Faith v. Religion
Jeff and Tracy cover a variety of Biblical topics from a believer's perspective. They are not pastors, theologians, or clergy instead they share their personal experiences with The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit through His revelation to them. Jeff and Tracy believe one does not need an intercessor to have access to our Heavenly Father, simply belief in Jesus Christ of Nazareth who came in the flesh, the Messiah.
Faith v. Religion
Faith, Love, and Spiritual Battles: Finding Healing and Divine Guidance Through Loss and Deliverance
What happens when we lose a beloved pet and the routine joys they bring to our daily lives? Join us on "He Speaks with Jeff and Tracy," where we share a heartfelt prayer and a personal story of loss that uncovers deeper spiritual truths. We explore how the anguish of losing a pet can mirror God's own grief for humanity, drawing from Ezekiel 14:11 to illustrate His desire for our closeness and faithfulness. Through our conversation, we hope to offer comfort and insight to those grappling with similar heartache.
Have you ever felt broken, especially in your role as a parent, and wondered how faith could guide you towards healing? Listen to a moving recount of self-discovery and spiritual growth, where children emerge as powerful truth detectors. We discuss the transformative journey of a coworker introduced to deliverance through Charles Kraft's "Deep Wounds, Deep Healing," emphasizing the importance of seeking spiritual guidance and being open to profound change. This segment will resonate deeply with anyone yearning for genuine faith and deliverance.
How do you navigate the spiritual battles within a marriage and find scriptural confirmation to guide you through? We share a compelling family saga involving a generational heirloom with spiritual implications, the resulting family conflict, and the path to reconciliation through prayer and faith. Reflecting on Ephesians 1:7-10 and Paul's letters, we discuss the timeless consistency of God's word and the blessings found amid trials. Concluding with a heartfelt prayer of gratitude, we celebrate the divine guidance and living presence of God’s Spirit, reminding us of His perfect will and unending mercy.
Hello everybody and welcome to. He Speaks with Jeff and Tracy. First things first. We're not theologians, we're not pastors. We are simply believers in Christ. We believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, that he's the Son of God. We believe in a triune God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We're not here to debate the Bible. We believe the Bible is factual, man-breathed doctrine and we believe that God and his works are all supernatural. And you have to have that understanding in order to understand faith.
Speaker 2:Dear Heavenly Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. We just praise you and just thank you. Heavenly Father, we thank you for being with us. We ask that you be with us during this podcast and that we reveal anything that you need us to reveal, anything you need us to correct. We just ask for that correction wherever we're wrong.
Speaker 2:Heavenly Father, we ask that everything that comes to us be through you, from you, nothing satanic, demonic, nothing negative, anything that's not of you. We bind and rebuke, cast into the lake of fire in the name of Jesus Christ, of Nazareth that came in the flesh. Heavenly Father, we realize that you are the potter and we are just the clay. We pray that you would mold us into your perfect image. Heavenly Father, we pray that you would empty our hearts of hate, judgment and resentment and fill it with discernment, hope and joy. Glory be to you, Heavenly Father, the King of kings, the Lord of lords, and we know that your will will be done, no matter how much we try to interfere. And, heavenly Father, we just praise you and thank you In Jesus' mighty name. Jesus, christ of Nazareth, you came in the flesh.
Speaker 3:Lord, I just also come before you and I ask that you put a conduit over the waves and air frequencies as they go out, father, not allowing the enemy to disturb or manipulate any of your message that you have for us to give. Lord, I also ask that you seal all mirrors and anything reflective with the blood of Jesus, keeping us from all Lord. I also ask that you seal all mirrors and anything reflective with the blood of Jesus, keeping us from all evil. Watching, hearing and partaking in the message you have with us today. Lord, we just thank you for your mercy and grace and we dedicate this time to you In Jesus' name, amen, amen.
Speaker 2:Okay, here's an interesting thought that I had, tracy, you know, the whole idea on this thing is we don't ever plan a show out. We just kind of listen to what the Lord has for us and what the Lord reveals for us, and then we kind of operate on a little bit of an outline and try to look some verses up and stuff like that. But I had a thought. I just wanted to mention something real quick. The other day I lost my little dog and it was the hardest thing that I've ever gone through. And the funny thing is, at 48 years old I kind of have to laugh about it. So it's OK, but it was harder than losing my grandma and my aunt.
Speaker 2:I've never gone through a loss like this. And then it dawned on me I had lived such a just a crazy life and I don't never stood in a state in one place very long. But the most constant thing in my entire life was this little dog for 11 years. And I think that when loss hits you so hard, it's when it. It's not really that whether it's a, an animal, it doesn't matter if it's a person. I think the what the artist thing about it is is when it disrupts your daily routine and we're such a creature of habit but I I think it's deeper than that.
Speaker 3:I think that that is the first thing you gave yourself to unconditionally. You took care of this dog and I'll ask ourselves if it's like you grew when the dog was like through age. You both rise together, you both matured together and you you don't have children, so you forge yourself into it like it's your child, and it is a deep loss.
Speaker 2:It's yeah, yeah, it was, you know it was, it was the most wild thing. And then so I've been praying, so the last so it's been about three days since all this happened and anyway. So I've been praying about it and I thought, oh, you know, I understand, I understand, things die, people die understand. All of this happened Anyway. So I've been praying about it and I thought, oh, you know, I understand, I understand, things die, people die. I understand all of that with death and how it goes.
Speaker 2:I just prayed to the Lord for comfort and guidance in this time and it was funny because it's been silent and I've just kind of been in this kind of weird grieving process. And then I was driving here today to the studio and it dawned on me. The Lord tells me. He says that feeling, that just that sapness, when your heart is so empty because of love, because you love so much, that's how much I love you and all mankind, and when you stray from me, that's exactly how I feel. And he goes that's why we have to go through this is to learn that.
Speaker 2:So I thought that was a pretty, pretty wild thing, a pretty wild revelation that I wanted to bring up, but it kind of. And then I thought well, man, how does that really tie in? So then the Lord leads me to Ezekiel 14, 11. Then the people of Israel will no longer stray from me, nor will they defile themselves anymore with their sins. They'll be my people and I'll be their. God declares the sovereign Lord, and of course that's the New International Version.
Speaker 2:But I thought how profound was that, and so I wanted to mention that first, because it kind of segues into something that we kind of wanted to talk about. We hear so many times at least I do, and I'm sure you've heard it. I mean, you hear it from pastors and everything else. I'm not the only person that's ever heard this or brought it up, but for so many non-believers the big thing is is they always say, why do children get hurt? Why do children die? And if God's so loving, why does he allow these things to happen and he doesn't intervene on behalf of children? And then you have to wonder and think, especially the day and age that we live in, with all this child trafficking and everything else, and that all this child abuse and stuff like that. So I kind of wanted to see where you weighed in on this type of thought and what the Lord's revealed to you about it.
Speaker 3:Well, first and foremost, he gave us free will. Free will isn't going to always be used for good and he unfortunately knew that, and that's why he gave us the ultimate sacrifice of his son, his own child, so that we could seek him in our times of hurt, so that he could guide us through it, because he's he, he. He actually perfected it. I think children have an innocence and they don't have choice in it. So in that sense, they already have. They're on the express flight, they go right to Jesus's arms. So I think that I find comfort in knowing that a child that is hurt, there's a special place. That's hard for those kids, and I do feel like he watches out for them differently. Do I always understand it? No, but I will never have his understanding. I'm grateful for the little bit that he has given me, grateful for the little bit that he has given me. So, by saying that, unfortunately, I think free will is the ultimate culprit in a lot of evil.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I see that. I can see that because, as in, I mean, the Bible tells us over and over, but especially in Job it references it where the devil is really. Satan is the prince of the earth. He just wanders the earth looking for people to corrupt and manipulate and steal from and steal their innocence and stuff like that. And so do you think that whenever a child is abused or anything else you hear so many stories about children that are abused but then as an adult they've been able to work their way through it and almost every time it's very consistent message is that Jesus played a role. Do you believe that children, do you know that innately? I mean, sometimes I just think this because as a child, especially coming from the homes, that generally, sometimes some of that comes in God is very much not a part of that life. You know hasn't been invited in by the family is what I mean, but it's almost like it's something innate that children know that there's something higher than them.
Speaker 3:Well, I think, I truly think, that children are spiritual beings from the beginning. We as parents and as adults take that spirituality from them. For instance, I think kids feel the spirit realm. I don't know if they necessarily see in it, only because I don't believe that you actually see in the spiritual realm until your bell's been torn like there's been some form of abuse towards you. Sure. However, I believe that they sense the spirit realm, kind of like an animal does Right, like dogs, I think see and actually sense the spirit realm, kind of like an animal does right, like dogs, I think see and actually sense the spiritual realm.
Speaker 3:With that being said, kids like they'll have imaginary friends. Those can actually be a familiar spirit, something that's assigned to the family. I think they see, I think angels make their presence and they have that comfort of knowing. I think Jesus actually has revealed himself to them in some fashion prior to them being of age to be accountable for their own lives. I know that my daughter had imaginary friends when she was a kid and she actually had them named. She called them Sandy and Sarah. I really believe that they were twins because at the time my husband was coaching and had twin girls on the name and that means for Sandy and Sarah. So she associated that they were similar. Oh well, they were twins. I'm the one that told her honey, I don't see anybody, they're not there, so I'm the one that shut that down. Yeah, they're not there, so I'm the one that shut that down. Yeah. So I think that they are spiritually in tuned, more so than we know, and we shut it down, not realizing, because we don't, we forget. We live in the spirit realm.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So tell me that we bring up spirit realm more than any any person that I've, that I've ever known, and tell me your testimony with the spirit. How did it do? Were you just always, as I guess, a kid? Did you always believe like there was a spirit realm, or or what was the major thing in your life that happened that really just solidified where you said I know 100%, god is real, I feel him, I talked to him, I love him, and that connection just went out in your heart, just said, oh my gosh, my heart, I'm truly a child of God. God is my father, he is the way, the truth and the light. What was that moment that made that happen for you?
Speaker 3:I think it was early adulthood, after child children, specifically when my children were probably the ages of like five and seven, realizing that I was a very broken person and my brokenness could affect my kids and I didn't know how to pray for them. I thought I did, I thought I knew the Lord, but it wasn't until that moment of breaking down and, just as someone would say, get get on your face. I was on the ground, sobbing hysterically, crying out to him, saying I'm failing, I need your help, I can't do this. I need you to help me. My children need, need a whole person. And it was in that moment that he just revealed himself to me and at that point I was like, okay, there is a God. He's bigger than I thought. Yeah, Wow.
Speaker 3:But it took having children. That was my aha moment.
Speaker 2:Man and it seems like so many times we get bogged down. We get bogged down into just very generic Christianity and and sometimes you just got to go and go super deep. And of course children know how to do that. They have a way of asking a question.
Speaker 3:Well, it goes back to Scripture. Come give me a chat, Mike.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, there you go and so, yeah, that was good, that was really good. I like that. That's how I was trying to figure out. Sometimes they're truth detectors. I like that. That's how it that I was trying to figure out. Sometimes they're truth detectors. Yeah, absolutely, because if you want to know the truth, that's somebody's kid. If you don't believe, what Do?
Speaker 3:I look at this Not right now I mean those kids will look at you sideways and say you're not wearing that, are you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I was just thinking, like as a child, like little kids will do that to us as adults. They'll ask us something. They're like oh wow, that just went really deep. I tripped across this thing, I'll tell you. You know, I really started hearing people, especially and I know that you had mentioned this heard of just because of the way my first experience with Christ was my great grandparents. They were very conservative, like they were there from the Church of Christ so it didn't even have a band, it was just it didn't even have a choir, didn't have a band, no musical instruments, you know, just just sing hymns.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just sing old hymns, right? So very conservative part of it. But you had mentioned something to me about deliverance one time and I thought, oh, mercy me, that's what my mamaw would say she's like. Oh my goodness, way back in the early 80s I remember that she would watch Benny Hinn. She would say that his microphone pack was like an electronic device where I carried some kind of charge to where whenever he was healing people that he could zap them with electricity and there was electricity that would knock them down. So therapy works Right Like song therapy. So I know that whenever you first mentioned deliverance to me, that was my first reaction. I thought, oh, mercy me, she's really gone down a rabbit hole with somebody and let her there. So tell me about this, tell me about your experience with deliverance, because there's a really good after story to this as well. That ties in kind of where Tracy and I we kind of share a testimony there, where the end result kind of comes together and then brought this podcast about. Okay.
Speaker 3:So my deliverance. Actually, I had a coworker who became a dear friend we. She was kind of new, she comes in one day and there was something within her that recognized the brokenness within me. That recognized the brokenness within me and it was at the time that I was really seeking God, like trying to like, just figure it all out?
Speaker 2:Did you have something really traumatic that brought that about? Or she just came to you and said hey, like I heard about deliverance, or I've gone through deliverance personally and I think you need to go through it too.
Speaker 3:No, I think she actually like just kind of watched me for a little, a couple of weeks probably, and then one day she knocked on my door and said, hey, you have a minute. And I'm like sure she sat down, she goes. You know, I've just kind of been watching and I want to let you know that Jesus is mighty. And I was like, okay, yeah, you know. She said what if I told you that the burdens you're carrying he'll take away? Wow, Okay, yeah. And she said would you be willing to seek him and not be ashamed of what he reveals to you and how he does it? I'm like I'm in, what do I got to do? She said, okay, so I need you to start reading the book, and it was Charles Craft, Charles. Craft.
Speaker 3:It was uh wills, a healing wound. It'll come to me. So there was a book deep wounds, deep healing that's what it was Charles Crack, deep Blue and Steep Healing. And she said you need to read this book. When you get through it, let me know and we'll move forward. I'm like, okay, great.
Speaker 3:So what was neat about it is she didn't hand hold me, which, honestly, she caught onto my personality real quick. So I struggle with authority. I do not like to be told what to do. I don't like to be suggested or strongly suggested. You should do this. Well, that means I'm going to do the opposite and I'm going to prove you wrong. It's just he. He created me. I don't know how to explain it.
Speaker 3:So she didn't get by the book for me. She didn't put it on my desk, it was you need to get this book. So at the time we had a brewer tried to read it and I tried to read it multiple times, couldn't get through the first chapter, like I would be zopped out every time. So after about a week of trying and I finally I go into the office one day I said, hey, I'm having an issue. I can't read this book. I don't know what's going on, but I fall asleep and I cannot. I can't tell you how many times I've read the first chapter and she kind of chuckled and she's all okay. Okay, I don't doubt it, she is.
Speaker 3:You need to pray before you start reading. I said, like pray help. Okay, so praying. And I said I don't know exactly how to pray me from receiving the message you have for me in this book. I bind it up in Jesus name. And I was like, okay, I can do that. So I went home, said my prayer.
Speaker 3:I'm a pretty avid reader so I was able to bust out the book in less than two days and it opened my eyes to so much because it talks about different personalities, it talks about trauma. It talks about putting those traumas in places that you can function as a normal person. It was just a really in-depth, amazing book and I didn't realize how beneficial it would be until I finished it and then started actual the deliverance process. So I actually signed up for a class online. They at the time they sent you DVDs. So that tells you it was a while ago. They sent you the DVDs and you had a workbook and you work through it. Upon completion, you met one-on-one with a deliverance minister and another person, because you always need to have a witness.
Speaker 2:We went through the process and actually my prayer took approximately two full sit-down meetings to get through it, so I started it and finished it, probably two months later so when you were reading the book and then even uh, this deliverance, uh, this deliverance course, were they just those texts or was it did an inner like where did the bible? Was the bible interwoven through it? Or did those books? They made uh references to the bible about deliverance, or yes, no, it was actually okay because I think that's where some people struggle when you they hear the word deliverance.
Speaker 2:Is it a? Is this something some preacher thought up, or is it something that's actually biblical?
Speaker 3:100, yeah so deliverance is a process of you have a core, and your core is where you invite the Holy Spirit in. Okay, however, depending on the traumas you've been through and your experiences in life will determine the sin that's in your life. And what I learned through the book is is as you go through traumas, sometimes trauma is too difficult to process, and so the Lord actually gives us the best gift he fragments your mind so that that fragment will hold onto the trauma and pain, so you can function in the world or as a normal person.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Depending on how substantial it is. He lets that trauma be held to your ready or want to deal with it so that it's not forced on you and you're not where do I think maybe someone that has schizophrenia like their situation is different. I don't know exactly if it's a mental illness or if it's just a multitude of what I experienced. I don't sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, but I've never dug in and I've never asked because it didn't pertain to me, right gotcha you know, yeah, so, and I guess that's why some people that have been through really traumatic events they'll, they don't remember it, yeah, they don't recall it, and and so I guess I can tell you.
Speaker 3:So I plan to give my testimony. But yeah, I was sexually abused as a child, oh wow. However, I did not remember any part of the abuse until I was 18 years old, reliving an act of the abuse. Did it come back to me like in a deja vu aha moment, right where, like, and I wigged out?
Speaker 2:yeah, I bet well, well yeah because there's nothing normal about that, or we'd hope that you wouldn't let anybody look at that as.
Speaker 3:No, and so, with that being said, like it's my husband who I was with and I have this full on meltdown and he is going what is going on Right To communicate with me, so I honestly believe that it was a gift that God didn't allow me to know that I was abused as a child, that it was a gift that God didn't allow me to know that I was abused as a child, because I think it definitely would have affected the way I, my competence and what I did as a child and as a young adult where I was growing.
Speaker 2:And did your husband know you were actually doing this course, going through this deliverance process?
Speaker 3:I had told him, but I don't know that he understood Really did Right.
Speaker 2:Probably registered that what it was.
Speaker 3:I think what he thought was she's just trying to better herself. Oh yeah, Right.
Speaker 3:Kind of like self-help or something. Yeah, I don't think he understood the magnitude. Well, I know he didn't understand it Right, you know Right, because a few months into the coursework this is before I even had prayer A few months into the coursework, he is before I even had prayer a few months into the coursework he would. He would tell me things like so during that time period, I was really trying to, like, clean up my act, I slowed down on drinking. So this is another thing I need to explain. So we all are created differently. I don't have an addictive personality and I hadn't Right. So when someone has an addictive personality, I hadn't right. So when someone has an addictive personality, I don't truly understand it. I can feel for them and I have empathy for them, but I don't understand because I don't have it yeah so if I start something I can stop it.
Speaker 3:So drinking was something I didn't even start truly drinking until I was a little bit older. So I just came out drinking like just wanting to change my lifestyle, wanting to be a more present parent. You know, I worked full time. My kids were in school, so when I got home in the evenings after their sporting events, I wanted to be home with them on the weekends. I didn't want to have to get a daycare provider for him. I didn't want them to have a sitter family. I wanted to be there, I wanted to be present because I was seeking a relationship with Christ and I think he was showing me like that I have to do that for my kid, like he's doing it for me, so do it for your kids. But I think during that process there was a part of my husband that felt guilty that I had changed my life. Not that I'd said anything, not that I've asked anything of him.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I just think that there was some guilt in there.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And it wasn't coming from me and it wasn't of God, but it was something that we had to address. So, as I'm going through deliverance, I really dug in and it was a kind of a make it or break it. So I had done my first round of prayer and I was really seeking God to reveal to me what I needed to be, who I needed to be, what I need to be doing. And my husband would tell me I just want my wife back. Yeah, I just want my wife back. Yeah, I just want my wife back. And I remember at one point telling him going, she's gone. I don't know how to like, I don't know how to help you with this. Like, that part of me is gone. Right, I don't love you any less. I don't love you any different. I'm just not her.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 3:So you both felt the change, oh yeah. Well, we actually had a moment that I got rid of a family heirloom that was supposed to be given to my daughter. It was passed down from generation all. So in my family, for over 200 years, every first generation was a daughter and this heirloom was passed down to this daughter. So here's my daughter. Okay, so she's supposed to receive this. So it was an inheritance, but I'm gonna say it was bequeathed. Yeah, because it wasn't of god that this heirloom was okay. It had ties to it. It wasn't the spiritual ties to it wasn't of God that this heirloom was passed down. It had ties to it. The spiritual ties to it weren't godly, but it was a symbol of God, so that you would receive it. Not understanding the ties, so I get rid of it. Well, first and foremost, my daughter told me I don't want it. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So she was spiritually in tune. I was becoming in tune. I think God was working on her too. So she was spiritually in tune. She's like I don't want that mom. So I really struggled with it but I got rid of it and I even told like I told my mom, because of course she had given it to me. So I I needed her to be on board because it can definitely cause some rift within a family, so I get rid of it. So the day I get rid of it, my husband comes in just blazing angry with me and we got in an argument. And it was one of those arguments where I sat there and listened because I knew it wasn't about the right. Yeah, I knew it wasn't. And so when we get to that level of argument, he leaves. That's his. He doesn't want to go to the next level and it's not good. So he just leaves and yeah so he leaves.
Speaker 2:So that kind of reminds me a little bit of the book of Exodus, when Moses said to the Lord why have you brought all this trouble on me? Is that why you sent me?
Speaker 3:you probably felt like that, for a moment it was kind of that moment I knew it was a spiritual attack, because I dug in enough to understand a little bit to know that this wasn't him. It was okay. So we're married, we share one spirit right in the spirit realm. Yeah, because we're married, god's the godhead and you're one flesh. Yes, correct, yeah, so I brought this heirloom into the family. I'm the one seeking correction. Of course, it's going to use my husband to get to me. Oh wow, right, yeah, so it was a spiritual thing. But also, too, I hadn't yet spiritually cleaned my house. I was just starting that process. Okay, so just fast forward within the week or we start separating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay he's like he's had enough. You're nuts yeah, crazy.
Speaker 3:I can't tell you how many times this man's told me I'm crazy. It's funny to me at this point. So I send my kids with my parents for the weekend. I tell them like let's talk about this. So he shows up, we're sitting there and he's like, listen, I can't do this anymore. If you just stop, if you stop what you're doing and just go to church like a normal person, quit digging, quit doing this.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So he's not telling you don't seek the Lord. He's just saying don't go so deep in this. It's causing problems.
Speaker 3:It's kind of like you can be a surface Christian. That doesn't hurt.
Speaker 2:But quit digging, just stop Be lukewarm.
Speaker 3:Stop making me feel guilty and stop letting the enemy use us against each other. You know what. I mean.
Speaker 3:And so it was one of the first times I heard the Lord audibly in my head and it was whom do you serve? So I'm looking at my husband and I say you gotta go, yeah, and so he literally passes shit and leaves out. He said I'll be back on sunday when you get the kids back, so we can tell them what you've done. Okay, so we were separated for six months. I continued through deliverance, but here's the thing during that six months was the hardest, best, worst thing that I and my children went through. The hurt for my children sucked watching my kids find their family fall apart. The good news is is he and I neither of us bad mouthed each other. Neither of us were disrespectful to each other. Neither of us ran each other down. We both were. We did everything that if our kids had a social engagement, sporting event, anything, we did everything with them. We drove in the same car. We were respectful.
Speaker 2:You're right, just trying to hold it together as much as you can.
Speaker 3:You told the kids this is nothing about you. This is a mom and dad issue.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:We don't agree. We're in a place and we have to find common ground again. And you know they were 10 and 12. They didn't understand, yeah, but in the long run, now they understand and they're. They're not grateful, but they see that we fixed it Right. So, with that being said, we separate. I go through my final deliverance prayer, like the final one, and literally 24 hours later, he's knocking at the door saying I'm ready to come home, let's fix this, wow, wow. And so it was in that moment that I knew it was a spiritual thing. But let me tell you my prayer from day one of him leaving was okay, lord, I will give my husband up on earth to gain him in heaven. All I ask is that you help him meet the man and father that he was supposed to be to my children. That's my ultimate prayer?
Speaker 2:yeah, and did. Do you know if he sought the lord for guidance during this time, whenever he was?
Speaker 3:no, and you know what I really didn't ask. Um, there's been right about it and he know what I really didn't ask. There's been times where we've talked about it and he said I was leaving, but didn't understand why I was leaving.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's powerful. Well then, you already knew that the Lord was working in him too.
Speaker 3:I know what I was working in. Whether he was calling out to him, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Wow, this is some powerful stuff.
Speaker 3:But I knew that the Lord was working in both of us as I was praying for him. The Lord had to fix me first. Wow, I was the one seeking yeah, of course. So he had to fix me first. So he really started digging in with my abuse defining moments, so that I understood that what Satan meant to bring me down and to make me what I was supposed to be, god had changed, to show that he strengthened my character. For it. Yeah, because I wasn't ashamed of what he was going to bring me through. Because I didn't. Okay, that is another thing. Through this whole process I didn't have a victim mentality. I did at 18, when I realized the abuse happened, I had a victim mentality. I was angry, I was mad, I wanted to ruin that, yeah, your revenge.
Speaker 2:That's a natural.
Speaker 3:That's our first and natural thought however, the good news is he didn't allow me to act on it. Good, I didn't find. It was years ago. So, yeah, I didn't have the access of the internet like we did. You know, it was different. I probably could find them now, but I don't need to because I'm over it, I'm done. He took that away. So with that I was. I thought I dealt with it. So all these years later.
Speaker 3:So let me, let me, let me tell you like every time my daughter turned the age that I was abused, I had this uneasy and this depression that would fall on me and I couldn't figure it out. I didn't know what it pertained to and I didn't know why. All I knew is that there were just certain times in my life. I didn't correlate it until I started journaling and writing things down yeah, okay, so what happened in this year? Okay, that's the year she's five, this year she's eight, so every time. But what it was was that broken little girl in me that was fragmented, that was holding those secrets yeah in a sense, was competing with my daughter because I was trying to protect.
Speaker 3:Like with everything in me I was protecting her so I thought, you know, it's like if we had people over and people were drinking and my husband said, hey, so-and-so's had too much drink. They're basically going to cash. Today, if my kids were in bed, I would make a pallet on my floor and go get my kids out of bed and put them in my room and lock the door with me in it yeah, at night because it was my job to.
Speaker 3:I never wanted them to feel what I felt. Sure I, it was my job to prove and my husband would get angry. He's like that was a family member. Well, guess what? Let me tell you. Yeah. So those family members you gotta watch out for Cause they know your weaknesses and they they know your kids patterns, so they know how to intimidate them. It's usually close friend or a family member, yeah Right, so he's like it's embarrassing, I don't care. And those were the things that I think initiated some of his frustrations with me. You're crazy, know things and that I don't care. Yeah, and would I do it again? 100, it'd probably be a little worse now, now that I understand a little more in life.
Speaker 3:Oh yes, yeah so my kids weren't allowed to spend the night in people's houses unless I, like, knew them well. But still, you can't protect them from everything you can't protect who's gonna come over yeah, yeah, so it's like you're the original helicopter mom oh, and then, and my daughter I mean she was probably 12, 13 resented like I hate you, I'm something.
Speaker 3:Now I'm doing my job, you know, and I think it was about that age I finally explained to her why I didn't let her do this. Now, my kids didn't miss out. I, you can have any friend you want over, any time. I had a house full all the time and I was fine with it, had no problem with it, but it was the only thing that I knew to do to protect them, the only way I knew how. Yeah, whether it was right, wrong or indifferent yeah, you're just a mom I think the difference is.
Speaker 3:Now I'd probably be the same mom, except for, I'd add, the layer of spiritual warfare over them when they were doing the things that weren't around me yeah, that's some powerful stuff, that is powerful.
Speaker 3:So deliverance for me was the most amazing, and I'm not going to say it was easy because it wasn't easy. No, because you deal with a lot of hurt and pain that you didn't know you were harboring. Yeah, but here I am all these years later. I mean it's been 15 plus years since I did my deliverance. All these years later and I'm sitting here going oh my goodness, deliverance is never ending. You're constantly. Because we live in such a sinful world, we need to be going through deliverance on a regular basis. We need to be pouring our heart out to the lord and asking him to clean us up, sanctifies our heart, from the darkness that we've allowed in between tv, radio and just life in general. There's just so much of it there and sometimes you don't even understand because we're so desensitized to so much we don't realize the degree and the magnitude of the darkness that we let in that day yeah, and they call them programs.
Speaker 2:Ah, you know what a channel. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know that's the. That's an amazing thing. Yeah, that's uh, what a segue that was from, from talking about deliverance to to, to the enemy coming through our uh tvs and stuff like that into programs. But it's so reminiscent. Deliverance is so reminiscent of the Old Testament, where God wanted to free the Israelites from the hand of Pharaoh and all the things that Moses went through.
Speaker 2:And that's just what makes this so powerful. It makes it so fun, especially to be able to do this, a podcast like this, that we don't even create an outline. We don't know what's so powerful. It makes it so fun, especially to be able to do this, a podcast like this, that we don't even create an outline. We don't know what's going on. We just start talking and maybe mention a few verses, and the Lord just comes in and really just takes over, and that's what makes it so fun and amazing and spiritual at the same time. And you have to realize that's where the Lord comes in, that his hand is in so many things so I'm going to.
Speaker 3:When I was writing out my testimony, you had mentioned, like asking the Lord to give you some scriptures. Yeah, yeah, go ahead and read it. Ephesians 1 7-10 it's the Amplified Classic. Read that and see how it delivered the portion that I gave you.
Speaker 2:Ephesians 1, 7 through 10. In him we have redemption, deliverance and salvation through his blood, the remission or forgiveness of our offenses, for shortcomings and trespasses, in accordance with the riches and generosity of his gracious favor, which he lavished upon us in every kind of wisdom and understanding, making known to us the mystery or secret of his will, his plan, his purpose, in accordance with his good pleasure which he had previously proposed to set forth. In him, he planned for the maturity of the times and the climax of the ages, to unify all things and head them up and consummate them in Christ, both things in heaven and things on earth.
Speaker 3:Wow, and then it glosses in 14, in whom we have our redemption through the blood, which means the forgiveness of our sins. So usually what I have found now, when I am actually studying the word, is there's usually a reference in another, in another book of scripture yes so, like you just gave the fashions I gave, they they hand in hand coincide, so that you kind of get a confirmation in his word. Yeah, oh yeah, because we are, we're always seeing, we're doubtful. Yeah, so we're always seeking confirmation.
Speaker 2:So he usually you just have to seek it started studying the Bible and actually reading it that when you find something, generally whatever you're seeking is found in the Old Testament, it's confirmed in the New Testament and to me that kind of just signifies God's word is the same. It's consistent Today, yesterday and tomorrow. You know, and that's amazing, that's so many times I hear Christians say that the Old Testament doesn't apply to us Today, yesterday and tomorrow. You know, and that's amazing so many times I hear Christians say that the Old Testament doesn't apply to us. Of course that's a whole different podcast.
Speaker 2:But I love the Old Testament and then be able to go into Ephesians and Colossians and Thessalonians and all the letters of Paul that there's just so many references in there that just confirm exactly what's going on. There's just so many references in there that just confirm exactly what's going on. And more especially, when you look at it in the context that Paul was writing all these letters from prison and he seemed like he was at a five star resort, that lesson that he just knew absolutely 100%, without a doubt, that being wrongfully convicted of anything or wrongfully imprisoned for anything is a blessing. And the Lord, I mean you're the Lord.
Speaker 3:His mercy and grace is going to be so abundant.
Speaker 2:And that was the fun part, and of course we'll dive into other things and that was kind of give a little bit of taste of some of our thoughts and how things go, but we look forward to the next one and your experiences. Yes, and everything that we do is with our experiences. I mean and I think that that goes with most anybody that's either witnessing or just spreading the gospel it's funny how, when we think that we went through something bad, the Lord just uses that as experience so that we fully understand His way and His perfect will and we can use that to share with somebody else.
Speaker 3:Okay, side note, because we were talking about this Lord, okay. So we were talking about children going through all these horrific things Kids, not Because we were talking about this Lord, okay, yeah, okay. So we were talking about children, uh-huh, going through all these horrific things, kids not knowing knowing God or Jesus. So in my deliverance it was revealed to me that Jesus was there through my abuse and that he was weeping for me.
Speaker 2:Wow, yes, as.
Speaker 3:I'm going through this for me. Wow, yes, I'm going through this. So it was probably in that moment of that. Reveal that. But he says they will never leave you nor forsake you. That I understood that scripture because he was there and you think you're alone and in the flesh you are alone, but in the spirit realm he is there and he is enduring your pain with you and it.
Speaker 3:I think that that actually gave a huge healing aspect in my, in my mind, because I was able to and keep in mind my abuse happened as a child. With that being said, when you go through that as a child, you have childlike thoughts. You process it like a child. You don't understand, you don't know how to put it in terms or context. Now, as an adult, when I processed it, I could process it in a different manner, and I could. I still wouldn't want it to happen anyway, but I could. I saw the reason behind it. So I was abused by someone who was abused. Their abuse, I believe, was way worse than what I endured. It was a learned behavior. So, where I was angry at 18, wanting to just not murder but just ruin them, I broke down in forgiveness and compassion and realized that they had it worse than me and they, they didn't ask for yeah, so it really.
Speaker 2:It changed my perception, my reality and you couldn't have done that, especially on that level. I don't. I I mean, I don't know the that kind of trauma, but I don't believe that you could have had that level of forgiveness had you not done deliverance and really dug deep with the lord, and that just goes to show you his just, he's good, he's good and he's just enduring love and mercy and grace that he has for all of us and everybody can have that.
Speaker 3:Anybody who seeks him could know that for you so currently he's working in on the unconsciousness. Yes, because trying to do you? Like to look out in the world today and you ask yourself do they have a conscience? Yeah, oh yeah. No, they don't. If they're operating any evil to that degree, they don't have a conscience. So I, I'm, I'm in a learning moment of him teaching me consciousness, and it's your consciousness that he connects to through your spirit oh yeah, and I think that we're all in a low.
Speaker 2:we everybody is in the constant learning phase, especially. I know something that you had mentioned to me last week that you had had a revelation. It was really profound with me and you said that theologians and scholars read the Bible. That was just so powerful and I thought that is exactly right, because as a believer, you're constantly seeking that confirmation and it's nowhere else but in the Bible. I mean, yes, the Lord will, through prayer and through revelation and prophecy, will give you confirmation or confirmation through others, your peers and stuff like that.
Speaker 3:as well, but you don't always receive this.
Speaker 2:You don't Right. Right, that's what. So the Bible is a great reference for that and, wow, this has been really fun. We've got to do it again, and of course we will, we're going to, but I think that's about all we have time for today.
Speaker 2:So let's wrap it up and I would say, heavenly Father, who art in heaven, we just praise you and thank you, thank you for what you have revealed for us today here on. He Speaks. We know that that is your word, and we just love you, lord, we love your grace, we love your mercy, we just love all the things that you do, and we just thank you for blessing us with the gift of faith and understanding, too, the difference between your will and free will, heavenly Father. I think that that's a bridge that so many people get lost on, and I just thank you for that clarification. I thank you for being—I just thank you for your ways, your perfect will, heavenly Father, and we thank you for your Son, jesus Christ of Nazareth, who came in the flesh, the Messiah, and I just praise you and just thank you, lord, god Almighty.
Speaker 3:Lord, we just thank you for your correction that you're going to give us daily as we walk in the world. Father, we thank you that we are in the world but we're not part of the world, and we thank you that your Spirit is alive and well In Jesus' name.
Speaker 2:Amen Thank you.