David Speed: You Only Fail When You Stop

Ever wondered how a street artist transitions from the unseen world of graffiti writer to a legitimate and respected career in the spotlight? Join us for episode 2 of this is Disruption, as David Speed, the prolific London based street artist and co-host of the Creative Rebels podcast, takes us on his incredible journey. 

In this episode we hear about David's introduction to graffiti, and how it has led to his multifaceted career today. David reveals what has inspired him and his distinctive vibrant art, as well as his insightful stories highlighting the importance of embracing imperfection ("published is better than perfect", I reassure myself as I write this) and the courage needed to pursue your creative passions against societal norms.

Learn about the pivotal moments and near-fatal experience that shaped his path, as well as the invaluable lessons gained from hosting the Creative Rebels podcast. 
David's mission to inspire others by sharing motivational conversations is evident as he shares practical advice about never giving up. 

We cover a lot of topics in this conversation - loss and grief, the realisation that we must live for today, planting flags, the importance of taking action, navigating the challenges and benefits social media, finding creative flow, and much more. 

I'm sure that David's passion for creativity and inspiring others to follow their dreams will inspire you as much as it inspired me. Now while you're listening to this - go and make something :)

Be sure to tune in to hear this influential and inspiring voice in the creative community.

Rua x

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello there. You are very welcome to. This is Disruption podcast, with me, your host Rua. This podcast brings you in-depth interviews with the fearless creatives in street art, graffiti, music, photography and beyond, who boldly challenge the status quo, break barriers for others and share their work unapologetically. Each episode is a deep dive into the lives of artistic risk takers, exploring their motivations, their inspirations and their reasons for their willingness to disrupt societal norms. Some of these stories involve revolutionising their industries, while others are pushing the boundaries of legality with their art. Coming up on today's episode.

Speaker 2: 0:38

I think make is the most important word that we have and it's the most important thing that we do, and everything that we do comes around because of what we made in the past. And the more we make, the more we get better at making, and the more good things that we're able to make, the more that we can change our life. Creativity is actually really fucking important. It's like a human right that everyone should do. I will be continuing to paint as much as is humanly possible, as much of the limits that I can push my body to. I will do it because I have something to say that I. Before I wasn't brave enough to say it, but now I am.

Speaker 1: 1:12

I'm thrilled to announce a guest who has profoundly impacted my own creative journey. Joining us is David Swede. David's accomplishments in the world of street art are nothing short of remarkable and his dedication to his craft continues to push the boundaries of what's possible in public art. David is also the co-host of the chart-topping podcast, creative Rebels. His podcast has become a beacon for those looking to break free from the traditional moulds that society tells us we should be in and to pursue their passions. In today's episode, we're going to delve into David's journey, his motivations behind his stunning works and the relentless passion that drives him.

Speaker 1: 1:52

Get ready to be inspired by a true pioneer and inspiration in the world of street art and an influential voice in the creative community. So sit back, relax or, even better, go and make something while you are listening to this, and let's dive into another inspiring conversation on. This Is Disruption. So overjoyed to be here today in East London with an incredible creative a creative rebel, if you will, a street artist, a podcaster, speaker, multi-business founder, former tattoo artist, which I think is really interesting and, in one word, I would say that he's a helper, because he helps to lift other people up and inspire them, and that's a little bit of my intro. But, david speed, who I'm so happy to be joined with today, can you please tell me in your own words who are you and what do you do?

Speaker 2: 2:37

oh, that's lovely, thank you. I do like the, the title of helper. That's not something that I've heard before. That's really beautiful, thank you. So, yeah, yeah, I mean, it's always difficult, isn't it, when you, when you get asked to describe yourself, and I, even though I advise creatives, have an elevator pitch ready to go, when you can just say something off the bat. But I suppose I I make work about light and I paint strangers in the street and I was bitten by the street art slash graffiti bug when I was a teenager.

Speaker 2: 3:06

Here I am in my 40s now, still painting on the streets, and I think the most important word in the world is make, and I think we're put on this planet to make. I've been refining it recently. I think we're put on this planet to make and to caretake, so those are the most important things. So to look after other people If you're a teacher or a nurse or you look after someone, I think that is noble and beautiful and I think if you don't do those things, then you need to make. And whatever you make needs to bring something to humanity.

Speaker 2: 3:38

And I think growing up in the 80s and 90s, where the kind of if you wanted to portray a loser in a film, then they're the artist or the poet or the singer and really growing up with that narrative of like you can't be successful, being a creative making stuff is stupid. Just so you fit into the system and we all go to school and it's like a factory and we're bred into these factory workers and we go out and get a 9 to 5 and sit in a cubicle. I think there's more to life than that and I was always made to believe that I couldn't make, that anything that I made would not have value. So I guess vision or my duty that I feel that I have in life is to enable people to realise it's not silly, it's not frivolous. Making something is really beautiful.

Speaker 1: 4:25

So everyone needs to make what they can. That is such a beautiful answer. Usually people say yeah, I'm a singer, but that was incredible. What a response Sorry.

Speaker 2: 4:31

I ramble too much.

Speaker 1: 4:32

No, it's not a ramble. It's speaking from heart, and this is what this is all about. These conversations are about people really sharing what they really believe, so I really appreciate that really thoughtful answer. Thank you for sharing that. You mentioned being told when you were younger that you were led to believe you couldn't make a living from making. So let's bring it all the way back. Can you tell me about the first bit of art you remember creating or loving?

Speaker 2: 4:54

Good question. I mean, I remember growing up probably it was cartoons like really gripped me, and I think now that I make work with neon pink paint, if I look back on the the stuff that I loved in the 80s and 90s. If you wanted to make a kid fall in love with something, you just batter their retinas with the brightest colours that you can. I think that's why it's crept into my work now. But I was obsessed with like Ninja Turtles and He-Man and Thundercats and I would draw my own versions of them all the time. But I was never told that I was particularly good at art. I got a C for GCSE art, so really just like middle of the pack regular. I wasn't ever told that I was gifted or talented. What I would love to have been told at seven, eight, nine years old when I was sort of showing an interest in art but sucked, because everyone sucks at everything that they do for the first time, if I've been told, if you find a thing that you love a bunch and you do it loads, you get really good at it. But it took me till I was in my 20s until that finally started to seep into my skull, because I started painting graffiti when I was 18, and just through repeatedly going out and having these fun experiences with my mates which was the focus I wasn't trying to become a better artist by accident I started to do stuff that was a little bit better incrementally and then started to realize hang on, I'm practicing this and I'm getting better at it. And it seems like the most obvious thing if it wasn't obvious to me when I was a kid, then I know it's not obvious to other people so it's worth saying is that like, yeah, find something you love. You will suck at it for a long time, but the the more you do it, the better you can get at it.

Speaker 2: 6:25

But those early stages I think I was always interested in bright colours. I remember the first art lesson that I had, where so I got a C for GCSE art and nothing to me sticks out, except for one lesson that we did on a technique called chiaroscuro, which is the extreme difference between light and dark. My favourite artist, caravaggio he uses chiaroscuro and my work. I would never want to compare myself to Caravaggio, the greatest artist of all time in my opinion Like I'm not even a blip on that radar. But if you look at my work now that I've said that you can see the Caravaggio in it. It's like it's portraits. It's high contrast, light and dark, and whilst he was doing really realistic depictions, mine are mine are still realistic, but using neon pink because it's the brightest pigment that I could find and there's that that real contrast in it.

Speaker 2: 7:18

So, as a kid, being interested in chiaroscuro being the only art lesson that really stuck with me that I remembered it's wild to me to I've been making the neon work for four years now and it's wild to me to think that I only just occurred to me. I only just had that memory of hang on in school. I used to like that and I really think that's something to. If anyone's like in their 30s or 40s or 50s and they've, they feel like they've missed the boat and they don't know what their passion is. It's like look back, the clues are all there in your childhood. I really think that, like if you look back on the things that you found fun when you were a kid, the chances are you'll probably still enjoy them now or like a version of them.

Speaker 1: 7:58

I 100% agree with you and the reason I asked that question. I've been asking lot of artists what is the first bit of art you remember making or you've made and you loved and you were really proud of, whatever age you were, what's the first thing you did? And every single answer to date someone needs to do a study on this has been something they created and they were really proud of, and that is now their style.

Speaker 2: 8:19

Yeah, informs, informs what they do now.

Speaker 1: 8:21

Definitely. When somebody says, oh, how can I be creative? I always just say what did you really enjoy doing when you were younger? Yeah, because that you did that for free, for joy, and you loved it and it made you happy. That's what you need. To go back to start there and then just develop it it's the most important thing.

Speaker 2: 8:36

I think that when people watch my videos on social media, like it's a clip that lasts 10 seconds at max because the algorithms are what they are and I used to put up like one one minute videos and realize that no one what? No one was prepared to watch for that long. So people will see my stuff for 10 seconds, give it a like and then move on and it's like if that was what was driving me, was like social media engagement or how many likes I got or how many people watched my 10 second video. There'd be no way to sustain that. You have to be in love with the process, because one of those paintings that you see in 10 seconds takes me six hours and there has to be more put like to spend six hours, especially, like you know, with street art, like if you're cold or it's dangerous or you're a risk of getting caught or you're panicking or whatever the things are. I mean, that's the energy of street art that I love is there's someone shouting at you over here, there's a dog attacking you, the conversations you get into it's just another world out there. But if you were only doing that for getting some likes on social media or whatever. You have to be in love with the process, otherwise you just can't sustain it. You have to derive your joy from that time that you spend with yourself making the creation.

Speaker 2: 9:49

I think it's like this cyclical thing. 50 of the equation is is what's in it for you? And that is like it's a place that you go to. You get into flow, state you. You are meditating in a way and you're and you're just creating this.

Speaker 2: 10:02

This work that is, I was going to say, is flowing out of you. But there are days where it doesn't flow out of you. You know, it's like there are days where it's difficult to show up, but you have to show up anyway. But you're making this work and there's everything is about the process and that's what you take from it. And then, once you've made it, you put it out into the world and you say here, made this, and then other people can take what they want to take from it. And that's the beautiful cycle of it is that you make it for yourself to go through the process and enjoy everything that that comes into that, and then you present it out to the world and then other people can then take it and enjoy it in their way to take something that you've created yourself for yourself, and so many people are artists.

Speaker 1: 10:43

They're artists at home and they put in a sketchbook and they put it in a drawer. It's a really brave step to step onto the streets and put something out there. I would love to hear more about your journey from graffiti when you were a teenager to street artists now.

Speaker 2: 10:56

Yeah, so I think it's important to know, if you do just sketch it and you put it in a drawer and no one ever sees it like that's fine too. You know, like that's really important. I think if you want to do something, if you want to sketch in a sketchbook and that to be your career, then you've got to show it to people. You simply have to show it to people, but it doesn't have to be your career, and not everything has to be monetized. And creativity for mental health, I think is going to be the next wave of like meditation, or I think there's going to be apps on your phone. I think there's going to be like kits that you can buy that are getting you, because you already know this that when you get into flow state, it is like one of the most beautiful things that can happen to your body. And I think that people, like rick rubin's book, are really starting to open minds more collectively, like we already knew that, but like in a more mainstream sense, people are starting to cotton on to the fact that creativity is actually really fucking important. It's like a human right that everyone should do and, because we have capitalism, if we want to do it for a living. We've got to monetize it. I wish we lived in a society where I'll paint you a painting and you'll give me some food and we can all just chill, but like, that's not the system we've got, so we've got to work in the confines of what we have. So because I do my work as a career, I also do have other creative things that I do outside of painting that no one ever sees. Do you know what I mean? Because they're just for me and my mental health. Um, so I think that's really important.

Speaker 2: 12:17

But the first time that I ever did graffiti is interesting. So I always was drawn to it, but never it was like a closed club. Back when I started early 2000s it was a closed club that you could only really get in if you knew someone who already painted and I didn't. And so I met this kid on a field trip to Amsterdam with college and my tutor said I'm gonna bunk you with Paul and I like don't put me with him because he looks like a dickhead. And my teacher was like, no, you'll really like him, he does graffiti. So my ears pricked up. I was straight away. I was like, oh my God, he does graffiti. That's really interesting. So me and Paul are still one of my best friends to this day. We just, yeah, we just got on and he looked in my like you should, you should, paint these on walls. So I was 18 when I first picked up a spray can. Paul and I went to, we bought spray cans at Henk's in Amsterdam, which at the time was like this tiny little market stall. He's now got like a full, full paint shop. That was my first can of spray paint and I had no idea what I was doing, so it was just kind of getting used to the used to the can. I went to Flavo Park in Amsterdam and we uh yeah, we played with these spray cans and I did something absolutely dreadful.

Speaker 2: 13:26

Then, gradually, throughout London, the legal areas where you were allowed to paint work were sort of gradually closed down. So Paul and I used to bunk the train to Brighton Early 2000s. Man, there were no ticket barriers you could literally. So we'd avoid the ticket guard by going and hiding in the toilet together to skinny little 18 year old boys huddled up in the toilet together. So we'd avoid the ticket guard by going and hiding in the toilet together two skinny little 18 year old boys huddled up in the toilet together so we'd avoid the ticket guard and then we'd get to the other end, just walk straight out at Brighton station it's unbelievable looking back on that now that they didn't have ticket barriers, but that's the early 2000s for you. And then we'd walk to this place called Tarnaland and that was where I mean, there was people like Rat and Gary and Arrow all painting in there, and Petro and Siege and all of these like incredible artists making this work. That just sort of blew your mind. It was the first real sort of hall of fame that I'd been into and just seeing all of these like incredible artists and then we would paint and my thing would be rubbish and I'd look at these other things and think, well, maybe one day I'll get to that stage. But it was a yeah, it was a long journey, but the first time I like properly did something and I still have a photo of it was at Tynaland.

Speaker 2: 14:31

And when I talk to kids it's the first thing that I show them. Because if I show them my work now, there's like this disconnect. They look at it and they go well, that could never be me, because it's a fully photorealistic portrait, but if I show them my first ever piece of graffiti, if they're seven, eight or nine, they will look at it and go well, I could do that now, because literally it was that level I was 18, but it was the level of a seven, eight year, nine year old, because I'd never hadn't really practiced drawing up up until that stage. I've got a few sketchbooks, but that was it. And so I show them that because they go well, if I can do that now, they can see the journey, then I can go.

Speaker 2: 15:06

This is how I started, this is where I'm at now, and this middle stage is just you practicing and iterating and making mistakes and learning and finding your style and all of the things that go into the journey of a creative. And so, yeah, my first ever piece. I cringe when it comes up on a slideshow when I'm giving a talk and I try and get through it as quickly as possible, but it's part of my history and without that first step I don't, I'm not here today. So it's it's a really important step, even though, objectively speaking, looking at it is a very bad piece of art.

Speaker 1: 15:38

I bet it's so inspiring for kids to see that. Though, when I walk down Brick Lane and I see these incredible artists and I see Mr Sens, for example, who I absolutely adore I love his work when I look at that, I'm not thinking someday I could do that. But, if I saw his very first painting then I might have that inspiration. So that's probably super inspiring to those kids.

Speaker 2: 15:56

It's so interesting and I mean you mentioned it with Sens it's like he carries, like I mentioned with the Churrosguiro for my work. He carries with him years of painting graffiti, like traditionally painting letters. You can see that in all of his pieces there's, there's flourishes that would be within a letter piece, within his portraits. You don't just all of a sudden I mean you can do. Some people will just look at something that's popular and go. That's my style now. But the true way to have a style is to just keep making and find things that interest you and eventually like, if you try a million different things, it all informs your work. It's like you said about things that when you're a kid will come through. Like the more that you make work, the more that everything that you've been through starts to come through in your work I love that.

Speaker 1: 16:38

Just go for it and you'll develop. And you don't need to have it all figured out now, because your style will develop from whatever it is. Just go, just try, just give it a shot. You never know what will happen. And that's from something that you've already mentioned there is, from being willing to not be perfect for a while. That's the hardest thing for creatives to not have perfectionism. I think everybody who's making something, they want it to be what's in their mind and they want to put it out there and have it perfect. It's the hardest thing to overcome and it's so difficult to put yourself out there over and over again and get incrementally better.

Speaker 2: 17:10

That's what it takes, unfortunately it is, but a sort of a comforting fact of that is that no one really cares. No one really cares. It's like you'll look at something, go, oh, this is dreadful, but people will just walk by it and it really doesn't matter. I think I always think of the stand up comedian as like the most, as the most perfect sort of analogy of what we all do, because when you start stand up, like when you start any creative thing you suck in the beginning, but you suck so publicly, like you're standing on a stage in front of people and you have to bomb, and that's part of the process. It's an essential part of the process is to stand in front of a of an audience of people trying to make them laugh and no one laughs, or they. They maybe boo you off stage. That is like that's what we all go through, but luckily most people aren't gonna boo us off stage. It's like I suppose street art is maybe the closest thing to it is because someone can tag over your work or scribble over your stuff, like that's. That would be the equivalent of getting booed off stage, I guess. But it's. It's the journey that everyone goes through and I think the reason that most people quit is because they don't stick out that stage where they suck at something.

Speaker 2: 18:17

The key to success in anything is to just keep going. I remember we interviewed um tory when we were in new york and he's an incredible interviewer. He's interviewed like biggie pack. Um jay-z nas rack him like like any hip-hop legend you can think of. He's interviewed them and the one thing he said that was just like it's so simple. He was like you only fail when you stop. So you could start a business, make a million, lose a million and then, if you stop, you failed. But then if you carry on and the business comes back and you make another million, then that's a successful business. Do you know what I mean? Even though you lost everything, whereas if you stop at the point where you lose everything, then you're done.

Speaker 1: 18:54

I absolutely love that. There is a lot of bravery in being bad before you're good, and perfectionism and all of the things that come with it. How do you know when a piece is finished? When do you feel ready to walk away?

Speaker 2: 19:05

I live by the motto of published is better than perfect. I've asked this to creatives before and a good answer that I got and I think it was maybe from Alex May Hughes was most of her work is commission-based and it's like well, the customer wants it, you know. So it's finished. Because it has to be finished, because I've got a deadline on it. I mean, I was painting in the street the other day and this lady saw me, was a fan of my work. She was on the bus and she went past. She got off the bus and came and had a chat with me, lovely lady, and she was like so all the walls you paint you've got permission for? And I was like no. And she said, oh well, let me, let me, let you get on then, because you need to be quick. And I was like you know what? I've been here for like over an hour, I'm sure, like if anything was going to happen it would have happened by now. No-transcript. Proceeded to talk to her for probably another 15 minutes. Then I just finished and the police rolled up and I got all of my details taken and it was a very stressful situation. I was just like oh, if I just listened to that lady and just got yeah, you're right, I should crack on.

Speaker 2: 20:05

So it's like when I'm in the street, a lot of times I will set myself an arbitrary sort of figure of like two hours or three hours, just because I know it's kind of it's got to be done. And a lot of times it's like if you gave me any piece of work that I've made in the last year, I would and I mean obviously before the last year, but in the last year I could pull it to pieces, I could tell you what's wrong with it, I could spend another hour on each piece and I would see it, but you probably wouldn't. Um, that's sort of a marker as well as like this is I'm proud of this. This represents me well enough. I know that I could do more, but I can't afford to be in this spot for too long, or or I'm physically very tired if I've been painting like six hours on a mural or something. So when is a piece of work finished? Is it ever finished? Because you can go the other way of like I wish I'd left it alone. I added too much.

Speaker 2: 20:53

So there is a balance and I think you just gradually over time, get to know your dynamic of what you're, what you're satisfied with, whilst simultaneously never being satisfied with anything you make. It's a weird like paradox. I think one of the great things about being a creative is that you're never done. It's like if you, if you write the perfect song or paint the perfect painting, where do you go from there? It's like in 2020, I painted 97 pieces. I think I was very prolific. I was doing as much as I could and I know that at the end of that year, I was a better painter, but there was no one piece that I could look at and go. That's the one where things changed. It's this gradual accumulation of skills.

Speaker 2: 21:32

I suppose there's a responsibility as well to the person I'm painting. I want to represent them as well as I can, because I know that they're going to see themselves in the street and if it doesn't look like them or like I've got it wrong, that would make me really sad, because I want them to experience joy of like. The whole reason that I paint strangers is because I think that we don't see other people enough. I know that for my career. If I painted celebrities, it's very easily recognisable. So, in terms of social media, numbers and stuff I do so much better.

Speaker 2: 22:00

I'm fully aware of that, but it's not the work that I want to make. I don't want to celebrate people who are already very celebrated. I want to shine the light on normal people who aren't famous, and I want us to see all kinds of people old people, young people, black people, white people, all races, genders, religions, everything because I think that's important and I think that it's something that we don't do enough, especially in London. It's eyes down keep walking. We don't notice each other, and so the work that I make is about noticing each other. But with that comes a responsibility. Even though no one would know other than the person that it is and their friends and family, it's really important to me that it looks good to them. So that's another marker for me, as, like, if I'm painting them, I want it to be as close a representation of them as possible, because I want to do them justice, I want them to be proud of it. I want them to stand in front of it and like, send me the selfie because I just I love that part of that project.

Speaker 2: 22:52

But then sometimes I can be working on canvases, and with a canvas I don't have the pressure of it being outside, or I'm cold, or it's in the street, or I've got to be quick. So I have the luxury of more time, but there still has to become a point, otherwise you drive yourself insane of going. Published is better than perfect. I know I could spend another week on this, but I need to just get it out there and move on to my next idea, because the more that I make, the better artist I will become, and that's the journey that I'm on. That's a very long answer to your question, sorry.

Speaker 1: 23:20

No, it was a great answer because you really talked about making the person who's viewing it happy. And that's kind of what it is. At the end of the day, whoever you're doing it for, whether that's yourself or if it's for somebody else, it's going to benefit from it yeah it's knowing that somebody will get joy from whatever it is. Even if there's little imperfections anything that any artist has ever made they will see the imperfections in it.

Speaker 2: 23:41

Sure I'll walk by and I won't notice that yeah, that's what drives me, I think, is that I want to be the most complete artist that I can be, knowing that I'll never actually get to where I want to be.

Speaker 1: 23:52

So you moved from painting graffiti when you were younger into starting a company called Graffiti Life, where you obviously saw a very real gap in the market, where you thought this could be a business. What was it that made you realise that that could be something that could be a job?

Speaker 2: 24:08

Mostly because we were painting graffiti and reading all of these articles and media things that were saying vandalism and all of these negative words and connotations around graffiti. But it didn't marry up with what we were actually experiencing, which was people going past and going this is really beautiful, you're brightening up the area, etc. Etc. So I I was like, although mainstream media is telling me this is a really bad thing, but the real-time feedback from actual people is saying that this is a good thing. So I think there's something here. And the other thing was just sort of I, a lot of my friends and peers were being sent to prison for doing it.

Speaker 2: 24:45

I had a scary moment where I was painting along the air, basically a bridge that goes over the a23 on the way to gatwick airport a friend of mine and I paul, actually, who I spoke about earlier we were painting um underneath the bridge but there's like a 60 foot drop um below you and I. When you're painting, you often step back to look at your piece and just out of instincts, I just went to step back and paul grabbed me and saved my life, and that was the first sort of wake-up call of like I'm putting myself in increasingly more dangerous situations. My friends are going to prison for this. Is this still as worth it as I used to think it was? So we sort of set about doing something that would provide a career for artists and creatives that we knew who didn't have including ourselves, that didn't have any sort of means of turning what we did into a career, and so, yeah, so for 10 years, um, I ran a company now called joy collective still still running 14 years later and just sort of started doing like commercial projects, so painting people's offices.

Speaker 2: 25:47

I did a lot of billboards and things like that and I always like, enjoyed the work, but it was never my artwork and it was the interview with Kellyanne that really, really made me think like I do want to put my own stuff out there, and I think that was the first time where the seeds were planted in my head of like, maybe I could do something solo, and so I love that Joy Collective still exists and is still providing opportunities for some of the greatest artists and I sort of still I share a studio space with them, so I still pop my head in all the time, but, like, my next phase of my career was putting my own work out there, finally, at the age of 38 years old, having the confidence to actually put my own name behind something, and that was when I started painting my neon stuff.

Speaker 1: 26:31

You touched on something really interesting there, and that's about the risks that come with putting art on the streets or doing graffiti, whether you consider it beautiful artworks or vandalism, it's a hotly debated topic.

Speaker 2: 26:42

I'd be both.

Speaker 1: 26:43

Yeah, I think so too. I think it can be both. You talked about the risks that come with it and I was at a gallery opening that my friend was. It was her show. I was at this gallery opening and I just got chatting to somebody who happened to be a journalist and she had found out that I'd done street art and kind of put it on me but why do you do it? And I didn't really know how to answer.

Speaker 1: 27:05

It was it was quite a hard thing to answer like why do we take risks that could potentially send us to jail? So I would love to hear your take. What's your answer?

Speaker 2: 27:13

when I interviewed seth godin, he spoke about he's friends with, uh, shepherd fairy and he said that shepherd has been arrested. I don't know the exact number. I think it's something like 20 times it was 30.

Speaker 1: 27:23

I listened to it on the way here coincidence that's mad.

Speaker 2: 27:26

Yeah, um, so yeah, he said that shepherd had been arrested 30 times and I mean I believe in the work that I'm making enough, because so, although a lot of work that I do I don't have permission for, I'm never trying to be hurtful with the work.

Speaker 2: 27:43

It's interesting, it's like I'm on this is totally nuts but on on Friday I'm getting flown to Paris for a half an hour appointment with Nobu, the chef, and to take photos of his hands to turn into a portrait. The only reason that that's happened is because I'm a naughty boy and I've painted the streets of Shoreditch. Do you know what I mean? It's like that doesn't happen unless I take that risk and do that. So one side you've got like this is silly and it's frivolous and it shouldn't be done, but also like it's also very real and really I don't see a way to get to where I'm at without taking the risks that I take by painting street art. If I was just doing canvases, I don't think I get on enough radars to to for opportunities like that so having your company to doing street art for other people, to doing art for yourself.

Speaker 1: 28:28

I have listened to so many creative rebels episodes. I still have loads left, but I really have, and every single episode I learn something new without fail. When yourself and Adam decided to start a podcast called Creative Rebels, what was it that made you realise there was something for you there, and how did you go about starting?

Speaker 2: 28:47

Yeah, so the podcast has definitely changed my life. I think when I started doing my solo stuff in 2019 I don't in 2020 in the pandemic, I don't think it would have been successful had I not had three years of podcasting up until that point, because every week I was just getting to interview an incredible person or just chat to Adam, the the all of the things it takes to be a success. So then, starting my own solo career, I was like well, I've just had this like crash course of three years where I've been talking to literally the best, like the best creatives on the planet. Just take what you've synthesized through all of those years of talking to them and just do it, put it into action. It's like quite simple. So so it definitely helped launch my career. I've spoken to some incredible people, but when when we started it, it was, it was just let's put something out that is that helps people. That we didn't have when we first started the business.

Speaker 2: 29:41

Because when we first started, this was 2010. There weren't really like loads of business podcasts. I mean, podcasting wasn't even a big thing in 2010. And there were a few business books. But like, really, we just learn on the, the job, we just learn by, by trying and failing. I mean, literally day one of our business is us. We're like, okay, we're going to do this business. Like how do we get customers? So we took an easel into the street and printed off some business cards and we're literally just standing there, drawing on a drawing on a canvas, handing out business cards to people and from that we get one job, and then from that one job we take that job round to all of the other places in town and then we get another job and it was just like a snowball effect, like that. And if we'd had something like creative rebels when we first started, there would be so many, because all me and adam do is just talk about all of the things that we did that worked and all the things we did that didn't work. So it just gives you this crash course of if you want to make something a success, you could do the things that we've tried that worked.

Speaker 2: 30:36

And then when you bring on loads of guests, you start to realise that there's just universal truths. It's really funny. I remember interviewing a lady who makes doughnuts and you would think that the street artist and the doughnut maker have zero in common. But actually speaking, I'm just like this is exactly my story. You just swap donuts for spray cans and it's like the same thing. And so many stories that creatives have been through are so universal, and so the idea was a young black girl in this episode and they get something from that, and then you can just take all of the pieces that work for you and you can just put it together in this puzzle of like, because everyone's creative journey is going to be unique, but there's the universal truths that you can just steal from other people, and all of the techniques and everything that other people have used to bring their success. So it's like so the idea was just. That was just let's bring together people who've done some amazing shit and let's ask them how they did it. Basically, incredible.

Speaker 1: 31:41

So one of my favorite episodes I listened to I never expected it, it was with dilly carter, who has declutter dollies, and I had no idea that this was a service. I had no idea of what she did and I listened, listened. That was months ago and I have been saying to my boyfriend ever since I need that service. I need that lady to come to my house and start my life. I have more Posca's than any human could possibly ever use. I have far more paintbrushes than any human can use in one lifetime. I have way too many shoes. I need somebody stronger than I am to come through.

Speaker 1: 32:13

But that was a service I didn't even know existed. But it was such an unusual guest to have on a creativity podcast. But it is a very creative thing that she does Super creative and her social media and her branding and starting a business. There's so much creativity in it and I am obsessed with the service that I will someday get from her. I can't wait in advance. This was a really unexpected character that I had no idea about, didn't know anything about it and then, because you interviewed her, she 100% has a new audience member. So really unexpected guests. How do you decide who should be on the podcast.

Speaker 2: 32:46

We make a show with very much us in our 20s in mind of like we're struggling around and we have no, we can't see the wood for the trees. In mind, of like we're struggling around and we have no, we can't see the wood for the trees. We have no idea what we're doing. So we need anyone that we bring on. We need it to be useful. So we're only going to focus on the things that people can take something away from. Like you can have a podcast where people just get together and have interesting chats. That's absolutely fine, but that's not what our show is about. Our show is about like here's some people that made some stuff that will help you go and make some stuff. So if the guest has made something really cool or just they have interesting insights into because I think, like it's like I learned someone something from a donut maker and I'm never gonna make donuts, never but she was still useful. So I think it's like humans learn from stories. So our goal was to just let's find interesting stories from as many different people as we can Someone who goes into someone's house and declutters it for them. I mean it goes to show that we were right, because Dilly's career. This was before Marie Kondo, I believe, before she became a really big thing.

Speaker 2: 33:51

We had Dilly on and Dilly has now gone on to. She's got a show I think it's called Sort your Life Out. Actually I don't know. My girlfriend watches it over and over. She loves it. But like she's gone on to have this incredible career, so like what we saw, like we were right. Yeah, I think I think getting her as a guest it was like this person goes into people's houses and tells them what they need to keep and what they need to throw away. There's an interesting story there, surely. Like that's an interesting person to talk to, even if the chat is just about like how have you built this as a business? What are the random things that people have in their house? What can someone listening to this do? What can they throw away that is going to make their career better because it's cluttering up their head and like there's loads of stuff there.

Speaker 1: 34:39

So the kind of bar that we're looking for is is are they going to bring value? So the fact that you get to speak to such a diverse range of people from all sorts of backgrounds and all sorts of creativities I know that it would be impossible for you to choose a favorite guest and I would never ask that of you, do not worry. But if there was one episode that you think people must listen to, this is their life-saving episode. Can you tell me what that would be?

Speaker 2: 34:58

We did a little mini series called how to Start Any Project. That's good. I think there's six episodes in a row that are just. They're just. I mean, we didn't write. Maybe we should have written it, but we literally just sat down and just went right. What would we do if we were starting something from scratch now? We just kind of laid out everything that we would do. I think that I think that's really strong.

Speaker 2: 35:16

But I think asking for what's the one episode is like there's no. There's no cheap hack. You know. It's like there's no one episode that's going to change your life. I think making the decision to consume content that's going to benefit you if you've got goals in mind, the content you consume is like that's going to benefit you. If you've got goals in mind, the content you consume is like that's you become it, you know. Yeah, so one single episode is not going to. There's no episode that I could recommend. That episode is going to be different from every single person, and what I found recently as well is I will look through a book that I've read five years ago and I'll highlight passages than I did five years ago, because I'm at a different stage in my life. So everyone who listens to the show is going to be at a different rung of the ladder of their creative career, and so they're going to take something different from every single episode. So, whilst I'd love to give you like one magic episode that is going to change people's lives, it find the content that inspires you, that that you regularly listen to, that because it because it makes you a better creator, because I think it's very easy to get.

Speaker 2: 36:23

I I remember this happened years ago. I remember finding a motivational video on youtube and it had like the passionate music in the background and it was like designed to to like to pump you up and just go like at the end of it you're just like I can do fucking anything. And it had like 18 million views and I got kind of worried. I was like, if this content is people are really starting to realize, then like competition is going to be so much hard because everyone's realizing that what they're saying in this video is like you've got to work really hard. And then, as I started like working really hard and like really sort of embodying that, I started to realize that most 18 million people that watch that video, most of them will just watch the video and then not actually go and put the action in. And so you need to. You need to be inspired by the stuff that's going to get your heart rate going and then you actually put it into action.

Speaker 2: 37:17

Because there's a lot of people will say to us is I mean, it's lovely? But so many people say to us, like your podcast changed my life? Then our response to that is always like no, you changed your life, we were the catalyst to get you there. But you put the work in. All we did was tell you what we did, we showed you what other people did, we gave you our advice and you then took the bits that applied to you and you put it into action. And it's that putting into action that I think holds so many people back. It feels nice to to plan everything out and to buy all of the kit and start calling yourself a photographer or a poet or a singer or whatever is the thing that you want to do, but then not actually going and doing it. Starting is the most important thing, because you'll learn more from starting than you will listening to a podcast. You will, because if the podcast can get you off your ass and actually into starting. It's starting. That's where all the real lessons are.

Speaker 1: 38:10

I should have asked you who is your favourite. No, that was amazing. I'm only joking. That was a great answer and that means that anybody who's listening to this has work to do. Yeah. They have to go.

Speaker 2: 38:19

Yeah, I mean if you can. I mean I would say don't listen to the podcast if you've already got in you the self-discipline to just fucking go and start. But I think a lot of people need permission to actually start. You've got to find what works for you. That's what I say to everyone. Find what works for you. If there's a podcast that gets you up off of your ass and making, then you need to consume that until it doesn't anymore and then stop listening to it. Take as much as you can from it and go and put it out into the world. We're trying to be that voice that says yes, you can.

Speaker 2: 38:53

I think back in the early episodes, I think our intro used to say everyone's going to tell you that you can't do it. We're here to tell you that you definitely can. And that's still true. Everyone will give you resistance, from your parents to your best friends. People that care about you will even say are you sure this is a good idea? Because it's risky to go and have a creative career.

Speaker 2: 39:08

But the whole thing is like if you don't try it, like I live a remarkable life. Like I live the, the life that I always wanted to have, I now have and you sort of then want to tell everyone about it. For me it was. It was like working a nine-to-five. It was like I couldn't. I couldn't get my head around it. And if you find a job that you love, like great, but like for me, I knew that that was not a world that I was going to do well in.

Speaker 2: 39:32

And then and then I was training to be a teacher and I was teaching these beautiful kids and I loved them, but I realised how handcuffed I was in that system to actually help them. I help more people with the podcast than I ever could have done as a primary school teacher. I'm really convinced of that. And so, yeah, I just want people to go after it and just see what happens, because so many people I've like regret is the worst thing and I don't want people to get uh later in life and just go. I wish I'd given that a go and we get emails from people that are like I, I listened to your podcast and I started xyz business and I'm like it's amazing, it's never too late, but if you are doing it when 60, you always have that wonder of like why if I'd started when I was 20?

Speaker 1: 40:13

So I think the lesson there is start today if you have an idea. Like you said, there's so much valuable content because you're speaking to these really incredible people.

Speaker 2: 40:22

I mean, I think whenever I get approached in the street or anything and someone says I listen to your podcast, I've got this like stock answer which is, oh, that's the work I'm proudest of, and it's it's true. I think, like I love, I love that my street art has brought a lot of joy to a lot of people, but the podcast has actually like changed lives.

Speaker 1: 40:41

Um, and that's yeah, that's something I'm really proud of I have a question for you, and it was that you'd previously said on the podcast that the podcast has changed you as a human. In what way has it changed?

Speaker 2: 40:52

you.

Speaker 2: 40:52

We had chase jarvis on the show and he he said that you can design your life and I really liked that, that concept of designing your life, and I think that I've started to do that over the years and through having the podcast it's.

Speaker 2: 41:06

It's made me clearer on what I'm designing, because I've looked at the different creatives who now, if I'm very brave, I could say, are peers and I and I'm sort of like what parts of their career do I really love and how can I simulate that into my career? And I just think, through showing up every week and having a conversation with someone that you really admire, that can't help but change you. I get so excited when someone is excited about what they're doing, like I would much rather chat to a creative who's like really amped up about I've got this new thing, I'm going to be doing this, that, this, that and that, like that. Those are the conversations that I that I love having. When you have a conversation with someone like that, you're thinking about it for the rest of the week and then those thoughts become actions and then your actions become habits and then your habits become your life and then that's how it's changed that's amazing.

Speaker 1: 41:57

You're speaking to people who are so inspirational and have so much to offer, and there's been some quotes that have come out of the show that I really love, and you still say them now all the time. One of them is everything is figureoutable I say this constantly. And by marie forleo. Yeah, they pronounce that right. And by marie forleo. Yeah, they pronounce that right. Um, by marie forleo. But what is your own favorite quote?

Speaker 2: 42:16

yeah, um, I got asked recently in an interview who was my like childhood heroes growing up and I was thinking about, I was thinking like I never, I never had like jordan on the wall or anything like that, um, and so so I was thinking about like posters I had, and then I remembered that I had this one little scrap of paper on my wall that I still have now, where I'd just written talk minus action equals zero, and I think that is the perfect like. I think of that a lot. Talk minus action equals zero, because so many people talk but don't actually do the thing, and so the action is really important. Getting out there and painting, like going and doing the things that I care about, like really that's definitely something that drives me. So I do like that one. I also like there's a quote by Arthur Ashe which is and I'll probably butcher this, but it's something along the lines of start where you are, use what you have, do what you can, because I just think that it's something I'm always really aware of, especially doing the podcast is that I go around in circles in my own head of I'm trying to give this advice and you want it to be taken by as many people as possible. But then I always think of like well, what about the, the single mum who's listening to this and she really wants to do it, but she's got to go and pick her kids up and then? And then I get in my own head of like well, maybe you shouldn't say the advice because not everyone can take it and and that quote just nullifies all of that Start where you are. So you can only start where you are. You know, and it's like I know there's people who feel bad about like, whatever privilege they have or whatever connections they have, and it's like no start where you are If you've got connections like if I had when we first started our business connections, I would have used them, but we just didn't, so we just had to do everything. But if you already know someone who can kickstart that and give you an opportunity, use it. Start where you are. Most people will be starting at the bottom rung and not have any connections, but it's possible and that's why we try and get all sorts of creators on the show. They started where they were, which was where you are now, or lower, and then they still managed to get to great heights. So that's hopefully that's inspiring for people.

Speaker 2: 44:24

So I think, as a quote that gets me around all of the the mental gymnastics that I do in my head, and there's, there's also uh, I think it's scott adams has something which I think he used to use on Twitter. I stole this from Tim Ferriss's book I think it's, tools of Titans, which is Boccato, but of course there are obvious exceptions. So he would start every tweet with that, because he was sick of every time he said something, someone in the comments going yeah, but that doesn't apply to me because of X, y and Z. And it's like someone was telling me recently about how they put up a cooking video and let's just say it was pancakes, and someone said but what if you don't like pancakes? Well then, don't watch this video. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2: 45:03

There's always someone I shouldn't let it affect me, but I always have in the back of my head, like, is this universal advice? And so I'm always trying to be and what would be the word like? I'm always trying to be like empathetic of that, but you can't also let that strangle you. So that quote is really helpful in like no, just do, do what you can with what you've got and just fucking try your best and you'll be fine. Just keep going, don't quit perfect.

Speaker 1: 45:24

That's amazing. It's the first one you said. There's a quote that I really love that says a goal without a plan is simply a wish yeah like, if you you're like, I want to do such and such, but if you don't have a plan to get there, you're just wishing for it and if you're wishing for something, you're not taking action to get it yeah, so it's kind of remind me a little bit of that, but I love those yeah, like work, work backwards, plan out your goal and work backwards of of how you actually get there.

Speaker 2: 45:47

Most people don't do that and then then you're just kind of rudderless and you're just trying different things and it, yeah, I never really. It's a really difficult way of being and I think as well, back on um quotes, I think my, my one, going forward, and I haven't had a tattoo in probably 10 years. But if I get tattooed again, it'll be the word make. That's my word I'm. That's all I'm trying to do at the end of the day is just tell people to make and that'll. That'll be my legacy and that'll be what I leave behind. Because I think a lot and this is like, yeah, getting deep and emotional, but I think a lot about we had Poppy Chancellor on our podcast a couple of times and she just passed away recently and, yeah, she was 36 and she had a rare form of leukemia. I cherish our episodes that we had with her. She's such a beautiful person and just wonderful. But I think about her legacy and she did all of the work around grief, which is so bizarre than me processing my grief of losing her through her work that she made on grief, which is a very weird thing, but she left behind all of this beautiful work and it got me to thinking like what will be my legacy, and so I think the podcast will be so much of it and, if it can be, if I can distill everything down into one word, that's what everything I do is about, is about you should make, and part of the reason why I went and became a successful street artist is because I wanted it to be a case study of like look, we'd built a successful company and we told you about everything that we did to do that. But now I'm going to start from scratch and I'm going to go and build something completely new and just so you know that the first time wasn't a fluke, like we told you that we did all of this the first time to make this a success. Now, here's what I did, what I took from that. I did it again and I made this a success. Now here's what I did, what I took from that. I did it again and I made this a success.

Speaker 2: 47:34

And Adam did the same thing, because he's got a successful business now and it's like people talk about, like luck and all of these different things, like it would be impossible for both of us to get lucky again.

Speaker 2: 47:44

Do you know what I mean? It's knowing where you're going, it's putting all of your experience and effort into doing the thing, and it's like I just want to give people that confidence that if they make it's so simple, if you just keep making things happen, because if you make a podcast, then opportunities come from it and you meet amazing people and you start new friendships. And if you make a novel, so someone reads it and then they get in touch with you and they offer you this opportunity. It's like everything leads to something else by what you make, or it could be just like no one sees that novel, but from doing it you learn about something about yourself and you realize I don't want to write novels, but I want to write short stories and that changes your life. It's like through making, that is how life will change and exciting things will happen.

Speaker 2: 48:27

So you just got to keep making so that's what I want to leave behind to make yeah, the.

Speaker 1: 48:30

What an incredible legacy, though get other people to go out and make and build their own lives, and I'm so sorry I didn't know that poppy passed away yeah, and I just recently listened to her episode actually, and it was so beautiful and so powerful and I remember she was talking in about this community around grief that she created and how she wasn't willing to monetize it.

Speaker 1: 48:49

She has her art for monetary things and she has this non-monetized community of people experiencing grief and the kind of mixed emotions that come with helping someone feeling the joy to give people a community, but also the sadness that they have to need that community. It was so beautiful. I really loved how she spoke. That's something I can easily recall because I felt like that was really beautiful and authentic.

Speaker 2: 49:15

I'm so sorry for your loss and she has left something incredible behind. No, she was the best. We recorded three episodes with her. Two went out. One of them was that was like one of those corrupt files. I'm so glad that we, that we had that conversation, even though no one ever heard it.

Speaker 2: 49:25

You know, yeah, she was so full of light I think I I've met two people that can walk into a room and when they do, like it's just two people. In my entire life I've met two people like that and she was one of them. Like she just had that thing of like like moths to a flame as soon as she was in a room. Everyone was like who is that person?

Speaker 2: 49:45

I need to be careful because I'm gonna tear up otherwise. But I guess after me and adam sort of processing that and talking about it together, the kind of conclusion from that was it makes it so real that no one had that on their bingo card that Poppy was going to die. You know it's like especially someone who's so full of life it's the last thing you expect and it just goes to show that none of us know. And so it's so cheesy and cliche to say, like you've got to make the most of today, but like you fucking do, because you don't know what's gonna happen, like I'm cycling home tonight, I could literally get hit by a bus, and if I do, I'm glad that I got here today to make this podcast and join me, because that's going to affect a couple of people's lives and that's really important.

Speaker 1: 50:23

So so, yeah, do what you can I'll tell you quickly this quote that I really loved and it was something gary v had said and that was you are going to die. It blew my mind and I just think that, whether I feel excited about something and I'm a bit nervous or I have the resistance, I think I'm going to die.

Speaker 2: 50:40

I better go do it.

Speaker 1: 50:42

But I just find that so powerful the reminder that we have a finite amount of time here and we only have a little bit of time to go and do the things that make us happy and that will reward us or reward other people. It's really, really important to remember that. And it can sound cheesy and it can sound like you're preaching, but if you really just believe it, you know we're not going to be here forever. I hope that nobody gets upset that we've just reminded them you are going to die, but now is your chance to go and do the things you want that's the thing that poppy would always talk about is how uncomfortable we are around death, especially in the UK.

Speaker 2: 51:14

It's something that we really struggle with and it's the unfortunate truth for every single person listening to this. Unless they've worked something out that I haven't yet, it's like we're all doomed so like might as well just try. Yeah, do all the stuff that everyone told you was impossible.

Speaker 1: 51:31

Very sorry to hear, but she's left an amazing legacy behind her legend yeah I was wondering. You have said before and this may have changed, so I'll check in so you know these episodes recorded a long time ago, but you had said that rick rubin was your ultimate guest. Is that still true?

Speaker 2: 51:46

yeah, still true, but it will be a challenge, but he's he's definitely the ultimate, but it's so interesting that, since saying that he's done, creativity has become his whole thing. It's really interesting. But, yeah, he's still number one on my list of someone that I'd love to have a chat with.

Speaker 1: 52:01

yeah, yeah, I would love for you to have a chat with him, because I think that would be such an incredible conversation.

Speaker 2: 52:06

Yeah, I'd love to chat to Rick. So, rick, if you're're listening, give me a shout rick will obviously be listening to my podcast for sure we talk about.

Speaker 2: 52:14

We talk about flags on the podcast all the time. So if you've been listening for a long time, I know you know about flags and whenever you a flag is any type of work that you make. It's a business card, it's a conversation that you have with someone, it's any time that someone finds out about what you make. But and every single podcast episode is a flag when you post something out into the internet Taylor Swift and Shaquille O'Neal use the same internet that you do, so the chances of them finding it are just as much as anyone else finding it. I mean, because that's literally the reason I mentioned Shaquille O'Neal is because he owns one of my paintings and that just simply happened because I post online. I didn't have a huge following at the time. I think I had 2000 followers when his people got in touch with me. Now one of my paintings hangs in Shaquille's house. It's like that's nuts. That's absolutely nuts. But it's just because I put work on the internet and he happened to see it. I mean, very lucky that with only 2000 followers, he happened to see a piece of my work, but it it happened and I think that if you make a podcast, you never know who's going to download it. It's like um. You know there's a spotify um website. I can't remember the name of it, but I I guess if you type in like zero listens spotify, there's thousands of songs that no one have has ever listened to and you can go on there and you'll be the first play of a song. But, like, someone made that and they they put it out on spotify and zero people listen to it. But they made it and that doesn't mean that in 10 years time someone's not gonna listen to it. I think if you look at um, currently sophie ellis beckster and um princess superstar are having career resurgences because salt burn used their songs in their in their film and then tiktok took those songs because gen z had never heard them before and starts playing them on tiktok.

Speaker 2: 54:02

Like, because you made that piece of art, it lived its little life and then it lived another whole new. And you never know what's going to happen with, like, anything that you create. It's like you put it out there. It might get ignored, it might get consumed and then it might have a whole other life and you never know who is going to consume it, who's going to be affected by it. Everything that you want in life comes from relationships with people that you build, and so many opportunities that I've had in my life have come from heard you on this podcast, or I listened to your podcast, or I saw your work in the street and it's just everything that comes to me is just because of the flags that I've distributed out into the world.

Speaker 2: 54:39

So you, if you make, if you make a piece of work, put it out, because you never know what will come from it. Yeah, but just have zero expectations. That's the thing. You've just got to put it out with love, hoping that a few people will find it and take something from it and if it's good, they'll share it with other people. Because it's like we've had Cal Newport on our show and he has zero social media presence, but he's a multiple, multiple, multiple New York Times bestseller and that's because the work is so good and it's old school media, it's book form, but people read the book and they go well, bloody brilliant. Let me tell my mate about it. You should, you should listen to this or you should read this. That's how good ideas spread, I think.

Speaker 2: 55:18

I mean I'm currently thinking about deleting my instagram account, really, yeah, and I've got 100 over 100k followers on there, but I don't enjoy it anymore. Like, do you enjoy going on instagram anymore? No, no, it's not fun. I just do it out of habit habit. It's not fun for me anymore and I'm really thinking like, yes, I successfully built an audience on social media and that's been really beneficial to me, but the people who really give a shit about my stuff are on my mailing list, so I still have access to all of those people. So if I did get rid of Instagram, I have access to those people and I make real life work out in the streets.

Speaker 2: 55:50

That real life people go past every single day. I was down in the dumps the other day because one of my posts didn't like perform very well because Instagram's like my reach on there is terrible at the moment and I've got all of these followers and none of them ever see my work. And then I just thought I've got a piece outside Shoreditch High Street station. Thousands of people walk past that every single day.

Speaker 2: 56:09

So it's like me, judging on the amount of likes I get, it's like no think about the impact that I'm having in the real world of people that actually go past my stuff, and so that just made me think, well, maybe I could just can this all together, because the opportunities that I get are from people who have seen my work in real life. Although I've got followers from all over the world, it's very rare. It happens sometimes, but it's very rare that I get an opportunity from someone who hasn't experienced my work in person or listened to my podcast like I've been in their actual ears or they've seen my work in, like they've been affected by my work by seeing it with their own eyes. And so I just think like, yeah, maybe that's, maybe that's the route, because social media is not bringing me joy at the moment, so maybe I just just paint in the streets and see what happens.

Speaker 1: 56:51

Then I think the one thing that Instagram does give to me is community, because I'm so new to it all, and I could do a whole section talking about how new and naive I am to everything, to street art, to the type of music that I'm playing now. By the way, I opened a set with that Princess Superstar song, the other day yeah. So I was like, oh, that's nice, but I loved that song when I was a kid and then I forgot about it.

Speaker 1: 57:12

So much new stuff all the time, but I'm in a really naive space which I was talking to my boyfriend about and I was like you know, I don't really feel qualified to talk to all these people because they know so much and I don't know anything and I'm just I'm asking because I just genuinely don't know, and he says, no, that's a really privileged slate and you're asking questions and learning like somebody else will be. So that's quite good. But what it has given me Instagram is I find the people I want to learn more about and learn from and get a bit of community, and maybe they'll see what I'm doing and I'll like what they're doing and we'll end up having like a little friendship and make connections that way. So it might be a different experience when you have a huge Instagram like yourself. You know you've got this huge reach and I suppose there is an element of metrics that you're trying to reach and you know it's a business. At the end of the day, you're an artist and you have whatever it is.

Speaker 1: 57:59

You set whatever goals you have for yourself. But for somebody who just wants to just genuinely connect with people, it does still have something good there, but I think the algorithm's fucked to put it.

Speaker 2: 58:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean in terms of getting guests for our podcast, it was always the the greatest outreach program. Like you can, you can email people's agents and stuff, and it's like you. They're firewalled, and I mean for good reason, because they're trying to save that person time. But you can bypass all of that if you manage to get a dm through to them. So so, yeah, it definitely has its um, it definitely has its place. It's just yeah, it's not.

Speaker 2: 58:32

I'm just not enjoying it at the moment, just finding it a grind like I want to paint in the street. I don't care about creating content, I care about making the work and I think that the more that I do it, the more that that's grinding on me of like the. I guess now that the need to like when you first start your career, you need to make content because you need to get seen. Now that I've been seen, I don't really need to make the content anymore and I don't enjoy making the content. So I'm just like maybe I should stop. I don't know. But I am also also like looking at other platforms and and like I'm on tiktok and I've got a good following on tiktok and I'm thinking about posting more there and and I'm thinking about substack at the moment as well, so, yeah, yeah, yeah there's lots out there.

Speaker 2: 59:11

It's just finding what platform you can utilise for yourself. That's going to be the most beneficial.

Speaker 1: 59:17

Yeah, so, david, we're running out of time, sadly.

Speaker 2: 59:23

I'm really sorry, do you want to do a part two.

Speaker 1: 59:25

We're going to have to do a part two because I've got so many questions. The one thing that I'm going to ask what is next for David's Beat?

Speaker 2: 59:34

Oh, that's a good question. I'm working on a documentary called Make, because I think make is the most important word that we have and it's the most important thing that we do, and everything that we do comes around because of what we made in the past. And the more we make, the more we get better at making, and the more good things that we're able to make, the more that we can change our life with those things that we have made. So I'm making a documentary. I don't know how to make a documentary. I don't have any contacts at Netflix, I don't have like but I'm gonna make it and see what happens. I'm gonna put it out probably on YouTube, I guess is. But because I don't have an existing YouTube audience, I know that if you just put something on YouTube, it doesn't just all of a sudden take off and loads of people watch it. So I think it's going to be one of those things that I'll make it and then, if it's good, people will watch it and they will go. That was really good. I need to tell someone about it and they will share it and organically, hopefully, it becomes a thing. But that's kind of my focus at the moment.

Speaker 2: 1:00:23

Losing Poppy really was a wake up call. It was a shock to my system. We also lost Jamal Edwards, who was also a previous guest on my show. So weird having two people that you've interviewed that have passed away, both so young, and I think that that really has been a kind of reminder. Like Poppy died when she was 36 and I didn't start doing my neon stuff until I was 37.

Speaker 2: 1:00:47

If I died at 36, really not many people would have heard of me. Like outside of the podcast, which had a healthy audience. No one would know me for my art, which is what most people know me for now. So that kind of just made me realize that nothing is promised. So I will be continuing to paint as much as is humanly possible, as much of the limits that I can push my body to.

Speaker 2: 1:01:08

I will do it because I have something to say that I before I wasn't brave enough to say it, but now I am and it's important, and I'm going to do that through the work that I make. So I'm going to keep on making. So I guess that is me saying more of the same, like I'm going to keep painting, I'm going to keep making podcasts, I'm going to make a documentary and I'm going to continue getting inspired by the stuff that other people are making, because I just I find it so beautiful. So I'm always flying the flag for creativity and hoping that people just let go of whatever's holding them back and start to put their ideas into practice and and live remarkable lives, because it's totally possible thank you so much for your time.

Speaker 1: 1:01:47

Thank you for speaking with me. Can you please tell us, for anyone who hasn't found you, where can we find you on socials? Maybe not Instagram? Where can we find you on socials?

Speaker 2: 1:01:56

Yeah, I'm davidspeeduk At. Davidspeeduk is my handle on various different platforms. Yeah, not sure where I'll be, but or you can just Google me. I come up my website's there and yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:02:11

There you have it. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of this Is Disruption. If you enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to follow the podcast and never miss an episode. You can find us on all major podcast platforms Apple Podcasts, spotify, etc. Also on YouTube. Stay connected with us on social media. You can find the podcast at this Is Disruption pod on Instagram and TikTok and you will find updates and snippets of upcoming shows. Until next time, keep challenging the status quo, embracing your creative spirit, and be brave. Go and create. Thank you and see you in the next episode.