DedicatedDevoted
The Multiplicative Effect of Marriage: The Joys, Challenges, and the Power of Love
What if marriage could multiply the joys of life and make you stronger as a couple? Celebrate our 19-year anniversary with us as we take you through the wonders and challenges of marriage. We blend humor and heartfelt moments, sparking insights about how being 'one flesh' as described in the Bible has enriched our journey together. From iconic quotes of "The Princess Bride" to the unwavering dedication mirrored in our wedding vows, we recount how we've tackled unforeseen challenges and cherished each other through better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health.
Join us as we explore the dynamics of cherishing a partner in a non-possessive way, squashing societal myths about marriage. We'll share personal anecdotes about meeting each other, emphasizing the importance of men feeling needed and how our union has amplified our achievements—from raising children to building wealth and health. This episode celebrates the multiplicative power of marriage, revealing how it can lead to greater outcomes than what we could achieve alone.
Reflecting on personal stories, we also discuss the significance of shared values and beliefs, and how differences can either complicate or strengthen a marriage. From navigating the low points to celebrating the memorable highs, we share heartfelt advice about patience, perspective, and prioritizing our relationship over external distractions. And don't miss our fun recount of a serendipitous honeymoon upgrade to a presidential suite! Through laughter, tears, and unwavering devotion, we share lessons learned over nearly two decades, hoping to inspire and uplift your own journey.
What if marriage could multiply the joys of life and make you stronger as a couple? Celebrate our 19-year anniversary with us as we take you through the wonders and challenges of marriage. We blend humor and heartfelt moments, sparking insights about how being 'one flesh' as described in the Bible has enriched our journey together. From iconic quotes of "The Princess Bride" to the unwavering dedication mirrored in our wedding vows, we recount how we've tackled unforeseen challenges and cherished each other through better or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health.
Join us as we explore the dynamics of cherishing a partner in a non-possessive way, squashing societal myths about marriage. We'll share personal anecdotes about meeting each other, emphasizing the importance of men feeling needed and how our union has amplified our achievements—from raising children to building wealth and health. This episode celebrates the multiplicative power of marriage, revealing how it can lead to greater outcomes than what we could achieve alone.
Reflecting on personal stories, we also discuss the significance of shared values and beliefs, and how differences can either complicate or strengthen a marriage. From navigating the low points to celebrating the memorable highs, we share heartfelt advice about patience, perspective, and prioritizing our relationship over external distractions. And don't miss our fun recount of a serendipitous honeymoon upgrade to a presidential suite! Through laughter, tears, and unwavering devotion, we share lessons learned over nearly two decades, hoping to inspire and uplift your own journey.
Hello and welcome to Dedicated Devoted. I'm your host, Jared Kolenbell.
Speaker 1:And I'm your co-host, Cora Kolenbell.
Speaker 2:Today's episode is the multiplicative effect of marriage. Today, I'm pleased to be joined by my best friend, partner in life and wife, cora. This episode is all about how marriage is intended to multiply all good things for our benefit. Today is actually our 19 year marriage anniversary and I want to dedicate and devote this episode to my better half. 19 years is not too long. 19 years is a mere blink when you're with your truest friend. I hope to have many more years with you. Happy anniversary, my best friend. I love you. It's actually a text I sent you this morning Pure gold, right. Thanks. Okay, I'm going to write you a better poem, okay. Okay, before we unpack today's episode, just a reminder of how you can support the podcast. If you haven't already, please check out dedicated devotedcom to learn more about the podcast and some awesome ways you can support us and how to live a dedicated, devoted life. Now onto the show my wedge. My wedge is what brings us together today. Does that sound familiar to you, cora?
Speaker 1:I've actually never really watched that.
Speaker 2:Oh, that saddens me. Yeah, this is actually from the Princess's Bride and it's when the clergyman officiates the wedding of Buttercup and Humperdinck. Just so you remember, buttercup is the princess and Humperdinck is pretty much the evil prince guy.
Speaker 1:I never watched it, but I remember this happening for a friend, my wedge.
Speaker 2:My wedge is what brings us together today, and that's actually the topic right the multiplicative effect of marriage, and I want to dive a little bit deeper into that. Here's another one for you. Do I love you, my God? If your love were a grain of sand, mine would be a universe of beaches. Sound familiar? No, not at all.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you obviously don't know, the princess bride no, this is a said by Wesley to buttercup when they reunite after being separated for years. One of the best movies out there and obviously not one of the best templates for marriage, but nonetheless I really think that this really romantic, sweet quote is just. I think it's one of the best. Do I love you, my God? If you were a grain of sand, mine would be a universe of beaches, beautiful, but today, mawage is what brings us together today.
Speaker 2:So today is what for us 19 years and it's been a blissful, pleasant, amazing 19 years correct.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that was a very strong affirmation of 19 blissful years of marriage. But really, in all sincerity, it was 19 years ago as of today that you and I became what the Bible would term to be one flesh, and for me I can affirmatively say, yeah, it has not been blissful, amazing and nothing but pure joy, but it has been a marriage, and marriage is what brings us here today, and I do think, um, in the words of Wesley, I do think that, uh, if your love were a grain of sand, mine would be a universe of beaches. Can I, can I take that from him?
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's what I should have sent you in a text message today. So marriage is what brings us together today, and it was 19 years ago that I married you, and I just want to say you look as beautiful today as you did 19 years ago. Thank you. She's smiling deeply.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Real quick. I want to give a good template of what marriage really is about. And so, from a biblical precept, we know that the Bible says this in Mark, chapter 10. But from the beginning of creation, god made them male and female. Therefore, a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh, so they are no longer two, but one flesh. What, therefore? God has joined together? Let no man separate. I really like that verse, or verses, because it demonstrates the template of how two people become one.
Speaker 2:Me getting married 19 years ago was a very. It was a very desirous thing that I had, but it was definitely a very. It was a very desirous thing that I had, but it was definitely a very challenging time, and to try to bring two things that are very different but trying to make them complementary, is a big undertaking. And so we can see from the biblical precept that two are supposed to become one. And so, 19 years ago, I took my wedding vows and I went ahead and I snipped this, because it really is sort of the template for how things work when it comes to modern day vows, especially in a Western perspective.
Speaker 2:I'll go ahead and I'll read these off, because this is really what I recall actually going through, albeit with much more tears. So it went a little something like this I, jared, take thee Cora to be my wedded wife, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish till death. Do us part. And as I went ahead and took those vows, I recall something I didn't really think about some of the negative perspectives that these vows actually incorporate the sickness part, the death part. And you and I actually have a really funny agreement. Do you remember our agreement If one of us is passing away, do you recall that?
Speaker 1:I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2:What's that agreement?
Speaker 1:are you talking about the one where it's like just move on? No are you talking about then? It's the one oh no, no, well, you didn't specify yeah, it's explain the story to that one real quick do I have to explain the story?
Speaker 2:well, you don't have to explain, but you might be able to provide a little color to it.
Speaker 1:Okay. So we had some neighbors Okay, They'd been married forever and the wife was passing away. And they told us that the son or daughter came over, said my mom and dad, or my mom's not doing too well, she's going to pass away. So she passed away. We took food over to her house to just kind of help the family with food and I asked when the funeral was going to be. And she said well, we're kind of waiting for my dad. And I thought that doesn't really make much sense, why would you wait for him? And she said well, since my mom passed away, my dad stopped eating, so he's going to die in a few days. And you and I, when we heard that, we just thought to ourselves well, our agreement was after. That was if I die, if you die, I'm still going to eat. If I die, you're still going to eat. So our agreement was that we're not going to starve ourselves if one of us dies.
Speaker 2:We will still continue to eat. And we have many of those type of agreements in our marriage. We actually have one for getting tattoos right, and so we have a vow tattoo that has to be undertaken. If any of us decides to get a tattoo and it's sort of a, it's a fail safe.
Speaker 2:So none of us ever go down that path of getting something that we regret, but this one in particular, with eating, we both agreed if you get sick, or if I get sick, listen, go out, have a good time, eat as much as you can, enjoy life, do, do whatever you're supposed to be doing in this universe to ensure your happiness and make sure that you really enjoy the time that God gives you. And so I do recall that it was a really funny memory that both of you and I share, and I really cherish that one. And going back to some of these vows here you know we see reading it again to be wedded, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and health, to love and to cherish till death. Do us part. Which vow pops out the most to you and why?
Speaker 1:Probably for rich or for poor.
Speaker 2:Are you into the money?
Speaker 1:No, you like the money.
Speaker 2:well, it helps, it helps, okay, money, money is a tool, I agree, so that that one pops out to you the most. And why does that pop out to you the most?
Speaker 1:um, probably because I remember when we first got together, our first apartment was like 600 and some bucks. Actually, I think it was 500 and some bucks and that's all we could afford. And I remember when we wanted to like try to get a better place, it was going to be like 600 and some bucks and we're like, oh, I think we can afford that.
Speaker 2:It was an upgrade in life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it was like trying to really balance could we afford 600 bucks a month to pay for rent? And so I feel like that was definitely a poor time and obviously you know that can happen to anybody at any time in marriage. But I think it's interesting to kind of see, like just kind of where we've come.
Speaker 2:I would agree on that. I think God's been really gracious in our life. I would agree on that. I think God's been really gracious in our life, and what I can say is as two newlyweds two poor newlyweds we had so much love, so much love. It was available in an abundance right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we didn't have no money.
Speaker 2:Well, when you don't have money and all you have is love, I tell you what baby? That's not a bad thing, I don't know. It's good to start from somewhere and yeah, I mean that's a really good one Not having money. But I do recall you desired more and I desired more.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, of course I knew that it wasn't going to be like that forever. I was hoping my hope was not to be like that forever, but someday. It not be an issue forever, but someday it not be an issue.
Speaker 2:Well, it's hard because you can't guarantee anything, and in an ideal state, yeah, you know, perhaps things get better. But I would say that the multiplicative effect that I spoke of earlier is really about what a marriage does to the attributes that are within that marriage. I think your desire for success and my desire for success, brought together, really cultivated a mindset of, hey, we want to be successful, but we want to be successful together, and I think we've learned over the last 19 years that success really means doing it together but also ensuring that we're not sacrificing the things that are important, right, the things that are meaningful and the things that are eternal. And for me, I know that I do desire success, but it's taken some time, and I think this is an act of wisdom where you realize really what is important. And so, yeah, having money is a great thing. Obviously, loving money is not a great thing, but I don't think that you and I have a desire to want to have and to hold money. I know that we both have the same heart of wanting to be successful and to help others, and so I love the fact that in these vows, that's something that really popped out to you. For me, I'll share with you mine. It's the to have and to hold.
Speaker 2:I think we live in a culture in our day and age where to have something is very possessive, and so we can describe that as misogynistic. Or, you know, you might look at marriage, or society might look at marriage, or look down on marriage really and say, well, what is marriage really about? It seems more like it's all for the man and it's a power game and the woman's supposed to stay at home barefoot and pregnant. And really, for me, that's not what that vow meant. The vow of having and holding you really meant that God was going to give me somebody that I could cherish, and I desired that.
Speaker 2:I had a big gap in my life where I felt like something was truly missing, and so one of the things that really stands out in my mind is initially meeting you. And I needed somebody in my life, and you know, fortunately for me, I had God come into my life at the same time, but meeting you was really one of the monumental pinnacle moments of my life. You know I was. I was strolling in the mall with my, my beautiful do you remember what they were? Timberlands, my beautiful Timberlands and I could barely afford them. And I remember just desiring more out of life. And I saw you and you gazed at me and I gazed at you and you know, I strolled up in a really Rico Suave fashion and, uh, all of your, your compadres, scattered off, and it was just you and I locked eye to eye and then we started dancing in a circle. And then the light came down upon us and, oh, it was so romantic.
Speaker 1:Okay, now the real story.
Speaker 2:I don't even think those are Timberlands, to be honest. I think I got them at pick five and I saw you and you just looked absolutely gorgeous and I was instantly attracted to you and I made a beeline directly to you and I think from my recollection you said that I was a. You thought I was a. What?
Speaker 1:A little boy.
Speaker 2:A little boy? Yeah Right, and so youth is actually a great thing. I wasn't a little boy. You and I are on par in terms of age, right.
Speaker 2:Not that far, but having and holding that concept, I think, is very important to men. Men have a strong desire to feel needed and I think for them to I'm even going to use a strong word for them to possess something is super important because it gives them the opportunity to cultivate, to build, to develop. And men are really, they're, wired that way. They want to have something in their lives, they want to have something that they can pour into. You know, out of 19 years of marriage, we've had three amazing kids born, and they provide meaning to my life because it's something that I can cultivate and something I can build and something I can pour into. And so for me, that really is one of those vows that I look back at and I go, wow, that's a really strong one for me, because poverty or riches, they can come and go.
Speaker 2:Death nobody is guaranteed life. So death is just a certainty, it's just a matter of when. But the fact that God would give me a woman and, as the Bible really kind of specifies, it's two people becoming one and I think that that's a super beautiful thought in my mind. So 19 years ago, you and I, we made the plunge and we were quite young, quite in love, and I think that we had our fair share of troubles. And we're 19 years in to our marriage now and I think I see on the horizon a lot of really great things not as if there wasn't a lot of really great things back then, but a lot of really great things out of our marriage. Quick question what does marriage multiply? So in our marriage, what do you think marriage multiplies? You know things such as happiness, wealth, health, love, life, longevity. What's your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1:What do you mean exactly by multiply?
Speaker 2:So I think you and I, when we do things together, it's greater than if I were to do something on my own. I do think that I could have made money if I went out on my own. I look back at my former years, but I think my success in terms of education and money and, by the way, I'm not touting that I have a lot of money, I'm saying that what I've been given by the Lord, I think, has been amplified that's probably the best word you and I putting our energy and synergy together, has yielded way greater results that you can ever imagine. So I believe that marriage does multiply the attributes that are naturally existing within a marriage, and I think that there are things that you and I can look back at, such as wealth.
Speaker 2:Wealth is a great example when it comes to parenting with kids. We know that it's a much harder and this is me as a kid who grew up in a single family household it's much harder as a single parent to parent. So you have a multiplicative effect when it comes to parenting your kids. So what does marriage really multiply in your opinion, or does it multiply anything? Or is marriage just simply this archaic institution?
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's different for everybody. I don't think it's the same for everyone, but I would have to say for me, um, in a lot of ways it's multiplied happiness, but I don't think that's true for everybody.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a really great one. I'm thinking in terms of ratios. Would you say that there's more happiness than there is disappointment or sadness?
Speaker 1:With marriage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for most people For you and I.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, definitely more happiness. I think that I think it's like everything in life. Like, I think it's like everything in life, I think that we tend to focus on the negative and the negative is just a small percentage of what happens in life. I think a lot of great things happen to us daily, but a lot of times we decide to focus on the negative stuff and that just brings down the whole day, makes everything seem terrible. But I think marriage is the same way. You have small little things that happen throughout your marriage and it makes things seem just terrible or not worth it. But in the long run you don't really think about all the good things that happen too, and I think those equal way more than a lot of the little negative stuff do. But we don't tend to focus on the positive stuff, and that's not just with marriage, that's with everything in life, you know. So.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's really interesting because I think in our Western culture right now we really equate pleasure to happiness, and happiness really is more a state of enduring action and I think the marriage, the institution of marriage, really demonstrates that you got to work for those things Like happiness is not an end result, it's really sort of like I want to say it's a verb. It's something that we're actively doing and I think in our culture there's a lot of younger individuals with the up and coming generations that think no, happiness really does come from pleasure, and they're definitely two different things. And I would agree with you. I think that throughout our marriage there's been multiple trials, there's been multiple things that you and I have gone through, but enduring and persevering and pushing through those things I really do think has reinforced our love for one another and our ability to succeed together has made me a lot more, a lot more resilient and it gives me a lot of strength and it gives me a lot, of, a lot of targeted objectives to try to work through.
Speaker 2:And so, for me, I do focus on the negative, right. I'm naturally not a positive person. I'm not an optimist. I'm a pessimist by nature, which is okay. It's just the way that I've been designed, and so, looking at this, I do think that when I reflect on the past, I see a lot of things that are negative, but there's been so much beauty that has come through those things. We've had a lot of things that are negative, but there's been so much beauty that has come through those things.
Speaker 2:We've had a lot of circumstances that you and I have both been through personally, and the beauty to that is persevering through them together has definitely multiplied the outcome. And when I say multiply the outcome, I mean really more than tenfold. I look at all the various times that we've had to move and the jobs that I've been in and throughout our marriage. I've had a few here and there, but I look at it and I go, yeah, some of those were really trying times, but the outcome has definitely been a lot more winsome than I could ever imagine. So I got another question for you. This is probably more of a contentious one, especially in our day and age. Who do you think marriage is for and who do you think it's not for?
Speaker 1:If I had to say who it's not for, I would say it's not for people who don't want to be married, if you just do not want to be married.
Speaker 2:That's much different, though, than what our culture says right, or even within the church. I think that, as a Christian, we see that a lot of people desire, and they look down on those who aren't married, even though perhaps it's not something that they're called to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just feel like if you really don't want it, you shouldn't do it.
Speaker 2:So if you don't want it, you shouldn't do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if it's just like I don't, I don't want to be married, then it doesn't seem like it's the right thing to do is just get married, because people are saying get married, it's the right thing to do.
Speaker 2:On the same note, I've seen people who jump into relationships simply because they say they don't want to be alone. Or they get married just because they don't want to be alone. That be alone, or they get married just because they don't want to be alone. That's what I'm saying. Not to do it. And what would you have? What sort of advice would you share with somebody that says I'm just lonely and the person that I'm with is not even compatible, but I'm just lonely and I want to be married, so I'm not lonely.
Speaker 1:I think that that's okay, but I think the person that you're going to get married to has to know that too.
Speaker 1:Maybe they feel the same way, maybe it's not about, it's just about being together, but not necessarily your standard marriage, if that makes sense. I mean, you're still doing all the paperwork and all that stuff to be legal. But I think that there has to be a mutual agreement. That's like I don't want to be lonely, you don't want to be lonely, let's do this. But if it's like I don't want to be lonely, so I'm just going to marry anybody and that person thinks you truly just want to be with them, I don't think that that's acceptable. I think it should be very mutual between both of you that. But really I don't think you need to be married Even if you feel lonely, like I think you could easily have someone that you're with constantly and not even add marriage. I don't see most people who say that they don't want to be lonely think that they have to be married to not feel that way, because I think you could easily have someone that you enjoy and spend time with and not be married.
Speaker 2:You know, it never ceases to amaze me how we're designed as social creatures and people just want to be in the company of other people. There's obviously more benefits in a marriage than just company and I definitely agree with you that there is a sense of belonging. You go back to the vows of wanting and holding and having, and I think that there are some people who they're desirous of a marriage because they want to have the physical connection right and obviously sex is a huge part of marriage and that's governed by the institution of marriage and God says that it's good, right. Procreation and recreation these are things that are just fine. You also have things like having partnership and companionship, and I think you're speaking to a couple of different audiences here, which is really interesting. You, when I think of who marriage is for and who marriage is not for, I reflect back on you and I getting married and I think that I really just wanted to have somebody to hold and to be there and to love and to care for and, like my, my desires as a man was to be able to go out and defend and to fight and to do and to and to care for, and so I look at that and I go. You know that that was my perspective. And obviously there's the physical companionship that the Bible makes very clear is perfectly acceptable and that's part of the institution of marriage. So you have your younger individuals who marriage is a very perfectly acceptable outcome for those who, as the Apostle Paul puts it, they should not be burning in the flesh. Right, if you want to have a physical, intimate sexual connection with another human, the Bible says you can do that as much as you want within the confines of marriage. One man, one woman, and so I think that that's one audience that you're definitely speaking to one man, one woman, and so I think that that's one audience that you're definitely speaking to. It's interesting what you're saying, because I think the other audiences those who are, let's call them, senior saints, senior sneakers, upper age, some of those who just want companions, right Companionship, and I think that that is definitely one that it's for.
Speaker 2:Now I want to speak pretty strongly on who it's not for. I don't think marriage is for those who feel they have to do it, and that's what you're saying, that they're compelled to do it, that they're lonely. I do recall a scenario where I was talking with somebody who said that they were in a relationship that was not kosher, it was borderline, abusive, and it was because they didn't want to be alone, and I don't think that that's what God calls us to. I think God calls us to fruitful relationships, whether it's within the confines of a marriage or if it's friendships, and I think anything that really is demoralizing or degrading, and you're simply participating so that you're not lonely. You're not called to that, and so I do think that marriage is for some people, but I also think it's definitely not for some people, and the Bible actually spells it out very clearly with celibacy is it's actually easier?
Speaker 2:Marriages are not easy. Yeah, there's some great benefits there, but those are just a small fraction of the marriage, and so most certainly there's some people that it's for throughout different ages and generations, and some it's not for, and there's good reasons and there's not good reasons. Another question for you is does marriage equate to happiness?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:You jumped to that very quickly. Why would you say no so bluntly?
Speaker 1:You jumped to that very quickly. Why did you say no so bluntly? Because it doesn't. Any relationship doesn't equal happiness.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:That could be friendships, that could be with anything, just it definitely doesn't equal happiness.
Speaker 1:So for those folks who are listening, right now who think that marriage is going to equate to happiness. Would you have any advice for them? Um, I don't know if I'd say necessarily have any any advice. I would just say that it definitely doesn't equal happiness. I think it depends on, um, I guess it's like saying that it's going to solve all your problems. It definitely doesn't solve any problems. So if you're happy and you love each other, like get married and maybe you'll be happy. But just to marry someone to be happy, that's not going to happen. Like it definitely doesn't equal happiness.
Speaker 2:There's a reason why they have the term the honeymoon period Because everything sunsets at a certain point in time, and I think the multiplicative effect in marriage actually exists in a multitude of dimensions, including unhappiness.
Speaker 2:You mentioned it and I think that that's a really important thing is if you're in a marriage and you're expecting happiness and there's not the attributes and the work that each individual is putting in, it can actually multiply your unhappiness. I think we all have that friend who jumped into a marriage or some who didn't even go that route, but they went into a bad relationship and perhaps you know they're having to deal with the outcomes of having a child out of wedlock or they're going through divorce and we can see that marriage can actually multiply the ugliness that can exist within a marriage. And so I think that that's a really great profound thought on your part. Is having the same values and beliefs necessary in a marriage, in your opinion?
Speaker 1:I would have to say, for the most part yes, but not necessarily.
Speaker 2:Okay, and what if the values and beliefs vary widely, like two different religions?
Speaker 1:I think that makes it really complicated. So when it comes to like religious stuff or like deep beliefs, I think it's better if you're on the same page. But if it's just like what style you should wear, that kind of thing or some of those kind of beliefs you might have on, maybe even how to bring up the kids, I think some things you can kind of work through. You don't have to always be on the same page with everything in life. But I think when it comes to some of that really deep stuff like religion, it's a lot easier if you believe the same.
Speaker 1:I think you could still your marriage could still make it. If easier if you believe the same, I think you could still your marriage could still make it if you don't believe the same. But I've just seen that a lot of times in marriages they don't work out very well or they don't talk about it. So a lot of times you know the wife might believe different than the husband and it's like he goes and does his thing and I go and do my thing, and that's just how they live their lives is just doing things separately and that's the way that they're not going to fight throughout marriages. You do your thing and I'll do my thing.
Speaker 2:One of the things that comes to mind as you describe that Cora, is how the multiplicative effect can actually exist if you're sort of living let's call it separated lives, your belief system, it works, your marriage works because you're willing to separate and differentiate your beliefs from your spouse's, and so it works. But I think that you're losing the opportunity to make that union of marriage stronger and a bigger multiplier. I think that that's where, in our culture, we think that these differences can jive together, they can exist together, but it actually complicates it and it makes it much, much worse. You know, there's that, uh, there's that biblical idea of being on equally yoked, and so you're not neck and neck with your spouse in terms of understanding where you're going, what you believe, how you're going to work, and I think in our marriage we've seen a lot of this, where we are sometimes on different pages.
Speaker 1:Oh, totally.
Speaker 2:And sometimes we think we're on the exact same page and then it's like whoa, we're on completely different pages. Now I would call those, probably in terms of our marriage, those are going to be more surface level issues.
Speaker 2:I think the deep belief systems you and I we agree on, and there's some surface level issues that we don't, but we're willing to talk through it and work through things, and that's really healthy Now, having the same values and beliefs. In my opinion, I agree with you, it does make it a lot easier if you're on the same page. And I actually have a few friends who are near and dear to me, and I do see the differences in how each parent operates. And you know, without getting into deep examples, I have a very close friend who I feel for very deeply, because this individual has a great heart and every act that he undertakes seems to be for the betterment of others.
Speaker 2:But the spouse is quite opposite, and so I do think that this is a necessity, and I'm not even saying from a Christian perspective. Like you know, christian has to marry Christian, I mean from any deep religious belief system or any deep belief system. We'll call it a worldview. I think that they do need to be on par and in connection with one another or you really do lose that multiplicative effect. Now, what is your greatest moment in your marriage and what's your lowest? And I know that that's a really loaded and hard question, but does anything come to mind with your greatest moment and then your lowest?
Speaker 1:Greatest moment probably having kids.
Speaker 2:Anyone in particular Can't say that huh.
Speaker 1:No, I actually can, because I remember them all being really great. But I have to say I think this question might actually the answer might be both, because the greatest moment was probably or I should say, kid, having a kid was probably Parker, because it was probably one of the greatest moments, but also probably maybe one of my lowest moments too.
Speaker 2:And can you describe why? It was one of your greatest and, in the same side of the coin, it was also one of your lowest.
Speaker 1:Well, I think the greatest was like just knowing I was going to have a son. I thought that was exciting because I always saw myself just having like three girls, because I always thought I was going to have three kids and I did, obviously, but I knew he was going to be my last kid, so the fact that it was a boy was really exciting. Last kid. So the fact that it was a boy was really exciting. And, um, the lowest was probably the uncertainty of his condition. So the fact that he was born without his left hand and not knowing that the whole pregnancy was, I mean, the pregnancy was fine, so I felt great, but for his birth, him coming out and missing a whole hand, was very, very sad. So for me it was like devastating.
Speaker 1:It was like one of the worst things I think that I felt could have happened to me. It at least felt like that at the time. It felt like one of my lowest moments because I just thought, you know, I was doing everything right and then for him to be born like that and to not know like and not know his condition, not know what happened to his hand and having ultrasounds and everything looks great and just knowing you're going to have the perfect kid, Then to find out you know his whole hand's missing. I think that was just really hard. It was really hard to. I don't think I've ever actually felt like that Just not knowing what the future was going to hold for him and how his life was going to be and if there was any way that I could have changed it for him, and just just not knowing, like you said, if he was going to even have a good life at all. You know was probably one of the lowest moments for me.
Speaker 2:And I do remember that vividly as well. And I go back to the vow of for better and for worse, and I'm a traditional fixer. I fix things. I break a lot of things, which is why I fix things, but I'm a traditional fixer. And I remember Parker's we call it his special hand, but Parker has a. He's defined as a congenital amputee, I believe. Congenital transverse deficiency is the official term that he was born with, which means he is missing a limb, and that was his hand. And so, although we did all the right things and we saw all the right doctors initially, it turns out that it was just kind of not seen, and so Parker's birth was a huge surprise to you and I, and I do think that you and I were in that for worse arena, and for me I would probably say that that was one of my lowest moments, because I've had some pretty low moments, but in terms of that one, the first thing that my brain could not comprehend and it couldn't reconcile was I couldn't fix it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's exactly how I felt too, like there was nothing I could do at that moment to fix it.
Speaker 2:And it's weird to think that we thought something had to be fixed.
Speaker 2:Like hindsight really is 20-20. We look back and we say he really didn't need fixing, that's just the way that the Lord had made him. But we were trying to reconcile in our minds what do we do? And I do recall that it was hard because all of the births of our previous children had a pattern and his was much different. It was very ominous. They passed the baby off to us All the doctors walked out backwards, they gave us no information and I think we can explore this on another future episode.
Speaker 2:But most certainly that was one that really hit home in my heart, where I just felt really low and I felt bitter, and I'll be very specific with that. I felt bitter and I felt bitter at others. I tried to find fault and I was looking for it and who could I blame? And I felt bitter at God. I remember shaking my fist at God and not understanding how I could be one of his people, one of his servants, and this could happen. And I remember just looking for some sort of way that I could demonstrate that you know what had happened was truly wrong.
Speaker 2:And I recall a lot of reconciliation and peace coming within a very short period of time and, like I said we can talk about this on another episode, but that was one of my hardest moments, also in my marriage. I'll say that the greatest moment in my marriage was certainly getting married to you. I recall that I wrote you a beautiful poem called my Angel from Above, and it seems so cheesy now that I say it out loud. I thought I was a poet, but I really wasn't a poet. But I remember writing you that poem and I remember reading it to you during our wedding. I didn't, I didn't cry a single time, I was just rock solid. You know statue um, no emotion. Do you remember that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's the opposite. You cried the whole time. You wouldn't stop crying. It could have been the opposite. I think I even had to tell you to stop crying.
Speaker 2:Well, I do remember that that was, uh, that was my day, where I was. I was being blessed with a woman that I could have and I could hold, and you just looked amazing and you looked beautiful. And I remember you walking down the aisle and I was just thinking, wow, she's going to be mine to have and to hold. And little did I know that your dad. You want to share that story of your dad walking you down the aisle and him giving you the greatest advice of your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean basically before we went down he said if you want to change your mind, I'll go with you. Right now we can both just get out of here. And I told my dad dad walking down the aisle, be quiet. So he was totally encouraging me to like just go.
Speaker 2:So you know, I think there's an old terminology for what your dad was doing. I think it's called selling the cow. And so he's really, you know, playing both sides and trying to make sure that we all feel like we're getting a good deal on that. But, yeah, um, god bless your dad for really trying to push you out of that. But, um, you came down that aisle and I remember that being one of the greatest moments of my life.
Speaker 2:I think one of the second greatest moments in my marriage was the birth of my first child. That was really eye-opening because you don't know what to do, and our eldest was a very long, drawn-out process with her birth that lasted 32-some hours. I remember you being in a lot of pain, but I just remember how cautious I was. We had got everything ready, we were ready to go. It took forever, and I remember you being in a lot of pain, but I just remember how cautious I was. We had got everything ready, we were ready to go. It took forever. And I remember the first kid.
Speaker 2:I would say that that was one of the most memorable. The most enjoyable had to have been our second kid with with Elsie, because we had a British nurse. I think she was British. She might've been Irish, but it's so pleasant because at that time we had music and we were able to put that on and you know, it was like the kid was, you know, not there and then she was here and it was just very smooth. But memorable most certainly was my first one. I remember bringing you up to the Sandia Peak mountains and you, just you were not happy, you were very pregnant, I was videotaping, I was excited because I had my first camera and you were just very upset, but Charlize was in there. So it was definitely one of my greatest moments as well. So I have many, many that I could expand on. If you could go back in time and give yourself any advice in how to have a thriving marriage, what would it be? Can I go first on this one?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you go first. You have something to say.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, this is advice that I've received from my in-laws to be patient. It's almost as if we think everything is going to matter and there's so many things that don't matter. There's things that we don't get, and there's cars that get dinged and there's promotions that were passed up on and things just happen. And I think patience has been. You know, things just happen and I think patience has been it's. I have a saying for it. I have an enormous amount of patience, but I have bad execution. That's really just a way of saying I have very little patience and I think and I still work on that, but I think, within the confines of our marriage, it's something that I really have, have tried to work on, and I I know I'm not perfect, um, but that's something that I think if I could go back to a younger Jared, I'd say hey, you know, don't, don't stress, uh, don't stress the things that you think are meaningful, because eventually you're going to realize that they're not that meaningful. So patience is a big one.
Speaker 1:I think I'm getting there, though, already in life, and I could kind of see this popping through where things that are small don't matter to me as much, so the next day I'm over it. You know, I don't feel like a lot of the stuff is worth it and it's very minimal, but I remember back in the day like something so minimal could lead to two, three days of not talking. Before we had kids.
Speaker 1:That was like a normal thing, and it was something so stupid Like I thought you were going to take out the trash. Okay, I'm not talking to you for two days, three days, you know, it was so minimal. And now it's like I mean, you could be angry with each other if you want, but it's not really even worth it because it's just stupid stuff. It's not even serious stuff to not speak to each other about.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that's the multiplicative effect coming into my purview again. Where your emotional baggage?
Speaker 1:is amplified.
Speaker 2:And unfortunately I had much more than you did. But I would say in in all honesty, we both have, and and always will have, emotional baggage, because we're humans. I obviously just had a much different upbringing, so mine was a little bit more weighty, if we want to call it that, and I agree with you. There's a lot of things that don't really matter, and I was thinking of that saying that came to my mind don't sweat the petty stuff and don't pet the sweaty stuff. It's just a really funny one, but there's such small things that we shouldn't worry about, and our problems do certainly get multiplied and amplified in a marriage, and I think that we have the ability to have the opposite effect for the things that are more positive. How do you prioritize your spouse over your kids and others, or do you?
Speaker 1:That just depends. That can be really hard, because for me my kids mean a lot to me.
Speaker 2:Can I give you an example real quick? So the other night I was at home and you came home and you just loved on the cat. You were giving her hundreds of kisses, hundreds of kisses, yeah, and I sat there waiting for mine.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you walked right past me. Now I would like to hear how do you prioritize your spouse over your kids and others, including the cat?
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, but the cat is so cute.
Speaker 2:She's cute, she's really cute.
Speaker 1:I get really excited to see her. So I do like giving her kisses and I don't know, just kissing a cat. It's fun, I enjoy that. So I think for me it's hard sometimes to prioritize you over the kids or others, because I spend so much time sometimes it feels like with my kids that, um, I think it's just a hard thing to do sometimes. So I don't think I always do prioritize spending time with you over spending time with the kids. I think spending time with the kids is a lot different because, I don't know, it just feels like the time we spend together is different than the time that you and I spend together.
Speaker 2:I would have to personally say that, for me, I've just absolutely enjoyed spending more time with you. It doesn't really matter what we do, I just. This hasn't always been a thing, but I think, as I've gotten older, I cherish the time that we have together, and I recall watching a video short the other day where there's an older couple and questions asked to them. You know what would, what would you, what'd you say to a younger couple that they they should do in order to have a successful marriage? And I think the response was spend as much time as you can together. And as I get older, I realize that. And so for me, first and foremost, I think the time that we have together is precious, and I would say date night most certainly. If you're listening and you're trying to figure out how to prioritize your spouse over all other things, just remember those kids did not come before your spouse. Your spouse was first, and you know there's a hierarchy it's God first and family after, and in that family hierarchy it goes parents and children. And I think that prioritizing your marriage is really important, which means you make the time, you set aside any resources that you might need in order for that time to be fruitful. One thing that I would love to do more and do better at is doing devotions together. We've tried, and sometimes it lasts a little bit long and other times it's like it's a forethought. But most certainly, spending time together and we're meaningful spending time in the word, that's super important.
Speaker 2:But I definitely think deprioritizing the other things is an active work that is required. I've I've been working on this for probably the past two years, which is telling people no, and it's a fine art to tell people no, we'll have to have a podcast on that another day. The fine art of telling people no, no, we'll have to have a podcast on that another day. The fine art of telling people no. And also saying yes when necessary.
Speaker 2:And so I think, prioritizing your spouse and this is me speaking as a man in our culture where it's very easy to have friends and to go hang out and to do things that are, you know, quote unquote hobbies I think deprioritizing all things that are not priority and then emphasizing those things, such as the marriage. That's a very important one, and I do think we have date night more often than we used to, and that is definitely the highlight, I think, of our marriages, when we get to have one-on-one time and we just get to talk life. That always brings a lot of joy to my heart. What are some acts of sacrifice that have made your marriage stronger?
Speaker 1:I probably think acts of sacrifice that I could think of more from the past than now is probably hanging out with friends. I think I used to have way more friends that I used to hang out with and spend more time with actual girlfriends, and I definitely don't do that as much anymore. So I know that that's one thing that I've definitely sacrificed. Um, obviously I'm a very social person so I like I like hanging out with people, so I think that's one. Um, I also think, like a lot of sacrifices that I've made are just anything that I feel like is something that you've wanted.
Speaker 2:So education job changes.
Speaker 1:You've done all that. I've, you know, put a lot of stuff that I've wanted to do on the back burner for things that you've wanted to do. So I feel like, in even staying home with kids, I feel like that's been a big sacrifice, because I've not always wanted to with kids. I feel like that's been a big sacrifice because I've not always wanted to. Um, I knew I always wanted to be a mom, but to stay at home all the time has not always been my, my wishes. So I know, to save money or whatever the case may be, to keep kids home, homeschool, all that stuff that has been things that I feel like I've really sacrificed so that the marriage, hopefully, could be stronger, because you've done some stuff that you've wanted to do. Yeah, that's all I could think of really right now.
Speaker 2:Well, first and foremost, I just want to say thank you for really enabling my success. I think that my education and I, you know I was a very uneducated individual and I was able to go to college what I would call later in life, but a lot of what you did enabled me to do that and I want to say thank you for that.
Speaker 2:I believe that you know, as we talked about the multiplicative effect, that really was kind of a I'm going to call myself a dumb kid a dumb kid being enabled by his, his very strong spouse, pushing and cheering and encouraging going through my educational path from my associates to my bachelor's to my master's was very hard and I remember it being very draining and being very lonely and you coming in and going, no, you can do it, babe, like keep going, keep going. And I remember it being very draining and being very lonely and you coming in going, no, you can do it, babe, like keep going, keep going. And I remember the feeling of getting the first degree and then you being by my side and you're like, yeah, you know, we can do it. And you were just an absolute cheerleader in that. And I look back and I go, I mean, I definitely was not on the trajectory of getting any education, of having a professional career or even having knowledge, of having a professional career or even having knowledge.
Speaker 2:And I think that your sacrifice really did enable that and I want to say thank you.
Speaker 2:I think that that's been a huge demonstration of what marriage can really do, when you take two people who have common goals and maybe not even the knowledge or the resources, but you cobble together what you have and you push in the direction that you want to go, and that was definitely one that I think was enabled by you, and I definitely empathize with you wanting to be with your friends and sacrificing time. I think that was probably more in the lens of you know, as a man I always looked at your time being taken away from me as a detractor, and I never kind of understood that fine balance, and so it was really one of those things that I looked down on, and I think now you're definitely cultivating a really healthy balance and I've learned more as a mature man. Like these are good relationships for my wife to be able to engage in, because these are mine to now while she's doing what's making her happy and that makes me happy, and so I think that that's a very great demonstration of acts of service and sacrifice.
Speaker 2:So thank you for that. What are some of the ways that you show dedication and devotion to your spouse? Maybe it could be making a full breakfast in the morning and my pants are ironed and put up I'm just kidding, yeah.
Speaker 1:Um, dedication, devotion, I think. Even just working for me, um, I think that shows dedication, because I feel like we both know, like you know, I don't necessarily have to do that, but I think that that shows dedication, just being able to do something that's kind of helping, you know, to the um, I guess, helping the family. I think that's one way that I'm showing dedication, um, because I'm capable of doing that, you know. And devotion, I think, just being here. You know I'm here a lot, so it's really rare that when you get off work I'm gone doing something else.
Speaker 1:I'm out at the gym, I'm out with my friends, I'm out, you know, just doing whatever I want to do. Like I'm always, I'm always pretty much here, so I'm always available, even if we don't always hang out in that time. But to me that shows a lot of devotion because, again, like, I am a social person, so I do like being out, I do like doing things, like talking to people, um, I think, just taking care of our kids, making sure they're at school, making sure they have food, making sure the whole family has food, because I do most of the grocery shopping. I think that's a good way to show that I'm dedicated to you and to my whole family.
Speaker 2:I think that I would 100% agree and I appreciate you having you by my side, and I'm certainly blessed that we're able to do life together and I do think that those are great demonstrations of dedication and devotion. And for me, it's kind of just wired in me to just work real hard and try to be as successful as possible, and that doesn't always amount to success. But I think that working the way that I do and knowing that it's meaningful and that it enables us to be able to do the things that we want and live the life that we want, is really important. I'd have to say too, I'm a very firm believer in how we spend our time together. It really demonstrates our dedication and devotion to one another.
Speaker 2:Apparently, the other night, when our daughter's friend came over, we weren't eating dinner together because we were heading out to a baseball game and she thought we were quite dysfunctional and so she had to explain to her.
Speaker 2:No, we eat dinner together every night, which is sort of an anomaly for an American family, and I think that the dedication and devotion that we have is we spend time together as a family. We do have the ability, you know, to pray together and we also, you know, we go to worship God on Sunday together and I think that our ability to love one another and to devote time to one another is really through different acts of service. I know that we both have different ways of showing love to each other, and mine doesn't always directly equate to what yours is, but I definitely think that we're learning, that it's a continual cycle of learning what your spouse is, and I do really wanna thank you for your dedication and devotion. It's just been an amazing 19 years and I'm glad that we're able to do this podcast today, and I think that it really gives some insight into our marriage and the multiplicative effect of marriage. I want to end on this note. I want to know is there a greatest memory that you have of our marriage ceremony 19 years ago?
Speaker 1:I don't know if I'd say it's like, uh, one thing that was the greatest memory.
Speaker 1:But, um, I remember, like after everything, like my mom telling me about all this stuff that went wrong and all this stuff that didn't happen. Um, behind the scenes, that I just remember, like I'm the type of person that gets very stressed out for everything and if things are not the way that I think they should be, I it just causes me a lot of stress and anxiety. And I remember that day just not feeling stressed or anxious at all, and when my mom was telling me, after the fact of all the things that didn't happen and you kind of went wrong and just like not really knowing about all that at the time, um, I think that was just kind of nice that they were all able to kind of pull things off without it feeling stressful for me. So that was probably one of my greatest memories was just just knowing that everything went off perfectly, like there didn't seem to be a snag in anything that happened that day Besides the wedding night when they gave us the wrong room.
Speaker 2:The wrong suite.
Speaker 1:yes, I guess that's the only thing, but see, even that still ended out great, because instead of two beds we ended up getting a really nice room.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I recall the young man. He looked like he was in great distress because we rented a suite and they brought us up to our suite. It is our marital suite and it's the honeymoon night and I remember the bell hot boy opened the door and he saw I think it was two twin beds.
Speaker 2:It was something to that effect and he just looked. He looked just flabbergasted, and I remember he was very serious. He had the little radio up on his shoulder and he said, oh no, like I'm going to get this taken care of. And he was like I got a code 18 here, we need to figure something out. And so he was very intentional and very serious and we were just laughing, we were just having a good time, and so I recall him letting us know I got everything rectified. We're giving you the presidential suite, which we can never afford, but rectified. We're giving you the presidential suite, which we can never afford, but we had the opportunity. It was such a blessing. We went from this really basic room to the presidential suite that took up a third of the top floor, and I recall him telling us that the previous person who stayed in it was Charlize Theron, and there's a little note there that our daughter is named Charlize and so there's a connection to that story there, and so that was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Future episode right.
Speaker 2:Future episode yes, charlize Theron and Charlize, my daughter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and at the time I didn't even know what presidential suite meant, so I was like okay, whatever. And then when he took us up there, it was like wow, this is actually really nice. And I think it was like back then it was like $600 a night.
Speaker 2:I don't even know what it would cost now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a lot of money for, like that was our whole rent member.
Speaker 2:Yes, that was. That was the whole rent for an entire month for our first apartment. And I remember that, uh, I knew a presidential suite man and that we can't afford it, and so when he said that he's going to comp us that room for the night and there was no extra expenses, I asked can I rent it for another night? And he said absolutely not, and so I had to. I had to just swallow that tough pill and then kind of move on. So, yeah, that it definitely was a very easy going day. I recall that I remember everything being catered to us and your parents were real gracious and caring for everything and we had it at your, your church at the time, and that was a really awesome experience.
Speaker 2:And for me things did not go super smooth. I had a brother who was running off trying to get food right before we're going to walk down the aisle and, oh, it was just 100% chaos, but it was more the anxiety building up on. Oh, this is really going to happen, I'm going to be married and this is going to be something that's really official and we're going to be two that become one, and I was very anxious. I would put it that way, but I would say, for me, the thing that stood out the most is probably what I had shared before, which was you walking down the aisle and you were just gorgeous. And it just might be one of those things where there's something about a woman when she gets married, she has the nicest clothes, she's arrayed with nice clothing and adorned with jewelry, and you just looked absolutely amazing.
Speaker 2:I remember thinking, man, I'm really lucky, because even until this day, people say, jared, you married up. I think people think I'm ugly, but I always say I'm a solid six with a personality of a 10. And that's really what makes it right Like for you, that's all you really need Somebody who has a really good personality and semi-decent looks and boom, we're in business, baby. But all kidding aside, it definitely was your beauty and I recall this being overtaken by it and that was really something that had hit home with me. So I really enjoyed sharing some of our marriage with others and I hope that they understand, without going into great detail, the multiplicative effect of a marriage and how two people can become one and the characteristics that they have they can harness for the better, and so I hope today's episode was just a really educational and meaningful one.
Speaker 2:Thanks for hanging out with us today. We aim to help others live a dedicated and devoted life. If you want to come alongside us in partnership, please check out dedicateddevotedcom and make sure to subscribe. Join us next time for another episode of Dedicated Devoted. We post a new episode every week and we hope you join us see you later catch you here there or up in the air.
Speaker 2:Thank you.