Tack Box Talk
Tack Box Talk
Internships: The story of test driving a career
Dr. Betsy Greene, University of Arizona, and Dr. Kathy Anderson, University of Nebraska-Lincoln discuss why they recommend internships as a valuable experience for college students. Whether credit or non-credit, before or after graduation, internships may offer insights college students need.
Kris Hiney: Welcome to Extension horse's tack box talk series horse stories with a purpose. I'm your host, Dr. Kris Hiney, with Oklahoma State University, and today, we're going to be talking about college internships and their value for students. So with us today are 2 collegiate professors that have helped guide students through many an internship. So from the University of Nebraska. Returning guest, Dr. Kathy Anderson. Welcome back, Kathy.
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Kathleen Anderson: Hey? Thank you. Thanks for having me.
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Kris Hiney: And from the University of Arizona. Dr. Betsy Green. Welcome back, Betsy.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: Hey? Thank you. Good to be here.
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Kris Hiney: All right. So you guys have had quite a few students under your tutelage that have gone through internships. And I guess I wanna before we get into the nitty gritty. Maybe just give us some highlights about why do you think they can be beneficial, and why you might recommend students do an internship.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: Yeah, I can tell you that I think one of the best parts of it is a lot of times the internships don't turn out how they thought, and that is so much more valuable than students ever realize. They just think, oh, it wasn't great, but in in essence it helps them understand that what they thought they wanted was not what they want, and it helps them find
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: more. What will make them a satisfying career in life. That's a key thing that I would say.
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Kathleen Anderson: Yeah, I was going to say very much the same thing. Sometimes it really does a good job of
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Kathleen Anderson: figuring out what you really don't want to do it might not meet with your expectations. It's an opportunity to have a short term experience. It might be 3 months, 2 months. It might be a semester, but you're not locked into moving and thinking you've taken the next your courage out. So it's kind of like a test drive, you know. And you can say, Oh, I loved doing this, or, yeah, probably really not for me. So yeah.
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Kris Hiney: And I do want to balance that. So you guys both emphasize what you may not want to do. But sometimes they're like, oh, I love this, and this is what I want to do. So it isn't always like internships, or like.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: I think, for sure they they are great experiences. And a lot of students find out
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: so much more about it. And they say, okay, absolutely. But
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: yeah. And they also sometimes find different aspects of the same career. They were aiming for something, and then they see all the other aspects around it happening while they're doing the internship. It's like, Wow, I never thought about being like a pinhooker or a you know, for racehorses or something. I was just thinking I was going to train. And then they see all the different or somebody that has
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: art skills, and suddenly is creating Logos, or whatever the case, they find different opportunities that
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: are sitting there when they get there, but not really what they thought they were coming to do.
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Kathleen Anderson: It also to me might solidify something. You know I want to just. I don't know if I want to do this, so sometimes it can solidify that. Okay, yeah, I am passionate. I do want to do this. I do want to get into this. I know what it's going to take to do it. And so yeah, I mean, there's a lot of different ways. But, as I said, it's a little bit of a test drive for you to see. Yeah, I really like this,
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Kathleen Anderson: really didn't know what it was all about. Now, I have a better idea. So I'm gonna go for it. Yeah, or like, Betsy said. Sometimes it's I didn't know what the other opportunities were. So yeah.
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Kathleen Anderson: it.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: And I think on top of that, too. Sometimes it kind of jolts them into reality, that because they're riding through college having fun and learning, and, you know, participating in all the activities. And suddenly they get in that situation, and they see what it takes for that trainer, or whatever manager, or whatever to do that job, and they start getting a
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: kind of oh, I really have to work on this, or take this seriously
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: and helps them be better prepared when they get out of the college.
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Kris Hiney: So in the horse industry our internships can be pretty diverse. Right? So could you maybe go over, you know? Are there ones for super experienced kids? Or are there internship possibilities for kids that maybe didn't grow up riding and training horses like, what are the choices out there.
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Kathleen Anderson: I mean, I think that it's some of all of the above
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Kathleen Anderson: it can be some fairly novice folks, and it depends on where they go. I have a really good example of at Unl. Here we had a scholarship soccer player never had an opportunity to do much in the horse, and with riding and doing stuff with the horses.
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Kathleen Anderson: The Kentucky equine management internship program is a very excellent internship, but this is when it was very 1st starting, and so this individual she applied a little bit late, got on a very good farm.
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Kathleen Anderson: and 15 years later she's still working in the industry in Kentucky, you know. So it gave her an opportunity with minimum background, but a passion in that area to get some experience, to get her feet wet to get into a very good program, and she stayed within it. So you know. And then you have the other individuals that have a lot of experience, and they want to just either add to their resume or potentially go work
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Kathleen Anderson: for a trainer that maybe they never thought that they would work for on a short term internship or different things like that. So it can really open a lot of doors.
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Kathleen Anderson: another one that some of my students have done is with a vet clinic, a vet hospital down in Florida, and been in the reproductive side of things. And so you know, and that's an area that there is a pretty good horse folks that have done that, but they haven't had much reproductive experience, and that gave them some exposure some time in that area that they really hadn't had much opportunities to learn very much about or be very hands on about. So yeah.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: Yeah. And I think KEMI has been the Kentucky equine management internship has been great for a lot of students. We've had students that one of mine back at University of Vermont.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: hadn't ever done anything with racehorses, and but she had skills. And so by the time she came home she was actually exercising and
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: several of the young horses. So she got really great hands-on opportunities and brought skills and gained skills. Another one from years ago had absolutely minimal horse experience. But she went there and with us, knowing and understanding and talking about backgrounds.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: I think it helps them figure out which farms to put them on so that they'll get the best opportunity, whether it's gaining experience with horses not getting into over their head on horse situations.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: But that student ended up being in a business office of a breeding operation which was perfect because she loved horses. But she didn't have the skills to be day to day hands-on, but she had a career in something that was very satisfying to her.
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Kris Hiney: So they don't always have to be, you know.
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Kris Hiney: touching a horse, so there can be quite a few equine internships that aren't
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Kris Hiney: all the day to day, clean installs and brush and grooming right.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: Yeah. In fact, one of our students that we worked with extension horses for years went to the American horse publications, was doing an internship with them, and is now, I think, still working with the horse magazine. If I recall
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: and she's doing great, she's made a career, and I don't know that she necessarily
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: had that in her career headlights, but she found out that she was very good at it, and they really liked her, and she found a career out of it.
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Kathleen Anderson: You know you mentioned sometimes it's the Aha moment like I never thought this was an opportunity. So folks that I think of internships they need to explore a lot of different ways, because many of our breed associations they'll offer internships, quarters, Association, the Pain Horse Association. Different ones will offer up internships. And so yeah, like, you mentioned, there's a lot of different ways that they can be involved and do things. And
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Kathleen Anderson: you know, just a lot of different opportunities out there, some in the office, some out in the barn, and it just kind of really varies.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: And you know, the length, of course, varies incredibly. We've had students that have just recently gone to like Spike Coast Farm for a couple of weeks, maybe, or a spring break, and it's very small. So it's like you get a flavor. But you get information and you get information about yourself as well.
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Kris Hiney: So let's talk some of the nitty gritty on some of this, just so that students may have an expectation. So are all internship like, so they can be credit, not credit, paid, nonpaid. How are they going to know or navigate that process?
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Kathleen Anderson: I think, for our university students. They 1st need to find out what the requirements from their institution are. Some programs require students to do an internship. Okay, ours. It's
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Kathleen Anderson: it can be built into your curriculum, is it what we call an experiential learning? And we don't care if it's paid or unpaid. And then that's going back to where that internship might be.
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Kathleen Anderson: And so that's something that the students to me need to investigate and find out. Is is this a paid internship? Is there housing available? You know all those kinds of nuts and bolts, because there's a variety of different ones out there seems to me that a lot anymore that I hear about are paid. Some of the farms will provide housing, and that's just really going to vary with where they might be going. How about you, Betsy?
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: Yeah, you know, different. I've been at 3 different universities, and they all had different rules. They all had different expectations. But I do know that sometimes like at
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: so at most of the universities, if you want credit for it, of course, even if you're at the internship paid or unpaid, you still have to pay tuition to get that credit. And so
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: in some cases we would actually talk to students. Say, Hey, look! If you want internship credit. It was not required, but recommended. Then perhaps, if you're going off there for
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: semester or something, you might just do partial credit, but full internship, so that you're getting credit on your on your, you know record at the University. But you're not necessarily paying for 12 credits as a full-time student when
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: that's you know, you're getting the information you need. We also had, you know, whether things, sometimes students will find internships and say, I want to do this, and if they wanted credit for it. They have to go through us to make a connection with the people, to make sure it's not just a hey? You're going to be slave labor, and it'll be great for you.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: but that there's going to be learning and skills. There's part of it is doing the work, and sometimes that's a little bit of a shock, because sometimes students think, well, I'm going for an internship. I'm going to be assistant manager of the farm or something, and that's far from it. In most cases they're learning and being exposed to all aspects of it.
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Kris Hiney: So maybe because maybe a lot of young people might be thinking, why on earth
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Kris Hiney: would I pay the university to go work for somebody else?
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Kathleen Anderson: On our program. It kind of depends. If they need the credit hours or not. We have an area within our curriculum called experiential learning. And so it they can use X number of hours.
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Kathleen Anderson: of our internship course towards that. So it can be a requirement for their degree. Okay, and there are other programs that internships are absolute requirements for their degree. And so I can't speak for other schools. But if they need 3 credit hours of experiential learning, and they're doing internship for it. They're going to have to pay for those credit hours because they need it needed in that area. So I think that's something for students to understand about how they're using us.
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Kathleen Anderson: Some will do it. Post graduation. A lot of folks, for example, with the Kentucky equine management intern program. I've also had them go to reproductive places down in Oklahoma, and they use it right after they've graduated, because then one they don't have to pay tuition, then 2. Those oftentimes are longer tuition, longer durations. They might be like a full semester, a full spring
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Kathleen Anderson: type thing, because KEMI. Usually there's 2 sessions. One is in the spring, so focus on the breeding season, and it will go from the winter into midsummer, and then the next one, where they focus more on the sales will go from midsummer in through the fall, and so they have a lot of flexibility then, and then they also have opportunities for
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Kathleen Anderson: employment once they're done with those internships. So they have a lot of flexibility. So it depends if they're using it as part of their curriculum. Okay? And the requirements for graduation versus just outside of that. So.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: Yeah. And a lot of those students that go through KEMI actually end up in the industry at least for several years and a lot of times at the same facility that they were actually doing their internship, which is pretty cool.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah. And I know we've talked about KEMI quite a bit. So definitely listeners. If you miss that one, we did a podcast with the program coordinator, Leslie Janika. So I encourage you to listen to that because it's got a lot of details about how the KEMI program works and college students and non-college students that have actually participated and gone to the thoroughbred industry for for like 6 months. So I think that's a great idea. So how about.
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Kris Hiney: Talk about. How do you find an internship? Is it just like you look at the postings that your department sends to you? Or
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Kris Hiney: or do you go like, start calling people randomly.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: Well, I can talk about this like at
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: Washington State years ago there wasn't. You just found some places, or it was word of mouth, or you knew of a place, and you talked to them and then brought it back. University of Vermont. We had a huge internship in the Animal Science Department, Internship Bank, of known internships of all different lengths and all different places. I mean, we had students going
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: in and outside of the country doing these things for a spring break to a whole full year of things, and we actually would have contracts with those internship places, so that there was
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: understanding and documentation that there would be education as well as work, experience, and
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: things like that.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: Arizona, you know there's a little bit of both. We have some connections. But a lot of times the connections come from
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: advisors, and at the university talking to the students and saying, Hey, what do you want to do? What do you think you want to do?
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: And then knowing of people or places to send them to as well?
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: So it's just kind of depends on where you are.
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Kathleen Anderson: Well, I think you know it's kind of what Betty was saying. Some places have very formal internships, and so they will advertise them. I've tried somebody to keep some lists like the KEMI. It's it's very formal that you can advertise it. Different ones will advertise
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Kathleen Anderson: Lazy Ranch Royal Vista. They will advertise internships, internship programs. Sometimes you have a student. They have a passion for, say, reining. I really want to go do an internship with Joe reining horse trainer. So those are more of a 1 on one thing, and those are more where the student kind of finds it, or use a professor who knows somebody in the particular area
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Kathleen Anderson: that want to go do what we're going to call an internship, and those might be structured a little bit different than some of the other ones. So sometimes it's, I really want to go get a taste of doing X, and so let me help you figure out a place that you can go get that experience from. I mean, I get the stuff from KEMI and other ones that I just forward out as they're advertising more formalized internships, and they all can work. Just depends on the student depends on the program.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: Yeah. And but we do, I think. And, Kathy, I think you probably agree when we're working with the students, we know that some internships are not for the faint hearted.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: And so, if it were like, Oh, here, here's an open list, and everyone says, I want to do this. It's like, Well, yeah, you might want to, but you would.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: That would not be a good fit.
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Kathleen Anderson: Yeah, I heard about.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah. And I like, I think this goes both ways, because, you know, sometimes I do want to give a little credit for our students like. Sometimes they find themselves in a situation that
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Kris Hiney: isn't good like, how did have you had to help navigate students in those sort of
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Kris Hiney: uncomfortable place?
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Kathleen Anderson: Yeah, I've had. I've had a couple of situations. One
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Kathleen Anderson: went to a breeding facility, and they have to understand these things can be a lot of work. Okay? And she didn't actually ever start. She sized up the situation. She looked at some stuff
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Kathleen Anderson: kind of figured out what her pay per hour was, which wasn't very good because of the nature of foal, patrol and stuff like that. And so she said, before she ever started, says I'm not going to do that. I had another one that lasted about a week week and a half, and wasn't very happy. And I you know you work with them. You try to make it, but if they're dead set they're not staying. There's only so much you're going to do, because it's not going to turn out good, you know, if they're dead set, it's not going to be for them. So you run into that.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: Yeah. And I had another case. It actually wasn't our student. It was one of my friends from another university had sent someone to a farm in my state, and
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: there was a lot of stuff going on, and drama that had nothing to do with the student whatsoever, and I got a call and said, Hey, can you tell me what's from the faculty member, what's going on with this place? And what should I do? And it was nothing to do with the student. There was farm drama that was. It's like, probably not a bad idea to get her out of there.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: And so we did. But so you know, we all talk about. We know
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: different places, different things that are good, bad, and sometimes get ugly. And so that's another thing that we kind of often bring to the table, even if it's me saying, Hey, Kris, you know this farm in Oklahoma is looking like, Hey, yeah, they've had some great experience with interns, but they better have some skills and some drive and motivation. Or, yeah, they'll put you in the office, whatever. You know. There's all kinds of different environments.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, I think it's good that we network, because I mean, I've had one where the student was expected to entertain the clients like get the h out of there.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: No kidding.
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Kris Hiney: And maybe that's sometimes the benefit of you know, kids doing it on their own versus having, you know, faculty as a touch point to be like, Hey, we can help mentor, mentor, or guide your way through some of these like
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Kris Hiney: not fun, situation.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: And your voice said it, but there were certainly air quotes around. Entertain.
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Kris Hiney: Yes, I did do that.
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Kris Hiney: Oh, you know life.
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Kris Hiney: So what else? Any other kind of final thoughts or things that we've missed with. You know, college students or parents, you know. It's probably more likely parents whose kids are interested in internships. What advice you would you? I don't want to scare them all right after that last thing I just said.
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Kathleen Anderson: Oh, I know I mean they can be great, tremendous experiences like Betsy had mentioned. I have several that went and did an internship, and they stayed either in the area, the industry because it really fit it really worked. Just the only thing is just do your homework, and I think visiting with previous interns is a really good chance. Really good way for you to kind of know. Find out, you know, and answer some of those straightforward questions to them about what it was like, and all different kinds of things. And so, you know, and then the sky's the limit.
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Kathleen Anderson: Use it to go somewhere and do something that you never dreamed that you would. And who knows where it might go? You know I've had some kids like not so sure they wanted to do the chemmy thing, and they went there, and they've been there for 10 years, you know, so I don't want to do thoroughbreds. Well, falling out mirrors is full and out marriage, and you can learn a ton. So yeah, use it as an opportunity to explore and do something and go somewhere. You never thought that you would.
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Kathleen Anderson: Different subject, different case. My son did a internship with the Florida panthers, hockey team in South Florida for 3 months when he was in college, never dreamed he'd do it, never dreamed that. But it was a tremendous experience, and he doesn't regret. He learned he didn't want to live in South Florida, but he liked what he did. So you know, I mean, that's a different area. But it's the same concept. It's the same idea. So yeah.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, you get clues like that, like, oh, I don't like hurricanes, so maybe not.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: Yeah. Yeah. Well, so then you can come to Arizona and have bitey, sticky, pointy things.
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Kris Hiney: I'm not going there either.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: I know. But so the other thing I think, that students sometimes learn the hard way is that you actually get out of it what you put into it. And there's been a lot of cases, for example, KEMI, we keep talking about Kimmy, but in that case there's 5 or so interns at any given farm. And I've had students that have gotten so much experience.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: But then I've also had students saying, Well, so and so is getting all these opportunities and chances, and it's like, Well, are you stepping up and raising your hand? Are you going to the midnight foalings? And you know, as Kathy had said, some of the experiences you have. Well, okay, you can go to a full a place and do an internship and watch one or 2 foalings, or you can go to, you know, with
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: whatever breed you're interested in, or you can go work with thoroughbreds and see 300 foalings in a semester, because it's a huge farm, and then take that knowledge back to whatever it is that you want to do. You don't have to go into those areas. But you can learn incredible things
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: from the different breeds, disciplines, everything else. So I think. But remembering that you get out of it what you put into it as well.
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Kris Hiney: Anything else. Gang.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: I can't think I mean there's
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: more, but always good.
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Kris Hiney: Prospective college students or.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: Yeah, go go work with your advisors and your professors, and
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: and show up and be active and engaged because you get more opportunities that way, too. Oh, I guess the other thing is, a lot of students have done internships on campus like if they think they're potentially interested in research.
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: You know, there are opportunities. And you may obviously you're going to be washing lab dishes. But you also, if you're stepping up and engaged, you can also get involved. And so I've had a lot of students that ended up being on publications and papers, or or going on to do a master's at that
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betsygreene@arizona.edu: lab after the fact.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, no, those can be great opportunities for kids to seize hold of. So
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Kris Hiney: all right. Well, I think you guys kind of hit the highlights that are super important for kids to think about. Definitely do your research talk to faculty because they're going to kind of have the insider edition oftentimes on some of these folks, and I've known students that have had previous experiences that can be invaluable resources in that, and certainly a great way to decide if this is the career path that I want, or if maybe something else fits, my
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Kris Hiney: my skill. Set and lifestyle requests a little bit closer.
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Kris Hiney: alright gang. With that I think we'll wrap it up. And that has been another edition of our Tack box talk horse stories with a purpose.