003 The concept of identity and how it relates to one's faith

In this heartfelt episode, join Christi Howes, Madison, and Mercy as they dive deep into the journey of discovering one's true identity in Christ. Through personal stories and biblical insights, they explore the challenges of shedding old identities, the pain of transformation, and the joy of embracing God's predestined purpose for our lives. From teenage struggles to adult revelations, this conversation touches on the universal quest for validation and self-worth, ultimately pointing to Jesus as the source of our true identity. Whether you're questioning your faith, seeking purpose, or simply curious about Christian perspectives on identity, this episode offers wisdom, encouragement, and a fresh look at what it means to find yourself in God.

Transcript

Madison: 0:00

Music. Welcome to episode three of our porch chat podcast.

Christi Howes: 0:08

Welcome to the porch chat podcast, a place where we kick off our shoes and gather to discuss topics about our faith life and wherever our hearts take us. So grab a cup of coffee, kick up your feet and join us on our porch. Chat you. Music. Well, hello, hello. We welcome everybody back to our porch. Tap podcast, it's so good to be here again today. I have here in the studio with us. Madison, hey and mercy, hi

Unknown: 0:58

there.

Christi Howes: 0:59

All right, it's been quite a day today. It's been kind of quite a week. Madison, how are you doing?

Madison: 1:05

Good? Good. I had a class this morning, and I'm now starting to fight in CPR, and that was awesome. I learned a lot.

Christi Howes: 1:14

You could save our lives.

Madison: 1:15

I could

Christi Howes: 1:18

very good. Mercy, how are you doing today? Doing well. Thank you. What's going on? Mercy, we are what did we get to do today?

Unknown: 1:25

Well, we're in the middle of revising my book right now, so most of our day was spent doing that. Yeah, let's

Christi Howes: 1:31

just chat, just for a second. Mercy, you are 14, you are going to be a freshman. Yes, ma'am, and you're homeschooled. And so tell me a little bit. Tell our audience, those that choose to join us a little bit about how you feel about homeschooling and how it's going. Well,

Unknown: 1:46

I absolutely love homeschooling. For me, it's just a great experience. It's something where I can

Christi Howes: 1:56

be yourself, yeah, totally, totally. It's

Unknown: 1:59

an experience where I don't feel like you could just do that in, like normal schools. And you know, expression, I love homeschooling. Yeah, it's

Christi Howes: 2:07

so cool, because we were talking sometimes when we decided to go into homeschooling. I remember when you were going into kindergarten, I owned the daycare, and I was wanting to potentially homeschool you, and really, because I just wanted to spend time with you, and I I was unsure if I should send you to public school or private school or homeschool you. And I thought, I can't really homeschool. Am I going to fail? Am I going to screw her up for life just when she didn't sometimes I thought, but um, I remember just saying, man, what I'm really gonna gonna, you know, I need to know what the right decision is. Here, this may be a little bit off to off subject today. What we want to talk about, we want to talk a little bit more about identity. But in this I remember saying, I think I'm gonna, like, Screw her up. I need to know, like, what's the right decision. And I had a friend come in, a parent actually came into the daycare, and I was she homeschooled, and I was telling her about it, and she said, It's not about like right or wrong, it's not about the best decision. Sometimes we get paralyzed in fear because we feel like we have to make the perfect decision, right? And she said, it's really just about you making a decision and just sticking it out and, like, daily, just fleshing it out. It's not like right or wrong, it just, you know, is it a fit? Is it a fit for you? So anyway, so we went through it for a few years. We did homeschool, and we've navigated through it. We have found things that you hated reading, if you remember, yes, you hated reading. And so she thought she was being pretty, pretty sly by saying, Mom, I have a deal. How old were you? Gosh, I don't even know, probably around nine, not eight or nine. I could get the girl to read for the life of her and I, she said, Mom, I have a deal. If I don't have to read during school time, I'll read before bed. Just let me read before bed. And I'm like, deal, but you got to do it. So she thought she was being rebellious, being able to stay up. But mom went here, mom, when I got the girl to read, and that's when you fell in love with reading. Yes, that was

Unknown: 4:15

the library contest too. Yeah, when I entered in and you had to get a certain like, word count in it was reading. It was like, the unicorn basket or something. And you, if you got so many words in for reading, you got, like,

Christi Howes: 4:29

you got stickers. Remember, you got stickers, and then you got tickets, and you could put the tickets in the basket. And if you you won that basket, that unicorn, you won so badly, and that's where your stubbornness came in. You were gonna win that back. And you did. You won it that summer, and that kind of solidified it anyways. So, yeah, homeschool has been a journey for you, and so last year you decided it was a little scary for you, but you decided I'm going to write a book, yeah, a novel, and tell us just slightly about that choice and how the year has been for you. Yeah. So

Unknown: 5:00

writing a novel has definitely been a journey. It was much harder than I anticipated, actually, which is odd, because you usually, you know, but it honestly just, I just loved learning through this, it was something where I found a part of me that I didn't really know existed, because I had been in a little bit in dope writing before this, but this really poured it out of me. And I really feel like I just found what I love, love, love, and that's writing. And I'm glad that this pulled this out of me

Christi Howes: 5:31

this year. I like the terminology you're using here is it literally pulled this out of you. So this was something inside of you this was a part of who you were, and you didn't even know it. And that interesting, see. So on that note, yeah, we're talking about identity today, and really been, Madison's been really chewing on this word identity and validation, but it's, it's cool talking to Mercy about she has just, and we'll, you know, we'll do another podcast where we specifically do a book launch, and we're going to talk because you are going to be a 14 year old author of a 12 chapter fiction novel, which is fantastic, literally, within the next month. So when we actually go and and this book is published, and you become author mercy house, we're going to do an interview, and maybe we can talk to some other people out there that are interested in writing or interested in doing that, and how you found your way in this, and how it has really been a part of who you are. So now, when we say, okay, who am I? When I ask, who are you? You, you say things like, Well, I am you say your name first, right?

Madison: 6:42

Yeah, right. So I am Maddie, right. So

Christi Howes: 6:45

what is that that identifies what name, your name? Who gave you your name, your parents, your fathers? You never gave yourself that name, right, right? That was not given, or that was not you that gave yourself that name your parents, you're right. So mercy said right in this book, pulled something out of me. Seemed like that. Something was in her. It was a flicker. It was like a part of who she is, the DNA of who she was. And she discovered that through this opportunity, it's interesting a little bit of how that relates, potentially in our walk with the Lord and our identity.

Madison: 7:21

Yeah, and I think also you hated reading. You did not want to read. And somehow you know, in doing what you're you're doing, whether it was, you know, reading before bed, or starting to write like you eventually fell in love with writing and reading to the point where now you have completed your own novel. So it was, you know, in somewhere, the act of doing that that has pulled that out of you, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that's awesome. And I think sometimes action, right, action is what can bring that out of us. But, and also, you think about how, you know, we build strongholds in our own mind that keep us from doing things. And you wonder, what's behind those strongholds, you know, like, what's behind those things that I don't even know about, you know? And you know, sometimes it just takes that action that you know you're being held back by. And, um, I don't know if I think we talked about this in the last episode. But a month ago, I had moved from South Carolina, so it's like 500 miles away to come and stay with my aunt. And it has been a really, really big change, because I, you know, I was presented with an opportunity, and accepting that opportunity meant I would be leaving the home that I was used to for six years. I mean, I had all of my teenage years there, so to me that those were my important years. I, you know, I learned a lot. I really, you know, grew, you know, physically and mentally and and so I was leaving my home. I mean, I was leaving all the friends that I made and my job that I loved, and I was leaving a relationship. And so a lot of pain kept I mean, you know, I'm sorry, a lot of pain followed accepting this opportunity, but I had felt like the peace of God was truly leading me to do this. And you guys had as well, you know, there was, there's peace in this household that, you know, this is something that we knew was right, and how things fell into place for me, and what was going on at in my life at the time, just really seemed like, you know, it was just what needed to happen. And so when I had taken that opportunity, and I've been here for a month now, but almost every night I have had nightmares, right? Nightmares about what I had left and. Nightmares about, you know who I was in my past, because about three, almost four months ago, is when I really gave my life to Christ again, after really six years of living in the world. And so I had really given my life to Christ. I had an encounter with Jesus, and that really changed my perspective on things, and it really started to shift things in my life. And then this opportunity came around, and so I, like I said, I had been having nightmares, and I had just really been emotionally struggling, especially with anxiety, like in the mornings, and, you know, when I would wake up and I would just feel this, like this pain, like this tear, it felt like a tear, like somewhere inside, and it hurt, but it hurt in a way that I felt like I was also, you know, I had these tears that were, you know, when you have a bunch of, Like, a paper cut, or, like, you know, that pain of a small cut, it felt like a lot of that, you know, and so I had just asked God, like, I know you're leading me here. I know that I'm supposed to be here, but what is this pain that I'm feeling? What is this emotional pain that like, and also, why am I being like attacked in my dreams with what I had left and my past, if this is where I'm supposed to be? And so I had prayed on that for a while, because the dreams had continued, and I would wake up with anxiety every morning and and so the other day, I was having a conversation with a friend, and I was explaining to her everything that has been going on. I was like, explaining to her the move that I had just made and made, and how I was feeling, and all of the pain and the nightmares that I was having, and, you know, she was like, you know, I, I kind of had the same experience. And you know, when you're explaining this to me, like, not only did you leave, you know, your family and your friends and everything that you were used to, but how you're explaining it to me is you left yourself, right? You left what you were, your identity. You left who you were, because you had given your life to Christ four months ago, right? So that's a, you know, that's a pretty big thing. And so now you had left, but you had, you know, and she also, she didn't say this directly to me, but after our conversation, I had really processed this, and I was like, it was just a relief in my head that I had felt like, Wow. I had put my identity and everything that was around me. I had put my identity in my job. I had put my identity in my friends. I had put my identity in my relationship, like 50% right and so and I could identify this and what I was doing, because I would go back and say, Wow, I did do that. I did say that, like I was basing my self worth and this and that on this and, you know, so I really had the revelation in my head of, wow, like you not only left what you're used to, but you also left yourself. And so you left your identity there, and you have, you're recreating you have, yeah, you have come into this place with a new environment, like new people, like you have really started a whole new journey with new people, but also a whole new person yourself, you know, so it's

Christi Howes: 13:35

you're it's possible to recreate your identity. You Do you believe that it's possible to recreate your identity, or do you believe that? So

Madison: 13:44

I don't think it's possible for us to create our identity, right? I don't think, as you know, a born again believer. I don't think it is, I don't think it's in our hands to create our identity. So Ephesians, chapter one, verse five, says, having predestined us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself according to the good pleasure of His will. So Ephesians tells us that we were already predestined to be children of God by Jesus.

Christi Howes: 14:19

So that's the word identity, we need to be very because your behavior, your decisions, your actions, your environment,

Madison: 14:26

was who I was. That's how I that's who I thought I was, thought where you were. Yeah, that was my identity to me, that to to my old man and my flesh. And that's the significance of your name. Yes, when

Christi Howes: 14:39

we say, Okay, what is your name and you identify yourself as I am Maddie, that is something that you didn't give yourself just like so we are. Our nature in Christ was not given. I mean, excuse me, we don't create that. It was given to us through Christ. Our

Madison: 14:55

identity is not for us to create or for us to find. Yeah, because the word tells you it was predestined for us to be children of God. That is, my identity is a child of God. Now, what my what my decision is, is to accept my identity. That's right, not to find my identity is to accept what's already been predestined for me. It's interesting. Identity is already there. Do

Christi Howes: 15:20

you know how many of us are, like, I just need to go find myself? I know, you know, like, no, like, that's

Unknown: 15:25

a catchphrase. Like,

Christi Howes: 15:26

what are we really saying? Because you hear it all the time. I need to find myself. Yeah, I really believe that all of us are trying to quote, find ourselves. But, and

Madison: 15:35

that's the problem, is we're trying to go find we're trying to go to these lengths and go, go, go, you know, go these different paths down life because we're trying to find who we are. We're trying to find that validation of who we are. When that validation is given to us right here by Jesus, Romans, chapter 829, says, For whom he did, for now he also did, predestined to be conformed to the image of His son that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. So not only was our identity predestined for us, but we were also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. So when you now accept your predestined identity in Jesus, you are accepting that you are to be conformed to the likeness of Jesus, right? We were given our identity as children of God, right? That, that identity that is now there for us when it was given to us by Jesus, right, when he shed his blood, right, our identity was now predestined for us. So when you accept your identity that's been predestined for you, you're going to have to shed your old man. You're going to have to shed your skin and shed your old identity that you thought that you were, and that's going to be painful. That is going to be painful, and you can make it as painful as you want by what you choose to do in life, just like you said, Sure. So

Christi Howes: 17:04

just like, well, you, you're you have lizard. What do you have?

Madison: 17:09

So I had many. I mean, I had snakes, right? And so when you think about how a gecko or snake, when they shed their skin, they are pulling their skin off, right? Geckos have to pull their skin off with their mouth. They pull it off, and it's like you're literally shedding your old skin. And if it's a good shed, their shed looks is a shell of the new person that they are. It looks like them, but it is a shell of who they are. So your old identity is a shell of who you are. It might look like you, but it's not who you really are, girl

Christi Howes: 17:42

that's good. Listen to that. I know. Wait, let's just highlight that for a second. The old yes identity, yes,

Madison: 17:50

your old identity, it's gonna look like you,

Christi Howes: 17:53

and literally, we need to not even use that word, your old skin, actions, behaviors, yes, mind sets is just literally the skin of what you were, but it is not your identity. Yeah, and

Madison: 18:07

when you think about it, you're, I mean, you are literally, by accepting it, you are tearing all of that out. Jesus is tearing all of that out. And I think to myself, If Jesus predestined this for us when He died on the cross, I couldn't imagine he was comfortable on that cross and shedding His blood, so we could have that so for conform to be in the likeness of Jesus, you're gonna have to shed your skin too. You're gonna have to shed you're gonna have to shed your flesh too. Absolutely, you're gonna and that's also when the Bible talks about picking up your cross and carrying it, right? You're gonna have to crucify your flesh when you accept your identity in Christ, yeah,

Christi Howes: 18:42

be dead to what you were, be dead to what you think. Be dead to what you know, so that you could bring life to who you truly are in your true identity. And that's so key, because we do seek lots of validation. And here's the thing with the peace of God that we talk about, the peace of God that passes all understanding being a Christ follower is not always logical. There's so many debates out there about the canon of the Bible, which we can talk about. I'd love for us to hit that in another episode, talks about the validity of Jesus over other religions, and there's so much philosophical argument over Christianity, if Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, but when it comes down to it, peace of God follows, and he pursues his people, right? And so we are longing. I believe mankind is longing for that validity that they can only get through the true Christ, and if they refuse to find it there, even though their heart may internally deepen, because God is faithful to himself, right? So he'll hunt you down. And you know that, you know that, you know that there's something real here, but maybe because you were hurt in the church, or you were hurt by your parents, or you were hurt by religion, or maybe because you had some confused feelings like. Or maybe you really do have a mental illness or some type of something going on that you need assistance with, and the Christian religion speaks against what you think you really want to live, the lifestyle you want to live, so therefore you are hell bent to hate it, for example, like Darwinism, Darwinism started. The whole point of evolution started is they wanted to find the way that the world could have created by the by the biology of the world. The world came about without God's existence in it. That's where the theories came from. They were something happened, and I'm we, I need to study it more. I had read a little bit about it, but something happened that literally that literally he set out to make a case for creation without a creator. Was the Darwin experience that was. It started literally, with a mindset there was something there, and so he determined to validate himself by because he refused to have God in it and just accept it. So when we do that, we can go our whole lives, even to death, generations and generations and generations. We create a mess for ourselves, and we create a mess for other people, because we refuse after us, yeah, because we refuse to just literally stop in peace and say, You know what? I don't know the logic behind it all. I don't understand it all, but I know that this is real, you know? I understand that this is real. So we seek out validation. We're looking for an applause. If we're not trying to find the peace of God, we're trying to find the peace of man. And so we surround ourselves with men that will applaud for us in our mindsets and our depravity, we'll find those applause. But when you lay your head down on a pillow at night. The peace of God. God will still hunt us down. The peace of God will either come or will not be there. But I have to believe in our heart of hearts, if God is who He says He is, that he pursues us relentlessly. And when you're when all the applause is gone, when nobody else is in the room, and your head's on your pillow at night, inside your soul, you know that there's something to this.

Madison: 22:04

I wonder if also, when you know, you think about people who look for a validation in there and those ways, if there's also, like the spirits of pride and the spirits of ego that really get them, and they're like, Hmm, maybe I do know that you're out there, but the flesh comes over you, and you're just like, I wonder if I can, if I can prove you wrong, if I can do this better. You know, like in the movie, God's Not Dead, the professor made it his life's his life's work to have the students agree that God is dead because of how God how he thought God had hurt him when he was younger, right? So he knew God was real. He knew that God existed, but his flesh had a vendetta against him because of his mother dying, and he blamed it on God, but he knew God was real. So his how crazy that like you, like your your flesh and your soul could know that God is real. Yeah, there's people that are, you know, their flesh. You know really they are, they are con they are conformed to their flesh, right? Well,

Christi Howes: 23:08

and also, I think, a huge reason too, why it's hard for people to just, no matter where you're at in your life and the decisions you've made and you've created, what you think is your identity outside of Christ, when all is said and done, when Christ continues to pursue you and you feel that deep in your soul, depending how far down you are this path, you're gonna have to continue to suppress that voice of God, because it could mean for you, shedding your skin, shedding everything you know, shedding your friendships, your relationships that you're in, that maybe you've been embarrassed. Couldn't imagine if God had revealed this to me like really had had had gave me this revelation before I had got here, and I would have known like, what actually was to come, what I would actually feel, what I was actually doing. My mindset then would have been like, Heck no, heck no, no, heck no. I'm

Madison: 24:04

not doing all that like, No way, but it doesn't unveil right? But now I understand why that needed to happen. Because by accepting my identity in Christ, I had to shed everything that I was putting what I thought my identity was in, what I was identifying as

Christi Howes: 24:21

there's a lot of people that just can't get there. Maddie, you know, you think about how long, you know, how long they're on this journey of seeking validation from man and not from the peace of God. And you, you.

Madison: 24:34

I mean, what I've learned is trying to find the peace and trying to file, find the the validation and everything but Jesus and his identity, for me made it in certain ways, made it worse for myself and I, I continued to search for that piece, and I always thought I would find it, but I would lose it. So you were always going to be on that search to find where you. Are, who you are, who you're supposed to be, and it's terrible. It's you will never have that peace in your soul you were. You will always try to find it. And you know ways that can take you further down the road. You know further that can take you. You know in ways where you're you're tearing that that whole bigger where now, when you accept your identity, and you have to have to shed and you have to let it all go, it's going to be even worse. You know,

Christi Howes: 25:30

that's good. So then, how then now shall you live? Right? How then now shall you live when you really, when God really starts to reveal to you that your identity is in him and not these things that may weigh you down and mindsets. How do you begin to change and take that step towards focusing on him and learning to and

Madison: 25:51

that's something that I'm actually currently learning to do. I mean, I'm I'm really trying to find out what that means to be a child of God, but I do know that the Bible says that, in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God, right? So being a child of God, that is my identity, says the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and the Word was God, right? That's the first in Genesis, right? And so knowing that, knowing I'm a child of God, and I'm conformed to be in the likeness of Jesus, and Jesus is the word, right? Jesus is in the Word. He is the Word. If I'm conformed to be in the likeness of him, by reading my word, by getting into my word, I am learning about who Jesus is. I am learning about my identity in Jesus. And that's how I'm currently finding that out. You know, that's how I'm currently learning, and that's I mean. And when you really I'll just sit there and I'll pray, and I'll say, you know, lead like Holy Spirit, lead me into into finding, you know, who I am, and You through Your word and by giving me revelation. So I know, and that's what I've done so far, you know? And, um, so that's what I really believe, is that after you accept your identity, now, you need to know about your identity, like now, okay, what is your identity? Who is Jesus? You know. So I heard

Christi Howes: 27:15

somebody state, you will never if you're seeking, you know, you're trying to find yourself. Who Am I? Why am I here? What's the purpose of life? What is my why? Says you will, they said you will never find your identity horizontally, like you will only find it vertically. And people will search their whole life trying to find their identity horizontally, like I said, the applause of man. And sometimes we get it right, sometimes we don't, but this is beautiful journey that we're on of just learning and growing in Christ and finding our identities is pretty powerful.

Unknown: 27:51

Okay, I'm gonna pipe in here. So I was thinking a little bit about validation, and, you know, this whole topic that we're on, and I'd like to identify what validation means, and I looked up the term like the terminal

Christi Howes: 28:07

the definition yes validation

Unknown: 28:09

and it means recognition or affirmation when a person or their feelings or opinions are valid or worthwhile, interesting, valid or worthwhile, right? And feeling validated ties into how you measure yourself self worth. Yeah, right? Yeah. Because often we believe what people say and think about us more than we believe what we know about us.

Christi Howes: 28:35

Isn't that so true? Oh my gosh, that is so true. So maybe this is why it just drives us crazy when somebody says something about us that we know is not real, right? Like we know is not true. I recently just went through a situation in my life. Look, I'm in my 40s. I think I'm over this situation. I think I've pretty matured pretty well and and we we were accused in a business deal that we had motives that we didn't have, and it just burnt me to the core. Just burnt me to the core, and I really had to evaluate, like, Am I like that? Maybe, you know, is that how I and I had to really, really, I had to question my heart. And I'm like, wait a minute. No, I know my motives. I know my heart. They're pure. So it is so true. Often we do look outside of us, and we think of ourselves the way that

Unknown: 29:18

other people right? Because we measure ourself our other people believe about us. Oh, that's so true, and that's why it sucks. Yeah, it does something

Christi Howes: 29:26

we got to work on. You think women deal with this mostly female it's a female thing. I don't see this with my husband. He's he my husband's like, I don't really care what people think. Yeah,

Madison: 29:36

I think males do it in a different way.

Christi Howes: 29:39

I think they also have a way of finding validation in who they are, but I think it's, I mean, I'm not a man, so I don't exactly how those work, but I you know you, but you can identify as a man if you want to, in today's society. Yeah, and this is what I struggle with, is you just said I am not a man. I don't know. But literally seeking validation. If I feel different, I can literally say in today's society that I am something that I truly am not, and you have to respect that and believe because that's my identity, right? But that's not true like your identity, that that's who you think that you are, right? But it's not who you are, your true identity. I know that's gonna ruffle feathers, but still, that's the fact is we are right. Christ says we are.

Unknown: 30:28

Self worth is the internal sense of being good enough or and worthy of love and belonging from others, belonging worthy and good enough. Those are the three key things there. That's what people are looking for, and you can find that in the Lord. And as a 14 year old girl, that's something that I had struggled with for a long time. You're going through that stage where all you seek is validation from others, you know, because you're trying to find yourself really, you know, finding yourself. And I've learned that, like Maddie said, you don't find yourself, but you have to accept your identity, you know, instead of trying to find that validation in seeking it in others that it comes, you know, from the Lord, yeah, validation, Mercy.

Christi Howes: 31:15

Let's just be raw and real. You. This past year, have just had some pretty cool encounters with a real God. Now, now I'm gonna bring up something that's not incredibly popular. Okay, I have no desire to criticize anybody for their choices and how they choose to live, and I know that this is not there's so many arguments about this, but our family has chosen to not be active regular church going family. We have decided within our home to talk about Christ on a daily basis. We have decided in our home to live out our Christian walk on a daily basis. Would you say, from knowing your mom and dad, would you say that Christ is a little bit a part of our life? Would you say that Christ is the majority of our life? As you observing your parents that do not attend an organization and have not taken you to an organization for 12 years, what is your viewpoint on that? From your perspective?

Unknown: 32:19

Yeah, you guys are, Christ is the majority of our life without going to a organization, you know.

Christi Howes: 32:28

And there's nothing wrong for people that do. I needed it when I was 1314, and I gave my life to the Lord, and I was a street kid, and I didn't have that background in my home. I loved what the church did for me and for my faith, and I needed that. And then as and we'll talk more well, you know, we'll be open about this. There's, there's lots of stories I was vocationally in ministry, pay, paid to be in ministry. And we'll talk more about that.

Madison: 32:56

And I'm actually gonna pipe in on that one too, I think, as someone who was raised in a church, I have seen the differences between basing your relationship with God on religion and routine, versus basing your relationship off of God with having a relationship with God, You know, and everything that comes with that. Comes with that. And I think I have experienced both being in a church, not having a relationship with God, not being in a church and not having a relationship with God, and now having a relationship with God and not being in a church,

Christi Howes: 33:36

I think one of the things that people get caught up with the most on people that choose not to attend on a Sunday service is, is they say, but the Bible, and I, you know how many times I've heard this, but the Bible says to not forsake the fellowship of the saints,

Madison: 33:54

right? So I think there's a difference, right? We get caught up in the and the, you know, people that don't attend the Sunday service, right? Well, you have to think as much as the Bible says that that is true, but also context, and also what the Bible says is that the Bible talks so much about fellowship, the Bible talks about discipleship and how that's grown, right? So if you are a body of Christ in your home, and you are growing, you are fellowship. You are discipling your children out, right? You are growing them into disciples. And you are a fellow. You are being in a fellowship together. You are engaging in that, right, yeah, and I think if you don't in friendships, having friendships, right? You know, and it's interesting.

Christi Howes: 34:44

It's interesting that often I have been at the position that I had to defend myself to somebody that attended a Sunday morning service or attended a Wednesday service, that that judgment was there for. Me, and it's interesting, because, if you know my family, we heavily, we saved up our tithe money when we chose to step away, and we were homeschooling our children, and we were teaching our children about Jesus, and, you know, doing all those things, but at our home, we saved up a lot of our tithe money, and we were looking for an opportunity to give, and we started funneling it overseas through a friend to Nepal, and he was an indigenous missionary that lives in Nepal was, you know, got radically saved, and they wanted to build a like a location. They wanted to go to a brick factory, and they wanted to start preaching in the brick factory. And this was what they called churches. Like they would rent out these locations, you know. And so my husband and I, we started sending our money to this guy and to this missionary. And so he ended up renting the brick factory out. And there were, there was this guy there, that was a Buddh in the brick factory, and he overheard what was happening in this service one day that my husband and I were funding with our tithe money, not giving it to the American church. We were giving it to, you know, internationally. And this guy overheard and his daughter was dying of cancer, and he wanted he had tried witch doctors. He had tried many different things, and nothing saved her. Nothing was healing her. So he's like, I need to try this Jesus. And so they, they ended up ministering to him. His name was tech, and he gave his life to the Lord radically. She gave her life to the Lord radically. And then they continue to pray for her healing. And you know, we believe that Jesus heals like this is we know this. It happens in the word this is what we want to say, The One True Jesus will save her. Well, she died. He didn't heal her. And so, I mean, how does that rock your faith? Like the one God that you tried? Yeah, didn't work for the motives that you were coming into it, yeah, it didn't work, you know. So what do you say about that? And tech answered, He said, But God did heal her? Oh. He said, This is the one true God. I found the one true God. And he knew in his heart, because it's the peace that passes all understanding, giving goosebumps, he said, But God did she's in heaven for eternity. Had it not been for you guys, she never would have known. And so tech gave, oh, tech gave his life, and he became and still to this day, 1012, years later, maybe more to this day, he goes to Far East, Nepal, hundreds of Buddhists and Hindu people are serving the Lord because of what tech has done. He's one of the missionaries. And now let me tell you, you know how many? You know how many? And then we funded ministries in Segal and different ministries, orphanages all over. You know how many lives have been changed and saved because my family chose to be faithful and give. But in the meantime, I'm being judged in the American church by somebody who shows up on a Sunday morning service for an hour and a half that I'm forsaking the fellowship, that I'm not walking it out, that they're gonna pray that God gets a hold of me. And you know at first, like my anger, you know, was really there, that the arrogance and the ego is how you know God says My ways are not your ways, and my thoughts are not your thoughts, that there is not enough space and room for people like me, that literally, lives are being changed because God is calling me out of the organization into a different mindset and and I also remember praying I would see so many PK kids, pastors, kids falling away from the Lord because their their identity literally was in their parents. What their parents did vocationally. Their identity was in the organization, and when they found the bureaucracy and the pain in the organization, they wanted nothing to do with Jesus, because that's all they saw. Their identity wasn't in the right place, right? Yeah,

Madison: 39:09

I think so go ahead. Also, um, Christians in the American church, you know, there's, there's a lot of them who put their identity in the church, right? So when you don't follow that, when you don't do that, you know, it gets hypocritical. They get hypocritical, right? I think also, Christians in America love to put God in a box. They love to put Jesus in a box and say, but because you're tithing out here and you're not tithing at this church, then you're not tithing and you're not doing it. Right? Look, you know, where in the Bible does it say that? Sure it talks about tithing, sure it talks about discipleship, yeah, it talks about fellowship, but

Christi Howes: 39:45

not in the New Testament. So that's another that's another podcast.

Madison: 39:50

It does not say only in this church. It says in the in the church, in the body of Christ, right? So I think that fellowship and disciple. Ship are important. And I think when you have that in your life, when you have that outlet, when you can do that with other Christians, you're engaging in that, right? I don't think, you know. I don't know if you're supposed to. I think it's my opinion. I don't think a Christian is supposed to live their life alone, all their life and just be, be alone with you know? I

Christi Howes: 40:22

think, well, then how can you be the light? Yeah, literally, that's,

Madison: 40:25

I think the discipleship and the fellowship is important, yeah? And if you find that in church, if you can do that in church with a with a body of Christ that you find in a church, right? Awesome, great. Because remember, that doesn't mean every single church you're going to have that and do that. The

Christi Howes: 40:39

church is literally, the body is the people. It's not the buildings. And in America, we got it wrong. But I remember praying when mercy and court were little, and I remember saying, Lord, how do I ensure that my children will follow you all the days of their life? How do I I see so many pastors, kids, we were in vocational ministry, and I see them fallen, fallen like flies, left and right. And listen, I was in I was in ministry, and saw the bureaucracy and the pain and all of that, and and I was trying to hold on to do what I thought was pleasing God, and it was really bondage. And I just remember, as clear as day, we talked the other podcast about how sometimes God voice sounds like our own, but it's like our minds going in one direction, and it just like flips. The thought flips. But I remember hearing Claire as day is remove them from the organization. So now here we are, 12 years later. Okay? And I always wondered, Am I failing my kids because I don't have a problem with the organization? I don't know. I think it's beautiful in my season. I needed it when I was 1314, greatness comes out of it. When somebody is coming out of addictions or mindsets or they're shedding their skin, right? They need that body, and they often find it in beautiful pockets of organizations and church buildings. So I don't have a problem with that. Don't have a problem either with me. Don't cause a problem with me. Yeah, because honestly, the fruit is in my children. Is Will my children. But

Madison: 42:10

also then you're putting God in a box and saying you can only move this way. You can't move in this way. No, he moves in so many ways.

Christi Howes: 42:17

Who are we to say that? No, for sure. So now mercy, you recently have been going through quite a transformation. You the past year, you've had some pretty cool the past. You have to say it in the mic. We're sharing a mic right now. You have accepted your identity. Is what you've had. Yes, you're understanding more of who you are in Christ, do you want to just share briefly, just because we're talking about identity and validation and mindsets, like, what happened, yeah, in your life that this became real. So

Unknown: 42:54

12 going on 13, there's obviously a shift going on there where hormones, yeah, trying to find yourself for the longest time you've been like, not attached to your parents, but you Yeah, you know you're so close to your parents, and you kind of believe what they believe. You do find finding that independence. So that was a really, really tough age for me trying to identify who I was. And, um, one thing was I was leaning on my parents faith and not my own faith. So having your I didn't have my own relationship with the Lord. I didn't seek Him for myself. It was just, you know, like, oh, I believe in God. You know, my parents believe in God. It's something that's always been there, and I really had an encounter with the Lord, you know, it was real, and it wasn't just, you know, my parents, and I just, I really, really, really, just found him and identified, I was able to identify myself.

Christi Howes: 43:59

What was happening. You don't have to share all the details. But what was happening at that moment? You were going through a tough time. We actually we, can we talk about it a little bit? Can we be a little vulnerable? Because I think this is helpful. You were going through a tough time with some friendships and kind of learning, okay, who am I gonna be right? Who is mercy?

Unknown: 44:21

Right? Seeking again, validation through other people, through friends that make you feel good about yourself because you don't know who you are, and that security feels nice, you know? It's like a blanket people wrap around you. And it was, yeah, it was an interesting time, but

Christi Howes: 44:47

you didn't even, you weren't even feeling like happy with yourself. You were not feeling happy. You were not feeling peaceful.

Unknown: 44:54

It's like you're carrying an attitude and a spirit that's different. You know, you don't. Do things in a joyous way. You're not, you know, living every day for the Lord. You know, it's just like this,

Christi Howes: 45:08

yeah, and we were feeling kind of a division between us, and I've been praying, there were attitudes and certain things, and I just been praying like, Lord, help us. Help us, kind of flesh this out and figure this out, you didn't have a desire to read your Bible, right? I was very

Unknown: 45:23

that was something I was,

Christi Howes: 45:26

yeah, you didn't have a desire to like worship and write. That's not where your heart was, who I

Unknown: 45:32

was. And I definitely found that, because what happened it was when you guys, my parents had a talk with me, and we were it's like I was talking to Madison about this. And it's when you're in situations where your head space is clouded because of feelings, because you're in that moment, it's just you're just totally clouded. Your vision is clouded because of feelings, and often you have to be removed from situations that cause you to be for your headspace to be clouded, to understand what's happening, because you can't see life with with clarity. You're in a mindset, in a mindset that is living in that blur, if that makes sense. And I was living in that blur, and I couldn't see things from a perspective that was through the eyes of wisdom. You know,

Madison: 46:36

also, I think when you you receive that wisdom through God, and you receive that that identity, right? And he removes the scales off of your eyes. He removes the scales off of your eyes like you are shedding, like you are shedding your skin you and he is removing the scales off of your eyes, and you're no longer seeing through the cloudy lenses that you were. And when you talk about, I relate to you, when you talk about how you your relationship with your mom fell apart a little bit. You didn't want to read your Bible. And when I was living in in the world as well, I I had never felt further away from my mother? So I think it's interesting that connection between you know, the enemy wants to divide, yeah, between the division between you and your parents, and the division that I had felt between me and my parents, and when I had accepted my identity and I and I had actually grieved and mourned the loss of not having that relationship with my parents for that last six years. And I had realized, oh my gosh, I have literally, like, missed out on so much with my parents. Like, why, you know. And it was after those scales had been removed off of my eyes, you know,

Christi Howes: 48:00

I know like for us, like as a mom, I know that mercy and I had had conversations. We were butting heads. There was nothing that I could say that was getting through in this moment, she was 13. There was a lot of emotions. We still were we were still close, but there was definitely, like, some type of blockage there. And I remember her dad and I sat down for a conversation. And her dad, you know, there's a lot of respect that she has for her dad. And her dad is one, one thing that I love about my husband is he's not an outwardly religious man. You're not going to be seeing him praying on the street corners or preaching, but he is genuinely a man of God. He loves the Lord with his heart, his integrity. And so it's always been who he is, it he, he strives to follow Christ, not to be this religious outwardly for somebody to like flashy watch me, that's just not him, but he's solid. And so there's a respect there. But he said to her, and it was that moment, it was like the Holy Spirit himself was speaking to Mercy's heart. And it was not something I could do. It was something that God used her earthly father to connect her with her heavenly father. And he said, Where is that little girl that is striving after Jesus. I know she's in there. That's what I want to see. And she began weeping, and he began weeping. You remember, you're weeping now. He just wept. And her seeing that she ran to his arms, and they wept and arm to arm, and it was such a beautiful connection. And I sat in the back, and this is one of those moments. I'm like, You're gonna shut up, Christy. You are not gonna say a word, because this isn't about you. This is Jesus moving. And they embraced and hugged, and it was like the supernatural moment. And for the next four to five days, mercy, you know, as a. Parents, we had to make decisions to, you know, take take away our phone for a season and and take away things that we thought were influencing her spirit, not that she was a bad kid. She was always a great kid, but there was not a piece there in our home and we were trying to protect her from things that were trying to infiltrate her heart and like roots that were trying to take in. It definitely through friendships, through different things that we were trying to protect her because we saw this is gone, this is not going to leap. Yeah, we were ripping up roots, and we questioned, like, are we bad parent? I even had a well, well meaning person be like, you know, you take away their phone. No, the bitterness like, this is not a good move as the mom, you know, and I'm like, Look, I'm just trying my best to make sure that no root takes hold of her heart, you know. So it took her four to five days to really process, yeah, and it

Unknown: 50:49

didn't understand at the time, you know, why my parents were punishing me when I, you know, repented to them like that, why I was like, oh, yeah, I see, you know, I finally see what I did wrong. And it was because I was in that headspace that I was looking through those lenses, and I couldn't understand at the moment why they were doing what they were doing, you know, why they were removing these things from my life. And I just couldn't understand it. But that respect that was there. I was like, Okay, I don't see it now, but I will see it later. I respect you, even though I highly disagree and I do not want this to happen that's

Christi Howes: 51:21

mature. I mean, how many of us go through our life and we don't ever get there? She's a 13 I

Unknown: 51:28

don't understand right now. I really want to buck, you really bad right now. And

Christi Howes: 51:32

you could have, right you could have, you know, and many of us do, they buck. God, they buck. You know, problems happen, or things happen in our life that are painful, that are saying you're going the wrong direction, you're going the wrong direction, and we have an option in life to either listen or not listen. But since then, when did like God become real to you? When did you start coming out of it and be like, You know what this is for me, and I want this, and, and, and I truly love Him. When did you feel like you fell in love with who he was for the first time and really started a grasp? Was it a one moment thing, or was it a gradual process? I

Unknown: 52:09

think it was actually both, you know, it started gradually going for me, you know, easing into it, you know, like realizing that, okay, you know, with this new clarity of mind, where things aren't like clouded, right? I can actually see the Lord through, you know, different eyes for once. So I was in the car, and you were in a hair appointment, and I was really struggling, really, really, really struggling with everything that was happening, you know, I I cut a toxic friendship tie, and that was really, really taking a toll on me. I was really struggling in that moment, and I was just crying over it. I felt terrible about it. And this song came on, and it was called gratitude by Brandon Lake, which is now one of our favorite worship songs. And one, one of the lines, says, so throw up your hand. So I'll throw out my hands and praise you again and again. And in that moment, I was like and he says in the song you know now, come on my soul. Don't you get shiny. Lift up your voice, because you've got like it's telling your soul to praise the Lord. And I remember, I remembered a verse you know, like, Consider it pure joy

Christi Howes: 53:35

whenever you face trials of many kinds, because the testing of your faith develops perseverance. And perseverance, finish its work, so that you are mature and complete, not lacking and anything. That's James one, one. I

Madison: 53:47

love that

Unknown: 53:47

verse. Love that verse. That's one of my favorite ones. And that came up, it's a not lack, like not lacking anything, was just ringing in my head, and it was like, you're gonna come out on the other end of this good because you got parents behind you that that God put in your life for a reason, and they're gonna help you through this. What is what you're going through right now? Is Right? It's God. He

Christi Howes: 54:11

spoke this to you, yes, like you felt this in the midst of your brokenness, in the midst of it was

Unknown: 54:15

like a flood of feeling, and I just understanding just totally consumed you. And I was just like, I just started crying, and I threw up my hands, and I was like, like, Lord, I will praise you. You know, even through these tough time right now, I will praise you, because I have parents. You You have blessed me so much. That's awesome. And I know that I will come out on the other end of this not lacking anything

Christi Howes: 54:45

I love that I paid her to say everything she just said, By the way, no, I had no clue she was sharing this. I actually have never heard this version of the story. I think it's so cool that we did it on this podcast to hear this version of it. You really could have you. Um just been bitter, and so many of us go our lives when pain happens, or somebody disciplines us, or we go our lives and we get prideful and bitter and we don't respond. But God is relentless in pursuing us. He's relentless in being there for us. He's relentless in in letting us know that he's got our back, and if we just listen and respond, right, right? He's a faithful even just

Unknown: 55:26

recognizing listening and recognizing that that that's the Lord, you know,

Christi Howes: 55:31

yeah, that's so good. Thank you for sharing. I really loved hearing your heart. What a great topic to talk about our identity and validation in Christ and man, what a great conversation. Maddie, that's our last sip. Why don't you go ahead and lead us out. Lead us out with a final thought.

Madison: 55:50

So a final thought for me tonight is seeking. You will try so hard to seek who you are and seek that validation of who you are, and you will continue to seek until you find it in the peace of God, and only can you find that in Jesus, because of what he did for you.

Christi Howes: 56:13

Amen and shedding man, shedding your own life, it can hurt, it's gonna hurt, but it's worth it. It's worth it. We'll see you next time. Bye.