Episode 34 - Priya Sarma ABC

Today's guest is a powerhouse executive communication leader with an enviable career. Priya Sarma is the head of corporate affairs and sustainability for Unilever Middle East and Turkey and an influential board advisor who is passionate about ESG.

She made the shift from the world of advertising to marketing and communication and is a current board member of the Advertising Business Group, a non-profit organisation she established in 2016, which advocates for responsible advertising and communication​. Priya was also selected as one of the Top 10 Marketing Game Changers in 2020 by Campaign Magazine.

In this episode, we talk about the value of learning and development and the power of gaining certification to position your communication career. We also talk candidly about the middle eastern market, more specifically about the United Arab Emirates and her rise to senior ranks as an executive leader. 

Transcript

[Adrian Cropley]

Hello, and welcome to another episode of A View From the Top. I'm Adrian Cropley. A View From the Top is a regular podcast from the Center for Strategic Communication Excellence, where I interview some of the world's leading communication professionals as we explore their career journey. I'm so excited to be chatting to today's guest and we've actually not caught up in a while, so we were having quite a bit of a chat before we started today but we definitely stalk each other on LinkedIn and to our dear friends within the profession.

Priya Sarma  ABC which stands for Accredited Business Communicator and I'll talk about that a little bit later, is the head of Corporate Affairs and Sustainability for Unilever Middle East and Turkey. She's a current board member of the advertising business group. An organization she formed back in 2016 and was also selected as one of the top 10 marketing game changers in 2020 by Campaign Magazine.

Priya is a very experienced communication professional leading in the profession in the Middle East. She's based out of the UAE and has made that shift from the world of advertising to marketing and then communication. She's very successful and I might add she's a leader of influence and a board advisor in what I call a tough market.

She certainly is an excellent leader and achieved quite a lot in her career. So welcome, Priya. It's great to be talking to you today. 

[Priya Sarma] Hi Adrian and this sounds like such a blast from the past. Thank you for a, such a wonderful introduction. Hope I live up you know, to that though and it's so wonderful to reconnect.

[Adrian] I have no doubt. And if I, if I think back, you know, it's fabulous to catch up after so long. And it's not that we haven't been in touch for over 13 years, but 13 years ago is when we actually met and started the Unilever accreditation program that we did in joint partnership with the IABC and, of course, my business.

Then Cropley Communication, and you know, it was such a special time to have some of your colleagues in Unilever and yourself do that accreditation process. Have you forgiven me yet? 

[Priya] Adrian, if I remember, I think we were the first cohort that kind of went through the program and it was for me it was quite a game changer, actually.

And it really helped Shift mindset for me, and more importantly, give me a high level of confidence in my own capabilities. So I have to thank you a lot for that program. It was really intense, but it really gave me a lot of focus. A lot of times you go through programs and like they say, you'll Probably end up you know, embeding or remembering 20%. [Adrian] Yes, that's right. [Priya] Yes. Yes. Brilliant. You know, the way you conducted that program was really brilliant because of course we had a greater opportunity meeting face-to-face. Yes. I think as a team more than once and, you know, really deep diving Week at a time into what you were teaching us.

But for me, the most important part was that it actually came together in the end, if you remember, when we had to make our final presentations. [Adrian]That's right. [Priya] And yeah, and for me, I think it was really brilliant because I remember sitting that night because we had to present the next morning, if you remember, you were really specific saying, guys, we're going to record this. You'll have only 10 minutes to present and if you go over, it's not gonna be to your benefit. I remember working on my presentation and everything fell into place when I was pulling it together. And it was very work-oriented, right? Because I then took that piece of work back to my business and presented it there.

So for me and again, don't want to toot my own horn, but it wasn't an easy course and if I remember, there were just two of us who were actually passed on the first go. So for me, [Adrian] yes, that's right. [Priya] Me. Yeah. and so for me, that's why it was a big game changer because when I went on the course, it was like creating an opportunity to learn, meet up with the team, you know, and so on and so forth.

But in the end, like I said, it, for me, it was a mindset shift because it showed me personally that I could achieve a lot more. And like I said, you know, it was very work oriented. So everything that I learned, I brought back into the business, and I think that was really the platform that allowed me to excel.

So thank you. [Adrian] You, you were quite welcome. [Priya] and I have to say it kind of, it was one of those programs that really sorted thinking out, wasn't it? [Adrian] You know, you came to it with, with your expertise and I think for, people, you know, and I would say people like yourself, it was very validating to know that you were on the right track, but it gave you lots of solid thinking to actually apply back into the business and it,  certainly wasn't easy, but boy, it was intense. But I think it established relationships for a long time. If I think about yourself and people like Elvera Makki, who's been on our view from the top podcast and Shanahan and, Til who's still on my team, have done such a great job in Using that information to, build their careers. So I still feel like a very proud dad. [Priya] and you shared because the most significant benefit for us was that it was very tailored to our needs. Right. It was a very specific program that, you worked with Helena, who was the director at that time, comms director, and you guys really worked together to ensure that it met our needs.So it wasn't a generic program that we walked into, but it's very tailored 

[Adrian] and it, it was nice you know, we were able to have a second cohort as we went through  Unilever, and it was a great opportunity to then run some leadership coaching,  which I went on to do. So, you know, just that,  time, you know, I ended up working with the Unilever team for a number of years past that and some of the exec Communication leaders in coaching who have gone on and done some amazing things, both in Unilever and other organizations.

So, you know, good, good training. I think when it's delivered well actually works and aligning it with things like professional qualifications. But your recognition, you've done such an amazing job when I see that you're sitting on boards now and advisory and starting organizations, and I'd love to explore those a a little bit, you know, cuz you're in that phase of your,  career now and you notice I'm not, not using signs like you're at that age or it's a number of years.

I'm not gonna do that to either you or me, but it's with experience. It gives you an opportunity to give back, and I can see that's what you are doing in your career, but where, where did it start for you? What was it you wanted to be when you grew up? So, thanks. I just wanted to add that in addition to the advertising business group, which I, I set on the board, I helped set it up in 2016.

I've continued to sit on the board and of course, the launch of the UN Stereotype Alliance. Which was where I got ah, yes. Recognized as the top 20 Game changers. I now also sit on two new boards, so. March of this year, I got nominated to chair from this was amongst our members and peer companies.

I now chair the Circular Packaging Association. . And then more recently, I'm also on the board of the Multinational Companies Business group, which is another association made up of the top. Well, about, I think we've got 53 or 56 multinational companies on as members. So yeah, those are the. A few, but it's been a journey to obviously get here.

Yeah. Like you mentioned, I, you know, I finished my  mba and while I was doing my mba, I was kind of very clear that I didn't want to get into call sales or marketing. Right. And I was always very fascinated with advertising. So that's where I did all my summer trainings, internships, and then on completion joint You know, joined one of the top Indian a ad agencies and then got married to somebody who was in the similar field.

He was a creative director. Oh, really? And yes. And you know, that's how it happens. And then we very fortunately Just before we got married, he got an offer from  the same agency network for Egypt. And we then moved to Cairo and that's where I spent another eight years working for a local agency and then another multinational.

And that's when I had had my twins. And so while it was great when I was single, I mean as in. You know, no familial ties, so to speak. Once I had the kids I was pretty clear at that time that I couldn't really continue in that field. Yeah. You know, it doesn't really allow to create work-life balance and I took time off, but it also coincided with the fact that we moved from Egypt to Dubai.

Yeah. And I had kept in touch with my clients, which were Unilever clients in Cairo. And some of who had moved here because Unilever had undergone a bit of a transformation in terms of how their marketing was structured into BD business development and you know business and the brand building team.

So brand development and brand building. So some of them had moved from Cairo to here, and that's when I heard about the role the, that they were looking for somebody to help the corporate comms department, which had just been set up. Fantastic. And that's how I ended up joining Unilever and getting into communication.

What a great opportunity I mean, so there was real, a catalyst to, to make that switch and trying to, to do that juggle. But it sounds like there was great opportunities in those, moves and obviously your connections to end up working for, one of the biggest.

Corporates in the world.  So the first job in Unilever was doing what? So I joined at that point of time to have the corporate comms right function. Yeah. And at that point of time, the, what we call the M C O Multi-Country Organization had just been set up. So prior to that, you had .

A business that was working out of the Uua E and Saudi. Another one that was independently working out of Egypt, another one in Morocco. But in 2007, that was the year before I joined, they pulled it together to form Unilever Mina. Ah, right. That was the role I walked into. It was newly set up.

Yeah. So that was the first let's say my first port of call and that's what I did. I had to set up the team and it was a very big task . So the first five, six years, the team and I really focused on just employee engagement or internal comms because that was really what the business needed.

Yes. Because like I mentioned, originally there were different businesses which now had come together to form Unilever Meina, and there continued to be five, what we call business units. Each had their own leadership team reporting into the head office, . Which was run out of the uae.

Yeah. So each of these businesses, like I said, so you had the Gulf business had their own leadership team. Yeah. Covered uae, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman. You had the Saudi business then, which had their own leadership team. You had the Levant managed out of Lebanon. You had the mushroom business managed out of Egypt.

Yep. And then the mare business outta Morocco. Now each of these is. Very different, right? They have very different, they kinda have their own mix of portfolios. They have their own priorities in terms of you know, their own external challenges, opportunities. So it was really important that despite these differences, we really build one cohesive organization and really have.

Employees focused. So that was a lot of what we did in the first few years. Yeah. And and for me, so it's almost like a tale of ooh stories for me, you know, in my journey. So that first bit was a lot of the employee, internal employee engagement bit. Yeah. And and. And in a way it was also what we, besides the fact that that's what we needed to do, there wasn't a lot of opportunity for external engagement Yeah.

In these markets at that point of time. Yeah. It was only in about 20 14, 20 15 that we started seeing an opportunity to start advocating and engaging externally with regulators and. And so on and so forth. Because especially in the uae, that's when  they started setting up associations and so on and so forth.

So that's when I started. It was only in about 2015 that I started doing my external engagement work, external work and it and, and do you think that was very much what the, what was happening in the market globally at. The time, like communication. The discipline of communication was very segmented, you know, into the internal versus external world.

But as you know, as we see today that the, the messages that we have internally are the same that we have externally and vice versa. Yes. And we've got this merging of, of technologies and channels. Do you think that's what kind of brought that together? I would think so, although I think the Middle East was a little behind, right?

Because markets like Europe are much more developed, especially with regards to advocacy and all of that. So in a way, we had the advantage of learning a little bit from that, but also what I've seen and, and also for our governments out here. Right. And it's absolutely brilliant because They tend to learn from what they're seeing in Europe, let's say.

Yes. And get influenced by that. And it's a very positive influence. So our ability to engage and influence is much, much higher. Yeah. And we see a lot of working, cohesive working between the, the regulators and the private sector out here. And it, and it's really, it's a very good it's at a very good place.

They do look to us for expertise that we can bring from our global markets. Yeah. And actually really work with them progressively. Yeah. And, and look, because you have that that ability to see across those different markets and bringing in, you know, the, the knowledge and, and the expertise. Do, do you think sometimes they, they sell themselves short a little bit and say, well, you know, everything good is external to the Middle East, but there's some great practices that are actually coming up through the Middle East that you know, they should look internally.

 I think it, you know, I think it works both ways. Adrian Eisen, I think you should always try and borrow the best, right? Yeah. But you're correct. There, there are a lot of cultural nuances that you have to apply at the end of the day. Yeah. You cannot be you know you'd be kind of shooting yourself in the foot if you weren't sensitive to all of that.

Absolutely. So yes, , there is work that is coming up. Well and I think there will be a point of time when we probably, I'm hoping we will be able to progress a little faster. Yeah. And accelerate a lot more. Because like I said, if you have the opportunity of being able to borrow, let's say even just on the concept of the circular economy, right?

Yes. Europe has taken almost 20, 25 years to get to where they are. Yes. We are trying to now. You know, reach that same state in the next five years. So it's a very exciting journey, and we have the benefit of borrowing and seeing what worked and what didn't. Yeah, and that's you, there was I can't remember who I was talking to the other day, but it was, it was almost like there's, there's.

Different economies within the, the globe where they just skip over the generation so they kind of go, right. So we were so, so far behind, but now we're actually jumping over that development period that a lot of other, other economies and, and communities have gone through. And we're now .

At the same level, if not you know, advancing in certain areas. So I think there's a, there's an advantage isn't there, sometimes to go, actually we don't have to do this in a very slow Yes. Cultural pace. We can actually leap ahead with those learnings. So, absolutely. I mean, like we say, you know there's, just borrow what you can in terms of learning.

Yes. And then figure out, you know, both in terms of what works and what doesn't. In terms of what you want to do on the ground. So yeah. And, and the great part is that the Middle East economy, especially on a sustainability front, are becoming so they're becoming very aware. Yeah. And they are trying to catch up as fast as they can because one is that they see Well, they see the benefit or they wanna avoid the negative impact.

But they also want to ensure that they're not gonna get left behind, right? Yeah. And they're gonna make the positive difference that they can. Well see the ultimate reinventor, isn't it? Or, or inventing something new, particularly the uae, how it's, you know, look at Dubai over the. Over the years, talk about a city that grew really fast.

 And it was all based around, you know, we need to reinvent ourselves because, you know, one day we won't have the oil and we won't have, yeah. The wealth from, from that, but we will get the wealth else elsewhere. And ingenuity and I think design and all sorts of things is coming outta the uae, which is brilliant.

But it's, , it's interesting the question sometimes , we, we get asked all the perceptions that we get. I'm gonna, so I'm gonna ask you a bit of an edgy question now about the challenges of being, I mean, you are, you are a leader, you are female, and you're working in the, the Middle East. Do you see challenges in, in becoming a, you know, the head of the, the game that you certainly have, have, have got to, were there there challenges along the way?

Or what, what are the things that you've observed of women in leadership roles in, in the Middle East?  You could say Priya, you know, you don't really know the language. So from a cultural perspective, how do you engage? But the. Great part is that you know, because of the culture a lot out here is to do with relationship building.

Yeah. So it doesn't matter if you don't really speak the language if you you know, so long as you are culturally sensitive and you engage with partners who have the same vision and ambition. Yeah. It's not a problem. I've never faced a problem. Yeah. And so with regards to your question really on senior leadership also, I don't know how many people are aware, but.

The government is extremely progressive out here and in ah 2020 when the cabinet reshuffle happened they ensured that they had a 50 50 mix between men and women. And I have to say that that's better than most countries. Yes. Yes. And I have to say, it wasn't just because they had that ambition.

Each woman minister that you meet and speak to, They are brilliant. Yeah. They're, you can make out their passion, their performance their engagement, their understanding of the subject, their ability to engage externally on a global platform. It's absolutely brilliant. Each one of them is more engaging than the other.

Also in the public sector, you actually have, I think 60% of the women of the people. Working in the public sector are actually women. Mm-hmm. And I'm talking specific to the uae. Yeah. And in fact the private sector is nowhere near there. I mean, even Unilever, which is ahead of the game, we have about 46% women in mid and senior management.

As of N 2022 even we are ahead of the game because in 20, that's very positive. It's a very positive stand, but even we are kind of. You know, we are kind of really ahead of the game. Most companies are not at that stage, and so there's a lot of work that, for instance, the UAE gender balance is looking to do, to ensure that the private sectors now starts catching up.

Yeah. And isn't it funny that the private sector now has to catch up with the government? Sector you, you'd think a lot of that would be coming outta the private sector. And it'd be interesting to see some of the research in other parts of the world how that, how that's going. But that's certainly not the impression I get here in, well, certainly not across the Asia market.

And again, saying the Middle East as an entity is very different. UAE is different to Saudi and Yemen and different Sure. Different places, but you know, in the UAE it's obviously very, progressive cuz it doesn't get there overnight. So the fact that there's a number of women in senior leadership roles and the, the stats are, you know, basically 50 50 if not better in  some areas in terms of women in leadership roles.

It's had to work at that over time. Absolutely. So it's been, you know, they've had the ambition leadership, the UAE leadership has had the ambition and even everything that you were mentioning in terms of you know, where. Dubai is to today. Yeah. It's, it's been a very planned journey for them. Yes. And I think Covid is a brilliant example of that long-term view that they took of where they wanted to go.

That's really, I think, The UAE really, really stood out at that point of time. Yeah. With regards to not just vaccinations, vaccines were available to everybody free of cost. Yeah. The setup was brilliant. You could be in and out in less than six minutes, just go take your shot, your back.

I wish we had that pre, I can tell you, and you know what, everything was the high level of, you know, especially at that time. With regards to, you know, when we were in the, when we, you know, in the period of being locked up at home, the amount of engagement that the government had with the private sector to ensure that businesses were not negatively impacted, how could they work more effectively?

It was really, really very strong. And I think that's the time when the UAE stood out and like I said, yeah, it was with the ambition of having a long-term vision, right? So they have a 2050 plan. Dubai has recently, I think in January they announced that 2023 plan.

So, you know, they have the 20 23, 20 50, 20. You know, a 70 plan going forward. And so it's a very it's, I think it's, it's like some of the best companies, the way companies are run in the world. Yeah. Yeah. It's absolutely amazing. So even with regards to the private sector, some stats that I can share with you so Like I said, there is work for the private sector to be done, right?

Yes. Yeah. The World Federation of Advertisers, the W F A in 2021, they conducted a census globally and as the advertising business group, we supported them with regards to this market. And. The data that we got from here was, and this is based on also on perceptions of people within the market, within the markcom industry.

Right? Yeah. And one of the key data points that came out was that Why do you get a lot of young women join the Markham industry? Yeah. At the point that they join, there's at least a perceived salary gap Yes. Between what women think they're getting Vivi, their male counterparts. Yeah. They then start working up and at the mid management level, they manage.

Closing that gap and actually doing better than the male counterparts. But it's at that point yeah. That the attrition starts happening. Yeah. Really. And a lot of women, yes. And a lot of women tend to leave the industry at that point of time, and which means that much fewer women are available for C-Suite rules, and which is.

Where we then again, see the salary gap increasing. Ah, so that's obviously that census has now been redone again this year. Yeah. Which is in 2023. Again, as a p g we have supported. Yeah. But the results will only be announced I think at Cannes Lions later this month. So we don't know what the results are, but we are very clear that as an industry, that there is work to be done.

Right. Yeah. And So what we are doing, but the ABG is one association, right? Yeah. But like the abg, you have many others. You have three, four others. And we are all trying to now come together to see how we can deep dive on this one data point to try and figure out where does the issue lie. Yes. To that would be really fascinating Yes.

Is to really figure out what are the issues and what is the support that is there for needed to keep women. And continue to attract them so that you have an adequate talent pipeline as a move up. That's right. Cuz I mean, if they're, they're all, you know, you get this great attrition before it hits that c c-suite roles, that becomes really problematic.

So it'd be interesting to unpack , that data point. I am so gonna have to get you back on another another podcast. In fact, there was two topics we, we talked about earlier and, and that, this being one of them. Cause I'm, I'm really fascinated to. To unpack that data. But the other is, is, is obviously, you know, your, your passion, which is in sustainability and circular economy.

And we we, we'll do a special episode  on that one just for our members, down the track Priya, cuz I would love to be able to talk to you again. But before I wrap, I, I just want to. Tap back into, you know, you've had this, this amazing career and now you are sitting on board, you are the head off function in Unilever there.

Tell me a little bit about your current role. Obviously not giving away too much about, you know, what you're working on in Unilever, but Yeah, what's the, the breadth of your role now? Because it is, it's the head of communication and sustainability and so what does that include? 

Yeah. So in 20 so till about 2019 I was heading corporate comms. But that was the point of time when, so for us still then, we only had a global sustainability team, but in 20. 18, 20 19, they started thinking you know, the global theme thought that it's wise to have feet on the ground, right?

Because markets tend to be different from global functions because while you can prepare policies at a global level and yes, build reputation, and that's been done brilliantly for Unilever, a lot of the work tends to happen on the ground. So yeah, I don't have a sustainability background, but my executive vice president at that time, Knew how passionate I was about the study, about the subject.

Right? So, because at that point it was at that point that I had set up the A, B, G. Yeah. And which today by the way, just it we at. 2016 when we set it up, we had 18 members. We now have more than 60 members. Yeah. Across not just advertisers, but platforms, agencies, research agencies. And our members actually account for almost 70% of the ad spend.

Wow. So it, we've really built it up. There is a sustainability work stream that aren't gonna be leading this year, given the fact that we've got COP 28 happening here. Yes. But and at that point I was also representing the M C B G which is the multinational companies business group. I today sit on the board, but at that time I was heading I was just a part of the M C B G.

Yeah. But I got nominated to represent the C B G at on a u A E. Private sector advisory council. Yeah. That had been set up by the government on the SDGs. This was very specific and that's when I worked with the UAE Gender Balance Council and did a lot of other things. So that was, I think my lee and interest and my own realization that this is the work that I love doing.

I love doing the work on advocacy. And in 2020 actually, when. Covid hit. Yeah. My, the person who took over my role, the corporate comms, she left exactly at that point of time. So, you know, so. I then I was managing sustainability, but I also got the corporate comms bit back and and that's where I have continued to work.

But I have to say I'm not and I have to clarify, I'm Unilever has undergone another transition, right? The transformation last year. Yeah. Most would be aware. So today my role is, Well, it's a, it's a bit of a tongue twister, so I manage, shall we try sustainability?  I manage sustainability for Middle East Turkey.

Yeah. But I managed  corporate affairs for, , the Middle East, but very specifically for two of our categories, which is I support them on their comms need for the home care. And the beauty and wellbeing. Yeah. But on the ground, I do everything that is needed for let's say this market, because that's where my relationships sit, right?

Mm-hmm. Yeah, because like I mentioned at the start, everything out here is a lot relationship. Based. Yes. So I head on the circular, I do all the advocacy work on the circular economy because I now chair the circular economy. I do it on D N I because that's another big topic for Unilever. Yes. And it's a big topic for the country and the region.

So I lead the UN Stereotype Alliance. And so those, I think and now I'm also heading the working group under the M C B G on the COP 28. So, That's a little bit of how it kind of comes together. Yeah, and and I have to say it's, it's not like I have a team really. Right. But it's, in my view, the way I bring it together is, like I said, again, I'm not a core sustainability person, but my role Yes.

Is to advocate. For the sustainability priorities that are important to both Unilever and the country. And,  and if anybody wants to see how much you do advocate is, is check your LinkedIn profile. Cause I, I notice you're speaking at different forums and on different panels, and I, I get so chuffed when I see your profile of, of you,  this is the thing when you, you get to be as accomplished as somebody like yourself and, , and leading.

In an organization that the value , is who you are and the value you have to those relationships that you build. And that's where, you know, you've been asked to attend to the different conferences and speak at those conferences. Yeah. So this is, this is what true influencers are about, Priya.

Well that's amazing that you can encapsulate it like that. You know, there's a certain point of time agent when I was like, You know, what is my role? I'm a communicator, but yeah. What is the impact that I'm delivering? Right. Until I realized communication is really the start to driving change. Yeah. And which is why.

Despite the fact that I have a really you know, overpacked agenda, I really think it is my responsibility Yeah. To share. And this is what Unilever is very good at doing, right? Yeah. We really believe in collaboration and we do believe in sharing our expertise. So, which is why I feel very blessed to be at a company like Unilever.

Yes. Which aims to ensure that you're. You are really enhancing, you're working on your passion. Yes. It's not about for spitting you somewhere else. That's right. Yeah, absolutely. Just Rob, just keep giving you the list of things to do. Oh my god. No, absolutely. And you know, one of the things we found is that people have the passion areas.

Like for me, I'm not. Passionate about, let's say something like pr. I'm not, I'm just not, I tell people I'm not, and I'm not a great, and I was telling somebody the other day, I'm, I'm a communicator, but I don't really consider myself, I, I, I hate talking about what I do per se, but I, I automatically go towards the whole collaborative bit.

That's where I you know, put my energy. Yeah. Well, and, and, and that energy shows Priya and I, I'm, I'm so sorry. We we're out of time for this, this episode. This is why I have to catch up with you again and we'll  do some deep diving into some of the, the topics. But maybe one of the last words from, you, Priya,  what's one nugget of advice you would give to communication professionals?

Building their career. What's the biggest lesson maybe you've learned you'd like to share with others? So I think the biggest one is don't let your job description define what you want, what you're gonna do. And yeah. And, and, I'll tell you my own story and why I see this is that You know, when, when the opportunity to set up the advertising, the self-regulatory advertising business group came up the, opportunity wasn't really presented to me.

I just called, got called in by my executive Vice President for a meeting along with. Somebody else, somebody seen it from another function and, you know, he outlined the need for setting up such a platform because it didn't exist out here. Yeah. And we thought it was very important for the industry to have a platform where they could, you know, the marcom industry where they could get together and  work collectively.

But for six months that person didn't really do anything. And that's when I grabbed the opportunity  and in a way that's when I found my passion also. Right, right. So it's very important that you don't. Let your job description really just yep. Don't let it define who you are. Just take every opportunity, and it's very important that we keep enhancing our own capability building.

Challenge yourself, take on something new, roll with it. But it's very important that you do it with passion and purpose and integrity because people see, see that? Yes. And don't. Gets weighed by just taking on those things, which you think will automatically get you eyeballs. It, it doesn't work like that.

Yeah. Do the work that you are passionate about, do it really well. And it'll serve you its own rec reward. Brilliant. So passion and a purpose to it. And, and thank you so much again, Priya, for, for taking this time to join me on a view from the top. To all of those out there, I look forward to the next episode of A View From the Top if you want to, get ahead in, your career.

And  battle the, the accreditation process or now certification process. Talk to us at the Center of Strategic Communication Excellence and we can work with you to develop an in-house program. Priya, thank you again and thanks to all of our listeners for joining us today and look forward to hearing from you next time.