Helping expats quit alcohol with Susan Hodgson 🍷🚫

🇮🇪🇫🇷 In this episode, we talk with Susan Hodgson, an Irish who was supposed to go in a short holiday to France but more than 20 years later is still there, married and with children. Tune in to discover how Paris has changed over years and how Susan is trying to change the relation expats have with alcohol. Join us to know how a professional coach she helps her clients realise the emotions and effects that alcohol has on all of us and how can we change habits around it, or even quit drinking.

Follow Susan on 📲:
https://www.instagram.com/losetheboozewithsuz/
https://www.sharpsensecoaching.com/
https://thisnakedmind.com/book

Transcript

It's kind of Irish way of doing things. Her friend knew someone who was looking for a PA and I had just done a course. So I met this guy and he was like, "Yeah, sure. Stay and take the job." And I said, "OK." It was all very relaxed. And OK, well, now I'm in France now.
I try not to be too Irish mummy with them. But that's it. The second year in a row, their schools for St. Patrick's Day, they have done Irish dancing and learned an Irish song.
And I became a parent. That was the first time I like really seriously considered moving back to Ireland. Because it was such a shock to the system.
I started digging into my old reasons for drinking and turning everything around and going alcohol free. And when I decided I wanted to help other people and coach. And so no expats like to meet each other over a drink and everything. Until you start questioning at all. You just don't see any other way of doing things.
When I coach with someone, I like start with it like 12 weeks, that's three months. So it depends. It does depend on the person. But that's such a, when you think about it, that's such a short amount of time when you think of all the years you've been drinking.
Action to alcohol, like sort of kicks off before you've even had that, before you even had that glass. That's like we were talking about, you know, 5pm on a Friday, your brain is going come on lads, here we go, come on, come on. And seize the bottle of beer or the glass of wine or here's that, you know, pop.
This is expat experts.
Welcome to another episode of expat experts recorded online. We're taking this advantage of amazing technology to be able to record some episodes with with guests that are not we find we don't find the possibility to meet in the same city. Today we will be talking about expert experience, of course, as always.
And but also like the relation of like, that experts people and people who are living abroad or far away from their homeland has with alcohol and how to change these drinking habits with a certified coach. Susan Hudson, I hope I pronounced the surname correctly. Welcome to Susan.
Yeah.
You are originally from Ireland, but currently living in Paris or close by Paris as far as I remember.
That's right. Yeah, so yeah. The project that you have on social media and like everywhere like it's lose the bus with sus, which is easy to remember, I think it's a cool high stick. So yeah, before we go dig into your into your life and your experiences as an expert, I would like to remind everywhere to everyone who's listening to always follow our social media.
Susan, the social media and everyone and Instagram, Facebook, and all of these but also for the podcast. More importantly, that you subscribe to Spotify and YouTube. So you can stay tuned with whatever it's coming as new episodes.
With that said, thank you again for accepting and for being here today with us and looking forward to know about your coaching part. Also, I find it really interesting the topic and there. But let's first talk a little bit about you.
The Expat, Episode 9 with Susan Hodgson.
And how long have you been living abroad? And right now?
Well, I realized recently half my life I've been abroad now. So I've been in France for like 25 years plus and with a little stint in Spain before that, a couple of sort of over and backs to Germany and when I was younger. But yeah, like, yeah, half my life in France now at this stage. Yeah.
Still amazing to me that I've been here so long when I was when I only came over for like, you know, a little holiday. But yeah, I grew up in the countryside in Donegal in Ireland, Northwest. And I went to college in Dublin. And I'm sort of an accidental expat. I didn't really didn't really plan to move abroad.
Just sort of, yeah, I guess France sort of chose me. I am. When I finished college, like all my friends were sort of heading away or settling into jobs and things like that. And I sort of tried a bit of teaching and wasn't really for me. And so I was kind of at a stage where I didn't really know what to do. So I came over to France for a little holiday, see my sister and a friend.
And 25 years later. So, yeah, be careful. Be careful where you go nowadays.
Oh, gosh. I mean, I've already lived in two countries. I think I'm jumping from that. A little bit, at least. So you said though, that you lived a little bit before in Spain and Germany? So it wasn't France, you're the first country that you lived abroad then?
No, I did a year or so teaching English in Spain in Oviedo, up north. So that was what that was like. That was just a that was a year, you know, adventure. Yeah, just as I'd never been. It was just one of those things. I was headed over and why not? You know, I was in my 20s. I was young. I just took the backpack and off.
I went, you know, so so that was fun. That was just for a year teaching. And I'd had it, you know, as a student, I've been like I had a couple of stints in Germany just working sort of, you know, some summer job type things, three or four months, you know.
So I yeah, I suppose I kind of had a taste for living outside of Ireland already, you know, even if I hadn't sort of properly decided that I would live abroad, you know. Interesting. But at the end, you just like then came back from Germany to France and then you decided to stay in France. What took, what was the decision? What triggered that decision?
Well, there was there wasn't much of a decision really, because I was I was working in a bar at home and my sister was in Paris. And so I was like, well, there's no better time to go to Paris for a visit when my my sister's there. And so I took off for a week and it's kind of Irish way of doing things.
Her friend knew someone who was looking for a PA and I had just done a course. So I met this guy and he was like, yeah, sure. Stay and take the job. And I say, okay. It was all very relaxed and okay. Well, now I'm in France now. So so yeah, I basically just stayed. I came back to Ireland and got some stuff and came back.
On the day after St. Patrick's Day, I officially moved to France for this job. And which was, yeah, which was a bit of an experience in itself. It was kind of, I think it was a bit of a dodgy setup. They were they were importing computer hardware from where I don't know to sell to whom I don't know. But they didn't want to pay.
But they didn't want to pay the duty. So everything got stuck in customs. And it was kind of like, don't answer the phones, and that sort of thing. So it was, you know, pay in a paper bag. So it was kind of a weird, but funny experience. But that was my first sort of job here. But it was, you know, it gave me a taste for life in Paris. So obviously, I left that one fairly quickly. But I got a taste for life in Paris.
And I really liked it. My lovely atmosphere and Paris. It's beautiful. And yeah, so I just saw that I sort of, because at that time, being an English speaker was like a huge plus on your CV being a native English speaker, it was like, very easy for me to get work in like, like secretarial roles and PA roles, you know, so I was very lucky in that respect, the time I arrived.
They were just they were crying out for native English speakers, you know. So yeah, so I was lucky in that respect. Yeah,
but I saw another episode. I don't know when it happened, actually. But another girl was interviewing you also. And you said that you already speak for I mean, yeah, you've been 25 years. When did you learn French in all of this? Because you said that this moment, it was really cool for you to know English and being a native speaker in English. How did the language barrier was for you when you arrived to Paris?
Well, I did have some French because, like most high schools in Ireland will have French on the curriculum. And so I studied French at school and I am going to say in inverted commas studied at university French, but I was a very bad student. And when I arrived in France, I had basically forgotten everything.
And oh, you know, there's a difference between, you know, on paper, doing your grammar exercises on paper and actually, you know, going into a boulangerie and ordering a, you know, a couple of baguettes. Yeah. So it took me a while to, yeah, to, yeah, to like, click in, I do remember at the very beginning, being absolutely exhausted.
Trying to concentrate all the time and like figure things out and like that sort of semi constant state of confusion. Did I understand that? Okay. Or did I miss something or, you know, so yeah.
You lived in Paris Paris at the beginning? Like, was it the you were living in the city center or?
I was living in my first place. I was a share colocation with two Italians and just off Bastille. And then I was living in the Marais. Right beside Hotel de Ville, right? Very, very central. Like couldn't be, couldn't be more like Parisian had like, you know, the windy staircase walk up.
And, you know, the big high ceilings and gorgeous. So I was living there with a Colombian and a Corsican. So, yeah, so our place was kind of party central. So it was a great experience living right in the middle. It's beautiful.
Nice. Oh, that would have been like a movie, you know, living in the center with the whole vibe of the city, I suppose, and everything like, feels like very movie. How do you feel it changed Paris? Like now I think you're not living anymore in the very center, but a little bit like outside of Paris itself. Did it change a lot during these whole years?
You know, I lived, I lived in the Marais for five years before I moved in with my now husband. We moved out further out from the center. And now when I go back in, it's like there were obviously there were a lot of tourists at that time when I lived there. But now it's like the whole vibe has changed. And it's very
like expensive shops and you know, lots of boutiques and coffee shops. Whereas when I lived there, it was still like lots of old, old style cafes and like old French shops and boulangerie and things like that. And like, it was a little bit more dilapidated and less modern looking. So I feel like it's lost a bit of its charm. I mean, it's still beautiful, but it's lost a little bit of its charm, you know. So I think living there now, you know, like Monday to Friday must be a bit of a,
a bit of a challenge, not to mention expensive. But yeah, but now, yeah, but now I'm a, I'm a, I'm suburban. I, when we moved in together, we moved out towards the east. So now I live in a little town. I suppose it's a more, more calmer. Well, yeah, well, originally it was to be able to afford somewhere bigger with more space, you know.
Because you can spend a fortune in Paris for, you know, a studio the size of your table. Yeah. So we moved in together. We basically moved out of the centre to get somewhere bigger. Yeah. And now with the family, we live in the Burbs. So I can't imagine, well, I can because I've seen my friends struggle doing it with like, you know, buggies and pushchairs and shopping and kids and all that and like, you know, four storey walk-ups, you know, with no lift.
And too many neighbours and all that. So yeah, so I do not mind now being in the suburbs. I enjoy it.
Next, what about the life difference between Ireland and France? Like, did you notice it? Like was it really, really different?
I think what I noticed a lot was the speed. I think, well, of course, I had been coming from, you know, I wasn't living in the city when I moved over. But at the same time, I mean, I think that the speed of Paris and the just the more, it was a more kind of exciting vibe. I felt like, you know, everybody was going somewhere to do something like really important and, you know, just a whole different look.
And in Paris, as I said, it's beautiful. And it felt more, it's hard to describe. I guess the atmosphere just felt a little bit more alive. Whereas in Ireland, I feel it's more, it's calmer, it's more chill. It's, you know, sounds like a stereotype, but yeah. But it's more, it's more, it's more calm. Yeah.
Well, yeah, the hustle and the bustle and the people being, let's say, not the sandliest. Some like, I used to get very stressed out if I had any sort of, you know, admin to do, because you'd always have somebody, some grumpy person on the end of the phone, sort of, you know, scolding you for not having understood something or, you know,
so in that respect, it was, yeah, it was quite, that was a bit of a challenge when I first arrived, maneuvering through all that. And yeah, I suppose that's one of the big things I missed when I first moved over as well was just like that kind of laid back attitude and just a bit of crack, as we say. The Irish love to complain as well.
You said you, I can relate to that. Spanish also love to complain and Greeks also, I think. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They do. You were just saying like that you had the, like, that you move now with your husband, and I know that you have a family now in France. How is this, how difficult is to
balance the cultural differences and bringing also a little bit like, I suppose you try also to bring a little bit of like, Irish cultural and a little bit more like, and bring it to your, to your family and kids. How does that work for you, like the family part of it?
Yeah. That's a good question really, because I mean, we're not that far away, like physically, we're not that far away. So we managed to go back to Ireland like once a year, at least, you know, and then we WhatsApp, you know, with the, with the family. I've got my mamas over there and my sister and her kids. So my kids get to WhatsApp and video with their cousins and they
like, you know, speak English with them and, and my little niece will be learning the odd word in French and things like that. And I get like things like, it's funny, but like things like, you know, Irish music or things like that. I just remember when I was a kid, you know, not that that you'd have it shoved at you, but it was more like kind of, you know, when you're a teenager.
You're just like, oh, stop. You know, I don't want to listen to that. You know, I want to listen to my music, you know. And so I don't, I try not to, you know, be too Irish mummy with them. But yeah, but that's it. This second year in a row, their schools for St. Patrick's Day, they have, they have done Irish dancing and learned an Irish song.
And my, my son had to did an expose on Irish sport, Irish sport. And my daughter did an expose on Dublin. And, you know, I was like, that didn't come from me. So, so it's kind of nice that, you know, they had that. And they were able to say, oh, I know that I've been there. And, you know, mom's Irish and she told me blah, blah, blah. You know, so.
So we're not, yeah, we're not that like far. And, you know, in terms of language, we do tend to speak this terrible mix of French and English at home, you know. I mean, I speak mostly English because I want the kids to be able to like have both languages. And, and also I'm lazy. And so it's, so I will speak in French and off in English, I mean, and often get a response in French.
And, and they like to sort of make fun of their father's French accent. And then they like to make fun of my grammar mistakes. And my youngest has even started imitating my accent, you know, so, so it's, it's that nice fun sort of mix.
Nice. I mean, if they are taking it with a fun part, also like the languages and embracing the multiculturality of it, why not? Like that's, that's the whole objective, I suppose. Like, I don't know how you take that. They make fun of your accents. That's the other part. But that's up to you, I suppose.
That's funny. Like my little guy, he goes, "Ni, ni, mommy, ni." And we just got back from a weekend in London, because another reason to love France, we had a five day weekend. So we were over in London, and they were all practicing how to say a "bottwa wa" you know, so yeah, so it's all good fun.
Nice. Have you ever considered going back to Ireland? I mean, I suppose with the kids, it's more complex now and everything and like they are grown up in France. But was it ever something that you had in your mind?
Well, yeah, honestly, yeah. I mean, for my like my first 10 years here, the first few years and then I met my husband and we settled moved in together and settled on over that space of yeah, it was probably nine or 10 years. It was all sort of, you know, just great fun and like, you know, working and, and like just, you know, moving on and living your living your best life.
And I have to say, when I became a parent, that was that was the first time I like really seriously considered moving back to Ireland. Because it was such a shock to the system. And also the expat, that whole expat thing of they do it differently here, they do it differently at home.
But at that stage, like after like about the 10 years, as you know, people tend to move on, they either settle or they move on and they go, you know, they, they go back home themselves, or they find a new country to go to. And so at that stage, like most of my close friends had already moved on, or either started their own family and moved back home, you know, and my husband was traveling a bit.
a bit and when I had our son... That was I think the most that I felt foreign in the
whole time that I had that I'd been here. I really felt like a foreigner, you know, and
things and it's a whole new vocabulary and you got to learn about schools and hospitals
and doctors appointments and more admin, more papers. And I think, you know, so I can look
back now and say that I felt pretty isolated and it did occur to me to move back to Ireland,
but then economically the situation not great and, you know, my husband had his job, I had
my job to go back to and, you know, I just thought, okay, well, just get on with it,
you know.
Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. I suppose, like, at that point it's not a longer about not
understanding either, no, I cannot book a doctor for myself. You're taking care of another
person and the extra responsibility, it's much, much bigger, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I can't get this one right. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big decision. That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
But yeah, my friends had moved away, but I did meet like other sort of Anglo moms. I know
they're always going to be the parent groups and things like that. But most of them as
well were kind of suffering a bit, you know, and they were either not, they'd like sort
of followed their husbands for his job and weren't feeling, like we're just doing, feeling
sort of obligated to be there and dying to get back home or, you know, or also, you know,
people feeling like me, like sort of just, you know, isolated and not quite sure, not
quite sure what they're what they're doing, you know. But yeah. So yeah, that was that.
That was the time I, I did seriously consider it. You're, it helped to have some kind of
community around you at that point of time and that helped you to stay in a place then.
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And even for just even for those like practical questions,
you can't find the answer, you know, pages deep in some French admin site and you're
like, I don't understand. So yeah, community is always important, I suppose. That's what,
that's why we expats tend to congregate as well. Don't we? So do you remember what was
the most complex part for you when you move to France at that point of time? Do you mean,
like at the parenthood stage or beforehand? Beforehand, I mean, like when you arrive,
the first thing that when you arrive in France, what was the most, like, I don't know, more
complex entering? A lot of people talked about bureaucratic, for example, in that moment.
Yeah, it's awful. The bureaucracy, well, I think it's maybe better now, but it was just
atrocious. It was awful. And at that time, because it's so long ago, I was supposed to
have a, a carte de ciseur, a work permit, even though it was European, we still had
those. Oh, nightmare. And you know, you have to have to like have your, your grandmother's
electricity bill in her maiden name and stuff like this to prove who you were. And it was
just, I was atrocious. Yeah. And quite scary because, you know, people across Parisians
would shout at you if you didn't have the right papers, you know, and so it's quite
nerve wracking, you know? But I mean, I think I was very much, you know, I was in my early
twenties. I was on an adventure. You know, it wasn't that sort of, it wasn't terribly
complex because I always sort of had in the back of my mind that I just take my backpack
and go again. You know, it gets more, it gets more complex when other people are involved,
you know, and you fall in love and then you're like, Oh, well, maybe I can't just, you know,
throw my things in the backpack anymore and off I go. So, but yeah, I think. And also,
one of the complexities too, I suppose, is like losing, like losing touch little by little
with your back home friends, you know, because they get on with their lives as well. They
do whatever, settle down or move on or move away. And I guess that's quite, it's quite
tough to keep those connections going, you know? But then, I mean, it's just a natural
part of life, you know, things, you know, fade in, fade out. And yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Do you remember any funny or crazy story? I mean, you just said, for example, that you
needed to give a bill over your grandma. So I think that's kind of crazy in itself already
as a story, but any funny story that happened to you while being abroad that you remember
especially? Oh, well, apart from my crazy job. And, oh, I think it's just, you know,
it's like, it's quite funny that whole state of being in like semi confusion the whole
time, you know, do I get this right? What did I miss? You know, what didn't I understand?
You know, those conversations where you think you're having one conversation, but it's actually
something completely different. And, you know, I was like, you know, I sort of didn't mind,
no, go into a cafe or go into a bar with my book and sort of sitting there by myself,
you know, and then people would, you know, it's a single female sitting by herself, you
have people coming up and just that kind of whole Irish thing. Where are you from? And,
you know, and, you know, sort of, you know, t'es pas française? Ah, you know, that sort
of thing. But yeah, I was just on my little adventure, you know. So, it's nice. You know,
oblivious, my own little world. I think it's a kind of like also life thing, no, I suppose.
It's just like, okay, when you're in your 20s and you have the opportunity to live abroad,
and it's just like, everything seems a little bit more like it happens and whatever it is,
it happens, it happens, no? That changes a little bit with time outside. Yeah. Good.
Then, if that's okay for you, I would say that we can jump directly to the second part
of the episode and then we can talk a little bit more about your current job and not bringing
part of computers without paying customs and this kind of stuff. The expert, helping expats
quit alcohol. So, basically, as I already mentioned in the introduction, you are a coach
and your current focus right now, like a certified coach and your current focus, it's like helping
people with their drinking habits. I think there is like kind of a very niche also focused
on women especially. I don't know if I read that properly or you are like helping generically,
but you focused in experts who want to change their drinking habits and change a little
bit their lifestyle in that sense, no? Where did that come from? Like where this idea of,
or where this target and project started? Well, I think it was a long time coming. It came
from my own experience, my personal experience with alcohol. And I think, like the reason
I work with expat women mostly is because of my own experience. As I mentioned before,
until I became a parent, I didn't really feel as foreign as at that moment. Everything previously,
like I mean, I started drinking when in my teens and of course, the whole way up through
to like my mid 40s when I stopped. And I think that alcohol had a role in my life, like in
each sort of, each decade, I guess, you know, in my teens to help me with shyness, some
like social anxiety, through my 20s, that whole sort of party, Susan, you know, meeting people,
fitting in, finding your like expat people, then sort of settling down, getting more sort
of, you know, sedentary and like then it sort of winds up, Susan, you know, more sophisticated.
And then I think when things became more challenging for me, and I did feel that isolation, and
you know, the tiredness, the exhaustion that comes with having little kids, I mean, we
had our son and then we had twins. So I had three little ones at the same time and a full-time
job and being abroad. And it's the case for so many women. And it's that huge like feeling
of overwhelm and exhaustion and loneliness and never sort of having that time for yourself.
And my own relationship with drinking, with alcohol, at that stage then became very much
a kind of, like a reward for my hard work. You know, it was my treat and it was very
much my time at the end of the day for me, was for me to have a break. And so many people
don't like intentionally use, you're not going to use it, intentionally use wine as, as a,
as a tool, but you fall into that because your entire life from where kids, we learned
that, you know, a drink is going to help. If you're, if you feel good, have a drink. If
you want to celebrate, have a drink. If you feel sad, have a drink. If you're angry, have
a drink, you'll feel better, you know. And so you take all that, all that learning with
you. Like, like I said, in my teens, I took that, like, what's the word I'm looking for?
Like Dutch courage, Dutch courage, you know, when you have a drink and feel a bit more,
less inhibited and all the rest. And then through my twenties. And I should say also,
like when I was in my late teens, I lost my father. And that was, and that was also in
hindsight, that was something that the drink can help me kind of avoid for a long time.
It's like, I'm, listen, I'll just go, I'd like physically move somewhere else and, and
not think about it, you know. So, so it like takes on a role the longer, you know, as you
go on with your life, just naturally does, because it's such an accepted part of society.
It's socially acceptable and it's socially like expected, you know. So it is easy to like
fall into using it as sort of a coping mechanism and a crutch and, and yeah. And that, and
that treat. And then the trouble is because it's actually a drug like any other, it's
addictive like any other drug. When you say to yourself, okay, that's enough, you know,
I'm starting to feel a bit crap now. It's time to, you know, drink less, not, not have,
not have that wine this evening. You still find yourself with a glass in your hand, you
know. And so I think that happens for, for so many women and expats because we have that
sort of added layer of like, of maybe loneliness, isolation, but if, a bit of expat guilt thrown
in there as well. Maybe I should've gone home with families at home, you know. The sort
of, I hate that expression, but the trailing spouse, you know, you, you came for, for your
partner and maybe, you know, what about the whole, what about me thing, you know? And
then, and then women often tend to put themselves last on the list. And so, you know, so then
it's easy for, you know, the wine or the beer or what have you to, to take on that role
of making you feel better and giving you a bit of energy at the end of the day. And all
those things.
So it's a lot of, a lot of social pressure and a lot of like, I, so it's like the expert
part, but then it's all like, woman, expat, it's the next level, I suppose. Like there
is a whole pressure on top of that. And unfortunately, the societies that we live in that's very
present.
It's true, it's true.
But when is that moment of time? Like, did you notice that by your own? Like the, the,
the difference are like, or was also because of your own experience. And then you decided
to say, okay, no, no, I want to deal or talk more with, with women because they are the
most affected in this situation.
I, I, when I started digging into my own reasons for, for drinking and turning everything around
and, and going alcohol-free and I just, and when I decided I wanted to, you know, help
other people and coach and, and learn how to coach and, and learn all about alcohol
and how it works. I, when I, when I went out there, I was like talk, trying to talk to
everybody, you know, and save the world. And, and realized that you can't actually speak
to everybody, not every, you know, so who am I going to speak to? It's going to be people
that I think are possibly, you know, having the same experience that I had and are feeling
the way I felt. More importantly, you know, feeling that, that sort of, you know, what's
wrong with me? Why can't I, why can't I just have two glasses of wine and go to bed like
everybody else, you know? And that feeling of, well, you know, shame for, you know, not
behaving as you want, want to behave. You want to be the person that, you know, does
some yoga and goes to bed, but you're the person in the, in the kitchen with another
glass of red when you said you go to bed an hour ago, but you have, you know? And so it's,
so I just thought it was important that I speak to the people that are living that experience
that I was. That said though, I have had expat men reach out to me because it's not just,
you know, those expat pressures, those expat layers are not just for women, obviously,
you know, for the other side, you've got the expat husband who has taken his, taken, like
uprooted his family and feels enormous amount of guilt for that. And the pressure to succeed
where you are. And also with the leaving the family behind, you know, parents, older parents
and things like that, you know, and the fitting in. Like we all know expats like to, you know,
meet each other over a drink and everything. And it's, you know, until you, until you start
questioning at all, you know, you just don't see any other way of doing things, you know?
So yeah. I can relate to that at the end, like as an expat also, like you see it, you
know, in every expat meeting it's like, okay, let's grab a drink. It's like, I mean, now
it's starting to be a little bit different or there is starting to be, I don't know,
like hiking groups or like things to do other activities and it's, but I felt that the most
common thing it's like organizing a chat and going for a drink and that's it. No, like
that's the whole part of it. I wanted to ask you because as far as I understood, like you
decided to quit alcohol at some point and that triggered you to try to help other people
and becoming a coach. So you weren't a coach before that position at all. How did you became
a coach afterwards and how do you transform these into a professional path? Yeah, well,
it's all, it's all very gradual. I mean, I still have, I still have my day job and I
coach and when I started, you know, questioning my whole relationship with alcohol, this is
in the middle of COVID as well. So we were all, you know, at home and, and the great thing
about, you know, sort of questioning your relationship with alcohol and changing how
you drink and changing how you see alcohol is that you're also like taking full responsibility
for yourself. So not only for your actions because everybody is all about changing, you
know, the behavior, but it's also changing how you feel about yourself and your situation.
And when I started doing my coach training, I wasn't happy in my day job, but with all
the stepping into responsibility for my own, you know, experience of life being with, you
know, in relation to the alcohol or in relation to other people and also in relation to the
job that I didn't like. And then I dug in a bit and realized that I didn't like it because
I had all these stories I was telling myself about, you know, poor me. And so, you know,
it's like other people putting too much pressure on me and other people giving me too much
work and, you know, so it like, so it's quite amazing really that when you start to question
what's so important in your life and kind of, you know, like in my case, the nightly wine
was, you know, absolutely essential to my evening. And you start to question things
like that. You also question other things and you know, you start to question the truth
of all these stories you have in your head. And I know a lot of people who have, who started
coaching and they left their, their like original job to do, to go full time coaching. And I
realized I really like my job that I have, and I also really like coaching and I have
this like privilege to be able to do them both, you know. So, yeah, so that's interesting
development for me that I didn't even know was coming. Yeah. Cool. I mean, it's interesting,
at least you, you discovered, I suppose you discover a lot of like parts that you hide
it to yourself or this kind of stuff. I wanted to ask you, because at the end, what are the
highest benefits that you see or like the highest points that you're, the people that
you help and your clients at the end tell you? I suppose there is some feedback after quitting.
Oh yeah. I mean, from the moment, from the moment you start, it's all about being curious.
Like traditionally, traditionally it's about just stop the behavior, just don't drink.
But with coaching, it's, it's like really a process of examining why you drink. And
a lot of it, like it'll come down to the substance itself. That is, it's an addictive substance.
And if you drink regularly, you're going to want to drink regularly. That's just the way
it works, you know, get a dopamine, you know, little buzz, you want another one, that's
just the way it works. And then there's also like the society aspect of it, the world,
like sort of trained that, you know, if you want to have fun, you have a drink. And then,
there's, then you get to like, to yourself, more layers, but you get to yourself. And
we all have these stories about how alcohol, you know, helps us be better somehow, be like
more fun, more chill, more chatty, like whatever, you know, come up with better stories. Some
people more creative, you know. And so we're all, I would carry these stories around with
us. And then when you start questioning all that, you stop judging yourself all the time.
And when you stop judging yourself, you start to like yourself for the person you are. And
I think learning that self compassion and, and like, listening to yourself and what you
need and how you actually feel, that's like the biggest benefit because all the, all the
other health benefits, like, you know, the sleep you get, the anxiety that decreases,
the like alcohol is, causes depression and anxiety. When I was drinking, I was still,
I was having anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication at the same time. And you know,
since I stopped drinking, I had that, like I said, like I said, you start like talking
to yourself nicer. You start answering those needs rather than just reaching for a glass
of wine. Like, do I need a rest? Do I need a hug? You know, do I actually just, am I
just hungry? Things like that. And so that's a huge benefit that you're just actually more
connected to yourself. Health, health wise, like I said, sleep, amazing. And even, like,
even a glass of wine, just one glass of wine in the evening is going to like disrupt your
sleep. Your mental health is better. Like everything, like everything physical goes
better. Like your digestion works better. Yeah, people say that their heart rate slows
down. People lose weight. Things like that. But I mean, all those health benefits, I guess
everybody knows, but you still kind of do get that messaging that, that, you know, red
wine is good for your heart and things like that. You know, and, oh, I even read one today
about beer. There was something about seven types of beer that are good for your gut,
something like that. But, you know, there's always the paragraph where it says that actually
alcohol irritates your gut. But anyway. So it's like, yeah, so it's like a really, like,
it's just a whole package of feeling better. And I think, and then the most liberating
thing is that, you know, when you don't actually feel like having a drink, you don't have a
drink. But if you're constantly saying, okay, I'm not drink, I shouldn't have a drink. Well,
maybe I can have a drink next weekend. No, I know I said, oh, but maybe I will. You know,
the head, the head space that that takes up and, and just the stress of it. Even if you're
not like a huge heavy drinker, it's still like, it's Friday, ding ding. And your brain
goes, okay, time for beer. So that's hugely liberating and freeing. And so I think those,
those are the benefits. What's the time? Like, what is the process? The normal time span?
Does it differ a lot between one person and the other? Like when, when you coach with
someone, how long, how it expand is this, this whole process? Well, when I coach with
someone, I like start with it like 12 weeks, that's three months. So it depends. It does
depend on the person, but that's such a, when you think about it, that's such a short amount
of time when you think of all the years you've been drinking. But it like usually, usually
by the time someone reaches out for you know, actual help to talk to someone or to join
a group or whatever, they've already tried a few times by themselves to stop drinking
and not, not managed it. And so you're in that, you're in that place where you're like, what
is wrong with me that I can't just stop doing this thing that I want to stop doing, but
I actually still, but I still want to drink, but I shouldn't and that whole thing. So,
so how I start is by saying that we'll let's stop trying so hard to stop drinking and,
and to turn it around to like a more experimental kind of curiosity based work. And that means,
that's not just, you know, here you have permission to go out and get wasted every evening. That
just, just means that we start taking a step back and looking at how that person feels
before having a drink, during having a drink and after having a drink. And has that drink
lived up to everything, lived up to your expectations? Has that, did it, you know, deliver everything
it promised? Was it a great night? Did you manage to stop, you know, when you said you
were going to stop? And so we start like really objectively looking at things with an experimental,
you know, through an experimental lens and start, you know, asking questions without
that, that judgment I was talking about and really look at, look at all our triggers and
what sets us off, you know, what feelings, what circumstances, things like that. So start,
start with that kind of break from trying to stop drinking and observe and note and, and
change the way you talk to yourself. And it's like I said before, you know, we start, we
start when we're kids learning that alcohol is this, you know, essential element in life.
So all that, all those, all that thinking is like, you know, you've got, it's, it's
like the, you know, in those old cartoons, you had the angel and the devil on the, on
the corner, on the, on the shoulders. Like one going, go on, go on, it'll be fun. And
the other one going, no, no, we're going to be good today. And you know, it's, so it's
like really becoming aware of all those thoughts and beliefs that we carry with us our whole
life and asking like, is it true? Like what's your actual physical experience of it being
you know? And so, so it's really interesting. It's really enlightening and yeah, it can bring
up a lot of stuff, can bring up a lot of stuff and, and, and thinking back to all those times,
like where you had a drink and like what it's, yeah. What you were looking for, you know?
It feels like a very emotional process also, like in the sense of like that people need
to open themselves in a, in a, in another level. It's not only about the alcohol itself. It's
another, a lot of other things connected to it. Exactly. I always say it's, it's, it's
never just a glass of wine, you know? It's, yeah, it's definitely because like the tradition
is to just stop doing whatever behaviour, you know, you want to get rid of, like to stop
with the sugar stuff, stop with the coffee, stop with the, stop with the alcohol. But
we rarely, we rarely stop to think how does that make me feel? How do I, what are, you
know, how do I, how do I feel when I want that thing? You know? What is the emotion
that's behind it? Like, and what's the emotion I'm looking for? Maybe I, maybe I'm not trying
to, you know, get away from something. Maybe I'm just trying to, there's an emotion I'm
after and I, you know, maybe I feel like it's in that, that glass of wine or that, or that,
you know, Milfaiovany or something like that. So, it's very much emotion based rather than
behaviour based. That said, that said, I mean, we work, we work towards an actual break from
alcohol in order for the alcohol to leave your system and to do life, to do things,
to do feelings without a drink. And that's where, again, you know, the experimental part
of it comes in again, it's like experimenting with those situations where you'd normally
be first at the bar ordering a cocktail. What are you going to do now? You know, how are
you going to, how are you going to handle that situation with people who are going to
be there going, you know, what do you want to drink? You're not drinking? Why? You know.
So it's all very, you know, getting out there and doing it. You know. Yeah, definitely.
I mean, I think you can imagine a little bit, or everyone can sympathise a little bit with
the, with the social part of it, like everyone can understand a little bit like the social
pressure that is always there. That's very easy to understand. But how much of this process
is also like the alcohol being inside of your body still? Like how much of the detox part
of it and your body getting used to not having that substance anymore? Because that's also
like the abstinence, no, a little bit like when with the symptoms of living any other
drug, there is a lot of talk about how your body processes the living of that substance
through some time. What are the steps with alcohol? What is the most common thing that
you see in there? Yeah. Well, you know, alcohol use is like it's a whole big spectrum. So
you'll have the, you know, tea totaller and the like, you know, champagne at Christmas
people on this end. And then the people who are like physically, like chemically addicted
to alcohol on the other end, who need medical help and medical supervision, and for whom
it's actually extremely dangerous just to go cold turkey like that. And then, you know,
on either, in between those two ends of the spectrum, there's sort of, you know, everybody,
everybody else who's a regular issue drinker. And so it will, it takes, if you're like a
fairly regular drinker, it takes like seven days for, so they, the medical people say,
takes seven days for alcohol to actually fully leave your system. And so the thing about,
about alcohol and it being a drug is that the way your brain and your body works is
that it's expecting it. So if you, if you drink regularly, your body's reaction to alcohol,
like sort of kicks off before you've even had that, before you even had that glass. It's
like, that's like what we were talking about, you know, 5pm on a Friday, your brain is going,
come on lads, here we go, come on, come on, and sees the, and sees the bottle of beer
or the glass of wine or here's that, you know, pop. And then it gets, it already gets that
little, you know, dopamine hit and off you go, you know, party central, way off you go,
for the glass of wine. So when you don't give it that, it feels extremely uncomfortable.
And you know, you look at the clock and it's 5pm on a Friday and your brain will have already
have like, given you a little taster of what's to come, even though you've decided it's not
coming. And so you have that, that sort of hunt for the homeostasis, your body's always
trying to level out these things. So when you get a boost of like an unnatural boost, shall
we say, or an unsustainable boost of something like dopamine, it's going to release something
on the other end to like bring you down a bit so that you're on that, so you're more
level. And so that's why it feels so uncomfortable for the first, yeah, for the first, however
long it's going to take, they're probably a little bit different. And so that's the sort
of your brain part. And then your body as well is, when you start drinking, your body
stops, you know, sort of like digesting food and, you know, doing other things to focus
on eliminating the alcohol. So your body's just, it's just going, once you stop putting
it in, it's just going to go full whack to clean out whatever is left in your system.
And so people, you can start sweating a lot, you can start, you know, maybe not smelling
like a rose, things like that. And, you know, having like, wanting all the sugar, you know,
things like that, looking for, looking for the dopamine and all that. Yeah. And looking
for all the sugar that's in the alcohol and, you know, so it can feel like physically a
little, yeah, a little bit uncomfortable. But then again, depends, depends how you look
at it. If you look at it as your amazing bod, you know, doing its thing and like detoxing
you, then it doesn't feel so uncomfortable, you know. But, but I would say anybody that
who is worried about how much alcohol they're drinking, that they really, like, say to your
doctor, "I've been drinking, but I'm now going to go on a, I'm going on a detox. I just want
to check, I just want to make sure, is there something I should do?" Apart from obviously
drinking lots and lots of water, getting lots of sleep, eating lots of protein. Because
a coach isn't, isn't, you know, a medical professional. So it's always important to
check with your doctor. Yeah. Makes sense. Makes a lot of sense. I mean, I suppose. At
the end it's a whole medical, mental and body process. It's good that at least people know
how to inform someone. And I will ask you a couple of questions more before we finish
the episode, if that's okay. The first one, it's like, what is the, like, when, like,
it's the goal with everyone that you coach, it's quitting a hundred percent. Or do you
have people who are coming just to reduce their habits, for example, or arriving to
a level that they feel comfortable again? Where is the spectrum? I don't know how to say it.
It's very interesting. Yeah. It's very interesting. It's like I myself never intended to stop
drinking. I only ever went down that whole, you know, sober curious road looking to reduce
my drinking. There was, cause in my mind there was no way I was going to never have wine
again, which is not something I say, but it's like, I lost completely lost the desire to
drink. And when people come talk to me, it is extremely rare that somebody says, right,
that's it, I'm done. I do not want to drink again. I'm fed up with the whole thing. It's
always, almost always to like take a break from drinking or to reduce so that after the
break, they go back to sort of an inverted commas normal, a normal drinking because we
have this sort of, you know, I guess traditional view of like the good drinker, the normal
drinker, like the bad drinker who can't control themselves and things like that. So yeah.
So it's, it's rare that someone will say, I want, I've never drank. I want you to help
me to never drink again. It's always to, to moderate, but that, and that is exactly why,
like of course, because we believe so firmly that alcohol has its place in our life and
it has an important place in our life. You know? So of course, and until you like unpack
that a little bit and ask yourself a few questions and like, start looking at, at how it became
so important for you, apart from the, you know, the physical aspect of it. Then yeah,
you'll still want to go back to doing that, doing that thing that you don't want to do,
but you still want to do. Then in that sense, like to complete this question, like how,
how many of the people that you coach really like, okay, enter it, they enter through with
the idea of reducing and then saying, okay, whatever. I will just, I want just a break,
whatever. How many of these people, it's just like finishing the three months or the 12 weeks
and saying, okay, I'm not, I'm not drinking again. Is it, is it the common thing that they
arrive when they complete the whole thing and then people doesn't drink anymore in their
lives? It is, but I'll just say that that's another thing you see that we have, that we,
that we think in our society is that if alcohol is like a problem in inverted commas, you
either, you have to not ever drink again. You have to fix that problem by, by not ever
drinking again. And so like words like, you know, forever and never drinking again, and
like totally sober and teetotal and whatever those expressions are can be, can be sometimes
counterproductive because it's putting so much pressure on yourself to not do that ever
again. And if you do, then you're a failure. You've messed the whole thing up. You have
to start all over again, which is totally not true. You don't have to start all over
again. If you, you know, take everything you've learned with you and you just, you know, again,
with the curiosity and the experimental mindset, look at what happened, how you felt, and you
know, and why you really had that drink. So it's, it's really again, not about the behavior,
it's about how you feel, you know? So, I mean, I have no desire to have a drink. So I know
I'm not going to have a drink next weekend, even if I'm at the biggest party and someone,
you know, I don't know, shoves a 2003 Malbec in my face or something. I, you know, I have
no, there's no interest. So the, the, like the whole process is working towards what
works for you and what makes you feel the best. If that's saying, I'm never drinking
again, that's it. I'm sober in vertigo, then that works for you, then that's great. If
saying I'm on a break and I'm just going to see how this break goes, if that works for
you and makes you feel confident and makes you feel, you know, bien dans tes baskets,
as they say, you know, then that's what works for you. So it's not, it's really like, yeah,
after you've had a break, like a decent break, like a month for example, and you've been
through situations, excuse me, where you thought a drink is absolute, that you couldn't do
that without a drink, excuse me, like a party or a wedding or a funeral or something, you
know, and you've done it and you've built that confidence, then you go on to the next
thing. You're like, maybe I can do this without a drink as well. You don't, you know, so.
You did it. The moment I did it, no, I suppose it's also like, okay, and nothing happened.
It's still like a real comfort. Yeah, so I would just say that for closing the episode,
if you want to use the platform, of course, to just remember your social media attack,
but also if you have any product coming or any workshop that you're doing soon, anything
that it's in the horizon that you want to use the platform to, to, to, yes, yeah, to
promote a little bit.
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Well, I'm on Instagram at @louzdebouz with Suze. Susan Harkson is
my name. And I, I would invite anybody to sign up for my newsletter. And I, so I send
that out about once a month with like any, like info on, on anything that's coming up
and just general, like, you know, info, fun facts and stories. And I, on my website, you
can download a free video course to help you start thinking about all this stuff without
having to quit drinking, just, you know, get into that frame of mind of like asking, asking
some questions and I have some prompts and some, some questions you can ask yourself.
So feel free to sign up for that and also feel free to book a call with me. You can
have a free call for an hour with me and chat about it, ask questions and, and even just,
yeah, have a chat. Perfect. Thank you so much again, Susan, for the time and for explaining
your experience, but also like, like your teams and, and, and what you are doing with,
with, with coaching people. I think it, it will be really helpful for all of those who
want to take a break or change or quit 100%. So hope that some listeners will contact you
if they are in this, in this moment in their lives and they feel like this. So yeah, thanks
again. Thank you so much for the episode. Well, thanks a million. Thanks, it's been
lovely to chat. This is Expat Experts. Support this podcast by listening us in Potamu and
subscribe in Spotify and YouTube.
(upbeat music)