17 18 19 Redshirting Education
Based on the forthcoming book "17 18 19: Redshirting Education" by John Chavez
Bio of John Chavez
Retired 20+ year High Educator, 27 years as a Football & Baseball Coach, Currently TV High School Football Commentator. Father of three adult sons, older two have graduated from college, youngest a sophomore in college.
Podcast voices created by NotebookLM
17 18 19 Redshirting Education
Episode 2: Exploring Educational Delays and Their Impact
What if starting first grade a year later could change the trajectory of a child's entire educational journey? Join us as we explore this bold idea with John Chavez, author of "17, 18, 19, Redshirting Education." Discover how delaying school entry might enhance social development, maturity, and even high school graduation rates. We dig into the crucial role of mastering multiplication by third grade and its surprising link to long-term academic success. This episode offers a fresh perspective on the often overlooked benefits of taking the road less traveled in education.
Our discussion also touches on the stormy seas of middle school, where social upheavals and puberty challenge students' confidence and risk-taking. Chavez shares strategies from resources like the What Works Clearinghouse that can help close educational gaps when they arise. We also ponder the broader implications of teenagers obtaining their driver's licenses—it's about more than just getting behind the wheel. Embrace a new way of thinking about education as we advocate for personalized learning paths and community support tailored to each child's unique needs.
Okay, so are you ready to dive into something interesting? Today we're tackling redshirting in education.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:But we're not just talking about the whole kindergarten thing. All right, We've got John Chavez's book. 17, 18, 19, Redshirting Education.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And he kind of throws a curveball. Yeah, he's all about delaying first grade.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good way to put it. It's interesting. What do you think about that? Yeah, it's fascinating. You see, chavez. He argues that repeating kindergarten, but at a new school, can actually make for a much smoother social transition. Kids get that extra year, but they're not, like you know, labeled as being held back with their like same classmates.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really interesting distinction I hadn't really considered before. Yeah, he actually aimed for his sons to graduate high school at 19. Right Like, can you imagine? Your kid is 19, they're navigating college applications or maybe even job interviews.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:How do you think that extra year, just like even maturity, wise and life experience, how do you think that might give them an edge compared to their peers?
Speaker 2:It's not even just about, like, being a year older, which in and of itself is, you know, something to consider, but it's about their decision making, their confidence, even their resilience when, like, things get tough. And Chavez really highlights those extra years, how impactful they can be, especially when teens are going through these big milestones going to college, entering the workforce.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, it makes you wonder if sometimes we underestimate the impact of those developmental differences.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And he's not just fixated on senior year. Chavez pinpoints third grade as like this pivotal year.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Particularly when it comes to mastering multiplication.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Particularly when it comes to mastering multiplication. He found this connection between, like really nailing those multiplication tables in third grade and higher high school graduation rates. Wow, it seems. You know, at first you think really that's so specific.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but there is research to back this up. So, like a child who struggles with multiplication in early elementary, they might actually be at a higher risk of dropping out of high school later on of multiplication in early elementary they might actually be at a higher risk of dropping out of high school later on.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, it's not about like scaring people, but it's one of those things where you see that connection and it does raise a flag. It's like, okay, early math proficiency, that's really important. It lays the groundwork for future academic success. You know the National Mathematics Advisory Panel. They've done a lot of work on this and it's really critical those early building blocks.
Speaker 1:So it's not even just about memorizing times tables. It's about building that solid base for all the complex math that's coming later.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and you know there's research from Duncan and others that show that when kids struggle early on with math it can kind of snowball.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can see that.
Speaker 2:You know they get discouraged, they check out and that impacts their whole academic trajectory.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And this idea of cumulative disadvantage and the Annenberg Institute for School Reform has highlighted this like when those early challenges aren't addressed, they kind of have this ripple effect.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it just like impacts them academically, even socially and emotionally impacts them academically, even socially and emotionally.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's a powerful way to put it the ripple effect. So what can parents do? Say their child is past third grade and struggling.
Speaker 2:Is it too late? No, not at all. There's good news here the what Works Clearinghouse. They have a ton of research showing that targeted interventions, even later on, they can help. It's about finding those gaps and getting the right support.
Speaker 1:Okay, that is really good to hear for parents.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it kind of speaks to that, like you know, early intervention thing.
Speaker 2:Right right.
Speaker 1:Catching it before those, like ripples, become, like you know, tidal waves.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:But Chavez doesn't stop at academics.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:He goes into this whole other world. That I feel like a lot of people don't really talk about middle school. Oh yeah, and how puberty just like throws everything up in the air.
Speaker 2:It's amazing. It's like those few years. It's credible, like they're not just, you know suddenly taller. It's like their sense of who they are is changing where they fit in socially. It's all happening at once.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:While their bodies are like changing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like their brains are trying to do algebra and figure out like their first crush, all at the same time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And like, with all that change those early gaps academically, like we talked about with multiplication, like those can become even more obvious in middle school right.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, because middle school is where you know academics get more intense. Yeah, the subjects are more complex. Right, there are higher expectations, and so those little gaps they had, say in math, suddenly impact their confidence, makes them less likely to take risks, which is so important at that age.
Speaker 1:Totally so. It's like we were talking about building a tower. Now it's like you're adding on those middle floors and if that base isn't strong, it's like the whole structure is.
Speaker 2:Exactly Compromised, and what's so interesting is how Chavez ties this to another big milestone for teens. Getting your driver's license.
Speaker 1:Oh, ok, yeah, let's talk about that. Yeah, because, like driving for teenagers, I mean, come on, that's like the ultimate freedom.
Speaker 2:Right, right, but he's saying it's way more than just driving, that's like the ultimate freedom, right, right.
Speaker 1:But he's saying it's way more than just driving. It's so much more than just driving. He argues that the age when a team gets their license, it can really have these huge implications and not just like getting from here to there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But navigating the world and all the real consequences that come with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's less about can you like nail that parallel park? And more about decision making, responsibility, absolutely All those things you know as parents, like we want our kids to have, but it's also terrifying to let them actually practice.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know Right Like. Imagine this your team's driving.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Split? Second decision Do they follow the rules, Even if their friends are like, come on, let's go, let's do this, or you know that urge to text while they're driving. They know it's dangerous, Right, but like these are high stakes decisions they have to make.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it really shows their maturity level. That's a heavy responsibility, Not just for the teenager, but for the parent too.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like we're literally handing over, you know, the keys to a powerful machine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just hoping we've given them what they need to handle it. It's that balance of letting go but also still being there. You know, guiding, setting expectations.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Having those hard conversations about risk peer pressure.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:What are the consequences of their actions, good and bad?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like driving. It's almost like this, like training ground. You don't really expect for those like bigger life skills.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Responsibility Thinking ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Good judgment, all that.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and it really highlights what Chavez is getting at here. We've got to think bigger than just these traditional milestones. Yeah, it's about the whole picture, right? How kids develop.
Speaker 1:It's recognizing that, like kids, they mature differently. What one kid's ready for at 16, another kid might need until they're 17 or 18.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And this whole idea of like tailoring things to the kid to their own timeline, it's interesting timeline it's interesting because education is kind of shifting this way. Anyway, okay, away from that rigid everybody's the same model. Yeah, it's getting more personalized.
Speaker 1:That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it's like meeting kids where they're at developmentally.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:And like giving them the support to succeed, not just in school but, you know, emotionally, socially, the whole thing.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And you know, chavez, he focuses on those very specific things First grade driver's license but it makes you think right yeah, what else plays into a child's readiness?
Speaker 1:Right, what else beyond those, like markers on the calendar, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:What makes a child truly ready for those next steps?
Speaker 2:That's a big question. It is and I think it's one for all of us right. Whether you're a parent, a teacher, anyone who works with young people, it's a conversation to keep having and there's no easy answer. No, but it starts with seeing each child as an individual.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Their strengths, their challenges, their own pace it all matters.
Speaker 1:This has been such an interesting deep dive John Chavez's 17, 18, 19. Redshirting education Everyone should check it out.
Speaker 2:It really makes you think.
Speaker 1:It does. It's a fresh take on those milestones we think we know and just that reminder that sometimes you know maybe a detour from the usual path might be the best thing for a child. Absolutely, Help them thrive, Exactly might be the best thing for a child.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Help them thrive.
Speaker 1:Exactly and for everyone listening, as you're figuring these things out in your own families, your communities. Remember there's no one right answer.
Speaker 2:It's about what works for that child.
Speaker 1:That's what it comes down to. Well, thank you for joining us for this deep dive, and we'll see you next time. Keep those minds curious.