The Lethal Library

10. Early Release to Instant Chaos: Pizzuto's Descent into Murder

• The Lethal Library • Episode 10

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In this wild ride of an episode, Dani and Stephanie dive deep into the dark and twisted life of Gerald Ross Pizzuto, an insidious criminal who went from committing violent crimes to languishing on Idaho's death row. From his disturbing acts of rape and murder to his manipulative courtroom strategies and repeated legal appeals, this episode goes into every shocking detail. Expect dark humor, candid commentary, and a no-holds-barred discussion on the complexities of the justice system. Whether you're here for the true crime or the irreverent banter, this episode has something for you. Spoiler alert: There's a cameo from Creech 😲

Contact The Lethal Library at TheLethalLibrary@gmail.com. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok!

welcome to the Lethal Library. I'm Dani. I'm Stephanie. And, a little less of me is here this week. Yes. There's a missing body part. I've, I had an emergency, appendectomy, you know how I am with big words. I had my appendix removed this last weekend, which was anyway, that's why she's looking so thin and I mean, you can barely see her. What waste? Where? Can you just take some of the fat? Get it out of there. Just trim, just a little trim trim. I'll be happy anyway. But we're, we're welcome. We're happy you're here. Um, and we're going to tell you another story tonight. We do have a special honorable mention though, our good friend Risa recently gave us some feedback Turns out the language here is off the charts terrible and that's a direct quote. So Apologies to Risa, thoughts and prayers I don't know if that's gonna change but fair warning We did warn in the first episode, but maybe we'll warn every every time but thank you for the constructive criticism Risa, love you forever. That's how long this fucking guy has been on death row in Idaho. Okay. That I'm gonna tell you about today. Damn. Is he a bad person? Yep. Check. Okay. Gerald Ross Pizzuto has been in prison. Almost exclusively since he was 19. Wowie wow. Yeah. Killing it. Early adopter But with six months of freedom in his late 20s, he brutally killed four people. And also this This episode we have an honorable mention here for the shit show, The State of Idaho. Uh, so, you'll, you'll be, Hearing the reference to that a little later in the story. So here we go. Let's do it. We're gonna start out in May of 1975 I'm gonna give you a little prehistory on this guy Pizzuto before he Not a lot of prehistory to go over. I'm expecting this to be pretty brief, like he's not an early start, but he was born, he went to school, and then he was in jail. And then he went to prison. May of 1975, Gerald Ross Pizzuto, at age 19, is arrested following the rape of a 23 year old woman in Michigan. Just, This is horrific. I mean, rape is horrible, but the victim was taken by gunpoint out of her husband's car. Very brazen and ballsy. What the hell? He's not all there. Pizzuto tied her hands behind her back with a belt and then assaulted her. Can you imagine? This is terrible. That is While in custody facing those those charges, Pizzuto's wife filed for divorce. And it was finalized in September. Yeah, no kidding. I had a smiley face in my notes. Because good on her. She's like, oh, she said yeah, you're a d bag. You're a d bag. But also then later in my research, I found out that he had previously beat his wife when she was pregnant and the beating led to a premature delivery of the child and it died. Okay, so she was ready to go and this probably gave her the best opportunity. Maybe she was already, maybe she was already separated from him over this. I mean, a young girl, I mean, I can't, she was probably 17, 20 somewhere, you know, in that age range and her family's like, uh uh, uh uh. So she could have been already, I don't have that exact timeline of like when they were, if they were together or not, when this, when he did this crime, but, What a disturbed individual. I bet you she got everything that those 19 year old kids had. Because, oh, your honor, he's in jail for forcibly assaulting a woman. I just can't even. But on those charges, Pizzuto was found guilty in October and sentenced to 20 to 40 years in prison. Because it was a horrific crime. Yeah. But we know how this goes. He'll only end up spending nine years in prison before being released. And what is that for? Good behavior, like, because it's supposed to be 20 to 40. How do you get nine? The more and more research I do, the judicial system is, makes no sense to me. on how people get, get released early or don't get enough time or get too much time. Like there's probably Wrongful convictions. There's everything. There's probably some dude that sold pot to his buddy in 1994 still rotting away in prison somewhere. It just makes no sense. But, you know, you forcibly assault a woman in front of her husband by gunpoint and Nine years. You get half of the low end of the range of years. Yeah, you're out. Bullshit. When he was released he left Michigan and his probation behind and ended up in Orland, California Which is in like Northern California is kind of by Chico is what I had read and he was there for Just a few months. I can't imagine he was allowed to do this on his probation. Oh, no, he left his probation behind He's like bye Don't care, but you know how probation was Back in the day, so he was in Orland, California and three months later. He was ended up in Seattle, Washington You We're going to move up to 1985. Berta Herndon and her nephew, Del Herndon, left the valley on July 24th, 1985 to go check on their gold claims in the area of Ruby Meadows, about 26 miles from McCall, Idaho. So this is kind of up by Bergdorf. Okay. The pair had planned on staking some new claims and panning for gold. They had owned that claim for about two years. Berta's husband, Delbert Hernon, expected the pair to be gone for about a month. So, and this is where they're reopening that, is it Stigmite Mine up there? They're just getting ready to reopen. Is it by Yellow Pine? Yeah. They're trying to do a big mine project. Yeah. Probably. It's up in that area, I believe. So, um, anyways, they're, they're like, let's go get some gold.

Dani

On Tuesday, July 30th, the Valley County Sheriff received a phone call from a Northern California police officer. He told the sheriff about a visit he had with James Michael Rice. Rice told him about a double murder that had taken place in Idaho. Yikes. Imagine getting that phone call. Excuse me, what? There was a murder in your area. Did you even know? Did you even know this was going on? Yes. The bodies of Berta and Del were found in shallow graves on July 30th, 1985. Their graves were about 500 feet apart on each side of a dirt road. Both showed blows to the head with a blunt instrument, but Delbert had also been shot in the head.

Stephanie

Overkill.

Dani

Idaho County deputies said the Herndon's had been killed the Friday or Saturday before. On August 1st, 1985, two suspects are arrested in Valley County. William Odom Jr., 26, and his wife, Lenny, 19, were located at 2. 30 a. m. in a trailer in Donley, Idaho. The three murder suspects had rented it. For They are seeking a third suspect, Jerry Gilbertson. They quickly found out Gilbertson was an alias for Pezzuto, and that he was also wanted in Washington for two other murderers that happened in May.

Stephanie

Busy. Busy guy. Let him out. And he's immediately. Rape to murdering. Several. He's immediately a serial killer. Wowie. Great decision. Whoever was on that board of decisions. 20 to 40? Mmm! You can't even round it up. Ha ha

Dani

ha ha ha ha ha. Come on. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. The Valley County Sheriff utilized dogs to search for Pizzuto around the Gold Fork area, just southwest of Donley. While searching for the third suspect, the Sheriff's Department received information from a vacationer, Roger Bacon. That's kind of a Roger Bacon. Roger was found by a deputy at a campground near Gold Fork Hot Springs. He flagged down Corporal Bob Clements near campground. Roger said he met Pizzuto at the campground. And Pizzuto ended up pointing a gun at him. Okay,

Stephanie

what is the deal here? Calm down. No low profile here. No. Just waving your gun around.

Dani

Pizzuto, said the police were after him and he needed money and a car. Roger recalled Pizzuto saying to him, I'm a highway man.

Stephanie

Okay, well, he's a highway man. And that

Dani

he was desperate because the fuzz was after him and he needed my money and my car. Not the fuzz. The fuzz! People really used to that, it's so well to me. I, I should have looked up that reference, like, I know what it means, but I should have looked that up. Okay, who's Googling right now? How did that come about?

Stephanie

the term the fuzz is an old fashioned slang term for police officers that originated in the 60s and 70s. The exact origin of the term is unclear, but there are several theories. Radiostatic, the term may come from the sound of static. Fuzzy hats, British police officers are known to wear hats with a fuzzy feel. Short haircuts. Police officers often have a short fuzzy haircut. I don't think that's a mispronunciation. It might be a humorous mispronunciation of the force or a hippie expression. Hippies who had long hair may have called police officers the fuzz by comparison. I think it's maybe the static sounds the most.

Dani

I'm really feeling the static. I, that makes sense. I like it. Let's go with that.

Stephanie

The fuzz is after me. Give me your money and your car.

Dani

Pizzuto used Roger's shoelaces to tie his hands behind his head. He's such a planner. He's like, I'm gonna go rob somebody. Oh, shit. Give me your shoelaces, too. He used Roger's shoelaces to tie his hands behind his head. And then, Pazutto removed his own shoelaces to tie, to tie Roger's feet together.

Stephanie

So now he's flip flopping around with his shoelaces. And I'm sorry, that would piss me off if someone used my own shoelaces to tie me up. I'd be like, oh, okay. Yeah, thanks. I'd be so pissed.

Dani

And also, thank you for ruining my chances of running away, because now I've got my flippity floppity shoes over here. My tennies are all fucked up, can't even run. You mastermind criminal, you.

Stephanie

Genius over here.

Dani

Roger told Pizzuto where he could find the keys to his vehicle. While Pizzuto was looking for the keys that weren't really there. Look, we got a, we got a smart one here, kids. We got a smart one. Roger literally chewed through the shoelaces around his feet. Get it, Roger. I picture this in my head. He's like, I'd be dead because

Stephanie

there

Dani

is no way I'm getting my ankles to my mouth. He's very bendy.

Stephanie

It's very bendy. This reminds me of that video where Melissa McCarthy is like in a Like in a meeting with another parents and she's like, you know quarter a rep. I'll shoot through

Dani

you Uh, what is that is it uh 40 wait, it's 40 something. This is 40 or something. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I just I know My teeth are not reaching ankles No, I'd be dead. We got double

Stephanie

jointed Roger over here. That's like Well, you

Dani

know, I'm he was at the hot springs. He could have been all he was very Lexi and Bindi and relaxed Or just fucking scared out of his goddamn

Stephanie

mind. He's like, I could turn myself into a pretzel if I wanted to. It's a party trick of mine, so you're not getting me on this shit, bro.

Dani

So Roger chewed through the shoelaces around his feet and flagged down Clements at the campground. The cop? Roger was found within ten minutes of him being tied up. He was scared. He's like, Pizzuto said he was gonna come back to kill him. He's like, not today, Satan. Not today. Okay, and I mean, I know that there's police, I mean, sheriff and, and Forest Service people up there monitoring these campgrounds, but how fuckin lucky. So lucky. And the skill

Stephanie

to chew through shoelaces. He was gnawing at them.

Dani

Clemens said his mouth was all bloody. And, yeah. And his hands were still tied behind his back, but he was able to run.

Stephanie

Kind of.

Dani

Despite you taking his fucking shoelaces, you bitch. So the manhunt is on. On August 9th, 1985, Pizzuto, age 29, was located in Great Falls, Montana. Police found him. Surrounded the trailer Pizzuto was in after they received a tip. Idaho County Sheriff Baldwin said he received the tip from Stanley Say it.

Stephanie

I'm gonna guess Sims iac, but that's as good as I got. There's a Z in there, and I'm not sure if it's silent or

Dani

what. It was beautiful. Thank you Received a tip from Stanley who said he gave Pizzuto a ride to Missoula. It's about a five hour drive from the Valley County area Stanley was considered missing since July 31st, when Pazutto forced him by gunpoint to drive him to Missoula. Oh

Stephanie

my

Dani

gosh, he's just criming all over the place. That's a long drive. I, that's a long five hour drive. Yeah, that

Stephanie

is not a, I can't imagine doing a forced road trip with a psychopath like this. road trips, they're already, I'm sure they're not even gonna, like, get good snacks or anything. At gunpoint, you're just driving.

Dani

You know they're not stopping at a convenience store to piss. Yeah. That's where you, that's what, that's the opportunity to get those snackies.

Stephanie

In this situation, I probably also have bubble guts, you got a gun at you.

Dani

Yeah. What am I supposed to do? They were shitting and pissing on the side of the road.

Stephanie

Yeah, not the fun road trip.

Dani

last time Stanley was seen was at a roadblock in Valley County. With Posito as his passenger. Oh,

Stephanie

again, can we get a hand for law enforcement? Thank you. Thank you. I bet he was, I bet he was making the most forceful eye contact. Like, how do I Morse code? We

Dani

don't even have any snacks in here. Morse code for snacks. Do you see any snacks in this truck? There is obviously something wrong. I'm on a road trip. No snacks. Do I look like I'm willing to be here? They should train, they should train the cops that way, like, um, when you're pulling over somebody and they say they're on a long trip and there's no snacks, suspicious as fuck.

Stephanie

Cause I mean, I remember doing that type of shit when you, I'd go to the bank with my mom, go to the drive through like little thing and they always gave out suckers, but only if they could see that you're there. So I'd be like making the biggest puppy dog, like, hello, please do not forget my sucker. I bet it was that kind of look.

Dani

Hmm.

Stephanie

Like, notice me. Go

Dani

on your way, good fellas. The pair was questioned by a Valley County deputy, but the deputy failed to recognize Pizzuto, who had given a false name. Gary. 101.

Stephanie

101. Let's see the ID. Why can't we see the ID?

Dani

Cause I was thinking about this, Damon. I'm like, how in the hell did they get out of there? It's not like you can backtra like, you have to take a major road out of there. Yeah, there's

Stephanie

a few

Dani

ways in and out, yeah. But it's not a lot. A couple. You set up a fucking roadblock. Do you not have a picture of this motherfucker?

Stephanie

It's the purpose of the roadblock. You should be focused, right?

Dani

Focus. So back at, back in Missoula. At the trailer. After a three hour standoff, police in Montana used tear gas to flush Pizzuto out of the trailer, suspected to be the home of his sister Angela. This is movie time ready. Pizzuto waved a white flag from the rear door of the home and was arrested. Good,

Stephanie

okay, they did something right.

Dani

Got him out of there. Even though Pizzuto was wanted in Washington in connection with two other murderers, Washington deferred jurisdiction to Idaho due to the multiple defendants in the case. Like, you get him first. Yeah, well, we'll catch up later. And, they're like, oh, Idaho's brutal on the, get em. They're like, death penalty's coming for this fucker. Yeah, they're gonna take care of it. Yeah, so. they still reserve the right to prosecute Pizzuto later. So, like, no harm, no foul, we'll just, we'll catch you on the backside. We're good. Pizzuto, for some reason, is fighting extradition to Idaho. It's gonna happen, bro. It's happening. in front of Montana District Judge McCarvel, he thanked the authorities for allowing him time to see family members. And he said the jail staff was nice in handling him. Five

Stephanie

stars. Five out of five stars. Enjoyed my stay. He wrote

Dani

him a very nice review on Airbnb. He finally quit fighting his extradition and was formally charged with two first degree murder charges on August 26th in Idaho County. So, some of my confusion was, and I just have to remember that Idaho and Valley County, so, A lot of these places that we were talking about are in Valley County, but the murders actually happened in Idaho County. So, they were up there in the mountains, very close, and so.

Stephanie

Idaho has a lot of counties.

Dani

We're a very

Stephanie

large state, actually. Actually, we have a very large state. We do. It's just no one lives here. There's like 10 people here. We don't have Like, um, plumbing or paved roads, anywhere, so. We use potatoes for toilet

Dani

paper.

Stephanie

Plenty of potatoes. Don't get me started on that. Which is not

Dani

even, you know, let me just tell you people always. Are there any potato fields around here? No. Thank you. Okay.

Stephanie

Yeah, we have a lot of hops. We have a lot of sugar taters, sugar beets. Sugar beets.

Dani

We got the sugar beets. So, Lenny Odom had the murder charges dropped against her, but she is still being held on the charge of grand theft and Prosecutor Henry Boomer. Stated he intends to charge her with accessory after the fact. On September 5th, William Odom, Lenny's husband, pleads innocent of robbery and murder charges. He had no idea what was going on.

Stephanie

We'll see. Maybe. This seems like a very dangerous guy to hang out with, Pizzuto, so I'm like y'all are dumb. He's killed people. Yeah, there's

Dani

gonna be some stuff referenced here in a little bit that you're like, oh yeah, this is your friend? Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Your friend?

Stephanie

I'm gonna have some separation there.

Dani

Later in September, both Pizzuto and Rice, the tattleteller, Which, not judging, good for you, Price put innocent, on the charges of first degree murder and robbery before Judge Reinhart. I think we've seen Judge Reinhart before in one of our episodes. It sounds familiar. Is it?

Stephanie

We only have so many. There's ten people here. This is the entire population of Idaho is in this case.

Dani

I want to say it was Creech. Isn't that the one that they moved up north? From all the publicity? I don't know. Okay. But I just have to say. They're in this tiny, tiny county in Idaho and They're, they're picking attorneys from these tiny, tiny. There's not a lot of selection I'm sure. So the attorney for Bizzuto is Scott Wayman from Orofino, And Rice's attorney is William D. from Grangeville.

Stephanie

Tiny towns.

Dani

Um, probably not handled any murder cases before. the population of Idaho County in 1985 was 17, 539 people. Okay, so I was off a little bit when I said ten. Yeah. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Um, but the total area is about, 8, 500 square miles. So it's approximately 10 percent of the total state of Idaho. Yeah,

Stephanie

Valley County is huge. Idaho County. Oh, Idaho County. Yeah,

Dani

it's Idaho County. So out of 17, 500 people they probably only had two defense attorneys is These were the ones. And that was it. They got him. It's time

Stephanie

to shine.

Dani

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. And shine they do. Okay, I'm excited. Vodka vodka. Dingle dingle.

Stephanie

Dingle dingle.

Dani

In January of 1986, James Michael Rice, 27, pleads guilty to a reduced charge of second degree murder. This is our tattle teller. This was done in exchange of his testimony in the trial of Pizzuto and Odom. Not friends. They're not friends. Rice stated he was panning for gold on July 25th when the Herndons drove by. He spoke with him briefly about mining before they drove off, which is a very Idaho thing. Like, Hey, what are you doing up here? Are you doing me or we're doing this too? what kind of drugs were involved in this? Like, let's just pack up and have a little party. Let's, let's go find some gold, bro. Rice said that later Pizzuto came to the cabin where they were staying to get Odom's rifle. Pizzuto said, I'm going to go hunting and get me some meat. And the pair left together. Then Odom returned back to the cabin and told Rice and Leen, I think Jerry is gonna go kill those people. And so this is the

Stephanie

person you're hanging out with and that's your first thought? Yikes.

Dani

Rice stated that he and Odom then went to the Herndon's cabin, like something's going down. Pizzuto then exited the cabin where he was wearing Del's boots and his ring. Rice and went into the cabin. He said a man was in there and his feet were shaking I looked at the lady and she had a big old blood spot on the back of her head

Stephanie

Oh my god,

Dani

the man was covered with blood I took the rifle and I shot him between the eyes to put him out of his misery

Stephanie

Okay, because I was wondering right the heck he got second degree murder if he was just telling police about this story I don't even know what to think about that. if I saw that I would be trying to find my way to get the hell out because

Dani

So, yeah, it's a it's a somber moment to think about if you walked in and saw somebody like that You Um, and how, how you would handle, I mean,

Stephanie

Well, how do you have to act? Because Pizzuto clearly is willing to just shoot anyone, Tie up anyone for anything he needs, So if you let on anything, Right, he's just gonna be like, Well, there's already two bodies here, what's a third? Or however many bodies there were.

Dani

Pizzuto then ordered rice to dig a grave for the two But when rice protested Pizzuto threatened to kill him. Shocker. We knew that was coming. Yeah. I'm surprised it didn't happen. This guy's

Stephanie

fucking off his rocker. Well, and he's, now he's got witnesses, and so even though he also was participating, now he's got someone else. Like, you're on my side.

Dani

You're on my side or you're gonna die.

Stephanie

But Odom

Dani

interjected. So, he, I kind of feel like Rice was kind of a, not the favorite in the group, right? He was an easy picker. In a

Stephanie

trio, there's always that weird

Dani

Yep, third wheel, and I feel like Rice was that guy. And whether it was his personality, his stature, I'm not sure. But there was something about him that Pizzuto was like, You're my bitch, and you're gonna do what I say. Interesting dynamics here, for sure. Rice marked one of the graves with a rock, with the intention of telling the police about the murder when he had a chance. Rice said that Pizzuto stole 900 from the Herndons, which was later split up between the three. You took the money, though, dude. Yeah.

Stephanie

Why? He's like, I may as well have a little spending money.

Dani

But also After burying the bodies, the group returned back to the Cascade area, and Rice yeeted the fuck out of there. Rice purchased a bus ticket back to California. It

Stephanie

sounds like he knew his number was probably gonna come I mean, how many more situations like this can you be in where you're not gonna be on the chopping block? He was like, uh, I got I get the vibes. I'm

Dani

Clearly gotten. Um, I'm just gonna take this 300 bucks. And buy me some snackies and get on, get on the bus. I might go home. Uh, It's been fun, but it hasn't been real fun. I'm out guys. I'm out. Fuck your gold. Fuck your murders. Fuck your guns. I'm out. Rice said that Pazutto attempted to kill him several times. But Odum had prevented it.

Stephanie

He was scared. Odum's the mediator trying to keep the trio up and going. He's like, we can't be murdering each other, guys. I

Dani

see the dynamic.

Stephanie

Do you see it?

Dani

So, I'm seeing the dynamic. That's scary. And I do believe that Rice placed that rock so they could find the bodies. He's like, well, I'm probably gonna get killed

Stephanie

in, you know, Or we're gonna get busted, because it doesn't sound like they were very careful of trying to be non suspicious. Be suspicious. Be suspicious.

Dani

When Bryce returned to California, he contacted the authorities. Which is, the timing is about right. I'm telling you. He got on that fucking bus. I went home and called the cops and he said,

Stephanie

listen, listen

Dani

here, I got a story to tell you.

Stephanie

I've been fucking around. I nearly found out, um, that some shit went down.

Dani

Some shit went down. Uh, and it's, it's fucking far to California from here. It's far even to like the Chico area. What is that like 12 hours? Yeah. Yeah, it's far Can you imagine that bus ride home

Stephanie

on a damn bus? But he was like, no, I don't care how I have to get there. I'll be forced up. I'll run there Have you ever traveled on a bus? No, I did one time. Well, I take that back. I did when I was in band But we got a fancy, we did get a fancy charter bus. So you've never done the Greyhound? Not a Greyhound with a bunch of strangers, no. It was like a field trip for us, so of course it was fun and everyone had snacks and it's a bunch of smelly teenagers.

Dani

See, that's fun. Try riding a regular Greyhound. No, with a bunch of psychopaths. It's disturbing and scary and I speak from experience. Did you know that? I haven't told you this story. How many times have you been riding on a bus, Dani? So, there was a time when I'd be broke. Oh wait, no, that's right now. Also, same. Also right now. I'm

Stephanie

like relatable, yes. Also right

Dani

now. Um, but I was, let's see. I had to be 22 or 23. And you can judge me with all your comments, but I had my six year old son. I did that. He's a fucking awesome human being. I did all right. Anyways, uh, I was living in Portland and I wanted to come back home and see my mom and dad for Christmas and couldn't afford flights. Couldn't really afford the gas either.

Stephanie

So you get on a bus Yeah. And, um,

Dani

It was okay on the way here, and, my mom came down to the valley to pick us up to go up to Valley County, Cascade. That's where my parents were living, and we were here for like three days. Do you know who brought me back down? Who? Grandma and Grandpa! Lucille and Dawn! Brought, brought me back down to the valley and dropped me back off at the Greyhound bus station. But anyway, There was this psychotic fucking lady sitting behind me and my son on that bus and she was, it scared the living shit. First of all, she was cursing and off the charts terrible language from the lady behind you. This is where you got it. This is why you're the way you are. Risa, it's based in trauma, okay? This is exactly, no, but I had my son With me and She was also this lady was also screaming at her child to shut up shut the fuck up That's what it was like. It wasn't just like she's like shut the fuck up and she was like being so Like I went to the bus driver when we had a stop and I was like, I'm very concerned for this child I was concerned for the child sitting behind. Yeah. Well good for you for saying something She did get removed off the bus at one point. I can't remember if it was Pendleton or whatever. Anyway, it was scary You And I decided that if, at that moment, if I could not afford to travel by car or by airplane, which even airplanes are scary now, I mean, TikToks, oh my god. Wild. that I would not be traveling. It was a very horrible experience. So. No more greyhounds for Dani. No more greyhounds for me. One and only. So. I'm like, how bad could it be? You found out. It was pretty fucking bad. So. So a damn greyhound bus to California. Yikes. Right. So. And then just reliving the whole fucking experience that, what just happened. It's not like I'm on a bus with a bunch of fucking weirdos. It's like, oh my god, what are we gonna do? I just saw people bludgeoned to death. These guys were, they, they, they were tied up in a chair. Yeah. And the magical hammer slipped. Yeah. Several times. Whoopsie. Don't know. Boomerang hammer. Don't know how that happened. Just slipped out of my hands. When Rice returned to California, he contacted the authorities. He told several versions of what had happened that were false, right? So he lied because he had shot Del, right? So basically he told what happened but didn't want to say that he was the one that shot Del. So they're like, you told so many different stories. He's like, well, I'm telling you what happened, but also I didn't shoot that guy. Okay, maybe I did. Right, so he was trying to like get out of it. He was trying to find a way to completely separate himself. Yeah In March an Ada County jury was selected and sent to Grangeville for the trial of Pizzuto. Change of venue Lead change He's standing trial for two counts of first degree murder by premeditation And two counts of first degree murder during the commission of a robbery and one count of grand theft robbery. So, let me just tell you. I was having a hard time with this, wrapping this around my head. Okay. When I was, how do you get charged for two counts of first degree murder by premeditation and two counts of first degree murder during the commission of a robbery? That's like four counts of murder, but only two people died. Yeah, I thought that was, I had written that down. I was like, wouldn't that be like a double jeopardy? I'm not a lawyer. Lawyers of the world. But maybe you could be. Hang on. Are you saying like I could present an equal defense? Probably better. I'm pretty passionate about it. So I was like, how is this even working? So yeah, stay tuned. During the trial, Delbert, Berta's husband, testified. This makes me sad and shady. It's just, when Delbert, was asked about his relationship with Angela Pizzuto, Trailer sister Missoula. Mm hmm. He stated that he had met her the previous November during the preliminary trial and Angela told him she was unemployed and having a hard time financially. Why are you even talking to her, Mr. Herndon? This is very confusing to me. Why? I mean So to clarify, was it Herndon's wife that was killed? Right. And now he's talking to the killer's sister. She must have been very attractive. This is a Her wily ways. A twist I didn't see coming. So he mailed her 200 to help her with her expenses. Okay, like, Mr. Herndon, you robbed, you robbed, your brother robbed and killed my family but I'm just trying to help. You're down and out? He, you're down and, anyway, you are harboring a fugitive, ma'am. Pazuta's attorney asked if he promised to send 500 more to Angela and asked if he had invited her to go on vacation in Hawaii and name her the beneficiary of his estate. What the hell? This is moving very quickly. Why? Beneficiary? Yeah. Your brother killed my wife, do you want my shit when I die? Not okay, Mr. Herndon. Not okay. We're changing beneficiaries now? For Wow. Delbert, of course, denied this. In court. But when Angela testified, she said Delbert had promised her all of those things. And she also testified her brother told her he had killed two people. Gotta believe in Angela. I mean, she's saying it about her brother, so what's her benefit to lie about that? Exactly. Mr. Herndon. I would have never expected this. That'd be like Emma, Chad's daughter, asking like Kay and Larry or Could you help me pay the mortgage where your kids were buried? Can I be the beneficiary for you? Yeah. Wait. Exactly the same. Fucking weird. Okay. Mr. Herndon. On the third day of trial, Pizzuto is removed after he became agitated when the judge refused to acknowledge him. Aww. Listen to me. Aww. Pay attention to me. Pizzuto had raised his hand. During a recess and the judge ignored him. You're at recess. Um, and shut the fuck up. It's not official court proceedings. And that's when Pizzuto got pissy. Judge Reinhart raised his finger towards him and signaled to the deputies like, you know, be on guard. When his attorneys attempted to calm him down they could not do it. So they're like, let's just, let's just go. And so they escorted him out of the courtroom. Nightmare client. Uh. Yeah. Excuse me. Excuse me. I'm raising my hand. He's like, no, that's not how any of this works. That's not how this works at all. Shut the fuck up. During the trial, testimony presented showed that Berta and Del both died from blunt force trauma caused by a hammer and that Del had also been shot with a 22. After only four hours of deliberation, the jury came back with guilty verdicts on all counts. In May, 2nd District Judge Reinhardt is set to sentence Pizzuto. Pizzuto told the judge he never compromised with officials because he did not kill the Herndons. He said, quote, I will not plea bargain because I did not kill those people. That's a horrible thing they did. That is terrible. And Pizzuto is an upstanding gentleman from everything we've seen in his past. I mean, he went all the way to 19 years old without raping or killing anyone that we know of. He had a little rapey incident. A little whoopsie. Whoops! Must not have been that bad if you got less than half of the range of years you were supposed to get. And then as soon as he got out, you know, Yeah, he had a few accidents, but he's been a model, productive member of society. He's just mining for some fucking gold, bro. Yeah, I mean, just trying to make my way. Well rounded individual here. Livin off the land. About to get laid. To kill his friends all the time. Oh shit. Odom pled guilty to voluntary manslaughter. And remember earlier, Rice Tattleteller pled to second degree murder. I feel like Rice got fucked.

Stephanie

I think he did too, and I think, I think, listen, he probably could have lied his way out of this because just saying that you showed up there and the person was thruple. The person was

Dani

already shot. Yeah, there was a thruple. And so there could have been lots of lies, and in 1985, they did not have the forensic to prove. Right. So, he could have been like, hey, I didn't do any of this shit, but I'm going to tell you what I saw. Yeah, I did cover it up. I did bury the bodies because I was being fucking threatened by this maniac. Um, but no. So, I kind of feel like the second degree murder thing, I mean, I know he shot him, but But I feel like him telling the authorities where the bodies were at, I don't know. Well, and if the coroner said they died of blunt force

Stephanie

trauma, and the bullet didn't kill him, Idaho had no idea the murders even happened. They're like. There was a murder here? Since when? Huh? They're getting a call from California.

Dani

They're like, What happened? Are you sure? Are you? Can you imagine the cops going, Well, we haven't had any reported cases of people missing or anything. No, because they were out in the middle of fucking nowhere panning for gold. And they were gonna be out there

Stephanie

for a month or

Dani

whatever. A hot minute. So if they got a phone call, anyway. so we're to the sentencing hearing, witnesses testified at the hearing that Pazuta was severely abused as a child, two of his sisters testified from the time they were toddlers they were physically and sexually abused by a stepfather. And that sucks. Can I just tell you, parents, when you do this to your children you raise horrible people. Fucking parent your children. Or don't have children. To be. Somehow held accountable for their, if they're known to be a shitty parent, like quit being shitty parents. It's not all about you.

Stephanie

Yeah, well, and it's disgusting if they were abused like that. Yeah, I mean, but let's be real. How many women have had abuse, sexual, physical,

Dani

and we're not out here murdering. We're just, okay. Statistically, we're not out

Stephanie

here murdering at the same rate. So it's like, You don't get to just spend your six months out or however long he was out just murdering everyone

Dani

about it. And I do feel bad for the child. I mean, that's horrible. And, and fuck his mother. What a piece of shit.

Stephanie

Yeah.

Dani

What a piece of shit. That's what I'm saying. Like, you need to be held accountable for how, because it's nature versus nurture. I do believe that I, there's both sides of that. I do believe that there can be just people that are just born to be not good people. But I also believe that there are people put in situations like their stepfather is sexually abusing them and And you don't do shit? You're a fucking bitch. And they

Stephanie

develop the worst coping mechanisms and ways to get through it or disassociate and then, then you have no value of other people's

Dani

lives. And then you end up with murderers. Two of Pizzuto's sisters testified from the time they were toddlers they were physically and sexually abused by a stepfather. His sister Tony said, I saw Jerry get it worse than any of the other kids for no reason. You Their mother was rarely at home, and when they tried to tell her what was happening, she did nothing.

Stephanie

Thanks, mom. Really helpful in this. Well, we hear that a lot with child abuse cases. If there always seems to be one kid that's the scapegoat. And I don't know why that is. It's

Dani

actually like a, I read some Gabriel

Stephanie

Fernandez, right? It's,

Dani

they're, it's not scapegoat, but it's something It's an actual, like, phenomenon in psychology. Where they There's one child that's picked on for no reason. Like, they get the brunt of everything. There could be six kids and there's one that just gets it

Stephanie

all. And what really sucks is it fucks up all the kids because oftentimes the other kids are rewarded for treating this kid. Or, and it's the only way they can survive and keep the heat off them. Is to, like, make a show of also treating this other kid like shit. It's horrible. So it fucks them up too. It's just terrible.

Dani

Uh, Pizzuto tried to defend himself when he was a child and his sisters, but was rarely successful. And all of the older children ran away in their early and mid teens to escape the abuse. It was bad. Yeah. A clinical psychologist from Orofino that evaluated Pizzuto, said he had an antisocial disorder and probably could not be helped with therapy and I should rephrase that. The only clinical psychologist from Ortofino. We're trying. We have one. Better than none. He called him dangerous and a violent person. Judge Reinhart called the killing heinous, cruel, and cold blooded. Pizzuto was sentenced to death. Plus 14 years for grand theft and a fixed life sentence for robbery. Odom was given a 20 year indeterminate sentence Sentence for voluntary manslaughter and tattletale rice received two 20 year indeterminate sentences to be served concurrently. I feel like it got fucked. I mean, I know he shot the dude. Well,

Stephanie

and I mean, clearly they weren't doing good things. I don't think anyone in that little trio of friend group was a real upstanding citizen, but it feels like rice and maybe even Odom didn't want to take it that far, but kind of got wrapped up into it. I mean, Still, you gotta, you gotta find your boundary and your hard line somewhere, right? Yeah. So,

Dani

I kind of feel like Odom was the, the equalizer to the whole, like, just trying to keep everybody level so nobody else got shot. I do believe that. Well, and it sounds like you probably

Stephanie

saved Rice's life a few times. Mm

Dani

hmm. Mm hmm.

Stephanie

Because Udo had tried to kill him, like.

Dani

He's like, hey, bro, don't kill our friend. Oh my god. There's already murder hmm. Okay. So, uh, they will each end up spending 12 years in prison.

Stephanie

Okay.

Dani

I don't know what to say about that. 12 years in prison. So, in 1987, Pizzuto is sent to Washington to face two charges of first degree murder.

Stephanie

They're finally getting their get back.

Dani

Yeah. He's accused of strangling Rita Drury, age 51, who was babysitting her granddaughter on March 15th. This guy knows

Stephanie

no bounds.

Dani

1985. None. He's also charged with the shooting death of John Jones, 31, who was found on March 30th, 1985. 1985. In October, Pizzuto was convicted of second degree murder of John Jones. He shot Jones in the head at close range after the two argued about cocaine. Drugs. You knew it was coming. Drugs.

Stephanie

Drugs. Drugs. Drugs. They're wiling out.

Dani

Pazuta said it was an accident. Whoopsie. Close range accident. Yeah, what was

Stephanie

Cocaine and You like to wave that gun around.

Dani

Cocaine and drugs? What could possibly go wrong? Stop! On October 21st, they're moving quite quickly here. Yeah, they

Stephanie

are.

Dani

Pazuta was convicted of first degree murder of Rita. He strangled her during an apparent robbery. And he only got 200. Again, it's like, crime better. So listen to these sentencings. This, I just, they're odd numbers for me. It's just really weird. Okay. Pazuta was sentenced to 28 years and 6 months for murdering John Jones.

Stephanie

Very specific

Dani

and 41 years and one month for strangling Rita.

Stephanie

Like how do you get the extra one month? Like just because of the stupidity of it or the unnecessary unnecessary ness because that's stupid.

Dani

I love that word.

Stephanie

How unnecessary it was, like, I'm sure Rita, if she was babysitting, wasn't wanting to lose her life and endanger a child over 200. Was she babysitting?

Dani

Her grandchild, yeah.

Stephanie

Okay.

Dani

And I just, let me just say this really quick, because I have limited resources for my research. I mean, I research the fuck out of shit. But I couldn't find obituaries for not one victim in the story. That's insane. I could not find a one. So, the lack of, victim history. I don't have it. I don't have it. I literally researched Rita Drury murder in

Stephanie

Washington. Nothing. And that's not a John Smith name. You feel like, I feel like you should get something. Right.

Dani

John Jones was, I was like, well, I can see John Jones. That's a very, and there's a lot of stuff that came up on John Jones. But no obit or anything even about the murder happening. Yeah. But Rita Drury, I'm like, getting murdered, watching her, nothing in the fuck, Seattle do better. There was nothing in the fucking papers. Nothing.

Stephanie

They're not the statesmen. That's all I can say.

Dani

Just saying. after his sentencing, he told the judge. Thank you, Your Honor, for sentencing me to a murder I did not do. You're welcome. Pizzuto, Pizzuto did have an accomplice, in one of the murders, John T. Rodewald, and he pled guilty to first degree robbery in exchange for his testimony against Pizzuto. So he got off easy. Yeah, he did. Yeah. Uh, and then Pazuta was returned to Idaho. Washington's like, Come back to Taterland, baby. We done it. We did our job. You are convicted. Two times over. Now, let Idaho go handle your, or not handle your sentence. Yeah, because we know this is going to be a back and forth. So, 1988, pills, pills, pills. And of course, the first appeal is automatic, 19 challenges are raised.

Stephanie

That's extraordinary.

Dani

Mm hmm.

Stephanie

Kind of sad.

Dani

1991, out of the 19 challenges, 18 are rejected by the Idaho Supreme Court. Oh. The one that was upheld was that Pazuta was improperly sentenced to an additional life term without the possibility of parole for robbery.

Stephanie

And again, we don't want to sound like a broken record, but this is because. Idaho was acting, what Danny? Unconstitutionally. The judge cannot do that sentence. The jury has to do it.

Dani

Well, not only that, but it violated the double jeopardy.

Stephanie

The two and two? Yeah, you can't be charged for four different murder charges when two people are dead. I mean, can we?

Dani

Math ing.

Stephanie

No, two people dead does not equal this many murder charges. You don't get

Dani

four counts of murder when two people die, so. Saw

Stephanie

that one coming.

Dani

You know what? I

Stephanie

don't, don't give a fuck. We don't, we don't do math. You're not the boss of me. You want us to add stuff up? You're not the fucking

Dani

boss of me. So the court said the crime for robbery was a lesser crime and included in the offense of the murder charges. Like you, so that portion of Pizzuto's sentence was vacated. Okay. Not that it really technically matters because he has the death penalty to deal with. But. They're like, oh no all your other ones. Those are valid, but you cannot charge him with murder four times Thank you, because there was how many murders? Two. Let's do some math. Let's do some tater math. Come on, Idaho Little, this is a little kind of side track here in 1994, you remember Kenneth Eugene Wells? Mm hmm. Yeah, he got executed. There's a little blurb in, in the papers about that night of the execution. Uh, 1994, IDEO 6. C are investigating reports that death row inmates were mocked and harassed on the night of a fellow inmate's execution. Kenneth Eugene Wells, they said the guards were playing another one Bites the Dust and Neil Young's the needle on the damage done through the intercom system. Oh, I don't know the second song, but another one bites the Dust. Everyone knows that is definitely uh, a banger for sure. Banger for sure. brain. Pizzuto said it rattled everybody in here. There were also reports the officers told the inmates you're next and get ready for your last meal. You want a little surprise guest?

Stephanie

Who's our surprise guest? Thomas Creech! I knew it. I was waiting for him. I was like, did he get stabbed? Sliced? Was there an attempt?

Dani

He said he only heard Christmas music that night.

Stephanie

This is what a wild turn. What guards was he friends with? Because remember the guards all said that Creech was so pleasant. So he's like, he's doing what he needs to do. These guards are my friends. I never even thought about that! Yeah. I was like, didn't. Didn't see nothing, didn't hear nothing. So manipulative. He's like, How am I going to get my razor blade toothbrush around if I tell on them? It's the holidays. It's time for Christmas. Our special

Dani

musical guest, Thomas Greech. They're going to take

Stephanie

away my razor blades if I tell on them. I love these guys. They play us Christmas music. They're very festive. Deck the

Dani

halls, bitch. Deck the halls. Uh,

Stephanie

sorry. That's wild. I knew you'd get a kick out of that. I love that. That's like my favorite tidbit of this whole thing. Let me

Dani

surprise Gus. 2002, the 9th U. S. Circuit Court of Appeals upholds the death penalty for Pizzuto. On other appeals, Pizzuto is claiming to be mentally incompetent, which would be an aggravating circumstance for capital punishment. Pizzuto's IQ is 72. And the Idaho standard for being mentally incompetent is 70, with a margin of error of 5 points. Okay. So, Pazuta's attorneys are saying that he could actually have an IQ of 67. Idaho got smart. They learned how to They learned how to math. Okay. They're like, Uh, well, it also could mean he has an IQ of 77. So

Stephanie

It's a firm rebuttal in my opinion.

Dani

I also wanted to tell you so capital punishment I looked this up. This is my learning experience. I don't I just always thought capital punishment I mean in my brain was like government. Mm hmm. I don't know. I don't know where it came, but it actually It capital punishment comes from Latin and medieval French words that refers to the punishment that involves person an The loss of life or the loss of a head. I always thought like capital like I'm thinking like government. Capital. I

Stephanie

am the same. Thank

Dani

you.

Stephanie

I am so loss of life or loss of a head as punishment is what? What equals capital? Punish is what? Is capital. Not like

Dani

what we think of capital.

Stephanie

Once again, guys who knew about this

Dani

learning, I'm here to all these

Stephanie

phrases that we hear so often. If you guys are listening to true crime and stuff, and I mean capital cases come up all the time, I would've never guessed that. I

Dani

just thought capital.'cause it was like the government capital punishment is punishment from the government. But actually. The capital word, capital punishment is coming from, yeah, from

Stephanie

Latin. And you know, my Latin is a bit rough. Rusty. So.

Dani

Apparently, mine too. What is the, I should get on the, what is one of those, I hear them all the time where you purchase the app and it teaches you how to do

Stephanie

Duolingo. I'm only going with Duolingo because they, their TikTok is above and beyond.

Dani

Duolingo

Stephanie

sponsors. Not on my FYP. Oh my gosh. We will look. Okay. Let's just say unhinged. Very much like Brat Summer Duolingo. Fuck yeah!

Dani

Oh, I like it. So, I mean, we're up to 2019. Very recent. Because, you know, a pills, a pills, a pills. In November 2019, Pizzuto was put in hospice care. he has late stage bladder cancer, type 2 diabetes, and chronic heart disease that has caused him a heart attack. And, because, you know, they still have all these a pills. In 2021, Pizzuto files a petition for clemency. He has an execution date for June 2nd. Ida's getting their shit together like, Okay, we're actually going to do something and move forward. they would like his sentence commuted to life so he can die naturally. His attorneys say he could die any day now. Clemency is recommended by the Commission of, Pardons and Parole. And Governor Brad Little said, No.

Stephanie

Wow.

Dani

I'm the boss. But in 22, guess what? The governor is not the boss. He has no say. So Bazzuto's sentence was reduced to life in prison. A judge ruled that the governor has no power to reject a clemency recommendation under the Idaho constitution. And Idaho says, ah,

Stephanie

we

Dani

do what we want. Hold my fucking beer. Uh, hello, Supreme Court. Yeah. Will you take a fucking look at this? Because I'm the governor and I say, Fuck pardons and parole.

Stephanie

Big man, Brad Little.

Dani

Yep. That's exactly what's happening. So he takes it to the Supreme Court. He, they, Idaho fought, like, they're like, uh, No, so meanwhile, Idaho does not fucking mess around. Well, yeah, hey voters, you want to disapprove this Constitution amendment that limits the power of the parole board? And Idaho's voters said, Yes, please. Hell yeah, brother.

Stephanie

Hell yeah, brother.

Dani

Yes, please. So, by the time it gets to the Supreme Court,

Stephanie

we're like, yeah, we don't even need that anymore, but thank you.

Dani

They say, yeah, well, now the governor does have the power. He is the end all with the clemency. Is that not fucking wild?

Stephanie

Yeah, it's not very comforting. I mean, I would. Your face, right? They're like, yeah, we're gonna ask you guys, but in the meantime, we know you guys take a while. So. We can push this. We're just gonna change the

Dani

fucking laws.

Stephanie

Priorities. I mean, it's not like our roads are falling apart And you know, there's a housing crisis and homeless crisis expanding. We need to be able to be our own boss girl bossing Brad Little

Dani

Like um, yes, could you take a peek at this and by the way, we're just hey voters let's let's get this done And they fucking did!

Stephanie

Hell yeah

Dani

so A death warrant is issued for Pizzuto.

Stephanie

And for me, I mean, we know Creech is very frail. This guy's got diabetes, bladder cancer, heart disease, had a heart attack. For me, I'm like, especially with the budgetary concerns, I'm like, what costs more? Like, why not just let him die? Now we have to go and talk to Black Doug and get our drugs. They do. They fucking do find Black Doug. Black Doug again.

Dani

And it's like shit. Do you know we've been talking about the expenses? We have

Stephanie

talked about it, and I don't know the expenses. I do know for him,

Dani

for Pazutto, I do know. In 2023, it was reported that they had spent 1. 3 million dollars housing him. And you know what? I am betting that doesn't include hospice or attorney fees.

Stephanie

I didn't get too detailed. But at this point, how much more is I mean, he said he could die any day, he hasn't though, so it's like. Well we're, he's been in hosp,

Dani

look, I don't know how you, when somebody is on hospice to me, it's like weeks, months. Yeah. Not fucking years. Somebody. That is a little suspish. Somebody's not fucking tell, he could die any day now, really? Cause that was in 2019 and it's 2023 now. We're only to 2023. Okay. A death warrant was issued at the end of 2022, just to make it more confusing. But, Idaho don't have the damn drugs. Oh.

Stephanie

Why did you do that? They lost Black Dog's number. Why did you do that? Why are we doing a death warrant when we can't even do it?

Dani

So, in 2023 Idaho says, Yep! Let's bring back the good ol fighting squad! And, and they did. Attorneys for Pizzuto are still asking to commute a sentence to life. But with the latest death warrant issued, then we are back to appeals because Pizzuto's attorney said, it's cruel and unusual punishment to keep issuing death warrants when the state doesn't have the drugs to do it. Fair. I get that. Like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, maybe you're gonna die in 30 days. Oh, JK. We can't,

Stephanie

we couldn't have even done it.

Dani

We can't find the drugs. Okay, let's issue another death warrant. Like, this was several times. This, this happened. Like, okay, we're gonna, oh no, just kidding. Yeah, like,

Stephanie

from a planning point of view, like, why are we bothering? Like we're putting the cart before the horse or whatever the saying is. Like. No, cuz. It's the state of Idaho. Boom, boom. We just wanted to shake your cage a little bit and play you some Christmas music. We just wanted to play you a little Christmas music for fun. I can't believe fucking, I didn't hear none of the Christmas music. These guys are great. These guys are great. They let me have so many razors. These guys are my buds.

Dani

So we're up to 2024. The state of Idaho has the drugs now, which we all know they got the drugs, right? Because they found the black dog and they failed on the creech. But they purchased three doses for 100. 10, 000.

Stephanie

Damn, Gina.

Dani

Two of those were prepared for Creech and his boss execution in February. Why?

Stephanie

Well, how does it cost that much? American healthcare slash death care system. We're getting really raked over the coals with these prescription drug prices. It's just horrible. so they have one dose

Dani

left.

Stephanie

There's no good Rx with Black Doug.

Dani

No. Where's Mark Cuban? Nothing. Nobody's helping this guy out. They're buying into the fucking Walmart. Anyways. They know we're desperate. But they are working on that fucking firing squad. It's gonna, they are working, they are building it,

Stephanie

you know, and again, priorities. Our tax dollars, hard at work. That is clearly the focus.

Dani

But I will say, let me just tell you, in my research, about the firing squad and all that, there was some very good points brought up. Like, Why do we have a penalty for a crime that we're unable to carry out? It's that, no, that is a great point. Like, so we're issuing these death penalties with no real way to do it because of the drug situation. And that was one of the arguments in the firing squad. I'm talking, when Idaho wants to change the law, they fucking make it happen. It gets

Stephanie

rammed through the legislature. Them good ol boys.

Dani

Them good ol boys. But for me,

Stephanie

in my opinion, I'm like, if we don't have a way to do it, do we want to spend all this money trying to do it? Or do we just want to not do that sentence anymore because it's impossible for us to do? Do we want to pay 100, 000 for three doses? We are the most

Dani

conservative state. We rank in the top five for the most conservative states. Um, so, they're gonna make So, currently, Pizzuto is 68 years old, and has been in custody for 38 years, and still on hospice, 5 years later, when his attorney said he could. Yeah, that's

Stephanie

confusing to me, to be on hospice care.

Dani

It bothers me to think, not that, are they giving him life saving drugs for his cancer?

Stephanie

I don't know, because I thought that hospice was like death care, almost, like, Keeping you comfortable. We're not trying to fix the problem because that's my understanding,

Dani

but I feel like five years

Stephanie

Yeah for like final thoughts that is surprising to me because I've had family on hospice care and we did really appreciate it And no hospice is beautiful. I followed this lady on tik tok. Oh, I love her the death care lady Yeah of and so it It is, you know, I feel like people deserve dignity and if you're gonna die naturally and Idaho can't get it done, then, like, sure. But are they giving

Dani

him cancer treatments?

Stephanie

I don't think they should because hospice is But I bet you they can.

Dani

I'm just curious about it. I couldn't find anything in my research, like Yeah, what's

Stephanie

up with your hospice? Because

Dani

if he, it'd just be ironic that they're giving him Medication to help extend his life or kill the cancer when he's on death row. Mm hmm, and I'm not talking about pain medic like Give him all of that like

Stephanie

I don't want anybody to suffer. Yeah bladder cancer diabetes heart disease Right sure that he's not having a fun go of it

Dani

But are they doing any life saving measures? As far as drugs. I don't think they should be but are they it's just really weird that he five years in a hospice care And he's still alive

Stephanie

to me.

Dani

So it kind of just makes me feel like that might be and at what point like oh God, I wish I had an attorney friend like at what point do they have to like what is Idaho's legal responsibility? To somebody who has a death penalty Like he's been convicted and should be put to death, but is an appeals. What is Idaho's? Obligation? Yeah to keep him alive

Stephanie

Yeah, cuz it's cut. It's two different messages, right? Right like

Dani

but I don't think I think I think it the Prisoners get chemo and stuff, right?

Stephanie

I'm sure that they don't get great health care. No, but

Dani

they're, like, if somebody's serving 30 years and they're in their 50s and they get cancer, they're not just not going to give them cancer treatments, right? They're gonna,

Stephanie

they're I think so. Y'all can sound out. Please let us know! Email us. Who knows

Dani

this shit? I want to know! We don't

Stephanie

know how this works. But in closing, I mean That's a lot. What a wild case of someone who Immediately in adulthood, out there raping violently, goes to jail, couldn't even keep him off the streets for the prescribed range of time. They're like, nine years is good, this is a great guy. and it didn't seem like anyone was a stranger to knowing that he was kind of a terrible man. So, how in the hell he got out at nine years, I don't know. Put him back on the streets, immediately out murdering four people, could have definitely been more. I mean, Roger had to gnaw through some shoelaces. He would have probably been dead.

Dani

And Rice was definitely high on the list. Tattle tattler Rice.

Stephanie

So it could have been 6, 8, I mean, it seemed like if he just got pissed this guy off or got in his way, he was unstable. So, we put him back out, in a short amount of time he does all these murders. And how lucky was that guy

Dani

that he gunpointed all the way to Missoula that he didn't get murdered,

Stephanie

right?

Dani

Lucky fucking dog, dude. A

Stephanie

lot of people got lucky with this guy because he did not have a regard for human life They called him, what was it? The antisocial disorder? Not.

Dani

It's just a generic term for But not

Stephanie

rehabilitation. There is no rehabilitation. Clearly, because I mean, if you go to jail for nine years and you immediately start work you can't keep your cool for a few months and be like, I'm going to enjoy freedom try to stay on the straight and narrow so I can get my shit

Dani

together.

Stephanie

No. No pew pew. No.

Dani

He's like, uh, give me a fucking gun and let's go look for some gold and kill some people. He's like, I am immediately

Stephanie

leaving this state, which is the first thing that's against the rules. Immediately leaving. Bye. Good story sis.

Dani

Thank you. Like and subscribe and share and give us word of mouth to all your friends If you like what we're doing, um, we appreciate you. We appreciate you listen Listening we have a great time doing this Lots of giggles and laughs for us. So thank you. Yes,

Stephanie

and if you have criticism, you know if if our Language is off the charts terrible to you You can say it. We are willing to listen to your criticism, and we thank you for it. So, peace out.

Dani

Bye.

Stephanie

Day four, rubber ducky. Fuck yeah.

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Dani

Host
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Stephanie

Host