The 29/1
Official Podcast of the West Ottawa High School Athletic Program. 29 Sports, One Team. The show that brings you into the lives of student athletes, coaches and other faces in the Panther Sports Community. Bringing you the stories you might otherwise never hear. Join Rodney Vellinga and Athletic Director Bill Kennedy as they dive in with you to get to know each other a little bit better.
The 29/1
Making Strong Strides in Boys Cross Country, with Chris Knoll and Boston Wilkinson
Join the 29/1 crew for an encouraging conversation about change and adaptation within the West Ottawa boys cross-country team, featuring 15-year-old athlete and student sophomore runner Boston Wilkinson and long time head coach Chris Knoll.
We'll talk about the contributions of coach Jesse Luyk and Athlete Performance Coordinator Frank Lerchen that have significantly enhanced the team's performance, reduced injuries, and boosted confidence.
Discover newly fostered team dynamics and unique traditions within the West Ottawa Boys cross-country team. From the symbolic "sand ceremony" that grounds athletes before races, to training in Riley Trails, and even climbing the Sleeping Bear Dune as a team. We also discuss the team's recent improvement under Chris Knoll and the high expectations for the upcoming season, including Boston's ambitious goal of breaking the 17-minute mark for his 5K.
This episode is a reminder of how change and adaption can spark great things within us all.
This episode was recorded on August 2, 2024.
Podcasts drop weekly at 6 AM every Monday morning just in time for that morning commute or workout. Please like, follow, subscribe, or leave a review. Even share with someone who might like to listen. Thanks for taking the time to get to know each other a little bit better. The people who make West Ottawa Athletics what it is. Go WO!
This is the best team I have ever coached and they've got a chance to do some things. They changed that record board last year in three spots in the gym. They're going to really change it this year.
Speaker 2:Hey everybody, this is Rodney Valinga with the West Ottawa High School Athletic Program and you're listening to the 29.1 Podcast 29 sports, one team, the show that brings you into the lives of student-athletes, coaches and other faces in the Panther sports community, bringing you the stories you might otherwise never hear. Join myself and Athletic Director Bill Kennedy as we dive in with you to get to know each other a little bit better. Bill Kennedy, as we dive in with you to get to know each other a little bit better. Hey everybody, thanks for joining us again. We are now into our third episode. We've had a lot of fun so far. We hope you've enjoyed listening and we got a really nice podcast today, bill.
Speaker 3:Yeah, today we're going to be joined by the longest tenured head coach at West Ottawa boys cross country coach, chris Knoll, entering as 28 season leading the Panthers program. Also joining us as sophomore, boston Wilkinson, who is going to share his love of running as we dive into the season that lies ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this, this is a really nice one. Really great personalities from both, and Boston Wilkinson, of course, 15 years old, coming on the podcast. It's a great listen. Thanks for joining us. Let's get to it. Well, hey everybody, welcome back to the 29.1 podcast. I am your host, rodney Valinga, and I'm here with Panthers Athletic Director Bill Kennedy, and we have a nice podcast today. We have two guests with us today, and who are they?
Speaker 1:Boston Wilkinson, and Coach Chris Knoll.
Speaker 3:Awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, it's really great to have you guys here. We're really excited. The cross-country season is soon to be upon us, right? You guys are busy training. We're in August already. The calendar just turned and we are back at it.
Speaker 3:And Coach you've been the cross-country coach First season 97? That's correct. 97, 98. So you're currently the longest-tenured head coach here at West Ottawa.
Speaker 1:Okay, that sounds good to me. Does that feel good? Seems like just yesterday.
Speaker 2:We have a room of four people and there's three old guys in here and of course, we have Boston, who is, I believe, 15, right, yep? Oh, it's so great to have you on here. You are a sophomore and you're going into your second season. I was able to talk to your dad yesterday. I don't know, did he tell you about that at all or not?
Speaker 3:Yeah, he did, he did Okay.
Speaker 2:So you have like a great work ethic and you're very involved here in school, not just cross country. Can you tell me a little bit about the things you like to do here at West Ottawa?
Speaker 4:Well, I try and do like a lot of things, so I run cross country, I run cross country, I run track. But I think I'm going to be doing debate again this year. I did it last year.
Speaker 2:You'll beat me if we do something.
Speaker 4:So that's a pretty small team, but that's pretty fun. Student Senate I'm on that right now and I'm going to do some APs this year.
Speaker 2:Oh, nice, already. Good for you. All right. Your dad said you also are looking toward maybe a life of public service and being involved in the community. Can you speak to that just a little bit?
Speaker 4:So I just applied to HIAC, which is Holland Youth Advisory Council, where you pretty much just help out around city council and help make decisions there and implement something. So I'll be on the human relations commission for that. So I'm pretty excited for that and I like reaching out and like helping make the community a better place and I think that's really fun.
Speaker 3:As a former AP government teacher, it warms my heart to see young people get involved in government and the community, especially at the local level, cause that's really where things are done right, yeah, well.
Speaker 2:Boston. You probably know this. There's pictures of a young JFK. So maybe in 40 years or so we'll come back to here and we'll be with President Wilkinson maybe, so we'll see how that goes. Interesting off-seasons so what's really great about talking with coaches and athletes right now is these off seasons. Right, it's the summertime. Boston, you had a really interesting, fun start to your summer where you and your family went out to the East Coast. You visited a number of different states and did some cool things there. Can you just talk about that for a little bit?
Speaker 4:So we did a series of four marathons and 10Ks. I just did the 10Ks, my dad did all the marathons and my mom walked some of the half marathons. So we went to all in four different states and just raced stuff, raced distance running, and it was really fun and I won two of those races.
Speaker 2:Did you really?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So what were your? Which ones did you win? I know you didn't do all. You didn't race. Quote, unquote, race all four, right.
Speaker 4:I raced two of them and those are the two I won. But I raced two of them and the other two I did kind of as maintenance, just recovery runs to try and keep with training.
Speaker 3:What states did you visit? Boston?
Speaker 4:I think we did Vermont, new Hampshire, rhode Island, and shoot I can't remember the other one Connecticut, connecticut. Yeah, okay, thanks coach All right.
Speaker 2:So Connecticut was the was the other one your.
Speaker 4:Connecticut. Yeah, Okay, Thanks Coach.
Speaker 2:All right. So Connecticut was the other one, your dad and you. It must be fun to be in a family where your passion, which is running, is part of the family dynamic. Talk about that, if that's all right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so that's kind of why I started running is because my dad is a runner. He's been a runner since high school, and that's why I'm named boston is because he qualified for the boston marathon when my mom was pregnant with me. So, uh, it's always been really important to me, for, yeah, that's yeah, that's really, really cool.
Speaker 2:That name boston and, just fyi, your brother's name is miles, yeah, so if you don't think there's, uh, there's some stuff going on there with the, the passion for running. That's really what's going on. Your dad has run a marathon in what 30 of 50 states?
Speaker 4:he's going for all 50 yep, he's at 30 now because of the four different states got you, so you just added four this year, which?
Speaker 2:is great, all right, super cool, that's awesome yeah, so also this summer.
Speaker 3:Uh, coach noel, you guys took the summer retreat one up north. Oh, yeah bear lake, sleeping bear dunes. Yeah, is that something that the program has done in the past or is this something that was kind of a new ad?
Speaker 1:that was the second annual trip up north, or run up north, which is run, run up north, and it was a blast and it went way beyond the running.
Speaker 3:I think Boston could probably back me up on that. I was going to say what does that do for, kind of the culture within the program, the bonds that are formed within the team? Coach, if maybe you could speak to that and then we'll have Boston follow up with his thoughts.
Speaker 1:You know, when you are in a house with 16, 16 guys and you're sharing every meal together, uh, doing cleanup together, uh, it, it solidifies the bonds that are already there. These, these guys, are an amazing team. They always welcome new guys in. Uh, we had a couple of freshmen with us on that trip, just as Boston did last year as a freshman, and they're a good team and they're on the edge of being a great team. But that trip up north was just beyond what we could hope for.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Boston from the athlete standpoint. What does it do? And talk a little bit about the trip.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's really kind of like hard to try to not be integrated with the team if you're living with everyone else in a house for three days and you have to learn how to get along with each other and that kind of just falls in like automatically when you're going through that. And we all did hard things together which kind of builds those bonds. Not only just running, doing workouts together, that builds it, but as well we also went and climbed the Sleeping Bear Dune.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the dune.
Speaker 4:The big, tall one, and everyone did that. We all did it together, and we'll always have all those memories to go back to whenever we're doing a hard race, hard run, and we'll be able to have something in common with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's no way. You get into a race and you go oh, this is a hill.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we've seen more than this yeah, the next day after that we had a hill workout and we were like this isn't a hill, this is a speed bump, exactly.
Speaker 2:A joke. Yeah, if you've ever been, I'm sure a lot of people listening to this podcast have been up to Sleeping Bear Dunes. When you're at the top and you look down, I mean the people are tiny and a lot of people little older people will go down that hill and not make it back, right?
Speaker 4:There's like a $3,000, fine, yeah it's pretty intense.
Speaker 2:So well, that's great. I'm glad you guys are doing that type of stuff. It really does matter right To be together and do things together that way. Let's talk a little bit Boston about last year. For you, you really made a lot of gains last year. Coming in as a freshman, I believe your first race at South Christian Under the Lights you ran a 22.20. And by the end of the year at conference you ran an 18.29. Coach, can you just speak first of all how hard that is to do and we'll go from there.
Speaker 1:Okay, and we have had people who start slower but not get that fast, and Boston pretty much throughout the season improved. Almost every single race was a personal record or PR and I really did not think he was going to go that fast. My goal for him was to beat his dad's high school time.
Speaker 2:And did you? I did, let's go love it, and you're still talking, which is nice. So he was able to pull that off. What was?
Speaker 4:what was dad's?
Speaker 2:time an idea 19 19 something 35 or 38 something, yeah yeah and what's it like for you, boston, as an athlete, it's not always easy to improve right. We don't. We don't know sometimes what we are as an athlete. What was it like for you to have that great improvement?
Speaker 4:it really was fun because, like now, especially now, uh up at jesse's coach, jesse's cabin, we, uh, we're going on workouts and Coach Jesse is the.
Speaker 2:We'll talk about that in a little bit, jesse, yeah.
Speaker 4:So up in the north I specifically remember doing workouts and I remember having like maintenance runs that are now the same distance as like a pre-race run or like my maintenance or are as long as my long runs from last year. So that's really fun to see the improvement and running is one of those fun sports where you can really see the improvement and see it come through week after week, year after year, month after month. Just see it in numbers and times and distance and friendships.
Speaker 3:So it's really about consistency, right? It's about showing up every day and putting in the work and you're going to see results come from it.
Speaker 4:For sure.
Speaker 2:You did something different this year and Coach Mabel speak this as well, and this is something I give your program a lot of credit for for this, because sometimes we have to make adjustments and do some change right To move forward. I know, as an older guy myself, is that well, I remember doing this and then I keep doing that forever and it's like my kids would be like that. No, that's not what you do now. And I'm like, okay, what do we do now? And you guys, coach, you guys made a commitment as a team to start going into the weight room and I know Boston. You've been working up there working with Frank Coach. Can you speak to a little bit about that, as far as when you guys started and maybe things that you're seeing for your athletes that surprises you from doing that?
Speaker 1:for your athletes. That you, you know, surprises you from doing that. So we started going to the weight room regularly when Frank took on that position and revolutionized the weight room and the mental approach. And we did it mainly to be faster and stronger, but we did it also for injury prevention Right, and last year I believe we had maybe one real injury on the team. That was an amazing turnaround.
Speaker 2:What would, a year prior to that? What would that look?
Speaker 1:like Probably 12, 12 out of 25 guys with some kind of injury you know usually mating your team. Yeah, yeah. So, uh, to prevent injury for cross country runners, it's, it's getting in the mileage in the summer, but also the weight room If. If you're stronger, your form's going to be better and you're going to be mostly, mostly, injury-free.
Speaker 1:Yeah but it's stunning to see some of those guys who started with that two years ago. I think of one in particular who could not do a push-up and we've now named the push-ups after him because he's just not come out. I think Boston is. Aren't you trying to get to that level of Caleb? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, just watching them. We have video now of them running over wickets which are little tiny hurdles and several people have said they look like athletes now when they go over those. It was, you know, tripping over something six inches high. It was just arms and legs all over the place. And the weight room has helped us really focus and again, mentally and physically it's. I can't say enough about what Frank has done up there.
Speaker 2:It's awesome, boston, you even started a little earlier, right? Didn't you start doing that a little bit on your own and was the eighth grade, I believe?
Speaker 4:Yeah, winter track. We do it, uh, for we do lifting there too, and I did it in eighth grade, yeah.
Speaker 2:What has been your experience as an athlete, especially, you know, with a, with a team like cross country? Sometimes you walk in there's like, well, the rugby guys are in here, Football players are in here and what am I doing in here, but it is a big deal now. What is it like for you? What have you seen for you as far as the changes that it's done for you? Can you speak to that?
Speaker 4:Definitely going off. What Coach Noel said is a lot of the aches and pains are like less when you're lifting, there's just a lot less chance of injury and especially when you're getting up your mileage over weeks of higher mileage and more intense workouts, you need to be able to prevent those injuries a little bit better and also it just makes you feel stronger and faster and you can run faster when you feel stronger.
Speaker 3:So there's kind of a confidence that comes with it, right, like for sure. Um, you're also doing you talked about it a little bit earlier about doing hard things, so that when stronger, so there's kind of a confidence that comes with it, right, like for sure. Um, you're also doing you talked about it a little bit earlier about doing hard things, so that when you're in a race and if you're running a race properly, it's gonna, it's gonna kind of suck right yeah, um, but you have to embrace it and uh, I think you know being in the weight room and embracing the suck a little bit my dad helps.
Speaker 4:My dad even has a sticker on his water bottle that says embrace the suck. There you go.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's so great. That's really awesome. I talked to Frank just yesterday and we just talked about you know cross-country and being in there. Can you talk to me about what a Romanian deadlift is? A little bit, those are. Those are RDLs, I guess.
Speaker 4:Oh.
Speaker 2:Do you know what those are or not?
Speaker 4:I think so.
Speaker 1:Frank has a lot of names for a lot of things.
Speaker 4:Right that jargon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he has the Cuban press, which sounds like a sandwich. He's got the Copenhagen plank. Copenhagen is the capital of Denmark. The MJ is ISO squat where you squat on your tiptoes Like Michael Jackson.
Speaker 2:Now I see there's no way you're going to remember the remaining. I think so.
Speaker 4:If it's the barbell, I think I know what it is.
Speaker 2:What might it be? Go ahead.
Speaker 4:My memory is you keep the barbell as tight to your thighs and calves as you can and you just go down and hinge at the waist there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and how have you improved in that since you first walked into that room?
Speaker 4:Well, sometimes he has us stand close to the bench racks and then have us go out and have our butt touch the rack there, and then have us go out and have our butt touch the rack there and then we know we've gone far enough and come back up, because the hinge is a really hard thing hard motion to learn. So that was definitely fun to see that progress.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what Frank has done in the weight room for not only the cross-country program but our athletics department as a whole, the culture within kind of West Ottawa athletics has really, I think, transformed a little bit. And, coach, you've obviously seen a transition between the old high school and the new high school. The strength training improving, all of those things Talk to me a little bit about kind of, I guess, what you've seen over the course of your time here at West Ottawa and maybe the changes that have happened that stick out in your mind as far as high school athletics is concerned.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm going to start with now with what Frank Lurchin has done, and go back a little bit, because it is not just the strength, it's not just the lifting, and it's it's he income. He covers everything, he covers nutrition. He just had somebody in to give them a talk on nutrition on Monday. He has that fully stocked room where you get the food and everything. It is amazing, though, that all of the athletes totally accept the skinny boys showing up to lift.
Speaker 2:I mentioned that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they completely respect it. There's a lot of times there will be other athletes from other programs in there and they'll look up at what the workouts are. Oh, no, no, I'm doing what the cross-country guys are doing today. No, no, no, I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. So that is a huge change, that is.
Speaker 1:I mean, what I used to do to get us in the weight room was I got the key for the south building weight room, which I believe only the swimmers really use, because it's so handy right there, right there by the pool, and so in the summer we would do some lifting, not a whole lot, but two or three days a week in that room, but it was almost, almost as if we were doing that incognito. It's like on the sly cross country guys slid in there, did their stuff and got out of there, is it? That is a big, big change and I like, I like what he's what, what we've got up there too as far as all the free rates. That's, that's awesome. Yeah, we've what. We've got up there too as far as all the free rates.
Speaker 3:That's awesome. Yeah, we've invested in it and I think we're seeing the benefits of it.
Speaker 2:You also expanded your coaching staff a little bit in the last couple of years. We talked with some other coaches before and they talk about how it's important to have other coaches around you. That can sometimes just tell you something or add something you didn't think of. Can you guys talk a little bit about uh, jesse, like on the team, and maybe boston you can start. What's it like to have him around?
Speaker 4:it's great he's. He knows a lot about the science behind running and it's really important to know, like, how to fine-tune it to get the right results, how to fine-tune your workouts to get exactly what you want. And just recently up north he took videos of us doing strides so that he could know what our strides look like and know if we should fix something about it, if there's something that could be done better, if there's something that could be causing injuries, stuff like that done better, if there's something that could be causing injuries, stuff like that. And he really knows, like, how to get the right results from training and not just run for running, to run to get faster, and how to do that efficiently.
Speaker 3:Rodney, I think that sounds like you need an appointment with coach Like that could turn into a three part series.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would be great, I'm sure I do notice that when I run, I hold my hands tight to my chest when I run, which is not good. I got to get them moving this direction and not like that, of course. So yeah, I'm sure I could gain a lot from coach. What's it like for you after a number of years? Have you had other coaches with you before? Is this new for you?
Speaker 1:This was new. One of our athletes, one of our captains, actually asked me what did you think when you first met Coach Jesse? And he's thinking when I took Jesse on as an assistant? But I said, well, I met him when he was a freshman because he's one of my runners and he will tell you he's a running nerd and he will give them as much type of thing.
Speaker 1:He's a running nerd and he will give them as much information as they want. He said I can take it down to the molecular level if you want me to. But yeah, he will explain why things happen. He's still running himself and he knows what he does wrong in his gait and he is very quick to analyze what is happening with these guys. So it's, it's been fantastic.
Speaker 1:We complement each other really well as coaches, I think right, because he does know the science so much better than I do. What you do not want is you do not want frank and jesse in here at the same time, because you guys won't say anything and they'll just roll and it'll be the Frank and Jesse show, because if they start talking about exactly what muscle is being activated and how, and then how you can change that with eccentric, no, you better not go reset, it'll be, it'll be something. So, yeah, coach Jesse's knowledge is, it's fun. Sometimes his explanations leave us wondering, like the hay in the barn. Last year we we didn't know if we're supposed to eat the hay in the barn. Last year we didn't know if we were supposed to eat the hay. We're supposed to be doing this mileage to put something in the barn and we were putting the hay in the barn.
Speaker 4:This year it's money in the bank, yeah.
Speaker 1:I like money in the bank better than hay in the barn. You can't do a lot. Once the hay is in there, what do you do? But you put money in the bank. It's there, or gas in the tank.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Love it, that's so nice. That's so nice. Let's talk a little bit about the pain cave. This is a cross-country term. It's very familiar in running circles, but maybe to someone listening to this podcast it's something. This is very similar on the lines of embrace this suck, obviously.
Speaker 4:Can you talk a little little about the pain cave and what that means in cross-country of austin? Um, so it's kind of just how comfortable you can be being uncomfortable. Uh, you need to be able to just keep going even though you feel like you want to stop, because your brain's always going to tell you that you can't do something until you've already done it. So even though I know I can run a 5k, at that halfway mark my brain is telling me I can't because it hurts. So we just go deeper into the pain cave and get comfortable being there and comfortable like living there sometimes we say and just staying down there, going deeper and deeper, more pain, but still pushing through it.
Speaker 2:You talk about the pain cave and your voice gets more excited when we get in there. Oh, and the pain gets better and I mean it's, it's great, so it's a, but it's a cross country thing, right, and a running thing, and all that Definitely, distance running in general, right, right.
Speaker 2:So it's kind of a big thing with that, definitely distance running in general, right, right, so it's kind of a big thing with that. You also, if we talk about the pain cave and some cool things about running, I heard you have a little bit of an alter ego when you run. You are known for your hair, right, sure? So it's been, I think, what three years since you got a haircut, something like that, something like that. And you're also known for wearing a hat, correct. But something happens when you race where you change that up a little bit. Can you go into some detail what happens when it's race time and what happens with your hat?
Speaker 4:So this track season I decided I wanted to have a way to tell myself that I was focusing and locked in for a race. So when I felt like I needed to be locked in for the start of the race I flipped my hat backwards to kind of focus and that's kind of partially aerodynamics. But Jesse's.
Speaker 2:Jesse's was part of that.
Speaker 4:A little bit of both, of being at the focus, being able to have something specific just for race time, so something to differentiate from for my mental state of being either racing or just like running a workout or warming up or maintenance running. I just keep it normal and not backwards, because I want to be able to differentiate between racing and not racing.
Speaker 2:And so mentally that just gives you an edge when you're running, gives you some more focus. Do you have a name for what that is. Like Kobe was of course the Mamba or Black Mamba, I'm open to suggestions Maybe your teammates can come up with something for you that would be fun to do.
Speaker 3:And coach, you have had something that you have done with your team over the years that I've gotten to witness, particularly at state finals. The sand ceremony, oh yeah, Talk to us a little bit about what the sand ceremony is and kind of where that came from and what that does for the team.
Speaker 1:So the best way to explain the sand is to say what it is not. It is not good luck. It's not some kind of weird cult, there's no magic involved, and this came from a hill.
Speaker 1:When I was a young coach. The first time I was on a school bus that pulled into Johnson Park for a meet with Granville, one of my runners said oh no, look at that hill. And this is. You have all these sand dunes around here. And I was disgusted and I thought there's got to be something. These guys have run up sand dunes. The sand's coming down at you. This hill can't do that. So I got an old spice jar a jar that was time, get it time t-h-y-m-e. And uh, nice, fill that with sand. And then, about 15 minutes before the race, I I let them have a little, I just gave them a little bit of sand. I said just feel that that's, that's what you've been training on. No hill, no hill is going to be like these dunes. And then that just became a tradition. It's always 15 minutes before race time. It is in a way a reminder to the guys okay, we're 15 minutes from race time.
Speaker 1:The gun goes off Another lock-in moment we're going to start to get our focus Right. Most of the parents understand too. Oh, this is the time. Cross country is one of those sports where the fans the girlfriend, the mom.
Speaker 2:Right in there.
Speaker 1:The grandma pulling her oxygen tank. They can all be right there, you know, right with you before you head up to the line. So they kind of, they see the sand and they're like, okay, they just back off and take some photos. And there have been some interesting things with the sand. And they're like, okay, they just back off and take some photos. Um, and there have been some interesting things with the sand. But when it's a big race, that's when we get the big, all the big jar comes out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I remember, uh, karsten cole at the state finals a couple of years back and he gave him some in his hands and he rubbed it around in his hands and I think he even gave him like, uh, he gave himself a facial. Yeah, you know with with the sand, you know exfol, you know exfoliating, I guess.
Speaker 4:Everyone has their own rituals with the sand. What do you do with it? Really?
Speaker 2:What are a few that you see your teammates do?
Speaker 4:Some people I've seen put like make a circle of sand around themselves. Some people do the LeBron James and throw it up in the air. Some people shake it onto their shoes.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh, I love, I love the different things we do as athletes right To to have some fun with something.
Speaker 2:To walk in Well that's really cool because it kind of makes me think about the lakeshore a little bit as an athlete, as a runner. What a gift to live in this area to do your runs. I am down by Lake Michigan a lot during the summer. One of my favorite times in late summer is when the pack the packs of cross country athletes go up and down the Lake shore. It's really, really fun. We have a great area to run and you guys are running a lot at Riley trails right now. Right, boston, you talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 4:We just finished up our last practice at Riley trails, I think for the rest of the summer, and it's a really fun place to run sometimes because there's trails and they make you feel fast sometimes, and but also there's hills that make you feel slow sometimes. So it's.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of cutbacks at certain points, right.
Speaker 4:A lot of variety and there's a nice landfill loop we call it around the landfill in this old landfill in the center of riley trails. Uh, um, and that's about 2k. We just did a workout on that on monday.
Speaker 2:So you guys run together a lot. What time of day, what kind of workouts are you doing out there?
Speaker 4:uh, we meet at 8 am, not sharp because we have to wait for other people to get there, but 8 am. Everyone gets there and we all run together. Um monday we had a I did three by 2k on the landfill loop. We call it again uh. And then we do a little recovery for like three minutes and then back do another rep and um. Then on wednesday we went to benjamin's. Hope has some trails there and we call that llama which is just up the road on yeah, on riley yeah, yeah, and we call that llama loop because there's alpacas, but we call them llamas.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I love it, oh they're alpacas and you call them llamas.
Speaker 3:Yes, the alpaca is the most social animal oh.
Speaker 4:Oh really, yeah, Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, and we did a workout there where we did some 60s and then 200 meters and then 400 meters and then more 200 meters, kind of faster stuff. We got to wear our spikes, which we haven't done in a while all summer. Which spikes are racing shoes for cross country. They've got little sharp, pointy, literal spikes on the bottom that you screw in and they help you get traction and just run faster. People wear them for track too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, coach, maybe talk a little bit about how important it is for you to have those variety right, because running can be very monotonous, yep, monotonous, repetitive.
Speaker 1:It is. I try to remind the guys all the time how lucky we are to have the places to run that we do and some of those other teams in the OK Red don't have that. Granville has the mall. They don't really have a park nearby. Um, east kentwood's lucky, they have a little course right on their campus, but other than that they don't have a lot. And uh, we will start our first week of mandatory practice at tunnel park and from there we can go all over the place. Uh, keppel has, uh, keppel park. Keppel Forest has a wonderful little trail. It's hard-packed sand with pine needles. On top of that. The cushioning is amazing.
Speaker 1:One of the changes that we've made the last several years is off of pavement as much as possible. That helps prevent injury In places like Riley Trails or Keppel, because you get the shade In places like Riley Trails or Keppel, because you get the shade. But also, coach Jesse did a study of elite athletes who are runners, swimmers and bikers and 80% of their workouts are easy things. It's the other 20% where you're really working hard. So we take the easy days very easy. And that is when Boston mentions maintenance around. That is, maintaining the fitness level you have. You're not pushing anything and you're in a conversational. You can. You can have a conversation with a person running next to you. You go slightly faster than that. You're getting a few words out and then, when you're really racing, you're. There's no oxygen for the words, you're just going. But we spent a lot of time with maintenance.
Speaker 4:And that easy run is really helpful back to building team bonding because you can just tell stories, talk, just generally hang out and just be still doing our sport, which I think is a great thing about our sport, yeah and I don't want people to think that maintenance just means oh, no problem.
Speaker 1:No, these guys are doing serious mileage while they're having these conversations. I just told one of the one of the one of Boston's fellow sophomores that had I gone back in time to when that young man's older brother was on the team and told them you're running for 55 to 60 minutes or 65 to 70 minutes, I would have had a revolution. They would have said no, there's no way. 40 minutes would have been their top end for a single run. And these guys just oh, okay, here we go, and sometimes we have to pull them back a little bit. They want to go a little bit longer and go a little bit faster on a day when really you should be letting your body recover from that tough workout with the 60s and the 200s and the 400s.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the way, the way the science of running has progressed. There's a lot to be gained from that, from that what they call easy runs right, that easy long run and to somebody looking in on it's almost counterintuitive. Yes, oh, I need to go hard, I need to do this, but no, today you need to go a minute, minute and a half slower than your regular pace, need to get into that zone, need to chill, um, your body will be just fine and it's that crucial element of recovery. I'm getting the blood moving in your body. It's, it's, uh, it's something I'm, I'm, I spent a lot of time in those and recovery runs. No, um, but yeah, it's, uh, it's something I'm I'm.
Speaker 2:I spent a lot of time in those and recovery runs no, um, but yeah, it's, uh it's I.
Speaker 1:I'm very excited to hear about the science behind what you guys are doing well, that was one of my concerns about boston doing those 10ks was really we don't want him racing four days in a row or four out of five days, and it turns out he actually did some. You did some maintenance runs during during the 10 Ks, so that was. That was a relief.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the hat was forward. In how many races? Two, what Two of the four? Your hat was forward, correct?
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, one thing I'm always curious about. So you guys are doing a lot of mileage. Um, obviously, frank has has brought in some people to talk about nutrition. What is Boston? What does your diet look like? As somebody that really needs you know, I could gain weight just by looking at food Like what is your intake need to be like, as you're building up for a cross-country season?
Speaker 4:So for me in particular, it's really hard because I'm vegetarian, so I definitely have a very different diet than most of my teammates, but definitely a lot of protein after workouts, and for me trying to find ways to get protein, I have to figure that out.
Speaker 2:Where do you get it from?
Speaker 4:Beans, dairy chickpeas, lots of again, lots of dairy products. Uh um eggs. Sometimes we have like fake meat patties like sure impossible meat.
Speaker 2:So stuff like that so yeah, how many calories. Do you count calories in a day, or you just go volume eat till I'm full?
Speaker 4:I just volume eat till I'm full.
Speaker 2:I do not count calories because which is very healthy not to do, by the way yeah, especially distance runners.
Speaker 4:Don't need to worry about getting too chubby, usually no that was one of the things we did up north.
Speaker 1:That is not really sneaky, because they knew what was happening, but the meals were planned specifically to show them there are healthier options.
Speaker 2:And there's some great food when you do that too, right, oh yeah we had whole wheat spaghetti noodles.
Speaker 1:They had no clue. It was whole wheat spaghetti noodles. That was the spaghetti noodles to them.
Speaker 4:That's the first I'm hearing of whole wheat spaghetti noodles yeah, we didn't tell you Right.
Speaker 1:And then the sauce had all kinds of vegetables in it, I mean zucchini and carrots and broccoli, and there was just tons of stuff in there. We had the muffins. Those muffins really shouldn't be muffins, they're too healthy with all of the vegetables. And then we served turkey burgers, which they didn't care. They were so hungry.
Speaker 4:They're like okay, I want a turkey burger.
Speaker 1:It's not a real burger, but I love the turkey burger and a lot of vegetables and a lot of fruit and yeah that was. I'm hoping you can hear in the conversations that it has changed the last couple years as far as the runners' attitudes toward not just the work but also what are you eating and are you getting enough water, and all that. They constantly check each other. It's awesome.
Speaker 4:Every day after practice, captain Michael Doomer says all right, get good sleep, drink lots of water, eat good food, and then we break down. Yeah, and I'm sure that.
Speaker 3:Frank keeps driving those things home. Right, there's so much that goes into performance. It's what I ate that day. How much sleep did I get that night before water hydration, particularly for those of you that are doing those really long runs.
Speaker 2:I'm excited for this program going into this fall. I went and went through the past few seasons, looked at some of the results and for a while there we were near the bottom for a bit. But last year you were not. No, you were a very healthy middle of the pack and a lot of your meets last year. How exciting is it to have a year where you go to that spot. And now you're upon your next season in year two. What's it like for you guys?
Speaker 4:I'm really excited because, like I remember distinctly going to watch the state final meets with my dad when I was in like middle school and seeing that we had one guy runner there and I thought that was kind of sad, and I also remember thinking how cool would it be to run at this meet, because, especially cause it's at the Michigan international speedway in Brooklyn, michigan, which is just a giant car racetrack, and it's such a cool atmosphere there that I've always wanted to race there, and so now the chance that our team can and hopefully will go there this season is so fun and I can't wait so it's one of my favorite weekends of the entire school calendar is getting down there.
Speaker 3:I've been very fortunate and been able to get down to MIS. Um, each season we've had a couple of single male qualifiers. Obviously, the girls have done a really nice job of getting there over the years, but absolutely electric atmosphere.
Speaker 4:So many people um my, I have a letter board in my room and it says uh, michigan international speedway, brooklyn, michigan oh, you have that up every every day I wake up and I see that well, you know, let's be honest too.
Speaker 2:Right of all the fall sports, the atmosphere of a cross-country mate is right near the top. I mean, you got, you got everybody with their tents up the everyone's warming up right. Everyone's pretty loud. You have fans, you have people walking dogs on the course. Of course you're chasing the runner, you're watching. So boston passes by and off. We are to the next spot. If we can get there in time, it's electric. And then you get into the time where the leaves are falling and the air gets a little crisp yep, temperatures drop and the times drop.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Our first meet is coming up here. It's under the lights which is South Christian. That's a really fun one because it's first meet of the year for almost every team that's there, and they run some races at midnight even, and we're going to be running at like 10 o'clock at night.
Speaker 2:I think, oh, you've got a late draw on that then.
Speaker 4:So I'm excited to run. It's dark and people have headlamps. It's really fun.
Speaker 1:There's fireworks yeah, there's fireworks. They fire the gun for every race and then, shortly after the gun goes off, they shoot some fireworks into the sky.
Speaker 4:Which is very confusing because the warning if there's a false start or if someone falls is another gunshot. And so I think some people have stopped when they heard the fireworks and thought it was the second time Happens every year.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's really funny. What are you guys' expectations this year, coach, you have almost like a pack of runners that are all kind of really improved right. Yes, can you explain?
Speaker 1:We actually have. The expectations are very high.
Speaker 1:We are going to be much better than the OK Red, which is one of the toughest conferences in the state in this sport and in a lot of sports, yep, and we want to qualify as a team for state and we can and we will. That front pack is what will carry us to success, but we have a backpack too there. Okay, there are four guys on the team who think that they're number one. In their head they're the number one guy. That's fantastic, and they do. They will be right on each other's heels. It's going to be a battle all season long, but then that next group of guys is not that far behind and they're all together. I overheard a conversation this summer between a couple of runners who were saying who?
Speaker 2:are they?
Speaker 1:I don't want to say who it was.
Speaker 1:They just said, it's going to be tough to get into the top 10 on this team. This is the best team I have ever coached and they've got a chance to do some things. They changed that record board last year in three spots in the gym. They're going to really change it this year. Now, just so you know, in case you ever do get a chance to talk to Coach Jesse, there are six people whose goal it is to be faster than Coach Jesse's best time in high school. Do you happen to know his time? I don't 16.35.
Speaker 4:Okay, so there are six guys who want to be ahead of that.
Speaker 1:And he's so happy. He could not be happier.
Speaker 2:A lot of fun stuff going on with this team. This has been great. I really love it. I really love it.
Speaker 3:One of the other highlights early season race is obviously the annual Breidaway Invitational here at West Ottawa. I remember going back to my first year here when I was the athletic director at Forest Hill Central. We didn't have a course, so I never had hosted a cross-country meet in my career. And then we're at Breidaway and this is before we kind of reconfigured the course it really came out of this year. We were back tucked away at the old soccer stadium and things were really jammed up and I just remember walking away like man. We could make this thing really awesome with a couple of tweaks and I think over the years we've we've done a really good job of it and we're starting to get more teams. Boston what's it like for you as an athlete to have all of these teams kind of on your home course?
Speaker 4:It's really fun, especially for people who ran cross country in middle school, Because the middle school courses that's obviously where the Bredaweg is the course is at the middle school and I remember for most of our practices we would just run the course run it forwards, run it backwards, run it forwards and backwards and just really memorize that.
Speaker 4:And it's really fun being able to know our course and I know it like the back of my hand. So, uh, it's really fun to see everyone come there and there's a lot of good memories associated with that, those places because to a lot of people it just looks like a bunch of practice football fields. But, uh, when it's all dressed up for breadweg, uh, it's great, especially because, like that's where I broke into the 19 minutes for my uh 5k last year. That was like one of my breakout races, so it's really fun to see everyone come here. I'm gonna make it a segment on Strava, our running app.
Speaker 3:Oh, there we go, so yeah, so Rodney kind of mentioned it earlier kind of the electricity around a cross-country meet, and that's a day when the day is a very long day, right? Usually Coach Noel and I meet each other at the track barn sometime between 5 and 6 am. It's still dark out and we start, you know, kind of getting things organized, but then the electricity and the energy around the place is just palpable for the day and then very fortunate for us this year then we turn right around on Monday and host an OK Red Jamboree to kick off.
Speaker 1:It'll be.
Speaker 3:Tuesday or Tuesday, yeah, to kick off that conference season. What does that do, coach, from your perspective? Your guys get a chance to get out there for the braid-away before getting into that conference meet. That is ultimately a really important one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, having the home meets is just phenomenal. One of the main reasons we keep going with the braid-away every year is to have that home meet, because the OK Red cross-country season changed about 10, 12 years ago. No more dual meets, and so we just meet the OK Red once early in the season, once in the middle and then once at the end. It's everybody on the course at the same time. So it's wonderful to have the home meets. We get great fans. Probably that's the toughest thing is making sure people are not walking onto the course, don't I know it?
Speaker 3:That crosswalk that I manned is.
Speaker 2:The indifference of? Yeah, there's a cross-country meet going on right now. Put yourself second.
Speaker 3:My voice is usually shot by the end of that day. Hey, they're running that line is the course.
Speaker 1:They've got sharp things on their feet. But yeah, I think the OK Reds are going to get a little wake-up call that Tuesday after.
Speaker 2:Breidaway, though I love it. Boston. What are your own personal goals this year?
Speaker 4:I want to make it, if I can, into the top seven. The top five count for scoring unless there's a tie, obviously, but the top seven is varsity and I really want to make varsity this year, which is going to be very hard considering how great our team is, but in a time goal, I think it'd be great to break 17 minutes.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a big drop. Yeah, you're not playing around.
Speaker 4:Well, Coach Jesse said at the cabin up north that goals are supposed to be really ambitious, but not a dream. So that's how I built that goal.
Speaker 2:I love that. That's really awesome. We're going to finish up here, but we were about to get started, we were doing a mic check and I asked you about your T-shirt. It was really fun. Can you tell you about your t-shirt? It was really fun. Can you tell me about your t-shirt again, because it's really cool?
Speaker 4:So up north near the Lansing area there is a state park called Sleepy Hollow State Park and once a year actually today I think is the day they have a 5-mile, 10-mile and half-marathon trail race up at the state park up there and it's really fun. I've done it with my dad a couple of years and, uh, my brother did it with us once and we just go up there and we camp at the campground and then we race and it's really fun, especially because it's right on a little lake there it's not on the big lake, but a little lake there and after the race we just go jump in the lake and it's really fun up there.
Speaker 2:That's a really good finish. Yeah, there's nothing like the running t-shirt there are some great designs and all that stuff, but they're such really awesome.
Speaker 4:Like half my wardrobe is race t-shirts.
Speaker 2:That's right, and the hats to match.
Speaker 4:And the hats to match yeah.
Speaker 2:Of course, all right. Well, this has been remarkable to sit down with you guys. It's been really fun. It's been terrific. We are looking forward to this cross-country season coming up. Head coach Chris Knoll and sophomore Boston Wilkinson, thank you for being on the show. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Thank you, thanks for having us.
Speaker 2:Thanks so much, guys. All right, see you next time. Thanks, thanks.
