack of wanting to join in things and the lack of energy is a really big thing as well there's things that natalie will have felt inclined to want to do in her life and be around in her life that now she's just like oh, piss off, piss all the way off, piss so far off, jump off, piss off mountain. Do you know that?

Speaker 2: 25:11

yeah, she would have tolerated okay, especially if they've got some hobbies that are really annoying what's an annoying hobby I don't know football that is yeah and for me, for me, especially during the matches going on these days.

Speaker 2: 25:26

Oh my god, it's all they can talk about and do you know, like I mean, it's not tennis, is it? No? So there might be some things that you just could tolerate, but because you're overly sensitive and you might just not be in the mood anymore, so it's it's explained to them that your tolerance levels are down, as well as just you know other things, that your tolerance levels are down and you're extremely tired because your sleep is disturbed. You do need to sleep more in perimenopause. It's actually a thing. You're less likely to get deeper sleep if you're bothered by things like the vasomotor symptoms and night sweats. You may be more likely to get up in the night. For pee highly recommend my book at this point, by the way, the uncomplicated guide to perimenopause, because all of these things there's really good things that you can do at home to help yourself.

Speaker 3: 26:14

So it's a good read, for the men as well to read it yeah, I mean it's a good.

Speaker 2: 26:18

It is a good read for men because they can look up symptoms, that there's a handy bibliography at the back so they can literally go and look up symptoms and know how they can help you. That's really good how they can help yeah, there's natural remedies in there as well as doctor remedies, as well as things like when they can get you different supplements and hot water bottles. So it was like, almost like they can join in.

Speaker 2: 26:40

Yeah, and it has a bibliography, yeah so they can look up headaches and go okay, I can get headaches and that neither. Yeah, so the book is actually a really good idea. Yeah, available from amazon and other retail outlets coming to a store near you.

Speaker 3: 26:54

Actually no, not really, but you can buy it on our website. It's not.

Speaker 2: 26:57

It's got a special offer on at the moment, this weekend. So what else can you do? So tithers is a thing, lack of tolerance is also a thing, and just lack of interest in general about life. But, as I said, make sure that you know that you're overly sensitive, make sure that you know that, pick a time to do these things, and I think that's the best advice that I can really give. So I hope that helps. I hope we've answered your questions, my darling, as always. If you've got any questions for us, please feel free to use the whatsapp number below or pop into our perimenopause group and leave it for us there. Tune in next week. We'll be answering more of your questions and give us a follow so that you don't miss an episode. Thank you, thanks, guys. Thanks for joining us today on the uncomplicated perimenopause podcast.

Speaker 3: 27:49

We hope you found this episode helpful and inspiring, don't forget if you have any questions or topics you'd like us to cover, you can reach out through our perimenopause group or on whatsapp for more information on my coaching, perimenopause supplements, books or upcoming events, please visit wwwkatebrovenercom and if you've enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe, rate and review our podcast. It really helps us reach more listeners, just like you, until next time.

Speaker 2: 28:18

Remember, perimenopause doesn't have to be complicated. We're here to help you every step of the way stay uncomplicated.

Speaker 3: 28:26

Bye, bye, I'm late. Bye, bye, been looking for a.