Endless Artist: The Power of Illegal Art and Creative Freedom

Meet Endless Artist - The prolific London based artist who has made an indelible mark on both on the streets and in the galleries. This episode explains his unique creative process, blending digital and traditional techniques to produce layered mixed media masterpieces.

We discuss the exhilarating risks and freedoms of creating illegal street art, and how Endless uses modern culture and advertisements to subvert commercial messages with his work. You'll hear about the transition from fine art education to the raw, unsanctioned world of street art, and how he navigates the balance of following bursts of inspiration and self-imposed deadlines, a challenge for many creatives (speaking for myself!)

Endless shares stories of his nighttime escapades in London, the unexpected collaborations that have sprung from his visibility in the street art scene, (like how a serendipitous encounter with a local street art appreciating priest led to a monumental installation in a church) and the eerie but inspiring moments encountered during the wee hours.

Endless also opens up about the philosophical choice to remain anonymous, taking a stand against selfie culture, and the critical role of resilience in the face of criticism. We explore the chaos of constant inspiration and the importance of setting goals while staying adaptable. 

This episode provides a comprehensive look at the motivations, inspirations, and untamed creative spirit of an artist who continues to redefine the landscape of contemporary street art. Don't miss out on hearing the insights and stories from a modern legend in an episode that promises to inspire and captivate.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello there. You are very welcome to. This is Disruption podcast, with me, your host Rua. This podcast brings you in-depth interviews with the fearless creatives in street art, graffiti, music, photography and beyond, who boldly challenge the status quo, break barriers for others and share their work unapologetically. Each episode is a deep dive into the lives of artistic risk takers, exploring their motivations, their inspirations and their reasons for their willingness to disrupt societal norms. Some of these stories involve revolutionising their industries, while others are pushing the boundaries of legality with their art. Coming up on today's episode.

Speaker 2: 0:39

It's illegal, but the illegalness gives it the power, because you can get permission to paint a wall which looks great. But for me, something put up illegally that you see and you know that art is taking a bit of a risk, it's more powerful, it's 100% more powerful, and then you look at the art in a different way. The thing with street art that I love is freedom, and if you want to go out, put it on the street. No one can stop you.

Speaker 1: 1:02

Joining us today is Endless Artist. He is an acclaimed street artist whose thought-provoking work has left an indelible mark on the art world, both on the streets and in the galleries. Endless's distinctive style and bold commentary on contemporary culture garnered widespread recognition and numerous accolades. In today's episode, we will explore Endless's views on creativity, discussing how he channels his unique vision into his art and the importance of pushing boundaries and being brave. Prepare to be inspired by the insights and experiences of Endless. Sit back, relax or, even better, go and create something as you listen to this. This is Disruption. I am so delighted to be joined by Endless Artist. We are meeting here in Dalston today, in East London, and I'm so pleased that he's agreed to come and have a chat with me and tell me all about his art. Welcome, endless. How are you doing?

Speaker 2: 1:56

Hi, good thanks, I'm glad to be here.

Speaker 1: 1:58

I have so many questions for you and I don't even know where to start.

Speaker 2: 2:02

Endless questions.

Speaker 1: 2:03

Endless questions for endless artists. Absolutely. The first thing that I'll ask you is how would you describe what you do?

Speaker 2: 2:09

I'm an artist, that's simply it. If you go into it in more detail, I guess graphics, street art, contemporary art, kind of a mix over of a lot of genres.

Speaker 1: 2:18

I'd love to hear more about. You work in so many different mediums. How do you make a decision when you have an idea?

Speaker 2: 2:24

All my ideas go from my brain straight onto computer normally and that's kind of like where I draw things, where I collage things and get the idea into some sort of visual medium and then that can be printed digitally or made stencils of, or projected and painted Depends what I'm doing. So each artwork is different how in my brain, visually, how I see it, how it comes out. I just use the skills that I've got to make that happen.

Speaker 1: 2:48

Do you have a preferred medium that you like to work in?

Speaker 2: 2:50

Not really, but I'm quite strong on kind of creating digital and paint together. I like the mix of like a straight line and then paint splatter. When people say digital is not as strong as a hand painted thing, I like to mix both and build up layers.

Speaker 1: 3:05

Your work is super distinctive. If I see something of yours, I can test it.

Speaker 2: 3:13

That's good, because sometimes I think I'm all over the place. But in my work I like the layering, because I think in life everything's layered and everything is all over the place in a way, and then there's some structure that pulls it together. So I kind of want to get that across in my work as well.

Speaker 1: 3:23

I went to see a show that you have in a church and there was a huge fabric piece that was so incredible 12 meters long.

Speaker 2: 3:32

Yeah, so I used the same techniques. It's just I digitally printed onto fabric and then built up layers and had it stitched in and then that got stretched over this huge piece of wood that was in the church that had the cross on. So, luckily the priest, let us cover the actual cross in the church with my own version of a cross that was completely layered and commenting on kind of like contemporary issues. But yeah, we were lucky to do that with a nice priest.

Speaker 1: 3:59

So how did that come about? I went to see that show and it was fascinating.

Speaker 2: 4:02

Actually, the priest saw my street art, like around the corner, and I've got one piece that is called Chappelle, which is like a perfume bottle and instead of Chanel it says chapel. He saw it and he kind of recognised the reference to the church within the artwork. It's all about kind of brand worshipping and how we go to the shops on a Sunday instead of the church and he kind of liked that. So he connected on Instagram through the church Instagram and then we got talking and I had an idea that we should do something. And then we had a meeting and I went to the church and I saw the space and I thought, yeah, we need to do something there, because as you walk in the room it's kind of quite a modern church, but it's amazing when you walk in and then you see all that space. So it all happened kind of naturally, but from the street art the illegal street art that is such a cool story.

Speaker 1: 4:47

I don't know what I expected, but it was not a priest reaching out to you on instagram I love that.

Speaker 2: 4:53

It's a fan of street art thing.

Speaker 1: 4:54

I love that you got an opportunity from a cool priest that wanted to create something. That's awesome. I'd love to learn more about how you got started in street art. I've got a question for you what is the first piece of art you ever remember making?

Speaker 2: 5:08

uh, probably when I was about two or three and we'd go to what is it? Kindergarten not kindergarten, that's american, but the equivalent nursery and we'd be doing like creative stuff and the teacher wanted me to do we were doing handprints. So you put the paint on your hand and then you put it on paper. But I was so adamant that I didn't want to do that because I didn't like the mess. So I'd draw around it like that and she was saying that that was wrong. And then I remember thinking in my head like that can't be wrong because I'm still making the shape. So then I look back and I'm thinking that's kind of like a stencil. So that was the first kind of shape that I was drawing around my hand and I was about three. I remember being really upset. I think I might have cried because she told me what to do and that is like you have to be stubborn to be an artist, absolutely so, yeah, that's my first staying with me kind of memory of being creative. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:56

I love that question because what I have found so often the answer is something that is in their work now. Yeah, yeah, that's true common.

Speaker 2: 6:05

Yeah, so drawing around the hand, that is kind of how I make work now with projections, with simple lines, stencils. It's the same, because now I would draw around the hand, cut it out and then spray it yeah, but little. You knew something that teacher didn't as you get older, you can look back at moments in your life and then see how you've come forward and all these little lines you can connect. Yeah, it's interesting super interesting.

Speaker 1: 6:27

So did you always want to be an artist?

Speaker 2: 6:30

yeah, even from when people ask you what you want to do when you're young, I said artists. And always people are like how's that gonna happen? It's not a real thing or it's a joke job. But I always knew I didn't know what an artist was even back then, but I knew the word art and what that was. So I knew I wanted to be an artist. And then as you get older, you go to school, college, university and you can study it and you work out how it works in real life. But even at university they don't teach you how in real life to be an artist. So once you leave education, then you're in the real world and then you have to figure it all out again. But as long as you always want to do something, you'll figure a way, and that's kind of where I am now definitely.

Speaker 1: 7:05

You'll always find a way, yeah there's always a way, it's true so you did study art in university? Yeah, what was that like?

Speaker 2: 7:12

I studied at college, after school first, so that was like a general course fine art. We did everything photography, drawing, printmaking, and that's where you kind of find where you want to go and and mine was more graphic printmaking. And then I went on to university to specialize in that, yeah, and you use all the techniques and that's where I built up my layering technique spray painting, screen printing everything.

Speaker 2: 7:35

But you also learn kind of Photoshop skills, everything like that, but on top of that you learn how to think as an artist. We studied art a lot, but also study things around you and how you see the world, which is a completely different way when you're an artist.

Speaker 1: 7:48

Was there any one massive takeaway that you had from your studies?

Speaker 2: 7:52

I think college we were taught we were quite close to our teachers and they were amazing. But when we got to university you were left on your own and then you'd have a crit where you'd have all your work and you'd have to talk about it and the teacher would be really harsh and make people cry. Yeah, it was really, because talking about your art is hard anyway, but when you're at university it's for a course. It's different pressures. For me, what I got out of that is that is how it is in the real world, because you always get harsh people like no matter what you do, and we were left on our own at university. More so you kind of like learn how to do things for yourself. So, yeah, from university I got kind of like skills of how to work by myself without too much input from other people.

Speaker 1: 8:36

You just touched on a really interesting point there, and it's about dealing with criticism. Yeah, how do you deal with criticism? Do they prepare you for that, or is it just a lesson? Take this harsh criticism and see how you deal with criticism. Do they prepare you for that? Or is it just a lesson? Take this harsh criticism and see how you cope with it.

Speaker 2: 8:49

I don't think there's any school that teaches you how to deal with it, and everyone does it in different ways, but the teachers there, maybe, were harsh to us to teach us this is how it's going to be, and if you want to do this after university, that is real life and that's what I got from it without them saying it. But yeah, I don't think there's any way of dealing with criticism in a good way.

Speaker 1: 9:10

That was me asking for myself.

Speaker 2: 9:12

I should be asking you.

Speaker 1: 9:13

I'm just asking the questions I want help with.

Speaker 2: 9:15

I think if someone's critical, as long as I'm doing what I want to do, they can say anything they like, because at the end of the day, every day, I'm doing what I want to do, so there's not much you can say, that's gonna like harm that.

Speaker 1: 9:28

Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah, you left university. How did you take your art to the streets? What inspired you to come to the streets and show the world your art?

Speaker 2: 9:37

I was always interested in modern cultures, whether that was like magazines adverts, and then when I moved to London after university and London was like magazines adverts, and then when I moved to London after university and London was like where everything was happening still is creatively, and you see everything in one walk of a street. But I was looking at the streets and thinking what is street art? And I saw like the adverts, the fashion adverts, the billboards, the shops, and I thought that is communicating with people in the same way as what we thought of street art at the time, because street art it is pure art but there's always a message. And then the message of billboards is eventually buy me. And street art has a similar thing now it's more commercial.

Speaker 2: 10:16

So I kind of like liked the idea of taking an advert from a street and then twisting it and giving it a new message and then putting it back on the street. And that's where I got the idea from the Chanel kind of motif with the Chanel bottle but changed to chapel, commenting on how we worship brands. And then I did another one which is Calvin Klein, an advert from the 90s with Mark Wahlberg. I kind of changed that to Calvin classics, commenting on kind of the fake brands and the how we look at luxury, expensive items and cheaper items and how we get drawn into these adverts.

Speaker 1: 10:51

Yeah, so I found how humans react to what they see on the street every day is my main point of interest really what was it like making the step from doing art that you've been taught to do and taking it to the street, as you mentioned, illegally, because street art unfortunately isn't necessarily legal. It's accepted in some areas, but mostly generally not. What was your first time putting up street art like? Was it scary?

Speaker 2: 11:17

yeah, I guess you have to overcome what you think is right and wrong and do it in the best way you can without you know you don't go on someone's house or something that you find, something that's broken down or an old piece of board, but you know it's illegal. But the illegalness gives it the power because you can get permission to paint a wall which looks great. But for me, something put up illegally that you see and you know that eye's taking a bit of a risk, it's more powerful, it 100% more powerful, and then you look at the art in a different way and it's always in spots you don't expect it to be so I was always doing it in central London or Soho, even West London, where there's less street art, and you're reaching a different audience as well.

Speaker 1: 11:59

Definitely. Even on the walk down to G-Shock Studios, when I walk from Tarnow Court Road, there's multiple endlesses that I can spot around the place, which is pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 12:10

Yeah, I used to do when I first started. I'd do about four nights a week, all night just putting up street art stencils and pasting up work, and I'll just walk the whole of London and now I've got other things I've doing, like studio work, so I do less but yeah, I still put stuff around.

Speaker 1: 12:25

So your career has really developed from walking around Soho at night putting bits up to a really amazing career now working with tons of brands and in galleries. How has that progression happened?

Speaker 2: 12:35

Literally from doing street art. They always say, like crime doesn't pay for everyone it has paid for me.

Speaker 2: 12:41

I do think that the hardest thing is going from studying it to thinking I want to be an artist. You have to communicate, and I mean, like Instagram and social media is one way, but to do it direct and in a different way to street art, it's the best way, because people see that when they go to work, when, like you said, you sort of talk on the road and it's unexpected, it's completely different. So when I was doing it, like constantly, brands would come to me, galleries would come to me, because I was doing something different, I guess yeah, and in areas that people don't expect it as well yeah, location is key.

Speaker 2: 13:16

Now, if you go to, shoreditch is covered in street art, but if you go to somewhere where there isn't much but there's still stuff going on, you'll get more eyes on your work that's how you get your work noticed yeah, it's true, and I and the thing with shortages.

Speaker 2: 13:30

It is known for street art, so people go there to look at it. People don't necessarily see the difference between the illegal and legal there, because they just come to see art. Yeah, but for me it's more powerful if it's illegal, yeah, and I'd rather see a small thing in the corner than a huge mural the secret ingredient is crime.

Speaker 2: 13:48

Yeah, for sure, I think risk more than crime. Yeah, or the power of making something happen. Rather than doing hundreds of emails, doing a sketch, going up on a crane, doing that's still making it happen. But you're making something happen without permission, without asking, you're just doing it for you. That's more powerful.

Speaker 2: 14:06

Yeah it's like a pure act of creation yeah, the thing with street art that I love is is freedom, and if you want to go out, put it on the street. No one can stop you. Yeah, someone can stop you, but hopefully no one will stop you I really love that.

Speaker 2: 14:20

It's all about taking initiative and if there's something that you want to say to the world, going out and doing it yeah, and sometimes you'll do it and you'll think no one sees it and it might be a month later that someone says I saw this or so. So I've had like nights and nights of walking around london, freezing cold, doing this and thinking, is this worth it? In the back of my head. But I know it is. Everything you put up gets seen by someone. You just got to think every little bit you do is worthwhile yeah, and you never know the impact you're having on somebody.

Speaker 1: 14:49

I bet when you put up that chapel piece you never thought a priest out there is going to love this.

Speaker 2: 14:55

Yeah, you never know.

Speaker 1: 14:56

You never know what's going to come from it.

Speaker 2: 14:57

It's true, I also worked with a brand, karl Lagerfeld. The way they got in contact with me was through street art again, so every contact I've had is through doing street art.

Speaker 1: 15:08

Amazing collaboration. And what is it like to work with the brands? And have you had any massive oh my God? I'm working with the brand. I've always wanted to work with moments.

Speaker 2: 15:17

I think the Karl Lagerfeld one was quite a surprise because I was doing some artwork, like the Chappelle one, but I did Karl Lagerfeld as the god of kind of advertising and fashion.

Speaker 2: 15:27

So I was commenting on the religious side of it again and making him like a God and I was pasting that up around London. And then I went to Amsterdam and did it around there as well and I didn't know. But they have their offices there and one of them saw it and then they showed Carl. And then they got in contact with me and I didn't know if it was for real. So I was like checking the email address, whatever. And then I said, yeah, like checking the email address, whatever. And then I said, yeah, if you want to do something, come over and we can discuss it, because I didn't want to fly over to them because I'd left by then. I didn't want to fly over and waste a trip on just not seeing that this was fully real yet. And then they all flew over into my small flat and came and had a meeting. So, yeah, that one and we've done loads of projects since. So we kind of like keep that relationship going.

Speaker 1: 16:12

That one was kind of a real surprise when it happened yeah because straight from the streets as well, it's not like I was emailing them or thinking about that yeah, so typically when a brand approaches you, are they approaching you saying what are your ideas, or do they come to you with ideas?

Speaker 2: 16:27

uh, mainly, what are your ideas? Because if, if they've come to you, they like what you're doing already, so then they're like how can we work together and with them? It was really natural. We just spoke about different ideas and they loved everything I came up with and I liked their kind of input as well. But I haven't had a brand where they've told me strict what to do. I don't think that really works when you're working with an artist. So I've been lucky so far.

Speaker 1: 16:50

Like you said, when you don't want to be told what to do, you don't want to be told what to create. I'm really glad you get so much creative freedom.

Speaker 2: 16:56

Yeah, with them, 100% creative freedom. Yeah, with any other brands I've worked with, it's been pretty much the same.

Speaker 1: 17:02

I love that you've got this creative freedom working with brands you had commissioned.

Speaker 2: 17:06

Liberty. Yeah, that was early on Again. I did street art around sort of Carnaby Street a lot in the early days and then the head of Liberty saw some of it and followed me on Instagram. And then we had a meeting and we were trying to figure out how we could work together. And then there was an anniversary of the punk movement and they got me in to do the windows in Liberty and we sprayed on the outside of the window for the first time. They let us do that. So, yeah, we did about three windows on the entrance of the Liberty store, which was really cool that is so punk quite punk, but they were worrisome so it's

Speaker 2: 17:40

like semi-punk. But yeah, it was quite cool because we were working on one night. We worked through the night inside the store. So I was inside the shop window and that store is made up of loads of old warships so the wood is all really old and it there's no one in the store, one security guard and the lift kept going up and down. It was like really spooky. So you think the history in there and it was kind of eerie to be in there on your own yeah, that sounds really spooky.

Speaker 2: 18:06

I would be scared there's loads of places in London that are like that the history there. Even I've been doing street art, like four in the morning and there's no one around you in these streets and you kind of see a shadow or something. Yeah, there's a lot of spooky places in London.

Speaker 1: 18:19

Tell us more about that. I'd love to hear about a spooky story or something odd that's happened when you're out and about at night.

Speaker 2: 18:25

I can't think of a specific one, but generally, if you're out at three or four in the morning and you're doing something and you're not drunk, you see the world in a completely different way. I mean, at four in the morning, there's rubbish everywhere and these flocks of seagulls, these giant seagulls, come down and they attack everything, and then there's homeless people everywhere. There's a whole different world that you don't normally see, and when you're going around doing something like this, you're kind of wary of everything, and when you're putting something up illegally, your sound and your vision is heightened even more. So yeah, I've had people come up to me while I'm doing it asking me what I'm doing, but they're always drunk or something. So you kind of deal with different types of people, yeah, but I do love being in london at that time and when the sun rises in the summer and you kind of see this utopia that you don't normally see because London's always busy, but at that time it's just completely dead.

Speaker 1: 19:14

London is such a special city in so many ways, but there's really nothing like super early in the morning and it's really quiet, like you said.

Speaker 2: 19:25

And I like seeing that culture of everyone that's been out all night and they kind of go home slowly and you're feeling good because you're doing something positive and you're not drunk, so you're feeling like the smug one, yeah and then you go home and you feel like you've you've done something that people might see, something positive you've already lived a whole day by the time they get home exactly yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:42

So that was an interesting point. You mentioned about people approaching you and asking about your art and if you're at that time of night, I imagine it can be positive and negative interactions. So I have two questions for you. Can you please tell me a time that you've had a really positive interaction and a time that you've had a challenging interaction working on the streets?

Speaker 2: 20:01

When I've been doing it abroad, I mean in Italy. I was doing some in Florence illegally and I think I was pasting up something huge and someone opened the. It was classic Italian street, all old and rickety windows, and someone opened their window and shouted aggressively at me, but it was in Italian. I don't speak Italian, so I kind of laughed that off and kept going. I thought that was quite funny because if you get abuse in London, you know what they're saying, it kind of scares you, but if it's in another language that you don't speak, it's fine, you just carry on and then, like, whenever I've been doing I don't know if I've had positive I always try and do it and then leave.

Speaker 2: 20:38

So I don't have positive stories from sort of illegal street art and negative ones. I've had one where I've been doing early early on a stencil on a wall and someone came out on their cigarette break at like four in the morning because they worked all night in an office and it was literally there and I thought he was going to tell me off. But I just said do you care that I'm doing this? He said no and he just watched me do it. But yeah, I haven't had anything really I've had a few scary things happen, but nothing where people have been negative to the work what?

Speaker 1: 21:09

What about positive interactions? So do people come up and tell you I love what you're doing?

Speaker 2: 21:13

Maybe if I've got a wall that's commissioned which I do a few times then yeah, you're more free and people can come up and sort of talk to you while you're doing it, which I like that equally. But yeah, the illegal stuff, no one really comes up to you, but you don't want them to anyway.

Speaker 1: 21:29

Okay, your focus. It's the dead of night when you talk about doing things illegally, and I love the clear passion you have for it. And it is just something. It's a rebellious act of creation doing street art because nobody has given you permission to do it, but you have something that you so badly want to say. You'll take a risk to say it. I love that when you do street art. Has there ever been a time where you thought I don't want anybody to know? This is me. This isn't typical endless. This is just for saying something.

Speaker 2: 21:58

Not really. No, I always put my tag, my name, on most things. I'm not like hiding away from the artwork. So, yeah, I just put it out there. Really, I don't have another persona or another style of work.

Speaker 1: 22:09

Yeah, interestingly, I'm not sure if you remember this, but the first time I met you was at Colours Festival in Camden and you had a really large area. I think it was like almost a room.

Speaker 1: 22:20

Yeah, it was a full room and, for anybody listening, endless covers his face. So he's anonymous, you can't tell what he looks like. And there was this fella in the room, with his friends, I guess, and they went to take a picture together and he put his bandana over his face and instantly I recognised you and I said are you endless? And you were like, yeah. So I didn't recognise you because, even though I know your art and I'd followed you, I didn't recognise you because you have that anonymity and I only recognised you when you became anonymous. Ironically, do you have a specific reason that you choose to protect your identity?

Speaker 2: 22:55

To start with it was obviously doing illegal street art. It was just easier if someone kind of had a problem with you or you did it on someone's wall and they got upset. It's just easier not to cross kind of your real life with the street art world. But then I like the philosophy of not showing your face and when I do exhibitions or museum shows I'm there in a very kind of serious setting with my face covered and it's almost like an anti-selfie way as well, where I'm not showing what everyone else shows and I want you to look at the work and not associate the work with my face. Face, yeah, so I like that idea as well.

Speaker 1: 23:31

I love that yeah yeah, it's really great.

Speaker 2: 23:33

And also, you know there's so many people who know your work, but you still have the privacy of your private life yeah, exactly, I mean, my private life is pretty much just doing art anyway, but I like what the mask says, not just about the illegal side of it, but more about like the philosophy of how we're all on instagram, facebook, even facebook has face in the name. It's like it's all about our face and I'm commenting on kind of advertising and things, which is always aesthetically pleasing. Like you have to look like this. So I'm kind of like the comment on covering that up to show the artwork. Yeah, so I'll keep doing it.

Speaker 1: 24:11

Let the art speak for itself.

Speaker 2: 24:12

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: 24:13

I would love to learn more about your creative process. I know you told me a little bit. You start off digitally and then you develop it, but it's more around your ideas and your motivation and what inspires you. So I know that's a very hard thing to answer, but what inspires you?

Speaker 2: 24:26

Yeah, that is a very broad question because you can get inspired by loads of things. When I walk down the street I see some like typography or an advert. So all of that is kind of like going into my brain. But then when I'm at home I'm sitting by myself, kind of developing the ideas in my brain and then I go straight to either like drawing it out or photoshopping it. What you're asking, what inspires me? I guess I guess the way we interact, humans interact with the world, and how the world manipulates humans, and I I see that directly with buying stuff, advertising and all of that world. So I'm mashing up graphics, typography, photography, and then kind of developing it into my own style and I guess each artwork brings out a different message without me overthinking it. I don't want to preach, but I want there to be loads of hidden meanings and then you take what you want from each piece.

Speaker 1: 25:16

Leave it open to interpretation.

Speaker 2: 25:18

Yeah, a little bit. I mean, there's always a stronger visual to each piece. But if you say that piece is about not buying Gucci, yeah, that's right. Or that piece is about like world politics, I'd say, yeah, that's right as well. There's no right or wrong.

Speaker 1: 25:32

When you have all these ideas. So you see something on the street or you hear something, or whatever it might be, and you want to go home and develop that idea. But I imagine you're constantly seeing things that are inspiring you. How do you keep track of your ideas?

Speaker 2: 25:45

That's where my name comes from. Endless, because I in endless creativity and I have this like endless brain flow of visuals. Like you said, I can walk down the street on the way home today and see four or five things that I think would look good next to each other or in a painting. Often I'll let I'll let that like dwell for a few days, because some lot of ideas aren't as good as you think at the exact time you have them. So then maybe in like a week I'll think, oh yeah, that is a good idea and then I'll develop it. But I can't do every single thing I can think of, or I'd be more of a mess than I am.

Speaker 1: 26:16

Well, that was exactly what I was going to ask how do you stay organized with all of the different things you're working on with multiple projects? How do you remain organized?

Speaker 2: 26:25

I work well with a deadline, so if there's a deadline, I can do that perfectly. But it's more about your own personal work. You have to be a little bit strict, like I'm going to do 20 canvases of this and try and do it as a project without anyone asking you to do it. I think you have to be a little bit like strict with yourself and get things done, otherwise you'll just end up just making stuff with no direction asking for myself.

Speaker 1: 26:48

so you, how do you do that?

Speaker 2: 26:49

I don't fully know so I can't answer it. I've got some structure, more than I used to, maybe.

Speaker 1: 26:55

I think it's hard when you've got multiple things you want to work on and when you feel particularly inspired by something in one moment, you really just want to work on that. Maybe you have a deadline for something else.

Speaker 2: 27:04

Also another thing that's really hard if you're an artist I, all artists suffer from this is that when you do one piece of work, you're really excited and you have this creative energy and then you get more than halfway through it and it never goes how you visualize it. And even when you finish it, even if someone else thinks it's good or has a positive opinion, it will never be good enough for the artist. But that keeps you going on to the next piece. So I've never done a piece of work that I think is amazing, but if I did, maybe then I'd stop. So I just keep going. I think like each artwork is an experiment. I don't think it's ever a finished object. I'm always learning from each piece to go to the next one.

Speaker 1: 27:41

That's a really good attitude to have and that is something that I think almost every artist or creative musician, whatever it is you do I think everybody struggles with that. When do you know a piece is done? When are you able to walk away from it?

Speaker 2: 27:56

I think you just you kind of the more you do, the more you know when you're happy enough to walk away from it. But you could literally keep going on it for years. But you have to get to that point where it's good enough because it will never be perfect for you, but it's good enough. And then you use what you've learned from that good enough to go to the next piece. But other people can look at it and go, oh, it's great. But you shouldn't get too hooked up on perfection or what you think is perfection, because what you think is perfection, someone else won't. Anyway. Even if you've reached that, that you thought yourself, and some days I can think that I've done something amazing. I'll come back the next day and not like it. So it's like you're never right.

Speaker 2: 28:34

I love that concept of doing it good enough yeah, good enough, and then move on, because if you keep worrying or looking for that perfection, you'll never get anywhere and you'll make one piece in your whole life and also when we look at somebody else, we might think that is perfect yeah.

Speaker 1: 28:48

I guarantee the artist is rarely happy themselves.

Speaker 2: 28:51

Yeah it's true. So even the one you look at another artist and think they've got it perfect, they won't be thinking that. So you have to think that everyone is at the same level. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:01

Are there any artists that you really look up to and anybody that you would love to work with that you haven't already?

Speaker 2: 29:15

I guess when you're at at uni you study kind of history of art. You study every artist in history and philosophies and techniques. But then I've always been taught to kind of develop yourself and kind of forget about other artists and forget about the history, learn from it and where you're going to go. So I don't like look at other artists and kind of fetishize about what they do and how that should influence me. I kind of go my own way. So yeah, when someone asks me who my favorite artist is, I just say I don't really have a favorite artist. I can walk down the street and see typography on a corner shop and that can be my favorite artist of the day.

Speaker 1: 29:43

This is multiple, endless.

Speaker 2: 29:45

Yeah, it's endless. Yeah, I guess it is yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:48

And has there been anybody in your career that has mentored you?

Speaker 2: 29:51

No, no, I wouldn't say that. I mean, when you work with galleries, they have their opinions on what you're doing and you should always listen to people's opinions. But then take it in and then see how you can work with it if you believe in it, or let it dwell for a few weeks and then see how that comes out.

Speaker 1: 30:15

But no one's mentored me or told me what to do. They think that really works with a creative person. As much Speaking of galleries. You've done a lot of work in Italy. How?

Speaker 2: 30:18

has that come about, because you do loads there? Yeah, I work with a gallery called Criscantini Contemporary and they had a gallery in London before Covid and they have a few galleries in Italy. We've been working together for about four or five years and they took me over to Italy and we did some big exhibitions and then recently two museum shows and we did the Venice Biennale the last one and we even donated the first street art to the Uffizi Gallery in Florence. So we've done some like things out in Italy, yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:47

That is an incredible gallery.

Speaker 2: 30:49

Yeah, it's really amazing. The Uffizi, yeah, so that's a very historical place yeah, the museum. Yeah, it's a museum. It's called gallery, but it's a museum yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:57

It's so incredible. That's so cool.

Speaker 2: 31:05

So you're the first street artist in that collection.

Speaker 1: 31:07

Now officially that's very, very cool, yeah, amazing. One of the questions I had for you is have you had any OMG I've made it moments and I imagine that might be one of them, but I'd love to hear any moments where you've, you know, had the realization I'm living the dream.

Speaker 2: 31:22

This is what I always wanted yeah, I guess those moments are really amazing. But the moment I thought kind of like I haven't made it, but I've made something happen is from doing street art and then having my first show and then having enough money to go into an art shop and be like I can buy anything. That moment I thought I've made it. I've made it enough to do what I want to do. I think that moment is bigger than huge museum shows, whatever money and things like this. It's knowing that you've got that freedom to do exactly what you want to do. That's a bigger moment than any other.

Speaker 1: 31:56

And all because of something that you imagined and then made happen.

Speaker 2: 31:59

Yeah, but then that is true of everything in life, not just art. You have to imagine something, or you have to think of something, then make action so you can be. Anything can be like you're going to eat this type of meal. You have to think about it and then make it. Or you're going to do a 10 mile walk. Your thoughts have to be into your action. So I think a lot of artists overthink and they think I can't do this because then this or how can I be that good? The most I get out of life is when I don't think I, I just do it. I think that's true of everything.

Speaker 1: 32:30

That is something I'm so interested in, and it's about goal setting and deciding what you want and working towards it, or just doing something because it feels right in the moment. So would you say you're a goal setter? Do you have a list of bucket list items that you want to work towards, or do you make it up as you go along?

Speaker 2: 32:48

I think I do both. I think I've got goals and a vision and an end goal that will never be an end goal, but a goal to get to, and then when you get to that it will change. But at the same time you've got to just go with the flow. If you have an idea that comes out of nowhere, you kind of have to do that, yeah. So it's good to have goals and set goals and then be a bit fluid as well.

Speaker 1: 33:10

Yeah, a bit of a mixture.

Speaker 2: 33:11

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 33:12

So philosophical question for you what do you think creativity is?

Speaker 2: 33:17

I think creativity is freedom. So if you have the freedom to do anything you want make music, make art, photography and you can do that more and more in your life until it becomes full time then you've got creative freedom, and that's what everyone who's creative wants.

Speaker 1: 33:32

The freedom to express yourself.

Speaker 2: 33:33

Yeah, but yeah, it's just freedom to make an action happen.

Speaker 1: 33:37

Where do you think creativity comes from? Do you think there's a source? Do you think there's a source? Do you think it's internal? Your experiences.

Speaker 2: 33:44

Yeah, I think maybe it's a bit of everything. I think someone said to me once everyone's creative. I think maybe it's in everyone somewhere, like when you're at school, everyone does art Primary school, nursery, up to middle school and then high school. So it splits off and then the rest of your life most people don't do anything creative, or they'll do like a little bit until they have kids and then they'll do it with the kids. So humans forget how to be creative because they don't see it as this is how you can make money. Maybe that's one reason, or they don't take it as serious. But some people push through that and then make it happen. But our world, our structure, isn't maybe as geared towards creativity, being as high as kind of being a lawyer or maths or english it's rewarding in a different way because you're getting monetary reward, but not necessarily satisfaction.

Speaker 1: 34:34

Some people I'm sure there's a lot of very happy lawyers and bankers out there but it's a different type of satisfaction.

Speaker 2: 34:39

I think, yeah, and being a lawyer can be creative. I guess everything is creative, but in a different way. But pure art kind of gets left behind as you get older definitely.

Speaker 1: 34:51

I think there's a creative element to everything. If you're a mathematician and you love numbers, that's a form of creativity. It's not my form, for sure, but I think there's a creative element to anything you look at. If you are using your mind to solve a problem, you're probably thinking creatively. So I think there's creativity to be found in everything yeah, not just our lives, like in nature, there's everything.

Speaker 2: 35:12

Like they say, we are the creation, so creativity is the strongest sort of element in the world, I guess yeah, and I think it's something you said as well about when you're a kid.

Speaker 1: 35:22

Everybody does art. Because I loved art when I was a kid. I loved drawing and painting. It was my favourite thing to do. If somebody now says, oh, I'd like to have a go at painting, I liked painting when I was a kid, I always say you have to go back to that If that's but you enjoyed it, you have to go back to it.

Speaker 2: 35:44

Yeah, maybe when you look back at what you liked as a kid and then in your teens, that often does affect your whole life as you grow up. So, yeah, a lot of people, as they get older, they'll go back to it. That's true.

Speaker 1: 35:56

If you were not an artist, what else would you be? I know you said you always wanted to be an artist, but what else would you be?

Speaker 2: 36:04

if it could be something, I guess as a specific artist, I guess I'd be something else. Creative it could could have been anything photographer, or fashion, or could be anything. Just has to be like. I only know how my mind works, but my mind works visually and creatively, so just have to be putting that into something else. But we have like so many genres artists fashion, designer, photographer, a musician there's just so many. We put them into these things because if you're good at playing the guitar, you're a guitarist if you're good at but you can be anything you want to be definitely, I totally agree, and I think for me, art and music, I think, are so connected.

Speaker 1: 36:43

If you're creative in one way, you might have another interest somewhere else that you didn't know you had.

Speaker 2: 36:48

Or like I do this in my own way, but I could have taken a different turn in my life and done something completely different creatively.

Speaker 1: 36:55

On that note, this is again quite philosophical question for you. Do you think that things have happened the way they were meant to? Do you think it was all by chance? I'm curious on people's thoughts on how things fall into place.

Speaker 2: 37:06

I think it's up to the person to make it happen. So if you want to do something, you just got to do it. There's no like chance. But when you're further along and you've made something happen, you can then look back and then see these kind of lines from when you were young up until and why it happened. But I don't think that everything's set out. I think you've got to make it happen. Yeah, that's what street art is making it happen.

Speaker 1: 37:29

I love that. Do you have any advice for any aspiring artists out there?

Speaker 2: 37:34

um, not not a general advice, but just basically don't give up and just keep doing it and look at what other people are doing and then see how you can structure your life in a similar your own way but using their methods. So I always looked at, I always watched documentaries on artists, musicians, anything, anything creative and sort of see how people navigate real life while being creative and then kind of implement that a little bit into my life do you have one that you liked particularly, that stood out for you or taught you something?

Speaker 2: 38:06

I don't, there's not one particular one. It's literally could be 30 seconds of something that stays in my brain and then 30 seconds of another thing. But it's good to kind of look to the past and see how other people have done it and then pick out little things to see if you can put that into your life yeah, take the lesson, yeah, but I don't think you should take one lesson from one person, because there's millions of ways to do one thing and that's the thing.

Speaker 1: 38:30

There's so much content now. There's so many people sharing their experiences and how they've done things, and it really is. If you have access to youtube, you can learn so much from so many people.

Speaker 2: 38:42

Yeah, now, with the internet as it is, there's no excuse. You can just do research all day, every day, on something that you love. But back, when we didn't have that much access, it was just always books, and if you said you were going to be an artist, nobody would really know. But now you go on Instagram, put artist in hashtag and there's millions. So it's a completely different, which is good, good and bad do you want to talk about the bad elements of it?

Speaker 1: 39:05

let's expand there. So I think the good is it's so much, there's so much content available. I have an opinion on what I think the bad the downside of that is, and that I'll say it would be that you compare yourself to other artists a lot and you and you're comparing yourself rather than just creating for the sake of it, and also you can get flooded by the research and you might spend so long working on something convincing yourself that you can't do it, that you don't do it and you don't just try. That would be my thoughts, but what are yours? What do you think are the downsides to that?

Speaker 2: 39:34

Yeah, similar thing. Really, the comparison thing is the biggest thing for anyone creative. If you're going on instagram or internet anywhere and you do research on other artists, stuff you like, you always think I'm never going to be that or they're doing better than me. But you should always spin that around and think those people have got to there, which shows me that I can get to there and I could probably go even further in my own direction. So you should take positives out of it, but also don't look at it too much. So when you do look at add it, think positively and because they're at that point, that shows you it can be done. But then you should want to go a little bit further maybe, and that might take 10, 15, 20 years, but you should try always try, yeah, yeah and be patient, because all of these things take so long do you have any other passions?

Speaker 1: 40:22

is there anything you really enjoy doing? That might surprise us.

Speaker 2: 40:25

I guess when I was growing up I was always sporty, keeping healthy. I go to the gym four or five times a week, so I've kept that up. But also when I'm at the gym. I always get my better ideas at the gym because my blood's flowing in a different way and I kind of use it as a meditation kind of. I'm always on my own, headphones in sometimes, or just silence, and when I'm doing something physical I have a few ideas and then kind of the blood flows and then it kind of becomes more. So yeah, I always go to the gym and that's it. I just do art, that's it. Apart from that, yeah, there's no other secrets or weird things that I do.

Speaker 1: 41:04

Well, you do have something in your life that I would love to talk a little bit more about, and that is Fleur. Can you tell everybody a little bit about Fleur?

Speaker 2: 41:12

Yeah, fleur's my dog. She's a Brussels Griffon, which is quite a rare breed, but she basically looks like the character out of Star Horse. She does looks like the character out of Star Horse, she does, and she sits in the studio while I paint and if she's been for a long work walk she'll go to sleep. I can't spray in the studio while she's in there, but if I'm doing anything else she'll just be in her little bed and she comes to the shows and she yeah, she supports me. She's my support dog.

Speaker 1: 41:37

She's so cute. She's such a good dog. I have a really nice video of her on the altar in the church.

Speaker 2: 41:44

She likes to pose. She's used to that. But yeah, she can be like a proper character. So if I'm busy all day I'll always find time to like walk her and then that kind of helps you think as well. If you can get too into your work, then you need to take half an hour off. It's good to have that light break.

Speaker 1: 42:06

It work, then you need to take half an hour off.

Speaker 2: 42:06

It's good to have that light break. It's really good. It's good to get an excuse to go outside and get some fresh air. Yeah, and dogs are great for that. I think I think I've heard it from a lot of creative people that going for a walk or doing something like that gives you more ideas. If you're having, like that block where you can't think of anything or some things are going wrong in your head, you go for a half an hour walk and you're fine. Well, you're not fine, but you're better yeah, fresh air yeah and a bit of exercise.

Speaker 1: 42:24

Is it's just game changing it's true, going outside getting some fresh air, it's just an absolute game changer the simple things work what motivates you, and do you ever deal with periods of low motivation and, if so, how do you get around those?

Speaker 2: 42:38

um, I guess everyone has this kind of creative motivation where you want to make something happen whether that's a piece of music or a piece of art, and you have to be excited by it to start it. So if I have like a visual or something that I'm excited to make, that will push me forward and I'll do it. But then some days, you know, some days you you just have to just do stuff without any motivation. So those days are as important as the ones where you're excited. So always try and do.

Speaker 2: 43:08

Even if I'm having like a day where I don't feel motivated, I'll always try and do like three or four hours of just something that's boring, that I'll just put a podcast on or something on, and I'll just do it. Because if you get lazy or complacent then you'll end up not doing anything. And those moments of motivation or creative inspiration they don't come around very often. And if you're doing something and then they come around, then at least you're in the right place so just keep grafting, basically yeah, you just have to like be quite strict, so every day is different as well.

Speaker 2: 43:41

You can't like be strict enough to tell yourself that you haven't done enough. So, yeah, it's a fine balance. But if you have a structure like say, if you're doing it full-time, you get up and you make sure you started at half eight, nine and you go through till five, six, or take breaks and then go through later.

Speaker 2: 43:57

You just got to be a little bit strict so just have that structure yeah, because when creatives say, oh, I'm not motivated, or I'm not, I haven't got that creative vision, at the moment that won't come. That'll come like five times a year.

Speaker 1: 44:09

So you just got to be more strict with yourself yeah, all of those other days you have to treat it like you're like a job yeah, it's a job, but it's more of a.

Speaker 2: 44:18

This is like uh, I'm treating myself, this is what I I want to do. So if I don't do it every day, then I'm not being true to what I want to do.

Speaker 1: 44:25

I really love this quote and I'm definitely not going to get it right, but it's about looking at things you don't want to do as not as if I I have to do this, it's I get to do this.

Speaker 2: 44:34

Yeah, it's very true, yeah. So look at it as an opportunity instead of something you have to do and the more you build up, you have to think how lucky you are to be doing that.

Speaker 1: 44:43

Amazing. So what is next for Endless? Do you have any big goals, anything you're working towards or anything that you could share?

Speaker 2: 44:52

I'm just working on a new body of work that I'll eventually bring out as a big show. I've been working on it for about a year and a half in between other things. So there'll be like a lot of new canvases, new artworks and some stuff that you wouldn't expect, and I eventually want to put on a big show for that. So that might be in a year or two years hopefully not that long.

Speaker 1: 45:12

The fact that it's something we're not going to expect. On the edge of my seat, Endless. It has been a genuine pleasure to spend time with you and to get to talk to you and to get to pick your brain a little bit. I am so excited to see what's next for you. I can't wait to see what's coming. Tell us where we can find you on socials.

Speaker 2: 45:29

I mainly use Instagram and that's at endless artist. Very simple.

Speaker 1: 45:33

Easy to remember, perfect, so please, everybody check endless artist out on Instagram. Fleur also has an Instagram and I highly recommend you go check that out as well. It has been so lovely to speak with you and I'm so glad you came down. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 45:48

Thank you, it was really easy and it flowed really nicely.

Speaker 1: 45:51

I'm really glad. Thank you very much. Okay, bye. There you have it. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of this Is Disruption. If you enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to follow the podcast and never miss an episode. You can find us on all major podcast platforms Apple Podcasts, spotify, etc. Also on YouTube. Stay connected with us on social media. You can find the podcast at this Is Disruption pod on Instagram and TikTok, and you will find updates and snippets of upcoming shows. Until next time, keep challenging the status quo, embracing your creative spirit, and be brave. Go and create. Thank you, and see you in the next episode.