The Power of Boundaries: Transforming Mental Health and Unlocking Personal Growth

Have you ever wondered how setting boundaries can transform your mental and physical health? Join us on Healthy Waves as we welcome Dana, a clinical psychologist with a knack for sharing hilarious and poignant stories from her career, and Joseph, a business coach and expert in subconscious techniques. Together, these two offer a unique blend of wisdom and humor to explore the profound impact of boundaries on well-being. Dana shares her real-world experiences in community mental health, while Joseph provides actionable insights into rapid business growth and personal development.

Using the metaphor of a suburban yard, we illustrate the importance of personal boundaries and how focusing too much on others can lead to neglecting your own well-being. We dive into the power of owning your responsibilities and facing difficult conversations head-on to foster healthier relationships. Dana and Joseph discuss neuroplasticity and how reshaping our neural pathways can better equip us to handle life's challenges. You'll hear inspiring stories of clients who've achieved remarkable financial growth and personal breakthroughs by altering their limiting beliefs and expanding their comfort zones.

Finally, we address the emotional toll of exhaustive efforts in social media marketing and the importance of aligning your conscious and subconscious goals. Dana and Joseph offer practical advice on setting and maintaining healthy boundaries, even when facing resistance from others. By embracing changes and working within your strengths and passions, you can attract success more effortlessly and cultivate a balanced, fulfilling life. Tune in for a session filled with humor, wisdom, and transformative insights.

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:12

Hello and welcome to Healthy Mind Healthy Life with your host, avik. This podcast is all about exploring the latest research, sharing personal stories and providing personal tips for improving our mental health and well-being. Each episode will be joined by experts in the field of mental health, as well as individuals who have experienced the transformative power of a healthy mind first-hand. Together, we will dive into a range of topics, from managing stress and anxiety to building resilience and cultivating happiness. So join us on this journey to discover new ways to take care of our minds, bodies and souls, and let's work together to create a healthier, happier world, one episode at a time. So let's get started.

Speaker 2: 1:17

Hello and welcome to Healthy Waves, the live podcast where we deep dive into the vanity of topics with the experts who bring the knowledge and the insights to our discussions. So each episode promises engaging conversations and the invaluable advice and the latest perspectives on the mental and the physical health. So, whether you are here to learn, be inspired or just enjoy thought-provoking dialogue, you have come to the right place. So let's make some healthy waves together. So today we have a very special guest Dana and Joseph. So welcome both of you to Healthy Waves.

Speaker 3: 2:01

Thank you, this is awesome.

Speaker 1: 2:03

Yeah, it's good to be here with you. Can you hear me now? Exactly, perfect.

Speaker 2: 2:10

Exactly Lovely and the timing is really great. We started and we just came in, so it's really really great. So I'll quickly introduce you to all of you, dear listeners. Uh, dear listeners, like we have dana, so uh, dana, with a master's degree in clinical psychology, so has an extensive career that spans community mental health, psychiatric hospitals and the private practice, so she is known as the queen of boundaries, so she specializes in anxiety, adjustment issues and the trauma, so she navigates, and she brings her expertise and the humor to her podcast, fleece and the Flame, where she helps listeners navigate the emotional challenges and live victorious lives. That's really, really great.

Speaker 2: 3:06

And I'll also quickly introduce you to Joseph. So he is a powerhouse in, I would say, rapid business growth and the personal development. So, with over 28 years of experience in the cells and a deep understanding of the subconscious mind and a deep understanding of the subconscious mind, he developed the SMD, which is a method to help people achieve their dreams. So, recognized as a top business coach, his energy and the insights have transformed lives and the businesses across the country. So I'm really, really great to have both of you on the show and welcome to the show again.

Speaker 3: 3:46

Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 3:48

Yeah, this is gonna be a great conversation, I can feel it already Nice to meet you too, dana.

Speaker 3: 3:57

Nice to meet you, Joseph.

Speaker 2: 4:01

So today the discussion is very agreed where we'll be talking about the inner diaries, so the impact of the boundaries on the mental and the physical health. So we'll quickly start with Dana. So if you can share your journey, like from working in the community mental health to becoming a private practice psychotherapist, so how would you go?

Speaker 3: 4:24

Oh, wow. So I did spend about seven years in community mental health and that's sort of like and it's very much needed, absolutely needed. It's difficult. You kind of have to take whatever's thrown at you. You don't really know who's going to walk through the door or what you're going to be asked to do. They're going to move you around like chess pieces on a chess board wherever they need to go, and so from that sense it really did help me to be very flexible, adaptable, be able to think on my feet and really kind of be there in the trenches with people that are coming in. And community mental health also is wonderful about having a sliding scale. If people, if they don't have insurance, they don't have any money, they still need help with their emotional issues, there's a place where they can go, where there's a lot of psychiatry, social work, psychology, nurses, recreational therapists all kinds of people that are there to help them on their journey.

Speaker 3: 5:25

Some interesting stories I can remember one funny story, one I was doing evaluations disability evaluations over the summer because I had done school testing, like if you have a child that goes to school and you feel like your child might have a learning disability or gifted or something like that. They have to go through this process of being tested, and this was years and years ago. So I was one of those people that was contracted to do that testing. Well, in the summer, in general, that testing is not done. So we did the department that I was working in, the assessment department, we did disability evaluations and a guy came in and he was mad. He was very mad because he had been on disability for, from what I can remember, alcoholism and the disability board changed their protocol where they no longer were providing disability income for people who've been diagnosed with alcoholism and so he had to go back through the process and he was very angry. And I remember walking out into the waiting room and I had my clipboard here I am, walk out there, I call his name and he comes barreling up to me. He was just like a fireplug of a guy and I'm not that tall but he was like kind of right and he was, I'm telling you, avik and Joseph. He was so close to me that my vision was blurred. He walked, he barreled across the waiting room, came right up in my face. I couldn't even I was trying to focus on him and he was so close in my face that I couldn't even I was trying to focus on him and he was so close in my face that my vision was blurry. And so I'm like okay. So I walked with him down the hallway. I had to do a whole bunch of testing with him IQ testing, rorschach testing, all kinds of things. With achievement testing I mean disability, wanted all the stuff. We were together about three hours. When we were finished he was walking out of the room and he looked down at me and he said you know what? And I said what he goes. You're very disarming. I'm like, okay.

Speaker 3: 7:40

So in community mental health you never know what you're going to run into. So then it went from that to private practice. You know, you get to a point where you're in a point in your career where you can do what you want to do. I paid my dues, I did, I was in the trenches, I did my stuff.

Speaker 3: 7:57

And when I moved into private practice then I could have my own choices about who I wanted to see, and my favorite is anxiety issues. That's my favorite thing to deal with. And of course trauma is involved. So I'm with that and I developed more and more boundary focus on boundaries and boundaries coaching. But I've been in private practice for about 16 years, and so it's just been nice to be able to kind of narrow it down, you know, and see exactly who. I figured out that I wanted to see who exactly that I was gifted to see, which you don't know in the beginning, right, you're just kind of throwing spaghetti on the wall, you don't know, but then after a while you figure it out. So that's kind of that whole amusing process.

Speaker 2: 8:40

That's really really lovely. Yeah, that's really really lovely. So, joseph, we heard an interesting journey from Dana, so I would love to hear from you about the SMT method, how it helps people achieve their life and the business goals. Yeah, absolutely, and the whole thing came about.

Speaker 1: 9:03

I'll be absolutely. And the whole thing came about I'll be really quick, but the whole thing came about. In growing up in a struggling family, very low income family, in Detroit, michigan, my mom and dad worked their tails off, you know, to try and make ends meet and put a roof over our head and food in our mouth. And I grew up and got into my adulthood and I started doing those same, that same character traits I started carrying out. So in my twenties, if something came easy to me, I thought I didn't work hard enough for it, so I didn't deserve it. You know, when I started out that way, I started out in, you know, being up in Detroit and the auto Mecca, and and and blue collar. And then I went to I'm the first child in my family to get a college education. You know I'm the first child in my family to go to white collar. You know they shift over into white collar not that there's anything wrong with, you know, blue collar. But and and I continue to struggle. And from the time I was 22 years old when I noticed that things happening easy, you know, felt like I didn't deserve it, I started working on myself and it's been a continuous pathway and I have gone from in my own life, in my own journey. I have gone from like you know, we talked about alcohol from from using alcohol to cope with the life that I was living and stuff, you know, and thinking that would be a way of doing it and stuff and so many things with it. But I'll give you a quick example for me and then one of my clients is when I first started out into sales. Once I got into sales clients is when I first started out into sales. Once I got into sales, I would run every single week between three and 5,000 miles a week building territories and I would continuously do these loops, other than taking a couple of weeks vacation and I might add a million dollars to the bottom line. Once I started understanding the subconscious and what I call a motherboard, that conditioning that we receive from the time we're born all the way up through this conversation we're still getting conditioning, you know and I started understanding how that conditioning is impacting and it's all based on neuroscience how that is impacting our actions that we take or we don't take, because the subconscious within that is what triggers our brainwaves, to the actions we take or don't take. So as I start understanding this stuff more, which has been a. It was a long journey, almost a three decade journey into this, and I've been doing this now for about maybe 11 years, 12 years.

Speaker 1: 11:14

As I started stepping out into this, as I started understanding the subconscious and how that plays a role into what we're experiencing in our life, I was able to within I mean, it was easy to land a $25 million year over year contract and, like I said, it was just easy, it flowed, it just happened, and it took a $50 million organization to $75 million in one opportunity like that and then I started going forward with it. Then I moved up into management and eventually a vice president of sales, building successful sales teams that were I would call overachievers. You know that we would always get over the mark. We were looking and then later on in my corporate career, before I left is, I was helping organizations in bankruptcy get back to profitability. So, dana, when you said that about not knowing, I knew at 22 years old that I wanted to inspire, motivate and help people live better lives and I had a lot of passion into it because of seeing my parents and they didn't have these tools available and such back then. But I didn't know how to do it and so at first I wanted to help everybody with everything and anything they ever ran up against. You know, and you know you probably know from some experience that doesn't work like that. So I had to start honing in and as much as I dislike that 28 years I spent in corporate America, it's been very useful to me help hundreds of clients now business owners, entrepreneurs, professional salespeople to really go beyond what they even expected they could achieve and do so very rapidly.

Speaker 1: 12:53

And I'll give you one quick example is I worked with one realtor who, 13-year high, was doing $7.5 million in sales, which was decent. She wanted to get to $12 and she wanted to get to $10 million decent. She wanted to get to $12 million. She wanted to get to $10 million. We expanded her vision to get to $12.5 million. Within 12 calendar months her business went from $7.5 million and almost toppled over $23 million and she's been maintaining that for six and a half, going on seven years now at that upper level like that. So when I say very rapidly, that upper level like that, so when I say very rapidly and like, you know really what I call it is unrealistic growth, because it's not realistic that we could grow like that. But it's also not realistic this kid born in Detroit, michigan, and the family I was born in would be able to have this impact, or that God would have worked through me with the SMT method to build that, to have the impact on people's lives that it has.

Speaker 3: 13:48

That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 13:51

That's so impressive. I love it. I get to be a part of this and you know when somebody has that breakthrough man, I get tears.

Speaker 3: 13:57

I'm just excited about it. It's amazing yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:00

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:02

Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So, uh, I mean, um, coming back to dana, uh, like what according to you? I mean, how do these unhealthy boundaries contribute to the common emotional issues, like the frustration, anger, anxiety, all those things?

Speaker 3: 14:26

Well, let's say I have. First of all, when I have a client walk into my office and they start pouring out all these things, this is wrong. This is wrong. I feel this way. This is going on.

Speaker 3: 14:37

Step one is we've got to figure out how much of all of this belongs to them and how much of all of this actually belongs to somebody else. Because what happens is people get it mixed up rather than owning what belongs to them. And because that's the good stuff, that's what you get to change what belongs to us. But rather than owning that because they don't, they get stuck in guilt and shame, and we'll talk about that in a minute but rather than owning their own stuff, they spend too much time in the other person's what I'll call the other person's yard. So if you think about I like visualization. So if you think about your yard like a typical suburban neighborhood with a fence line in between it, let's just stop for a moment and say if you've ever seen someone, if you've ever seen someone, if you've been out there mowing your yard and let's say there's no fence line, have you ever noticed that the person mowing knows exactly where to stop, to the end, right. And so the question is why don't they mow, let's say, their neighbor's yard? The grass is long. Why don't they just go on over there and mow it? It's not their yard, unless their neighbor has asked them to mow it. They're not going to go and mow their neighbor's yard because it doesn't belong to them. So keep that in mind. In that visual of yards Now we're going to drop a fence down in the middle of it between the two yards. So in your yard are your thoughts, feelings and actions, okay, in your neighbor's yard is his or her thoughts, feelings and actions. So what happens is people go out and they're ignoring what's in their own yard and they're spending way too much time all traipsing around in their neighbor's yard, washing their neighbor's cars, raking their neighbor's leaves, painting their neighbor's houses, to try to get their neighbors to like them, to try to please everybody. Meanwhile, their own yard is looking like they're losing at Jumanji. So I'm just saying you know, they've got to, they've got to. So they have to get that straight.

Speaker 3: 16:46

And what you see lots of times are, like I said, the people pleasing because people cannot. They're so focused on, they're terrified. They're going to say something or do something and somebody is going to get mad at them, somebody is going to be upset with them and they can't deal with it. And so they wrap themselves in a big pretzel, pushing down things that really need to be upset with them and they can't deal with it. And so they wrap themselves in a big pretzel, pushing down things that really need to be said right, because they're terrified that the other person is going to respond with anger or some strong emotion like that. And so I help my clients to figure out how do you own your own stuff and how do you get less, not get so wrapped up in because somebody oh they might get mad at you. Yeah, they might. Well, what if they don't like me? Okay, they might not.

Speaker 3: 17:38

And you know, we've got to, we've got to lean in, we've got to face these things and see, this is what happens, and not only personally. But see, we've got to lean in, we've got to face these things and see, this is what happens, and not only personally. But see, I've had clients that are CEOs, that are doctors, surgeons, lawyers I mean businessmen, businesswomen, nurse practitioners, teachers, it goes on and on. This plays a part in the work scenario, because imagine someone being at work and they need to have what's called the hard conversation. Right, but they're calling it hard because of how they anticipate the other person is going to respond. So, rather than having the hard conversation, which they're calling hard, they just shove it down, but it does not go away. It does not go away, it sits in there and creates pressure, and so I teach people how to reframe and to use.

Speaker 3: 18:32

You know, joseph, you were talking about the, the neuro, how it's all kind of going on. I like to think about the neuroplasticity because our neurons and our neural pathways think about the neuroplasticity because our, our neurons and our neural pathways and you know this a beak from being a psychologist, you know the neural pathways, they're there. It can be the neuroplasticity. We can change it around. Yeah, that's what I help my clients do to change around their expectations and what they, what they're expecting from other people and their ability to know what to do in response to these situations at work and at home true, yeah, very good is so, um, okay, I mean, uh also this thing.

Speaker 2: 19:14

This thing is coming to my mind also one thing like uh, we often uh hear this, uh, uh, what to say? Like the boundaries, like the concept of boundaries. So uh, I mean, why is it very, very important for the mental health, the concept of boundaries?

Speaker 3: 19:37

well, okay, imagine if somebody is not owning their own thoughts and feelings. Let me give you an example. We talked about hard conversations earlier, right? So let's say we have this thought about somebody. Let's say we overheard somebody talking about us or talking about a topic and it really, really bothered us, right? But we don't want to bring it up because we feel like if we do, it's going to be awkward, it's going to be hard and weird. We don't want to say it, so we fling it out.

Speaker 2: 20:06

Somehow there is fear inside us like what will happen.

Speaker 3: 20:10

Yes, right. So because of that, we don't want to talk about it, so we fling it out. Well, I call these actually boomerang issues because they don't stay gone. Guess what happens? They boomerang back to us in the form of intrusive thoughts. And so you walk out into your yard, okay, and there's a boomerang lying there. It's our responsibility to pick it up. Walk across our yard, engage our neighbor in a respectful conversation to say, hey, you know, yesterday I heard you saying this, or you said this, and it really bothered me. Can we talk about it for a moment and see? That can be a beautiful, healthy, healing, strong conversation and both people can be better for it.

Speaker 3: 20:54

But let's say that someone ignores those boomerangs. They push them down, they push them down, they push them down. They act like they're not there, but they are. They walk out into their yard. There's 25 boomerangs laying out there. You know what they're going to do. One more boomerang is going to happen. Okay, the straw that broke the camel's back, so to say. They're going to load up all of those boomerangs into a Gatling gun and they're going to go shoot their neighbor. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, with 25 boomerangs all at once. I don't know if you've ever been on the other side of that, but I have, and that is not pleasant. And so mental health it's like knowing how to address these issues with our coworker, with our, with our managers, with directs, with our friends, with our family, so that we can be healthy. We're not responsible for them, but we are responsible for what's going on in our own mind. So that's one example of how boundaries impacts mental health.

Speaker 1: 21:57

Yeah, and another way it can carry out is we sabotage ourselves Right. We build that resentment, we pull away from people, we start using things like alcohol or whatever it is to kind of keep that push down and things like that thing. With people pleasing. You know, I experienced that in my life and in doing so, like I thought it was like a badge of honor, you know, when people say, man Joy will give you the shirt off his back, you know, or Joseph, like I was like, yeah, you know, like I always thought that was like a compliment, and then later on I realized that all people pleasing is really is I'll be whoever I think you want me to be, to get from you what I want to get. And that's what it is really and where it establishes is in our conditioning Things happening as we're growing up.

Speaker 1: 22:42

You have to be kind to your teacher, you have to be friendly to everybody at school. You have to, you know, do all this stuff regardless of how you feel inside, but you have to act on the outside this way, and we weren't taught tools to deal with those things to, and we weren't taught tools to deal with those things, to have those conversations like you're talking about Dana. So what happens is we start coming up with as little kids even. We start coming up with our own processes of ways of doing that and still stay in line to how we're expected to be and stuff. And so we start going through that, because I do the same.

Speaker 1: 23:12

Every one of my clients has got to be boundary set. You know, when you know just shifting business and things like that. You know when somebody has been struggling trying to keep their business alive for years and then we start working together and they start seeing these. All of a sudden you start, you know, you start seeing that growth. All of a sudden you see the weak links in your organization as well, and people you got to retrain or move on or things like that and stuff. So it plays a part. Boundaries are essential to achieve anything in life. Without them, it's just mass chaos from the inside out.

Speaker 3: 23:42

Yes, that's exactly. Yes, yeah, that's it 100%. It's huge, it's, it's personal, it's in it's. In business, I mean the most. The most peaceful people that I know are the ones that have the most agency, actually have very good boundaries because they're not confused about what belongs to them and what does not, and if other people don't know, it doesn't matter, because they're like they know, they know what matters.

Speaker 1: 24:10

I liked your yard scenario and I'll tell you why. You know, back in the day aside from in corporate, I was a builder and stuff like that and built houses and I built one for my family and stuff. And the guy next door once I had my sod put in, he literally put a stake up with wine going down the property line and stuff. And I was like wow, this is crazy, you know, because if I were by that line and I saw that it was wine, I would just cut that little bit more and stuff like that and everything. And I was like wow, and I mean people are how they are and stuff. But yeah, it all comes back to our conditioning and the way that where SMT is very, very successful is. It's just like similar to what you're describing, dana. I'm sure every client you work with is a different scenario.

Speaker 1: 24:59

Yes, and with what I do there's so much coaching that's like a one-size fit-off, the way it's told and stuff, but it doesn't work. Less than 1% of the people following those programs ever achieves anywhere near the person who put it together. So the SMT method works off of the uniqueness of the individual. So it's based on. If you guys were both doing it. It'd be based on your individual conditioning. It'd be based on your individual desires of what you want to achieve. And so what happens is, as we start stepping into it, setting boundaries is a natural thing, where it's like a learned or relearned process, part of it, where we have to learn to our yeses mean yes and our noses mean no. You know, and we start that simple and we grow from there.

Speaker 3: 25:42

Yeah, absolutely yeah, that's a hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 25:48

Lovely so. So when you're talking about SMT, joseph, so also one thing, one word is very much visible in my mind, like which is subconscious mind? So I mean, if you can also share, like how does this reprogramming the subconscious mind actually contribute to the overall physically and mentally well-being?

Speaker 1: 26:13

yeah, so we have a. Smt stands for subconscious mindset training. So we all know we have and SMT stands for subconscious mindset training. So we all know we have our conscious mind. It's what we focus on, what we read, who we talk to, what we take in, things like that, you know, and all of that, and even that voice in our head that we hear, that creates so many flipping arguments for us in our life. It's coming from that subconscious conditioning.

Speaker 1: 26:35

But in our conscious mind we know what we want. When I sit down and talk to people and when I'm onboarding them into a program, they know. People know what they want, or at least close to what they want. But what they're used to doing is reducing that to a mediocre level because they don't believe this is possible. So that's where all the plan A, plan Bs and things like that come in. And so we know what we want in our conscious mind. But then we wonder why am I not taking the actions to lead to that? They'll take actions over and over and over that keep them limited from what they want to achieve.

Speaker 1: 27:07

And all of that comes from that subconscious conditioning. All of that, whether it's fear, whether you know our programming I'm sorry, our programming in our subconscious. It's based on our patterns, our paradigms, our habits, our, you know, it's based on our experiences. But it's even based on experiences that we never even experienced, but somebody told us about it and we buy into that and that becomes part of that conditioning. So the first thing we have to do is start bumping up against that conditioning causing limitation, which SMT does through what I dynamic vision road mapping right out of the gate. And as we start bumping into that, then we can shift that and open it up with new beliefs in place of it. That can start getting different results. Does that make sense?

Speaker 3: 27:55

That sounds amazing and that's really kind of that neuroplasticity that we were talking about earlier. It's like helping them to form new pathways that open their mind up to this Something different is possible.

Speaker 1: 28:07

Well, you're right, and it might not be new pathways, but it's shifting the way the pathways are operating. So, instead of coming from a point of what we don't want but what we're used to right the comfort zone, the big comfort zone, work right we get in that comfort zone and we're living in there based on all of our conditioning, and to get to what we want we have to get outside of that comfort zone. So as we do that and we start taking those actions and people start seeing things open up, it's not a treasury pathway, it's excitement, because once somebody even the vision when I talked about that realtor at $10 million and helping them stretch that to 12.5, it didn't matter if I stretched it by $10, just getting them to expand that possibility of it and then build the excitement around that so all of a sudden, when things start taking off and there's more excitement going into it, which means we open up more, we hit more of that conditioning, we shift more of it. And that's how companies are, you know, and people I work with are able to achieve Like I didn't think it was possible to achieve these results with this program and I'm not smart enough to have built it on my own these results with this program and I'm not smart enough to have built it on my own.

Speaker 1: 29:24

So when I say that it was driven from a source greater than me, I know that with all my heart and soul and to seeing the impact that it has on people. I mean, I told you the one. But I have clients who were working a job and they had part of a vision of what they wanted to do, or they were just kind of doing what they really wanted to do as a hobby and helping them to achieve that. I have one gentleman right now I've been working with for just over a year who's now doing 40, 40, a little over $40,000 a week in his business and he was working a full-time job and doing this at maybe I don't even think a thousand dollars000 a month.

Speaker 3: 29:54

That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 29:57

People who have coaching companies and do different works than I do in different areas and stuff. But I help them. I have one of them who came to me a year ago and couldn't find the love of her life. She was really frustrated about that, her living arrangements, this and that stuff. She was doing maybe $3,200 a month in her coaching with what she was doing. Now she's toppling over $25 million a month. She's been consistently doing that.

Speaker 1: 30:22

The love of her life showed up out of the blue because we shifted that conditioning on what's causing the limitations with it and stuff and just seeing this and so I love what I do. Money to me is just. It's a barometer for the impact that I'm having with the works. I do so when I see that. But I see these people and it's not that they went from 7.5 to 23 million or from 3,200 to 25,000 a month. It's not that so much as it is the transformation the person experiences when when I get done working with somebody, they walk away feeling like they're a different person and have so much more available to them in their life.

Speaker 3: 31:04

That's awesome. Can I ask a question about that? Yeah, so are you asking me.

Speaker 3: 31:10

I'm asking you, joseph. So the what I've run into is is entrepreneurs especially but it doesn't have to be just entrepreneurs, but people, like you said, that have businesses, they have a hobby, they want to develop into something or whatever, and then they go into and they end up with a consultant of sorts that is helping them, but it feels like so much effort is going in. So much effort is going in. That's one of the stories that I'm hearing. I mean all the social media posting that has to be done, all the connections that have to be made, all the hours and hours and hours on LinkedIn and all these, you know, trying to reach out and make the connections to try to make things happen.

Speaker 3: 31:49

What they're telling me is that they feel like there's so much incredible effort going into it and they feel like they're going to have to wait too long for ROI. They feel like the ROI is too low and they're going to have to, and they keep getting told these stories by their consultants. You know that okay, well, it's eventually just have to hang in there, it's eventually going to happen. So what do you? Because they don't know and they're saying they're frustrated. They're doing everything they can do and they don't know and they're saying they're frustrated, they're doing everything they can do and they don't know the backstory, they don't know the answer. But this is kind of. I feel like there's a lot of people in the stories that I've heard, people that are stuck in that middle place where they've jumped in, but the ROI seems like a mirage in the desert that keeps moving and moving, and moving and they're wondering at what point do I just stop?

Speaker 1: 32:42

Because it's not. I can't do this forever and on and on. What do you say to those people? Yeah, I've done that. I've been down that pathway. I've taken a lot of coaching programs and things like that, and there's a coaching philosophy that, because of my conditioning, was what it was, that you know.

Speaker 1: 32:52

I was taught that. You know, as a man, that you get a job, support a family and you hopefully live long enough to enjoy some retirement. You know work isn't supposed to be fun. That's why it's called work, like all of those programmings and things like you know, like that. And so I bought into it.

Speaker 1: 33:07

When I started looking for help, I started going to those things and I walked away program after program after program. I must not want it bad enough because I'm trading off my life. I had one son out of five pregnancies and stuff. So when I say I adore my son, I really mean that. And on his first birthday I wasn't there because I was out building sales territories in my late 20s, because I thought that's what I was supposed to do as a man and it crushed me then. It crushes me now as I'm telling you this, and I'll never get that day back.

Speaker 1: 33:40

And so we do this and we're taught. You know, if you want something, you got to take massive actions and you got to take exhaustive efforts and you got to be willing to trade off your life to get what you want and everything else. And and I would if that were, if that were required, I wouldn't be here talking to you guys right now because I got so burned out from living that life and that's part of the thing that led to using alcohol and things like that, trying to be okay, living life that way, you know, to go after my goals. And so when I say to people a lot of people don't believe this, but somebody coming from that conditioning of that, that massive action, I can't help that person unless they're in enough pain over it that they're willing to try something different. Because the way I operate is, once we get into that alignment, once we get the conscious mind knowing what we want, and then we get the subconscious and that conditioning repatterned and reprogrammed and things like that All of a sudden. I'm sure both of you guys have had coincidences that happen to show up just at the right time to work something out that you didn't even know how to work out right and what happens is we can start counting on those things happening.

Speaker 1: 34:43

That realtor I told you about, you know, when you get like somebody that gets into real estate man, they appoint them a mentor or a coach or whatever and they start going over and trying to push them to do all this stuff in order to be successful. And what I do is I work with a business owner, realtor, whatever it is and I help them find out. We develop systems of accelerating habits. So what I do is I help find what triggers that person, their excitement, what triggers that attraction factor, what triggers and then we find time to do more of that. Because as we do more of those things, it starts bringing different results to us than if we're doing something we can't stand. It starts bringing different results to us than if we're doing something we can't stand. Not that we don't have to do things we don't like.

Speaker 1: 35:19

Like for me, my taxes. I have a story about, you know. Every year I'm going through three different drawers in my glove box and everything else and pulling all the receipts and putting them together. But I finally shifted that a couple of years ago to when I sit down to do it. Now. I focus on hitting the send button when I send everything to the account, and the whole time I'm going through the receipts and organizing and everything else. I'm focused on the end point and when I do that, it happens quicker, it's less painful for me to go through and it's actually led to me having putting a little bit of order and how I take care of my receipts throughout the year and stuff you know.

Speaker 1: 35:53

And so a good example of that is if you take somebody on social media and you can tell they're doing a live and you can tell they they don't want to be there. Have you seen those videos? Yeah, don't you just feel bad for that person? I won't watch it that long because of how I feel. I'm like, oh, my God, okay, that's not something that's in that person's wheelhouse, so she shouldn't be doing it and pushing themselves to do it. You ever see somebody who, when you put the camera on them, they're lit up, they're at home, and those people you watch longer, don't you? Yep? So that's something. When we talk about developing systems of accelerating habits, that's. That's an accelerating habit for that person, Cause they'll be there and they'll literally attract people, opportunities to them by doing so, the person who can't stand doing, who's pushing themselves. All they're doing is pushing opportunities and people away. If so, I help them find what is that for you that lights you up, and then we spend more time doing it.

Speaker 3: 36:51

You know, joseph, that reminds me a lot of.

Speaker 3: 36:55

I was telling a friend of mine the other day that for me, boundaries training it's like imagine that we're all on a game board, right, and we're wandering around on this game board but we don't know what we're doing, we don't know how to get points, we don't know how to win, but we can't get off the game board, right, we're just wandering around, wandering around trying to just figure out what's going on and we don't know. To me, boundaries training is like, kind of like what you're mentioning. It's like handing somebody here's the rule book, here's how you do it. And then they open up the rule book and then they're looking at their game board going, oh so this is how you do it, so this is how you get points, so this is how you win this game. All right, I got it now. Then they're excited, because then they know how to play the game, they're not confused anymore, they're not angry anymore, they're not scared anymore, because they understand how it works.

Speaker 3: 37:58

For me, teaching training boundaries is like handing somebody that rule book and seeing that when they start putting it in motion and then they come back in for the next session, they're like oh my gosh, and it's just like what it's like the clouds part, the sun shines down. It's just that moment You're just like, yes, it's just amazing down.

Speaker 1: 38:17

It's just that moment You're just like, yes, it's just amazing, yeah. And the same thing happens, like when I start working with somebody new, whether they're new in business or whether they've had a business and they're struggling for the growth they want or things. Whatever it is is is helping them develop that dynamic vision is the boundary. Now they have a clear boundary. They know what to do. Now they get excited about, they can, you know, look forward to, they can like all of that stuff there, rather than just going based on the good, better, best type of thing or all the goals you know which. You know a goal is either achieve it or you don't. You know a vision is you're working towards that. Yeah, so there's a difference, but absolutely, I mean boundaries, like we said, like you said earlier, it's essential to everything.

Speaker 3: 38:56

It is from that total game changer, total game changer from like surgeons down to librarians, sanitation engineer and everybody. It's a game changer.

Speaker 1: 39:09

I would say for anybody breathing, yes, yeah.

Speaker 3: 39:12

Boundaries are necessary. Yeah, boundaries are necessary. Whatever, whatever landscape you're on, whether it's with your relationship with your spouse, your relationship with your children, whether it's your relationship with your boss, your coworkers, your directs, your managers, whoever it is, you know what to do, you can be assertive, you're respectful. I mean you. You have more confidence. You mentioned that earlier. It's just, it's huge.

Speaker 1: 39:43

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 39:43

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 39:45

Yeah, and it I mean and it's funny cause you said it, you know what I do it goes across the entire life of the person. It's not just we're building your business, but your marriage stinks or your, you know, kids can't stand you. It works in every area of our life, every facet of our life. There are facets of our life that it works in. It's not just pinpoint here and then these are still and I have evidence of those things too where somebody came to me for business coaching because their team wasn't producing, and I found out a couple of weeks in they they had 36 year marriage that they just coexisted.

Speaker 1: 40:17

By the sixth week he ended up being at one of the live events before COVID that I did, and he did a testimonial and he talked about how he and his wife were like newlyweds again, snuggling up on the couch with popcorn, watching movies, things like that. And I said to him in there too, and I said, okay, so we know what you've done, you've worked with me, what's your wife done? And he said she hasn't done nothing and he was kind of kidding. But when we change, everything in our world has to shift as well, and boundaries are essential in that. You know boundaries in our business, heck even boundaries like going from that massive actions to making a family a priority again, to spending time with our kids, to being a parent in their life and being a spouse, you know, and a friend, and exercise and all that stuff.

Speaker 3: 41:05

It requires boundaries to have a balanced life Well, and we're the ones that get to decide how to do that. The other people aren't the ones that are deciding that for us. That's what boundaries provides is that we're evaluating the scenario and we're going to say, okay, based on what's going on here, this is what I choose to do, and so we can understand what someone else might expect from us and we can take that under consideration. And then we're going to decide. I'm either going to do what they expect or I'm going to make another choice, but either way, that's my choice to make, and they're either going to like it or they're not going to like it. Either way, those feelings are in their yard.

Speaker 1: 41:41

Well, and to some degree, with that data, I agree with you. But to some degree people are unconsciously. They don't have that choice because their conditioning leads them a certain way and we're so used to following the conditioning because we might not like it, but it's comfortable. That's why it's a comfort zone, you know. And so they're doing things without even really thinking about it. One of my favorite quotes is Wallace Wattles If you are not consciously choosing to be rich, excellent and healthy, then you are unconsciously choosing to be poor, mediocre and unhealthy. And that, right there it's that shift. You know that subconscious conditioning. We're not even aware of some of the things we're doing and we can't be. You can't take a thinking mind, you know. And a thinking mind would not go to a job, day after day, week after week, month, year, you know, decade after decade doing something you can't stand doing.

Speaker 1: 42:31

A thinking mind would not do that. But when we're coming from that comfort zone place and we're just following the habits and the patterns and things like, I had one client of mine when we started working together. Two weeks in he goes I don't have any patterns or paradigms at all.

Speaker 3: 42:45

And just off the cuff of my head. I go.

Speaker 1: 42:47

Okay, here's what I want you to do tomorrow when you shower, I want you to lather your hair 12 times and then rinse and be done. I don't even know where that came from. He called me back the next day and he MF'd me and he goes, I couldn't do it. He goes, I got to 12 and I stopped and I start, and I was like I can't and he just and I go. That right, there is a pattern. We have these patterns. We're not even aware of that we live through day after day after day and they're causing limitations in our life and unless we do something about them, you know, things unattended, only get worse over time. They never get better. So what? Either we do something about them or it's going to pull more and more of what we want away from us, to continue following that comfort zone of those patterns.

Speaker 3: 43:32

Well, and listening to you makes me think of this, of the pain threshold, that until we are willing to do the work of change, the pain of staying the same has to be worse than the pain of change. And I see, joseph, you and me and people like us are out there. Our job is to help people be aware to, to open their eyes so they become aware of their pain. Sorry, yeah.

Speaker 3: 43:54

Yes, absolutely yes, because they're walking around in pain, but they don't even know it. And so, but until they, until they reach that pain threshold, they're not going to do the work of change, because they're not, they're not in enough pain, they're not aware of the economy.

Speaker 1: 44:08

to blame, competition to blame whoever's president to blame this, to blame that, to blame all these things where we become the victim of it. We have no potential for any growth that way. No, and one of the examples I help people to understand that with is it's never those things, that's never, ever, ever our problem. That's why you can take, like that realtor that I did that with, it wasn't during a boom that they grew, it was in a time when there was problems in real estate and everything else, and so I've seen companies in down economies have their greatest growth they've ever experienced. And then we see companies or people that are that are struggling in a boom. So it's never the economy, it's never the outside situations or circumstances.

Speaker 3: 45:07

We're just taught to blame those so we can be the victim then but then you're describing boundaries there, because all those things, all the economy, all these, that's in the, that's on the other side of the of the fence oh, we do, we have no control over any of those things, we can't change any of those things. If we want to actually have any agency in our own life, we have to identify those things that we can control. Yeah, we can't control the economy, we can't control who's in presidency. We can vote, but I mean still, I mean there's to sit here and say, well, so and so and so I'm just a victim. Well then, you're choosing to be impotent. Yes, that's what you're choosing.

Speaker 1: 45:43

And this is you're doing right here, like this 15 hour conversation we're involved with right now is because you brought up boundaries.

Speaker 3: 45:57

I think over there, like I remember me, avik's over there, like hey, remember me, yeah this is great conversation though. I know.

Speaker 2: 46:07

This is awesome, lovely, really lovely, great. So definitely the discussion will definitely go on and definitely I do not want to bend it too, but if, if one advice you have to give to the listeners or someone who is listening to these episodes, so, regarding the what to say, like establishing and maintaining that, uh, boundary, that healthy boundary, what will be done?

Speaker 3: 46:44

okay. So here's a here's a here's one realizing that when you set a boundary, it's not uncommon that someone is not going to like it, especially if you are in a people pleasing behavior pattern with others. So when someone does not like your boundary and they come back and they insult you, they judge you, they try to shame you, whatever they're going to do, let them. It has nothing to do with who you are. Other people have a right to their opinion. They can see you any kind of way. Is that comfortable? No, but a lot of things in life aren't comfortable. It is a point of agency. It is a point of control and power and resiliency and grit to be able to let other people have whatever opinion that they want. They say well, I think you're you're, you're so unkind. Let me tell you something.

Speaker 3: 47:48

I've been doing this a long time. I've got a long story of my own, but I've been called hateful, I've been called rude, I've been called unforgiving, I've been called a bitch, I've been called a kind of stuff. At the end of the day, we have to decide. I had to decide am I those things? And I had to sit with that Am I those things? And then I decided. No, I'm not those things. I'm the one that has to know that.

Speaker 3: 48:12

So when someone else accuses us of these things, it's usually because we were meeting their need before and we set up a boundary's. Usually because we were meeting their need before and we set up a boundary and we're no longer meeting their need, which means they're responsible for meeting their own need and they don't want to do that. So they're attacking us. They're trying to push our boundary back down, so we'll start meeting their need again. So they come at us. So my piece of advice is when that happens and it will, let them have whatever opinion they want. They might call you a name. That doesn't mean that you're unkind. That doesn't mean that you're hateful. It doesn't mean that you're unforgiving. It simply means they are pushing against your boundary because it's no longer meeting their need anymore. So, whatever it is they want to think or feel, let them.

Speaker 1: 48:58

And that's fine, it is. I want to think or feel, let them and that's bad, yeah. And I I'd like like really with the clients I work with. It starts even before setting of the boundary. It's that we have to think we are worthy of setting boundaries, so we have to elevate our own self-esteem, our own self-worth and things like that, so that we can do that. And then once, once we're at that point yeah, I agree with you fully where we can set the boundary, and it really gives us an insight into other people, because healthy people understand boundaries, so somebody that does react they're not reacting to me for saying the boundary, they're reacting out of their own fear or whatever it is going on inside them. It's not about me at all. Exactly yes.

Speaker 3: 49:40

A about me at all. Exactly yes, a hundred percent.

Speaker 1: 49:42

Yeah and that's yeah. And with the SMT, that's where we come out of the gate is building that self-esteem up, building this self-worth, up, building that potential. Because, like, how could you look at having even from a 7.5 to a $10 million organization if you don't believe in yourself enough to you know you could achieve that and sustain that, you know? So it's building that up as well right from the start of the whole thing. But yeah, that's Wow.

Speaker 2: 50:06

Lovely, and the same thing for Joseph, like, if you can also share, like what would be the strategies that you would recommend for maintaining motivation and the focus both in a professional and personal growth?

Speaker 1: 50:24

I would start with kind of boundaries. I guess Is really some self-evaluation, inventory whatever you want to call it of looking Are you getting the results that you really desire to get and whether you're in a coaching program that's pushing you to do all these things. Are you getting the results you want to get? You know really what do you want for your life, even before you think of whether you're worthy and everything else. What do you truly want for your life and is it meeting that?

Speaker 1: 50:52

And if not, it took me three decades to what's come as the SMT method and it's been a continuous journey for me of working and things like that, and it's been a lot of steps. Somebody can go through that same process of it. If you're working with somebody right now who's pushing you to do all the to-dos and things like that, just take a pause, take a break and just really just look at where you are right now. Whatever your situation, is this where you want to be right now? And if not, then I mean I'm going to give you a link at the end here where people can call and schedule a conversation with me. You know, just one-on-one.

Speaker 1: 51:25

No coaching, talk or sales right now, but really just to help people follow that, what it is they want, and as we start stepping into that and doing that, like I said, I could walk through all the steps of the SMT method and the vision and this and that and everything else. But you know, to say what they are the steps isn't going to help anybody. If you just clearly like take a couple of minutes and just clearly understand where are you right now, what do you like, what don't, what would you like to be different? That would be a starting point, because at least you're bringing it all to the conscious.

Speaker 2: 52:07

That's awesome. Yeah, conscious, that's awesome. Yeah, that's really true. So, uh, before we wrap, like, uh, both of you if someone wants to connect with you or any listeners wants to connect with you start their journey towards improved mental and the physical health today, how they can reach out to you If they go to danascaggscom that has.

Speaker 3: 52:32

I have boundaries coaching available there. I have boundaries self-studies for people that just kind of want to dip their toes in. I've got an eight-week group boundaries course and I'm really excited. At the very top there's a banner. Dr Natalie Pickering and I are doing a webinar. I think it's coming up in October.

Speaker 3: 52:47

It's called you Boost and it's for women in leadership and she is an Enneagram expert and she's covering the confidence part of it and I'm covering the boundaries part of it. So it's like a double. We're coming in together talking about the confidence and the boundaries and focusing on women in leadership, women in corporate America that really want to be able to be stronger and more resilient and be better in that space, and so they can sign up now. They can save their seats now. It's going to be super in that space and so they can sign up now. They can save their seats. Now. It's going to be super fun and exciting, but they can go ahead and because we only have a limited number of spaces on that, so people can go ahead and sign up and have that ready. That's going to be totally free. We're just going to offer that and it's just going to be just a fun time Wow.

Speaker 1: 53:34

And just as yeah, dana, do Joseph. Yeah, Dana, do you mind if I sign up for that? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I'm just checking your boundaries here. Anybody can get ahold of me and schedule a call. And again, it's just a one-on-one telephone call at coachwithjoeycom and, like I said, they can go and schedule it. We'll get on and talk about whatever you want to talk about what's going on and things about today and stuff. And, dana, I'd love to have for you and I to talk outside of here as well.

Speaker 1: 54:05

Yeah, that'd be nice and maybe we can schedule something and get together. But yeah, this has been a great conversation, but it's just coachwithjoeycom.

Speaker 2: 54:13

Okay, lovely, that's really really lovely, great. So thank you so much everyone for tuning in to healthy waves and definitely we hope that you have found our deep dive into the impact of boundaries on the mental and the physical health enlightening and inspiring. So a special thanks to uh our incredible guests, dana and joseph uh for sharing their expertise and the personal stories. It's really, really great learning, I would say so, uh, dear listeners, like always, remember that setting that uh healthy boundaries and also, at the same time, prioritizing your uh well-being are very, very essential steps towards a more balanced and the fulfilling life. So, if you have enjoyed today's episode, today's discussion, please subscribe to healthy waves, leave us a review and share this episode with your friends, family or someone who actually need this learning. So stay connected with us on social media for the updates, upcoming episodes and more expert insights. So until next time, keep riding those healthy waves and take care of your mind and body. Thank you for listening. Thank you, thanks, thanks.