Photographer Won't Niche Down | In The Comments

In this episode of In The Comments, James meets Cristina, a photography solopreneur. We dive into the art of niching down, overcoming creative doubts, and pushing past perfectionism. From social media strategies to embracing discomfort, we challenge each other to take bold steps—like cold-emailing every agency in sight. If you’ve ever felt stuck or second-guessed your content, this one’s for you!

If you would like to appear on the show, you can fill in our application form here: https://demo.rupert.digital/podcastapplication

Cristina's links:
https://www.instagram.com/cs.visualstorytelling/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/102795771/
Website

Transcript

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You do a lot. I think you should niche it down a little bit. If you do, if to everyone you want to have a base of mushroom. One thing I know I can't. I wouldn't advise this to any of my clients, but for me it's different. I totally agree about what you just said. For me, it's the other way around. Have you tried them on just talk in the camera? No, I do practice what I preach and I hate it. I literally don't know. Depends on the day. Yeah, I think you're missing a trick. But then I changed my mind. And I don't like that post anymore. I want to push it further. I feel like I want to be in control somehow. You're a control freak. I wouldn't give a hoot. I'm trying to be more like you, though. Some of the things I could say to you today you won't do. Like what? Emailing every single agency I know within 20 miles of you. And telling them how good you are. You should be want to do it. I agree and I agree. There you go. This is actually a sign I need to do it. I know they'll be agency owners in Derby who need you. It's a good idea. I should do that. Christina. Welcome to in the comments. Hi. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. So we always start with, who are you, what your business is, and why you're here. Okay. So, Christina, it's my name. I'm here because I saw your post, and I thought it's very interesting. So great opportunity. Why not apply? Thank you for choosing me, by the way. What I'm doing. So at the moment, social media content creation and from photography workshops and masterclasses for business and personal brands. In a few words. But we can expand on that later. I guess we can. So. So you're. When I was when your application form. I and actually, when you were saying that about you do social media workshops and, and we'll go onto your social a little bit later. But as physically, your Instagram is stunning. I think you it's very, very good, isn't it? You know your website, it's cool. It's very, very good. So but when you look at one of your objectives was, to get to a certain amount of followers on LinkedIn because that was one of your objectives. Now my question would be is, why do you think LinkedIn is your primary platform to. I'm assuming, and we'll go on to objectives to win business. Is that why you're on LinkedIn? Yes. So first of all, what you said. But that's tied with brand awareness because in general, my target audience, it's on LinkedIn. I'm aiming at businesses and personal brands, although some of them are on TikTok and Instagram and stuff like that. Of course, I feel like people are scrolling there more in their free time, not really looking for business. You might have a few accounts that you are following for the purpose of, I don't know, different information stuff that might help you in your business. But I feel like LinkedIn, it's more the platform for that. And because I'm just one person team. It was easier to focus on LinkedIn only and keep my Instagram as, let's say sort of a personal diary. Sharing more of the photos I like are more creative, but don't necessarily have any connection to businesses. Yeah, LinkedIn is and for what you do is perfect. You know, you see where your audience is. I think one of the challenges I know, again, when I was looking at your application form and then looking at your your accounts is, is what do you do? Is that niching down? I know you sort of put this in here, but I got an I. When you're a solopreneur, which is what you are. It's. And you're a small team. It's really hard. And we had a guest on just a minute ago there. A five man team, a recruitment firm, and they're on tick tock. They're on Instagram. No face. But they're on all of their in the dream. But they come keep up with them all. And what they're doing is five people. Yeah okay. They can't I can't with one. You can't miss one. It's it's absolute. It is impossible. It's really, really hard. And something that you know, my advice and this is for big and small brands is you've only got so many hours in a day. Where can you get your best bang for your buck when it comes to time? And I think with yourself is LinkedIn is your it should be your focus in terms of lead generation, which I know you put brand awareness in terms of your objective. I would like you to look at it more from a lead generation perspective in terms of sales, brand awareness is brilliant, but actually when it comes to putting food on the table, whatever line of work we're in, it needs to be a sale or a lead generation company. We need to get people in to the door to at least have that conversation. So I think actually, I think something I would love you take away today is, is looking at like how I'm doing all this stuff, which is amazing brand awareness and actually something you put one thing like, in here, which I was amazed at, which is what we spoke about bend with earlier, is changing your mindset to, okay, we're doing all this brand awareness, but am I actually generating any revenue? Because if we're not, is there any point? Yeah. And that's why I really that's everything I look at is always commercially. Yeah. Especially when you're spending time because time is money on the rest of it. So you're looking at LinkedIn, which is fine at the moment. How are you finding LinkedIn and how are you structuring your posts on LinkedIn at the moment? I'm still in that phase of testing, mainly in terms of visuals and then seeing what sort of, copy works. Weirdly enough, I know people are all banging on about videos being pushed well to a lot of audiences. And so for me, that's the lowest reach. Probably because I started with visuals. So people are expecting more from that or LinkedIn as a platform is expecting more from that. But I'm still testing a few, like carousels and PDFs and then, videos as well. Short videos, sort of like reels. So, yeah, you know, I'm still in the testing, phase in terms of that. However, I know the content I'm posting is a lot of tips and tricks because I'm aware. Well, let's say so, I focused on film photography for a reason, because I know a lot of small businesses can't really, like, don't have the budget at the moment, at least to invest or think. That's not something they want to do at the beginning. It's not important. They're focused more on getting leads through ads or some other way. So, knowing that what they can do with their phones, I think it's quite beneficial for small businesses. And then bigger businesses who want their employees to generate content for them. I know it's a trend. More and more businesses are, jumping on this trend. So, yeah, it's sort of like my content needs to help this type of yeah, person, first of all. Then I have my shouting about what I've done. I know I don't really like that, but funny enough, that's the one that has the most reach. Yeah. And engagement. And it feels weird sometimes. But yeah, that's another content. And, I'm trying to implement storytelling and copywriting as well because I'm doing visual storytelling. I know that works. I'm doing it in my blogs all over the website, so I'm implementing that into the, LinkedIn content with the tips included as well. I totally agree with everything you just said. Totally great. It's weird that you put like, I put a lot video out and some are fine, some get zero traction or so zero and I sit there and go, Why is this? It was interesting that you were already doing PDFs, because when I normally see people do carousels on on LinkedIn, carousels don't get pushed out as far than PDFs. But then you look at some data, it does. But I've seen on the majority accounts that I know of, PDFs are being pushed out further. So the fact you're already doing that for me is the other way around. Okay. So this is the most pushed product you've tested recently because I saw that on your PDFs. Yeah. So it goes videos, PDFs and then carousels for single images. Single images are great. But when you're doing your tips because of the carousel of 4K, that's great actually, because we've, I, I'm doing a lot of carousels and I'm just not getting any reach. I've moved it to PDFs and seen it spike completely. But this is the thing with LinkedIn and all platforms is that it's not one size fits all. Whereas again, you're saying, well, I would say reviewers is that I would, look at more in terms of the content in terms of sort of speaking audience more. So your personal brand was amazing. And I would continue to do that because clearly we know what LinkedIn does. LinkedIn loves it, and it will push out further and further and further annoyingly. But it does when it comes to your other type of content, you mentioned the phone using your mobile phone. Now, I used to bang on the drum about this. To all my clients. No one has any excuses anymore because you've got a phone like everyone has a phone with really, really good cameras. Everyone can be using them, whether it be employees or business owners, whomever. When I look to your LinkedIn and when you spoke at the beginning in terms of what you do, you do a lot. I think you should niche it down a little bit. A little bit, yeah. And how lately. Okay. So I'm still having like the pillars of, from photography, visual storytelling in general and personal stories. I'm just keeping these three. Although phone photography includes the same vision. Yeah. As well. Yeah, because I would have a bullet hole in. So if you think of it from a sales perspective. So if you do, if it's everyone, you will never be sort of master of one thing. It's always the way, but if you could be the, the mobile phone genius or legend or some hero, you know, in terms of data, once you're in the business and you're doing a workshop with their team, you can then talk about your social media. You can then talk about other stuff you do, but it's that bullet hole into the business. And obviously it's always typically the lowest item priced item in, in your, in your, in your arsenal. So it might be that, you know, a workshop is, is your lowest priced item or free guide. Maybe that's your bullet hole into the business and then you then then you open up the rest of your, your skill set and your, and and yeah, all the rest you do. And then you've got a client that's not spending £200, they're spending a grand or 3000 or 4000. So I would definitely look at that, when it came to. Yeah. Yours. Because that's when I was looking at your objectives. Obviously you said about the brand awareness, I've been at the two objectives. So you should be looking at LinkedIn is getting the right ICP. So in terms of your audience, are you looking at business owners? Because I've seen you do the personal brand stuff. Is it business owners, is it marketing managers? Is social media managers or is it all free? Well, it's kind of all three ages because depends who the business, is using for that area, you know, so like it's, it's a bigger business. Of course they have like a marketing director if it's just one person team, as I am like a small personal brand, it will just be directly the founder. So it's the person who does the marketing. Yeah. I would go to the founders for you. Yeah. I think you nail a person, I, I think if you if you niche down to one, like, for example, like the mobile phone is one that I don't think enough people have, have still mastered. And everyone's got one. There's no like everyone's got a phone and can produce content, especially video content, which is and I bang the drum about all the time. And so few people still do it, but they've got no excuse. It's that weird feeling of being in front of the camera, right? I mean, I'm still feeling weird now as we speak. I like being behind the camera. Yeah, yeah. But I completely agree. That's why I created the workshops and everything. And although they're, like, focus on photography, the tricks can be applied to video is just going into another side of the camera and pressing a different button in a way. Yeah. But what I'm trying to tell them, it's how to like, structure the composition and stuff like that and how to make it look more unique, stand out from the crowd. That's all I'm, about, really. But yeah, I agree now depends on the platform and the profile. As I said, for me, videos don't work. So, if I if they could though, I think they could longer term, I think you might do more if you did more of them. And the ones, the only ones that we saw were your, the podcast interviews. I didn't see Anna. Quite me. I don't know, you might have done. I've just missed them. But have you just maybe. I think I posted them after we discussed. Okay, probably. That's why they are more creative. I think they're more Instagram sprout. Sort of. So probably that's why. However, the reach it's not even close to the have you tried them on just talk in the camera. No, no, I'll use the podcast ones because I have a lot to go through from the, on the podcast as well. But just me doing that, I feel like it's easier for me in writing. For some people might be easier to like instead of watch. I know I can add captions, but might be easier to read the caption like the copy of the post. I mean, so, I think I'll stick to text for a while. So, obviously everyone's gonna feel comfortable. Yeah. And, you know, even when I look at some of my old clients, there's some were would never get behind come. Like, not in a million years. I would never do it. I have no interest in doing it. Even though they've been amazing at it. They still want to do it. And as I said to them, and I'll say to you, is that although, you know, and to be fair, I wasn't overly keen in the day before yesterday, people now absorb short form content, you know, look at Instagram, look at TikTok. You know, that it's just been pushed entirely. And I think you'd be really good on camera. So I so you should longer term try it. Do you do these videos just yourself talking to the camera because this is different what we do now. Yeah. No go for this. Yeah. Yeah. Just okay. Yeah I, we we we we do it. And I thought I'll catch you. No no no I, I'm, I literally practice what I preach whatever I tell a client today. So we've got a take. We've got a few TikTok channels. And I always say to my clients like, even if, if they create a load of content, just create a TikTok channel and just repurpose that content for that. Yeah, because if someone sees it, you're omnipresent, which is great if you've got the content. So we create what we don't get my views on it, but all clients are like, okay, you're doing I'm not. Yeah, I can't tell you to do. And I may not do it myself, so I do I am, I do practice what I preach and I hate it because when I was day one, on the way to here today on the, just in the park, just like talking a lot like Burke. It's weird to watch it back, isn't it? Yeah, I would be so, like, critique myself for that, probably. And then do another. But I've got another taken, another tick. Just. Hey, Chrissy, let's do it. Yeah. All he does is critique me all day. It's rubbish that you pick up on the way you talk as well. If you always have a the phrase that you say, you realize, oh my God, I say that all the time. Oh yes. I noticed that with my my videos at some, I can't remember where. Anyway, yeah, I noticed at some point I was like, oh, I saw that a million times. Like. But yeah, they should definitely try it. Try like, I know the blogs are saying what you could do is cool. I'm just trying to think in terms of I'll always think of this as acquisition, so how can I get more customers? So I've got a reach that that's what I'm trying to get you here as more customers. Yes, I think you could. I think you could play on that. You don't like it on camera, not play on it. Just be honest and just do a post on LinkedIn saying I wrote that. I've written this post because I wanted to get on camera, but realized I just can't do and then send people to your blog. And that's a way then to get them into your blog. Yeah, potentially. So. But be, you know, really sort of candid and honest about, you know, you don't like getting on cameras, reliable as well, putting it is relatable. Yeah. I think I only said it when I posted the podcast just because, well, it made sense. But with what I preach, I mean, photography, I tend to show my photography and that seems to get the more engagement. Anyway, I know I can like, edit videos and show the photos in the videos, but they'll take more time on my side as well. I'm not ruling it out. Of course. Yeah. Times the problem. This is the issue when I was looking at your application form, you mentioned around you don't have enough time. And you want to, but you don't want it to become a chore. Yeah. So what did you mean by that? I mean, I'm still having fun with posting on my social media, and I want you to keep that way because, well, if one of the skills of mine that it's like the top one, it's the, of course, creativity. So I'm using that. Well, I'm creating my content more than when creating content for clients. Just because I have more freedom, it's more my style. That's why on Instagram I'm keeping everything as I want. I just that's why it was hard to niche down as well. We did because we saw some really nice on your website. You've got some really good product imagery. Yeah. And it's beautiful, isn't it? Like, it's so nice. And I said to Michael, who, you know, you can niche down to just in product imagery, I know I can't, I can't just pick one. I know it's I wouldn't advise this to any of my clients. It's so weird. But for me it's different because I'm like, well, I like the that's very much. But pick like if I have to pick from two, I literally don't know. Depends on the day, depends on how I feel. But I still like both of them the same way. Like let's say between an event and a product shoot. They're so different. I like them the same. The product, the product likes the product. So if like different accounts, I know. But that's even more work. I know on Instagram it works really well. But like after ten posts I was like, I can't keep off my well, that's the problem is time, isn't it? It's like, you know, there's so much time. How do you sell? So you got the product commission yourself, which is amazing. Personal brand. I'm assuming that's photography of people just owners doing about their day to day business. How do you at the moment find customers? How do you do that at the moment? Well, it's social media, okay. Word of mouth. And sometimes I reach out to them. I've done that more at the beginning. Yeah. I think the word of mouth, it's the most, the one that works the the best. And like, going to networking events and, like, building that relationship first and then seeing if they need me, they'll just reach out. I don't really need to have that selling, attitude, which I don't really like. So. Yeah. Have you ever worked to work direct with the brands or do you sometimes work with agencies? It's just the brands. I tried with an agency, so they would get customers for, like, ads and stuff like that. But the customers don't have the visuals. They don't the visuals. So I would produce that for them. I think some of your product imagery, I think you're missing a trick with agency. So I would like, for example, my agency, I used to outsource a lot of different work. It may have been, like video X Luke, a lot of them Y for less for a video. You know, he's like a quite, videographer. He's got, you know, not the stuff Mike and I do, but, you know, proper shoots for clients. I would outsource all that because I needed the right stuff for that online. I didn't touch it, but he wouldn't have to do anything. He used to turn up. I used to pay him a lot of money for. And I used to go on his way. I think for some of your product imagery, I think you should be, you could be reaching out to marketing agencies who have an e-commerce focus and on say, look, here's what I some of my portfolio for e-commerce brands with they see the products when you're, you know, when you're in market, you know, or you've got a time of need some I'd love the opportunity. I think you'll you'd be shocked to how much work you get from that. You'd be totally shocked. There's so many agencies out there, especially with the rise of e-commerce. I think you're you'd absolutely even if you got ten jobs a year, you know, but, you know, you did a big product shoot. You know, they're not cheap aren't they? Product shoots. You'd be I think you'd be pleasantly surprised, you know, even just locally, you know, there'll be loads of agencies and maybe just reach out, you know, quick message on LinkedIn, maybe, and just say, you know, this is some ideas of what I've done. You know, if you've got any clients that are looking for this next year or this year, would you know, I'd love to to to, you know, at least quote for it, I think you'd be pleasantly surprised. Yeah, definitely. That's a good idea. As I said, I was doing Godrich, quite a bit at the beginning, but then I just thought I'll focus on the personal branding more, because I don't really want to use the business necessarily as a name and everything. I started using that actually at the beginning, and I was like, I don't really feel like it's me necessarily. But like, I'm just resharing from the business account, basically. Yeah, business accounts, a lot of which it's like sharing the same post on a business account and a personal profile. You would be surprised how well it would perform on the personal one. And to be honest, there's no, surprise. I mean, do you buy it from the person or the company in general if you just for them. Silence. I, yeah, especially for what you do, you know, it's so visual. You know, you you know, you start a look at unique. He, you know, his his brand is although he's got a cool brand. You know, it's all about Luke, you know, Luke. And behind the behind the camera, you know, that's where everybody comes from. Scheduling tools. I'm really intrigued by this. So on your application, you said that you use these and for clients or you've used them in the past. Yeah. But you don't use them for you. Yes. But you, you you kind of got time to, to always post. So my question is why don't you like them. I might change my mind. So if I scheduled something, and then something else happened. Meanwhile, it's a whole other job to go there, reschedule, create a new one and stuff like that. So I tend to do like reactive posting usually. So if an idea comes to me, and it matches with sort of like my schedule of posting, I create that with a night before, for example, or even during that day. And then I post, I'm trying to post sort of at the same time usually. But yeah, I prefer to do that myself and I spend a bit of time with like, I don't know, not necessarily engaging with content, as you know, some people say it's this is what you have to do and stuff like that to grow in, but I just do it because I like, because, my network, most of the people are there. I know them, at least the ones are coming up on my head. So I'm interested in what they say. I'm interested to learn from them. So it's a good way to have that linked in time of like, literally authentic engagement. And post my content at the same time. I tried with scheduling, but yeah, I, I don't know, it wasn't much of a difference. I would say, in terms of saving time necessarily. Okay. Yeah, I, I love scheduling tools, although the platforms don't like them. And I know that because the data behind them, I if you're struggling to post like on your side, you sometimes struggle. And in terms of time, if you are struggling, my recommendation would be to at least have one, even if it's just one a week. Know if you were really struggling for time. But it's the time of creating the content. Not necessarily, but you could bulk, you could do like two weeks in advance. SEO is ahead. But then I change my mind and I don't like that post anymore. I want to push it further. So I want you want anyway. So I'm spending that time anyway. Do you? I know you forget what it is. I don't know off this of the guys online. Yeah, I don't really, I feel like I want to be in control somehow. You're a control freak. That's why. That's why I probably. That's one reason. But, Yeah, I tried. I know what you mean. With, the platform not really liking it, I noticed, the reach was lower. Yeah. It's not a huge. It's not a huge amount. So at LinkedIn. Yeah. LinkedIn, LinkedIn. You can schedule now with an app, which helps. I know I struggle to find it, I schedule it and I was like, where can I find it if I want to edit it, obviously. So I can't remember. If I like I'll go to. So we'll actually go for your we'll link. So what we always do we review your LinkedIn. So let's just go for your LinkedIn. I'm if you go on Christina's actual page, just, profile place. So we look so bluish here. Yeah. So we are from screen to screen now. Yeah. I think my forever problem with editing photos. And then I'm seeing it on my phone or my tablet, I'm like, it's completely different from what I had in mind. But yeah. Okay. So your LinkedIn profile yes is very, very good. I think you it's a shame that you've got while the last guy we had on didn't have a banner, it was empty. Your photo is very good. Yeah, it's very good friends. What you do in the banner. Yes. Thank you. It took me a few tries to get to that one again, making up my mind. That didn't. It took a while. That was good. It's just kind of like that was really good. So if you scroll down, Scott down, Scott, ask Adam Scott. So you're posting a bit, which is good. Scroll down Scott on this there. Again you've got your skill sets there, which is great. All of this is fine. So actually in terms of your profile is absolutely perfect is how it should be, which is great. Now, something you mention if you go up, Michael, to the, there you go. Just sit on the post. Some stuff that so you when you're scrolling through LinkedIn every day, like we all do. And I know you mentioned a second ago about people saying about commenting and stuff, so I've grown grown my LinkedIn from 2000 to just over 10,000 in less than a year. And the vast majority of that is down to me commenting on other people's posts. And I thought it was nonsense. I didn't believe it. Okay, no, I, I agree, it's amazing. Yeah. Like it's weirdly like I said tomorrow. So I hit 10,000 last week. I've already had like 200 since then of people asking to follow even I've had of features. I'm like, how is this coming off now? I'll be quite candid here. I've got someone doing it for me. Okay, so she'll post your comment as if it's me. Yeah, which is fine. But still, if you're on LinkedIn and you're scrolling anyway, just commenting 4 or 5 words. Oh, this looks amazing. Whatever it did, you'll say so much more in traction because the algorithm is going to pick that up more. So even though you're not posting as much, what you could do if you're really struggling for time is post less but engage more. Yeah. I completely agree. I'm just trying to write something meaningful if I can. Sometimes it's just this is great. Like literally nothing else comes up. It's fine just because I'm like, literally feeling that, and have no comments. And, yeah, I'm doing that. There are a lot of great posts actually, online, and I feel like if you comment more, then more of like similar posts from other people will come up. So you have even more to engage with and so on. So yeah, that's definitely one of the strategies, I think your book, I can tell that you're such an artistic person because why? Because this is the me and Michael is to pay a lot. So Michael wants everything to perfect. Exactly. Yeah. So yeah, it's like quite precious of Michael's very precious about like certain things I understand, you know, and I'm like, just as fine. Just get it out. The more the better. You're Michael like you are, Michael. My mom. It's schools little sort of like Michael Wayne Romanian. The female version. So like very. So you don't want to like, if you were going to make a comment, you'd make sure it was articulate. It was, oh yes. Like you'd be all over that. I wouldn't give a hoot like Top Man to. Yeah. All that stuff like you. You're trying to be more like you, though. But yeah. No, it's not me. It feels weird sometimes. So I. The triangle balance. Actually, the heart failure. LinkedIn and not sure we're very LinkedIn centric. The last two episodes is it's a different world LinkedIn. It's a different planet to the real world. LinkedIn. It's on a different level altogether. Yes. I think I know what you mean, but it is it's nerves because your persona on LinkedIn is different to your real. Like I on LinkedIn, I'm not totally different because I'm quite like, just so I'll say as it is, but like some of the nonsense you see on LinkedIn is not the real person, but it goes really well. Okay. Yeah, I know I actually heard recently that people are like faking posts and how much they made their like screenshotting conversation with their friends that they asked to. Yeah, I, I wasn't aware of that. I was so shocked when I saw those post. Like saying I was like, really? And now I'm wondering. I feel like I'm the only one that's just being not well. I think the vast majority people think like you do because you're a nice person and like, you like, no, but it's true. They're playing the game. The problem is they're playing this game and it's so bad. But it's working, though I feel like it's working for engagement. It's not working for sales. And this is why I get very frustrated, because it's like we're looking at these people. They've got loads of engagement. Yeah, they're getting no sales from it. I heard about community of like engagement engagement pods. Yes. It's like is this a real thing? I knew about these on Instagram, but yeah. So you put it in there and everyone likes it. It's pointless. It doesn't help the algorithm. It's not. It's not engaging you at all. Yeah, well it's not engaged in the right audience. Yeah. So this is why, you know, when I looked at, like when I was looking at your application form, it's like you've got on, like your products. Incredible. Yeah. The stuff you do is amazing. It's like your Instagram is stunning, right. Pull up Christine's Instagram. But this is about like this is my like look how cool this is. I would actually want to edit every photo differently. But I'm just trying to have a style. Don't edit it. It looks really good, right? You're fine. You're more than fine. This is incredible. But this is really, really good stuff. Oh, this is amazing. Now that's real. Yeah, you're really behind that. The stuff we see on LinkedIn is all fabricated. It's all just. It's just noise. Like it's utter madness. But no, these pods and all this stuff that goes on it absolute mad. But this is stunning. If someone wants a photographer, photographer, send them to this and go look at my stuff and they'll book you. I think you they'll book you straight away. Did you do all this on a phone? No, not all of them, though. Can you. How what how many did you do on a phone? So the one in the middle with the volcanoes. This one? Yeah, that's with the phone. It's like the mountains around it. Like all of them at the beginning. So, like the one with the building as well. In the middle? Yeah. Thus easier to capture with the phone, actually, than with the camera. Believe it or not, because of the lens you are using. Okay. There you go. Right. So yes. So I started only sharing my phone shots at the beginning was cool CSS mobile shots. Instagram doesn't really like me because I changed it so many times from, title, name description to what I'm posting. So yeah, I just post when I want the engagement. So great. So that's actually proving on Instagram. On Instagram. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Your Instagram's very good. Thank you. It's very, very good. Well, I was quite shocked when I saw it now because it's nice like we see some people on it's pumps now. We had a guy, the last guy that was on his TikTok told him to shut it off from the later just today, honestly. So. But I it was awful. Just stop. Stop. I need to wash that podcast. His pants. It was so bad. It was so, so, so this stuff is amazing. This is your case today? Yeah. This is this is. You should be sending people to this. Okay, if anyone's got an inquiry, send them and show them what you're doing, because this is really, really good. And especially if you're if you're selling the mobile phone, which I think you should really look at as a, as a, as a real big opportunity there, which is no one wants a photographer because they're too expensive. Actually. Let me show you how you can use your phone. I still didn't launch it like property. Only in the masterclass. I'm doing workshops as I'm literally going in the office and it's bespoke for every company need. But the masterclass, it kind of covers everything for anyone like you. It's how much is the masterclass in terms of money? We're, I'm not really sure yet. Just because I'm doing lifetime access and three monthly sessions included a feedback. Okay. So I think it will be just over 100. Oh, okay. That's. Yeah, that's really the low ticket. Yeah. Yeah. That's like so. Yeah. So so cheap. But that's covering everything for everyone. Okay. Yeah. You could get like there's so many like, the, so many people that need good photography. Like, but every brand, every business in the UK needs better visuals. Yeah. You know, when someone goes to an event and basically they snap a few shots, but they're all like, selfies are like this or. Yeah, or their camera. And I can't stress this enough when they don't wipe the camera and it's all blurry. And then you go home and you watch them. Where are the colors? Like, my camera is back. No, it's not clean. And you see a massive difference. But yeah, that's a very weird. That's a techie trick. There you go. There's your trick. You know, I posted about this as well. Yeah, I'm posting about all of them. It's basically either you want to scroll through my field and spend how much time you want, figuring it out and putting it all on a paper document and then using it or getting the masterclass and you have them all in one place with just like, I don't know, around an hour video, but you have worksheets and stuff like that as well. Where are you hosting that? Stands for? Okay. Okay. If you heard of something called School Skool, put on their crib sheet. Michael. The. So it's where obviously Facebook groups were huge, weren't they? You know, a lot of people are they're still they still are. A lot of people are moving away from, Facebook groups because you're not able to do, you know, you can't do certain things on there, like host certain like classes and obviously documentation on there. So, something called school, which is, something Alex Hermosa and Marikina, you know him? If you saw his face, he created school is where you can build your communities within there. And when I was reading free application form, I thought there's a real need there for a community of, like, a business owners or social media managers and marketing managers who are just using their phone to create content, you know, give and share hints and tips on that. This is the best thing to do with, you know, all that stuff, but you know you're giving them weekly. You might jump onto a live once a week with, really build that community around. Can you also like post your videos lessons or it's hosted on there? Okay. It's really, really good. But even if you want to use school, I still think something you should look at building as a community you're really passionate about what you do. And some of the things that I could say to you today, you won't do because it's so against you at all. Like, I think you should be emailing every single and messaging every single agency I know within 20 miles of you and telling them how good you are. You should be one. Wonderful. I agree, and I agree there. Yeah, that that that that's like that's the best because like I know there'll be agency owners in Derby who need you. Yes probably. Yeah. 100% though I had it on my to do list for ages and it's still there. It's still there. Yeah. But that's going to this is actually a sign I need to do it. You should do it because I like I've been that person where I need like a client come to me with a challenge and I think to go and find someone or ask someone, do you know someone? And then they'll pass someone else. And I've had those experiences and sometimes I, we, I'm like, oh, whereas with your stuff again, you've got, you know, that product, like I said, product imagery was like, they're really, really good. So I definitely think that something you should do, although you probably won't, which is absolutely fine. And to me, I have to make a promise or something. You don't. It's just, you know, it's going to help you, you know that. Yeah. Even, it's, you know, a lot of the stuff that actually gets results is the stuff that no one's doing. Like, I sell Coco. I still call course this day. It's madness. Very few people do it now. And most people will never coco no more. Not many people could sit down and make 100 phone calls to people they've never spoke to before because I go, whoa, and it works. But it's the stuff that people aren't doing. Very few people are doing it. What's the percentage? It depends what day it is. If I could get, say I'll always look at it commercially. So if I could get, let's say out of those hundred calls, I could get ten demos and four of those or five of those become a super subscriber. That's 5 million in revenue a month by five. Time's up by twice a year. That's six grand. If that one day call like. Yeah. So you spend like a whole day just calling basically. Yeah. Just 1 or 2 of a no go. I know you know but it but it but it works. But you could, you know, maybe you could do some snail mail so you could, you know, send it in a post, maybe, you know, I can do a bit of a template on camera or Adobe, you know, show them some of the product, what you've done, and go and go on a note to mail it to the printer, have some photos. And I'm actually planning to do like a poster in a few places. For the masterclass, a photo. How cool would that be? Like an actual photo? Yeah, we'll be like a photo book with text on it. Even though, like an actual photo today was a send in a post them and say look, this is what I do. Like an actual photo. That's a really cool idea. Throw it in the back of it. Just like in the back of that. My, business card. It's a photo, actually. Okay. So, yeah, I it's a good idea. I, I should do that. You should see that. So some of the questions that, I wanted to ask you and I loved one of your responses to one of them. Literally loved it. So when you looked at what you. So when you when online, one of the questions is I ask what you measure when you look at social. And it was reach and engagement. And also sometimes they are a bit of a, a red herring because sometimes you might get five Jabbar eyeballs to see your content, but no one engaged with that. Yeah. Now, most people would say that that has failed. On the other hand, we've got we've had 500 people that LinkedIn or whichever social platform you're using has put in front of because it's going to engage them, which is great. You then put on your application for that. You went to an event and someone you'd never spoke to before, or you tell the story. I knew her like I knew her. Yeah, from previous events. But yeah, she she told me she saw my posts and she really likes them. And I realized when I got back home I think I ever saw her engage with anything. And that was true. But, yeah, that reach means something without the engagement. I know engagement is great. And I'm all reaching for it, of course. But, yeah, it's there are lots of people who just scroll but don't really engage. It might be, I don't know, they have a, job role that doesn't necessarily allow them to put themselves out there, like that. So, or any other reason really. But it's still in front of their eyes. I loved it because I, I'm a, I call them lurkers that lurk because they lurk in the background. They absorb your content, but they would never engage with it. And I've got so many of them, like, I'll go to events I you have and someone like, oh, like, I like I do a lot of reading and if I finish a race, I'll put it on LinkedIn because it's because I'm playing the game, basically. Achievements. Well, yeah. You know, all that stuff. But the amount of events I've been to and people have gone out when. Well, how did you get on the amount of people. So. And none of them engage about none of them of at all. But it's amazing that actually what we say or what we've perceived to success is a lot further than that. And we don't see half the stuff that goes on. And again, that's a really like that there. I was like, yes, yes, you've seen it firsthand. Yeah. Which is amazing. Yeah. And I've heard people talking about it previously. Boom. And it happened to me. I was like, yeah, it's true, it is true. Which is why. But because you're such a artistic, you know, you're, you know, you love the stuff you do. You I would probably say you could do more, but you don't want to because you don't affect the quality. But anybody else wouldn't see a difference in quality. I know I wouldn't, but you probably know it's still in the back of your mind, like try and get out of your own way. Are you better at it now? Yeah, yeah, because I feel myself now and just chat and stuff like that. So it's just you have to just try and be like, I get it though, because it's like you look at the Instagram, it's very curated and very like it wouldn't look the same if it was all like, you know, all over the shop. I get it, you have to try and just be less precious about it. Really? Yeah. It's hard. It's very hard. There's, But yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to leave that perfectionism because it's stupid sometimes. And I guess no one will notice that tiny corner that has something in the photo that I noticed and it just scratches my mind. You know? But yeah, yeah, consistency and less perfectionism. Definitely. It's the way you could even post the stuff that you don't think is perfect and write about why you don't think it's perfect and not be, like, relatable to people. Yeah, I wanted to post this photo, but I hate that bit in the song. Love it. One idea. Yeah yeah yeah, that's truly a great idea. And even without writing that, posting it, it's still like testing. Do people actually notice it? And maybe it helps you for your next post, you know. But yeah, definitely. That's a good idea. You could literally do two photos. The one that's good and one's bad. I'll tell you now, I wouldn't you know, those games with like sports reference. Yes. Yeah. Oh my God, that's such a good one. I should have a notebook and just. But we're right of course. Okay. So we. So everyone who comes on gets a crib sheet, which is all the things that you can go and try to. Yeah. And try and do if you want to. But again it's just ideas. But that one's it I think, I think with that particular idea is you'll, it'll move you along a little bit further in terms of actually very few people can say, you'll say and I get like I'm the same. Like there are certain things marketers, you know, I would just not stand for, I want to say very particular like certain like certain colors and stuff, like I will not have it. I will like I would the world will end if it's wrong, so I get it. But when it comes just like content in terms of pushing on LinkedIn, because it goes so quickly and the algorithm, do you know it's it's it's all within a day. You know, it's just it's just the consistency. Yeah. But I understand it because of how you are, what you do. I totally get it. I am absolutely on board of you on that one. I appreciate it. So, social media. So you're due. Obviously you do social media as well. For your clients. What do you do there? Organic. What do you do for those? Yeah, organic. I've done paid as well. Okay. Previously. Not anymore. I feel like I like the organic side more, it's not that. A lot of pressure comes, for. Oh, Is it the rich? Is it the impression the clicks and blah blah, blah, and not everyone understands that's not actually the end goal. Or they don't have patience to see the results. So if it's someone like me, actually, who's like, very perfectionism, but they don't really understand the marketing side, it's much harder to, actually make them understand, if you are set in your own ways, for example, or if you have no like relation to marketing, you are very, I don't know, sales or software focus or you know, it's a completely different industry. So it's hard sometimes to understand the creative side of campaigns and have the patience to see if the strategy actually works or updated if it doesn't work. So on organic, at least the people I worked with, they're very receptive, very open to creative ideas. That's how I say it. They stand out from the crowd. Or, they are really open to just take all of my ideas on board, which is great as well. Are you as a perfectionist on less than you are, as you are yours? Yes. But it's easier to have that second opinion basically, as I would have someone in my team. Hello, I don't really want because it's my personal brand. So, it's easier to have someone to chat with about, how do you think this looks like? Yeah. Is this messaging okay? It's not. I mean, they know better the business. So, I don't mind changing things. I don't necessarily like question changing things while also doing it for me. It's me asking the question is me answering, so where do I stop? You know? Well, yeah. Okay. I think it's easier. It's easier for for me to tell them tuning down as well. It's easier. Everything is easier. Maybe because I started working like that. So like I worked in marketing for different companies for like over seven years. So I'm used to being in a team. I'm used to like bouncing ideas with, the manager or an executive where, you know, whilst just being me. It's, it is hard and like I speak to a lot of agency owners, obviously a lot of my friends because of my previous roles. And it's really interesting that so many marketing agencies are bad at marketing their own agency, like they won't do what they tell their clients. Today. I experienced that firsthand. Then I spoke with other people as well, actually, and they said the same. I was like, haha, at least I'm not the only one. But for a few months it felt very weird. I was like, I'm doing this. And then a week later I'm like, no, I'm doing this and so on. And so she basically it's it's hard. Like I, you know, I to have a few internal battles with some of the stuff the way you got up to Michael and but I used to say to everyone, if we're telling our clients to do this, then we should be doing it as well. But not that is, you know, we cannot stand in a meeting, Oscar. Time for a load of money. And then they go, why are you doing it? And I can't stand there and go, no. Yeah, that's obscene. Like I have to practice what I preach. So like like content. I believe in bulk batching content, especially video content like this, like this won't go out for a couple of weeks now. But it means we're ahead of the game and we do have to stress. So I'm a big believer in things like scheduling tools. Although it does affect it slightly. Not enough to worry. And I, you know, even when it comes to social, it comes to any platform at all. I think too many brands, need to focus less on the vanity stuff. And even if you got two views a month, how much. Yeah. Is that actually giving you revenue or is it bringing in leads or you going to a network event and someone goes, oh, I saw your stuff. That's amazing. And then the next I'm going to see they might have a friend who needs some work or you know, all that because otherwise you just get into a hamster wheel and you're doing it for the sake of it. And then you look in a year's time and go, oh, I need some more work now. Yeah. And then you're in a and you, you know, you know, I'm how do I get work. So it's trying to always bring it back and is not a a part of it. So part time job it it takes a lot of time up. And again so many brands are doing that. So it's just pumping out content for the sake of it with no objective. That's what just going on for the sake of it was yours is like, yeah, this is I'm showing the world what I can do. I think the anything you're missing now is just that second part, which is, okay, well, we're doing that better, which is amazing. How do I just get, you know, how do I get more work? And, I've hit the nation downs. Really important. Yes. Probably once I launch the masterclass, it will be a no brainer. The phone one. Yeah, well, I've actually got a client, but I did have a small agency, and they, they do, they do wedding photography on their phone. On their phone. I saw someone doing that. And basically you have, like, less waiting time. Yeah. But so they just editor so everyone in the crowd or, they have like a QR code and everyone time. Yeah. But everyone takes photos and video, they upload it and then they. Editor. It's amazing. That's something else. But yeah, from whatever it is, that's a good idea. It's absolutely incredible. Like, I couldn't believe when I first spoke to him. And he's got, you know, clients all over the world. So literally that obviously everyone like, will take, you know, cameras and photos and videos of the wedding and then just everyone sends it to this Google Drive. And he adds, his editor up says, no massive photography, bill. No, no, no, that stuff is all of people's phones. Yeah. How cool is that? Yeah. Very cool. And he's yeah, he's earned and he's doing what now last time I spoke to him, nine grand a month. Just from editing. Basically. Yeah. From your own phone call. That's right. Yeah, we'll take that. Yeah. Ted. All day. So I think the phone. I think the phone. I think you've got a nice little gig with the phone. Thank you. Yes. Yeah, I thought there's a gap in the market there. I mean, we all have it in our pocket, and I actually experience that firsthand when, I think I posted about this recently forum about post. Anyway, basically when I got my first camera, I was so excited. Oh, I'll take so great photos everywhere. I'll carry it with me. No I can't, this is it became a chore. Really. It's too big to fit in the bag. I have to carry it on top of that. It's heavy sometimes, and I just found myself grabbing the phone every single time. And that's how it all became with the Instagram and everything. So yeah, it's fine to use it. Phones are made, especially the new iPhones and stuff. And like, you think that the older phone, like the camera from an older phone compared to a new one, it's very big difference, right? I tested an iPhone six with an iPhone eight I think recently because my phone got stolen. So, I used an older phone and I was like, well, this camera is actually good. And the sixth one took better photos. And yeah. Did you do a LinkedIn post about it? Yes. Yeah. I'm not sure if I actually now it was more around Christmas, but I mentioned in the post it's actually those are taken with an iPhone six. So do a post about it. Yeah, yeah I think you did one as well on which of these photos is taken with the phone and which is with a camera. Yes, I suppose post good as well. That's very good. That was a video. So probably I should do that as a carousel or a PDF or something. And if you do that every so often and just so some people can swipe through it. Yeah, yeah. And stuff. I tested basically the video in that post. But also was more as a recap of my year, and I posted that on Instagram as well. But yeah, someone actually messaged me the other day asking which one it was, and I told him I was like, know what? Really? Yeah, but that's engaging, isn't it? So good content. What, do you take all of them with your phone? And then you say, which of these is the phone? And then you put in the description that they will take in my phone, hire me for a phone photographer. So it's because you to a perfectionist, I want you to know what's going on. But no, in terms of your your in terms your socials. Normally we like came people but yours is really good. My the only one of my exception so far. So far you are you are the exception, not the rule. Yeah, yours is all very good. Very very good. I would just say just not. I would just say niche down and start changing some of the content to be focused on getting people into your. Obviously the masterclasses come in. Yeah. Get it getting them into there. And start building. I think if you build a community around social media managers or marketing managers that you are using their phone for content, I think that's very powerful use. Sophia, pretty thing, pretty little marketer. Do you know that? Pretty much. You know, the. Yeah, look at what she's done. I know she didn't like to get behind a camera. She hates it completely. She's done very, very well. First off, if you could ask me like that, maybe not a scale, but in terms of people at one, to use that phone for, for visuals, for marketing, you don't need many. You know, the great for these masterclasses. You don't need loads, you only need a few. And you made a lot of money. You know, you don't need a huge, huge audience. You just need a small amount. So yeah, I would definitely look at look at the stuff they're doing there and not copy, but definitely take some learnings from often. Yeah. For what we've what you're trying to achieve I think there's a lot of similarities there. Yeah. She's actually like I'm following her and she's like one of my mentors, if I could say so for like, the community building. So that's great. That's. So you guys doing it? Yeah. Yeah, I know she's she's very good. I was, I was, I was at an event and I beef with her last year, and she spoke and. Yeah, she was good. She's very nervous. I can understand that. Yeah. Yeah. Like she's. Yeah. I was shocked, actually, because I was about to know, you know, to be a bit more sort of out there, but no, she was Yeah. She. Yes. She's a quiet girl. She's not actually lovely, but. Yeah, she's doing very well. Yeah. Oh, it depends on the crowd and everything. I mean, it doesn't matter how many times you are doing it, at some point you still feel, you know, before the actual. Yeah, you still feel the same emotions and stuff. I know when I, basically I was I'm, I'm not from the UK, as you can tell. No. So like speaking in public and everything came really hard for me. Like in the first three weeks here, I couldn't understand what they were saying in the classroom, the teachers and everything because of the accent. And everyone was coming from like a different part of the UK. I was like, you all speak differently. I really didn't learn this in school, you know? But I just got the job. I didn't really know what it was. And at 7 a.m. I was like, given a PDF, a printed one. Be like, pick a slide. What? So you have to present this in front of the whole school. We were going like, what's called the outreach team. So going out to schools and preaching about the university and how they can apply and stuff like that. So that's how I kind of got okay with I was speaking and everything. If someone said to me do that in a different language, I would not be very clever after a year. So I was okay at that time, okay. But still it felt very weird and like the first few times I've nightmare after a year I'd still be struggling. I'd tie it. I'd be really, really struggling. One last question. Yeah, this is the big question now. Okay. What's the first thing you're going to change after here? Change. Probably reaching out to people more. I think I'll do that. But in terms of actually changing on social media, as I said, I'm planning to niche down specifically on phone photography. Anyway, but I'm still confused of it. I mean, it's still hard for me to niche down. So like phone photography and visual storytelling, visual storytelling can be part of film photography. It can be. But you it's what's going to resonate with the audience more so if you think of psychology. What's more appealing? Like if you said so, for example, I did this if it actually so let's say there's 50 people out there. Yeah. Okay. And I said to all of them, are you interested in visual storytelling? The vast majority would say no. But if you said to them, would you like to know how you could get better pictures with your phone? The vast majority would say yes. True. Very true. Yes. See, that's why I'm keeping the Instagram as it is. Just very I don't know, it doesn't really have a plan, really. I'm not posting at the same time. We're Nord the same day. Just because these photos, I still like to do them. I'm thinking about stock photography on the side because I have so many photos. Honestly, but I couldn't share these on LinkedIn or anywhere else, so it's just a they don't really say anything to my ideal target, customer. Or if they're with your phone, you can. Yeah. They're not. That's why I'm saying, like the ones that I'm doing with my camera, I might, they say, so I wouldn't worry about that, I would. This is just a canvas for you. Yeah. This is this is of a personal portfolio diary, let's call it. So, yeah, this is the LinkedIn. It's definitely going to be kept for, the workshops and masterclasses. This is your canvas. And I, I wouldn't worry too much about that. I just, like I said, if again, if you look at that visual storytelling again, if you just think of a room of ten, the vast majority, which is no. But again, if you said about highlight, I should I could show you how to get better pictures with your phone. Everyone would go, yeah, go on and show us. Yeah, yeah. It's just the psychology, that's all. That's all it is. But then see you nation down. Yes. Although on the website I think I can't, I mean, oh no, your website has got loads of stuff. Yes, it would be. There's three different websites. Where's the website, Michael, if we got rid of it. No. Is. Yeah. I don't know if it's on that, that photo if I'm honest. It's from one event okay. So content creation it's for events as well. It's kind of saying you. Right. So stand out from the crowd. You. Oh. Okay. It although it looks very weirdly cropped here on my screen, you could see the crowd behind him as well. Yeah. So might just be depending on what the screen. Yeah. On phone for example, you can see him on in the center. So it's a completely different aspect. Yes. But I there's a lot going on here. I know you do a lot stuff. You do a lot. What don't you do. Yeah. Trying to remove yourself and think if it wasn't me, what would I do? Harder to do this. Oh, I know what I'm saying. I know exactly, yeah. But thank you for coming on. Thank. Coming all this way. And, And. Yeah, Michael will give you a crib sheet. Yes. Thank you. That's with all the stuff we've gone through. Some other links to look at, some ideas for content, which obviously we've spoken about today. And then you can take that away and hopefully, reach out to all those agency owners in Derby when they need a photographer. Are they going to speak to you? Yes. Of course. Thank you for all the advice. Was really great. Being here, both of you. I appreciate you. The notes and everything. Literally thought I should have had. No, no, we did, And only compliments. That was. Well, and, I'll definitely do a lot of what we will discuss here. Perth. I will come out. Thank you.