The Evolution of New Zealand Wine with Erica Crawford of Loveblock Wine

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Go here for all your Thanksgiving Resources from Wine Pairings, Chef Michael's carving video and more!

Summary

In this episode of Sipping Point, host Laurie Forster prepares for Thanksgiving by discussing how Sauvignon Blanc is perfect for your upcoming holiday meals. Laurie speaks with Erica Crawford who shares her journey from co-founding the iconic Kim Crawford brand to launching her new venture, Loveblock. She discusses the evolution of New Zealand wine, the unique characteristics of Pinot Gris, Sauvignon Blanc, Pinot Noir as well as the benefits of screw caps. Erica emphasizes her commitment to organic and vegan-friendly winemaking practices, and introduces innovative techniques such as using green tea extracts in Sauvignon Blanc to enhance flavor without sulfites. The discussion also touches on the influence of terroir and biodynamics on wine production. They discuss the importance of terroir, the challenges of organic certification, and the growing presence of women in the wine industry. The dialogue is rich with insights on wine tasting, food pairings, and the personal experiences that shape winemaking.

Takeaways

• Love Block represents a new vision focused on organic practices.
• Pinot Gris from New Zealand offers a unique flavor profile compared to Italian versions.
• Screw caps provide better preservation for wines compared to corks.
• Organic winemaking practices enhance the quality and texture of wines.
• Vegan-friendly wines replace traditional fining agents with plant-based alternatives.
• Innovative techniques like tea extracts can replace sulfites in wine.
• Terroir and lunar cycles significantly influence wine flavor and quality.
• Terroir significantly influences the taste of wine.
• Pinot Noir from Central Otago offers intense flavors.

Wines Tasted

1. Loveblock Sauvignon Blanc Sustainable Marlborough 2021
2. Loveblock Pinot Gris Sustainable Marlborough 2022
3. Loveblock TEE Sauvignon Blanc No Sulfur Added Sustainable Marlborough 2022
4. Loveblock Pinot Noir Sustainable Central Otago 2021

Transcript

Laurie Forster (00:01.866)

All right, welcome to this week's Sipping Point. I'm so excited later to share with you.

Erica Crawford from Love Block Wine in New Zealand and you're going to hear all about her and that last name Crawford should sound a little familiar to you. So I'm excited to have her. But before we get there, of course, we always have a sipping point. And this week, we're all kind of starting or maybe not starting, but really thinking about Thanksgiving. If you're here in the U.S., we have a little over a week before Thanksgiving is here.

So on my website, The Wine Coach, if you click on blog and you go to my latest post, which will be about this episode, I am going to have a whole host of Thanksgiving resources for you. Everything from pairing ideas, how to properly carve your turkey, my better half Michael Forrester is going to show you, and it's not the way you think and you see on TV. So that video is going to be huge. And then if you love stuffing, but your household is split, oyster

sausage plain. We have a great idea for you. They're called stuff in muffins and that's what we do. We have several types of stuffing and everybody can choose what muffin of stuff in they want. That's hard to say but good thing I haven't had any wine yet. Anyway all that's going to be on the wine coach dot com. Just go to the blog and the post about this episode with Erica Crawford of Love Block Wine. So I'm super excited for that. And coming up on this

December 4th, I have a virtual wine tasting, a bubbly bash for 2024, some great sparkling wines for Christmas, New Year's, the holidays, and beyond because I love sparkling wine all the time. You can join me. Just go to thewinecoach.com, click on events. You can register for the tasting. I'll give you a list of wines that I'll be tasting you can have on hand or you can just bring your favorite wine. Invite as many people over as you want to.

Laurie Forster (02:07.752)

to take part in the tasting and it's just gonna be a blast. That's December 4th, it's the Bubbly Bash 2024. Well, this week's sipping point, I'm bringing to the table in honor of our next guest, the Love Block Sauvignon Blanc from Marlborough, New Zealand. And Sauvignon Blanc is actually a great choice for Thanksgiving and for just lots of different cuisine, whether it be sushi, seafood, or lean meats like turkey.

with some great sides. Now I said stuffing earlier, my favorite stuffing is oyster stuffing and oysters and sauvignon blanc are just such a great pairing. And I wanted to just share this sauvignon blanc a little bit with you. Really nice pale lemon. We'll talk more when we get Erica on the line, but she's really dedicated to organic farming. And what I love about this is some New Zealand sauvignon blancs can be super over the top. I love

her style a little bit more conservative, little bit leaner, but you've got pineapple, you've got some tropical fruit, but it doesn't hit you over the head, and even some herbal notes like basil and things like that. I'm gonna take a little sip.

Laurie Forster (03:29.61)

You've got this crisp acidity, which is gonna make it food friendly to go with the myriad of things you're gonna have on your Thanksgiving table if you're celebrating or really for any dinner party. As far as one of the favorite whites in the US and maybe even in North America, Sauvignon Blanc is way up there. And this is one I highly recommend from Love Block and we'll get lots more from Erica when she comes. One of the things you'll notice about

her wines and this wine as we move forward in the episode is that they're all under screw cap. Screw cap is no longer social suicide. These are great. These screw caps for wines you're going to drink in the short term. And Erica is going to make the argument they're great for aging wines as well. So don't think that's weird that you see screw caps. I know some of us love the romance of natural corks, but they really

really are such a great closure. And if you open this bottle, you screw cap that very tightly after a glass or two and keep it in your fridge, it's going to last for a good number of days. So I give them an A plus on that. And a little bit of a tip, if you are opening your screw capped wines, don't necessarily just power off the top part of the cap. Grab this bottom part and I'll post the video on my YouTube and some of my other

social channels. You grab this bottom part, I call it the neck, and you twist and break the neck, which makes the cap coming off super easy. So grab the bottom part of the metal piece that the cap is on, twist it real quick, break the neck, and then you're good to go. Awesome. I love this Sauvignon Blanc, crisp acidity, pineapple, tropical fruits, as I said. And I think if you love Sauvignon Blanc, you're going to really

dig this one and be excited about it. Also, I wanted to let you guys know as you if you've been listening for a while, as you know, we are ad free and in order to keep it that way, I just wanted to encourage you if you find value in these episodes, if you enjoy the show, which I hope you do, you can go to our podcast website and support and I would love your support if you enjoy listening and you want to help us continue to have these great episodes.

Laurie Forster (05:58.97)

You can support for as little as three dollars a month and I would really appreciate it. Okay. I want to introduce our next guest is Erica Crawford, who is co-founder of the Kim Crawford Winery. You probably know them. They're one of the biggest brands out of New Zealand. She helped start that brand with her husband, Kim, and later sold it to Constellation Brands. After doing that, they decided they really wanted to dedicate and start a new brand called Love

block that was dedicated to single vineyard and organic and biodynamic farming. And so I'm so excited to have her. She has been in the business and just one of the women that I totally look up to. She's a mentor to other women winemakers and I'm so excited to have her on the show.

Laurie Forster (00:01.464)

Erica Crawford, welcome to The Sipping Point. I'm so excited to have you here.

Erica Crawford (00:06.798)

Thank you, Laurie. It's so exciting to meet you as well, finally.

Laurie Forster (00:11.121)

Well, you're sort of a female icon. I don't know if you feel that, but that's what I'm calling you here after creating and co-founding one of the most successful New Zealand brands out there, Kim Crawford, and now starting your second brand, Love Block. Tell me a little bit about that journey and how you wanted to really focus Love Block differently than you did your brand in the past.

Erica Crawford (00:37.902)

So, Crawford, course, you know, it was such exciting times for New Zealand wine because it was right at the beginning and people had no idea where New Zealand was in the first place. And the flavours from Sauvignon Blanc that came were just so big and bright and you know when you give a kid Coca-Cola for the first time, for instance, the wonder on their faces, people had really had that response. And so that was really exciting.

We worked mainly in the US because we have two toddlers and we couldn't really afford the time or the money away to go to Europe with the the UK it's a natural sort of allegiance with New Zealand, but we chose to go to the US and And you know the funny thing is about the explosion of New Zealand's seven-year-blank is It sort of happening in about 2003 to us. Yeah ish

And you know what happened then was actually Lord of the Rings started winning a lot of Oscars and gongs and by then New Zealand, middle America became aware of New Zealand and then the whole thing just went and by then Kim Crawford had really good distributions. So there was a bit of luck, a bit of good timing and a lot of hard work in that.

Laurie Forster (01:35.515)

Mm.

Erica Crawford (01:58.286)

But you know it's now been, when did we hand it over to Constellation, 2007. there's been a little bit of water running under the bridge and I think they're doing a good job.

Laurie Forster (02:08.13)

Yeah.

Yes, that is a few years, right? Seems like yesterday, but you're right. It is an iconic brand that, you know, put New Zealand Sauvignon Blancs on the map and maybe even New Zealand winemaking for that matter on the map. I got engaged in New Zealand, so it is a place that's in Coopers Beach in the North Island. And so I have been there. I did not get to your winery, of course, but I hope to do that next time. It is an absolutely beautiful place.

Erica Crawford (02:26.433)

it.

Laurie Forster (02:39.81)

now you've started LoveBlock and we're going to taste three of your amazing wines. So tell me what you wanted to do differently with LoveBlock and then we're going to taste your Pinot Gris first, but just sort of how you, you know, your focus, your vision for the LoveBlock brand.

Erica Crawford (02:57.934)

Well, of course the approach from a business point of view is entirely different. With Kim Crawford, we were really the first people.

to do that what we call the grower model, big and good, in that we bought from growers, we made it at someone else's winery, bottled it at someone else's winery. All we really did was to make a brand and make the wine to put in the brand. So there was not the preamble of bricks and mortar. So that actually made it quite affordable and easy. Now, of course, the majority of New Zealand wines or wine brands are run in that way. And it's a really good model. really profitable.

model. And so the second time around I suppose it's a little bit more grounding for me. you know I think organics has always been quite important to me and gradually started changing my life in my 30s. So this was really the opportunity to live my values. So it was the obvious thing to do this organically.

Laurie Forster (03:55.663)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Crawford (03:55.938)

You know, we experience practitioners now. We've been doing it since 2008. So we've learned a lot. We've made a lot of mistakes. But I think the beautiful thing that I see in the wines now is as the vines are getting older and the impact of organics and the impact of single vignette really shows us a different balance and a different level in the wine. gives it also, you'll see particularly, we'll do the Pinot Grigio now, is the texture. I really think organic wine

Laurie Forster (04:24.988)

Mmm.

Erica Crawford (04:26.386)

zaps a little bit in.

Laurie Forster (04:29.53)

Lovely. All right. Well, let's do that then as we're getting into it. I have the Pinot Gris and I'll just

Erica Crawford (04:36.494)

sure we do.

Laurie Forster (04:36.656)

This will be podcast audio, also some people, yeah, we'll watch it on the video. So tell me, know, I think we connected over a video that you made actually on Instagram. And I love your Instagram posts about Pinot Grigio versus Pinot Gris because it is the same grape, but the expression of it from your, you know, what you produce in New Zealand versus an Italian Pinot Grigio is so different. Tell me about this wine and, and what you,

Erica Crawford (05:03.544)

Yeah, you're right.

Laurie Forster (05:07.812)

what you hope to achieve with it and what we have.

Erica Crawford (05:11.022)

So obviously with Pinot Grigio, they pick the grapes quite early, so around about 19 bricks. We pick it much later, so we pick it about 22, 23. And because the flavors of Pinot Gris are actually quite delicate, so you've got to wait for the flavors to come on.

Laurie Forster (05:17.148)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Crawford (05:29.654)

And then I think the Alsace producers even grow a little bit longer. What we've seen with stressed vines, such as in organic management and some vine age, is that you can manage the alcohol and the sugar much better. So you don't have to go to 24 bricks to get the flavor profile that you want. We see that we can pick it earlier now. We get the flavors that we want. Therefore, we have less sugar and therefore we have less alcohol.

Laurie Forster (05:51.612)

Hmm.

Erica Crawford (05:59.055)

So yeah, so I think, here, she's giving me the shivers so early in the morning. You'll see that it's basically a beautiful delicate fruit bowl of, for me it's always melons wrapped in prosciutto, where we are, we've got a slight savory tone at the nuance at the back of the wine.

Laurie Forster (05:59.461)

I love that.

Laurie Forster (06:06.844)

I

Laurie Forster (06:15.17)

yes.

Erica Crawford (06:23.864)

So this vineyard's been unorganized now for 17 years. And we can see there's a layer in there that's not clean stainless steel because we use a portion of the wine goes in ferments and concrete egg and also in old oak. So we're quite happy to forego big aromatics for texture.

Laurie Forster (06:33.006)

Mm. Yes.

Laurie Forster (06:48.73)

I was going to say, I love that it just seems so balanced all around. Like I love the smooth roundness of it. You have the acidity there, but it's not the smack your in the face acidity that you get with some New Zealand Sauvignon Blancs. But it has that lovely, delicate melon and other flavors on the palate that just seem to all come together. I'm a huge Pinot Gris fan, whether it's Alsatian. I love this. also love...

Erica Crawford (06:59.982)

Mmm.

Laurie Forster (07:19.847)

I don't know if you drink these as well. Yeah, and so different the way it expresses. I don't know if people would necessarily say New Zealand, what grapes? They wouldn't probably come up with Pinot Gris right away, but definitely I think people should give this a try. What's your favorite cuisine or pairing if you were to have some food with this?

Erica Crawford (07:20.974)

quite similar in style, isn't it? Quite similar in style. And so different.

Erica Crawford (07:46.466)

You know, I think it's for me, it's that beautiful Friday night wine. We just gives me joy. So it's perfectly good by itself. But with food, because the flavors aren't big and screaming, it's really good with things like Cambodian food with Japanese food, know, all your sushi's and sashimi's are just really if you have a little bit of pickled ginger in there, just lift the sweet fruit flavors in the wine. So I definitely have seen an uptick in interest in sales in the US in the last

Laurie Forster (07:52.58)

Mmm.

Laurie Forster (08:04.025)

Okay.

Erica Crawford (08:16.852)

four years or so and I think it's because Oregon is becoming a lot more prominent. So people becoming aware of Pinot Gris and not only thinking like they're to get something you know more linear and steely like typical Pinot Gris.

Laurie Forster (08:24.421)

Yes.

Laurie Forster (08:32.156)

Love that. And I notice all of your wines, and this is probably not...

you know, big deal for you, but all screw caps, of course, and the New Zealanders, the Australian winemakers, you guys have been using the screw caps for so long. It's taken some other regions a while to kind of catch on. And still there's a little bit of resistance here when someone sees a screw cap versus a cork. Why do you feel like the screw cap is perfect for your wines?

Erica Crawford (08:59.938)

know, it's pretty right.

Erica Crawford (09:04.354)

You know, we found, we've still got some of the old King Crawford wines and an O2 Riesling for instance is absolutely still, of course it's developed, but it's still together and beautiful. I think the development happens a little bit more slowly under screw cap, but you can keep that wine going for years, you know.

Laurie Forster (09:24.174)

Love that. And speaking of that, how long would someone if they invested in getting a case say of this Pinot Gris, how long would you typically say this would sell or last for?

Erica Crawford (09:38.477)

Five, six, 10, 15 years. Yeah.

Laurie Forster (09:41.422)

Okay, wonderful. Because people, I think, are always wondering, you know, if I buy a bottle, is this worth it to save or do I need to drink it right away? So that's, I think that's helpful. And I'm a huge sushi fan, so I love the idea of this Pinot Gris and sushi. Now I'm getting hungry. Because here it's almost dinnertime, so.

Erica Crawford (09:57.902)

Yeah, go for it. I want to tell you a little trick with the screw cap. You know, it lasts for about two weeks in the fridge if you keep it closed. So you don't have to do it. Yeah, it's definitely preserved. Don't worry about it. Just keep it in the fridge.

Laurie Forster (10:03.739)

Yes.

Laurie Forster (10:11.14)

Okay. So no worry about preserving it with, you know, the vacuums and all those things. Okay. Perfect. And that, is a nice plus over a cork, you know, traditional cork where then you're going to have to fi- find something because that cork is not going to be the best closure to keep it.

Erica Crawford (10:29.804)

Yeah, I had a beautiful bottle of South African chenille blanc the other night and I two glasses, put it in the fridge with a cork in and the next day, unfortunately, it had oxidised. So that's the difference, yeah.

Laurie Forster (10:43.212)

No, just reminding you to finish the bottle next time. Love that. All right. So I know, you we've talked, you touched a little bit about the organ, your focus on organic. And we're going to taste one of your Sauvignon Blancs that you do some really unique things to preserve it and avoid adding any sulfites. But

Erica Crawford (10:47.476)

Absolutely.

Laurie Forster (11:08.9)

you're also vegan friendly as I see on your bottles as well. And people laugh sometimes when I talk about vegan wines, because they're like, well, it's grape, so it's all vegan. So tell me a little bit about what, and you have a great designation on the bottle so people know that it's vegan friendly. What does that mean? Why isn't it vegan to start with?

Erica Crawford (11:28.534)

If you asked me this 20 years ago, I would have never thought we'd do that, because I just didn't think it'd ever be a thing. But our daughter went vegan at about age 16, 17, and she really pushed us into that direction.

Laurie Forster (11:38.363)

Right.

Erica Crawford (11:50.106)

with more products available now. So we just really replace the old traditional things like ice and glass gel with pea protein in the floating. And so it's quite easy.

Laurie Forster (11:59.686)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (12:04.506)

And if people don't know, tell them what the icing glass.

Erica Crawford (12:09.292)

Icing glass is something they use to basically use in wine to pick up muck. And it's actually fish gut. And the other thing is gelatin. So.

Laurie Forster (12:25.894)

Mm-hmm.

Erica Crawford (12:27.275)

After the press it goes to a tank and then all the muck floats to the top and it sticks in this gelatin and now in the pea protein. So it's quite easy to get it off the rest of the good stuff that you want from the top of the bottle.

Laurie Forster (12:35.793)

bright.

Laurie Forster (12:41.056)

Yes. Now we're going to move and tasting our TEE Sauvignon Blanc. I know you're going to tell us all about it, but real quick, and this is probably an easy question, the label, tell me a little bit about the flowers here. Are these have to do with your cover crops and those sorts of things? Or what prompted this label? Because it is so beautiful.

Erica Crawford (13:04.824)

It's quite interesting, know, if you look at any organic vineyard, it always looks scruffy. You know, there's always weeds and things growing under the vines. And if you look at a vineyard that's got herbicide sprays, it's very tidy under the vines, but there's also nothing growing.

And, you know, of course when we did this label, I wanted to do something else, but it was too gloomy. And that's the first thing you see in an organic vineyard really is the dandelion. And if you don't mow your lawn, that's the first thing that will pop up. And it's actually quite a useful little thing. And here's a sweet story that I didn't know that I learned from David Attenborough is that the...

The dandelion is the only plant that holds all three of the celestial bodies that affect our daily lives. So obviously the sun is the little petal, I mean is the little yellow flower and you know, I don't know if you do yoga.

Laurie Forster (13:55.054)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (13:59.932)

I have done, yes. Yes.

Erica Crawford (14:00.088)

but you do the sun salutation in the morning because the little flower opens, it closes at night and then it opens at sunrise and it follows the sun and all the energy that it brings. The moon is represented by the seed puff. And of course in our lives, it actually makes quite a difference, you know, how we do things. For instance, it has an effect on the different days and...

Laurie Forster (14:14.857)

yes.

Erica Crawford (14:28.775)

when we pump things like when you bottle when you pump over and that sort of stuff it's all affected by the moon

Laurie Forster (14:32.474)

Yes, so the lunar cycle, I know we talked a little bit about biodynamics with some other winemakers. Love that.

Erica Crawford (14:38.636)

Yeah, it's really important. And when we put certain applications on, and then the stars, are those little seeds flying about. And of course, if you show me one person who hasn't had a peek at these stars in their lives, I'll go boo.

Laurie Forster (14:47.95)

Laurie Forster (14:54.74)

Yeah, I

Erica Crawford (14:54.894)

And that really does affect, it does affect how, you know, we, for instance, we try to pick the grapes on a fruit day. The grapes definitely taste differently on a fruit day to a root day. So they're four days, fruit, flower, root, and, and, root and leaf.

Laurie Forster (15:14.575)

Okay.

Erica Crawford (15:15.062)

all the stars and the configuration etc. if you taste, if you have your beloved wine, La Proxame Blanc for instance, and you taste it yesterday and was beautiful and today it just tastes a little bit, almost, it almost goes a little bit more...

Laurie Forster (15:24.262)

Yes.

Erica Crawford (15:31.79)

a bit more acidic and bit more stroppy, shall I say, then go on the internet and Google biodynamic calendar. And then that will tell you whether you're in a fruit day, root day, leaf day or flower day. Yeah. So go for the... Yeah. Yeah.

Laurie Forster (15:40.699)

Wow.

Laurie Forster (15:44.728)

Interesting. So even when you're tasting the wine, this cycle affects. I have not heard that before. That's a new one. Yeah.

Erica Crawford (15:52.566)

I can see it quite clearly when I visit the US, know, when we, for five days in a row, you taste the same wines, say, four times a day. And sometimes they're just spectacular, icy cold, seven o'clock in the morning. And other days they just, you know, on the root days, I feel they go a little more grungy and a little bit more bold. Then on the leaf days, they're just almost more stroppy, you know, they kick back. But they just really open up on those fruit days. So check it out, it really makes a difference.

Laurie Forster (16:11.844)

Mmm.

Laurie Forster (16:17.084)

That's so interesting.

Laurie Forster (16:21.954)

I will. So tell me about the TEE Sauvignon Blanc because this is so interesting. I've never heard of what you're doing with the replacement for the sulfites or the sulfur as used as a preservative, but you're using a tea extract, a tannin extract from tea. And I'd love to know more about how you came upon doing this and what it does for the wine.

Erica Crawford (16:49.336)

So if you taste Love Block Semenum Bloks straight up, you'll see that it hasn't got the big flavours that you usually associate it, not this one. So it's softer. So we think that organic grape growing and organic wine making, because there's a lot of things you don't use, you're not allowed to use. So the inputs are very little. And it's softer.

Laurie Forster (16:57.808)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (17:12.54)

Mm.

Erica Crawford (17:12.566)

So our next question was, well, if we don't add sulfides, the little bit that we do, what will happen then? And that was the question. So we were chasing the flavors. So what will happen to the flavors?

the same time, we became aware of a product in the catalogue of one of our suppliers, know, that supplies with yeasts and sulfites and all sorts of things. In the winery, they have this product that they've always used on rotten grapes. And it happens in wineries, know, mean, in vineyards. If the weather turns a little bit too humid, then you get this rot and it's a small part of a cluster. Anyway, so that product blocks the enzyme that causes oxidation.

Laurie Forster (17:48.732)

Mmm.

Erica Crawford (17:55.2)

So we figured it must work. So we had a little trial run in 2018. And the product is tannin extracted from green tea leaves by a really high grade steam method.

and it's basically pharmaceutical grade and so every time the wine is exposed to oxygen it gets a dollop of this tannin and we chose green tea we looked at several other teas tannins we chose the green tea tannin because it has least interference with flavor it doesn't have any

flavor transfer, it doesn't have any color transfer, but the effect is so in on this side you'll see love blocks in your blank and on this side is the tea. You see there's quite a difference in color. Yeah, yeah.

Laurie Forster (18:40.666)

Yes, I was going to ask about that.

Erica Crawford (18:45.55)

And if you have one of these in front of you, you'll see that it is quite different. So the first thing we noted was sort of almost an agave note on the nose. Can you get that? And people automatically, when you hear green tea, people say, yeah, I can taste the green tea. But it's not really the green tea. It's a vineyard note. So we did a controlled trial in the research winery where we had, under strictly controlled conditions. So the only things that changed was

Laurie Forster (19:02.287)

Mm-hmm.

Aha.

Erica Crawford (19:15.874)

all from the same vineyard, two bins made exactly the same way, the only changes were the standard, the one had no SO2 or tannins, so no preservative, the one had sulfites and it was tasted exactly like mulberry, so in your blunt and the one at the tea tannin. The one with the tea tannin and the no addition had the same notes.

Laurie Forster (19:41.574)

Wow.

Erica Crawford (19:41.878)

One where we had no T, no tannin or no SO2 in obviously went off quite quickly. But here you get sort of a garvey note and more things like for me, saffron and a bit of cumin and mandarin today, isn't it?

Laurie Forster (19:47.665)

Yeah.

Laurie Forster (19:55.664)

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Erica Crawford (20:03.214)

And then in your mouth, you get that get back of peach. In our little area, where our vineyards are, so we only use, so we only stake proposition, so we only use our own grapes. And it has a beautiful peach flavor. But we surround it by big companies. And unfortunately, all the vineyards from there go into their big blends. So no one sees this beautiful peach flavor that you get there. So it's quite different.

Laurie Forster (20:15.003)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (20:20.155)

Yes.

Laurie Forster (20:29.307)

It really is lovely. And no, and the color right away, was like, whoa, okay. You know, I noticed, yeah. And that's just from using the tea extract. Okay.

Erica Crawford (20:31.692)

and it's not oxidized.

Erica Crawford (20:36.786)

more developed.

Erica Crawford (20:41.486)

The tannin. Yeah. So it is a legitimate, you know, it's a winery product made by a company in Italy. And it's got all the, you know, the accreditations, food regulations, wine regulations, that sort of stuff. So it's just really quite interesting to see what it does to flavor. I think it makes a big difference. So if you were to have these two in your hand, this...

Laurie Forster (21:03.802)

Yes.

What a great side-by-side tasting.

Erica Crawford (21:07.97)

This one got a small bit of SO2, this one got the tannin, they like two completely different wines.

Laurie Forster (21:14.19)

And so change changes the color, obviously has a little obviously effect on the taste and the aromas that we smelled. But is the is the idea that this is a healthier option than sulfites or or just you wanted to try something different as an experimental?

Erica Crawford (21:34.99)

Yeah, as we've learned with organic winemaking is that you can't use a lot of the stuff that you would usually use. So we intervene very little. So we use very little. So it's not as hard. It's a step away from natural wine because we did add the tannin. So we can't say it's natural wine. Yeah.

Laurie Forster (21:50.446)

Okay, gotcha.

Erica Crawford (21:53.346)

But we're purely doing it for flavor. I stay away from health and wine because it's always an issue. We have to be very careful what we say. But what it does do is to give you a much softer palate. A softer, almost a more viscous palate.

Laurie Forster (21:58.81)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (22:04.516)

Yeah, and there's studies on either side.

Laurie Forster (22:12.612)

Mm-hmm. It's really beautiful.

Laurie Forster (22:19.278)

And are all of these, I know for sure I've had your Sauvignon Blanc in my market, are all of these already that we're tasting through available in the US pretty widely? Okay, wonderful.

Erica Crawford (22:31.31)

They are. Yeah, yeah, they are. They are. I know you in Pennsylvania aren't Maryland, okay, yeah, they're definitely there. And the tea, you'll have to have a look at your local store. That's not as widely available, I know that wine.com has it, so it's easy enough to buy from there.

Laurie Forster (22:37.603)

Maryland, so not far yet.

Laurie Forster (22:48.038)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (22:54.778)

And so just to give folks an idea of the scope of the winery, case-wise, how many cases are you producing? How limited are these different wines that we're tasting?

Erica Crawford (23:11.48)

So we would be classified as a small winery in the US. We make about 49,000 cases because the US is a big place. You can't only go in with 500 bottles. And we grow all our own grapes. So that will be the natural cap when all the vineyards are, when there's no more space to expand into.

Laurie Forster (23:19.589)

Okay.

Yes.

Right.

Laurie Forster (23:35.003)

Right.

Erica Crawford (23:35.842)

That's really important to us because, as I say, you can see year in and year out how the flavors differ. So you really have a look at the terroir, the climate. And we control the viticulture because it's so easy to do something wrong with organics. And then you lose accreditation. And it takes four years to get it back. So yeah, we've got a very dedicated team looking after that.

Laurie Forster (23:53.637)

Right.

Laurie Forster (24:01.626)

Yeah, and I wanted to show on the...

the bottle itself, I know it seems that New Zealand has its own designation that is on the back label as far as, I think one of the things for consumers that I hear when I do events and going around the country is that it's confusing for people to go into a store and look at bottles and know if a wine is organic or biodynamic or sustainable and there's so many terms.

Erica Crawford (24:31.15)

It's very difficult. So that very same wine, for me, has got the organic accreditation to the rest of the world.

Laurie Forster (24:41.496)

Okay. Interesting.

Erica Crawford (24:42.53)

Yeah, it's because the US organic rules are slightly different and they deem it's because we use this tannin that hasn't been registered as an organic product yet. And that's the difficulty. You'll find very little product that's fully organic USDA because you cannot add any SO2 and most the wine is quite variable then.

Laurie Forster (24:53.326)

Interesting. Okay.

Erica Crawford (25:06.49)

We're hoping that they would accredit this tannin and then we can put that organic thing on there. I think you just have to trust the producer. You can also taste, you it's generally a little bit more soft. will also use another thing you can have a look at is somewhere on the label. me just find a US label. It will say made with organically grown grapes. So that's what you look out for.

Laurie Forster (25:06.79)

Gotcha.

Laurie Forster (25:10.894)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (25:14.3)

Yeah.

Laurie Forster (25:18.383)

Yes.

Laurie Forster (25:33.188)

Yes. Yes, it is on the back of my bottle. Yep.

Erica Crawford (25:37.26)

Yeah, so look up, that's a lookout. Yeah.

Laurie Forster (25:40.664)

Okay, perfect. Quick question for you, talking about Sauvignon Blanc in general, New Zealand.

and tell me if I'm wrong on this, I feel like I love that you're really trying to keep these as dry as possible, as natural as possible, of course, organic. You're trying out these different preservative options, but I feel like there is a certain part of the market that the wines are almost getting sweet.

some of the Sauvignon Blancs almost like overly like, whoa, like what is happening? And I know one of the things you wanted to talk about is the different styles of Sauvignon Blanc. Are you trying to sort of, you know, rein that back in and have a more leaner style, I guess?

Erica Crawford (26:23.31)

Yeah.

Erica Crawford (26:34.111)

So, you know when you sniff some of your blunk, you often smell jalapeno or asparagus or bell pepper. So that's caused by one flavor component. And in New Zealand, the concentration of that in our grapes is really high. And then, and I can speak from experience because we made the yardstick after all, that's called the pyrazines.

Laurie Forster (26:44.88)

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (26:53.103)

Okay.

Laurie Forster (27:00.284)

Mm.

Erica Crawford (27:01.582)

you can enhance them in the vineyard and you can enhance the fruit, the peach, etc. by other means in the winery. So we don't do any of those. In fact, we're trying to pull the green flavours back. So if you have the straight up Loft Block Sauvignon Blanc,

Laurie Forster (27:17.434)

to.

Erica Crawford (27:20.822)

of course it's some of blunk and there'll be herbaceous flavours but you'll get more peach, pineapple, lemon and so on as opposed to asparagus and those flavours. I think the big thing is that in my view, sulphites also has a lot to do with the big flavours and the sharpness of marbrusilium blunk because when you add sulphites it's like it puts a little blanket over the flavours at that point in time that you bottle it.

Laurie Forster (27:48.569)

Hmm

Erica Crawford (27:49.452)

We've now done that controlled experiment, I can tell you, it's the wines are a lot more, it feels a lot more acidic, and it just captures those flavors quite quickly. And because you add it before bottling, the flavors are not quite developed yet. So it does tend to taste more green than not. So if you let it flow, then you see it's showing itself more beautifully as it does in this tea.

Laurie Forster (28:06.544)

Mmm.

Laurie Forster (28:14.79)

Love that. Both of these whites absolutely love it. In the beginning of the show, we tasted the main Marlboro Sauvignon Blanc, which is also delicious. And I think getting these two and tasting them side by side, the tea and the the

and the regular sulfite one would be such a fun activity, you know, to have friends over and have a dinner. In Maryland here, we're all about our seafood and I feel like these wines would be really great with seafood as well. So if you get to this market, let me know and I will have my husband make you some great crab because that's our thing. Maryland crabs is a big deal here. Yes, that's the best. Now, people seem to really,

Erica Crawford (28:36.599)

Yeah.

Erica Crawford (28:42.167)

Yes.

Erica Crawford (28:54.342)

Yes, the best, the best.

Laurie Forster (29:02.218)

60-40 gravitate a lot towards red wine in this country. And so I think it's great that we also have your Pinot Noir. Now, while all of these wines that we've tasted so far are from the Marlboro region in the north part of the South Island, this is in the southern part of the South Island, central Otago, which, if I remember correctly from my Psalm training, this is one of the southernmost wine regions in the world.

Erica Crawford (29:32.46)

Yeah.

Laurie Forster (29:33.419)

Yeah, and so I thought we would have that as our finale in the tasting, but so you own vineyards both in the Marlboro and then also down in central Otago as well.

Erica Crawford (29:46.754)

That's right, yeah, we do. You know, I think for us, we think it's important to have Pinot Noir from Central because the intensity of flavor there is just quite special because, you know, it's a little bit like growing grapes in Aspen, big, huge alpine region with lakes and...

Laurie Forster (30:04.124)

Mm.

Erica Crawford (30:08.68)

know, snowing in winter and then being quite warm in summer. it's semi-arid. And I think the flavors we get from there are quite generous. So here I'm pouring it.

Laurie Forster (30:19.099)

Wonderful.

Laurie Forster (30:22.766)

It smells wonderful, lots of cherry and warm notes. I love that.

Erica Crawford (30:29.196)

Lots of cherry and just a little bit of smokiness. And I think this will be perfect for your turkey. Thanksgiving's coming up, isn't it? Yeah, with cranberry sauce.

Laurie Forster (30:33.84)

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Forster (30:37.672)

yes, perfect. And that's coming up.

Really, think I love the idea of having the Sauvignon Blanc and the Pinot Noir as you know, because sometimes people want white sometimes people want red but both of these wines, Sauvignon Blanc, the Pinot Gris for that matter have great fruit, the acidity to match what's on the table. But Pinot I always think of as just the perfect Thanksgiving turkey is kind of neutral if you think of it, but it's a lean meat. So yeah, you don't want capia.

Erica Crawford (30:50.178)

Yeah.

Erica Crawford (31:10.038)

It's neutral, yeah, yeah. Not in the middle of the day.

Laurie Forster (31:11.902)

Bernays Sauvignon, I wouldn't. No, no. So tell me about your take on Pino.

Erica Crawford (31:21.37)

So, I mean, again, it's really placing emphasis on fruit. This little vineyard is also certified organic. We grow five clones just to give it a range of flavors, you know, from the bright red flavors to the deep berries and then to the big black cherries. And then we use clone five in there just to give it some more structure. So all up, it's, I think it's, I mean, it's an easy wine to drink, isn't it?

Laurie Forster (31:49.592)

It really is. It's just so all that grapefruit on the palette enough acidity that's going to be food friendly, but soft and and round on the finish. Yeah.

Erica Crawford (31:50.69)

Yeah.

Erica Crawford (32:00.859)

Just a little bit of tannin at the back. We use a very light touch on the oak. Otherwise you've got to really put it away for years and years and years and it's very hard to do these days, isn't it?

Laurie Forster (32:14.221)

Yes, I think the studies are, you know, people buy today what they're going to drink tonight. do, you know, most people are not laying a lot of things down. So I think people do appreciate a wine that's ready to drink, but that can also have some time. But I love your idea of the Thanksgiving. And then just to take a nod, I don't know, have you had a chance to go out to the Willamette Valley of Oregon?

Erica Crawford (32:21.528)

Yeah.

Erica Crawford (32:24.972)

Yeah.

Erica Crawford (32:36.96)

I have been there twice, yes.

Laurie Forster (32:38.724)

Yes, so one of the things that I experienced there and a couple weeks ago we had a

Jim Burneau from Willamette Valley Vineyards and then also Melissa Burr from Stoler Vineyards. But one of the things that happened when I visited was I tried salmon with Pinot Noir. This was years ago and I had never thought to do that. just seemed, ooh, fish and red. Way back when when I tried this the first time, it was eye-opening and I think this would also be, I love having salmon for the healthy aspects and the taste of it and all of those things, so I eat it quite often.

Erica Crawford (32:57.848)

Amazing. Yeah.

Laurie Forster (33:16.216)

would be such a great pairing with that as well.

Erica Crawford (33:18.978)

think it's quite a versatile wine. You can take it from even the fishy fish and then salmon right through to lamb and those lentil dishes that I cook such a lot of these days, right through to your big steak. And I learned a little trick from a chef at the CIA one year. He, have a sip of your wine, have a bit of your steak, then put some lemon on the steak and see how much better the wine tastes.

Laurie Forster (33:24.528)

Yes.

Laurie Forster (33:36.571)

Yes.

Laurie Forster (33:47.196)

Mmm.

I love that. Yeah, because the acidity matches the acidity in the wine and then you bring out more flavors in the in the wine. That's so great. That's where my husband went as well. So that's fabulous. Now, speaking of schooling, did see and maybe just to like round out this interview because I know thank you so much for your time here. I did see that you are a mentor to other women who are getting into the wine business and winemaking and

Erica Crawford (33:52.044)

Yeah.

Erica Crawford (33:55.854)

Yeah.

Erica Crawford (34:01.635)

Laurie Forster (34:17.776)

Maybe you just want to touch on that. think that's fabulous. It's so amazing here in the US to see so many more women entering all facets really of the wine business, but certainly winemaking. I love to see that.

Erica Crawford (34:31.982)

Yeah, I think it's, you know, through my lifetime, which is a long one, when I was young, there were certain expectations that were just put on a woman. And we worked really hard to change some things and but still.

Laurie Forster (34:38.182)

Yeah.

Erica Crawford (34:49.706)

It's the assumed characteristic and the assumed duties that's placed on women. Sometimes it's just a look or an exclusion. It's most often unconscious bias. I don't care. I call it out. That's what I love about being old, older. You just don't care a tot anymore.

Laurie Forster (35:06.104)

Mm-hmm. Great. I love that. Yeah, I love that. Well. You're not old. You're not old. It is true, though. I mean, as as we mature, I guess, if you want to use that word, you get more confident to just say what you what you believe, and you're not as worried about what people think of you, which is very freeing. It's very freeing. So.

Erica Crawford (35:33.26)

Yeah, I can now be that eccentric old lady, you know, and drive my car for 50 years if I feel like it, which is exactly what I'm doing.

Laurie Forster (35:40.29)

I love it. you, Erica, you've been such a breath of fresh air. I've loved tasting all of these wines, love black, love black wines. And I will put on my show page a link to your website and we'll be putting this out everywhere so people can see and hear all the great wisdom that you shared with us. And I just thank you so much for joining us here on The Sipping Point. And maybe we could do a little toast and just say cheers. Cheers from Maryland to you in New Zealand.

Erica Crawford (36:08.728)

Cheers to Maryland and happy Thanksgiving. I know it's a little early, but happiness to America. Yeah.

Laurie Forster (36:10.296)

Cheers.

Laurie Forster (36:16.1)

Yes. Yeah, pick up your Love Black wines for Thanksgiving because it's coming up very quickly. All right. Thank you so much.

Erica Crawford (36:23.416)

Thanks so much, Laurie.

Laurie Forster (00:02.398)

Awesome. I so enjoyed having Erica and sharing her with you. If you want to check out more about her wines, go to loveblockwine.com and you can see everything she's doing. She has a great Instagram handle and she does videos all the time. So go ahead and follow her out there on Instagram as well. And speaking of following, I hope you're following my podcast, The Sipping Point on Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, or wherever you get your

podcast. We'll be posting video clips on Instagram, YouTube, and even TikTok. So check me out, the wine coach, and find me out there. TikTok, I'm at Laurie Forrester. Again, we're hoping to keep this podcast ad free. So if you wanted to show your support, you can check that out on my website and on the podcast website for as little as $3 a month. If you get value, we'd love to have you support.

And as always, if you have ideas for shows, for guests, for topics, email me at lori at thewinecoach.com. Don't forget to sign up for my December 4th virtual tasting, the Bubbly Bash 2024, where I'm gonna introduce you to some of my favorite bubblies for the holidays and beyond. And lastly, as my gift to you, if you want to get my free video series, Samoyed Secrets, just go to thewinecoatssecrets.com.

put in your email address and I will email you those video series about tasting, serving, and enjoying wine right to your inbox. And until next time, keep on sipping.

Laurie Forster (01:54.02)

And until next time, I look forward to seeing you soon.