Episode 40 - Ulrike Seminati

In this episode we explore the fantastic career trajectory of Zurich-based leadership and communication coach Ulrike Seminati, a former C-level communication advisor. We discuss Ulrike's career journey, from roles in internal communication in the automotive, broadcasting, and chemical industries to becoming a C-level executive in a pharmaceutical company. Ulrike, who is wonderfully humble yet brave, explains her unique approach of combining training and coaching to help leaders communicate more authentically. We also discuss the changing nature of corporate communication, stressing the importance of human-to-human interactions, the value of leaders’ communication authenticity, and the significance of acknowledging individuality in corporate messages.  Ulrike shares some exciting stories from her past, such as planning events in different cultures, taking on some ambitious projects and her tips for working with the C-suite. 

Transcript

Adrian Cropley: 0:16

Well, Hello and welcome to another episode of A View from the Top I'm Adrian Cropley. A View from the Top is a regular podcast from the Center for Strategic Communication Excellence, where I interview some of the world's leading communication professionals as we explore their career journey. Today, I get to travel to one of my favorite places in the world, Zurich, in Switzerland, to talk with a former C level executive in the communications function Ulrike Seminati. I'm so happy, if not a little scared, given she runs her own podcast, among her many talents, of course. After a 27 year career in the corporate sector, working for organizations such as Asino, International, Syngenta, Daimler, to name three of them. And in very diverse organization roles. Ulrika is seen as the go to expert in authentic leadership and impactful communication and works with a variety of clients, training, consulting, and coaching. She's passionate about helping leaders and organizations navigate through change by communicating with impact. confidence, and authenticity. Not to mention, she's an award winning communication professional, a CCA certified coach and consultant, author of a best selling book, and as I said, the host of a popular podcast. So I'm a little nervous, but welcome Ulrike, it's great to be speaking with you.

Ulrike Seminati: 1:45

Yes. Thank you very much for having me. It's a true pleasure,

Adrian Cropley: 1:49

There's always that little nervousness when I say you do your podcast, you'll have to review me after if that's okay.

Ulrike Seminati: 1:55

No problem. With pleasure. I'll do that.

Adrian Cropley: 1:59

it's great to be able to connect with you. What I wanted to do is I do want to finish on what you're doing now. Because I'm absolutely fascinated what you're doing with leaders in organizations, working in culture and change and coaching. people. Often I get some of our listeners that say, what's next for me in my career. And you're somebody that's really turned your expertise working in organizations over many years into what I can see is a great business and something you're really passionate about. So I'm really excited to explore that one with you a little later, but where did it all start for you?

Ulrike Seminati: 2:38

Oh, it started really by coincidence I grew up in Germany and I wanted to leave my country, have an experience abroad wherever, abroad. And by coincidence, I landed in France finally, and I was quitting my home country when I was 24 years old. starting as an assistant for a sub supplier in the automotive industry. And we produced parts for a car that was very well known in Europe by that time, the little smart car, which you

Adrian Cropley: 3:07

Oh, yes, of course.

Ulrike Seminati: 3:10

Exactly. And it was really new in the nineties. Yeah. And so I got a lot of attention from journalists in our little factory. And I was the only person who spoke French basically, because it was a Canadian company, an English speaking Canadian company. And so that's how I stumbled really into the area of corporate communications, starting with media relations. And then external communications in the wider sense and so on. And I did my whole career then in corporate communications, 23 years, basically where I was climbing up the career ladder, really starting from an assistant and finishing, let's say my career, my corporate career by becoming a C level executive of a pharmaceutical group. So completely different industry as well. And I did a lot of intermediate steps. Yeah.

Adrian Cropley: 3:55

Sorry, I was just going to say this. This is really when you look at this from, the podcast is called Review from the Top and it's interesting when you work through the organization right up into that C suite. And I guess you've, you connected with communication quite early. What was the catalyst to connect with communication? What was it that drew you into communication from being an assistant?

Ulrike Seminati: 4:21

I found it just really interesting to sell the product, but not by making sales. In communication, you do that. Basically you sell something to someone, but you do not make sales. It's rather about convincing someone, creating enthusiasm about something or a project or an object. And I found this really fascinating also because I was pretty young in the beginning, at least. I was very passionate about the product and I shared this passion with True Authenticity. And I think this made my success in the early years because I did it really from the bottom of my heart. And so I achieved great results and this is how I started getting into this communication area. And then the other thing was also, I always loved design. I always loved, to do campaigns, for example. So that was something I really liked, the creative aspect behind that. And that's how I went into the, let's say, more classic fields of corporate communication, at least in the first 15 years. And then it started shifting much more towards internal communication, people led communication versus just doing campaigns. And this is where the passion came in that I have today.

Adrian Cropley: 5:31

And I tell you what, it's really nice to hear somebody that said that isn't saying I came from a base of I love writing and therefore I ended up in communication. So thank you for not saying that because it was you found the passion in connecting with people from the sounds of it.

Ulrike Seminati: 5:47

Yeah, absolutely. External communication, I spoke all day. I was representing all day, I welcomed a lot of different journalists around all over the world. So I loved doing that. And this connection and seeing how people shift their opinions. How they really shift from very skeptical sometimes to, wow, this is really exciting. Actually, it's fantastic. And it's fantastic when you see that you can contribute to something like that. And that was for me just this role, which I was holding for six years, the longest role ever for me. I loved it. I really loved it. And that was a fantastic experience. I still draw from today, even if it's now 20 years ago, nearly, or 15 years ago. Yeah. That was quite a while ago.

Adrian Cropley: 6:30

it's really interesting how we do draw from those early experiences and particularly when you've been in an organization a while. I've often shared with the listeners. I worked for Ericsson for many years and because I worked in a big organization, there was always a the different campaigns, the different parts of the organizations, the different roles that you had. And that's what kind of kept you in an organization for a number of years. But you learn something from each of those roles that informs you about where you really want to go and where your passion lies. How did that work for you? Obviously, you worked there for a number of years, what were some of the types of roles that you had in that organization?

Ulrike Seminati: 7:10

I really started, as I said, as an assistant, which became then suddenly somehow the spokesperson of this smaller entity. And then I started to lead what they called a communication center. Very interesting role, very strange role as well, because I was given a huge building of 2000 square meters. And and I was told, do something with that, create a profit center, do communications there because it's called communication center. And he was like, okay. And so I did obviously the whole communications part for the production side. But then I brought in a restaurant, a mechanician for the cars, a seller for the cars. We became a Congress center in parallel and we did a lot of activities. And that was amazing, obviously, because it went beyond the classic corporate communications. Yeah, tasks or roles, which you can find and into something that was this had a lot of freedom to operate, can't coming up with ideas, doing things in my own terms. And I was young by then I got this role when I was 26 years old, 27, something like that. And in the beginning, it was very hard for me to lead people who have. More or less the same age or a few years more, but still I was thinking I was not entitled for that. So I started my career already with an imposter syndrome, but

Adrian Cropley: 8:25

And that happens quite often in that leadership role, doesn't it? Particularly in your early leadership career is you're going, Oh, what gives me the authority to lead these people who are either older or the same age as me? And that imposter syndrome is a real thing, right?

Ulrike Seminati: 8:43

it is, it accompanied me throughout my whole career because I think the more you climb the ladders, the more you also think, am I really good enough for that? And then you realize, yeah, I can handle it. But then the next role comes and you ask this question again and again, it's a repetitive process. At least it was for me.

Adrian Cropley: 9:00

So learning from that, that early, early day, that. Those number of years in that company where you've played a few different roles. What was the motivation to, to move on next? Was it looking for something a bit more challenging, looking for a different role, a sidestep? What was it that drew you to your next role?

Ulrike Seminati: 9:17

Yeah. What I then did actually, I thought, okay, I was really stuck. I had stumbled into corporate communication. If I want to sustain that over my whole career, my whole, the whole lifespan where I will work, I have to do something about it. And so I went back to university in parallel, did a master's degree in marketing management because I thought that positions me a bit broader than just, let's say, communications. And and at the same time I was then changing roles. Why? Also because in my current role, things became repetitive. There was a one generation of the car that was new, that was exciting. And they were just shifting to the second generation. It's typical for the automotive industry. You have a model and then it gets refreshed and then everything, the whole cycle starts again, actually. And I thought, I don't know what to do the whole cycle again. I have done it. I've learned from it. There's nothing new in it for me anymore. I have to do something else. And that's why I left after these six years, even if I really loved that role and yeah, got a new diploma. And I also thought now I have to be a bit more strategic. My first like 10 years I was stumbling into it. Great. It went all well. Now I have to be a bit more strategic. And I didn't have in mind by that time that it will ever reach the C Suite of a company. I really never, ever thought about that or of being of that, that being possible at all. But what I thought is that I want to position myself as someone who really masters all the areas of corporate communications. And as I had done a lot in a lot of external communications and PR media relations, I thought now I have to do well, I bet that online communications was new, so I thought I had to do something about that, which is why I took on my next role, which was a TV station, actually a German French TV station. and they were launching, back then it was brand new to have video streaming on websites. You can't imagine that today anymore. It's

Adrian Cropley: 11:09

It's funny when you look at the context of history and you go now I'm in a role where, technology is coming into play and you don't imagine it now looking back that was such a new thing, right?

Ulrike Seminati: 11:21

Yeah. But I think it's comparable today. You know where you have AI coming up, or I. Other things might also make huge changes, certainly in the future, but that was the same thing. It was like, Oh my God, video streaming, we have to act completely differently. We have now to really use the website of the TV station. It's not longer always all happening on TV. It's also happening online. And there was a big switch. So for me, strategically, that was an interesting time to understand that as well, or to be there. Somehow early on in that sense, because I was leading the online marketing part for that TV station by that time. And then from there, I went into something totally different because we moved. we Moved from a bit more North up in France towards Switzerland. And this is where I took on my first role in Switzerland. And that was chemical industry, agrochemical industry, totally different area. I had no clue about that at all,

Adrian Cropley: 12:18

right? From cars to TVs to chemicals.

Ulrike Seminati: 12:21

Exactly. I saw a completely new area for me, but a company which invested a lot in communications all over internal, external, everything. And so there were a lot of opportunities to evolve, to learn best practices as well. So that was really a great time in that sense. And I had three different roles in that company. So it was changing in average every two years. And that was really interesting. So I went mostly, first of all, I went into really producing all their flagship materials, but there was a good starting point to understand the business better, to know what has to be in this corporate video, it has to be in the annual report, these really core publications that companies do. But from then I went down really into internal comms and I was demanding that I was asking for it. Because I thought I haven't done that yet. I have absolutely to cover internal comms if I want one day, maybe to lead a full corporate comms department somewhere and need to understand that and work in this area. And this is how I landed in internal comms, where still a lot of now today, I think many people told me that our internal comms is so much more rewarding than external comms and I didn't understand it. What can be more rewarding than to be featured by journalists from all over the world? But seriously, in telecoms is rewarding. And because you have this human to human work, that is very important. And you do it all because of the employees, not because of some glossy newspaper article or so. And I thought That was really inspiring to me to try to make a change there in how people feel about working for the company. And that was to root for me to, to what I do today to shape. After all, my own company in this area, in the area of leadership and leadership communication.

Adrian Cropley: 14:03

It's where you found your passion point, right? Is the, as much as I know every internal comms and I come from the same background is you find internal comms and you go, wow, this is, I found home. This is communication for real people. And external is absolutely. Fabulous. And there's, you get the adrenaline pumps with it, but there's something more connected when you find that internal comm space. And you realize that you're affecting people's behaviors, what they do, their outcomes in work. And so I noticed the shift in energy as you started talking about that role, it almost Felt oh, I've now found it. That's, this is the thing that's informing me for my future. Yes.

Ulrike Seminati: 14:49

was like, wow. And I got also, I got a fantastic project and I go, I got it. It's not the right word. My husband would always say, you always under evaluate yourself. Because I claimed it, I nearly invented it. Actually, it sounds odd to say that, but we had an amazing big corporate event that was initially planned for investors and also proposed by investor relations, so a completely different department. And it went so well on the external side that they decided we run it for the headquarter internally. And I was just. Participating and having parts of the project management of that one. But then that was such a huge success that when we had dinner afterwards, and I think this is the point when people really want to make a career. There are these absolute turning moments, which you do not expect and which you do not prepare because. It was a moment where I came nearly last. I was one of the last people coming and there was one, there were two seats empty, one in front of the boss of my boss, which was a difficult person for many in the team, the person they were shying away to speak to and so on. And there was a place directly with my best colleagues, my best buddies. Yeah. I was standing in the door and thinking I can have, I have a really nice evening with my colleague friends, really? Because we're celebrating and it's all cool. Or I sit in front of this guy. Yeah. And I will see what happens. And that's the decision I took. So I was sitting there on my right was my boss, on my left was her peers, so also a level up and in front the other person. And I was sitting there a little bit like an alien because hierarchically. Oh, the person doesn't fit into the club, but it was, that was a turning point for me. Definitely because then they spoke about how great this event was and wow, how would that be if more people could see that internally? And then I said, why don't you roll it out in the 18 territories? That's how they were organized. 18 territories across the globe, 18 events, exactly the same ones in one year. Why don't you do that? And the boss said, because nobody would be as crazy to lead that project. And then I said I do. I would do it.

Adrian Cropley: 16:55

You can feel it coming, bubbling up going, do I say this or do I not say this? But well done.

Ulrike Seminati: 17:01

It was really all in. And I was surprised by myself because that was not the way I was. I was always more, more overthinking and careful. And it just came out of my mouth. I think it was intuitive probably that this is the thing to leave. This is the project. What a wonderful project. And he said, are you serious? Are you clear about how much work that will be? And I said, yes, I am. I will do it. And then he said, Okay. Oh, if you do that, let me think about it, but I think we'll do it. And they managed to get 16 million budget for that, which is enormous for corporate communications. Yeah. A 16 million budget, USD budget to yeah, to roll it out in 18 territories. And I was leading it From the global headquarter perspective, I had to train, I don't know, 600 leaders or so, because they all had to have the same speech in their language in their country, but the same presentation. Culturally, an amazing thing for me to understand how different cultures. addressed exactly the same project or the same thing that they have to roll out, but from a totally different perspective and in a totally different way. The Japanese prepare six months in ahead and they're already scared out and freaking out six months in ahead of time. And the Brazilians, I came there the evening before the event, they hadn't even started building anything. They did that overnight and it was amazing. Both events were amazing, but done in, in such different ways. It's just incredible. And the end result was somehow the same, the quality and everything that was delivered and everything in between. And so for me, that was really interesting to work on that level with cultures, really from all over the globe. I think that was probably my biggest learning.

Adrian Cropley: 18:39

It amazing what you learn when you work with the different cultures globally? And you just, you don't really get it till you do it. And then when you step into it and you say, Oh my gosh, everybody deals with this very differently. And I just, I was smiling as you're talking about the Brazilians, cause it was almost going in my head They probably had nothing ready, and they did it all the last minute, but they pulled it off, and they pulled it off really well and to come across cultures that do that, and the cultures that are much more organized and planned, and all of, we're not ready, 10 weeks out, it's not going to work, so what a great learning for you.

Ulrike Seminati: 19:14

Yeah, absolutely. No, that was fantastic. I got to know the world. And I got this understanding that there are obviously a lot of differences, but at the core, we are always the same. At the core, you address yourself to human beings with nearly the same needs. It's just the codes are different, how it's going to be addressed. But at the end it's, there's a lot of commonalities. And I think this is the beauty in working on a global level to experience that every day. I love that very much on an international level to always have this experience of somehow we are community, even if we are so different. And I think that is the beauty of working in big corporations.

Adrian Cropley: 19:52

Is that the project that kind of springboarded you up into the C suite? Did they went, Oh my gosh, if you can pull this off, we want you to do a lot more?

Ulrike Seminati: 20:01

No, but that allowed me then to head actually a region in that bigger organization. And that was in my first role where I was having all the disciplines of corporate communications in my team. And that was the bridge for that. And I did that only for one year and I don't know, seven or eight months or so, less than two years. And I got headhunted for the C level position. And that was really amazing because I got this call and the person explained to me that it's a C level role, it's chief corporate communications officer for a pharmaceutical group. And I thought, Are they calling the right person? Are they sure that it's the right number? For sure. I sent you the description, job description, and I was going through that and I realized all the bullet points they have listed, I have actually real experience in that. And this is, was the moment for me where I realized it sounds maybe odd, but that was the moment where I realized that I have a really good profile the first time,

Adrian Cropley: 20:58

Is it funny? You've done all of these things and you, and I can tell you're very humble in, in, in all of the things that you've done. And I think your husband was right. Okay. You don't up and sell yourself to the things that you've achieved in it. And I think that's indicative of internal comms. professionals. But now you've taken that experience. You've you're presented with this amazing opportunity. whAt a thrill and an acknowledgement. And I'm glad you looked at it that way.

Ulrike Seminati: 21:29

Yeah, absolutely. And I was obviously freaking out. That was the moment where I thought that, Oh my God, I got the role. Yeah. Okay. I got the role and all the interviews and everything. And I got that role. And I thought, Oh my God, the first C level executive committee meeting, how will that be? It's Oh, But that was a very valuable experience. Obviously, it's a very rewarding experience in the sense that people see you differently afterwards. They think, that you have that strategic thinking. That's the ultimate proof of that somehow. But it was interesting to see an organization from the top and the organization was struggling and they had a very specific business model as well because they were selling their products. only in difficult emerging markets. So that was really special. So it was Iraq, Ukraine, Saudi Arabia, small countries like El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, all the countries on the whole West Africa, for example, like Ivory Coast or Burkina Faso, these countries where other pharmaceutical companies, they don't bother at all about them. And we had this model to go into these countries and that was very interesting for me also to somehow cover the blind spots on the globe on an international level, because then I came again in touch with new cultures I have never met before. But on the other side, it gave me this helicopter view, which you get only when you're really at the top. And when you hear how your CEO is really thinking about things, because things behind closed doors in an executive committee meeting are set just differently than they will ever set in other settings. And that was for me, so insightful to understand. Also, the human struggle of C-Level people, which have to take hard decisions of restructuring or relocation, which we had to do, for example, and how they handle that and how different characters handle this kind of situation. Those who really decide on that and who really cut the budget for a production site and who say, okay, we have to close that down, these kinds of things. And I realized in this, that, that was for me that the moment where I You can do whatever campaigns here as a corporate communications lead, you can do whatever, CEO videos, I don't know what, all the different things that we usually do. But the really important thing is that you onboard the leaders personally, not only me, but ideally also the CEO or the COO. These deliberate roles, personally to the change, you need to speak to them. It's not about just having a short meeting and sending them then an FAQ, which they have to follow exactly like that towards their teams. People can't do that. And that's still what I'm working on today a lot. It's not about just embracing and forcing people to embrace the corporate message because it's, Mentally, emotionally, they can't do that because they are different people. So they have a different position, a different perspective, and we need much more help the individual to bring in their individual view, to be enrolled in projects, in ideas, in change particularly so that they can then be really authentic leaders. And that was for me, this turning point of, I want to do something about that. And as long as I'm in an organization, I will never be seen as the expert for that. That I have to get. Out of the organization to come in as an external expert, because then people listen to you paradoxically much more than when you're in the organization.

Adrian Cropley: 24:46

And it's funny how that does it. My first consulting gig when I left. the corporate world when I can I finished as the head of communication and my first job was back in the same organization consulting and the conversation was so different. It was suddenly, and I don't know whether it's because now we're paying you as an external rather than internal or suddenly you're no longer an internal. Therefore you have credibility or more credibility. It's they ignored you before, but it's suddenly it's a different relationship, isn't it?

Ulrike Seminati: 25:18

Yeah, absolutely. And it's strange actually, but it's like that. If people ask me advice because they think I have the answer and I always think I don't have more, but still I have the answer a bit more today, obviously, because I was practicing much more of these consulting gigs and all of that for sure, but. At the end, in Fine, I don't have really more answers than I had in the past where I was already an expert on certain fields as well. But nevermind, then my advice would have been seen more as an opinion. As today, if I give an advice it's seen like something that is it. That's the thing. That's the truth. And it's really funny, the perception that people have from external experts versus the people they work with every day, or they have at hand, actually, in their organization. And they struggle so often to come up with ideas, to bring these ideas to life. And because nobody listens and some ideas I think are really great.

Adrian Cropley: 26:13

I have to share this with you because it's quite Humorous and you've probably done this yourself is I've had clients before, somebody within the comms department said, Could you just come in? This is what we want to do. I want to get you in front of the executive. And I really want you to tell them what We want to achieve and they've come up with the ideas, they've come up with, I've coached them a little bit on it, but just the fact that they said, if I get you in, they'll listen to you. So I just want you to say, these are the things that we want to do. And I've done it a couple of times with clients that I've just gone in and they've gone, yeah, that's a great idea. And they went, if we'd have done that, they wouldn't have listened. And I said, it's ironic, isn't it?

Ulrike Seminati: 26:56

It is, but I know that situation too, it's exactly the same thing. You come in, you tell the people the same thing because they ask you to do those who hire you at the end would like to get this message across. So tell our leaders please, that they have to, I don't know, lead as a coach. And when I didn't suddenly say that, it's yeah, that's the leadership of the future. And the poor internal people were really struggling with getting dismissed is true for three years maybe already or more.

Adrian Cropley: 27:25

I understand then why you've gone into coaching in your organization. So tell me a little bit about your company organization. And then I'm gonna you don't mind me flip flopping. I'm going to go back a little bit and talk about some of the lessons you learned at leading in an organization. But tell me a little bit more about your company and what you do now because coaching is a big part of it.

Ulrike Seminati: 27:47

Yeah, coaching is a big part of it. I do a lot of trainings. I like to combine both because I think this is really powerful. Because when you do a bit of training first people have a ground to work on. And during the training, they realize where they have their development areas and where they can do better. And when I then use coaching one on one sessions. In between or in the middle, halfway through to two training episodes, let's say then they really know what they want to work on in a one on one setting. They also admit that because the more you work with leaders on higher levels of them, the higher they are in the organization, the less obviously they will admit that they need to be better in communication, that they are not communicating with impact, that they are maybe not trusted leaders, that they're not authentic at work, or whatever the issue is, that they cannot get their change through, their change projects, their transformation projects. And when you do then this in the one on one, I always, I'm always, it's always surprising because sometimes In the trainings, those who speak up less or least, or those who I really have to call that they also share their learning from the previous exercise, for example, are then the ones who really have a lot to say in one on one settings, because they just didn't want to share it in front of the group, but they are very aware then of that. What they want to achieve and where they can act upon a lot of questions. And you can feel that they want more information that they want to get help to find their own solutions. And that is, that's very interesting. So I think working with both sides is ideal because you get those who are very outspoken, who benefit sometimes more from a training than some others. And you have the opposite way where in the one on one sessions, some people really benefit a lot because they don't want to share and put on the table, all their weaknesses and vulnerabilities. But they are very open to do that in a one on one setting. And that's extremely beneficial for people, I think, to just admit that there's something where they can act upon because they're not perfect. I think that is the most difficult thing for many senior leaders at least.

Adrian Cropley: 29:47

And I think they need to be a bit vulnerable, don't they? So having them in that coaching environment means that they can be a little bit vulnerable to receive the coaching, be a little bit more open to do it. Because I, I think we all know as being in leadership roles ourselves is there's a bit of a pressure there to say we have to be perceived as being good at everything that we do. And it's only really great leaders that show that vulnerability to their teams, but they've also got to manage their reputation and the, the way they're perceived. So it is, it's like coaching is such an, insightful environment. I don't want, I can't find the word, a humble environment that you're in with a leader, right?

Ulrike Seminati: 30:28

Yeah. And I always work on two dimensions and I'm working always on the I dimension and the we dimension, or you can also call it the being and the doing. Because in many trainings, people work a lot on the doing and many leaders, senior leaders, especially had tons of trainings on the doing, on methods and skills and how to apply that. But they have never, ever had a chance really to understand who they are, how they relate to these things, really. And also that this is valuable how they relate, that there's not just the one way you have to apply this leadership behavior, because that's what we have in our corporate culture. And that's the best practice. You have to embrace these four values perfectly. You have to role model these. That's what leaders are told in most organizations. Not maybe that directly, but that's what they hear. That's what they feel. And I'm working a lot on the part like, okay, you are individual, your values are not the four values of the company and they will never be, but you also have values, for example. So let's find out what you actually are interested in, what's in it for you in this transformational project here, which is disruptive in your team, for example, and you might hate it. At first glance, but there's something in it for you if you really dig deeper and what is that personally and to bring people to a personal level where they understand this is how I am this is how I feel feeling also one of these things not really addressed enough in my opinion,

Adrian Cropley: 31:53

Yeah. I agree. I agree.

Ulrike Seminati: 31:55

And that's the point. This is then where leaders really start understanding. Aha. So first of all, I have to help myself to enroll myself. Then only I can really enroll my team. Then I can be a good communicator as a leader because most directly jump into, I have to communicate to my team.

Adrian Cropley: 32:16

Absolutely powerful. Some of the work that you are, you're doing now, as we're getting to the end of our. Time on a view from the top, and I would really want to explore. And in fact, we're going to we're going to explore and do a vantage point to podcast with you. And we're going to unpack this area of the stuff that you are doing now. Before we finish this, though, what are some of the lessons you would like to share with communication professionals about getting ahead in their career, particularly if they're at that top? end of their career where they are on the executive and what's some of the lessons you learned working with leaders on the executive level? What's some of the tips you'd share with communication professionals about how they add their value maybe?

Ulrike Seminati: 32:59

I think they need to differentiate more on what corporate communications is for, because usually we think as corporate communicators, we are so much into our roles, into shaping the famous key messages and, what channels we use. Then there's a kind of structure which we reuse again and again. And that Always implies that we try to get approval for a one size fits all message. And at the end, often this gets so diluted. We also know all of that experience, that any bold statements are wiped out. Yeah. Because so many people had to say something about that. And I would really encourage corporate communications people, especially if they're at the top, to do a bit less in terms of a glossy campaigns or nice visuals, for example, all of these things, and to do much more human to human. channel programs where you have a setting where you train your leaders potentially to speak on something. And with training, I don't mean brainwashing them. It's exactly the opposite, helping them to be authentic in their messaging. And that is different from leader to leader, more courage for individuality. And bringing this also then to your CEO to make them understand your performance, because you have to apply different language with people who are on the very top, your performance of the company, the bottom line result will be different if we target or if we customize the messages much more of what we do. And we do that as a much more work, it's more fragmented for sure. But. Let's put aside some of these very overall big campaigns, which we run across the whole company and make benefit leaders to help them to communicate from human to human. Because I think that is a shift in corporate communications that needs to happen, especially with digitalization because people long for human contacts much more, especially with hybrid working. So I think. Especially with AI as well. So the human to human side becomes just much more valuable, much more special, nearly exclusive in some areas. And I think corporate communications people have to make the shift and go towards that direction. And I think that is the future.

Adrian Cropley: 35:12

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. It's really much more around that connection with people and getting in there with the leaders and building those relationships and making them better communication by being authentic. Great tips. I really appreciate it. I can't believe we're out of time already. But I I know we're going to be interviewing you for Vantage Point. So we'll be able to unpack this. this area of leadership even more. So thank you for joining me on an episode on this episode of a view from the top.

Ulrike Seminati: 35:44

Yes. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure, Adrian, to be with you.

Adrian Cropley: 35:47

I could just spend hours with Ulrike, but thank you again for joining me. And thanks everyone for joining us on this latest episode of a view from the top and look forward to. tuning in and connecting with you next time.