Episode 36 - Jyoti Khan SCMP

Singapore-based Jyoti Khan SCMP has built an enviable career over the last 20 years, rising to the top in internal communication for one of the world's biggest brands. After a stint in agency life, where she worked with some of the best technology, telecom, IT services, and financial brands in India, Asia and around the globe,  it was only natural Jyoti would eventually co-found her own consultancy. Bricks and Clicks is a strategic communication consultancy helping businesses lead through change and unlock opportunities for innovation, creativity and growth.

Jyoti is passionate about working with leaders to energise and align teams to a common purpose, inspire change and help them build great organisational cultures. She is a former member of the Forbes Communications Council and immediate past chair of the Asia-Pacific Board of the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC).

In this episode, she shares her career journey and the opportunities she has had to build a senior career in the communication profession. She also talks about the upcoming IABC Asia-Pacific Fusion Conference, and the value of networks and connections.

Transcript

Adrian: 0:10

Hello, and welcome to another episode of A View From the Top, I'm Adrian Cropley. A View From the Top is a regular podcast from the Center for Strategic Communication Excellence, where I interview some of the world's leading communication professionals as we explore their career journey. Today I am heading to one of my favorite cities in Asia, Singapore. And it's not just because of the great food and shopping, it's because of the great people like Jyoti Khan, today's guest, who is a certified strategic communication management professional. For over two decades, Jyoti has been a constant learner honing her skills and being an advocate for the art and the science of strategic communication. She's worked in some of the best technology telcos IT services and financial services brands in India, Asia, and around the globe in both the agency and corporate environments. Let tell you a little bit about Jyoti before I introduce her. She's passionate about working with leaders to energize, and align teams to common purpose, inspire, change, and help them build great organization cultures. She's a member of the Communication Council for Forbes and a chair of the Asia Pacific Board of the International Association of business communicators, which I'm thrilled she is. Jody is a co-founder director, and I love this title, chief of Everything, of Bricks and Clicks, a strategic communication consultancy that helps businesses lead through change by building communication strategies that inspire action. Jyoti, what an introduction, and it's absolutely fabulous to have you here and be chatting with you. Welcome.

Jyoti: 2:02

It my pleasure to be here and be speaking with you an honor. Thank you.

Adrian: 2:08

It's it's been, it's been a little while since we caught up. I mean, we are gonna actually get to see each other face to face in Bali in a little while, and we're gonna talk about that one in a moment. But it's absolutely lovely to connect with you because we've been working in these interesting circles over many years. And I don't wanna say how long ago since last time we met face to face, but it's been a while.

Jyoti: 2:30

It has. And yes, Bali, we're so excited and I'm so glad to see your name on the agenda. So we'll be in, my role with the IABC Asia Pacific Board. We are working on a conference, a regional communications conference. Called Fusion 2023. It is going to be held in Bali, September Fourth and fifth. The whole board's working on it and we've got great support from leaders like yourself. So what's unique about this conference is that it is an event from the communication professionals in the region for the communication professionals in the region. So we know the challenges we work with, we know what inspire us. We know the opportunities and the limitations that we work with working in a diverse market like the Asia Pacific and we thought it is a great opportunity after the pandemic to get our members together and non-members as well, and bring them together in a group where they can network, learn from each other, learn from. Those who've done this before and really go back inspired and energized like I always feel after conversations like this. So yeah.

Adrian: 3:41

I'm so pleased, you know, when Bali's on the list, it's not hard to go. I really want to be there. It is actually a great place to, to gather and working on that theme of diversity, I think is really important too. And I was really thrilled when I saw what the, the theme of the conference was about working across diverse cultures, because that's a lot of what we are dealing with today in our work. I mean, we've talked about globalization for many years, but really, are we, still doing the surface level stuff or we really digging a little bit deeper around diverse cultures and how we, work with those cultures within our organizations. So Bali, gosh, I can't wait for the first cocktail by the pool. Maybe that's just the day.

Jyoti: 4:28

It absolute would be. And you know, you cannot know. Just a little trivia on why we chose Bali. We actually went and our, members around like this time last year, we did a survey and we said, we want to do a conference. Where would you want to go? And guess what one you know, Bali like, okay, you say, you say, and we do it. So yes, Bali is purely by demand. And of course, who doesn't want to go there?

Adrian: 4:50

Absolutely, and I highly recommend it to communication professionals. The, network experience and the learning is going to be absolutely fabulous. You're meeting communication professionals from right around, not just the region, but the, the, the world. And I think that's really important because that's where our learnings are. So it is great to be back. Face-to-face. I'm really glad the first face-to-face regional conference since COVID is in a place like Bali. And it's obviously the place of inspiration at the moment because at the center we are doing our retreat at the end of October in Bali as well. So it was obviously on everybody's mind to do something around Bali and why not. So tell me a little bit and I'm going to explore your career now, Jyoti before we talk about what you are doing currently with Bricks and Clicks. So, we'll cover that a little bit later, but where did everything start for you? Where did your career start? Is, is the communication field something you always wanted to be part? What led you into doing that?

Jyoti: 5:51

That's a, that's a great question and one that I often think about. You know, in hindsight things just add up. So I, I, I was in, in university studying business management, and I thought HR was my calling. So every opportunity I got, I went into organizations, did all my internships and projects in hr, and I thought that was my calling. I finished my university and I was visiting a friend who worked at Ogilvy pr, and I just found myself in that. In that office. This was New Delhi. And I don't know, something in me said that, you know, I've got time and why don't I do internship with them? That could not be far from hr. But I was just inspired by Ogilvy to go again. What I heard from my friend, I was young and I was like, okay, lemme give it a try. What's said to lose? That happened like just before 2000. And then I found myself staying on with communication as a career. So I spent my first few years working with various PR agency, Ogilvy Webber Shandwick text 100 working on the best known technology brands in the world very, very early on. I was so fortunate to work with great brands, great teams, great leaders, mentors, and that just, everything just fits so well. And I was just learning the basics of PR communication while there and that's where it all started purely from external communications.

Adrian: 7:22

So the agency world was, your grounding, which is actually, you know, when you think about it's a really good grounding to get that agency exposure.'cause you get the broad range of clients and the broad range of skills that you develop early in the piece. Where, did you go to from the agency world? Because I know you've had corporate experience as well you've that, grounding in, in agency, did you stay with an agency or did you move into different organizations?

Jyoti: 7:48

So, having Moved to Singapore to an agency, I found myself interviewing. With a Global Indian Telco TATA for an internal communications role. A headhunter thought I would be a great fit coming from where I was coming from, and they were looking for their first internal comms person in Asia, in Singapore. I went for the interview and I was very naive to say that you know, I know communication, I know messaging, I know how, how audience thinks I know how to use words to shape opinions and perceptions. So I think I can do this role and I'm shocked. I was hired

Adrian: 8:28

Just to give people context, context. World's biggest organizations. Right? You are so brave, just stepping and going, yeah, I know communications. I'm going to do this. I, admire you, Jyoti

Jyoti: 8:45

I know but, but I must say, I think there was something about work ethics or cultural fit that they thought was, was right for the role. And I am so pleased that I, went in for that interview that I did make the cut, and I ended up being the first internal comms person working in Tata Communications, which were the up and comingbrand in communication at that point what also worked was that I, again, very early on in my career, I got to work with the C-Suite right away. So I was coming from an agency world, I was brand new to internal comms. And, and I was unveiling this with the organization, working right alongside the C-Suite because they were looking at integrating the businesses they had acquired. I was right in the middle of all of that learning, and it could have been the best, best opportunity for anyone to take on. And I was right there at the right time with the right people. And that's how it all started for me in internal comms.

Adrian: 9:44

That is brilliant. Did you, get that sense you'd found home in internal comms when you started doing that?

Jyoti: 9:50

Oh, I think, within the first week I was just, it blew my mind and you know, I was a part, I was reporting into the HR function back then. It wasn't corp comms in that organization working so closely with, with comms and with, with the C-suite. And it was absolutely eye-opening and I knew that's where I'd found home. I knew this is what I want to be doing for the rest of my professional life because there's so much to learn and there's so much to grow within the field. And this is you know, almost sort of 18 years in. And I'm as excited as I was on day one in that business. So.

Adrian: 10:24

I have to say I, am much the same. You know, when you, think back at those early days, and you and I were, were having a little bit of a chat around that, there is a little bit more of a connection between us two from early in your career. Was it at Tata when you did the Black Belt internal communication program?

Jyoti: 10:42

I did. I did. So I was so, so Adrian. I was so new to this field and I was hungry to learn. I wanted to do the best job I could as the single internal comms professional in the business that needed all this work. So I was taking every opportunity to learn. I wanted to own my own learning agenda, and I wanted to make a difference. So I was out looking out for every possible. That's when I, across your profile, I remember that course. Now I've. You know those notes right here in my study, 12 years in, and it was absolutely outstanding. The, course, the depth, the breadth, the networking, the engagement was just spot on for me at that time. But surprisingly, even to date for anyone. Who was probably doing a course like that today, I think it was just perfect. So I took that opportunity and every other, so when I remember being on the student side with you being the faculty in that course, and, and I came back so inspired and energized from that program.

Adrian: 11:49

I have, many happy memories of running thatcourse I mean, we ran, we ran Black belt for, 10 years from, Malcolm before black Belt before Malcolm was, was, was bought out as an organization and Black Belt moved to CEB then Gartner. And I was, I remember, you know, talking to you before and reflecting that, black belt was still within my blood because when the center was formed and Sia and I got together, We, we looked at developing that program for communication professionals and much of that core, the foundation stuff brings so true today as it did when you were doing the program. Now it's strategic communication management, but it's, very much looking at that principles of good foundation and good. Strategic development of communication professionals and where we can lead in organizations. And I'm just so glad that you were, you were part of that, but you, you've taken that and you've built that into your career ongoing. So you've now worked, you know, a massive opportunity with Tata. Where did you go to post Tata? That was an a time you spent a significant amount of time with, where did you go to from there?

Jyoti: 13:01

Yep. So I, I worked with Tata for about six years. I went and joined the Canadian Bank Royal Bank of Canada, and I was, again, the first internal comms person they had in the region. Absolutely loved working there. What was most interesting, Adrian, and this goes back to the, the principles of pure communication, good communication, and you always go back to the basics of message and leaders and importance of knowing your audience. And that doesn't change. So I, I joined this bank, which is an investment bank. And just because of the nature of the business, you don't have access to the latest technology. You've got restrictions because you're dealing with sensitive client data. So, Pure internal comms working with investment bankers. It was the most amazing experience I had because R B C was an amazing organization with a very established communication function globally. But taking all of that, bringing it here in Asia and doing it for them with focusing on the basics, it was such an eye-opening experience for me. Also I think a validation that the channels or the mediums change, but at the core, the basics of communication, of authenticity and importance of true leadership and the, power of the word and listening to your audience and really bringing them along the journey of change that doesn't change. That's so important. That stays true. It was, and it is, and I think it'll be going forward.

Adrian: 14:34

The, experiences you've got from doing that, I mean, shifting from, from an organization like Tarter into to banking, and you've already done the agency world, did you, you feel like you were filling your bag? Of life skills as you were moving forward, had you already had in your blood that some stage you're gonna develop your own organization?

Jyoti: 14:54

Oh, it was, it was much later. So, yeah, I, I spent a few more years in corporate worlds, and I think it was just at the, at the start of the pandemic a little before that it started to like, you know, something different, some. Got, to sort of take your fear head off setting something of your own. That's, that's how we sort of ended up with our consultancy, which we'll talk about later.

Adrian: 15:16

Yeah. And so where to from thereafter that work, with the the bank and getting those experiences. What did you do from that point,

Jyoti: 15:24

So I worked with Ericsson briefly and then

Adrian: 15:27

and there was that other connection. Jody

Jyoti: 15:30

I know. And so you and I, I

Adrian: 15:32

organization.

Jyoti: 15:33

exactly, and I, and I, and I was just telling you that Adrian, you have been a common red thread across my, across my career without knowing. I think so. I, I've,

Adrian: 15:45

You had a, you had a stalker without even knowing it, Jyoti

Jyoti: 15:48

can you imagine? Oh my God, you've just found out. I think probably in every role I've come across either, you know, sort of learning engagement with you or came across your name or read through something. So Ericsson, yes, we both worked with Ericson at different points in time. We did have a Malcolm training at Ericsson as well, so yeah, so you have been a constant, pretty much through my career. Thank you for that. I, I will properly thank you later without knowing it. Yeah, so, so went on to work with Ericsson and Tata called me back and this time, I was really well connected with the leadership team and you know, we were in a conversation. It's like, you know what? Come back and, you know, just, it's been a while and you've gotten your learning, you've got new experience. Your little sabbatical is over. Please come back and take on the role. So I went back for my second inning at Tata communications as the head of internal comms globally kind of. Taking on what I had built in my first stint and elevating it this time with the team, this time working as part of a of the corporate communications functions, working alongside my peers who were heading PR and brand. It was a second inning. And I'm so glad that I had all of that learning and experience and the grounding that I got from all the other outside Tata world, the work that I did. And I went back and I had an amazing second inning. Of five years learning and doing it, being more audacious and trying so many new things, which all work beautifully.

Adrian: 17:19

Tata was a very clever company. They obviously knew that you'd moved on, you'd got that additional experience, then bring you back. They knew they were onto a good thing and they missed you terribly. Well, we're going to say is, is a given The fact that they knew to bring somebody back like yourself that has got that experience and be able to apply it to such a senior role within the organization too, and a senior role in a, in a big organization like Tata what a, what a great opportunity that was.

Jyoti: 17:49

It was Adrian and I cannot thank the business enough and the leaders I worked with. I mean, it was a dream to work with people who believed in the power of communication, so you don't have to. Tell them the basics, but you really have to synergize the, understanding and knowledge you have with the passion they have for the success of the business. Bring that together and you create some real magic. And, and I was so fortunate to have that opportunity, not once, but two times over at very different stage of my career, but also a very different stage of the way the organization evolved and I was very lucky.

Adrian: 18:28

Oh, it's wonderful to hear that that experience, the, you know, from, that experience you got with Tata and, it would've been tough to go, what's the next decision? What's the next course I need to take? What was that next step for you?

Jyoti: 18:44

I think by the time it was 2020 just at the start of the pandemic. And my peer at Tata we both were, I was heading internal comms and my colleague and dear friend Natalie she's based in the uk. And she was heading external communication and we both got talking. We were at similar life stages, done two decades of work, and it felt like what's next for us? Like we could carry on doing, we were so comfortable, carry on doing what we are doing and continue to grow. Hopefully if the business would still have us or go join other businesses and do that or do something totally different, take a chance. You know, what was. Something that we were most scared of to kind of let go of corporate career, take all of the learnings we've had and go set up something of our own and, and try it. And it felt like if we don't do it now, we would never do it. It was just, it felt like a scary thing to do totally out of our comfort zone, but felt like, you know what? We, can, and, it was great that we were thinking of doing this. At the same time and decided to do it together and it was the best decision. After joining Tata, I think it was the best decision that I took. At three years on. I have absolutely no regrets.

Adrian: 19:55

It is really hard when you get to that and I, I call them the, the pinnacle job. You know, when you are head of comms function and it really'cause this, I mean this happened exactly the same for me when I was the head of comms function. You go kind of, where do I go to next? You can kind of take the sidestep into another organization. You can go, right, let me take another Greenfields approach and go into a new organization that's building a function. But it's. It's those, those times where you kind of reflect on what you've done and then what you want to do next. So you would've learned an awful lot of lessons that have gone into that wonderful kit bag of skills I talked about before. To go, we're gonna take the brave new step and go into to business. I want to explore what bricks, and Clicks is all about. But you are an advocate for lifelong learning, and I, I can see this really clearly through your profile and talking to you, what do you think is some of the important things communication professionals need to do to continually develop in their, their careers?

Jyoti: 20:58

We need to stay hungry for learning in the first instance. I don't think you ever know everything, and I don't think you've ever kind of know it all, especially when it comes to a profession like ours because it's changing every day. Very often the leaders and the businesses we work with, they look to us for insights for the conscious of the business, for the pulse of the organization, for what's best to do. For that, we need to be at the top of our game, and therefore, learning is so important. But I won't stop at just learning about communication, I would say. I call it infinite learning, like just this constant in desire to just consume knowledge, be it about business, about behavioral science, about hr, about the kind of stakeholders we work with. Just why people do what they do, why they behave in a certain way. There is so much out there, depending on your own appetite and specific area of interest, there is so much to learn. But what is non-negotiable, I think, is knowing business. So if you are a business communications professional, working with either clients or leaders, you need to be a business leader first and a communication leader second. So therefore, know the business. Know what keeps the leaders up at night. Know the industry that you're working with, know the language, and I think that keeps you going. So my first and foremost advice for anyone who's in whether a leader or a beginner in the profession is to stay hungry and look out. Seek those learning opportunities. Define your own learning path. Take that ownership. Don't wait for your manager or someone else or your leader to tell you, go out and find this thing. Take that initiative, own that agenda and learn. And I think that's one of the first things, and I think one of the things that kept me going and helped me grow second, I think is most important is to network to kind of Your tribe. Find people outside, within the business if you can. But whether they are comms leaders, you know, you can have, you can know people without actually, knowing them. Like I have followed Adrian in these 20 years as a leader, as a fellow professional within, within the region, but so many different people. Find your tribe, find that connection. So I found that in IABC, for instance, when I joined as a member and now as a volunteer leader, there is so much that you learn by conversation, so connect with people. As internal comms professionals, we are very, very forthcoming in sharing challenges, in sharing our knowledge. With people and with, with peers. So please go find those connections, whether in internal comms or business more generally. Find those connections, find your tribe, work with people who you can just sort of connect with. Sound of ideas have sound important. I think that's really important as well. So knowledge and, connections and third is. Stick to the basics, right? You can be overwhelmed by ai, the next big tool, the next big technology, the next big data. But all of that is well know, but in my opinion, The basics of communications are really simple and they are not going to change. So you would still need, it's people talking to people very often. You can take machines and use them as channel, but people talking to people and therefore authenticity and message the power of your words and, and just the pure leadership is so important. So that is never going to go out fashion. So stick to the basics as well.

Adrian: 24:46

Three really good pieces of advice. Jyoti and I, I I love the fact that you've, taken those lessons from all the experiences that you've had and be able to give that advice and, share that experience. I know you and I are going to connect in a Future podcast where we'll dive into some of those skills and those skills are, are actually very relevant to the work that you are doing now with Bricks and Clicks. So I, really want to, explore why you've positioned the business that you have today, your agency, and what will it be focusing on, or what is it focusing on within our, profession? Because there's a couple of skill areas here that close to my heart as well.

Jyoti: 25:28

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So bricks and clicks. When, Natalie and I, my business partner and I, when we were thinking of the kind of business we wanted to create and what would be our niche and what are we most passionate about we were passionate about. Communication that inspires change that actually leads to actions and not just words for the sake of it. And and we thought communi good communication is as relevant to traditional organization as it is to the next sort of SaaS or the startup that's, that's, coming up. So it's sort of timeless. It goes across boundaries around the world. So that's kind of was the essence of bricks and clicks. But we looked at everything that we had done and we took out the pieces that we thought we were very good at, that we were most passionate about, that we thought we can make a difference in. So whether it was narrative or messaging, whether it was helping businesses differentiate themselves, whether it was helping businesses align themselves to a new strategy or driving change. I mean, that's, we, both have done a ton of work in change communication and change the. At the essence, we are all about driving change that inspires action and how effective communication can do that. That's what in the essence, bricks and Clicks is about. So in three years of our existence, we've been working with sort of essentially. Two or three segments of the business world. So there's large enterprises where we come from, both of us, and we could work with them on change projects, right when they've got a, change transformation program going on, which a lot of businesses are. They've got great teams that are managing the change, but very often they miss out on a big part of change communication, which is different than managing change or, you know, doing the basics, working with a change manager. So change communication is one part of the puzzle, which we absolutely love and we are working on. The second is mid-size businesses where we essentially are the team that they don't have some midsize businesses that are business for a communications. Their story, right? That can help them get the basics right of the message, the, calendar, the thinking, the, clarity, equipping their leaders, helping them tell their story to all stakeholders. Starting to think of an employer brand. So we took all of these things and many mid-size businesses with fantastic business models essentially have lean teams and they don't really have the luxury of having big communications teams, someone who would do external, internal, all of that. They need it and they need it now to be working with mid-size businesses that are scaling. They are from technology world and and, and they are growing and we help them sharpen their story, craft their story in many cases, and help them take it to all stakeholders, including internal, including aligning their leadership. And that's very exciting. So it's the two of us. We, for our clients, what they see is what they get. That's us. So we do the strategy, we do the delivery. and it's absolutely amazing.

Adrian: 28:38

And I think that's, that's, it's perfect that, you know, without skipping over that statement of what they see is what they get. And that's what it is about running what I call a genuine business. And you know, Jyoti, you are such a genuine person. The fact that you're working with leadership and you're working in that area of change to make, you are the most perfect person to be doing. And I'm sure Natalie is much the same thank you for joining me today, sharing your experiences. As I said, we are gonna catch up again on another podcast, and we're gonna delve into some of those skills that are required because leadership and change, they, they go hand in glove. Where we need to develop those skills in change, communication and leadership and how we take employees on that journey is just so very important. So, Thanks for the work that you're, doing. Thanks for your volunteer work that you're doing to Jyoti and enjoy Bali and the conference.

Jyoti: 29:37

I will and I can't wait to see you. I know we will speak before or after, but I am so looking forward to being an audience in your session, Adrian and I. Absolutely. You know, it's, it's a pleasure to be here, to be speaking with you, but I absolutely love. The work that you do at CSCE along with Sia and I think the, content, the thinking the tools that you equip communication professionals and leaders with is outstanding. So well done, so much to learn.

Adrian: 30:05

It is that community, isn't it? I mean, the, I I've always said the internal comms community is so giving and like you, I'm, I'm very happy to be part of that community, and I know you are. And we, we will keep growing this, this community, and growing our skills together. So thank you again, Jyoti and I look forward to connecting very shortly again. That's it for today's podcast. It's so quick how we run out of time. Thank you again for everybody joining us. Thanks to Jody and thanks for everybody's work within the communication profession. Look forward to connecting with you next time in a view from the top. I.