Leadership In Law Podcast

03 Using the Platinum Rule to Close 50% More Revenue with Nancy Zare

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 1 • Episode 3

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Unlock the secrets to mastering client acquisition and retention in the legal field with Nancy Zare, the innovative mind behind the AlikeAbility System. Discover how aligning with your prospects' values can transform them into loyal clients, and understand the crucial balance between networking and legal work. Through Nancy's expertise, you'll learn the five-step system to identifying personality styles and decision-making timelines, all while adopting the Platinum rule of treating others the way they want to be treated.

In our conversation, Nancy dives into the various personality traits of individuals and how these traits shape their reception to different marketing strategies. From methodical thinkers to social butterflies, Nancy provides actionable advice on crafting visibility and credibility tactics tailored to each personality. Hear her journey from psychologist to sales expert and gain insights into personalized sales techniques that drive law firm growth. 

Plus, enjoy a heartwarming anecdote about fostering a Yorkshire Terrier and get recommendations for further resources to bolster your legal marketing prowess. Don't miss out on Nancy's invaluable wisdom to elevate your practice!

Connect with Nancy Zare on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancyzare/
Take her ALikeability Assessment: https://nancyzare.com/alikeability-assessment/
Nancy's Books: https://nancybooks.link/


Get a FREE copy of "The Ultimate Online Marketing Checklist for Law Firms" at
https://lawmarketingzone.com/ultimate-checklist

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins
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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. I'm your host, marilyn Jenkins, and I'm super excited to welcome my guest today, nancy Zare, creator of the Alike Ability System. Nancy Zare, phd, shows professional business owners how to turn 50% of their prospects into clients. I'm super excited to hear about that. She earned her master's and doctorate from Boston College and authored seven books, including an Amazon International bestseller. She resides in South Florida, is a student of spirituality and recovery and volunteers as a foster family for the Farm Dog Rescue, which I love. And your secret desire is to go racing on the Ottawa. I love it. I love it. So, nancy, let's talk about rainmaking. Let's talk about rainmaking especially for attorneys, because some attorneys love it. That's exciting to them and they're out there all the time and the majority of attorneys not so much Marilyn. They do whatever they can to avoid it because they'd rather be with the law books and they'd rather be writing briefs and doing something other than networking and rainmaking. Exactly, exactly. That's always the sales part of something they're not taught in law school.

Speaker 2:

You know, most professionals are not taught marketing and sales, even though the expectation is that a large group, perhaps as much as a third of the class, will actually be starting their own practice. Okay, or at some point in the near future they do. Right, not immediately, like you say. At some point in their career they decide that they'd rather go out on their own. Excellent, I absolutely agree. And that's where they run into. You know, the ones who do network get the cases and the sales go down because they quit networking and it just becomes this wide array of revenue not really steady. So how can your likability system help with that? How do you help them with that? So the likability system and that's like with an A in front of it, and I coined the word, so, with your permission, I'm going to define it it's a skill that raises the feelings, the thoughts, a perception within the other person, usually your prospect, or it could be a referral partner, another attorney. It's a skill that raises the perception that we're alike, that you get me, we're on the same page, that what you're saying and doing aligns with my values. Hence I feel comfortable and I feel like we're alike. So the accountability system has five steps to it and it's based on the platinum rule. Now, marilyn, you know the golden rule, am I correct? Yes, treat others the way I want to be treated. The platinum rule is treat others the way they want to be treated. That subtle difference makes all the difference. And so I'm going to stop and ask you, because I usually love interacting with an audience You're my audience right now, the listeners are too, but I can't see with an audience. You're my audience right now, the listeners are too, but I can't see and hear what you're going to say. But tell me what would be the value or the benefit of practicing the platinum rules of treating other people the way they want to be treated? Well, I guess that way you get on more of the same page and you're treating them with respect. I find that many times, people don't treat each other with respect and, especially in this remote world, keyboard warriors abound. I love what you said about treating people with respect, because, absolutely, that's probably a major tenant for you, for me and for our listener, because we do want to connect with people in an authentic way and treat them respectfully. After all, that's why you trained and got your law degree was to honor and protect them to the best of your ability when it comes to dealings in the world.

Speaker 2:

So the electability system is based on the platinum rule and there are five steps to it. Step number one is to identify the fact that there are four distinct personality styles, and maybe some of you are already aware of the fact that there are four styles. Perhaps you've heard of DISC or maybe you know Myers-Briggs. There's also colors, animals, words that describe these four styles. In fact, there are 200 personality systems that identify the four styles.

Speaker 2:

After 35 years of research not entirely my own I have developed numbers that represent these four styles, and the numbers are associated with how many contacts it takes before someone can make a buying decision. And so the four styles are number two they make their decision in one or two contacts. Four this is the person who's pretty quick. They'll make up their minds in two or three contacts, but they need an additional one plus one, hence four, in order to cement and feel positive about their decision. The number six buyer is our average buyer, because 70% of sales happen after six touch points. And then we have the number eight buyer. This person, if you turn the eight on its side, it's the symbol for infinity. So this person starts with eight and they can go for many contacts after that because they want to research and they want to get information and statistics and the value and so forth. So those are the four styles and let me just stop there and make sure that you know I'm headed in the right direction.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, and you know, of course, being in marketing, one of the things that you learn is people. Most people don't make a buying decision until after seven to nine touches, and this you know. With as many marketing messages as we see every single day, that number could be even higher. You're absolutely right, because digital contacts are not the same as real-time contact, and by real-time contacts I mean Marilyn and I right now are in real-time talking with each other. So if she doesn't understand something or I have a question, we can dialogue back and forth and figure it out in real time. But if we were sending text messages or emails or we left voice messages for each other on our phone, there's going to be a time delay and she won't know, and I won't know when the other person actually got the message, whether they got the message, and then, of course, their response may be delayed and because of that. Digital marketing is much more, you know, drawn out, and you need many more contacts than if you had real-time contact. So you're right, this is what I'm saying applies to marketing as well as to sales.

Speaker 2:

So two, four, six and eight those are the four buying styles. Okay, and here we go. Yes, please do. I was going to ask you to continue. Okay, good, you know, good enough.

Speaker 2:

So that was step one four styles. Step two you need to know your style. And why is that important? Because we tend to sell the way we buy. Now, I know attorneys don't think of themselves as selling, when rainmakers don't think of themselves as salespeople. However, we are influencing and, by the way, that's a definition for selling to influence. We are influencing people all the time and, of course, when you are standing up and talking to another person, especially on a legal matter, you're trying to persuade and you are absolutely trying to influence what they think about the legal matter at hand. Hence, you are selling. Even when we talk to our significant other or our children or members of the family and we're making a request, you are influencing them. So you tend to sell the way you buy.

Speaker 2:

So, if you're slow at making up your mind and you need a lot of research and a lot of data, then you're assuming that the other person, your prospect, needs the same amount of attention. But this is the mistake, marilyn. We project our style onto the other person. Remember, there are four styles. We're a combination of all four, just in a mixture of different amounts, and so by projecting our style, we're actually only going to connect with people maybe one out of four times, and that means 75% of the time we're mismatched and we're not speaking the language of our prospect.

Speaker 2:

So circle back to the platinum rule treat others the way I want to be treated or not the way I want to be treated, or not the way I want to be treated, the way they want to be treated. Hence I need to change what I say in order to connect authentically with that other person, and if I need a lot of information but the other person doesn't, then I need to rein that in and hence, you know, curb my tendency to be a blabbermouth. Well, do you? Okay? So all right, I get that. So not everybody is is going to be in the buying process like I would. How do you what? What stages I mean? Obviously we're only on step two or five, but how do I make sure I speak to them in the way that they want to be spoken to when it comes to the message?

Speaker 2:

Well, that gets into steps three and four. So step three is to be able to diagnose the other person's style and to do so as quickly as possible. My clients learn how to do this in a split minute, quick minute, and it really is something that you can do even before you have a conversation with that prospect or maybe a fellow attorney, and that's by looking people up on social media, because how they post on social media, their photo on poster media, on social media, all of this conveys their style, and so I can teach you very quickly how to read someone's style by looking at their social media or their website. So step three is to diagnose, and step four now is, when you know what their style is, to shift what you say to match the style. Now, remember the platinum rule we want to talk their language, but we have to do it authentically.

Speaker 2:

Marilyn, each of these four styles have a bucket of values associated with the style, so let me go back to 2, 4, 6, and 8 and think about the number two buyer for a moment. This is the person who is making up their mind in one, maybe two contacts. They're fast, they're quick decision makers, they're action takers, they want things done. They're results oriented. Now, do you get a feeling for that person in terms of values? They're results-oriented. Now do you get a feeling for that person in terms of values? They're taking action, they're going, going, going.

Speaker 2:

As opposed to our number eights Remember, this is our slowest person in making up their mind. They're very careful, very studious, gathering information, very different styles. Hence, we need to use the words and we need to use the approach that matches that person's style. So that's where steps three and four come in Diagnose the style and then shift ourselves to speak the language of the prospect. And the last step is actually a little bit I hinted in step two, which is you know your style. It's a double-edged sword. It cuts both ways. It's an advantage to know your style so that you can use it, you know, in a way that benefits you and the prospect, but you also have to rein it in. If you and the prospect are different styles, does all that make sense? It does, it does.

Speaker 2:

Now, do you find that, say, the people that are post more socially. Are they more of an eight or more of a two? Good question, because the most social of the styles is the number four. They are what you might think of as a chatty Cathy. They are gregarious and they like people and they like people and they like causes. And you know they're gushy, they're warm, they're friendly. This is the person for whom social media was invented. I mean, they love it. They're on all the platforms and they're exchanging information.

Speaker 2:

And if you're a number six and a lot of attorneys have a great amount of the number six style, which is more reserved, more formal, more orderly and methodical, there's a process in place. This gushy person who was, you know, just dripping with friendship, is like well, wait a second. We haven't been formally introduced and there's a kind of natural distance. Now, number sixes are very pleasant. They're very personable in terms of, you know, wanting to do the right thing and follow rules, but they dislike that kind of informality that comes with the number four. So does that? The person who is most social is your number four?

Speaker 2:

Secondarily, you're going to find the number two, and the reason for that is they want the attention, they want you to take notice of them. They're kind of a peacock, they are your rainmaker, and think about typical lawyers who are rainmakers. They're out in the golf course, you know shooting the breeze and having a good time and you know enjoying the company of others. So they've got that kind of charisma going on. Well, they like to be social and they like to have. Especially, they like you to take notice of them. Your six is the one that is on social media because it's required, it's a good business strategy for them to follow. And the number eight, no, they're not social, they're intellectual and they don't like that social chit-chat. So they are on social media for purposes of being a thought leader, conveying ideas and concepts, but not so much to be social and engage and create relationships. So those are the differentiations of our four styles. It's interesting I mean, as you're saying, that I'm picking people going yep, that's an eight, yep, that's a six. So you do see that.

Speaker 2:

It's hurting right, because you work extensively with legal firms. So most legal firms are very strong number six style, very strong number six style, even if the employees or the personnel are not. Definitely, the law firm has got to follow the rules and be very structured and very orderly and hence, when they hire you, marilyn, to help them with their visibility and credibility, you're going to find that that's the kind of firm that you're talking with and that you need to present them in that style where they're going to feel very missed. Yes, yes, and it helps with knowing those numbers. It also helps with the messaging and what they would be willing to, because one of the things that we suggest is doing no like and trust videos for your audience, and there are some that you cannot, they will not, it's just never going to happen, and then we have some of those clients that are happy to do it. So it is interesting seeing the different personality types. So, for that number eight, who is very uncomfortable being social, you might recommend that the video not be the video of them. Maybe use their voice, perhaps have a photo and then have some video background material in which they're narrating, and that might be a way again, because even just listening to someone's voice allows the audience, allows your prospect to think about whether they would feel comfortable in your company. Because, honestly, there are a lot of attorneys out there and you know if you go, if you're in a big office building, there's probably other attorneys within that office building. If you're in some sort of industrial park and you have an office guess what? There are other offices. Hence, your consumer, you know your prospect has many choices and they're not choosing you just because they're choosing you, because there is a stylistically. They made a connection, they want legal representation, they want your help. They assume you're confident. So that isn't the issue. The issue really is whether this is a comfortable situation and whether I'm going to get my needs met in that way. Okay, yeah, that makes total sense. So I like the idea of at least doing the audio, because I found what tends to make people more comfortable is to do an interview style. So one of the things we do is like FAQs. Every business has customers that always ask the same questions, right. So we did a setup with a client where someone off camera asked her the questions and she would reiterate the question and answer it, so we could cut those into small videos. Same process, I would think, is just taking the audio and then put whatever types of images over that, and they don't have to be on camera if that's uncomfortable. Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 2:

And so, as I told you, the foster dog was going to people. Did you hear? I foster dog? I put one in my care for the last four days. It's a Yorkshire Terrier and if you know anything about terriers, they've got a mind of their own, and this one. Unfortunately, their owner is gravely ill, which is the reason why I have stepped in to foster the animal until we find a permanent home. But I can't predict the barking. Any noise sets her off, no problem. No problem, they're always lovely to have around anyway.

Speaker 2:

And that's a great thing that you're doing for giving her a stable home until she finds something else. Yeah, that's great, right, right. So what would you think, what would be your best, say, the next step? Someone has to get involved with the eligibility and understand more. What would be, what would you suggest would be the next step? So I know that most lawyers are readers, and so I published a number of books I also have my latest book is actually on Audible, which, for those of you who do any significant you know, commuting in your car or maybe you're at the gym it's easy to download and listen to that one.

Speaker 2:

It's called Stop Selling, start Relating, or there are print books that you can order. I'd recommend Compelling Selling, and again, you can find my books at nancybooksly. Okay, all right, excellent. So again, I mean that makes a lot of sense. I like the idea of getting to know if we can learn how to find out what type of person you're talking to very quickly. And then also, does that relate to no-shows or that sort of thing? Yeah, in fact, do we have time for a quick story?

Speaker 2:

Sure, like to share a story about one of my clients who had received a referral from a fellow attorney. Now she did divorce, family law and taxation. She had a master's degree in taxation, so she was really very smart in that area. And she was referred to this entrepreneur whose wife was suing him for divorce. He owned more than one business and she was a perfect individual to represent him and protect his rights. However, in talking with him, she did not read his personality style. Now he was the number two buyer, quick, decisive action taker. He wanted to win. He wanted to beat his wife to a pulp I mean not physically, but he wanted to win the divorce and protect his financial assets. But instead of receiving messages about how he would triumph, he was given messages I'm going to take care of you, I'm going to guide you through the process, I'm going to you know, support you. Very comfortable number four type statement which showed that psychologically, she was concerned for his well-being. He didn't want that. He wanted to compete and he wanted to win. She lost that client. In other words, he never did hire her after the consultation and that's what prompted her to talk to me. And after talking to me, she recognized that she needed to change her language to suit the prospect. Well, how was she going to figure that out? Some quick tips I gave her and I want to share them now with your listeners and, by the way, I have not shared them ever before. So if you've got paper and pencil, take note and the quick tip that. She excuse me.

Speaker 2:

She worked in a small law firm that had a receptionist and when the person arrived, all the receptionist had to do was make note, say it was, you know, a high noon appointment. Well, did the person come at 10 minutes before the hour, five minutes before the hour at the hour or late? Now, you think this is kind of silly, but actually it was. It revealed the person's style, because the person who comes early is that number six person. The person who comes on time is often that number eight style. The person who comes late is your number four and your number two style.

Speaker 2:

Now, the number four will come late and they'll be all apologetic. I'm so sorry. Why? Because they don't want to inconvenience people. Remember, they're very connected to people and they want you to like them, etc. So they will tell you how they were waylaid maybe letting the school bus pass, or you know. Whatever the reason was, the number two comes late and they don't have any apology, it's all about me. I'm here Now things can be in. Have any apology, it's all about me. I'm here Now, things can be in.

Speaker 2:

Just that little bit of information helped her understand who that buying style was and therefore to adapt and adjust what she said to match their style. And she never, never, had another situation like that again. Wow, that is excellent advice. I never thought it being as simple as when they showed up, because we all have that one friend that we know that's never on time for anything and always profusely apologizes. Well, that is your number four. And when they don't apologize and they walk in arrogantly, now you know it's the number two. I love it. I love it. That is so great.

Speaker 2:

What inspired you to do this, to create the Alike Ability System? Well, in my own story about the fact that I actually have been a psychologist my entire life and that I never wanted to sell, and the government paid for my graduate studies and they trained me to implement mental health services in the workplace, which was an excellent situation for me. But upon graduation, I discovered that you cannot implement a program until it's sold. I didn't know anything about selling, so I went back to school, not to get a good degree, I went to the library, right? I'm kind of that grainy-act type person and I wanted to know what the masters of selling had to say, and especially I wanted to know people who did not hide pressure and put a lot of stress on the buyer, because that kind of selling was not my style. And that's when I came across the Platinum Rule and when I applied at Maryland, I quadrupled sales in 90 days and that was a wake-up call. And then I subsequently went on to start this business and to teach others, especially professionals who have invested in their occupational credential attorneys.

Speaker 2:

You have put a lot. Think about it, listener. You spent a lot of money on that law degree. Maybe you even spend more on passing the law exam, right, because I know my friend, it took her three tries before she did right. So you've invested a lot to become an attorney. And now, if you're in your own firm and you are the rainmaker, oh my goodness, your skin is in the game, right, you've got to make this work, and that's the person I want to help, because they have so much to offer, but they often are handicapped by their humility and their lack of self-promotion. Okay, excellent, I love that. Yeah, I just this seems like such a no-brainer if you're an attorney and it just gets you to the sale. We are all in sales. Yeah, we are. It does make sense.

Speaker 2:

So what would be the one biggest takeaway you would have the listeners take from this? That it's not a one-size-fits-all selling style. You see, there isn't a perfect way to say things. You really do need to take into account the person who's listening to you and what you can say. That will connect with them authentically, make them feel honored, respected right, the platinum rule but at the same time, you are influencing them by being able to talk their language, because nothing is sweeter than your first name. You know whatever that is, and so when you connect with that prospect you're going to, your practice will flourish. Great, that is fantastic and that's what we want. That's what the podcast here is for is helping struggle on the law firms, bro. I love that.

Speaker 2:

Where can our listeners learn more about you? Well, I'm on LinkedIn all the time, so please come to linkedincom. Slash Nancy Zare. My last name rhymes with care. It starts with the last letter of the alphabet, z or Zed, a-r-e. You can also, obviously, contact me on my website, which is nancyzarecom, so those are two easy ways to get a hold of me? Great, and we'll make sure those are in the show notes so people can reach out to you. And I'll get that book link as well. So I want to make sure that people can get your audio book too. Is there a question that you wish I would have asked you today? Is there a question that you wish I would have asked you today? My goodness, well, I was concerned that our time is such that there's so much more information to share that I can't just get it all in. Marilyn, we did a good job of laying the groundwork and, with your permission, maybe I can come back and we can talk more. Absolutely, nancy, this has been great, and everybody check the show notes for the links they had to reach out to her.

Speaker 2:

You want to increase your revenue, if I can speak, increase your firm's revenue. You definitely want to get involved in our program so you can learn who you're speaking to and speak to them the way they want to be spoken to. And I'm interrupting to let you know that, because you don't like to market and you don't like to sell, you need Maryland, you need a professional who can help represent you and put your message out to the public, Because we're too close to our own message. When we try to do it ourselves and I know many of us are do-it-yourselfers, you know we will stumble, bumble and lose a lot of time and resources. Use the expertise right here at your fingertips. Exactly, I mean we.

Speaker 2:

You know I would hire an attorney for something instead of trying to figure it out myself. I can buy forms online to do stuff, but I'd rather have someone that would take care of it. That would do it right the first time. Absolutely, nancy. Thank you so very much for your time. This has been exciting. I love the whole process and the idea of learning who you're talking to before you get in front of them, so you can have a better conversation and increase your revenues To your sales success. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. Remember you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.