Pantsuits and Lawsuits with Attorneys General Kris Mayes and Dana Nessel

Breeze, Trees, and Sea Lampreys: America's Conservation Crisis

• Attorneys General Kris Mayes & Dana Nessel • Season 1 • Episode 5

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Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel and Arizona Attorney General Kris Mayes unite to sound the alarm on the environmental crisis unfolding across America. From the Grand Canyon to the Great Lakes, our national treasures are under unprecedented threat as the Trump administration slashes funding, terminates Park Service employees, and rolls back critical environmental protections.

The attorneys general reveal the shocking reality behind recent cuts – multiple-hour wait times at national parks, visitor centers forced to close, and safety concerns mounting as essential personnel disappear. "Who is it that wants to see our national parks defunded?" Nessel asks, highlighting the bewildering nature of these attacks on beloved public spaces that transcend political divides.

Environmental experts Lisa Wozniak of Michigan League of Conservation Voters and Vania Guevara of Chispa Arizona join the conversation, bringing frontline perspectives on how these federal actions directly harm local communities and ecosystems. Wozniak details the terrifying spread of invasive sea lamprey in the Great Lakes, while Guevara shares how extreme heat in Arizona claimed over 1,000 lives last year – both problems exacerbated by weakened environmental agencies.

The discussion delves into the economic devastation facing rural communities dependent on park tourism, the disproportionate impacts on communities of color, and the strategic communication needed to build environmental consensus across political lines. Despite the federal retreat from climate leadership exemplified by the Paris Climate Accord withdrawal, the conversation offers hope through state-level action and grassroots advocacy.

Join these powerful women leaders as they chart a path forward for environmental protection when Washington won't lead. Whether you're concerned about public lands, climate justice, or the economic health of your community, this episode delivers crucial insights into one of today's most urgent battles.

Subscribe now and join the conversation about how we can protect our natural heritage for future generations regardless of political headwinds.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

Hello podcast listeners. I'm Michigan Attorney General, Dana Nessel, here with my fellow AG from Arizona Kris Mayes, and today we're diving into some issues that are affecting our nation, all the way from the Grand Canyon to the Great Lakes.

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

We're here to break it all down and make sure you have the information you need to stay in the know. Let's get into it. This is Pantsuits and Lawsuits. Trump and his administration have spent the last month or so doing a number of pretty awful things. They've been systematically deconstructing our federal government, sacking tens of thousands of employees. They've been trying to claw back congressionally negotiated funding for important programming and generally sowing chaos and confusion.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

Yeah, and this is obviously so bad for workers. It's bad for our communities in our states, all around our country. So today we really want to highlight just how bad this is for the environment, because, of course, our ecosystems are so delicate you know they don't care about politics and they can really be harmed by even the smallest changes, you know. And whether you're rolling back protections when we're already on a ticking clock, the anti-science bent that we're seeing, really no discernment of any kind, just pure censorship and more wide ranging than you might think in terms of the impact, whether it's the economy, public health or public safety, it is all bad.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

What is really perplexing to me is that any of these national parks I mean, it's just bewildering to me. Who is it that wants to see our national parks defunded, so much so that it's almost impossible to get in or to enjoyably utilize the parks because they're not properly maintained and even something like the public bathrooms not being maintained? I mean, who wants to go to a you know, a national park where you know that's an issue, or whether it's just too dangerous, honestly, to go into the park because it's not properly maintained or because it's not properly staffed?

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

Well, I think that's the point. Nobody is, Dana, and you're absolutely right. I mean, you know, here in Arizona, folks across the political spectrum use our national parks. We have so many sportsmen who use our forests. This is a part of who we are as Americans is the ability to access these public lands, whether it's a park or it's a wilderness. People forget. You know a lot of folks out here who love to hunt and fish rely on having well-maintained trails and trail systems to access these public lands to go out and hunt, and so this is not going to go over well with a whole bunch of people, including a lot of Republicans, out here.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

I got to say that the Grand Canyon. Right, you are the Grand Canyon state, we are People come from. It's not that they come from all over the United States, which of course they do, they come from all over the world to see this. And I remember the first time that I saw the Grand Canyon and I almost didn't believe it was real, because it is so phenomenal to behold. It's breathtaking. You literally can't catch your breath when you're looking at it. With the absolute destruction of the National Park Service, what is this going to mean to the economy of Arizona.

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

It's huge, yeah, and we're already seeing the impacts of these cuts to the National Park Service and the terminations of park employees. The wait time outside of the Grand Canyon National Park is we've heard upwards of multiple hours just to get into the park. A county supervisor up there told me that they're very worried about a water pipeline that is in the middle of being constructed. That provides water for when you know, especially during peak tourism times, and we're about to be on that here, and it's not just the Grand Canyon.

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

It's also Saguaro National Park. We also have multiple gorgeous national parks and wildernesses here in Arizona, and yet Donald Trump and Elon Musk are rampaging through the Park Service and the Forest Service and making these incredibly ridiculous and ill-timed cuts with no reasoning whatsoever. I'm worried about safety. You know. One of the things that our park rangers do is make sure that our campgrounds are safe and if something happens, you know if there's a medical emergency that we can, you know, get to people quickly. People forget about that. There's a public safety aspect to making sure that we have enough staffing at these national parks. And with regard to the Saguaro National Park, which is in the southern part of Arizona also beautiful, Dana, when you make it down here, you know they've already had to close the visitor center. You know, on one day a week. and

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

And the. Here's the other point about our park system, which are magnificent and unparalleled across the world. Right is, just think about the knock on effects to our economy of our parks being debilitated, because you think about all of the folks who have small businesses who operate in or around or associated with the national park. Think about Grand Canyon. You know we have um tour guides who take people on you know river, river tours, you know, really, whitewater river rafting. It's a huge thing right at various parts, on various parts of the Colorado River, which flows through the Grand Canyon, and if things are not operating adequately in the Grand Canyon, are people going to be able to or want to go on these river trips? And so there's all of these sort of knock on economic effects that are associated with these cuts that are being made by Trump that I think are going to start to manifest and materialize.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

Yeah, and that is a significant concern for us in Michigan. Sleeping Bear Dunes, which honestly it's one of the most beautiful and picturesque things that you'll ever see, these amazing sand dunes that are off of Lake Michigan, and again it almost seems like it's not real. It's so beautiful. And same thing with Pictured Rocks, which is in our upper peninsula it's unimaginable until the moment that you're there and then you're just in awe of it. But you have so many businesses, whether they're restaurants, whether they're motels or hotels, whether, as you indicated, the tour guides, you have whole economies that are sustained off of people attending in large numbers, um, incredible parks. So it's not just that you are not saving money by laying off members of the park service.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

There are only people sometimes who are in those areas to go to that national park. And if, well, even if there is the reputation of like hey, don't go to this national park because you know you'll never get in, and if you is the reputation of like hey, don't go to this national park because you know you'll never get in, and if you do, the place is kind of a disaster. It's not safe for you or your family to go in there, or it's just you know it's just a mess. It's not an enjoyable experience. You are going to have a significant drop off in the number of people who are going and it's going to ripple across the economy and it's going to be devastating to both our states.

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

Yeah, I think that's a really good point, and a lot of these communities are in rural Arizona I assume rural Michigan as well which are already hurting economically.

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

These are communities that already, in a lot of cases, feel left behind by our economy and by leadership.

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

And you know, I think about a town like called Williams, Arizona, which is sort of one of the gateways to the Grand Canyon, and any of these sort of gateway communities that are in rural Arizona or rural Michigan that are around the parks that are already hurting but they managed to keep going by virtue of the tourism traffic to our parks. So none of that was considered, of course, by Trump and Elon Musk when they were making these hideous decisions to make these cuts.

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

Are they really just setting up privatization? Do they just want to privatize our national parks? And you know, I don't know about you, but I'm not looking forward to the Grand Canyon becoming a theme park or whatever else some private entity would try to make it into. I know Arizonans don't want to see that happen, so for me that's a sort of potential end game that they're after here, which is to deprive our parks and other areas government of resources. Then it looks like they can't exist without privatization, and then try to privatize all of it.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

Yeah, you know, obviously this is supposed to be modeled in many ways after the Elon Musk motto. Which I thought was so clever: that was judged in one of our cases involving the federal employees, the RIFs, the reduction in force cases where the judge said it's fine to move fast, but you can't break things if what you're breaking is the law and you know so.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

The privatized, the models that work with private companies, just don't apply to the government, because the fact is that the government is there to take care of all its people.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

We ought to recognize that and whenever we've seen a plan to do this and I will say this we had privatization in Michigan that the former Republican governor, you know Governor Snyder, who preceded Governor Whitmer experimented with privatization of the food services in the Michigan Department of Corrections, and it only lasted a short period of time, because what they found is that the nutritional values of the meals were so lacking that, of course, it was generating lawsuits and you were actually losing more money than whatever you were saving, because all this company cared about was how much money they could save and it wasn't providing nutritious meals to people that were in their custody and they had to end the whole experiment, and that wasn't even privatizing our prisons, it was just food services within the prisons, and it was an experiment that ended in abject failure because, at the end of the day, your government is supposed to care about feeding people who don't have another way to get their meals.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

Yeah, whereas a job of a company is to care about its bottom line. There are so many places to trim fat in federal government,

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

Absolutely no, no, no. The national parks are not one of them, and environmental protection is not one of them.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

What are we going to do? Because I'll tell you what in Michigan I know they're not going to be cool with like oh, I guess we're just gonna let half as many of the people into our national parks. coming up on summer tourism

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

Yeah. And I think we're barreling toward that So how is this going to go and what

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

are we going to do as states to fill in the gap, which is really hard when we're already struggling in other areas? Joining us for today's discussion, please welcome Lisa Wozniak

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

of Michigan League of Conservation Voters and Vania Guevara of Chispa, Arizona.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

So firstly and Lisa and I have known each other for a while let's start by talking about this How's my hair

Lisa Wozniak:

Hair looks fabulous,

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

Does it? Good, all right, because you know that's the most important thing to me.

Lisa Wozniak:

I was just thinking it's a pleasure to be on with all these women with great hair. I know right.

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

Great hair and great minds.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

You don't get that with the Joe Rogan podcast. So if you could, just for both you guys, if you could tell us a little bit about the work that your organizations do, and let's start with you, Lisa.

Lisa Wozniak:

Sure, I am privileged to run the Michigan League of Conservation Voters. Here in Michigan, we are literally defined by the water that surrounds us. 20% of the Earth's surface water right is right here in our midst. It surrounds us, it envelops us and it defines us.

Lisa Wozniak:

So, no matter what we work on, we work on those issues through a water lens and we have also been the place where we've had some really significant things happen in this state that have called put the red alerts up for the rest of the country around the importance of protection our water. Whether it's the contamination of PFAS in our waterways, whether it's going back a few decades to the mercury contamination that was coming out of, notably coal plants, that's heavy metal goes straight up, comes straight back down, goes right into the water right into the fish and then right into human bodies. Or, frankly, the horrible thing that happened in Flint, Michigan with the lead contamination right from old infrastructure and pipes, and that translates also to climate change.

Lisa Wozniak:

Everything in Michigan is seen through that water lens and people care deeply. Whether you're Republican, democrat or independent, people care deeply about the water that they drink, the health of their children, their ability to recreate and fish and be outside in this beautiful place that we get to call home. One of the things I think we're best known for is our accountability. We hold the whole suite of elected officials at our state level accountable, so that includes the governor, the state legislature, the secretary of state and, yes, indeed, the attorney general.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

Just so that AG Mayes knows, what is my score on environmental issues?

Lisa Wozniak:

Gee, let me think about this.

Lisa Wozniak:

Oh, it's a hundred percent!

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

Wow I'm impressed, Dana, although I have to say I don't think I get a score out here.

Vania Guevara:

I don't think we score the AG, but I want to make sure that happens because you're probably our biggest champion in the state, I must say, for environmental justice. I guess she gives me hope, honestly, with everything going on. Well, bienvenida, buenos dias, good morning. My name is Vania Guevara. I'm the advocacy and political director with Chispa Arizona. At Chispa Arizona, we organize our Latinx communities to grow political power and civic engagement for environmental justice and we are a program of the League of Conservation Voters.

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

Vania, I've obviously worked closely with you and with Chispa in the past. I'm a huge fan of Chispa and everything that you guys have accomplished over the years in Arizona. You know you spoke to the utility issue out here A lot. You know a lot of the battles have been about trying to get our utilities to invest more in renewable energy and energy efficiency and trying to make sure that, as coal plants are shut down, our indigenous communities are treated fairly. But what is the sort of overarching objective of your organization?

Vania Guevara:

I think for us, the desert is a very sacred place and we can refer to that, going back to the original stewards of the land.

Vania Guevara:

And the current stewards of the land and I know we're deeply motivated and inspired by our indigenous relatives are the tribes who's, you know, at the forefront at a lot of these fights, who are facing environmental justice, access to public lands, and so I think for us, given the sanctity of the earth and I know for me personally, I've sort of been on my own personal mission and journey to reconnect with my indigeneity and how much of a not only a reciprocal relationship that us as humans have or should have with nature, but how much of us is in nature and vice versa Our communities are disproportionately impacted by climate change and the quality of air that we're breathing, and you know, heat is an extreme, I mean extreme heat is a huge problem in our communities, and so just seeing the disparity and honestly, just I've had the privilege of traveling to el salvador which is where my, my family is from, um traveling throughout colombia, mexico, and one thing that's constant in latin america is public spaces that bring people together with trees and access to nature, and I genuinely feel like an increased quality of life or a sense of self when I'm outside.

Vania Guevara:

I want to bring that to Phoenix and to the communities in Arizona to also experience being outdoors and being connected to nature in a beautiful and sacred way.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

So I don't know if you're both aware of this or not, but we have a new president and not the most environmentally friendly president in American history and has taken quite a few actions, many of which, of course, ag Mays and I have been hotly contesting in a number of different court proceedings. But how has the Trump administration, given how, I would say, anti-environment they are, given how you have a president that doesn't believe in climate change? I mean, how is that affecting all of the hard work that both of you have done over the course of so many years?

Lisa Wozniak:

Well, yeah, I'd be happy to step in on this, and first I want to thank both of you, Attorney General Mayes and Attorney General Nessel, for your incredible work and actually pushing back on this administration, and it has it's been very, very important. So you have given a lot of people a lot of energy and enthusiasm to get in this fight to protect the things that they care about most. This fight to protect the things that they care about most. So you are true leaders in this.

Lisa Wozniak:

I'll speak about this from a perspective of the Great Lakes region and Michigan in particular, since that is where I sit. But the cuts to things like the EPA, noaa, the US Fish and Wildlife Service, the parks this is all going to have tremendous impact on the places that we care about most and, frankly, on public health. I don't know that the nation really understands and that's part of this challenge how important the work of the Environmental Protection Agency is, but it is protecting us from toxins in our air, our land and our water. The work of NOAA is deeply embedded in things like making sure that our Great Lakes are not fully infested with something that's called sea lamprey, which can be devastating. Have you ever seen a picture of these things. They're horrifying.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

I talk about sea lamprey. Like, obviously, I'm obsessed with sea lamprey so I just sent AG Mayes a picture not too long ago, just so that she would know what they look like, yeah,

Lisa Wozniak:

they are quite something, and if any folks that are listening, they should go and Google this and take a look at them, because they are just horrible and they are devastating. And during the COVID epidemic, we had to pause some of the work that was being done to control them and the impact was astounding. They tripled in number and the stats on this is that each lamprey, for example, eats 40 pounds of fish over its two to three year lifespan and each female has a hundred thousand babies. And the impact on this in the Great Lakes is specifically related to fisheries right Commercial and recreational. And it will just change the entire ecosystem of the Great Lakes.

Lisa Wozniak:

So I have found that people that actually are connected to recreational and commercial fisheries both Democrats, republicans and independents are highly concerned about this. In addition, frankly, we have what are called areas of concern in the Great Lakes right, these are highly toxic areas A lot of them in the Great Lakes region, because we have a ton of manufacturing here, and those areas of concern are actually monitored and cared for and cleaned up by things like the Great Lakes Restoration Initiative. Much of that is done in concert with our friends at the EPA. Okay, these things are all under threat right now, and again I want to underscore it's it is our great outdoors, it's our natural places, it is, frankly, public health, it's the again, it's the air that we breathe, the water that we drink and the ability to be in our natural world without feeling like you're going to be poisoned, and so these are real impacts coming from the Trump administration right now.

Vania Guevara:

Yeah, I definitely plus one to everything you've just said, Lisa, and then I wanted to mention that also unfortunately for communities of color. I don't want to say this isn't new, but we're constantly under attack. Our movement in environmental justice is an intersectional one.

Vania Guevara:

So immigration, community safety and all of those lanes we're constantly having to fight for better quality of air or access to education or just having an overall sense of safety, but also balance, demanding more from our elected officials regardless of political party, and I don't have to say that for AG Mayes. she's on top of it, she's very proactive and amazing, and we just need more champions like her, I think, in order for us to get the things that we need to address a lot of these issues.

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

So both of you have raised, at least tangentially, if not directly, an issue that I am really interested in, which is, you know, we know, that climate change obviously is a real thing. I think, you know, the majority of Arizonans believe that our climate is changing. In Arizona, out here, we are seeing hotter and hotter summers, summers that last forever and ever. We recorded Arizona recorded 1,030 deaths related to our cause by heat statewide. We know wildfires are becoming more extreme, more dangerous, and yet, you know, in rural parts of our of our states and red parts of our country, we still have this resistance to the even the words climate change, and I think Trump, like took it, you know, required that it be taken out of documents and off of websites, which is totally insane. So one of my, one of the things I'm interested in is how do we talk, how do we, how do we make the connections with rural parts of our state and with Republicans and conservatives about climate change, because I know it's impacting all of us.

Vania Guevara:

I can start with a little bit of how we start talking about it. So one thing that I have found useful, because maybe last legislative session I couldn't say words like transportation equity or environmental justice or climate justice, depending on who was chairing the committee, so I literally had to spell out like, regardless of political party, we believe that everyone deserves access to healthy air.

Vania Guevara:

And I find that the more I start talking about it from like a class perspective versus like race, or like black and brown or white, because sometimes people talk in a very dehumanizing way. So if I bring it.

Vania Guevara:

I'm like hey, you have nieces or daughters or sons. We all want the same things. We want them to have breathable air, we want them to not experience asthma and higher rates than in other communities. That's all we're asking for, like, we just don't want our kids to be experiencing these health issues because of heat, because of the climate, you know. Or if I ask you know you're representing rural Arizona. I may not say climate change, but I'll ask, like do you see patterns or a difference in the time of year and how hot it might be getting? Is it getting hotter longer? Yeah, okay, that's an issue. I won't say climate change, but I literally have to define it or draw this picture about what it might look like, or ask them to think about what it looks like, and I think that's where we find common ground. But it's a lot of work.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

I'm going to ask a different question, but on a very related topic. You know, obviously Trump has pulled out of the Paris Climate Accord again and I guess I'm wondering, for the purposes of your work, like what is the real world impact of this? Obviously, he did it last time he was in office, and then President Biden reentered the accords, reentered the accords, and now we're back in a place where the United States of America is not a part of this really important global agreement. So I guess, Lisa, if you could tell us, what do you think the impact of that is?

Lisa Wozniak:

I think it's tremendous. I think it's not only a really hugely detrimental action in terms of people's trust of us around the globe and seeing us as leaders on issues that matter most and this existential crisis couldn't be higher on the list but I think, fundamentally in terms of how it impacts people in place. This is going to mean that people that are already disproportionately impacted as Vania has said very clearly are going to get hit harder by things like particulate matter and disproportionate impacts of toxins in the air on people's ability to breathe. I think we all know that the people that live in heavily industrialized areas, the proportion of kids and, frankly, other age groups that are on asthma inhalers is just skyrocketing, right. So this is going to have like real life impacts on people all across this country, and I don't think people understand that. I mean we have to take it down to that level to have people understand what clean energy and climate change and taking action in moving us forward really means, and I want to pivot to sew these two questions together about how we talk about this, because I think that, fundamentally, is why the president has been able to move in this direction. He doesn't feel like the general public is there on this issue, which I think is tremendously wrong.

Lisa Wozniak:

But as we talk about these issues, I'll give you an example.

Lisa Wozniak:

In Michigan in 2023, our governor gave her state of the state address and she barely talked about climate and clean energy, and she talked a lot about kitchen table issues.

Lisa Wozniak:

And my colleague turned to me and he said you know what we're going to make climate and clean energy a kitchen table issue and over the course of the next six to seven months, we've talked about economic impact, we talked about, talked about utility rates and we worked in districts all across the state and by the by October of that year, we had the legislature in a place where they passed the Clean Energy and Jobs Act in Michigan, the strongest piece of climate and clean energy legislation is this state has ever seen and put us on track to be one of the five top states in this country addressing this existential challenge, right.

Lisa Wozniak:

So it's really about making sure we're talking about things in ways that connect with people, and I'll also say that people are seeing this. I mean, Attorney General Nessel, you and I saw and breathed the air here in Michigan with the Canadian wildfires, right? People are saying to me don't we have some kind of machine where we could kind of blow this out. I'm like, well, not really, you know, we can't do that. I mean, these are things that people are seeing and feeling and as they start to connect the dots, there will be increasing pressure for our elected officials to take action on this issue.

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

You know, I think it's a huge problem and I think it is causing people to think about this, but we also need people to be willing to take action. We can't have the federal government doing what it's doing right now, which is literally pulling back, and Vania mentioned this, pulling back on the IRA funds and the investment, the Infrastructure Act funds, all of which were designed to try to expand the amount of renewable energy and energy efficiency that our states are getting, to deal with climate change and to deal with extreme heat. I mean, think about the fact, dana, that if they had been successful with the federal funding freeze, which we sued to stop, they were going to defund ratepayer assistance funding like LIHEAP, which helps people survive both in the wintertime in Michigan and in the summertime in Arizona, and that is the level of insanity that we've gotten to with this Trump administration. But you know, and Vania, if you have anything to add to, that.

Vania Guevara:

Yeah, we experienced seasonal depression here too. It's, you know, the Pacific Northwest. It's like, right here people aren't able to go outside because it's so hot. I myself have stopped. I think last summer I counted five people. I had to stop and get a bottle of Gatorade and water because they were passed out. They were experiencing something the heat, they fainted, and so it's seeking help from you know, the government, or just making it more of an issue and ringing the alarm because it's getting hotter and I question like, by the time I pay my mortgage in 30 years and have my house paid off, will I be able to live here? Like, is it going to be sustainable in 30 years for us to be here in the summers?

Lisa Wozniak:

May I add just quickly that you know, as the federal government goes through its machinations right now and tries to decide, sort of like you know where they're going to start and stop on all of this. You know, taking apart of the very protections that people have relied on for so long, States are still going to remain strong and I believe that state and municipal government is the place where action will continue to be taken, whether it's protecting our water or addressing climate change and clean energy, and 70% of the kind of actions and changes that have happened in this country over the last two decades have happened at the state and municipal level. That's not an excuse for the federal level not taking action or taking apart anything that's going on right now, but the state level work is going to be more important than ever and I believe, with leaders like both of you and having leadership at the top of the with governors, we can continue to move forward on these issues, and we must. We absolutely must.

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

Lisa, I totally agree with you and as one of the co-authors of Arizona's Renewable Energy Standard back in 2003, and our Energy Efficiency Standard and our net metering rules encouraging rooftop solar, you're right. I mean. So much of the progress that we have made as a country on climate change and clean energy started starts and ends with the states, but we really do need. We need the federal government to not hurt us in this regard at a minimum. So appreciate you both being on the podcast. This has been a fantastic discussion.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

Thank you so much for both being on and for joining us, and thank you so much for your hard work and your dedication, irrespective of what's happening at the federal government level, we know you guys are both really dedicated to the states that you're serving, so thank you.

Lisa Wozniak:

Well, thank both of you, and what an honor to be on here with all three of you, so let's all keep up the good work.

Vania Guevara:

Likewise Inspired by you all. Thank you so much. Thank you guys.

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

That's all the time we have. Thanks again for listening to Pantsuits and Lawsuits.

Attorney General Dana Nessel:

For more insight into the most pressing legal discussions taking place right now, be sure to subscribe and follow us on social media.

Attorney General Kris Mayes:

Keep your pantsuits pressed and ready and we will see you next time.