RBERNing Questions

From Invisible to Visible: Changing the World One Student at a Time with Principal Samantha Power Pugh

• Yasmeen Coaxum • Season 3 • Episode 1

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Episode Summary:
Are you “Illuminating the voices of the voiceless” through your teaching? If not and you want to know how, listening to this episode is a must!
Principal Samantha “Power” Pugh kicks off this episode by giving us a wealth of information on the Off School Grounds (OSG) educational leadership group, including over 150 principals, superintendents, school leaders, and chancellors. She highlights her head, hand & heart leadership style and shares how the simple questions: “How are you doing?” and “Are you okay?” can be transformative in the lives of students and administrators, particularly in underserved communities.  She discusses moving from invisibility to visibility due to the care and mentorship of her early educators, and how knowing your purpose can open the door to widespread impact. Whether you’re a principal, an administrator, or an educator thinking about becoming a leader, Principal Power Pugh has some answers for your burning questions.

RBERNing Questions for this Episode:
1- Can you tell us about the four key concepts of courageous leadership and what your consultancy does to help schools implement them?
2- What has been the biggest obstacle in trying to get schools to make the necessary shifts to make sure that children are “supported emotionally, challenged academically, and empowered socially?”
3- What would you say to teachers who really want to make the leap toward leadership within their schools or districts?

Bio:
Ms. Pugh is a proud native New Yorker who has dedicated her life to education and believes wholeheartedly that all students should have access to a high-quality education that prepares them for college and beyond. A self-proclaimed equity warrior, and as a first-generation college graduate, she believes that by creating an environment where children are supported emotionally, challenged academically, and empowered socially, every child can succeed beyond their dreams. Her commitment to education is a “true calling” and she is highly driven to ensure that every child, regardless of zip code, can and will have the tools to succeed. She is determined “to change the world, one student at a time!” She is a transformational leader with 23 years’ experience in all grades. For seven years, Ms. Pugh held the positions of Assistant Principal and Principal in both charter and district schools where she worked to turn-around struggling schools.  She currently is the Chief Education Officer and owner of the educational consulting firm “Cou(rage)ous Solutions” where she continues her work as an equity warrior and disruptor, by supporting schools across the country to strengthen their practices to ensure that all students have access to high quality educational experiences, and they are in affirming school environments where they thrive.
Resources:
Website:
https://www.samanthapugh.org/
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/principal_powerpugh/
Email: courageoussolutionsed@gmail.com
OSG Info:
https://theofficialosg.org/
https://www.instagram.com/theofficialosg/
Transformational Leadership Conference:
https://theofficialosg.org/2023-osg-conference
Black Educators Rock Conference:
https://www.blackeducatorsrock.org/
(Recorded June 2023)

To find out more about Mid-State RBERN at OCM BOCES' services, listen to season 1 of the show with host Collette Farone-Goodwin, or to receive CTLE credit for listening to episodes, click here: https://midstaterbern.org/


Samantha Pugh:

And I think about a lot, my best friend had gotten her doctorate, and a lot of her research was around leaders of color, particularly women in New York City and how this idea of a double tax. Well, and for many of us, a triple tax because most of us go into schools that are struggling, but we get held to the same accountability and the same standards as principals that do not.

Yasmeen:

Welcome to RBERNing Questions, a professional learning podcast where we answer your most compelling questions about teaching, serving, and supporting multilingual learners. I'm your host, Yasmeen Coaxum, and through our talks, I look forward to bringing the methods, philosophies, and stories behind teaching multilingual learners to light. Let's get into the show. Ms. Pugh, aka Principal Power Pugh, is a proud native New Yorker who has dedicated her life to education and believes wholeheartedly that all students should have access to a high quality education that prepares them for college and beyond. A self-proclaimed equity warrior, and a first generation college graduate, she believes that by creating an environment where children are supported emotionally, challenged academically, and empowered socially, every child can succeed beyond their dreams. Her commitment to education is a true calling, and she is highly driven to ensure that every child, regardless of zip code, can and will have the tools to succeed. She is determined to change the world one student at a time. Ms. Pugh is a transformational leader with 23 years of experience in all grades. Throughout her journey in the education field, she has held numerous positions, beginning with several years as a successful classroom teacher. For seven years, Ms. Pugh held the positions of assistant principal and principal in both charter and district schools, where she worked to turn around those that were struggling. She currently is the chief education officer and owner of the educational consulting firm, Courageous Solutions, where she continues her work as an equity warrior and disruptor by supporting schools across the country to strengthen their practices and ensure that all students have access to high quality educational experiences in affirming school environments where they thrive. And we are thrilled to have her on our show today to answer some of your burning questions. Okay, so welcome Principal Samantha Power Pugh. This is how I know you. And before we, get into everything that I want to discuss with you here today, I want to make the audience aware of how we actually met. Okay, so we met through, OSG, Off School Grounds. And Yeah. And, we're going to talk just a little bit about that and what that is, of course, for, for the listeners who may not be familiar with it. But, there were quite a few speakers at the New York State TESOL conference last year that were from the OSG family, right? I was so

Samantha Pugh:

sad I missed that. I was so sad I missed that. But yeah, we were representing. We, when you ask us to come out, we come out. Like we talk, I talk and walk, I walk.

Yasmeen:

That's right. I think there were like three of you from It

Samantha Pugh:

was like three of, yeah, it was like three people. I was like, yeah.

Yasmeen:

Yes. And. When you say, bring it, I mean, you, they really brought it. to me, that was really the highlight, and the flavor of the conference was having those speakers, from OSG. So, yeah. So why don't you just tell us a little bit about OSG, and wait, so I also ran into you or I saw you two more times, right? I saw you on the zoom. There's like a weekly zoom call. The

Samantha Pugh:

meetup every Thursday, except for, five weeks over the summer. we get together every Thursday and we talk shop.

Yasmeen:

Right, but then I saw you in person because you also do events. and I saw you, in person at the golf, it was the golf classic, right? Yes,

Samantha Pugh:

the golf tournament, absolutely. OSG has, we just had our second annual, golf tournament where we raised money for scholarships. We were able to raise. Close to 30, 000 in scholarships this time and I'm sending a few people to college, which is exciting, right? because that's where all roads lead to be able to impact change for our people. So that's the exciting thing about OSG, so yeah, we have these different events. and it's, we're about to have another one, July 22nd. That is our annual cookout, and that's just really like a family reunion of sorts. But we have the, we have the leadership conference at, at Columbia, we have the Transformational Leadership Conference. We'll have our second annual on next year in March. We had our first one this year in March, which was a total success. so we had leaders from all over the country, come in and we talked to them about transformational leadership in a true OSG way. And if you know anything about OSG, you can imagine what that means. So we work hard and we play hard, so we had speakers from all over the country talking about transformation and leadership, but we also saw the reunion of Freeway and Dame Dash for the first time in 20 years, they performed on stage. They are faithful members of OSG, because hip hop is for a lot of us principals who are out here doing the work, hip hop is the soundtrack of our lives. And often the soundtrack of our leadership. So

Yasmeen:

I love that soundtrack of our lives and soundtrack of our leadership. Okay.

Samantha Pugh:

So we get together and, so we do the thing and I'm super excited and yeah, so OSG, is who I am and that's where I got my name, Principal Power, because my name is Samantha Pugh. I was given the name Principal Power by Simone, The Lioness, who bestows everyone with a name. And I think mine is probably one of the few names that really stuck. So there's people out there that actually just call me Principal Power.

Yasmeen:

Right.

Samantha Pugh:

Excited about it.

Yasmeen:

Because why not?

Samantha Pugh:

Why not? Principal

Yasmeen:

Power, why not? It's the best

Samantha Pugh:

word. I was like, ah, how come I never thought of it? And it's like how Beyonce has Sasha Fierce, that's her, when she wants to go on stage and alter

Yasmeen:

ego, right?

Samantha Pugh:

I wouldn't say it's totally my alter ego, but it's definitely extension of me. So I'd go with some full principal power mode.

Yasmeen:

okay, great. I was gonna, that was the next thing I was gonna have you tell the audience. Cause I announced you as Principal Power Pugh, so I'm glad that you told us about that. Now, I just want to take it back just a little bit. So OSG, Off School Grounds, like who. in terms of the members and for our listeners, if they want to tap into the group, just tell us a little bit more about, that, that dynamic in terms of who is there.

Samantha Pugh:

Yeah. like I said, we meet every Thursday. It started during the pandemic, founded by Dr. Dennis

Yasmeen:

McKeezy,

Samantha Pugh:

who was my mentor and coach. And what he did was during the pandemic when we all had to. work virtually, he realized how much it was impacting, the leadership and particularly the leadership of a lot of black and brown principals that he was in service to. Yes. He got together with Laze Elliott, and if you guys know Uncle Laze, he is definitely tied to M.O.P. Shout out to M.O.P. and he's a hip hop pioneer, behind the scenes, but very integral in the history of hip hop in the city. We got together with Dennis and they decided to do this thing called Off School Grounds and it was coming off school grounds to really talk about having real talk about issues that was happening so that we could be a support to each other. So that started with 22 principals. I think I'm like the 23rd or 24th. I'm not a part of the original, but I am a part of the original. Uh, started with, 22 principles and now it's grown to, I think we probably average about 75 people on the meetup every week, and I'm sure we have over 150 principals, school leaders, superintendents. We actually have the former Chancellor, Meisha Porter, is a part of OSG. The mayor is a part of OSG, the chancellor, so we have people from all over. We have Freeway, Dame, uh, Loon. So we have a mixture of educators, influencers, hip hop artists, entrepreneurs, edupreneurs and people who just really are about making a change and making an impact in education.

Yasmeen:

yeah,

Samantha Pugh:

so we get together weekly, to talk about issues that are going on so that we can help be each other, what I call be each other's crutches.

Yasmeen:

And this is Thursdays at 4 PM, right?

Samantha Pugh:

Thursdays at 4 PM. If you want to come in at 3 30, Uncle Laze is on the ones, the twos. From 3. 30 to 4, rocking the house, and then we jump right into it. There's once a month, every fourth, every fourth Thursday is power hour. I take over, I went on a little hiatus this year, cause I had so much stuff to do, but it's coming back. And OSG is just amazing. It's changed my life in so many ways professionally, and personally. I now have a network of family members that I could just go to, and they also have me that comes out and supports them.

Yasmeen:

Okay, so

Samantha Pugh:

we do.

Yasmeen:

Okay, great. So we'll definitely have this information in the show notes as well because part of this as professional development, this podcast, is definitely for that. And part of this is to encourage teachers who might be out there thinking about roles in leadership and just wanting to get a feel for what it's like and just, you know, so I think that this might be, a great way for them to dip their toes in the water

Samantha Pugh:

for that. Yes, absolutely. That's a great dip, and you know what we call it, and it's funny cause we laugh, we call it a Thursday sermon. So it's like church every week. So it's like, you need that church to get through the rest of the week. So like you need that word and the word comes in so many different ways. So if you're looking for a tribe, if you're looking for people that authentically show up as themselves, who are super smart, super dedicated, super connected. Then OSG is definitely for you. So tune in on Thursdays. If you follow us at the official OSG on Instagram, or you could visit the OSG.org page, you can find out more information and tomorrow we have a meetup, so come through.

Yasmeen:

Yes. Okay, so I'm gonna take it now back to you, right? And what inspired you to actually become an educator?

Samantha Pugh:

I love that question, right? Because it's like my favorite question to answer because it is so meaningful to me, and it was a story that I told before, but now that I'm like, come full circle in my career, it holds a lot of meaning. I originally, I'm first, let me start off by saying, I've always been an educator. I've always loved children. I've always been a children's whisperer. I always played school, love learning, love reading, doing all of that stuff. But I was a kid that was like, yeah, I'm smart to make money. Like I'm going to be smart and cool to make money, not to make a difference. So yeah, maybe I'll donate money to schools and I'll volunteer once I get rich. That's what I'm going to do. So in my mind, that's what I had. I'm the first of 54 grandchildren to go to college. Blazing the trail. But that was really inspired me. I had a tough time in high school. I grew up in the nineties, where the crack era, which we were like knee deep in a crack era and it ravaged my neighborhood and my family. So I was trying to cope and figure out how I was going to get to this specialized high school that had very high expectations for me academically while my house, my home was falling apart. And so it was my neighborhood. And so it was my family. So trying to stay focused and get the education. And also there was no blueprint because no one went to school before me, so it was like, I

Yasmeen:

had

Samantha Pugh:

to figure all of that out. So I met a school counselor who instantly saw something in me. And she'll tell you to this day, 35 years later, that she doesn't know what it was, but something, was in, in me, and she just took me under her wing. She said what do you want to do? I was like, what you mean what I want to do? It really guided me and really poured into me and really tapped into that mental health side that no one had ever, she was the very first person to ask me, how are you doing, and are you okay? And I was shocked to get that question, but I cried because. No one ever asked me that. I was just a kid that was expected to keep going, keep doing, in spite of. And then I met, Ealatey, an English teacher, who we started reading the book, The Scarlet Letter, and it brought me back to a love of learning.

Yasmeen:

Brought

Samantha Pugh:

me out of, out of a depression, so the two of them working in tandem to get me academically excited, and also dealing with mental health and depression during that time totally changed the trajectory of my life. So I went to school to become a lawyer. So I was like, great. I made it. Yeah, y'all teachers did some great stuff. It changed my life.

Yasmeen:

as you said, smart to make money, right?

Samantha Pugh:

And then I had a specific, like I was going to be,'cause I just learned about Jay-Z and I was like, he's gonna be major. I don't know about what y'all talking about, so I gotta hurry up and get out of school and go to law school so I could be his lawyer. I anticipated that back in 1993, like how big he was gonna be. So I went to school to become a lawyer. In my African American history class, we read the book Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison, and if anybody knows the book, it's like probably one of the most powerful books ever written and we read that book and I was just so moved by this idea of invisibility or this dichotomy between invisibility and visibility. What makes people feel visible? So our final paper was to write about a time that we felt invisible

Yasmeen:

and

Samantha Pugh:

align it to the progression of the story of the main character, an Invisible Man. So I wrote about the time when I was in high school and how I sat in the back of my math class for five months and my teacher never came to the back of the class, didn't even know who I was. And then I talked about my high school experience and how you can move from invisibility to visibility if people pour the right things into you. I got a phone call, so I turned in my paper, I turned it in on time, which was a feat for me back then, had a dope professor named Mr. Martin, he called me at home at 8 o'clock, and my house was called"Cheers," because every Friday at 5 o'clock, it was party time. And I was like I was the party lady. So cheers is going and my phone rings and I'm like, hello? He's like, this is Professor Martin. I was like,"Oh my God. Okay. I'm in trouble. Something happened." He was like, you have a minute? And I was like, yeah, he was like, your story was so powerful. Is it true? Are the experiences in the story true? I said, absolutely. And he said, I've been teaching for many years. I've never given anyone an A plus, but if this story is true and what you say in it is and your connection between those characters, I'm so moved about who you are and what you bring to the table, so I'm going to give you an A plus on this paper. And I was like, what? He's like, yes, I'm going to give you an A plus on this paper, but right. And I knew it was a, but I was waiting for the other shoe to drop. Cause don't give me like, I'm from the hood. Don't nobody give you nothing for free. Right? Like, so I was like, here it goes. So he said, tomorrow you have to go change your major. I said,"What do you mean?" He's like, you have to become a teacher. And I said, absolutely not. He was like, no, it is time for you to pay it forward. What those people did for your life and did, you have to pay it forward. Promise me you will become a teacher. So I went the next day and changed my major to education. Did you? Yes, it was education. I believed in everything that he said because he saw me, right? So it's again, this dichotomy of this.

Yasmeen:

No

Samantha Pugh:

one had ever, I just told my story. I didn't do anything fancy. I wasn't, I was so moved by the writing and how much it told my story that I was just being authentically me and he saw me, right? So if somebody could see me through all the muck and all the papers in the 15 years and say, there's something special about her and I'm going to see her I'm going to, not only did he see me, but he acknowledged me, and that meant so much to me. So I went, I believed it. I drank the Kool Aid. I went and I changed my major and I haven't turned back since. So that's how I became an educator because somebody believed in me, and somebody saw me and I know how important it is for little brown girls like me to be seen. So I want to curate, I wanted to curate the conditions where we could give, we could illuminate the voices of the voiceless. So, now we're 25 years later.

Yasmeen:

Now I'm gonna quote something, back to you from one of the blog posts that I saw, that you wrote called Got Magic, okay? And the story that you were just telling, aligns with, this quote, that I found in this blog post of yours, where you say,"My one goal in life and career is to make sure that every child feels, sees, and owns that magic, their magic, their superpower. I have seen lives transform and be saved when children discover this magic, capture it, and spread it." So someone saw your magic, right? And this is what completely changed the trajectory of your life, right? And at this point, yeah, the audience has already heard about the incredible leaps, bounds and all the accolades and wonderful things that you have done, right? But I'm wondering what you consider to be your superpower, like your magic. And, when, I mean, I know that you said that this person saw you, right? This, it was a professor, yes? This professor saw you, right? But, beyond that when did you really discover your superpower for yourself and, and how did that really I guess I want to say change you, in ways to bring you forward to the position that you're in now?

Samantha Pugh:

So I think I have always felt magical, but didn't know my magic, right? Like I knew that was something special about me. I just didn't know what it was. It's interesting that you dag, no one's ever, this is such a great question. No one's ever asked me this question, right, and I've been on like about 17 podcasts. No one has ever asked me this question. I think I really didn't discover my purpose until the pandemic. I got into a major car accident. And, literally spun, my car spun around on a highway, crashed into the divider and got hit by a truck. And I woke up, I didn't never lose consciousness. I, I remember looking up and seeing the truck driver. That's how close, that's how his car was in mine. I could see his face and him mouthing, are you okay?

Yasmeen:

Wow. And I'm

Samantha Pugh:

like, Oh, I'm dead. It's no way that I'm right. I'm dead. There's no way. and I walked away from that accident fully. No scar, no scratches, no scars, no nothing. I fully walked out of the car after

Yasmeen:

Incredible,

Samantha Pugh:

So after that experience, so many people, my staff, a lot of people heard about the accident and people were upset because there had been rumors that I wasn't going to make it. It had been rumors because a teacher of mine actually was driving down the street, and this is how I know it was all divine, was driving down the street and saw the accident and knew that, figured that it was me, and turned around

Yasmeen:

on the

Samantha Pugh:

highway, her and her husband, and ran across four lanes of highway to get to me because they recognized my car, right? Like, how crazy is that? They recognized my car. How crazy was it that they were just driving down that street? And she thought I would, by the looks of my car and the looks of me, she thought I was dead, cause they knew that there was no way that I would be able to walk and finally her husband came and said, are you okay? And I said, am I alive? And he was like, what do you mean? Are you alive? I was like, is this a dream? And he was like, He was like, but we got to get you out this car because it's going to blow up. Finally the fire department, so I say all of that to say, and like my staff took care of me for two months. I didn't, they bought me food and everything. Like my whole, my school took care of me and it was so moving to me, and I remember one of my teachers saying, what do you mean? You do this for us. So of course we'll do it for you. So I said, bingo, that's it. And I prayed and I said, God, just have me think of my purpose. So my purpose is to love on people, bring them together, love on them, teach them and empower them to go out and do and return the same thing.. I discovered that magic. And once I tapped into that magic, I was like, I can't be held in a school, right? Because what I, my purpose is too big. I got to get out there and impact even more. I've done my due diligence, but now I got to go see people. I got to let people know that they've been seen, even if we ain't got to say it. And how, how they get to be seen is me just walking in the room and acknowledging that, yeah, your job is hard. This is the hardest thing you ever going to do, but you ain't got to do it alone. And that's how I became a school improvement coach. And

Yasmeen:

that's how Courageous Solutions was born. Yes, that's

Samantha Pugh:

how it was born. That's absolutely how it was born. And I think about a lot. I had my best friend had gotten her doctorate. And a lot of her research was around leaders of color, particularly women in New York City and how this idea of a double tax. Well, and for many of us, a triple tax, on, because most of us go into schools that are struggling, but we get held to the same accountability and the same standards as principals that do not. There's an expectation almost that Black women go in and just take, take, take, take, take, turn around, turn around, turn around, turn around, turn around, change the school culture, change the school culture. You don't need support. You just got that Black girl magic. So also what you'll find in my that blog is that I tell you that it's actually not just, it's not magic. It's something inside of us. But people like to write it off as just magic. Nah, we got it inside of us. It's just up to us to either activate it or people who are equally yoked to activate it for us. So yeah, so that's how Courageous Solutions got started. I wanted to be the person that I needed as a principal, and I wanted to make sure that we stayed in the job in spite of having to work, right? But also acknowledging, yes, there's a different tax on us. That doesn't mean that's going to change, but we could change the system by uniting and coming together, loving on each other, sharing resources, and then going out into the world and doing the same thing.

Yasmeen:

Now, in the consultancy's name, you have"rage" in parentheses. Okay, so can you explain, before you go into like just a few of the specifics of, what you do or what your team does, can you explain a bit about the choice to put the rage in parentheses?

Samantha Pugh:

Absolutely. So there is a very famous educational leadership book that everybody, it's a great book and it's called Courageous Leadership and I love the book. It gives you very practical things to do as a leader, because the idea is that to turn around schools and work in a, the conditions that many of us work in, you have to have a le level of courage to get out there to do it. And I read that book and I thought it was great, but then I realized. Not for us. We got to do that, and I wanted to acknowledge that there is a lot of rage and, and that we are persevering and running schools and changing lives and impacting lives out of rage and not out of love, not often out of times of, it's out of rage because we get so, so bothered by how the system, whether it's the judicial system, whether it is the police force, whether it is, like the systems that continuously marginalized black and brown people exist, and we see the detriment to the detriment of many people in the communities. So a lot of us are walking around here with rage. And then I started to notice, once I became a part of OSG, I really started to notice, a lot of people that I was gravitating to, that were principals that I admired and loved, always told the story about why they became a principal. And it never was because my mom's a principal or my moms, you know, is a teacher, like I just decided it's always this trauma, right? Like it's always this trauma. It's always cause like me, right? Like my teacher didn't come and see me in the back of the classroom, or, I was an athlete and I saw how they did kids that were student athletes. All the stories of the people that I know, that I love, that look like me, that service kids that look like me had a story. And it never was. It was all, we became leaders out of trauma. And we stay leaders out of trauma. So it has become a trauma response as opposed to effective leadership. So I wanted to tease that out to say, yes, a lot of us are traumatized, either by a school system, a school, a teacher, some of that, or some of all of it, right? But we could still turn that trauma into something beautiful. We could turn that trauma, as my sister says all the time, my sister, Dr. Atchison says, turn that trauma into triumph. So using those things that made us angry, that brought us rage to keep us in the seat and to have a deeper impact on our kids. So that's hence the name Courageous Leadership.

Yasmeen:

Okay, and so that really brings me, there's something else that you said, I think that it was in this, same post, where you said,"Like Kryptonite, for the character Superman, schools drained my energy, drowned my voice and my cries, smoldered my inner fire and almost killed me." Now, very powerful writing by the way. Just really moving. Pretty much a lot of the things that I read that you wrote, I was like getting more excited to have you on the podcast today. So much. Thank you. Thank you. I wanna ask you now, so in your current role. What do you say to the administrators, the school officials, whomever it is that you're addressing to empower them to do the exact opposite of this, right? To instead lift the voices of every student to heed and understand their cries and to actually breathe life into their fire.

Samantha Pugh:

So remember I told you my, what my teacher did, he asked, she asked me how I'm doing.

Yasmeen:

Yeah.

Samantha Pugh:

That's what I, the very first question I ask when I walk into a school, or I encounter a principal or a AP or a, in some cases a superintendent, as they rattle off everything, I sit there calmly. And I look them in their eye. And I say, how you doing? And I would tell you that 60% of the time people cry. 60% of the time people cry. And I give them permission, right? Like just asking them that question gives them permission to feel, and acknowledge how they're feeling because you can't do anything about it until you acknowledge it, right? But you, but it's got to be carefully curated. So I just ask how you're doing. And either people get really emotional or they try to ignore the question and rattle off. But I always come back to the same thing. How you doing? And then I ask them, how you doing this? And by the answers of those two questions, I could figure out what I need to do. So if a person cries and they're like, I don't know, I'm not doing this. And I say, okay, so then let's figure out all the stuff that you're doing. And let's pick three things that's going to be the highest leverage moves that's going to get you to the deepest impact in the fastest time because you're trying to do all the things and you can't do all the things. Then I tell them after they and then many of them rattle off that the district isn't giving them this or the schools aren't giving them this or the system isn't giving them this and then I say, okay. What you gonna do? what you gonna do? We can't wait for Superman, it's never coming. It's never coming.

Yasmeen:

It's

Samantha Pugh:

never coming. Superman is never coming. So, are we waiting for the system to change? Or we are figuring out how to work within the system so that we can dismantle it. That's always the questions that I ask and that gets people activated. Just really having the biggest pieces are really giving people space to, to explain their rage, and then I always go into it. So if they say to me, the district cut my budget by, 500, 000 dollars, I'll be like, that sucks, right? That shouldn't happen. They foul for that. Okay. So what are we going to do?

Yasmeen:

But

Samantha Pugh:

It's just because how often do people just acknowledge how you feel or authentically or somebody that you know that's going through it really acknowledges how you feel. But I also hold their feet to the fire by saying it ain't going to change. So what you going to do about it. So let's pick a couple of things and let's run those plays and let's get really good at those things. And then we go to the next thing. And then we go to the next thing, right? But when you come into schools that are drowning, which a lot of us are, you feel like you have to do all the things. So that's how I, that's how I coach. I am a big believer, head, hand, and heart. I graduated from Hampton University. Booker T. Washington is our most illustrious, alumni. He talks about that. So it's the idea of getting to the heart first, right? So like I asked them those heart questions, like, why do you do this? Like, why are you here? Why are you doing this? What's your mission and what's your vision? Why did you pick this? And then the hand is, okay, so let's get down and dirty. Let's walk some classrooms. Let's walk to school. Let's look at what you have, right? Even if it's a little of nothing or all of it is bad, let's look at what you have and then leverage that. And then the head is, I give them professional development in whatever the area is, or I direct them to somebody that has professional, that has great professional development. So that's what Courageous Leadership is about training and supporting the head, hand, and heart.

Yasmeen:

Now, it's really just such a simple thing, right? To ask how someone is doing, yet it just escapes so many people, right? We ask

Samantha Pugh:

it in a very matter of fact, right? Now, know that you can't really see me, but I was gonna say, no, if you couldn't notice how I ask, how you doing, right? It's very, I don't know, how you doing? Or, hey girl, how you doing? I might, but that's not, I sit down, I let them go. And then I go, I lean back, I put my shoulders down and I look them directly in the eye. How you doing? Because I want them to see that I see them. So we, how you doing is something we do every day. That's a lot of work. That's

Yasmeen:

right.

Samantha Pugh:

But it's all about the how you do that and the when. So I'm very strategic about and purposeful about when I ask the question and how.

Yasmeen:

That's interesting because, as, an educator of, people who are, learning English as a new language. One of the first things that they learn is this idea about how are you, right? That's like a question that you ask, but then I noticed that quickly a lot of students they realize that when they ask that question, it's not supposed to be taken authentically, like for someone to really answer it, right? Yeah, you don't

Samantha Pugh:

really want

Yasmeen:

to know how

Samantha Pugh:

somebody's doing. It's it's just that thing we do.

Yasmeen:

They seem like really surprised by that though, initially, right? They're always like, Extremely surprised.

Samantha Pugh:

It's it's so funny. They are all, and these are people that have doctorates. These are people like, they are extremely surprised when I asked them that, but they're relieved. Surprised but relieved because how often does somebody come and ask the school leader how they're doing?

Yasmeen:

The school didn't really mean it and really want to hear the answer.

Samantha Pugh:

The school leader asks everybody how they're doing, right? But no one, very few, very, and I, one of my teachers used to do that all the time. How you doing? And what that meant for me. Because I felt like I was alone and I was in a job that no one cared about how I was feeling. So when somebody see, again, so it's this whole thing about visibility and seeing, that changes the game. So think about how we authentically ask our children how they're doing, right? Like, how you doing? And not, and we're intentional and purposeful about that and then having some solutions after we figure that out. It's powerful. It's like one of the most powerful things that I do. it's powerful for me because the other purpose is that one of the things I strongly believe is I sow out into this world so much because I get so much in return. So every time I give, I get back. It's always a reciprocal, and it's not transactional, it's a reciprocal process. It's a, I get, it's this transformational process that when I see you better, I'm better, right? Like, when I see you better, I'm better. My, my happiest, one of my happiest moments of this year was watching one of my mentees go from assistant principal to principal, because I understand the journey. And her saying, I don't know how I would have done this without you. And I'm like, I don't know how I would have done this without you, so it's just, I am so rich because I get to do the work that I do every day and I've never been happier.

Yasmeen:

Now, you know, the work that you do is obviously geared towards change, towards solutions, right? And, I was listening to you on. what is this podcast? You were on this podcast called Dope People. Oh yeah.

Samantha Pugh:

People podcast. Yes. And I was like,

Yasmeen:

too, this is fantastic. Like just even the name of it, Dope People who wouldn't wanna be on that podcast. So I know it's I

Samantha Pugh:

like in and of itself. You're like, yep, that's me. I need to be on that.

Yasmeen:

Now, so on that podcast, you mentioned, of course, you've been an educator for over 20 years, right? So you said that in that time, you haven't seen much change. That you've seen many changes, but not much change. So I would like you to unpack that for our audience a bit and see is there like a bright light at the end of that tunnel in terms of actually seeing change as opposed to changes?

Samantha Pugh:

So I think one is, I don't know that there's a bright light at the end of the tunnel, but I know that there's bright spots everywhere. So I used to say as a principal, we're going to go look for bright spots and I used to be like, in the midst of the mess, places where great things are happening, like we're going to live. So, I think, I don't know that in my lifetime that I would see, a light at the end of the tunnel, but I know that there are bright spots out there, right? There are schools, there are principals, there are kids of color that are doing the damn thing. but in order for us to go deeper and capture, all of our kids, there has to be a total overhaul of the system because this system was never designed, forget about like for black and brown kids, right? It never was designed for women. It wasn't designed for people who were not, in the aristocracy, right? Like we think about how schools were developed for upper middle class white men and rich white men. So this system is designed around that. And it's a system in this country that really hasn't, one of the few systems in this country that has not evolved, right? So a school that your grandmother went to, looks almost the same as a school today. So the system has not evolved because there is a danger. Because one thing, if you want to change a civilization or community, educate its people. So if we don't educate our people, then we can't shift the world. So why not keep schools bad? Because the danger in all of these people rising up and the danger of all these people getting educated, because like James Baldwin says, when I get more educated, I have to question the society in which I live deeper. And nobody wants us to question anything. so the silencing of, culturally responsive, literature, the silence of culturally responsive practices is intellectually makes sense, and your heart should make sense, and historically make sense, but we're still, there are still people who are making decisions very, and getting away with it, making decisions to erase history. You erase people's history, then there's nothing left. For me, until we get to a point where we can dismantle, right? And when I say dismantle, it's like, nah, that doesn't work. And I see people do it, right? I see people say, the minimum I have to do for special ed in my school is this, but I'm not doing this. I'm using my resources to do double that, right? That's a bright spot. I see people like, yeah, my school don't give me the budget to feed families, but I know that Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs says that if you don't have your fundamental needs, then you can't learn. So guess what? I'm going to figure out how to raise money to get kids breakfast. I'm going to feed them. I'm going to have a pantry. I'm going to educate their families. I'm going to teach their families English. I see bright spots of that happening. But until the system shifts, those things will continue to be bright spots. And the thing is, we are the bright spots. You, me, OSG, we are the bright spots that are out there. Because here I am shouting up in bamboo earrings and sneakers, but I'm telling you all those things, right? So we're giving our kids, and we're giving a new culture, of teachers and educators and allies permission to be themselves, so that they can dismantle, right? If we could peel away having to be somebody else, and making our folks feel like they gotta be somebody else, we could peel back that and they could show up as their authentic selves. We got it. We've gotten 50 percent there. I'm hopeful. I'm extreme. I'm hopeful for the people. I'm not hopeful for the system. So that's why I'll probably be employed for a long time. That's why you'll probably be employed for a long time. There'll be many of us out here that are still doing the work because the system hasn't shifted. So I'm praying for a major shift. But education is one of those things that everybody feels like they have an opinion about because everybody's going to school, some sort of school in this country. Everyone has something to say, and most of the times it's not in the, It's not in reference to the future, it's in reference to the past. So when I went to school, this is what we did. So now that I'm 80 years old and it's 60 years later, I'm making decisions about something that worked for me 60 years ago. Doesn't make sense. Or I'm trying to eradicate people even, I'm not trying to even change history. I don't even want y'all to know about Ruby Bridges. Because it divides us. And I'm like, this country's been divided. We grew up as a divided country, right? So until we start to level the playing fields economically, socially, in this country, education will continue to suffer, and the bright spots will continue to have to find each other so that we can support one another. Because the work is too hard to do without that.

Yasmeen:

Now, given the amount of obstacles that, we're up against in terms of making this major shift in the system for the teachers who are listening to this podcast and who are, they really would like to take part in facilitating this change, what would you say to these teachers who really want to make this leap towards leadership within their schools or within their districts despite all of the obstacles that still exist and despite only having bright spots as opposed to a huge bright light.

Samantha Pugh:

Absolutely. So I'll tell you something my father used to say to me when I was younger, it's very, a little crass. But straight to the point, and what he would always say is that you can't be Black and scared. And I was like, what? I didn't understand the meaning of that, right? But his thing was, you can't be Black and scared. So that means that you gotta live with a level of courage every single day to have the impact that you need to have. You have to be courageous. And if you're going into a leadership position because you want the title, you're going to struggle. Because the title does not bring you satisfaction, the work does. And when the title brings you more satisfaction than the work is, then you become a part of the problem instead of the solution. The type of change and the type of leaders that we need to be is one that's not afraid, like I am not afraid now to lose my job, like I used to be like, I'm gonna put up with this, even though I know it ain't great for kids, because I don't want to lose my job. Like I've got, I've lost three principalships. All three of them was because I stood up and said, nah, we're not doing that. And that's not the type of leader I'm going to be. So y'all want to find somebody, y'all can find somebody else, right? So you have to be not afraid. You also got to know your craft, right? Like I'm not just a talking head because I feel deeply and passionately about the work. I also know instruction like the back of my hand. So know your craft. Respect your craft and then find your crew. Find your crew of people who think like you, who want the same things you want, and stay focused on those people because there's going to be so many of the other people. So get better, and get to know kids and families, right? Stop thinking about this, ideal. You do not have the ideal job in the ideal place and it's never going to be ideal. So you've got to find the joy in it every day. The most joyful teachers I see spend more time in their classrooms than anything else because they love their kids and they love teaching. So if you're making the transition between teacher and leader, I would have urged you to come see me at Teach Jam because that was going to be what my topic was, but we had bad weather so we couldn't do it. But it was my, my session was called So You Want to Be a Leader? And the question I, and the question that I start with is what's your why? Because your why is going to keep you grounded when everything else is in chaos. Your why is going to be pushed. Your why is going to be challenged. And that's going to make the difference between you having a job, a career, and a passion for something that you love. So take time and spend, take time to figure out why it is. And don't let anybody change that. Alright, I'm gonna just recap

Yasmeen:

for the teachers out there that are really considering a role in leadership, you can't be scared. Don't be scared. Know your craft, know your stuff, and find your crew, right? And then finally, of course, involve the community, right? Make sure that you're involving people in this, right? I think you also mentioned either in that podcast or something else that I read of yours about really wanting to involve parents and really keeping parents in mind when you're, making decisions in general, right?

Samantha Pugh:

Absolutely. You can't do the work without the parents and the parents want the best for their kids. Every parent, even if the most dysfunctional family, and I've seen some, right? Like I've seen some over the years, but the one thing that they always say, they say they love their kids. They want the best. They may not know how, what the best looks like. They may not, but they know they want that. And I, I was coaching a teacher last week, and she was like, anticipating this. parent who has been turning up and giving everybody a hard time. And I said to her, I was like, I'm gonna give you what has always worked for me. You sit there and you let them vent and go off. Let them go off. Because that might be the first and last time that somebody let that woman go off. Let them go. don't let them hit you. Don't be disrespectful. But let them go off. And then you say to them, you know what I heard you say? It's something that both of us have in common. We love your kid and we want the best for your kid. So now that we got that, as long as we have that, then we can figure everything else out. And I tell you, I tell, I told them watch how that disarms a family because they will ultimately want to know that you care about their kid. And that you're going to do, you're going to be relentless at making sure that kid is safe and that the kid is learning. They need to know that. And then you could probably pretty much say anything after that, right? Because they come from schools where they didn't feel safe. They come from neighborhoods where they didn't, that they didn't value that school. They did school, there's a study about 80 percent of kids that struggle have parents that were disenfranchised from school. That's a huge number. So if we know that kids that are struggling usually come from parents, more than likely come from parents that struggled with school, then the data tells us that we got to do something with parents too. So they got to feel involved, they got to feel heard, they got to feel supported. And they got to feel like they also have, they have skin in the game, but they also got to be rewarded as well, because it's hard work being a parent. It's hard work, right? And then you also have to build things around parents. So if you're only having your parent teacher conferences in the morning or the evening, that doesn't work, because if you're in a neighborhood where there's working class families, if there's a large language barrier, guess what? I opened a school, I opened a high school in the South Bronx. And most of my parents were, most of my parents were Latino. And so guess what I had to do? I had to go learn Spanish. I had to go learn Spanish. And if I couldn't learn the whole language, I had to learn enough to open up the door of communication with someone. I remember I tell the story about when I opened my school in the Bronx. A parent of one of the kids came to me, spoke no English, none, but saw me and began to cry. And I said, Oh, are you okay? This is before the Spanish class. I was like, Oh my God, what's happening? I was like, get this parent some help. So I brought her in my, like crying. So she held my hand and I held her hand and we walked to my office. And I got, somebody to translate and I said, how can I help you? What's the matter? And she said, my daughter has to go to this school. And I said, okay, yeah, I agree. Yeah. She got to go to school, but why? Because of you. And I said, tears of

Yasmeen:

joy. It was tears of joy. Wasn't it?

Samantha Pugh:

Yes. She said, this is the first time she ever seen anybody of color leading a school and me standing there and said, they had just come to this country. And she was worried about her daughter being safe in school. Me standing there, her seeing my black skin and my black face, said to her that her kid is going to be safe. And that was all she wanted. So I don't take this stuff lightly. like I don't, like we laugh, we joke, but I don't take it lightly. Like I don't take who I am. I take who I am. I take some of the things I do lightly, but I don't take who I stand for and who I represent for people lightly, because that changed what she believed about her coming into this country and education for her kid. and that was just me showing up. yeah. So I always urge people to continuously, to think about how we show up for our families because it will change the game and they need the help too. Stop pushing them out. Have your school open and welcome. Do things intentional to support your families. Get together with community based organizations and support their families because if we educate the kids, support the families, we are, we 50 percent there of dismantling the system.

Yasmeen:

Principal Power. You have

Samantha Pugh:

definitely brought the power to this podcast

Yasmeen:

today.

Samantha Pugh:

No, it was you. These questions were amazing. Like it was you. I was just here. I'm just the talent. You, let me tell you something. These are the best questions I've had in any podcast that I've ever been in. So salute. Oh,

Yasmeen:

that's so sweet. I do.

Samantha Pugh:

I really do. This is great.

Yasmeen:

Look, I have two more of them. Just one. All right. One is where can people find more information about your work? If they want to follow you, if they want to see all these wonderful things that you have talked about coming up, how can they find out where you are and be where you are?

Samantha Pugh:

Absolutely. So every Thursday I'm on the OSG Meetup. Very rarely am I not there. I might be quiet, which is not often cause I run my mouth, but I'm always there. So you can always come on, find your tribe. Cause I found mine. I found my crew. Come on and see if this crew is for you. And you'll see my little box that says Principal Power in this very fly picture that somebody took of me. Hey, drop your information. I'm there every Thursday. I am going to be at the Black Educators Rock Conference from July 13th to July 17th. And I'm doing two sessions. One session is"So you want to be a leader?" And the other one is"Authentic Feedback: Lessons from the Soul." So how do we use sneaker culture, because I am a professional sneaker head. How do we think about sneaker culture and authenticity to have people give each other effective feedback? So that's going to be fun. What's the name of the conference? Black Educators Rock.

Yasmeen:

Okay. Yeah,

Samantha Pugh:

Black Educators Rock. So I'll be in there and then I'm also sponsoring their sneaker ball, which we're raising money for kids. I am also, you can find me on Principal Power Pugh on Instagram and you can follow me. I'm a blast. I've been corny this week, so don't use this week as a gauge but, a lot of stuff. And you could go on www.samanthapugh.org for now,'cause it, the website is about to be revamped. But that's where you could find me any of those places. Or you could email me at courageous solutions ed@gmail.com. drop me a line. I always tell people, 30 minutes to talk with me, 30, 40 minutes to talk with me is free. So come through, and let's talk. I love to talk. I love to support. And if I can't service you, I'd love to connect you with somebody who can, cause I am a connector.

Yasmeen:

Now, the final question is what burning question should today's educators consider in order to improve their service to the K 12 community?

Samantha Pugh:

What's that? What type of questions should an educator ask or be thinking about? As they move through K through 12 education. Yeah, that's the question.

Yasmeen:

And,

Samantha Pugh:

Think a little more about that. I'm like, wait a minute.

Yasmeen:

I want to make sure I got it. no, what burning questions should, yes, should educators think about in order to improve their service to the K 12 community? What should be a burning question on their minds as they go on this path to better service their students?

Samantha Pugh:

Who am I and why am I doing this? Who am I and why am I doing this? Those are questions that you should ask, right? Because, we had, I did coffee with a principal every week during the pandemic because who I am is a person whose parent was not welcomed in school. It's important to me to make sure that parents are welcomed, that parents feel like they have a voice. So I create structures so that they do that, right? So that's who I am. I am a first generation college graduate. There are certain things that I put in place to make sure and part of the reason why I am is because someone cared about me emotionally and socially and academically at the same time. I created structures in my school building where you have, where kids. Get those feelings, right? So everything ties back to who you are and your why. So if you don't know what those things are, you're going to struggle. So spend time being reflective. And then the other thing is, what am I willing to give up to make sure that every single kid gets an opportunity. What am I willing to give up? What am I willing to get? And what am I willing to give up? Because you're going to have to give up something. So what are you willing to do? What are you willing to do? Because people say, I know my kids, I love my kids, I love education, I'm relentless. So what you willing to do? Because I'm willing to die. I am willing to, if someone comes in here with a, if somebody comes in here with a semi automatic weapon in this school, I'm ready to die for the children here. If somebody says to me that schools, we're about to cut a million, a billion dollars worth of funding, I'm willing to die for that. So that's how I operate. That's how I operate. I'm very clear about who I am and my why. I know what I'm willing to die for. I'm willing to, I know what I'm not willing to. So that's how I walk this earth and run this world. And that's how I've been successful because I've been unapologetically, authentically connected to my why.

Yasmeen:

Okay, so on that note, I'm gonna end this episode by quoting you once again, because it was just so beautiful. You said, take time to see the magic. It's really easy to see it if you let yourself see it, so thank you so much for being on this, on this podcast today. And we look forward to all your exciting events coming up and to following you.

Samantha Pugh:

Yes, please do. Please do. And we should get back together again. We got some work we could do. All right. Can't help but be the connector. I'm the plug. I'm always like, we got some stuff we could do. Oh, also follow, Smart Chicks with Kix. Also on Instagram, that's my other company. A group of principals and I started an organization that we're going to go around to schools and support kids and teachers and principals on how to show up authentically themselves. Okay,

Yasmeen:

nice. All right, Principal Power, everybody. Thank you for tuning in to RBERNing Questions, produced by Mid-State RBERN at OCM BOCES. If you would like to learn more about today's guest or any of the resources we discussed, please visit MidStateRBERN's webpage at OCMBOCES. org. That's O C M BOCES. ORG. Join us next time where we hope to answer more of your burning questions.