The Publishing Performance Show

Mike Hourigan - Mastering Book Promotions in 2024

September 12, 2024 • Teddy Smith • Episode 2

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Mike Hourigan is a representative from Written Word Media, a company known for its book promotion services including Free Booksy and Bargain Booksy. With extensive experience in book marketing, Mike offers valuable insights into effective promotion strategies for authors at various stages of their careers.

In this episode:

  • The difference between launch promotions and price promotions
  • The concept of promo stacking and its importance in book marketing
  • How to use free book promotions effectively to gain reviews and readers
  • Strategies for promoting both fiction and non-fiction books
  • The importance of book covers and blurbs in marketing success


Resources mentioned:

  • Email promotion services: Freebooksy, Bargain Booksy, Red Feather Romance
  • Social media advertising: Reader Reach Ads
  • Book promotion service: NewInBooks
  • Cover design resource: Reedsy


Book recommendation:


Connect with Mike Hourigan:

  • Website: writtenwordmedia.com
  • Email: hello@writtenwordmedia.com


Connect with Teddy Smith:

Join our Facebook Community - https://www.facebook.com/groups/publishingperformance/



Teddy Smith (00:01.286)
Hi everyone and welcome back to the Publishing and Performance Show. I'm here with Mike Hoerigen from Written Word Media. You might know Written Word Media from the brands Free Booksy and Bargain Booksy when you're doing free book promotions. It's a really great resource for getting some good tips on marketing and some great services as well for doing free book promotions and for getting your book out there in the world. So hi Mike, thanks for joining.

Mike Hourigan (00:21.88)
Teddy, thank you for having me. I am always happy to get on and talk about book marketing to hopefully help some authors. So thank you for giving me the opportunity to do

Teddy Smith (00:33.232)
Brilliant. No, thank you very much. I've used Free Books here a couple of times. It's a really great service when you're trying to get your launch. That launch is quite a difficult process. You're trying to get the first reviews, to get it out there, first sales. So yeah, thank you for your good service.

Mike Hourigan (00:49.8)
Of course, yeah, glad it's worked well for you and certainly looking forward to talking through the different use cases where different authors can benefit from our different brands like Free Booksy.

Teddy Smith (01:03.333)
Brilliant. Yeah. Well, let's jump straight in then. I think what the main thing I wanted to talk about today is book promotions, especially with things like any new trends or what sort of best practices to do in 2024, like in the middle of the year 2024. So let's go through some of the best book promotions and the different types that are available when you kind of use

Mike Hourigan (01:24.043)
Yes, absolutely. So when I think about book promotions, I kind of think about them and two very high level overarching things. So you have launch promotions for a brand new launch, and then you have price promotions where, you know, what is newsworthy is that your book is either free or it's it's 99 cents or at a lower price point. And then within each of those

broad promotion types, whether it's launch or price promotion, you have different channels that you can promote it in. And so email promotions, going back to what I know very well at Ritten Word Media with Free Booksy and Bargain Booksy, we have lists of hundreds of thousands of readers that subscribe to us and look to us for discounts on eBooks. And so that is where if you're planning

make your book free or discount it to 99 cents or even if it's below 499 and that's just its price, you can do an email promotion with Free Booksy, Bargain Booksy, Red Feather Romance, any of our brands. But then there's also different channels like social media promotions, right? Your organic social media profile as an author and then also social media ads. You can also do promotions

other authors via list swaps, so email list swaps. And then also your traditional kind of PR and media placement, so getting on a podcast or, you know, sharing a press release and getting that in some local publications. So at a high level, that's kind of where we're at in 2024 with a lot of the the available book promotions.

Teddy Smith (03:13.802)
Yeah, great. And so the promotions that we're talking about now, do you think they're really for when you're trying to launch the book or is it more of an ongoing process?

Mike Hourigan (03:23.269)
So it's both. And that's one of the best things about this is we work with a lot of authors who are writing and launching their first book. And then if that's the case, there's a lot of value in running something like a free bookseed, which is, yes, you're going to give certain amounts of your book away, downloads on Kindle for free, but in return, you're going to get reviews and you're going

Hopefully then get people to join your email newsletter if you're putting, know, a link to your email newsletter in the back matter of your book. But we also work with a lot of profitable and full -time authors who utilize our services and still utilize book promotions to grow their revenue, particularly for their back lists. And if you're not familiar with what a back list is, that's just

repertoire of other books that you've written. So maybe, you know, it's a series from the past,

Teddy Smith (04:30.066)
So how does that work? So if you've got your back list of books, you'd send that to Free Booksy, for example, and then they would print the whole list of books, or is it something different?

Mike Hourigan (04:39.926)
So there's a couple ways you can do it. So let's say you have a fantasy series that has five titles. So one thing that works very well is you can make the first book free and run a free bookseed to the first book in the series and then get read through and purchases of the subsequent four books. So that's one thing authors do. And then you can also run

we offer series promos where you can actually send readers to your Amazon series page, which if you're not familiar with this, it makes it very easy for readers to buy your entire series with one click. And so you can promote that to our list as well.

Teddy Smith (05:20.038)
Yeah.

Teddy Smith (05:23.29)
Okay, so you can kind of make like bundles with within the Amazon's on the series page. Is that what you mean? With all of your right. Okay. And does that and do you find that works for nonfiction and fiction books? Or is it mostly fiction books you see that sort of tactic with?

Mike Hourigan (05:28.951)
That's correct. Yes. Yep.

Mike Hourigan (05:40.194)
So it's mostly fiction, but we do work with nonfiction authors as well. There are some kind of nuances to nonfiction versus fiction, particularly with series promos. One of our products that I would highly recommend if you're watching this and you are a nonfiction author is to look at Nuen Books, which is one of our sub -brands that helps authors

both with their marketing and PR for a new book launch and particularly for nonfiction, for biographies, memoirs, business books, finance books, that's the route we would recommend you

Teddy Smith (06:24.002)
Right, yeah, because a lot of the listeners are non -fiction writers, so how does new in books work compared to free bookseek, for example? What's the difference?

Mike Hourigan (06:34.888)
Yes, so part of it is the list that we've compiled of readers who are subscribed to Newinbooks. They are not as, they're not as discount driven. So for free books that you subscribe, you're looking for free books, right? With Newinbooks, it's more so like you are interested in what's new and you're also willing to pay for it as a reader. And

Teddy Smith (06:53.452)
Yep.

Mike Hourigan (07:02.719)
what we do for Newham Books, which is really cool and one of the best benefits of Written Word Media is we give you a dedicated book launch specialist. So you come to us and say, hey, I'm planning to launch this book in 90 days, 100 days, and we will work with you to not only schedule your email promotions, but we'll also interview you. We'll publish that on the Newham Books website, in addition to a number of other things like helping you

an editorial review that you can share. And it all makes for a very clean and smooth launch to make sure you are in fact doing what you need to be doing to make a splash for your new launch.

Teddy Smith (07:45.695)
Right, okay, that makes sense. I think what would be really helpful is we're kind of going through some of the services of risk of web media. I think what would be really good is if we could go through like kind of an ideal launch process and how the services fit in as well. like there's some people that might be doing it for DIY and they'd love to hear your experience as well on what that launch process should look like, I think.

Mike Hourigan (08:09.381)
Absolutely, so obviously the caveat here is everything is slightly different, but if I had to kind of condense this into what would kind of be an ideal book launch, you know, I would start with the pre -launch. And for new authors, sometimes this can be a bit overwhelming. Like, okay, the pre -launch, like what exactly do I need to do?

Teddy Smith (08:15.474)
Yeah.

Mike Hourigan (08:37.308)
And so with this, this is kind of teasers, right? So this is like if you've started building a social media following, or if you've even started growing an email list, you know, you have a MailChimp or a MailerLite account, and you have people that are interested in what you're gonna put out there they know something's coming, you use the pre -launch kind of in the 90 -ish days, sometimes even more leading up to the launch to do teasers.

cover reveals, pre -order announcements, anything like that to build buzz ahead of time. So I would recommend that. know, Teddy, obviously, if you have anything to add about the timeline, but, you

Teddy Smith (09:18.555)
Yeah, I was thinking that pre -launched, you notice any authors do things like get into Facebook groups or into other newsletter mailing lists to try and get that recognition for themselves as well?

Mike Hourigan (09:32.399)
Yes, none of that's gonna hurt, right? This kind of goes back to the adage, know, PR is PR, right? Like, you know, get PR around your book and then, you know, do what you can there. And again, as a first time author, you're not gonna have the biggest audience yet. Most likely not, right? So then you get into the launch week and this is where written word media really comes in.

Teddy Smith (09:39.468)
yeah i think

Mike Hourigan (09:59.55)
What we recommend is for your launch week, particularly if you're going to be doing email promotions, we recommend that you stack them. And this is called promo stacking. So one of the things that we try to get authors to shy away from, or at least be more cognizant of is not to just run one promo and stop and that's it.

particularly around the launch week, we want to make sure that, especially if you're selling on Amazon, you're getting downloads or sales over multiple days. And so what this should look like is a bell curve, right? You don't just want a flash in the pan up and down because Amazon's gonna...

Teddy Smith (10:40.943)
Yeah, like when you use those free promotion days, like you often see on those charts anywhere. like, I had like a thousand sales today and then it's like 20 or over the whole next two weeks or something. You don't want that.

Mike Hourigan (10:51.636)
You don't want that. And promo stacking is what can give you an edge to kind of show Amazon, hey, this is not just a flash in the pan where I've emailed, you know, my friends and family, I get one day of sales and that's it. So, you know, this is where we would recommend looking into doing a free booksy or a red feather, a free booksy and a red feather email promotion. And then also layering in some Facebook and Instagram ads, right?

Teddy Smith (11:15.032)
Yep.

Mike Hourigan (11:21.654)
which we offer as well at Written Word Media. We'll run your Facebook and Instagram ads for you. It's called Reader Reach Ads.

Teddy Smith (11:28.322)
Have you noticed that either of those work better or is there like a, know, just somewhat better for types of like fiction books, for example, and somewhat better for nonfiction or.

Mike Hourigan (11:36.375)
So in terms of the absolute number of results, the email promotions are going to do the best. If you're looking for, you know, hundreds and thousands of downloads, you're going to want to be looking at our email promotions. And then the Facebook and Instagram ads also do well, but those are more of a steady trickle. So we run those ads over five, 10 or 30 day increments. That's what we offer them in. And that's

again, help with that bell curve. And so, you know, that's within the first kind of five days of your launch. And then what we recommend, you know, after the first five or five days or week of your launch is to continue promoting afterwards, like continue with follow -up emails, engage with reader reviews, you know, if they're on different platforms where you can respond to them, engage with them.

and do anything you can to keep that momentum

Teddy Smith (12:36.723)
Yeah, great. when we talk about getting the reviews later on, because one of the most difficult things is getting those reviews, but kind of before your book was launched, or at least before you've gone to those big launch and you're really out there selling, what processes do you use? Do you use any of sort of services like Pubby or anything like that to try and get reviews or any of the written web media tools too?

Mike Hourigan (13:04.816)
Yes, so I would certainly recommend it. mean, this is the chicken and egg, right? This is always the hardest thing. It's like, just launched this book, but like I need reviews and ratings to be able to sell it. Like, what do I do? Right. And so this is where you can have your kind of preliminary readers, you know, leave reviews for you.

And then I would also look into other services, like you mentioned. mean, you know, give those a shot, especially if they're within your price range, see if they work for you. And then we also really recommend, particularly within the launch, that's what Free Booksy does a good job of. You you give it away for free, you're getting the scale of the downloads, and then you hope that, and it should, you know, be a percentage of those people who do leave a rating and a review.

Teddy Smith (13:46.749)
Yeah, exactly.

Teddy Smith (13:58.502)
Yeah. Is it, are you able to sort of track the performance of that using free books so you can see like who's left to review and like how many, how well the reviews, the process has gone sort of thing.

Mike Hourigan (14:10.542)
So what we recommend, so we can actually like tie it back because we don't have the correct affiliate tags to like truly be able to say like it exactly generated this download or this review. But especially if you're early on and we're talking about your first book, this is where I would say you need to be diligent about your reporting. And what I mean by that

you're only going to be doing so many marketing things, right? On any given day. And this is where I say, even if you're promo stacking, aim to do like one thing a day so that you know, okay, this free booksy email went out for me on, you know, Tuesday the second, right? And then, you know, a week later, I got five reviews, right? And I hadn't done anything else, you know, in the meantime, right?

So you can probably attribute those to that email

Teddy Smith (15:06.863)
Yeah, right. Okay. Yeah, I see what mean. So you can kind of track the by by by doing them in a particular order, then you can work out what which has been the best performance of your

Mike Hourigan (15:16.93)
Exactly. Yes, that's exactly

Teddy Smith (15:18.084)
Okay. With your your list, obviously, you must have like thousands of readers on your different lists. Have you are there particular niches that you think do better with these lists that you've noticed? Is there like some people who are like, I just love equestrian romance books or stuff like that, you know, or is it do can you get that granular?

Mike Hourigan (15:40.058)
So we could get very granular. And so when a reader signs up for a list, and this could be any of our email lists, it could be free bookseed, bargain bookseed, Newman books, Red Feather romance, they specify which genres they want to sign up for. And we try to be as, give them as many options as possible so that in turn, when an author chooses to promote with us, they can find the specific readers that they want.

to engage with and, you know, unsurprisingly, what are some of like our top genres, like romance, mystery, thriller, cozy mystery. And then once a year, we do what we call genre proliferation, which is where we survey readers, we survey authors, and we look at other trends in the indie industry and say, hey, you know, these are some up and coming genres

we've been asked for, should probably consider adding them as options for readers to sign up for and then focusing on growing those list of reader subscribers to that specific genre. So, you know, what we're seeing right now is a big push towards dark romance, mafia romance, romanticy, two, romanticy, and then,

Teddy Smith (16:56.91)
Okay.

Ha ha.

Romance C,

Mike Hourigan (17:07.081)
Also, you know, we're getting a lot of push for business and finance books too, which is something we've, it is interesting. So that's something we primarily catered to with, with Newinbooks and Bargain Booksy, but there's, there's probably going to be some sort of expansion there in the future.

Teddy Smith (17:12.78)
really? Okay. That's interesting.

Teddy Smith (17:26.24)
Yeah, okay, yeah, definitely keep us in touch that because we I have, especially with finance business, that sort of thing, self developments that those books are really popular for writers at the moment, because there's lots of sub niches within it. I do see quite a lot of the same topics coming up. yeah, but yeah.

Mike Hourigan (17:38.707)
Yes, self -help too. And self -help we cover across all of our brands. And that's been a staple of ours. So self -help is also, that's what you're writing in. Certainly check those

Teddy Smith (17:55.906)
Yeah, great. Now with the free, when you've got your books on the free promotion, what's the, so when I've got my launches, for example, I like to use all my five free Amazon days in one go. I kind of like to have this big kickoff where I go, let's all use all five days and have a big like, a big thing. Do you use them all in one go or do you recommend like saving a couple until the end of your 90 days

Mike Hourigan (18:13.439)
Yes.

Mike Hourigan (18:20.148)
I would recommend using them all in one go. So, you know, your KDP free days, you know, plan to plan to use them. And then what I would recommend is doing a five day promo stack. And at written word, this is something we launched last year that I think has been our biggest product launch in the past bit is you can actually just go and look and say, Hey, I have a book that'll be free for five days.

Teddy Smith (18:21.791)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Hourigan (18:49.754)
starting on this date, what do you recommend? And we will give you a vetted promo stack of what we would recommend you use for your five free days.

Teddy Smith (18:58.28)
Okay, right. Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah, I know some writers, they like to sort of save two of their days until later on. But I think you better also kind of get your ducks in a row and say, okay, I'm gonna speak to these Facebook groups, tell them the books going to live, I'm going to build up these newsletters, which I want to put it out to and then use it again, get it with a service like free booksy so that I can get those reviews and free books out there ready to go. So I know exactly what's going to happen. Yeah.

So when you're getting those five days, what does one of those promo stacks look like? Let's go through what those five things could be.

Mike Hourigan (19:35.836)
Yeah, there's basically what you would do is you would go to the promo stacks on the written word media website. You would put in your genre and then you will say, my book is going to be free. And then we will give you different various options. And the real cool thing about these is we don't only recommend written word media promotions. We recommend we have what we call promo partners, which historically have been competitors of ours, but now we,

we work with them. And so we're able to pull in their inventory as well as our inventory and say, Hey, you know, we recommend a free bookseed promo, but then we also recommend a Hella Books promo, right? And on top of that, we also recommend if you're doing five days to do a five day read or reach run, which is where we run your Facebook and Instagram ads for you. So it's really, it's a hybrid approach.

But what I will say is we put a lot of time and thought into what's going to perform the best for these promo stacks. And then it's also a heck of a lot easier to schedule them because you're not having to pull up different promo sites, which might or might not have inventory availability when your book's going to be free. then it's like, I really wanted this promo site and I can't get it. And now I feel

you know, I'm defeated, right? You can do it all in one place.

Teddy Smith (21:08.037)
Okay, yeah.

Great, makes sense. yeah, because I think a lot of people, especially when they're just starting out, they get a bit overwhelmed maybe with like how many things they need to be doing to get the promo done. You know, there's so many, especially of Amazon, it's like quite, it's not very intuitive like back end. So sometimes you're, people are thinking, don't really know how to use computers. So this is a bit difficult. So it's good that it's all in one place. It's all done for you. That's great.

Mike Hourigan (21:33.508)
It makes a big difference. And if there's one thing any of you new authors take away from this podcast, please let it be this. It's, know it's very overwhelming when you're getting started and you know, had this launch and you're, being told by a million different gurus, like here's what you should be doing. If you have questions and want to pick someone's brain,

and get an honest feedback on like, here's what you should probably be doing to market your book. Reach out to Ritten Word Media. Hello at writtenwordmedia .com, ask our team and we will look at your book and say, here's what we think the best thing you should be doing in terms of your marketing is, whether it's our products or not. So that's an invaluable resource. I can't say that enough. Like reach out to our team and we will.

point you in the right direction, free of charge.

Teddy Smith (22:31.215)
Yeah, sounds good. so with, there's so many services that like you offer and also stuff that you should be doing free. Say there was one thing that would like get the gears moving fastest with your promo. What's, what's the one thing you should be doing?

Mike Hourigan (22:45.599)
So let me ask you this. So you're saying it's just like right off the bat, Teddy?

Teddy Smith (22:53.23)
So yeah, if you basically if you could do just, yeah, if you're thinking just one thing that you could be doing, like that would be the best that would get the sales moving fastest or get the reviews moving fastest.

Mike Hourigan (22:54.216)
It's I want to make

Mike Hourigan (23:06.024)
I would say if you're able to get your book at a free price point and run a promo stack, that's going to be the biggest bang for your buck and move the needle the fastest. So a free book promo stack. Yes. That yes.

Teddy Smith (23:18.157)
Yeah, great. That sounds good. You're one bit of advice. When you're doing these launch, when you're doing launches, do you run ads and how do you make that work with the ads? What's your, do you have a particular type of campaign you like to run with these free book campaigns or is there, do, like, how does that usually work? Because a lot of people don't want to spend money on ads when they're giving a free book, which I totally get, but also,

got to think about these promos as launching a book and getting out there as much as possible. So I think there's kind of both sides. have any thoughts on that?

Mike Hourigan (23:51.425)
There are, and I totally understand that sentiment. Like, you know, if I'm gonna do it free, you know, it's also hard to justify spending money on an email promo or like starting to figure out Facebook and Instagram ads for myself. And what I would say there is certainly try, you know, try both if you want. Like if you wanna go out of the gate at 99 cents or $1 .99, you certainly can. And that's one of the beautiful things about

reader reach Facebook and Instagram ads is as long as your book is, as long as your book's $4 .99 or below, we'll run ads for you. So you can try that as well. And then, you know, we know all the audience targeting. So we'll save you some of that stress and some cost by figuring it out yourself by making the creative for you and utilizing what we know about reader audiences for your specific genre

you if you're able to have a profitable launch at 99 cents or a dollar 99 or 299, 499, that's wonderful. We certainly don't want to dissuade you either way. But you know, if you're able to go free, that is certainly a tried and true method for growing your audience and seeing read through of your series. If that's your plan.

Teddy Smith (25:15.25)
Yeah, think you've got to have the ads on whilst you're doing these free promotions. just really gets out there. It's another promo stack. It's one of the things that you can control and you can have control over the keywords that you want to rank for. It's really powerful.

Mike Hourigan (25:31.048)
Absolutely.

Teddy Smith (25:33.128)
So before we come to the end, there's also a lot of people I speak to, they say, my book's not really selling and they're doing these promo things and you have a look at their listings and you say, well, I can see why it's not selling. You know, haven't thought about your cover and stuff like that or you haven't done your title very well. So are there any common mistakes that you see people do that they should really avoid both with like the listings, but also with the promo side of it? Like are there any mistakes that people typically make and they could avoid?

Mike Hourigan (25:59.813)
Yes, there are. Certainly the cover image. If there's one thing I've learned in my couple years working at Ripmoor Media, readers absolutely will judge a book by its cover. That's a real thing. We have the data to prove it. So it's worth investing in a good cover. Just because you love the cover doesn't mean that readers necessarily will.

Teddy Smith (26:13.396)
Yeah.

Mike Hourigan (26:27.324)
And if you're trying to sell books, need to be receptive to that sort of feedback. The other thing is your book blurb. So the short description of your

Teddy Smith (26:35.862)
Just before the blur, with the cover, do you have any good resources that either you've had good success with or that you know people have that you use for the covers?

Mike Hourigan (26:45.156)
Yes, so I would recommend Reidse. Reidse can help connect you with great designers. They're vetted. So, you know, if I had to say one, work with Reidse to connect you with a great cover designer, that would be my recommendation.

Teddy Smith (26:48.329)
Yes.

Teddy Smith (26:59.767)
Yeah, yeah, that is good. I've had some good experience with 100 covers as well. It's quite good value. Reads it to sort of independent designers, whereas 100 covers I think is a bit more, it's not quite as good, but it's still very good quality for the money I think.

Mike Hourigan (27:17.019)
You you want good quality you want you know good bang for your buck what you don't want is just you know you don't want to go out with a poor cavity poor quality cover you know that isn't going to Help you get a return on investment on any of the marketing you're doing for your book so that's the cover and in the book blurb which from a written word media perspective when I'm saying book blurb

Teddy Smith (27:34.554)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Mike Hourigan (27:44.313)
When we send our emails, it is your title, it is the cover image, and then it is a very brief book blurb, which is a teaser for your book that readers can also see. And you really want to make sure that you're putting your best foot forward with regards to the book blurb. So it's almost a shorter description. Yeah, so it's almost a shorter description. And back to what I said earlier about our team being helpful.

Teddy Smith (28:00.092)
So this is in the description you're talking about. This is in your emails that you send out.

Mike Hourigan (28:14.361)
our team, take great pride in making sure we're, we're setting authors up for success. So if a, if a submission comes through and the cover, you know, we, we look at it it's like, we don't think this is going to get great results. We'll reach out and let the author know and say, you know, like, Hey, we'll reschedule this for you in the future. If you want to, you know, work on redesigning your cover, or we'll help you rewrite your book

free of charge too. So that's the sort of stuff that really sets the written word media team apart.

Teddy Smith (28:49.709)
Yeah, cool. so this book, this is what goes in the email that you send out, you mean. So this is like a short version of the cover that people can read to. Yeah. Okay.

Mike Hourigan (28:59.02)
Correct. Yes. Yep.

Teddy Smith (29:01.11)
makes sense. Brilliant. Well, I think, I mean, that's been really helpful. There's been loads of actionable stuff in there for people to take away. Yeah, I think the book promotion is a really big part. So try not to like, try not to overcomplicate it. And like, if you are not understanding, definitely speak to a service like Written Web Media, who can basically guide you through the whole process and really get your book cranking.

Mike Hourigan (29:07.404)
Good.

Mike Hourigan (29:23.307)
Yes, that would be my recommendation. Email us with your book and say, I'm lost. I don't know what to do, but I'm looking to start marketing and we'll point you in the right direction.

Teddy Smith (29:35.789)
Brilliant, that sounds great. So thank you talking to us, it's been really good. Just before we go, we've got one last question and that is a book that you recommend that you think everybody should be reading.

Mike Hourigan (29:47.903)
Yes. So the book that I would recommend is by Paul Jarvis. It's called Company of One. And this is applicable to really anyone starting a business, including an author business. But really what this book is, is it's practical strategies for building and maintaining a successful and profitable small scale business.

you know, this is a book that helps you, and I've seen this a lot with authors, you you think like, okay, for me to be successful, I have to be doing what, you know, E .L. James is doing with 50 Shades of Grey or something like that, right? And like, you'd need to figure out like, what's your version of success and not let some of these other things get in the way of what success means to you.

Teddy Smith (30:29.612)
Yeah.

Mike Hourigan (30:40.966)
And then also, you know, what that means for profitability too, because it's, you know, at the end of the day, being an author, and if you want to do it full time, you're going to be an entrepreneur, you're going to be a small business owner. And to continue that, you need to be profitable. So this is a, a really good book that, that I would

Teddy Smith (30:57.661)
great. the Company of One, I'll definitely put that down. It sounds a bit like some of my favourite books like the E -Myth and some other books like that all combined into one that's going to be good for authors. Yeah. Even better. Who's got time to read? Yeah.

Mike Hourigan (31:07.08)
Yes, it's great and it's a quick read.

Yeah, seriously. Yeah, stay writing.

Teddy Smith (31:18.932)
Well, brilliant, no thanks. That was really great, Mike. So thanks everyone. If everyone wants to get in touch with Written Word Media, then the best place is just WrittenWordMedia .com. And I think that was hello at WrittenWordMedia .com and you can get straight through to Mike. Is that, that's right, brilliant. Yeah, well, thank you very much, Mike. I've got the links to your website in the chat below and we'll see you, I'll see you in another call soon. Thank you very much.

Mike Hourigan (31:31.814)
Yep, that's correct. Thank

Mike Hourigan (31:42.513)
Sounds great. Thank you for having me, Teddy. Thank you all. Bye.