Ep#1-How He Found Confidence to Create Change During Uncertainty -Tasawar Ulhaq

Join us for the premiere episode of Alphapreneurs, where host Rayhan Aleem sits down with Tasawar Ulhaq to unlock the secrets to his entrepreneurial success.

Tasawar takes us through his self-made career journey as he opens up about his rise from humble beginnings to a leading figure in his field while defying the odds and the risks all with confidence (everyone told him it was impossible, but he made it!). 

He also emphasized the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people, the skyrocketing growth of the Saudi market, and his fascination with Riyadh, all while sharing some valuable business insights drawn from his widely acclaimed experience.

Follow Tasawar Ulhaq on LinkedIn: tazulhaq

Follow Rayhan Aleem on LinkedIn: rayhanaleem

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Sponsors:

1-Alpha Pro Partners:

    -Website: www.alphapartners.co

    -LinkedIn: alphapropartners

2- Tax Star

    -Website: www.taxstar.app

    -LinkedIn: Tax-star

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Transcript

[00:00:00] Tas: In a time where everybody else is panicking, I can build something or I can create something. And I think that's where the entrepreneurial mindset came in, right? A lot of entrepreneurs you speak to as well, they don't ask for help. And that's part of that resilience, of being an entrepreneur. I set certain personal goals.

[00:00:19] Tas: Personal goals for me is business, family. And just making sure that how I live my life and I'm happy is important. We had a signed deal for 250 million, which an investment group, very well known where it was all signed off. And one person decided they don't want to do the deal anymore. Wow. And I was counting the money all the way to my back.

[00:00:41] Rayhan: Welcome to the Alphapreneurs Podcast. I'm your host, Rayhan Aleem. Founder of Tax Star and Alpha Pro Partners. Join me on each episode as we talk to inspiring entrepreneurs who share their stories, challenges, and secrets on building world class businesses. I'm very pleased to welcome to Sawa Ul Haq, AKA Tas to the show.

[00:01:05] Rayhan: I've known Tas for a number of years and we met through mutual friend. And he remains to be a client, a mentor, and a friend. Tassawa is an experienced strategist, entrepreneur, and an expert in navigating through tough business challenges. Not only did he found and run a successful UAE free zone licensing business, But he also was one of the early pioneers in helping foreign businesses set up in Saudi Arabia.

[00:01:33] Rayhan: But his experience goes way beyond that. Not only has he worked in private equity, but he's also managed a multi million dollar VC fund. And despite all of his success, he still remains one of the most humblest, down to earth entrepreneurs that I know. Welcome to the show. Tell us about your, journey.

[00:01:52] Rayhan: How did you get into entrepreneurship? You had a successful career in London, in the UK, and then you landed in Dubai. Do you want to just tell us about how you got, to entrepreneurship? 

[00:02:04] Tas: Yeah, look, I think, starting off in London. The company I worked for, they instilled, hard work has always instilled into me, but the way and the structure with their work, it was a small team.

[00:02:18] Tas: I was batch of five from a company that was only 10, working from 8. 30, 9. 00 AM to 10. 00 PM, 11. 00 PM at night, it was very normal, five to six days a week. and obviously we were paid very well for it. So working hard and seeing the results from that was normal and it becomes second nature to you.

[00:02:40] Tas: So when I came out to Dubai as an MD for that company and three or four years later, that company was 200 people with, I think, 12 different offices, just that building a business in the Middle East for them was something I had to do. And then obviously when the markets crashed, things changed around the world.

[00:03:03] Tas: So I suddenly find myself either having to move back with them or live in the Middle East. And I take Middle East every day. So I just saw an opportunity where I can either go get a job or build something else. And because we were so trained to always have focus, deliver on that focus and, have a target in mind.

[00:03:23] Tas: I just realized that in a, time where everybody else is panicking, I can build something or I can create something. And I think that's where the entrepreneurial mindset came in, right? Start, working in a way that you're running your business as an entrepreneur with very clear focus. And then I've followed through with those kind of basic skills and principles in my life, whether working for large companies or working for myself, where you're focusing on building a large business.

[00:03:55] Tas: and I think most people should have that skill across the board, whether they're working for a large company or they're working for themselves. It's just been instilled for me from a very young age. So I think I'm blessed with that. That's right. That's 

[00:04:08] Rayhan: really interesting. the fact that you've.

[00:04:11] Rayhan: started working for practically UK and you grew the business to 200 people in the Middle East. I'm sure there was a lot of challenges, not only, setting up, scaling up a business, but also building a team, coming to a new country. What kind of things, if you look back, would you, what would, you have done differently to help you push yourself more to, what were the lessons learned in, in, those stories?

[00:04:41] Tas: I'm a very hands on person. I get my hands dirty. I get involved in things. a lot of people, and I've seen success come from this, is just the ability to delegate and make sure that when you're leading, you're freeing up your brain power and your time to focus on the bigger decisions and execution.

[00:05:03] Tas: And having the right team around you to deliver and follow that kind of the vision of the company, the mission of the company, right? So I think early days, the, I, the concept of in UK flat structure, we're all working together. I think that works very well, but they still look to a leader. and there's a misconception sometimes of we're a flat structure, so we all get involved.

[00:05:27] Tas: You need to also be able to step away and lead, run the operations, oversee the finances, not just focusing on execution and then you fall behind a little bit, right? So I think time and time I've learned that. In business. I always want to be the guy that's getting my sleeve rolled up, get involved in business.

[00:05:44] Tas: That makes me very, technically competent on what I'm doing. So I know the minute, nuts and bolts of all the business. Yeah. But it also means that you don't keep your eye on the bigger picture you are getting so involved in the nuts and bolts that you are not seeing the finished product away. I have to remind myself even now to make sure that I see the bigger picture. And at that time, it was, I was just thrown into country, didn't know anybody or anything about the Middle East, other than a few business visits, which I kept calling holidays. So I would, say that, yeah, I would definitely leverage rather than try and take everything on myself.

[00:06:24] Tas: Leverage. We had a holding company, not trying to be the guy that's doing all by myself and doing it alone. and, I think a lot of entrepreneurs you speak to as well, they don't ask for help. That's part of that resilience, of being an entrepreneur. So not necessarily, you could also help, but also use people around you, right?

[00:06:45] Tas: Like mentors and people who have skills in areas that you haven't previously done. So I hadn't run financials before, so I feel I've used that CFO a lot more, but you learn from those things and you get, faster, smarter. And then when the markets crashed, business was consolidating. And.

[00:07:04] Tas: I took a lot away from that. So that actually, those lessons helped me in my next, move. 

[00:07:10] Rayhan: I like the fact that you mentioned about, as a leader, you need to focus on the core functions of, of the organization, the key strategic initiatives. And even in my business, I'm, always having to put on a whiteboard the four or five objectives that needs to be done in Q1, Q2, Q3, because you can easily get sucked into the, the emails, the phone calls, the nitty gritty, Oh, I need five minutes of your time here, I need 10 minutes of your time there.

[00:07:38] Rayhan: and that's a really important skill that you've, obviously mentioned. So Tas, I've known you as someone who's a top class executor. you've executed multiple businesses, you've been very successful, but you're also able to adapt and change, as you mentioned, in, in some of your examples previously.

[00:07:56] Rayhan: What's the secret to that? how do you become a very good executor, but at the same time being able to adapt and change? 

[00:08:03] Tas: So I don't think there's a one size fits all answer to this. And I'll try not to give the textbook answers that you read in all the books. for me, I think, a bunch of things.

[00:08:16] Tas: So, not having the ego that just because you're doing something, you've done it before, you're right. And, just, understand how things are moving, whether it's markets, climate, the way the business is running and being realistic to yourself about it, knowing your own goals. your stakeholders have objective, your shareholders have objectives.

[00:08:36] Tas: You have objective, my one objective has always been to make sure that the business is successful. and sometimes, even stakeholders don't have that common objective. But for me, navigating around that business landscape has been making sure I can adjust very quickly. not having the ego that just because I thought something, if I'm wrong, quickly changed quickly, and I use that in my personal life, right?

[00:09:03] Tas: If somebody's giving me feedback, I've done something wrong, it's free feedback. I take, I do take, I would say a monthly, if not quarterly, at least a step back and look at what am I doing right? What am I doing wrong for myself? And then also for businesses. So being able to adapt there. So I set certain personal goals, for me as business, family, and just making sure that how I live my life and I'm happy is important.

[00:09:31] Tas: And then. adjusting that in business. if everybody wants to get the best quarters and the best financial, sometimes you have to be realistic of what things are going well and not, and adjust very quickly and instantly if you can, So anybody that adapts quickly, survives a lot longer than somebody who just keeps taking on the same problem with the same solution and not getting anywhere.

[00:09:52] Tas: So I think that's that's been key and then oversight, And being with the right team, always key. You need a few people that are making things go right. Otherwise. You're doing it as a one man show and not doing it very well. So having the right team is key. but yeah, just adapting really, and understanding where you are going wrong or things are going right.

[00:10:13] Tas: And you can elevate that because you can always achieve more, right? Yeah. Can you give 

[00:10:17] Rayhan: some more stories of some of your previous, businesses or where 

[00:10:23] Tas: you've worked? We were part of the VC, a VC firm. We bought 10 existing portfolio companies out from the U S into the Middle East. The concept was that we had seeded a business down here, which is an operating company.

[00:10:36] Tas: We bring out the biggest and the best. they already had contracts in the Middle East and we expand that, right? So we build contracts with large corporates as well as, just expand how their footprints with staffing, et cetera. the concept of mobile housing was still relatively new and we want some large contracts.

[00:10:58] Tas: The client wasn't able to deliver. And we were really excited because the fees were in the hundreds of millions. no, the revenue value was in the hundreds of millions. And, we just realized that business is not going to be successful here. Painful to see. And on one side, you're mentally thinking that's hundreds of millions I'm gonna have to let go 

[00:11:17] Rayhan: of, 

[00:11:18] Tas: but then let not execute, it'll tarnish your reputation.

[00:11:21] Tas: So you just make a decision that you're going to cut your losses. And whether it's business, hiring, or anything that you think is going to be damaging, just cut it, right? It's If you're sick, take medicine, fix it. so, that, that's that was crucial because out of the 10 businesses, we shut down three and continue on with seven.

[00:11:42] Tas: And those seven went through the typical J curve. We spent a lot of money on them, grew them very successful. And, we had exits from all of them. Yeah. Some of them, we actually, they just got acquired in the U S and we benefited from that journey. So I think that following that pattern has always been useful just to make sure that you.

[00:12:01] Tas: You adjust very quickly. And it goes back to some of your early questions, make a tough decision, go with it. Sometimes emotionally is tough, but you made a decision earlier when your emotion wasn't involved. So just take that decision and move on. I would also say that, even my personal career, I've left jobs, in good terms because I thought This is, there's no growth for me here. Financially, it's very good. The journey has been very good, but it's time to move on to something else. And that's led to bigger and better opportunities and constant growth. and if you share very humbly and honestly, some people would just understand.

[00:12:42] Tas: So I've taken those same decisions in my personal life as well. 

[00:12:45] Rayhan: So you're someone who's been on both sides of the, of the investor entrepreneur. you've been an entrepreneur and you've been an investor as well. we have a lot of. a lot of our audience, a lot of them are going to be entrepreneurs.

[00:12:59] Rayhan: they're looking to raise funds. They've never done it before. it's quite a daunting, task for them. So you putting on your investor hat, as well as your entrepreneur hat, what kind of advice can you give in terms of, your experiences and what worked for you. 

[00:13:15] Tas: So I've gone by the simple principle that, the path to money, and it makes logical sense.

[00:13:23] Tas: That's pretty basic, but not everybody uses that, right? doesn't mean that every business. Has to have immediate visibility of profitability. there's a lot of tech businesses that, they increase their consumer base or they have a different USP. that doesn't exist as much here, more US focus.

[00:13:46] Tas: however, you, still understand what the metrics are for that business, right? For growth. so if you're looking at it from the investor side, just that journey, right? With that journey is a six month journey of making just pure financial returns. So if you're going to follow through for 10 years and how that investment, whether in a fund or a company will yield the results and also how will they adapt to the tough time, because it doesn't always work out the way you had planned it to.

[00:14:15] Tas: Now, if you look at it from the flip side, when I've raised money for myself or run businesses. I look at it from the same perspective, is there a clear path to money? if and you're very passionate about the business, I've raised money on the back of no presentation and no pitch books.

[00:14:33] Tas: That was because the pitch books and the presentation was there, but I said, look, I know the business so well, give me 15 minutes of your time. And then I will deliver, and if you're not impressed, then we don't have to meet again. Yeah. that's going back to knowing your business very well, knowing the journey that you will take if you take investors money and how will you return that money in the worst and best case scenario and how you'll manage it.

[00:15:00] Tas: one of my dear friends who invested with me once said to me that, I'm happy to give you the money, not based on the pitch, but I just know that you will be resilient and keep working hard to make sure this is a success. And if it fails, it wasn't because of you, but I had built that reputation as well.

[00:15:17] Tas: I think, looking at it from an investor standpoint, I've always looked at how can I deliver to my stakeholders and what is the timeline I'm looking at for this? What is my worst case scenario? Because you always, everyone's always going to pitch a rosy dream. And start off with the basic questions, right?

[00:15:34] Tas: What is, what are you looking for profitability? What are the other scenarios? Also as an investor, I look at how can I add value to the company or what do I have in my existing portfolio or my network that I can leverage to make sure this company is a success. Yeah. ultimately if I'm investing into a company, and I find that Let's say the founder doesn't have a good network or lacks a certain skill.

[00:16:02] Tas: Is there something we can do to add value? And on the flip side, when you're raising money, you're an entrepreneur, you just need to make sure that if you're lacking a skill or if there's certain areas that you're not very good at, you can show that you have a team to do that work, right? and the basics of running a business of operations, finance, HR, et cetera, those things are always very important, right?

[00:16:23] Tas: So you should cover that when you're presenting and all that. How will you create and how will you acquire clients? The bottom line is quite important. So this, the, equation is pretty much what you need in there. The formula is the same, but what the person needs to hear is what you would expect to hear if you're, selling or, buying that.

[00:16:43] Tas: That, sale, it needs to be something that, where is that journey going to take you? And you should be able to explain that very quickly. 

[00:16:49] Rayhan: Yeah. One of the things I picked up from what you, mentioned is obviously the investor, they want you to win. Yes, of course. So there are going to be investors out there who will just give you money and leave you alone.

[00:17:02] Rayhan: There'll be investors who want to have an active involvement in your business. But as you said, there are investors who do both, they give you the cash and they want to help you with connections and they want to help you in terms of, making sure you win, because if you win, they win as well.

[00:17:18] Rayhan: in, in your experience, when you're an entrepreneur and you're looking to raise funds, Obviously, you'd go for the one that, as you mentioned, like yourself, you know, you, provide the capital and you want to help them out. Is it hard to find them? What kind of things would you, what kind of hints would you give an entrepreneur to figure out whether that is that type of investor that, that will really help them in, in, in their business?

[00:17:43] Tas: Look, in the U. S. you have, people who have access to a lot of liquidity. So they always, the companies raising money have an option and they normally pick who the investors come in with them, right? I think it, there's maybe a bit of a misconception here that, let's just get the money and it'll work out.

[00:18:04] Tas: Some people will do that, right? If it's a first time founder, they will take the first money they get. if you understand your business and you know how to grow it, you could be a little bit resilient and you can, Choose who the right parties, because if one person's interested, many others will be interested and actually know to yourself that you're just getting lucky and then take the lucky money.

[00:18:27] Tas: I think some people just want an investor because you, as someone who's raising money, know how to leverage that as well. So if it's somebody with a good brand name, maybe they don't help you. Or maybe they have a network that you have not. they haven't thought of, but you can leverage. so I think having a clear idea, sometimes you just need to raise money.

[00:18:47] Tas: Yeah. But then if you can have a clear structure, like running a business, which way you're going to take it. Why are you talking to those investors? What do they have? And they may not have the time or bandwidth to support you. You should have regular interactions with them. Now you could also take money from an investor, just not a great partner to have.

[00:19:08] Tas: so you should also think of your exit, right? So what does that mean for the investor and how can they exit? and part ways amicably, but when you're looking at an investor, you should look at more than one option. And, obviously you have the beauty parade, you talk to investors about, you What can they bring for you?

[00:19:25] Tas: And asking, look, the difficult part is asking somebody, what can you do for me when you're asking money is not an easy one, but it shows an element of confidence in your own business if you know why you're asking that question. And often, the investor finds themselves presenting that this is what they can do for you.

[00:19:41] Tas: And it helps them justify to themselves why they're making a certain investment. when I was looking at investments, I'd always look at why, should I, invest time? Because it. An element of bandwidth that you have to then allocate managing the portfolio of companies. so always looked at it from whether I'm raising money or allocating money.

[00:20:01] Tas: What benefit does it bring outside of just financials? Because the numbers are always going to look good on presentation, right? It's when you're running the business, things are delayed, things don't work out the way they're supposed to, how agile are they, and how do they answer questions, are they going to get upset about difficult questions?

[00:20:16] Tas: So for both the investor and the entrepreneur. So that's a common theme I've followed. 

[00:20:22] Rayhan: So Tas, I've met you many times in Saudi. I've met you many times in Dubai. we seem to be sometimes following each other on planes when, we're going in between, cities. So obviously you've got, you reside, you spend more time in Saudi than I do.

[00:20:40] Rayhan: and you, live there. You've got a lot of connections there. So tell me more about, Saudi, what's the opportunity for entrepreneurs in Saudi? I know, a lot about the economy. how to set up, what are the key things that can really make a business successful?

[00:20:55] Rayhan: I know that, I happen to know businesses that go there and they don't necessarily, stay there for a long time. They retreat for whatever reason that is. but I also know many businesses that really thrive, out there as well. so what would you say your kind of tips are, how'd you find traveling to and fro?

[00:21:16] Tas: So I moved out to Saudi probably just, close to three years ago, maybe a little bit more. I instantly fell in love with the place. Ironically, I was wanting to move to Saudi 10 years ago. some people say I dodged a bullet, but I, I saw the opportunity a long time ago, right? Because it was, very well, a lot of liquidity always has had, and it was only a matter of time and the access into Saudi Arabia hasn't been easy in the past.

[00:21:51] Tas: So then you see there's an opportunity, right? Because there's so much capital down there. And it's all, you look at 12, 14 years ago, a friend of mine from Procter and Gamble told me that 94 percent of their revenue comes from Saudi Arabia. Wow. So that was a long time ago. And so that's no joke, right? I instantly fell in love when I went out there three years ago, because I saw there was so much opportunity.

[00:22:17] Tas: Everything was, big. the investment into retail operations was large. The consumer spending was, everybody's out there spending money. And there's a huge, Saudis designed very well for Saudis. There's a large population out there. and the numbers vary, but I've heard everything from 20 million Saudis to 30 million Saudis, and then 5 million expats.

[00:22:47] Tas: If you go by the 30 and then five, there's a population out there that's already spending money. So there's. you can work with Saudis and really see an opportunity as an entrepreneur or someone building a business. and now Saudi is doing a great job anyway, marketing itself. So it doesn't need anybody to market, But it's a beautiful place to be visually. And there's great projects like, Red Sea, Al Ula. which is attracting the who's who for tourism from celebrities to, people, influencers, et cetera. But from a business standpoint, it's huge. It's the largest, country in the GCC, whatever you are trying to do and you do very well in any of the GCC countries, you could be extremely successful in Saudi.

[00:23:37] Tas: Yeah. There's a top 10 in OECD as well, right? Correct. Okay. And they are looking at, if you're looking at how to really build your business with a diverse amount of clients and huge geography, and it, the, you know, if you split it into three parts, which is J the R and the mom, which, with the oil is Yes.

[00:24:00] Tas: Correct. And look, within those places there's far more. I'm simplifying it. there's opportunities in all those places and you can literally stay in Saudi and just do business down there and have a very successful business. Whatever it might be, whether marketing, PR, manufacturing, Everything, there's a, there's an opportunity for now, real estate is opening up. Everybody's trying to get in there. for me, that was exciting. Not enough people had tapped into it correctly. inherently people have known things to be slow. And again, where there's an, there's a problem, there's an opportunity.

[00:24:39] Tas: and I guess that's what being an entrepreneur is, right? You see the opportunity in things there. There's. cumbersome experience. And I think, over the last, my experience in the last three years, from a government perspective, things have been extremely efficient and fast. And what I heard was that it's one of the few countries in the world where the government operates faster than the private sector, trying to keep up and you just have to look at some of the things that PIF are doing.

[00:25:04] Tas: So I think, from an entrepreneurship and companies going out down there, you do need to think of your budget. It's not cheap. It's not cheap. Navigate. It's not cheap to move around. when you have everybody in the who's who trying to move into that place and they're attracting top companies in the world, setting up regional headquarters.

[00:25:25] Tas: you do start to develop some competition, but because the market's so large, there's opportunity. So you could always look at how can you develop a business in Saudi, light amount of business development, and then go set up down there, but you should just be aware of the budgets like any business, right?

[00:25:40] Tas: You should be aware of what is your cost of setting up a light infrastructure down there. And then gradually as you grow, what does that mean to you and how do you go about doing it? working with the right people, finding the right clients. And there again, your clients are from. A multitude of government or semi government owned businesses to huge number of private sector businesses, which are run by some of the largest families backed by big corporates and which ultimately leads to big families.

[00:26:10] Tas: Yeah. so it's a fantastic place. So I live in Riyadh, Riyadh, again, I'm going to round up, it's roughly 10 million people population. My complaint is that it's too much traffic. So that's a good thing for me, right? Because I see that there's an opportunity there because look at, again, the number of consumers they are, the amount of people they are down there.

[00:26:30] Tas: So you know that whatever business you're going to be running, if run well, it's going to lead to profitability and people in Saudi are amazing. So I really I'm a brand ambassador for whatever Saudi does. So I'm a big fan and I've, I love life in Saudi actually. And it's very peaceful there as well.

[00:26:49] Rayhan: I think, a lot of great nuggets that you've obviously, mentioned about Saudi and 100 percent agree. I guess one of the key things when you're going to Saudi is, like you said, have a budget, have a plan, right? You can't just copy and paste what you do in the UAE, in Saudi, you can't just copy and paste what you do in the US, the UK, Europe, Australia, in Saudi as well.

[00:27:09] Rayhan: You have to find your way around there to be able to be successful, because as you said, the consumer market is massive and there are A lot of consumers who spend a lot of money, is there anything that you would, from a execution point of view, when you're going to Saudi market, what kind of tips do you have for businesses are looking to go in and try to establish operations so they can really be successful?

[00:27:33] Rayhan: Yeah, look, so 

[00:27:34] Tas: I give some common kind of, points to people that we work with. It's just be aware that. and look, some of them are obvious, that it is not the same country as UAE, and both are amazing in their own way, but you can't tell somebody just because you saw something in UAE, it should be expected in Saudi Arabia.

[00:27:58] Tas: The same way when you go to France. It's not the same as UK or if you go to any other country, it's not, they're not exactly the same, right? From, eating, manners to, just the way business is conducted. And I think there's an expectation that because somebody did that one or two meetings, that business should come through.

[00:28:15] Tas: And inherently people are always very polite and they're very welcoming. Because that leads to a misconception that business will come through very quickly. I have become, since moving out down there, that you should hire local. You should hire people from within Saudi Arabia. There's a very talented.

[00:28:31] Tas: When you mean local, you mean a Saudi national. Yeah, because, and just kicking myself in the foot a little bit here, because I also hope that I continue to work down there. But look, I think that you'll always have that balance. but some very talented Saudis there, they're well educated, very entrepreneurial, work hard.

[00:28:53] Tas: I think there's been, thoughts from things that have happened in the past, but ultimately, like if you look at it from a, detailed perspective, labor law is pretty much the same for foreigners and Saudis. So hire local, you don't have to worry about someone trying to find accommodation or relocation allowance and things like that.

[00:29:11] Tas: I think you just understand that most of these regions. Middle East, and actually the wider Asia region as well is relationship driven. So you have to invest in those relationships. Why do I, I do Saudi Dubai. I spend most of my time in Saudi, nurturing relationships, working with some of our clients and doing the consulting work we do down there.

[00:29:37] Tas: But equally, I'm aware that I need to be in Dubai as well, or UAE to nurture the relationships I have here. Which leads to business in Saudi Arabia, because, we, we bridge the, gap between global corporates and Saudi Arabia. So they need to meet. So I need to invest that time with the people and I do the same thing here.

[00:29:58] Tas: I nurture those relationships. I come in, I spend a week with them. Sometimes there's not enough hours in the day. And I think if you're aware of that for Saudi Arabia, you can see a lot of success. And there's different paths. It's not one path serves everybody. So I, saw a company that I spoke to three years ago.

[00:30:17] Tas: They are in, I'm going to be generic about it, health and, pharmaceuticals. And, And now three years later, I've just seen an announcement that they've decided to venture with a partner in Saudi Arabia that are going to help them with their distribution. And I guess it's taken a good few years for them to negotiate the right structure, the right deal.

[00:30:43] Tas: And I'm not saying everybody should take three years, but essentially they've, really done their research. They've understood what they need and they've invested into that relationship because you can't just meet somebody and think we are going to go into, a relationship immediately.

[00:30:56] Tas: They need to get to know each other. And that's a new relationship, right? You need to have that courtship and you have to get to know each other that this is the right thing for each other. And you meet. Other business folks and you explore how business is done that way. So that, that, I think that common theme works everywhere in the world, especially in Saudi Arabia.

[00:31:15] Tas: And so it's a very large, so if you're going to do business in Riyadh, you can just survive very well in Riyadh. If you then start expanding out to other areas of Saudi Arabia, and it's a beautiful country as well, right? So there's a lot of tourism down there. You should then really try to understand how business is done and to some degree you can't rush it.

[00:31:34] Tas: I think people find that frustrating, but that's everywhere in the world. I've done business in New York and UK. Europe, nobody just says yes on the first meeting. I wish they did, but they never do. 

[00:31:45] Rayhan: That's why budget is very important, right? Yes. You can't just put a one year budget. You got to put at least a, a budget for three, five years for it, for your business to really expand and, grow over the next, five to 10 years.

[00:31:58] Rayhan: So 

[00:31:59] Tas: be aware of your exit. Maybe it doesn't work for you because your product is not the right fit or you never met the right clients. But I think, overall the opportunity is always there and there is a huge amount of, desire to do business in Saudi Arabia, so it's a, it's. It's hard to miss out. I was in New York and they were, announcing projects that are not due for completion for another 10 years, but the branding and the visibility of, Saudi Arabia was there just in, Soho, New York.

[00:32:37] Tas: So it's, You can't miss Saudi Arabia at the moment. 

[00:32:40] Rayhan: like you said, you run multiple businesses. You've been an investor, you've been an entrepreneur. for sure. You've come across your fair share of challenges and doubts. Can you give us some insights into some of these situations in your career?

[00:32:54] Rayhan: And, what, did you learn from them? What, can we learn from, your 

[00:32:58] Tas: experiences? I want to say I've never had any problems. look, I think challenges really make you stronger, right? And if you know how to learn from those and you have, especially as an entrepreneur, if you're waiting for things to happen and you can almost feel like you're there, but you're not quite on the dotted line, you're not signing, it can get quite daunting.

[00:33:22] Tas: And there are days where you're going to just. Emotionally, mentally struggle, right? You're just going to think, what am I doing all of this for? you have, to, when you're running any kind of business, you have to be mentally strong. you have to have your visions and you have to understand why you're doing it and a purpose always helps.

[00:33:43] Tas: I think being surrounded by the right kind of people really makes a difference. So in your personal life or friendships or the business people you're surrounded by, I think one of the things I've always struggled with, avoid toxic people because they will damage any kind of creative thoughts that you have, and doubt yourself.

[00:34:07] Tas: and toxic people, they're, it's known, but they, they, can hurt the way you think, and then you have doubts, right? and only when you leave that partnership or relationship, you realize that actually you, can do a lot better and that's again, earlier we talked about investments.

[00:34:27] Tas: Pick the right people for you. and then from a friendship perspective as well, right? People that elevate you that actually are realistic. So if you have some crazy idea, that's not realistic. And someone tells you that should be open to listening to that. but help you on your journey, guide you and give you the right feedback.

[00:34:46] Tas: yeah, I've had my fair share of things that looking like they're difficult or investments that, whether raising money for funds or, clients, and you're there and then the investor decides that they're not going to invest. And I've been in the other side where I've told people it's not going to work.

[00:35:04] Tas: And I've seen the soul leaves somebody's body. and it's unfortunate, but when you look back, you can justify that decision to yourself because it was right for you. And every now and then you missed out on an opportunity, right? I think, having just clear, understanding of what you plan to do, your kind of, your final objectives.

[00:35:27] Tas: And again, timelines are always subjective, right? It's, you cannot think I will achieve something in three months and, it's going to happen. So I don't want to use a cliche terms, but for me, smart goals. Has always been good. So being very specific about your goals, measure it, see that it's achievable, making sure they're realistic and then a timeline against it.

[00:35:51] Tas: And I'm not going to use many acronyms, but I think that for me has always been a simple measure that whatever I have planned, there is a, there's a timeline against it and what are my, other decisions based on not hitting those milestones and, again, you have to be realistic to yourself and look, sometimes things happen.

[00:36:13] Tas: for me, probably the most difficult parts are when you have mentally planned for a certain date and it doesn't happen and that can be emotionally devastating. I get OCD from that. Ah, but I've also learned that from all of those things, there's good that comes from it. Yeah. and the beauty of living in the Middle East is you learn me being here because I didn't have that in the UK.

[00:36:35] Tas: that delays are sometimes for the best. Yeah. Alhamdulillah. so it's a blessing. You don't realize that at the time. And if you look back in life and you see how many blessings happen because of something not happening or a delay or something not going the way you had planned it to. You should, you, can really look back and think I'm very grateful for that moment, right?

[00:36:57] Tas: And, that's a, I guess for me, faith helps when things don't work out, especially. It also helps when it was, works out because you're grateful for that to happen, right? Having that gratitude is important. however, Understanding that a delay is good for you, which is difficult to understand sometimes, understanding that something failed or did not happen or didn't work the way it's supposed to work out because that was good for you, but you don't know that at the time.

[00:37:25] Tas: And if you look back in your life, you'd see that it all makes sense. so for me, having that mindset has helped time and time again. And if it doesn't work, Look, I missed out on, we had a signed deal for 250 million, which an investment group, very well known, were, it was all signed off.

[00:37:48] Tas: And one person decided they don't want to do the deal anymore. Wow. And I was counting the money all the way to my back. I don't see any good that happened from that deal, not happening, but it forced me to be agile, make other decisions and just focus on that's not happened. I need to move on very quickly.

[00:38:08] Tas: I'm not going to sit there and complain about it and having faith that I can, I believe in my own skill. it's not always easy. You just you just push on and make sure that you, you, do good for yourself and all your responsibilities that you have. 

[00:38:26] Rayhan: You're my go to person for anything to do with Saudi.

[00:38:31] Rayhan: what are the key sectors in Saudi that, you've worked on or what as to be exciting in the future? 

[00:38:37] Tas: In the last few years of being down there, I've worked on so many different exciting areas, both from helping global corporates set up and expand the business into Saudi, as well as supporting them with some of the operations there, just, form a hat that I've put on and help people really implement their business and execute there. So e gaming, amazing area that I had never really touched before. And, still a very growing sector. The amount of funding that's coming in from the government has been enormous. The biggest gaming platforms and event organizers have been coming into Saudi Arabia and that's super exciting area.

[00:39:17] Tas: and the type of people you meet down there, Are very unique and, very interesting from all over the world, as well as Saudis. something that I bought to the UAE 14, 15 years ago is, agriculture technology, agtech. And there's so much growth in that area. There's been some well known brands that have expanded into the, into Saudi.

[00:39:43] Tas: And we've supported some of those companies, set up farming, bases, across Saudi Arabia, with some of these giga projects that you've heard of. So that's been really exciting. And just, being able to support them because knowledge from bringing previous companies out to the UAE and being quite involved from an investment standpoint as well, previously.

[00:40:04] Tas: and then, there's unique things like, livestock, farming and meat production, as well as sales. So that's, doesn't sound very exciting, but when you look at the logistics and the small kind of different, components involved and mixing that with technology from. Blockchain linked with, how, you can, from plate to source, and that's coming into Saudi Arabia.

[00:40:30] Tas: that's really exciting, right? So you don't see that in the news, but you, you're involved in these projects and you quietly have a sense of achievement that you've done a part of that business. We've been very involved in FinTech. so regulatory standpoint of getting businesses, the formal approvals in the FinTech space.

[00:40:51] Tas: and some of the concepts and the businesses that we've seen or been involved in, and I've been passively or actually quite actively advising a couple of the FinTechs when they've come into Saudi Arabia and helping them with the execution in Saudi, that's been super exciting because the entrepreneurs, the founders and the way they execute and their projections and their market plans for Saudi, because it's such a large market.

[00:41:15] Tas: Yeah. and Has been phenomenal and just the way some of the entrepreneurs think is, it's, amazing. Sports. Yeah, that, that's, that's exciting. And, if you look at some of them. Have you been to any games yet? I have not. No, so I've been, Sports, we always think of football, but I've been to.

[00:41:34] Tas: That's what I was thinking. yeah. So, sports also include things like UFC. Yeah, And this thing. Yes, Formula E, Formula One. Yeah. these, yeah, I've attended and that's been so excited, so well run, golf has been obviously a huge thing, right? So it's a, it, sports, I think I've had a minute relative to what Saudi is doing involvement, but for me, it's still very, fairly large, and that's an exciting area.

[00:42:02] Tas: And so now you have people who are sports agents coming into Saudi Arabia and seeing celebrities in Riyadh, especially footballers. It's very common. 

[00:42:11] Rayhan: Yeah. 

[00:42:13] Tas: you've got visit friends and in their local gyms are all the celebrities. So it's interesting place to be not too dissimilar to, where we are right now in Dubai.

[00:42:22] Tas: so it's, being involved in some of these things is always really exciting. And then we've been involved in, good old, school oil and gas businesses. and talking to some of the global giants that, our household names is quietly me. yeah, I've been involved in some really exciting projects and I hope that continues.

[00:42:48] Tas: Yeah. Which I'm sure it 

[00:42:48] Rayhan: will. I'm sure it will. Tas, thank you very much for joining us today. It's been amazing hearing about your experiences. about your war stories about, some of the challenges that you've been through. Before we wrap up, is there any exciting projects and plans that we should be aware of that we should look out for?

[00:43:08] Rayhan: What's the best way to contact you? 

[00:43:09] Tas: LinkedIn is, best for me. I love LinkedIn. Tas, Ul Haq, nice and easy, T A Z U L A T A Q. And I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. I post a lot about Saudi. friends call me, Brown Ambassador for Saudi down there. and then, exciting projects. I think, I posted something about it a while ago.

[00:43:31] Tas: So we're, we've done some consulting work, building co working spaces in Saudi. And now there's some interest that we build our own co working spaces. and we're still somewhat involved in the spaces that we've built. there's, I don't know how much I can reveal on this. There's talks about a venture fund in Saudi Arabia, just as so much opportunity, there's a lot of liquidity in the country, and there's a lot of deal.

[00:43:58] Tas: Foreign companies coming in. collaborate with other VCs as well as startups in Saudi Arabia. understanding the legal aspect, something we know very well. So that's something that, we will bridge into both the coworking space as well as the VC element, and then, there's a couple of big projects focused around real estate.

[00:44:22] Tas: It's hard to miss real estate. in a former life, I did a lot of work and investments into real estate. Makkah, Medina, Riyadh are two hot areas and we should be releasing a white paper soon. on foreign ownership into Saudi Arabia. 

[00:44:40] Rayhan: Thanks for sharing that Tas. thank you very much for joining us today.

[00:44:43] Rayhan: And, we wish you best of luck in with your future projects. Thank you. Thank you for having 

[00:44:48] Tas: me and, good luck and keep growing the podcast. 

[00:44:52] Rayhan: Thank you very much. Thank you for joining us on the Alphapreneurs Podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and give us a five star rating and a review.

[00:45:01] Rayhan: For show notes and more, click on the link in the description. Connect with me directly on LinkedIn and search for Rayhan Aleem. See you soon.