From Political Enthusiast to CEO with Tim Rosales

How did Tim Rosales, a young political enthusiast, evolve into the CEO of one of the nation's top communications firms? Join us for an in-depth conversation with Tim as he shares his journey from the early days of his political career to leading The Agency. You'll hear about his pivotal decision to stay in California over moving to Washington, D.C., and his climb to becoming a chief of staff in Sacramento. Learn how his MBA played a crucial role in navigating the complexities of the business world, especially during the challenging onset of COVID-19.

This episode also delves into the changing landscape of political and advocacy communications, highlighting how internships and job expectations have transformed over the years. Tim provides fascinating insights into the importance of survey research and polling in understanding public opinion. Moreover, we tackle the ethical implications of generative AI in communications, discussing the balance between maintaining authenticity and embracing innovation. This episode is packed with expert perspectives, historical context, and thought-provoking discussions that you won't want to miss.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Interesting People, the podcast where we delve into the lives and stories of fascinating individuals from all walks of life. I'm your host, justin Wallen. In each episode, we bring you inspiring, thought-provoking and sometimes surprising interviews with people who are making an impact in their fields and communities. There's only one common thread that the world is more interesting because of them. Get ready to be inspired, entertained and enlightened as we spotlight the extraordinary. Let's dive in. Okay, today I am joined by my friend, tim Rosales, who is owner and CEO of the Agency, one of the most respected communications firms in the industry. It's based in Sacramento, but it has a national reach. Tim himself has worked with, I think, four California gubernatorial campaigns and a couple of presidential races, but he works with clients all across the industry spectrum. He's the real deal, and we're talking about communications today. So I wanted to first get a little bit of background on how you got here today, what that path looked like for you.

Speaker 2: 0:59

Yeah, no, that's a really really good question. Thanks for having me. I think you know, number one kind of the political sphere was something I was always interested in from a very young age. I didn't know quite what you could do with it right, and that you could make a career in this kind of public opinion political sphere, but I knew I wanted to be in it right, and very interested in that, and it was that.

Speaker 2: 1:26

And athletics, right, I was in two realms and it's kind of, you know, there's a lot of overlap, right, because competition, right, there's winners, there's losers, there's, you know, you've got campaigns, whether you're fighting on behalf of an issue or a candidate, or a cause or whatever it is, or a cause or whatever it is, um, you know. And then you, you know the great thing about the U S is is that the you know the sun will always rise the next day, no matter if you win or lose. And you get to, you get to fight another battle right, just like you get to, hey, another at bat or another game right, you get to play Uh, so, uh, that was always kind of a a a focus for me. And then, uh, coming right out of college I was lucky enough to get a job on a governor's race in California pretty quick and kind of a unique thing and to be involved in something so big and massive right away. I think I was like maybe the fifth or sixth person hired onto this governor's race that eventually had you know 80 people or you know 70 or 80 people on it, and so I was. I was there kind of from the beginning till till the very end and then it just kind of, you know, snowballed from there.

Speaker 2: 2:35

I worked on a number of different campaigns. I was very active in candidate campaigns early on in my career candidate campaigns early on in my career from congressional to, as I mentioned, gubernatorial and others. I came up to Sacramento. I took a job. A friend of mine was elected to the California State Assembly and he asked me to be his chief of staff and I decided to do that and come up to Sacramento. I knew I always wanted to come up to Sacramento. It's weird, a lot of people want to go to DC.

Speaker 1: 3:10

Yeah, that's unusual, right. A lot of folks want to go East Coast and then they find their way back.

Speaker 2: 3:15

Yeah, and I certainly was offered some East Coast and DC jobs. But you know, for me it was always, you know, born and raised in California. I kind of wanted to, wanted to keep my roots here, although I do now, obviously, and have for four years worked all across the country. But I never kind of took that, that DC plunge which was, which was a little bit unique, no-transcript about 14 years or so. And so Wayne came to me and he said, hey, are you interested in taking this over? I'm getting out, and if you want to do that, let's figure out a way to do that. And if not, hey, that's fine, we'll kind of have an off ramp and figure out where all the team members and staff and make sure everybody has a good place to land and do all that and that's it. But ultimately I decided to take the plunge, you know buy a small business and that was, you know, in this industry and go that route, which was, you know, looking back 2019, obviously just a little bit before 2020 and the whole COVID, you know, shutdown Maybe not the ideal time to purchase a business and kind of strike out on my own with that, but nevertheless something I did and I don't regret it in one bit and I've really enjoyed. I think one of the things that I found is that I enjoy a lot of people in our business, right, they like to do the work right, the communications, the in our business, right, they like to do the work right the, the communications, the, the, the battle, the fight, the, you know, all of the client work, all of those types of things, the campaigns. I enjoy that. But I also enjoy the business part of it and running and operating a business and I like that quite a bit.

Speaker 2: 5:38

I, I did, did probably about 12 years ago. I went back to, went back to school, went to graduate school, got an MBA, which was interesting. I really, really enjoyed that, thoroughly enjoyed it, and it was great going back to school and doing that kind of thing, undergraduate school, years and years and years ago. Kind of people in our, inclined in our way, whether it's, you know, communications or public affairs or politics, tend to go the legal route or maybe think about law school. I was dissuaded from that by some great folks and just took a different direction. But very glad I went to business school and it has yielded dividends since then. But that's kind of where I came from and kind of my trajectory.

Speaker 1: 6:30

Yeah, I think you and I are two of the very few people who have MBAs in this funny industry and it's helpful, right, I mean, if you have a passion for what you do, right, it's communications, that is first and foremost. But understanding business and really enjoying it, uh, I think that is, um, I don't know if it's it's completely unique, but it's pretty unusual. Um, and there's a lot of businesses that, uh, that struggle because they forget what they're doing. Right, and and, and you know, the fun stuff is is the actual kind of meat and potatoes what we're doing, but the, the other stuff that can be fun if you understand it a bit and really enjoy it is what, what goes into the day-to-day of making sure you make payroll and you plan for the future and and you don't get caught unawares. We all get caught unaware sometimes. I mean, you can't, you can't forecast COVID, that's for sure. What's, what's it like? Buying a business, what? What was that whole process like?

Speaker 2: 7:28

Some of my friends call me, you know, the most cautious person that they know. Right, and so and I think that that's true to a degree I'm very cautious in in a lot of what I do and very deliberate, and I think I took that same approach to you know, purchasing this business and taking it over, and it's unique because the business had been around I mean, it was founded in 1983 and I'm purchasing this and kind of taking it over in 2019, the beginning of 2019. So you're talking about a lot of years. People you know I was taking on employees, some of which who had been with the business much longer than I had, have been working for the business for 25 years. You've got all of that history and processes and the way things have been done for years and years, for years and years, and you know, jumping in and even though I'd worked, uh, as vice president for the for the business for you know, for for 14 years, um, it's a completely different animal. When you're in charge, you're making the decisions. You're deciding. You know where you're going to bank. You're deciding are you going to continue with a 401k that you've had, how do you offer and what kind of medical insurance package do you choose for your employees? Do you offer dental insurance? What are the different things? Right, all of the things that go into that.

Speaker 2: 8:56

And then also knowing and understanding your numbers, which I think is you know from a business standpoint, that is fundamental right. You know from a business standpoint, that is fundamental right and it's like that way with you know. I talk about it also in terms of polling and communications. You got to know your numbers. You have to know that. That's basic, fundamental. Know the data, understand the data.

Speaker 2: 9:21

Business is the same way and that was something that I embraced you know very early on and looked at okay, what are our numbers? Where do I want to be here in the short term, but also, you know, long term, and then you get thrown. You know, just like life, all kinds of curveballs, and who knew we were going to have, you know, a COVID shutdown? Who knew all of these things were going to kind of take place? And we were had to be nimble, and certainly in our line of work it was probably a and we had to be nimble and certainly in our line of work it was probably a little bit easier to be nimble than someone who has a.

Speaker 2: 9:50

You know brick and mortar storefront and they're selling, you know, widgets or whatever it is, or a restaurant or those types of things, and they certainly adapted. But there were adaptations we had to make, uh, you know, during that time. But but it was buying and taking over a business was was was one of the most fun things I've ever done, was one of the toughest things I've ever done, and you know. But looking back I don't regret it one bit and I'm very, very glad I kind of took that, took that leap and through, through caution aside, you know, in a way to do it.

Speaker 1: 10:22

Do you find that that knowledge you have? One of the challenges in our business is demonstrating ROI right, because we're not in the business of selling stuff where an ROI is definitively associated with sales whether that's a service or a thing or whatever, you know pretty clearly whether your investment has a return. In our business it's a little more opaque and it's always one of the challenges is illustrating where their investments are paying off. There are a number of ways to do that, but have you found that that conversation that you have with owners or leaders of whether it's a business or an interest group or a nonprofit or whatever it might be, your ability to understand a balance sheet and speak to it, your ability to understand the mechanics of a business and investment and speak to that has that helped in you owning a communications business?

Speaker 2: 11:15

A hundred percent Because if you have the ability, I mean there are fundamental kind of truths to all businesses, right. And again, going back to what you talked about, you know understanding the balance sheet, understanding P&Ls, understanding kind of how things need to operate from a process standpoint. Internal and external communications for a business is is. You know allocating money and funds and kind of leading the ship, what decisions they have to make based on the work that you're doing or that you're offering you know to do for them. And, like you said, what's the ROI return? You know the return on on the investment.

Speaker 2: 12:07

One of the biggest, one of the first things that always gets cut. I mean you've seen this, I'm sure is if you are a company, whether it's corporate, whether it's an organization, interest group, that type of thing, one of the first things they cut is their public affairs, government affairs or kind of political advocacy budgets, right, if, when times are lean, what it's easy, it's very hard to define, what the ROI is, right, it's kind of you know a little bit, you know just, you know can be not clear to some folks, and so it's one of the first things that they'll cut. And so you know, when times are lean. You know, the big challenge and task for people with our kind of business is okay, yeah, what is our value and how do we sustain? And maybe even how do we sustain and how do you retain us at maybe something that might be a little bit more affordable, or understanding of the fact that they're going through lean times. That might be a little bit more affordable, or understanding of the fact that they're going through lean times.

Speaker 2: 13:08

You know, because, uh, in any biz, our business, or any business you'd rather, you know, keep a client, existing client, uh, and and and cultivate that existing client rather than lose a client. And now we've got to go find more right, it's easier and and it's it's always better and easier to to to keep a client, a client, than to go, you know, kind of build a new one. So you want to do everything you can to do that. But I think that being able to understand kind of the decisions that have to be made by you know, by the clients that we work for, you know that has been very helpful in a number of situations has been very helpful in a number of situations.

Speaker 1: 13:48

I want to go back when you first cut your teeth in politics, because I think it's always telling in any industry what does that look like? In development, you're starting, you're the guy or gal sent out to evaluate dirt right and in California, nine times out of 10, that's somewhere in the middle of the desert You're trying to figure out how to be that tip of the spear of identifying the unknown and, over time, turning it into something valuable for the client. In politics it is a very unique space right, fast-paced, not a whole lot of definition. What was that like for you? I mean gubernatorial campaign. First crack out of the box.

Speaker 2: 14:33

Well, you know it's changed, right, and I think some of us who you know have been around for a little bit, have talked about how it's changed. And you know young people coming up today, you know college graduates, that type of thing. They're wired a little bit differently Not bad, just different. When I was coming up, the one thing that we did was we'll do anything, what do we need to do? And the last question we usually asked was how much does it pay? Because we valued and put a premium on the experience.

Speaker 2: 15:08

If you could work on a gubernatorial campaign or if you could work on a congressional campaign, that was a top-targeted race or those types of things, that was the value that was going to benefit you five and 10 years down the road, and so you were willing to sacrifice, I mean pay, I mean I, I. If you looked at what we actually got paid or versus the hours that we worked, I mean it was, you know, I mean it's almost in the negative category, right, um, but, but we didn't. But that wasn't what we valued, right, we valued the, the experience and that and building our resume, and that was really kind of the thrust of, you know, our mindset, kind of working our way up in the, in the, in the public affairs and political. You know ranks and we were willing to do. You know, hey, we slept on couches, and you know.

Speaker 2: 16:08

And hotels, you know five to a room in a, you know in a place that you know should take two people, right, and you know, for months, and you know drove, you know drove miles and miles and miles and never asked for a gas reimbursement. Right, just figured out. Hey, how am I going to get this? How am I going to get this paid? Hey, mom and dad, can you loan me 20 bucks? You know that kind of thing, you own a pickup truck.

Speaker 1: 16:34

Yeah, you're going to be moving every time.

Speaker 2: 16:38

Yeah, it's like you know. Hey, can you deliver?

Speaker 2: 16:41

these yard signs all over the place or whatever. It is right, and the answer always had to be yes, right. There was never a no right, it was always can you do this? Yes, I can do it. Can you do it? Yes, I can do that. And if you wanted to be successful, that's what you said.

Speaker 2: 16:55

And again I come back to the experience. I think today it's changed a little bit, where the value isn't so much on the experience, right, and gaining the experience, and I think that's important but you know, the value is more on okay, what does this pay? And it's just the changing of the times, right, and the way that, the way that employment laws and jobs and everything else is structured, and and so I don't, I don't begrudge, you know, begrudge folks. You know coming right out of school and and and doing that. You know having that mindset and those set of priorities. It's just kind of the way it is right now.

Speaker 2: 17:36

You know, today, if you said an intern 20, 25 years ago, right, that meant you weren't getting paid anything and you were just like showing up every morning and you're, you know, you're showing up at 6 am.

Speaker 2: 17:48

You know cutting out clips from newspapers and you know doing different things and hey, whatever it was, it was needed. You say intern today there was a salary expectation with that right and again, just the way that the business and business in general has changed and so that's different. But I do think that there was a distinct value in gaining the type of experience where you really were cross-trained on so many things cross-trained on polling, cross-trained on communications and media, cross-trained on grassroots and field cross-trained on being able to engage with high net worth individuals who are donors and leaders and influencers and those types of things. How to be able to engage with grassroots volunteers who are licking envelopes and putting stamps on and then doing that yourself as well. So I think there's a value to that experience and again, I don't begrudge the money, part of it coming in these days but I do think that some of the value of that experience has been lost.

Speaker 1: 19:00

When thinking about things that have changed in the communications industry, in the communications world, whether it's political communications or advocacy communications, what have you seen? Stay the same, that should, that you think is best. And what's changed? And change for the better, change for the worst.

Speaker 2: 19:19

Well, number one. I think you know the value of survey, research and polling right Understanding public opinion. Certainly, there have been some changes in terms of modes of communication, how we reach voters and how we reach people, how we reach consumers, but the value of that information is still as important today as it was five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. It's critical information to know. We have to have that, you have to understand the data, you have to be data-driven and you have to, you know, not just be guessing right on things, because we do have the information so that we don't have to guess. I think that that has stayed the same and I think it ought to stay the same and I think it's critically important.

Speaker 2: 20:11

You know, what has changed obviously is, I think the biggest thing and I was talking about it yesterday was, you know, the influence of AI on communications. And the fact is is that, you know, you now have the ability to manipulate almost anything. I can. You know, in the 80s we had Max Headroom right who was kind of this almost AI, digital generated you know guy who could, you know, say or do anything, and and it was, it was kind of interesting. But now we can, you know, take uh, Donald Trump or Kamala Harris or, um, you know uh, heads of corporations, jamie Diamond or others, and make them say or do anything and it looks absolutely real on screen.

Speaker 2: 20:57

And so I think, and so the biggest thing is number one, is that kind of that deep that, that fraud that could occur by doing that with individuals, uh and um, and losing credibility with, you know, with audiences? Can they believe really anything To understanding that there is a deep tradition of humor and parody and those types of things in American and international politics, if you will? I mean going back to the founding of the country where humor and parody was such an integral part, but it relied on people understanding that that was indeed parody and indeed humor, that the audience was in on the joke, right, they weren't trying to be misled, that they were in on the joke, they understood it and you know, and it kind of went from there. So I think that's probably the biggest difference in just kind of what AI will do, generative AI is going to do, and kind of how that will evolve here over the next few years.

Speaker 1: 22:06

That's generative AI and yeah, it is a big deal and we're seeing it every day In terms of AI as a tool. Are you seeing that? Are you implementing it? Are you incorporating it? Are you seeing opportunity there? There's a lot of huff and puff about AI being a panacea, right, but you know, like any tool, does it have value? Is it something that's going to be useful in this industry, or what are you seeing around that?

Speaker 2: 22:37

Well, I think we have to get beyond the term of AI, right, I mean, it's this kind of big, huge, all-encompassing oh, this is AI. Oh, this is AI. Well, we've had AI for years. Right, this is not new, necessarily. Some of the ways that we can use it are rapidly expanding and evolving and the way people are using it is a little bit new. But AI as a tool, you know, is not new. Google is AI. Right, the whole concept of Google is AI. It's been around, you know, for decades, right, we've had that. And so I think that, as a tool, there is value. There is value in parts of AI and, again, you know, using it to, you know, let's say, on the most basic level, right, if you're talking about kind of how people are talking about it, you know, right now, in kind of the most current events.

Speaker 2: 23:32

Is this parody and humor and making Donald Trump or Kamala Harris or somebody say different things than what they actually said and doing that? Again, it goes back to are you, is the audience in on the joke? Do they understand that that this is a parody, that this is a joke, that this is a? You know that this is something humorous or is it intended to be a fake, intended to mislead, right? What is the intention? That's hard to kind of get at is. Is what the what? The intention of the creator? Uh, is Um, but it's you know. It goes back to that old adage of you know pornography, right, you know when you see it, right?

Speaker 1: 24:13

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:15

You know, and I think, and I think as an industry, right, as a communications industry, whether you are in consumer communications and whether in in political communications and in more public affairs and issues, you have to be super careful because you have to be real, you have to be authentic. You cannot I think, just from a from an ethics and integrity standpoint mislead the viewer. Um, if you are going to use humor, satire, parody, any of those things, you have to make sure that the audience is in on the joke and that it's clear and that, if not, it can cause some serious and significant damage to reputations, to, um, you know, to care for that and and to really maintain a high, high level and standard of of kind of ethics. Uh, otherwise, uh, you're going to be in a situation where it is going to, they're going to start regulating communications, and that's a dangerous road to go down.

Speaker 1: 25:24

And these things. You when, when folks deploy stuff like that, there are also unintended consequences. Right, you know communications know when, when folks deploy stuff like that, there are also unintended consequences. Right, you know communications can, can, can bite back on the hand that delivers them, and sometimes it can be easy to reflexively say I can get this out there, it's going to be effective, it's going to be interesting. But you always have to think through what the potential backlash could be. Right, and people don't like being defrauded, they don't like being made fools of.

Speaker 2: 25:52

That's got a lasting tale right it is and, again, the ethics of it is bad, right, it is something that you know as an industry we need to discourage.

Speaker 2: 26:06

We need to be very clear in that I think have some, you know, be outspoken, but you're right, I mean the damage that can be done but comes back to the you know, unintended consequences of any communications message right, that comes back to bite. You is coming back to your data, your research, the work that you've done on kind of the quantitative and the qualitative research that you've done and being very disciplined to that and focused on that and data-driven. And if you are, you know, your communications right, provided that they're, you know, authentic, real and you're communicating in a very direct way with whoever your audience is, way, with whoever your audience is, is your risk of backlash lessens because you understand how different messages are going to impact certain groups of people. And I think that's what makes the science part of our industry, super critical, super important, and why we have to, I critical, super important, and you know why we have to, I think, be you know coming back to the disciplined approach of of you know being being data-driven in communications.

Speaker 1: 27:19

Wrapping up um what do you? What do you do? Um? Stay focused, stay energized uh, you know, be able to get up and and enjoy what you do every day and be effective at it. You know, outside of work, what does that take?

Speaker 2: 27:34

Well, a couple of things. Number one I think that you know any good, any good leader, any good, um, and whether you're leading a, you're leading a team, you're leading a family, you're leading a business, you're leading anything, right, anything we're, and we're all leaders. Uh, you have to do something athletic. I'm just, I'm a big believer in that. You've got to be active and I don't care what it is, it is, it could be, you know, something you enjoy, right, maybe it's riding a bike, it's taking a walk, right, that's athletic, absolutely Taking a walk, going, you know, and something you do every day, whether it's, you know, maybe you're coaching a team, right, your kids, or maybe another youth team, or something like that. Maybe you're just going out and playing, you know, playing catch with your, you know, with your son or daughter, or kicking the ball around, but doing it on a regular basis. Maybe you're, hey, you know what? I played tennis in high school and I go out every, you know, couple nights a week and I'm playing pickleball now, right, and I'm playing, you know. Or I'm playing tennis and I'm doing doing that kind of thing. I think that's critical. You have to do something like that, because so much of the, of the of of kind of the physical. You know the endorphins, everything that you get from physical activity, everything you get from, you know, being physically active positively influences you as as a leader being sharp, being mindful, being able to be focused, being able to have the stamina to sustain, especially when things get very stressful, and you also have to have that outlet. I think that's number one.

Speaker 2: 29:01

Number two is and this was one thing that we actually learned in business school and I forget which course it was and I forget which course it was right and there was this but I remember the professor. His name was Leon and Leon was a professor from Switzerland and had a very heavy Swiss accent and he was extremely European and nobody in my class and cohort liked Leon because it was his grading wasn't clear and all that kind of. But one thing that he really stressed and focused in this particular course was the fact that to really create and to think through and to plan and develop, you needed to take time and he backed this up with data and research that had been conducted to sit and do nothing, to meditate, to whether that is, you know, for 30 minutes or an hour, whether it's just sitting in your office and literally doing nothing right, and maybe, as things come to you, you take notes, maybe it's you go sit in your backyard or on your patio or on, you know, or in a coffee shop, but do nothing right, no, just you know. No. No, no music, no, just nothing right. And just kind of be alone with your thoughts and with your planning and you will start to create and your mind will start to create and it'll start to focus, it'll start to organize, it'll do all of those things and it will help you be better organized, be more planned, be much more creative each and every day.

Speaker 2: 30:40

If you took time to do that and it had to be kind of this sacred space, right, and the research showed if it was a sacred space of like 30 minutes to an hour, and I went through various, you know, high level CEOs who had done, you know, who had practiced these types of things and had these types of habits uh and just and just the value of that.

Speaker 2: 30:58

And so I think those two things that the, the being athletic every day, and the other thing is is, um, you know, is is taking time to be, to be mindful, to be alone, is is that you know and this is one thing I, I, you know, I talk to people about a lot is you know. The saying is you know how you do anything is how you do everything right, how you, you know how you engage with individuals just on a daily basis, when you're at the store or what. That's how you're going to engage with clients. The detail you show in just making your bed and putting away items you know or do. That's the detail you're going to show. Just coming back to that phrase of how you do anything is how you do everything and um and I think that is something that I try to think about you know consciously every day.

Speaker 1: 31:53

It's fantastic advice and um, and it's hard to keep to right, cause everybody gets time pressures and it is the easiest thing you can do in life, and we're all guilty of it Maybe you less than others. I'm certainly guilty of it is when things get tight, things get compressed, those things that we have to prioritize because they allow everything else work. They seem less important and they get kicked off the schedule for the day, and they have to be maintained. They have to be kept precious. It's just been an absolute pleasure having you here, tim. I couldn't thank you more. It's been terrific. All right, take it easy, thanks. Thank you for tuning in to Interesting People. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you liked what you heard, be sure to subscribe, rate and review the podcast on your favorite platform, and don't forget to follow us on social media for updates and behind-the-scenes content. I'm Justin Wallen and until next time, remember that the world is more interesting with you in it.