The After Life Insurance Podcast
The After Life Insurance Podcast is a place where we can explore a variety of topics surrounding death and dying through open, honest, real, and raw conversations.
I see life and death as two sides of the same coin. Each experience is beautifully connected to the other. Not separate, but working in tandem to aid in our Soul's evolution.
Preparing to die better allows us to live better and that living better prepares us to die better. Two sides of the same coin.
When life is a celebration, death becomes the afterparty 🥳 👻 🎉
The After Life Insurance Podcast
Unlocking Psychic Abilities & Ancient Wisdom w/ Kara Gurney
Unlocking Psychic Abilities & Ancient Wisdom w/ Kara Gurney
This episode was SO much fun, I got to talk with psychic medium Kara Gurney about her journey into the world of psychic abilities and mediumship.
Kara shares insights on developing psychic gifts, the connection between emotions and physical health, and the rising global energy that's awakening dormant abilities in many.
In this episode we explore topics like ancient civilizations, water's intelligence, and the future of human consciousness.
Kara's unique background and spiritual insights offers a fresh perspective on energy, healing, and our connection to the natural world.
Timestamps:
03:02 Kara's Personal Journey
05:27 The Power of Psychic Development
08:55 Healing Through Psychic Readings
15:08 Understanding Psychic and Mediumship Work
19:54 Challenges and Growth in Psychic Abilities
28:51 Connecting with Ancestral Lineage
32:09 The Spiritual Significance of Water
35:48 Rediscovering Ancient Wisdom
37:24 Cultural Connections to the Stars
41:57 Healing Through Architecture and Geometry
45:33 The Importance of Energy Management
57:45 Navigating Psychic Abilities in Daily Life
01:07:13 Concluding Thoughts and Contact Information
About the Guest:
Kara Gurney is a gifted psychic, medium, and intuitive healer based out of Sydney, Australia. With a background in architecture, Kara brings a unique perspective to her spiritual work. She specializes in providing insights on physical and emotional healing, ancestral connections, and personal growth. Kara's journey into psychic development began after a profound personal loss, leading her to explore various spiritual practices including shamanism and Maori traditions.
Book a reading with Kara @ Kara.Intuitive@gmail.com
Guest Links:
✦ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kara_aroha/
Podcast links:
✦ Website: https://talipodcast.com
✦ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6nwM5YRuHLzqu4EFUjIOQ5
✦ ApplePodcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-after-life-insurance-podcast/id1756333895
✦ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxeVI2Lu-UUyS7CR_-9g-XtMf3CoMZuNF
My links:
✦ Website: https://aliwiv.com
✦ The New Money Paradigm Masterclass: https://tnmp.aliwiv.com/TNMP-opt-in
✦ IUL Deconstructed Webinar: https://aliwiv.com/iul-deconstructed-opt-in
✦ More Free Resources: https://aliwiv.com/resources
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✦ This video was made with DeScript, the best AI enhanced video recording and editing software in the known Universe:
I do believe that everyone can develop their psychic abilities we all have these inherent gifts. If we start to remember how magnificent we are, I think we can achieve wonderful things for humanity as well.
Ian Vogel:What is up? This was such a fun conversation and I'm super excited to share it with you. On today's episode, I have Kara Gurney, who is a psychic and a medium. She talks about her journey developing her psychic and mediumship abilities and how she believes everybody has psychic abilities. I firstt met Kara through getting a reading from her and it was really incredible. She is super skilled and super talented at what she does. And in addition to the psychic and mediumship work, we talk about metaphysical principles, ancient history, shamanism, and a whole lot more. This is an awesome episode. And if you're interested in getting a reading from Kara, which I highly suggest, her information is in the show notes. So be sure to check her out. And Without any further ado, let's get into it. What's up y'all? I'm Ian Vogel and this is the Afterlife Insurance Podcast. Today I am super excited to talk to our special guest, Kara Gurney. I met Kara about a year ago and she gave me a psychic reading. And I was completely floored. I had no idea what I was getting into or what the experience was going to be like. I'd had some psychic experiences before myself, but I'd never been in a situation where somebody else would read for me and The experience I had with Kara was pretty incredible and I think we talked for about an hour and I think for about 50 minutes of that hour my eyes were teared up or I was actively crying. It was super touching, super personal and Yeah I'm again, I'm really excited to talk to Kara and learn more about her story and how she came to, to do what she does with her psychic readings and beyond that, outside of it. So yeah, welcome Kara. It's good to, it's good to see you and it's good to talk to you again.
Kara Gurney:Thank you, Ian. It's wonderful to talk to you too. And thank you again for letting me have the opportunity to read for you around last year. It was really good.
Ian Vogel:That was a really special experience for me and I was, again, I was absolutely blown away by how accurate that was for that period in my life. We exchanged a couple of messages via Facebook messenger, set up the appointment and got into the conversation. We'd really had no prior exchange of information whatsoever. We just basically met, you went into your reading and yeah, and it just went from there and so, yeah, I'd love to, I'd love to hear about how you got started. with, you know, on this path, and like where did it all begin for you?
Kara Gurney:yeah, so I'll probably go back a bit to 2018 when my father passed away quite suddenly and I was living with him at the time and I was mentioning to you, I think that three months prior to that, I'd had a dream that he would collapse and strangely enough, he ended up. Passing in a very similar manner to what I dreamt three months prior. And it was a friend at work that said to me, I think you've had a premonition. And I think when something profound like losing a loved one that's very close to you happens, it can really shake things up. And so for me, that really opened up. This questioning about like the afterlife where do we go? I've always believed just naturally, I've just always felt like we don't disappear, like our energy can't just vaporize. I love Thich Nhat Hanh's analogy about us being like clouds and it was quite beautiful because one of my friend again from work when my father passed sent me his, I think it's a video he's done or a quote about how we just transform into another state so we can go from the rain to the cloud. And that really resonated with me and it helped me understand the process. My father's spirit was going through as well. And then come, I think it was around 2020 and I'm based in Sydney, but we went into this quite serious lockdown and a friend sent me a, like a Christmas present. It was a kundalini awakening meditation package. And I had no idea what kundalini was, didn't know what kundalini awakening was, but I thought, well now's the time to do it because I'm in isolation. So I began It was a process of working with the Ho'oponopono I think it was the Hawaiian prayer meditation instructions for cord dissolving. And every day I meditated for one hour a day, three times a day with my feet in salt water. And there were other aspects to this too. But I also, I did that, you go for as long as you felt, and for me, I went for about three months, and by the third month, I couldn't, like, it was amazing, I had some experiences where I would describe, It has a light being came in and gave me a gift and one was to hear and one was to the heart and I remember not understanding at all what that might have been. But I think this is what led me to then sign up for a psychic development course. And I had no expectations of what to expect, but I contacted Eloise who had advertised through an acupuncturist. That I trust in Melbourne and once speaking to Eloise on the phone, I was like, no, I really want to do this. And it was more for my own energetic protections. Because I would think when I think back to my twenties, I've definitely experienced a psychic attack or, I would call myself an empath too, so I'm more sensitive to other people's energy. So I really only signed up for her psychic development for my own personal energetic management in a way, but what it ended up becoming was something much greater. And yeah, to, to this day, I think I was mentioning to your partner, Frankie it's really changed my life. You look at things in a completely different way. I think one aspect that blew me away is that you're no longer a victim, like you are more empowered. If things happen to you, I think of it more in terms of what's the lesson I can learn from this. And yeah, and I can't speak to the techniques that we learned in our course, because it's through a lineage where it has to be sort of respected and, passed on to those that hold the knowledge. So, but I'm just trying to think how to describe it. So each month we would work through one of our chakras and that blew me away as well, because I'd never done container work before. So we were in a container where a lot of us were finding events happening in our lives related to each of these chakras. But again, I had no understanding of what chakras were. I came in very naive but I feel so lucky that I had stumbled across a trusted teacher because I've since heard that it is a difficult space to navigate in in the spiritual world. So yeah, I feel really lucky. Yeah.
Ian Vogel:I can about imagine that it's like any kind of spiritual teaching. Like you said, it's important to find a teacher with integrity, someone you can trust, someone that you resonate with, someone who walks the walk and talks the talk, so to speak. And I find it super interesting that you. You started with the course without having any intention of actually reading for other people or taking further. So that's cool. That's, I mean, I think that just speaks to your willingness to kind of go with your intuition and follow what feels right. So that's super cool.
Kara Gurney:Yeah, even now I'm always surprised if I do a reading for someone and it always feels like an amazing gift, like the fact that I'm able to actually pass the message on. So I'm often thanking my guides and their guides. This is my language and how I understand it to work, but yeah, it just feels like a tremendous honor that you've given that privilege, particularly because sometimes the information can be so personal and it can be really it can very much, I feel, shift the energy of the individual and help them heal. So for me, the most rewarding aspect of this work is helping someone heal energetically or whether it's, there might be something traumatic that's happened in the past that could be impacting their health physically. So those are the aspects that I find the most rewarding.
Ian Vogel:I kind of wanted to touch on that. So you're able to, get information or tap into something that allows you to get information. You said it from maybe from the person's guides that allows them to receive some sort of physical healing or a better understanding around some sort of physical situation that they're going through or they have gone through. Is that a like a reoccurring theme that you deal with your clients?
Kara Gurney:Yeah, I've definitely noticed that healing and health is the main focus coming in with lots of readings. It's and the other part that for me, I mean, if you're an energetic healer, you probably already know this or a kinesiologist, you already have this awareness. But for me, it was really profound hearing what spirit is saying with regards to your emotions and where the emotions can be stored in the body. So I remember having one reading for a client and I could see an area where there was a lot of red energy and when I see red it's normally it will be associated with anger, but they said that this relationship with your father has to be healed because it's causing this, almost like a growth. I didn't know anything about her health history so I keep pointing under here because it was underneath the ribcage. And then after the reading she said, I've just gone and had a biopsy to check a benign tumor there or something along those lines. And she said thank you so much for explaining which relationship, because she'd been working with a Reiki practitioner and all they could figure out was that it was a broken relationship. And they thought it might have been a past lover, but it was actually to do with the father wound. So when you get that kind of confirmation come back that there is this physical ailment that's real, that you can physically measure scientifically. I think that was when I realized that this is really profound and I'm really lucky that I could help in some way. Yeah, that, that was one example that really hit me.
Ian Vogel:Wow. That's really incredible. And the fact that you don't have any prior knowledge of the person's physical history or their health history is pretty remarkable. You mentioned like information is coming to you and, in that instance, you saw the color red. I'm curious, how do you perceive the information that's coming in? I've done a lot of work in plant medicine ceremonies and one thing that I've noticed is that everybody has a different way of perceiving information as it comes in. Some people in that space, they have a lot of visions and they're very visual. Some people like myself, like rarely have visions and it's more like information coming into the into my crown, into the top of my head, and just an understanding of what's going on. Some people hear things, some people smell things, so I'm really curious as to your experience and how you perceive the information that comes in.
Kara Gurney:When I first started in level one, for me, my strongest Clare would have been Clairvoyance, so I would often see, but then the difficult thing was understanding what they're showing me, because sometimes it'll be metaphorical or symbolic, so I've noticed there's certain visual language in things I'll see, so for some reason if there's something related to finances, in someone's reading. I'll often see the analogy of water, but I, from my teacher's perspective, she said often water's related to emotions. But in a lot of readings I've seen like, one person was having money issues, but they'd left the tap running. So there was this idea that the water, the money that was coming in was flowing straight out, but it's almost like they're losing too much because the water's running everywhere. So there'll often be images like that. But as my, As I stayed in the container for level one and two with Elouise's training my other clears became more developed and I think once my clear audience, which is the hearing, became more developed, stronger. It's just become so clear and it's so fast. I also developed my clear sentience more, which is the feeling. So often before a reading, before someone's either coming to see me or before I do get on the call, I just stand in my own body. and sense where I'm being pulled. So I had one reading where beforehand when I was preparing my hips were just completely skewed and they will exaggerate that. And then once I'm reading in the space with the client, often clear audiently, a lot more information will come in to clarify what that's about. And one thing I think it's really important to mention too is always be discerning because when I always start, before I start preparing for a reading through my training with Elouise, she was always very particular about being discerning about who's giving you the messages which spirits because we sort of, I'm not an expert on the dimensions, but as I understand it, you can have a higher dimensional being and then a lower and there's different levels. So before I start reading for someone, it's always important checking that to ensure the integrity for the client as well, make sure that they're receiving the messages are in their highest, best interest. I've been tested as well, over my training, my own discernment has been tested where I feel like there's been little moments where I'm tested on my trusting as well, like trusting in my intuition and not handing your power over to someone else. So I always say to my clients, you have free will, you're never you never have to adopt anything that doesn't resonate. And then I reflect too on readings I had when I was younger and I've had, and then I think, Oh yeah the reader shouldn't have said that because you have multiple pathways and timelines you can access in your lifetime. There's no set one path. So, yeah.
Ian Vogel:you know, something that came up for me as you were saying that. And I want to clarify this, and I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly. You know, during a reading, are you receiving information directly from the spirit guides of that person or is that person's spirit guides communicating with your spirit guides and like a relay, or are you connecting directly with their guides? Because it sounds like there's a certain level of, as you said, discernment, but trying to read the metaphors and a certain level of interpretation that goes along with these readings and how you're able to transmit the information then to the person you're reading for.
Kara Gurney:Yeah, I was thinking how to answer this one. So when I read psychically, I believe that I'm picking up the energy of the person I'm reading for. So I could be reading their energy centers and going into their chakras. There might be something in the auric field that's showing. And when I'm reading more on a psychic level, I believe I'm more accessing their higher self. So it could be about things that are bothering them and what. What's on their mind, but as I've gone more into mediumship and that I tend to divorce the two, they send tend to work hand in glove when I read for someone, but as I've developed the mediumship side, often the messages I feel will be coming through a loved one. So I had one client where I felt like a lot of the messaging was coming through a grandmother that passed over. Like about five or six years ago. And then I'm, I still feel like I'm in the process of developing my own spirit team, but I've got a, I've got a particular few that I'm very close to, and then they will be the ones assisting me in a reading, if that makes sense.
Ian Vogel:So it's a bit of a relay like Okay, and what's distinction between like the psychic reading and the mediumship So yeah, my
Kara Gurney:experience with the mediumship so far is it's particularly people that have passed over that are in spirit. Whereas to me I had it described once as the psychic is more the masculine and then the mediumship is more the feminine energy, if that makes sense. So there's like a yin and yang aspect to it. So with the psychic, to me it feels more physical in the sense my clairs have to be operating properly in order for me to pick up the information. Whereas, and it's more about me doing, whereas with the mediumship that's all about receiving. So, it'll be me receiving the messages clear audiently, checking, sometimes I will be checking with them. So hang on. So you mean X, Y, Z, or do you mean this? And then there'll be like quite often they're pretty direct and sometimes they're quite funny. They have a good sense of humor. So there'll be moments where I think the client and I are both talking about a grandfather and we're having a good laugh, cause they can relate to the character coming in or I'll take on their mannerisms. So there was one client where their uncle who they were very close to had passed. And I said, he's saying he's got a really sweet tooth and he loves lamingtons and rumbles. And she's like, he did. Yeah. So there were just moments like that where it doesn't have to be this like really heavy, profound spiritual message, but it'll just be so they understand who's coming in. And I think it's sometimes quite often a confirmation for them, like, cause I can't know that kind of thing. But it gives them that reassurance that. This is someone they remember and know pretty well in spirit. So, yeah, I don't know if that answered your question, but yeah.
Ian Vogel:Yeah, so I guess my Interpretation of what you said is that during the psychic reading, it's more of actually a reading and you're having to get the information or look at it or be more active in the process. Whereas in the mediumship, the person or the being is coming to you and giving you information more directly and there's, yeah, there's less of you having to go and get the information.
Kara Gurney:Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Ian Vogel:Yes, you know, and you've mentioned a couple of times and, you know, and I respect the the teachings and the practices that you've learned and I don't want to necessarily get into the practices themselves, but you mentioned that there is a, like a sort of development that you went through and I'm really curious. What that was like, and like what your experience was in the beginning, he said over time certain senses opened up or became more acute. I'm just really curious about that, like where, how things were when you started and how things are opening up and progressing for you.
Kara Gurney:So yeah, when I was in the container I feel like to be a good reader you have to do a lot of self work that's what I've learned over the past two years of this is that if I've got wounds, they can project onto a client. So if I've worked on myself, I shouldn't then be projecting that onto a client's reading. So there's this sort of responsibility on you to make sure you keep observing yourself as well. But I did notice during our containers, as we moved through the chakras, there was this one month for me, which was like all hell broke loose. And it was in the throat chakra month. And that for me was really, it blew my mind because that's when it really started to land that these events are happening to help me, not so maybe I'll speak a little bit about what happened. So I lived in an apartment in this apartment block and I decided around the time of throat chakra month I would get a puppy. And then I didn't realize, and I like to think I'm considerate, quiet neighbor, but my neighbor then that lived on the other side of me reported me within five days to the ranger, the council, the RSPCA, the building manager and my property manager. And I remember being absolutely petrified. Yeah. And it was funny because it triggered off all these fears. So then I was, I remember sharing in the container. I was fearful of losing my home, being homeless. Like it was extreme. Like I was like, why am I reacting in this way? And then it dawned on me too, that I would have to speak up. Like I had to use my throat chakra to defend myself and but that went on for one and a half years so it was this recurring theme of, it got tested like I felt like we went through the chakras and then I had to be tested again. And I look back and I'm like, wow I'm actually glad that event happened because it was long and ongoing, but it actually helped me push through, I think some blockages and barriers that I'd had in that area. But what I also noticed simultaneously happening was the clear audience developed much faster. So I felt like this event and overcoming these fears within myself, then actually developed the ability of hearing greater, if that makes sense. So, that was one example. Yeah.
Ian Vogel:as I understand it, and as I've learned our energy centers, they're all interconnected. Our energy body is one unit, and when there's an imbalance one, one area, it's likely going to affect other areas. So, I mean, we, we can. Witness that visually, you know, if you're, if you hurt your ankle on one foot, you start to limp and you can develop imbalances in your body and it just makes sense that the same can happen with your energetic body and by,
Kara Gurney:Yep.
Ian Vogel:you know, by healing one area, it's going to allow energy to flow more, more freely, which is going to have maybe some unexpected results in other areas as well.
Kara Gurney:Yeah, and it was interesting because at that time I lived opposite a crystal shop. I now live opposite a crystal shop again. I don't know why, but I'm always surrounded by crystals. But I went straight over to the shop and spoke to the lady that owns it and said I'm really experiencing a full on energy with the neighbor next door, but I feel super disempowered and she said I think you'll find this one really useful, and it was Libyan tektite the desert glass and I started wearing that and I was like, wow, I've suddenly felt like I was in my power again. It was amazing. So I think then it started to really dawn on me the impact that the crystals hold for me too and intuitively what you're drawn to will always be what you need. So there was that beautiful understanding growing in that area too. And like you said, all the chakras are interconnected and It was strange how an event from the neighbor threw out my base chakra. It then threw out the solar plexus and then threw out the throat. Like, but they were all like, I was like, oh no, what's going on? But then to re stabilize and, yeah and then also actually it sparked me to do inner child work because I realized that a lot of these fears coming up in the base chakra were actually related to events that happened when I was a child. So, yeah, I feel like looking back, it was a rocky ride that one and a half years, but it was, it had to happen and it's interesting too, because I have noticed there's often quite themes with readings. So it'll reflect often what's happening in my life. So at the moment, after doing an inner child work with Dean Benson, if anyone's interested it was fantastic. Since then I've been getting people coming to me and often there'll be mother or father wounds that show up and they will then explain where it's impacting areas of their life and how to resolve it. So that seems to be a recurring theme at the moment. So, which again I see it as sort of reflecting something that I've been working on as well. Yeah.
Ian Vogel:So the people who come to you with parental wounding, is it something that they're aware of or are they just aware of the symptoms of the wounding and throughout the reading you're able to diagnose that the root problem is that parental wound? Is that what's happening?
Kara Gurney:Yeah, I think there is a lack of understanding of how it's impacting them emotionally, long term and physically. I had one lady come to me who was very fearful about getting breast cancer again. And her mother passed away last, oh, I think it was last year or the year before. But, and I must clarify, I'm not a doctor so I can't give medical advice, but the messaging coming in from her was that It was to do with a mother wound, like in this neglect in the relationship with the mother and that she was wanting to come in and reassure her that I'm going to be helping work with you on this, but in the dream state, which I found interesting, I've not often had the spirits say they're going to work with you in dream in the dream world. Does that make sense? So when she sleeps will be when her mother tries to come in to mend that relationship with her. And it seemed to be the breast cancer seemed to be very much linked to this very difficult relationship she had with her mother. That was the messaging they were giving me, yeah. And Interestingly I checked in with a friend who's a kinesiologist and she said, yeah, often in our line of work, we see breast cancer as being an issue related to either a sister or a mother. That's a relationship needs to be mended in that department. And I thought, oh, that's interesting because that aligned with the messaging I was getting as well. you know with people who come to you with physical ailments is there always a psycho spiritual aspect to it or are there times where, you know, this person just has a bum knee, or this person just has a thing that is not related to some sort of spiritual connection? I think. I've had a couple of readings where it's literally as basic as, like, you need to eat more green vegetables. Like, just because, you know, your diet's not quite optimal. I think something like that came up for my mother. It was just like, you need to eat more silverbeet. Something like that. And and apple cider vinegar. Something like she needed to get back to having her tonic or something in the morning. And yeah, so in that example, there'd be nothing like, Oh, you're wounded by your father and your blah blah... it is literally just You need to exercise more and walk more or yeah, something like that. So I'm personally really intrigued when it's encompassing something to do with emotions stored in the body because this is a whole area I never considered with my own health. So when I receive a message that blows my mind I learn too, which is again, I feel like such a gift to be able to be learning in the same time as giving and receiving, if that makes sense. Yeah, it's a beautiful balance to that. Yeah.
Ian Vogel:That's really cool. And I'm curious how, long ago did this journey start for you? When did you begin the the psychic course that you're taking or that you took and how long have you been in this role?
Kara Gurney:Yeah. So it hasn't been very long. Oh, I was going to say two years, but it's now 2024. So time's flown. It's probably about four years. Yeah. And I've always been a very spiritual person, but I never carved out the space to pursue this as a career path at all. But I've always been drawn to it. I always used to get my own, like, I would like getting a reading done occasionally. I was always fascinated by how does this work. I was always blown away by that. But one of the most beautiful things that I've noticed with this work is, I also stumbled across shamanism and shamanism wasn't something I'd ever heard of before. And for me, that's been a beautiful coming home to parts of my ancestral lineage, like the Maori lineage that runs through my mother's family line and reconnecting with them, not physically but in spirit. So for me, it's I think that's going to trigger a bit of a family pilgrimage for me and I really want to go back to New Zealand and meet the elders and the Mirai and learn more about their spiritual teachings because it very much aligns with shamanism. So, as I understand it the Maori people believe that the spirits in the sky, the water, the earth, the trees, certain trees are very sacred. Like the Kauri tree and they have beautiful stories about how the Kauri tree separates heaven and earth. And as I've learned and trained more in shamanism, I, my preference is always to journey with a tree. Like, and I just feel like there's this beautiful synchronicities. coming through because of the ancestors wanting me to reconnect with this part of my heritage. So, yeah, I found in the mediumship that came, in the mediumship container training with Eloise, that started to come through very strong. It was big work that one though. It was extremely big heart. I don't know how to describe this, but it's very emotional work because I had did have some ancestors come through that had suffered quite greatly. But it also felt like they were in the container for healing as well. Then I feel like it's really spurred me on to want to understand their story and what they've been through and to honour their lineage as well. Yeah,
Ian Vogel:Wow that's super profound and I mean, I, on a certain level I resonate with you on that growing interest in shamanism, that's been something that I've studied for several years, and thinking about the tree, I had the very great pleasure of doing Shipibo dieta in Peru for two weeks. And I got to diet at a tree called Tamamuri and just connecting with a tree and a really, sacred container like that and being able to it's really hard to put into words, but have a have an energetic connection with the spirit of that plant was an experience that I hold very near and dear to my heart and something that I think of often, and I'm very fond of, yeah the Tamamuri tree. And I hope to go back to Peru someday in the near future and see it again. But that's super cool, and that all came through more so through the mediumship and being able to connect to your ancestry in that way. Yeah.
Kara Gurney:yeah. It became really strong and I think when you're starting to sense energy too you start to realise like I talked to my car, like I have a name my car. So even like animism makes sense to me and I take care of my car. Like I don't, all my belongings. It doesn't feel like I want them to be hurt or damaged in any way. But then also. on a more like nature level. It's like, Oh my gosh, everything's living and existing and there's a spirit within, I believe this is just my feeling, a spirit within everything, and lately I've become really fascinated with the theme of water. So, I often will listen to, I don't know if you've heard of Veda Austin Some of her studies coming out around water. So she's a lady that's based in New Zealand, but she has a method for freezing water and the water will give you images frozen within the water to explain something. It's just blows my mind. And she was talking water in the Maori word means Wairua and Wairua is the I'm not going to get this right, but it's. There's two spirits in the water or some, something along the spirit being within the water. And so, when you get to that level, it's like, wow, there's a living being in everything yeah, I get so excited. I just, yeah.
Ian Vogel:So, what you were describing was that using freezing water and using that as like a tool for divination, like reading the frozen water to get to get information from?
Kara Gurney:As, yeah, as I understand it and as I, almost
Ian Vogel:I've never heard of that.
Kara Gurney:proving that water has its own intelligence, that it's communicating with us, and almost as if like an alien life form. I think she, because she's very scientific in her approach too so I can't remember what she calls her technique, but I've been following her for a year now and it really resonates, because, if we're also predominantly water, it starts to make me wonder, is this how a reading operates? Am I speaking to the spirit of the water in the body? Is it in the energy field? It just made sense to me and helped me understand how a reading might be happening between two people. Yeah
Ian Vogel:what's her name?
Kara Gurney:Veda, V E D A Austin.
Ian Vogel:Veda Austin. I'll definitely have to check her out. That sounds really fascinating research and it reminds me of there's a period of time where I worked with some shamans from Columbia and they're like, Oh yeah, waters, all the waters are different. Like lake water is different than stream water and even like water from one stream is different than water from another stream and rainwater is way different than all the other waters and their experience of the water, like it was clear to them what the difference was, and it was so beyond my perception or anything I'd ever thought of, like, what do you mean? One water is different than the other water. And it was just like, yeah, like, duh. Like
Kara Gurney:Yeah.
Ian Vogel:how can you, how can you not tell? So that's fascinating.
Kara Gurney:yeah, I think the other part to this journey I've been on is, I've always been a bit of a health nut. So I've always been conscious about what I'm eating and making sure I'm getting enough nutrition, but how powerful water can be when you have the right water in healing the body and so on my own journey. I've started water fasting. I've always believed fasting of some kind but the power of water fasting as a healing mechanism and If you do listen to Veda Austin's story, her journey with healing her body with water, if it's the right water, because I think she advocates for natural spring water because it will also have the minerals and content in it it's pretty yeah, it's pretty amazing to think what already we have access to in nature. And where I just feel like there's so much unlocked potential with health and wellness where we can go with this. And maybe I feel to the ancient, I call them the ancient people, but they've always had this knowledge. Like said, the elders you spoke to, they're like, no, there's different types of water. They just intuitively have had this knowledge thousands of years. I feel like we're coming home to that again and reconnecting back to our roots. Yeah.
Ian Vogel:Yeah, I definitely agree. There's an energetic shift happening on the planet. And there's like an upwelling of just ancient wisdom and things that were once lost are now becoming common knowledge again. It's just the changing of the age there is an energy that's breaking down and and what was once here is now becoming again common knowledge and people are learning about what's already always been there in nature. And. In different healing modalities and different ways to, to connect with nature that can bring health to the body and the mind and the spirit and we just forgotten about it or, it had been programmed out of our awareness, either one or both or either, who knows. But you said something about. being extraterrestrial or like a, entity. And that, that sparked something for me because I'd read somewhere that near about 75 percent of the water on earth came to earth from comets. So
Kara Gurney:That's yeah. It's science. That's yeah. It's come from an outer planetary place. Yeah. Yeah. And I, when you say that, I get really excited because I often think of us as we're all from the stars and in Australia, the Aboriginal people. Paid homage to the Seven Sisters, which is the Pleiadian Star Constellation. And as I was learning more about the Maori traditions, we celebrate a new year called Matariki. Sorry about my pronunciation. I don't speak fluent Maori, so I'm probably not saying it with the correct accent. But again, during Matariki, it's paying homage to the Pleiadian star constellation. So there's just these moments where my mind's blown, got completely different cultures, both very ancient and very wise, and they are telling the same story. And Yeah, I just get so excited with that aspect. And to me, this is the truth. I don't want to insult anyone that follows Christianity and things like that, but there's always been something missing in their teachings. I don't know if it's been edited in some way, but when I hear the teachings of these more ancient cultures, there seems, it makes much more sense to me. It just resonates.
Ian Vogel:Yeah. I know the Native Americans of the United States of North America, they have a lot of traditions and a deep understanding of the star people. And they like the Hopi Indians, for example, they came from the stars and they knew it or and there are groups who, who came from holes in inner earth. So there's, it's one of those things where I'm in agreement with you. There's, it's really quite a rabbit hole to go down and fascinating to think about like how all these ancient cultures and when I think of like the Maoris, how they were able to navigate long distances sea without any modern technology. And like, I could barely find the grocery store if I didn't have a GPS, I would go hungry and yet they are getting in a little dugout canoes and going thousands of miles across the ocean By looking at the stars, it's absolutely mind boggling and really cool. And to me, it's, there's like a sense of empowerment. Like those are our ancestors. Like we, we came from. From those people and the knowledge that they had and maintain for many generations, that's still within us in some way, shape, or form. We may not be conscious of it, but I believe our DNA and our genetic material carries some sort of, even if it's epigenetically some information that's, again, now it's getting turned on and people are starting awakened to, what's already there.
Kara Gurney:I, yeah, I totally agree with you. When you say turned on, I feel like, that energy is rising and even for myself, I'd always been intuitive, but something definitely shifted I feel globally in the last few years to cause my own psychic abilities to really switch on and I don't think that's really even to do with my own individual choosing. I think that's about the collective energy rising. And I do believe that everyone can develop their psychic abilities. I'm not sure about mediumship. I don't know whether maybe that's the case. Some may and some may not be able to do it, but with psychic development, I definitely feel like we are magnificent beings and we all come from the stars and we all have these inherent gifts. And I just think our DNA is far more magnificent than we're led to believe. And I think we're coming into this new age that you were talking about where. I'm hoping that memory stored within our DNA starts to come online for a lot of us, because if we start to remember how magnificent we are, I think we can achieve wonderful things for humanity as well. Yeah, so I'm really optimistic about the future. I don't watch the news. I know it's chaos out there at the moment, but I feel the future timelines are, you know, we're coming into this magnificent age. Much greater awareness. Yeah.
Ian Vogel:I totally agree. And, you know, speaking of the future, I'd love to know where you see your practice going and the trajectory how you see your business developing, how you see your ability to open up in the channeling space or in the, yeah, in, in that aspect. What's coming up for you? What direction do you think you're going?
Kara Gurney:I think healing will always be definitely my overarching umbrella. Like I I never want to steer away from that. So if I can be of any assistance in some way to someone's healing, that would be the main aim. I do feel like for me right now, I've got many pieces of the puzzle scattered around, and I'm trying figure out how to piece them together. I don't know if I ever mentioned that I used to be an architect, so it's becoming an interesting, so, when I wanted to study architecture, my deep belief was that buildings can heal our bodies if they're designed in the right way. And again, through doing the psychic development and it's really opened my mind to other teachings. I've become fascinated with biogeometry and sacred geometry and the history of Egyptian structures and the, like the Egyptian healing temple. The geometry is very powerful. So I'm wondering if at some point that aspect of my original training comes in with the psychic mediumship readings in some way, where I don't ever plan to design buildings again, but That understanding of the geometry in space is there some way that I can merge the two aspects? Because it's kind of strange that when I studied architecture, I had this knowing that this is important because it can heal people. And I wrote many essays at university arguing. against philosophers like Foucault, who was saying that architecture has no power unless you have preconceived knowledge. And I'm like, that's so wrong. So anyway, I spent a long time just intuitively trying to fight against that rhetoric. And then I've stumbled across something like the psychic mediumship, where it's to me confirming, no, you had the right idea all along. Our built environment does impact us. I just haven't figured out how I'm going to combine the two yet, but I feel like there's no hurry. It'll happen when it happens.
Ian Vogel:That's really cool. I did not expect that. I did not think you were going to go there, or think you were going to say
Kara Gurney:Sorry. Yeah.
Ian Vogel:That's awesome, and at the same time, wow, that's, just intuitively, I have a sense that, that yeah, there's going to be a merger of those things, who knows what that looks like. I, but I'm not one that really believes in coincidence or that it was, just random that you spent all that time and have that understanding and belief that, that architecture has healing powers. And now you are developing these extra sensory perceptions and these abilities to help people heal. And I guess in a way our bodies are just like biological architecture. Maybe it's something where you're starting to learn about that process, you know, with doing readings on human bodies, and that will expand to being able to read entire buildings and, figure out like how to, yeah, how to do things like that.
Kara Gurney:Yeah. I feel like everything's energy, so I feel like it's that. learning how to move the energy around so that it's harmonious, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's an interesting journey that's come about. I'm excited and I don't feel any pressure to know where it's going. I feel trusting in I'm on the right path now. Yeah.
Ian Vogel:That's cool. So you're, are you working with people and doing readings full time? you mentioned that you've been doing readings for people for some period of time and like, Part of me is, part of me is like, man, just to be a fly on the wall. And some of those readings, it'd be, it would be so cool. And just to see the experiences that you've had with that, I'm sure you could probably write volumes on it already. And so, yeah, I'm curious is this something that you foresee yourself doing in perpetuity for a long period of time?
Kara Gurney:Yeah, I definitely think so. At the moment, I'd probably describe myself as part time reader. Don't really want to energetically. It's a lot of energy to hold. So I think to maintain the quality of the readings I do I wouldn't want to do more than one a day. And I'm really happy with that because I feel like I can deliver a much more useful reading to someone. If I'm managing my energy better as well.
Ian Vogel:really appreciate that. There's a lot of integrity, and something that you touched on a couple times, being self aware and doing the work on yourself. Because, And I think people who, do energy work and people who work in the kind of environments that you work in and do, doing readings, doing plant medicine ceremonies, holding containers and holding space for people to heal. It's like a person's ability to do that work is only as great as their self awareness and their own sense of well being. You know if somebody's not in a good place and or their energy's low or their energy's off that's going to affect everything they do and it becomes particularly tangible when you're doing this sort of really deep and personal work with people. You can't do that work if you're in a bad place and think that it's not going to have an effect on the quality of your work. Or, not even if you're not in a bad place, but if you're run down, if your energy's low, if you're, if you've got something going on in your life that you're not taking care of, like, Like you mentioned, it's doing the, your own personal work is super important. And I think there's a lot of integrity in somebody like yourself, who is being mindful of that. I'm sure you could probably fill up your calendar with readings and doing back to back to back. And you probably wouldn't have the same quality of reading and get the same results for your clients. So I just want to, I just want to acknowledge that and applaud you for it.
Kara Gurney:Yeah. Thank you. And I think when you're doing energy work too, you need to, like you were saying, you need to take care of your own body and manage your energy. So again, I think that's why I've started with water fasting. So I always have one a month to sort of, I do it more, that's a spiritual thing for me as well. So, but it keeps my body. in preparation, I think, for passing the information through, if I'm talking more about the mediumship aspect. If I'm cluttered, I don't see how the quality of the message will come out the right way. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think the other thing too, is I've only just begun this journey and I feel like I'm at the tip of the iceberg of my learning. It's, I think you've been on a longer journey in this space than me, which is fascinating because I feel like even just in this session, I've learned a lot from you as well. But I'm hoping to pursue more training in the shamanism. And I'm fascinated by things like holding ceremonial space, womb work in terms of women's circles and things like that. So, I think I can see myself down the tracks. learning more about that as well. So yeah.
Ian Vogel:That's really cool. And I think like you said, there's a lot of overlap in the work that you've been doing with the mediumship and the psychic development with the shamanism and the more ancient traditions the wisdom traditions In those traditions was and is mediumship and psychic abilities, it's just part of it it's not separate, you know, we from our perspective these are different things. But I think of the story of when Cortez landed in Mexico and he met the Aztecs. The Aztecs called the Spaniards, the Greys and they called them the Greys' because they couldn't see their auras. The Aztec people were so, they were able to see each other's auras all the time. It was just a part of their awareness, and when they saw these people who came off the ship and they didn't have an aura, they associated that with some sort of godhood and they had horses which was another part of it But they associated them not having an auras that they were not human they didn't even recognize them as humans really and there's a whole story around that, But you know what today would be an amazing, fascinating gift that there are, I'm sure there are people out there who have it and utilize it like to, to the Aztecs, it was just like seeing the color green, or it was just like a part of their normal experience. It was. There's no, nothing odd about that.
Kara Gurney:This, I don't know why, but when you were mentioning that and being able to see auras and communicate in that way, I got really excited when you were speaking about how they just naturally would see each other's because it's reminding me of Lumeria and As I understood it, Lemuria was a spiritually advanced civilization where they did communicate telepathically and they did have these strong psychic abilities and they didn't hurt each other and I think I've heard a lot of discussion in I guess you'd say our spiritual new age circles where a lot of that energy is coming back now. So I wonder if that's to do with this rising of the energy we're seeing too. And and then there's also been a lot of discussion where did Lemuria originate from? And I feel certain the Maori people definitely came from Hawaii. So, Then it starts to get me wondering, are they carrying this knowledge from, like, in the DNA, like you were saying, of that history? And yeah, the sky's the limit, or not the limit, but like, where this can go so yeah.
Ian Vogel:I think as time goes on, we're going to be learning more and more about the ancient civilizations, Lemuria, Atlantis, the things that were going on in our deep history. I think of the spiral of ascension, and as you go up you come to the same place and you revisit the same kind of lessons over and over again, and, life, universe, the, you know, And this experience is fractal and as we, as individuals are ascending up the spiral and revisiting the same places. Mother Earth is doing the same thing too. And I can't help but wonder if what we're experiencing now culturally and as a society, all the, you know, as you said earlier, the chaos and all the wild stuff that's going on in the world. I can't help but, on some deep level, wonder if we're revisiting the same place on a much bigger spiral that some of these ancient civilizations have experienced like the fall of Lemuria, the fall of Atlantis, what's going on here, where are we at on this, on the spiral? To me, I think it's interesting to ponder and zoom out and look at things from that much bigger perspective. I think it's very easy to get zoomed in on, on our little place and the situations that we're in, but as you said we come from the stars. We are part of a much bigger story, a much longer timeline than we're aware of.
Kara Gurney:And I really hope to with this rising energy. And I mean, I don't even feel like I need to hope cause I think it's naturally going to happen this way as our psychic senses develop further, you know, we've become more emotionally intelligent where we're going to feel the pain of another human they're suffering and we just won't want to hurt another group of people or another race. And so, I truly believe that's part of this ascension process we're in, like you're talking with the spiral this and that greater awareness, cause we will physically feel it ourselves. And I know people that are empaths already are on that level where they can sense another person's pain. So I hope for humanity's sake, we start to switch that on faster cause I think we need that now. And I might, yeah, I might also say to quite a few of my friends and I that are psychic that train together where we're sort of in this waiting period because we know we're on the higher timeline, if I can put it like that. But when we try to see what's on the other side, we just see the light. It's almost like humanity's collectively creating this, we can't see for sure what it is because it might be something never experienced, or we can't put into words, I guess, but we are seeing a lot of light, so there's a lot of hope on the other side, I feel. Yeah.
Ian Vogel:Yeah I'm very hopeful as well. I believe more in mother nature's healing and regenerative ability than I believe in our ability to screw things up. And we're, as a, as humanity is really trying some aspects of humanity, I should say. And some of the systems that are in place have been designed to, to not be in the best interest of the planet as a whole. But ultimately, I believe in Mother Earth's ability to regenerate and heal. And I think that is, is ultimately going to win out. Yeah.
Kara Gurney:so long and, but she supports us every day too. And I remember having a conversation with a friend who's a very passionate environmentalist and he was getting very upset with everything that's happening in the world. And I said, yeah, but what makes you think mother of nature will tolerate this for much longer? Because to me, she has an intelligence of her own and she'll just be like, you know what? I'll sort this out. That's how I feel about it. Yeah. And I mean, I'm not perfect. I drive a car. You know, I'm not living a lifestyle that's perfect. It's completely off grid, but I would love to one day, but it's, we're all part of the system. So, I feel like collectively as we start, I also think too, the greater we understand that the environment, we are nature, the and how it can affect our health. If we pollute say the water system and how powerful water can be as a healing source for us, then that beautiful symbiotic. relationship can start to grow. Does that make sense? Because we've been so detached. We think it's man versus nature or something. I think we've moved past that now, but yeah, I feel like we need to really start looking into that. Even like the soil, like I love Zach Bush talking about the biophilia and the nutrition and it's like, well, it's all comes back to nature as well. So
Ian Vogel:Yeah. Yeah. A friend told me a metaphor he said, yeah, at some point, mother nature is just going to shake the fleas off. Like to us. It's like, yeah, she's like, she's done it before. You don't see any dinosaurs roaming around, and mother nature is still here and she's still thriving. So I, I'm not too worried about Mother Nature and like you said, I think getting back to connecting with Mother Nature and recognizing that she is our mother and we come from her is really just super important. It's easy to forget in some circumstances, especially when we live in a big city or, know, we get caught up in the rat race and the nine to five and life happens. But but yeah I'm super like you. I'm very much in the belief that despite how things look, there's something good coming and I'm very optimistic about the future and I'm glad to be here to, as part of the collective to, to learn the lessons and do whatever we need to do. And was one other, one other thing that came up, you know, you, you mentioned empaths and that they're beginning to feel more and more acutely what's going on with people around them, like in a very tangible way. With the development of your psychic abilities, I and I'm presuming that along with the training, there is a, Like a protocol or a way to not necessarily turn them off so to speak, but activate or deactivate them or tap into them into those abilities, because I imagined if you wouldn't want to be walking around in a public space and having all your faculties turned up and fully activated. So I'm curious about what that's like.
Kara Gurney:no, I totally relate to that. So yeah, when I was younger, I'm definitely an empath. I felt like a walking sponge. I would, and I was working in corporate too. So I would come home and I would have been feeling fantastic going into the office. And then I would come out just absorbing whatever's been around me. But I had no tools. Like, and I also used to get confused because I couldn't discern what was mine and what was someone else's energy. It just sort of all got absorbed. And so, yeah, by working with Eloise, she gave us quite a number of techniques and some of them are quite, I think I would be able to share them. They're quite probably straightforward, but I always wear a pendant over my solar plexus to protect my solar plexus. I quite often will. I mean, a lot of people probably already do this anyway, but I definitely will smudge my space. Use singing bowl as well. I religiously like swim in the ocean. So the salt water cleanses the aura. And when you say reconnect with nature, the Shuman frequency right now has been off the charts, which I really feel that. So I always go to ground and it's either I go to the trees or I go to the ocean. But I have noticed with these tech, oh, and I also scrub, scrub my body with salt, like a mixture of salt, lavender oil, and I've heard olive oil is really good, but I use sweet almond oil, and I can't describe how energetically it shifts me, like it really does. clear out what's not mine and sends it back, and then I come back into my own body more. If I don't swim in the ocean, I notice it. I probably wouldn't be able to read as effectively because I feel like I'd still be holding energy from other people. And yeah, one last comment on that would be when I first started the psychic work, the training, I noticed when I would be walking around I was picking up psychic information for people in the street, and I remember thinking, saying to Eloise, I keep being told I need to tell this guy that he needs to get his lymph glands checked. And she's like, that means you're too open, you need close down. So like, and it bugged me, because they just wouldn't leave me alone until I passed the message on. So I spoke to her about that and her advice was that means your chakras centers open and you need to close down and like you said you can't be walking around open all the time and it is funny because some people that don't understand how it works with psychic readings I think they assume you're walking around because quite often I'll be asked Oh, can you read for me now and we're sitting in a cafe or something? I'm like no because this wouldn't be the right space like and then You have to be very skilled to be holding that kind of energetic container if you're doing that kind of work outdoors. And I do not like shopping malls. I do find the energy too full on. I'm, I don't go to the pub. I'm not a hermit, but there'll be certain spaces where it's probably not my thing cause you do sense the energy yeah yeah. And I don't drink actually. Since doing this work I've stopped drinking alcohol. And I have heard different theories on energetically what it can open you up to things and things like that. And I thought, oh, maybe that's why I've just swung away from it, I was never a big drinker anyway, but it's just naturally I pull away from that now. Yeah, so yeah, it's interesting. Those are probably all the tools that I was given.
Ian Vogel:I think that's super important and I hope that we get to a part a point in our culture, and by the virtue of the changes that are happening, that we'll have to start to adopt some of these, what I call energetic hygiene. Most people would not get up in the morning and go about their day without brushing their teeth. Like if you don't brush your teeth, it's just nasty. You feel it. It's not cool. How often do you forget to brush your teeth? And on the other hand, like energetically, so often we don't clean our space. We don't touch the ground. Our bodies are bioelectrical. Machines essentially, and they carry a, an electrical charge. There's been so much research that's been done on grounding and how that changes your electrical field just with the work that I've done in ceremonies, like touching the ground such a powerful way to move energy in, in ayahuasca ceremonies, I would walk around the circle and then go outside and touch the ground. And the guy who was running the circle said, Oh, you went out and took out the trash. Huh? Yeah. that context, In that environment, it was so tangible. Just like walk around, go outside, take it out, get rid of it. Take some deep breaths, give it to the earth and you know, what you were saying about going, not going out to pubs, as you call them in Australia I'm very naturally empathic as well. And getting me out of my own space is becoming more and more challenging. And, you know, to, to what you said, I, there was a period of time where I was doing a lot of ceremonies and traveling. So I would. I would be flying in and out of of different cities to do these ceremonies and you leave the ceremony, very much wide open and going, and sometimes I go straight from the ceremony to the airport going, yeah, going from that space from like a very tightly held container most of the time to an airport like in that state where you're still sometimes feeling the medicine and not completely out of the journey yet I had some rough experiences going into airports because there's so much anxiety in airports, just just the vibe of an airport, that period of time made me acutely aware of how powerful it is to have these energetic, Hygiene practices and be aware of how open we are and how close we are. And I became very aware that I needed to be proactive about learning how to manage myself and not just walk out into the world and hope things are going to be okay. And I think, bringing it full circle is, I think that's something that you said initially that your development psychically has been empowering for you and has helped you to be able to navigate the world more more effectively.
Kara Gurney:Yeah. Definitely. Definitely protects your energy. Cause I see it now as a commodity, whereas I used to give my energy out all the time. And also the other aspect too is boundary setting. So I just feel like when I'm more energetically contained, I do the right thing by myself and I'm able to say no, cause I, I was terrible. When I was younger, I couldn't say no, and then you get depleted. But the other aspect you were mentioning with the airports, I just kept thinking of EMF too. I did notice with the with the training, I feel I have become more sensitive to EMF and it's ironic, but I moved house. And I was told by my friend that read for me that my frequency no longer matched the building I was in. But I went from living in a high rise to now living on a ground floor apartment, and I can't get over the difference. what you were saying, being grounded And I'm far less sensitive to the EMF here, because I do think there was quite a lot of 5G towers around my apartment block, which were just it's very hard to sleep sometimes and energetically feeling drained. But having this awareness that we are an electrical circuit, like you were saying, we are electrical, that makes so much sense with the training that's come about with the psychic development. Yeah, much, much more discernment too, when it's my energy and when it's someone else's as well. Yeah,
Ian Vogel:Yeah, that's that's super cool. And interesting how we've had very different sorts of training and different backgrounds yet. Yet there's a lot of overlap in our experience and how we experience energy, how we experience other people, how we navigate the world. So I mean, I feel really blessed to have met you and to have received a reading from you. Again, that was a really incredible experience for me. It was predictive in some senses and talking about the direction I was going in and to a T, I was shocked as to within just a few months time, a couple of months time, like the situation that I was in. Something that we talked about in our, that come up in our reading became my reality, and I was I went from living in Arizona in the desert to being a couple hundred meters from a mountain stream up in the mountains in Montana. I was like, Cara said that this was gonna happen or I needed to live by a stream, and here I am, what on earth is going on? Like, this is so unbelievable. So that was, yeah, again, thank you so much for the work you do and how you show up in the world. I am truly grateful for you and I'm very appreciative. Is there anything you'd like to share about contact information, how people can get ahold of you? Do you have a website? yeah, Can you please share?
Kara Gurney:So, yeah, so currently I just work through email and Instagram. So you can contact me on my Instagram at Kara K-A-R-A- A-R-O-H-A, or you can contact me via email, which is kara.Intuitive@gmail.com. Yeah, so, and thank you so much for the feedback, because it's always wonderful to get that confirmation because, yeah, my experience is every day, you wonder whether maybe it won't work, like, or it might not turn on, but but it always works. So, yeah, so it's beautiful getting that, that reassurance. Thank you so much for the feedback. And thank you for the time today. I love sharing this conversation. It's very exciting to, it's like having two logs of wood on fire. You get lot more energy going. Yeah. On the same wavelength.
Ian Vogel:likewise, it's been an absolute pleasure and I look forward to our next conversation.