2 Poet Laureates Share a Cuppa Tea & Poetry

https://www.leeherrick.com/

In this engaging conversation, Lani Park interviews Lee Herrick, the current Poet Laureate of California. They discuss Herrick's journey as a poet, his experiences with adoption, & the importance of community engagement in his role. Herrick shares insights into his busy schedule, his artistic projects, & the inspirations that have shaped his work. The conversation also includes readings from his latest book, 'In Praise of Late Wonder', which explores themes of identity & belonging. Lani & Lee explore the themes of inspiration, artistic journeys, & the importance of community support. They discuss the joy found in laughter, the challenges of navigating fears in creativity, & the values that guide their lives & writing. The dialogue also touches on identity and heritage, particularly in relation to their experiences as Korean Americans, and concludes with a focus on supporting one another in the artistic community.

Takeaways

• Lee Herrick is the current Poet Laureate of California, appointed in late 2022.
• He has a busy schedule with around 120 events in 2023.
• His poetry often reflects his experiences with adoption and identity.
• Lee's early influences included rap music and notable poets.
• He emphasizes the importance of community engagement in his role as Poet Laureate.Lee enjoys connecting with audiences, regardless of the size of the event. His latest book, 'In Praise of Late Wonder', explores themes of adoption and belonging.
• Lee finds joy in laughter, nature, and spending time with his daughter.
• Lee's inspirations include his father and literary figures like Maxine Hong Kingston. Hearing children laugh can be a profound source of inspiration.
• Travel can broaden perspectives and enhance creativity.
• Experiences of identity can shape one's writing and activism.
• Community support is vital for artists to thrive.

Titles

• Exploring the Life of Poet Laureate Lee Herrick
• The

Big Island Bees


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Transcript

Lani Park (00:02)
Aloha, testing one two, testing one two.

you

Bye.

me see. me go close that.

I'm

Lee Herrick (01:52)
Sorry.

Lani Park (01:55)
Aloha, how are you?

Lee Herrick (01:57)
Hi

Ishal, sorry I was trying to figure this out. How are you?

Lani Park (02:01)
No,

it's okay. It's so wonderful to see your face. yeah. thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it.

Lee Herrick (02:05)
You too, you too. It's so great to see you.

thank you for having me. It's exciting. Yeah.

Lani Park (02:16)
Yeah, I know it is, right? It's my pleasure and honor. So

yeah, today we're here with a wonderful poet. He's been an inspiration to me for years, for decades, and he is the current Poet Laureate of California. He's written numerous books, and this is his latest one in praise of late wonder. Let us welcome the wonderful Lee Herrick. Aloha!

Lee Herrick (02:43)
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

It's great to see you.

Lani Park (02:46)
Yes,

thank you for being here. So how have you been? It's been a while since we caught up.

Lee Herrick (02:52)
Yeah,

I'm doing pretty well, know, given the state of things, but I'm hanging in there and doing well. Yeah, how are you?

Lani Park (02:57)
Yeah.

I'm pretty good. I can't complain. I mean given the state of things like you said, just trying my best to maintain peace and you know some sense of happiness and normalcy through the craziness. so where are you right now? Are you in California? Okay. Sweet.

Lee Herrick (03:12)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes, yes, I'm at home here in Fresno, kind of central California. Yeah.

Lani Park (03:27)
and

tell some listeners who might be new to you about your poet laureateship. That's amazing. Congratulations.

Lee Herrick (03:34)
Yeah,

thank you. Well, yeah, so I'm the California Poet Laureate and I was appointed in late 2022. So my term goes until May of this year. And I'm not sure what's gonna happen after that, but we'll see. But it's been a joy. It's been so wonderful. You know, I'm finding out just really how big California is and...

Lani Park (03:41)
Cheers!

Yeah.

It's pretty

big.

Lee Herrick (04:04)
You know,

yeah, just how much of a love or a need for poetry there is. So many communities and different groups are just really doing wonderful work. And so it's been really joyful. Yeah.

Lani Park (04:12)
Mmm, mm-hmm.

God bless and

I think you are one of the busiest poets I've ever known in my life. I thought I was busy in my heyday I was doing one show every three days or something, but your schedule looked like insane I don't know how you do it So like how many shows are you doing per year or whatever? And how do you manage to find the energy to do all these shows?

Lee Herrick (04:28)
I I was busy in my day. I was in one show every day.

You know, it's a good question. you know, in 2023, I had about 120 events. It was really busy, a lot of travel. Last year there were maybe about 90, so it still felt very busy. you know, I have a wonderful assistant through the California Arts Council who is amazing.

Lani Park (04:47)
you

Yeah.

Well, yeah.

Hmm.

Lee Herrick (05:12)
And I've found ways to conserve energy so that when I'm there, I can be as present as I can and give fully of myself, which I try to do. you know, I feel like it's a, what it is. It's a position of public service. It's a gubernatorial appointment. And so I want to try to honor wherever I am and the people there, whether it's a thousand people or if it's 10 people, you know, so,

Lani Park (05:19)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, it's beautiful.

Lee Herrick (05:42)
But in the meantime, I really try to downshift and mind my energy and get as calm as I can, as quickly as I can. And that kind of helps me. But I've also tried to enjoy each visit as well. I've tried to talk with people and get to know folks and really...

Lani Park (05:49)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

that's good.

Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (06:11)
try to appreciate the communities I visit.

Lani Park (06:13)
Nice. Yeah, and you are you am I correct in saying that you're like the first Korean American Poet Laureate of California? Yay. First Asian American right on. So once upon a time I was the Poet Laureate of Queen so I guess we're both two very overachieving Asians.

Lee Herrick (06:22)
Yeah, first Korean American, first Asian American.

yes, I have some tea. There's some tea for you. I remember that you were in Queens, right? You were the first. How was that?

Lani Park (06:39)
yes, let's cheers before we... What kind of... Yeah.

I'm sure it was very similar to your experience. Just a whirlwind, but a wonderful opportunity to get to know so many different people who love poetry all over, you know, your area. So what kind of tea are you drinking, by the way? Okay, well, cheers. Come back.

Lee Herrick (07:00)
It's just ginger tea, you know, kind of just plain, yeah, cheers. What kind of tea are

you drinking?

Lani Park (07:09)
I am drinking honey chamomile tea, which is one of my favorite. So tell us a little bit about your journey. Like, were you writing poetry from when you were a child? What kind of child were you? Where did you grow up? Can you give us a little bit of background, please?

Lee Herrick (07:26)
Sure, sure. you know, I grew up, I mean, after I was adopted from Korea, I was born in Daejeon and adopted when I was about 10 months old into a white family who were living in the East Bay of California near San Francisco. So, you know, my mom was an artist and sort of a free spirit, a painter and really a wonderful artist. And my dad was a finance guy.

Lani Park (07:31)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Lee Herrick (07:56)
investments and things. So I kind of had two different worlds in that sense. And my sister Holly is also adopted. She's a domestic white adoptee. So, you know, my childhood, on the one hand was filled with a lot of, you know, quote, I don't want to say normal, but you know, typical things. I loved sports. I really played soccer throughout

Lani Park (08:01)
Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (08:24)
my youth and into college. Loved music, loved playing outdoors, riding bikes, things like that. But, you know, at the same time, I was growing increasingly curious about my adoption, race, loss, grief, things like that, coming to terms with my adoption. So I was glad I had outlets, you know, like soccer and music.

Lani Park (08:26)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Lee Herrick (08:54)
and eventually writing to sort of balance things out or give me a place to put some of the emotions that I was feeling, you But I was a pretty active kid, really, and I loved books. Yeah.

Lani Park (09:03)
Yeah.

Right on.

Do you remember when you wrote your first poem?

Lee Herrick (09:20)
I have a memory of writing my first poem, which really was more, I was trying to write rap songs in high school. I mean, you know, that was the time, you know, the mid eighties rap was fairly new to the West coast. So, you know, was really influenced by, by groups like Run DMC and Public Enemy and A Tribe Called Quest.

Lani Park (09:22)
You

wow, I love that. Me too!

Yes. yes.

Lee Herrick (09:49)
But I didn't realize this, but my mom saved this poem that apparently I wrote in third grade. And it was a four line rhyming poem about football that, yeah, I don't remember writing it, but I do remember loving writing early on, just writing little silly rhymes and notes and things like that. But high school is when I really started to

Lani Park (10:01)
I love that she saved it.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Lee Herrick (10:18)
to write first song lyrics. And my first attempt at a real poem was probably in college.

Lani Park (10:23)
Mmm.

nice, right on. And when did you know that this was going to be your path? Was there a certain point where you were like, okay, this is what I'm going to focus on, or did it just organically kind of unfold that way?

Lee Herrick (10:30)
Yeah.

It was pretty organic, I think. It just, you know, in high school I had some great teachers. In college, I really got involved with poetry in terms of the craft and trying to take it more seriously. You know, when I moved to Fresno, where I live now, that was a pretty big turning point too. There's so many great poets here.

Lani Park (10:43)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Lee Herrick (11:11)
You

know, so I remember being asked, you know, are you a poet? You know, I don't know if you felt this, but at first I wasn't sure if I could be or was I one. but after a while, you know, you, it's just stays with you. you love it. It kind of loves you back. and feels good doing it. So,

Lani Park (11:18)
you

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm.

Yeah.

Lee Herrick (11:39)
Yeah, I don't remember one specific instance, but it was sort of an organic, slow build for me, I think. Yeah.

Lani Park (11:45)
Right on.

So I'm going to start with some fun questions before I go into the deeper ones just to keep it light. If you could choose any superpower to have, what would it be and why?

Lee Herrick (11:51)
Okay.

Hmm,

superpower. Well, sort of a silly one, but actually it would be great to have the superpower. You know, if I could abolish or if I could just sort of turn like the racist sort of institutions or the systemic parts of institutions that are racist.

Lani Park (12:07)
Yeah.

Lee Herrick (12:23)
I'm not making this light. just realized that. I would love to just be able to turn that stuff into dust. And it's not that original, but I would love to be able to fly. I love the idea of moving through a cloud or being a little closer to the stars. Just that sort of the feeling, I think, would be something.

Lani Park (12:23)
Mm-hmm. It's okay. It's all good.

Yeah.

Yes! Me too.

Hmm.

Yes.

Lee Herrick (12:51)
surfing or riding a motorcycle or running, you can feel the wind sort of, you're still grounded. I think it would be incredible to feel that in the sky.

Lani Park (12:57)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I agree. Okay, and if you could choose a spirit animal, what do you think your spirit animal, what we call in Hawaii is an amakua, what would you feel is your spirit animal and why?

Lee Herrick (13:12)
Hmm

I don't know, mean, maybe a seagull or something near the ocean. I don't know a lot about seals, but.

Lani Park (13:21)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (13:29)
I just love their slumber. I just love how they recline and just sunbathe. It just looks very peaceful.

Lani Park (13:32)
I know. Relaxing somebody.

Yeah, that's true.

Sweet. And then do you have a favorite meal? Like if you have a go-to meal. I don't think you'd ever be in prison, but if you had a meal that you could choose.

Lee Herrick (13:48)
You

yeah. So, I love like, you know, if I go to a Korean restaurant, I like kimchi, chige. I like, yeah. and you know, maybe it's the Californian in me or, or anybody else, but I, I love like really good tacos. something very fresh and natural and easy. I like foods like that.

Lani Park (14:02)
me too, I go.

Mm-hmm.

yes. Tacos are must.

Yeah, right. Do you have a favorite kind of coffee or tea?

Lee Herrick (14:22)
Yeah.

I don't drink coffee anymore. Well, that's probably just because I drank so much of it. had to, you know, but I love ginger tea and I like like poor tea and green teas. Yeah. Yeah.

Lani Park (14:29)
that's good.

Mmm.

yeah. Right

on. And then do you have a color that you really resonates with you? there?

Lee Herrick (14:52)
Blue, most any shade of blue, yeah. Yeah, all the shades of blue. Yeah.

Lani Park (14:53)
Same.

Right on.

So yeah, both of our book covers are blue. Yes. thank you. I love your book too. my goodness. So I reread it to prepare for this interview and I was crying before page 30 twice. I noticed I was like, my goodness. It was such a beautiful read. So thank you. Yeah.

Lee Herrick (15:05)
Yes, Angel and Hannah, an amazing book. Yes. Yeah.

Noooo

thank you,

Esho. Thank you.

Lani Park (15:28)
So what kind of artistic projects are you currently involved in? I know you're very busy with lots of readings and things, but what's on your radar? What's going on with you right now artistically?

Lee Herrick (15:40)
well, you know, I'm chipping away at some new poems. I just finished a poem that's based on the film Parasite that will, yeah, it'll be in a new anthology that's coming out later this month called Poetry Goes to the Movies. Yeah, so that poem feels pretty good. And I'm, you know, I've got some fun events coming up.

Lani Park (15:44)
Hmm.

really?

Woohoo!

Eww!

Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (16:07)
I'm going to be reading with Maria Shriver next month, which is going to be fun. Yeah, that's going to be so fun. You know, she's actually written a book of poems. It's her first book of poems that's about heartbreak and healing and joy. So, you know, things like that. I'm, you know, I'm, always trying to, work with different community groups on various projects, but,

Lani Park (16:10)
Congratulations.

She has,

Lee Herrick (16:36)
But aside from that, just trying to chip away at new poems.

Lani Park (16:39)
Right on. And that event with Maria Shriver, isn't the guy who wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul also going to be on the lineup? Is that Jack Cantfield or something like that? Cornfield, sorry. he didn't. Oops. OK. I'll cut that out then.

Lee Herrick (16:47)
I don't know that he wrote that. know he's done a lot of work with like Buddhism. I'm not sure. I can't remember who wrote that.

Lani Park (17:05)
So, so what brings you joy?

Lee Herrick (17:05)
magic of editing. You're funny. You're funny.

boy, laughter. I love laughter. You know, I'm a big, big, big standup comedy person. So are you?

Lani Park (17:20)
Hmm. Me too.

Me too, really? I

watch every night almost as much as I can. I'm a little addicted. Yes, I love stand-up comedy.

Lee Herrick (17:31)
Do you? Oh my gosh. Me too. I

love, I watch it, I don't know, four or five times a week and I listen to the podcasts and I've seen a lot of live, you know, comedy shows. that is, well, I mean, depending on one's tastes, right? I do like Tiger Belly with Bobby Lee.

Lani Park (17:50)
what podcast do you recommend? Comedy podcast. I'd love to.

Yeah.

yeah,

Lee Herrick (18:01)
I like,

Lani Park (18:01)
he's funny.

Lee Herrick (18:03)
you know, Bill Burr has a podcast, but, you know, being in nature, like hiking or near any kind of water, to be honest, I mean, the ocean's always best, but I'll take a lake or a river or a creek. You know, I just like being near water. I love good food.

Lani Park (18:05)
Thank you. I'm gonna check them out.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Lee Herrick (18:31)
Being with my daughter gives me great joy. Yeah. thank you. She's 19, which I can't, yeah. Can you believe it? Yeah. You know about parenthood and time flying, but yeah, yeah. It's joyful. So,

Lani Park (18:32)
Yes. God bless. Yeah, you're a great dad. How old is she now? Yeah. She's 19 already? Oh, Lord. Wow. Time flies.

God bless.

So how did you get started on your artistic journey in terms of poetry? Was there a moment that you kind of stuck your foot in the door? How did that start?

Lee Herrick (19:05)
Well, I mean, I guess there are different ways I could think about starting, you know, but I was a big reader when I was a kid. I was reading a lot of books about sports and things like that. I started to write a little bit in college and I guess my first poem that I sent out for publication stands out because

Lani Park (19:10)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (19:33)
I had a lot of fear and, you know, was scared of rejection back then and was way too attached to someone else's opinion as a comment on me personally. So I submitted these poems with a lot of trepidation, but eventually, you know, one of them was published and that felt really good. I...

Lani Park (19:46)
Yeah.

Lee Herrick (20:01)
You know, I started to go to readings. I think that was helpful. Very nervously and I'd sit in the back and if I had the courage, I would ask the author for her, you know, her signature on her book. But, you know, early on I saw poets like Adrienne Rich and I saw Isabel Allende, the Chilean novelist in college. And remember things like that is really formative. It felt, I don't know if you feel this, but it felt.

Lani Park (20:03)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (20:29)
sort of like something was changing in you. But you, I don't know that I felt it at the time, but yeah, very, very formative for me in those ways. So, yeah.

Lani Park (20:31)
Mm-hmm.

Beautiful.

Do you happen to have your book on you by any chance right now or? okay. I would love it if you would share maybe one or two, however many you feel called to read so people can get a taste of your amazing work. I'm gonna pick up my copy. Thank you.

Lee Herrick (20:49)
Mm-hmm, I do. Yeah.

Okay, sure. Sure.

Maybe I'll read a couple. So these are from In Praise of Late Wonder, my newest book, and it's, yeah, there it is. And the first 30 or so pages are a lot about my adoption, and this is the most I've really ever written about my adoption. So I think I'll read a couple of those.

Lani Park (21:14)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Lee Herrick (21:30)
Actually, it's more like the first 45 pages or so, but this is a poem called In Praise of Late Wonder. It's a sonnet.

Lani Park (21:39)
Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (21:44)
In praise of late wonder.

I've wondered what my Korean mother's voice sounded like when I was born. Was it gasp, hiss, or flag in light wind? I've wondered if she kissed me before I became a wind, a white noise in blue sky. I've wondered lately about joy, butterfly, hummingbird, angels so full of bliss.

They almost sing. I imagine some of this relates to the orphan I was, the adopted boys and girls like me, all diaspora and alarm. I've wondered if I'm made of smoke and fire, sometimes clear sky, sometimes quiet storm. I've wondered lately how the acoustic guitar

keeps its secrets, makes me float a little higher. How could I not love looking at the stars?

Lani Park (22:56)
Thank you. I love that poem. Beautiful.

Lee Herrick (22:59)
Thank you. Thank you. And

I think I'll just read. I'll read one more. A lot of the poems in this are I consider them to be prose poems. So I'll read this one called Stars. It's the last poem in this first section. So this is Stars.

Every now and then, I remember that I was born on the other side of the earth, and it makes sense that I love looking up at the stars. It's such a childish thing to do, like climbing trees, stomping in puddles, building forts out of blankets. But there's some strange pull and simple satisfaction from looking at the stars after all these years.

I wonder if a man my age in Korea has the same love. I wonder how the stars relate to a gravitational likelihood that I'll tell my daughter someday about the time in our backyard, swimming in the moonlight, and the world seemed perfect. Or the time I dropped her off at her middle school in Fresno, and before I drove off,

She motioned for me to stop, fogged up the window with her breath and wrote with her finger, I love you dad, with a heart and the world seemed perfect. That's what it is about the stars. Because they are so many millions of miles away and so still, the immediate chaos

or confusion of our lives seems so minor. Even in the daylight, they're right there, imperceptible, but there. Something like faith or belief or the wild idea that a deep kind of joy is there for you, even if you have no idea where it is.

Lani Park (25:19)
Thank you.

Lee Herrick (25:22)
Mmm.

thank you. Thank you so much. I'm glad you like it.

thank you.

Lani Park (25:47)
Yeah, so definitely get this

book if you want to be enchanted and just dream and cry and laugh and feel all the feels

Lee Herrick (25:51)
Thank you. That means a lot to me, you know.

I guess you can cut this out if you want, but I do want to say, and I've told you this on the side, how much the temperature of this water, your first book shaped me and influenced me and inspired me. So it's really, really a treat to be here with you. And it means a lot. So yeah.

Lani Park (26:02)
No.

Aww, thank you.

I feel the same.

thank you. Yes, I've been a fan of yours for decades. think before I even read your book, I found your work in some kind of, you know, they had those poetry newsletter things and I was like, ooh, this is really wonderful. And I saved it. Yeah.

Lee Herrick (26:31)
Uh-huh.

thank you. Thank you.

And yes, when my first book came out, I nervously wrote to you, would you please consider possibly blurbing my book? So I was very grateful. Very grateful. no.

Lani Park (26:41)
Mm-hmm

Are you kidding? Look at you now. You blown up. You're the polar to California life is

long. I'm so grateful. We're still friends Yeah Right on so What are who are some of your biggest inspiration who inspires you?

Lee Herrick (26:55)
Same, same.

Um, you know, my dad is a big influence. He's not a creative writer, but he comes to my readings. Uh, he's a big reader. He's 85 and still doing well. Uh, just really the most giving person I know he he's inspiring for me. I just saw one of my literary hero inspirations recently. Um, Maxi Hong Kingston. just.

Lani Park (27:08)
Hmm.

Aww. Yeah. Aww.

Hmm

Really

epic!

Lee Herrick (27:35)
Yeah, just

love her work and what she does in the world. And I was sitting next to her at a recent memorial service for the writer Jeannie Wakatsuki Houston, who wrote a farewell to Manzanar. So it was really great to see Maxine who...

Lani Park (27:38)
me to.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Lee Herrick (27:56)
is a big inspiration for me. And then, I don't know if this is gonna seem too much like a poet, but, do you ever, I get inspired by hearing kids, like groups of kids laughing. I just love, I love the joy of children. That's inspiring to me too.

Lani Park (27:58)
Yeah.

It's okay.

Aww yeah.

Yeah, me too. I love hearing my daughters laughing when they're getting along and having a good time with each other It's always like music to my ears And what's something nobody would guess by looking at you Lee

Lee Herrick (28:24)
We to spend time with each other.

That's a good sound.

Gosh, that's a good question.

Lani Park (28:41)
You

Lee Herrick (28:42)
I don't know if they would or they wouldn't, but I'm kind of happy because I'm learning how to play the guitar. Well, learning how to play the guitar better, I should say. can already play it a little bit, but I did. Did I tell you that? How did you know that? Oh, it's, I love it. It's kind of tan color. But yeah, always kind of wanted to secretly be in a band. I don't think I have.

Lani Park (28:49)
Right on!

You got an electric, right? I love that. Yeah. What do they look like? What does it look like?

Lee Herrick (29:13)
the chops for it or the nerve. that, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what else people would know or be surprised by. I don't know, I'm not sure.

Lani Park (29:27)
maybe one day you could come to Hawaii, bring your guitar. We could jam and Connie Kapila some songs that we like on the beach. That would be fun, right? I love your poetry. All right, Okay, so what do you wish somebody would have told you at the start of your artistic journey? What would have been helpful?

Lee Herrick (29:31)
I would love that. I would love that. I would love that. I love your songs. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be fun. That'd be fun.

you know...

Part of me thinks that everything just works out as it should. So I'm okay with what I was told and not told. But having said that, I think early on, I think it might've helped me to find ways to work through my fears a little bit, both related to writing and more related to my life and my past. I think fears in my life.

Lani Park (30:00)
So good.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Lee Herrick (30:25)
and from what I've seen in others can really keep us from living our fullest lives or can keep us from the page that's sort of calling to us. I had to work that out or work through that on my own pace as I think we all do to get to the page, but that comes to mind and...

Lani Park (30:33)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (30:51)
And yeah, think if I didn't do an MFA, so I had to learn some of no, I didn't. And I'm OK with that, too. But I definitely cobbled together my understanding of the poetry world and publishing and and things like that. But yeah, I'm grateful for everything I've been given or told.

Lani Park (30:57)
you didn't. That's good. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (31:20)
And quite frankly, even the questions and the things I wasn't ever told, I'm okay with that too. Yeah.

Lani Park (31:20)
Mm-hmm.

Right

on. And do you have any advice for a newbie who wants to maybe go this, you know, follow this path or go on this journey like what you've done?

Lee Herrick (31:38)
Well, I would just say there are a lot of different ways to do it, you know, and whatever works most naturally for you to trust that and to lean into that. mean, it might be education or graduate school, but it also, think there's great value in travel, which is an economic luxury, maybe in time, but even

Lani Park (31:41)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (32:01)
within your town and community, finding places you've never been and it just, I think cultivating a sense of exploration and discovery in life. I think, of course, reading voraciously as much as you can across experience, know, across even genre.

Lani Park (32:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (32:28)
Obviously writing but within that I think just finding one or two people who you trust and you can Be pushed by and inspired by if not a whole community And Don't be afraid to to take risks and It's for the best those those knows that seems so difficult early on I think are very good for building us and

Lani Park (32:38)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (32:58)
shaping us and just being true to yourself. That's really for me what it might come down to is just be true to yourself. Yeah.

Lani Park (33:01)
Hmm.

Yeah, thank you. That's

some good advice. Right on. And what matters most to you,

Lee Herrick (33:17)
I want us all to be okay with what we need and some of what we would like, you know.

Lani Park (33:21)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (33:33)
I think trying my best, but also knowing that I'm flawed and, you know, limited, but just doing my best when and where I can matters to me. A sense of justice in the world is important to me. Yeah, I do.

Lani Park (33:46)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (34:02)
The older I get, the more I value time. And so that's important, how I spend it.

Lani Park (34:07)
Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (34:15)
and things like that, but those are some things that...

Lani Park (34:17)
I don't.

Thank you. And just curious as a, know, from one writer to another, do you have a kind of plan and a schedule when you start out on a project or a book, or do you kind of just go as it flows? do you have a writing discipline? Like every day I do a certain amount. Like how, I'm curious as to what your kind of, you know.

Lee Herrick (34:20)
Mm-hmm.

I'm curious about yours too. I don't know if I can ask you, but you know, yeah, what are you? okay. I wish I could write, you know, with a project in mind. I really want to be that kind of poet and I've tried to do it. I've tried to write a

Lani Park (34:49)
Yeah. I want to hear you first.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Lee Herrick (35:07)
an entire book about a certain thing, because I love history and I love the idea of writing something about some kind of historical poetry. Once I tried to start a whole book of poems on water, different things like that. I love the Pacharkin sonnet. I've tried, I've thought, really, I've thought, I would love to be able to write a whole book of sonnets, but I just can't do it. I don't know why.

Lani Park (35:10)
Mm-hmm.

Ooh.

Me too!

Mmm.

Lee Herrick (35:37)
Maybe I should try in the future. But no, I'm more one just that writes the poems and then they start to take a shape of their own. And then I might try to keep going with that and then see where it goes into another direction. I'm definitely a morning person. So I like to write early in the mornings.

Lani Park (35:55)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Like Toni Morrison.

Lee Herrick (36:05)
Yeah,

love writing in the morning. I used to write outside a lot. But I think, I don't know if it's your experience, but for me, each book is a little different in how it's written in addition to what it's about. But I find myself writing more on my laptop these days. And I don't write every day, but I try to read or at least be thinking about a line every day. And then

Lani Park (36:10)
Mmm, me too.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Lee Herrick (36:34)
You know, once I get into the groove a bit more, I can get some momentum and then I can start writing a little bit more steadily. Yeah. Yeah, how about you?

Lani Park (36:47)
Yeah Well, you know BC before children I think I was a lot more productive with the writing but since they've been born I know I'm a single mother and I have four mouths to feed so my main priority is making sure that those mouths get fed three times a day and they never miss a meal so it's kind of changed my whole life and you know, I have three jobs and so I write around the edges of day and night whenever I can now and it's like

Lee Herrick (36:51)
That was a lot more productive.

Absolutely.

Lani Park (37:13)
not the priority that used to be because feeding the kids and making sure the household is running is the priority. But I really look forward to my golden years when I have more time and I can get back to it. So I feel like this is the time that I need to do all the financial things to make sure they're set and that they don't have to worry. And then later I can go back to enjoying all my little pleasures more.

Lee Herrick (37:19)
I really look forward to my golden years when I have more time and I can get back to it. So I feel like this is the time that I need to do all the financial things to make sure they're set and that, you know, they don't have to...

Yeah, that's incredible. I mean, it's

sort of beautiful and what you've already written and what you've already done as a parent and what you're doing, think it's, that's its own kind of art, you know.

Lani Park (37:52)
you're the best. Come on. Okay, so this is kind of question some people hate and some people actually I don't think a lot of people liked it. But do you what is your legacy? How do you want to be remembered? Do think about things like that or not really?

Lee Herrick (37:54)
Ha ha.

I don't think about it as a writer. mean, as a professor, I am glad or I feel good about certain things I've been able to do. I co-founded a social justice center. I co-founded an academic program for Southeast Asian students, but

Lani Park (38:12)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

You

co-founded a social justice center. You're like, that's pretty amazing. Wow.

Lee Herrick (38:32)
Yeah. Oh, it was.

We're very proud of it. It was about six or seven years in the making, and we just opened last year. But as a writer, I just want to be as quote true. I don't mean factual, but as true to myself and to the poetry as I can. If someone thought I opened a door, that would be nice, but I don't.

Lani Park (38:40)
Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (39:02)
tried to do that for any legacy building purpose. I don't know that I've ever actually done anything for a legacy with that in mind. know, people will ask sometimes about the California poet laureateship and what it feels like to be the first Asian American. And I always say, what I found myself saying is that I wish, and there certainly probably could have been one before me, and I hope there will be many after me.

Lani Park (39:18)
Yeah.

Lee Herrick (39:31)
But I have been able to.

accept that it means something to a lot of people. And if I think about it, it feels good to do that, just to serve in that role. otherwise, I don't know. I don't know.

Lani Park (39:54)
Yeah. And just curious as, you know, since we both have Korean like blood in us, how has your experience been when you've gone to Korea? What is that like for you?

Lee Herrick (40:01)
How has your experience?

Well, the first time I went was in 2001 and the first time I went back was 2001. And at that time I was about 30 and I was only going there because I was on my way to teach in China and I hadn't thought much at that point about going to Korea.

Lani Park (40:11)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (40:33)
but

I just went for a couple of days. It was only maybe two or three days. And then I went again in 2008 for a longer time, about a month. As an adoptee, I'm probably not unique in this, but a lot of adoptee's experiences returning or visiting Korea are sort of wrapped up in loss and our adoption. And so in 2008,

Lani Park (40:42)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (41:03)
I did a birth family search. It was extremely emotional and difficult. Probably took me about a year, I think, to feel a little bit more settled again after that month in Korea searching. At the same time, it felt incredibly settling. It just felt like so much in my life that felt turbulent.

and uncertain and painful. So much of it felt settled after I went just because, know, and not that I saw all of Korea or, but, you know, to know, for example, what it sounded like at 11 p.m. in Seoul or what a restaurant might sound like or how hilly

Lani Park (41:41)
Hmm.

Mmm.

Lee Herrick (42:02)
it is, or just different things felt, it felt good to know those things a little bit. So, you know, even though I didn't find birth family, I found a lot of things that, that I think were very good for me. Yeah, so I hope to go again sooner than later.

Lani Park (42:03)
Yeah, right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (42:29)
And I'll tell you, people talk about this, but when I went back to the city in which I was born, I felt something very visceral and surreal come over me. Yeah, it was really...

Lani Park (42:44)
Mmm. Wow.

Lee Herrick (42:50)
It was just very, it felt very physical and spiritual, but it was pretty powerful.

Lani Park (42:53)
Hmm.

that's interesting.

Lee Herrick (42:58)
Yeah.

Now, do you mind if I ask you what it's like?

Lani Park (43:01)
I don't mind.

Yeah, you know, I went a few times. My first time I was 14 and I went with my grandfather and my mom and it was for a month. And at that time I was very Americanized. You know, my grandfather, he said he was going there because he was dying. He wanted to see everybody. It dramatic trip, but it was very interesting. I think I had a hard time acclimating because I was so into American culture at that time.

But when I went later, I went in my 20s, I was there in 2001 too, I think. So I wonder if we were around the same areas. But I went on these kind of like back to the motherland trips with these other Korean Americans. And it was a program called Deep and Keep, Korea Exposure and Education Program and DPRK Exposure and Education. So we went to North and South Korea. So in my 20s, there was a lot of, you know.

Lee Herrick (43:49)
you

Lani Park (43:52)
going with other people my age, trying to rediscover my roots and learn more about my culture. And we stayed there for like months and stayed with people who are doing Pilbong, Samurnauri, like the Korean drumming and meeting with LGBTQ groups and going to protests, meeting comfort women. So it was a really powerful and emotional journey. And that was when I really fell in love.

Lee Herrick (43:57)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

journey

Lani Park (44:18)
You know just met some incredible people. I met Master Cho there before he was Master Cho and he was still Ajusshi Cho, know So I had some wonderful experiences in my 20s Yeah, but yeah

Lee Herrick (44:24)
you

that's incredible. I mean, that had

to, maybe you were already in that world, but did that form a lot of your politics and activism and writing and things like that?

Lani Park (44:41)
Yeah, I think so because it was all happening around the same time, you know, and it really kind of exposed me to a lot of different realities, especially when we went to North Korea because even my family was scared that I was going up there. They were like, and to go up there and meet people who are just like you and me who like to sing in the park on Sundays, trying to throw each other in the river was just so.

Lee Herrick (44:56)
Mm-hmm.

Lani Park (45:05)
Heartwarming to realize that we're all the same all over the world no matter what they're trying to program us with you know and that We're all human beings trying to live this life the best we can so yeah

Lee Herrick (45:10)
Yeah.

Yes, it's so true. It's so

true. Travel can do that, you know. Yeah, I love that. I love that.

Lani Park (45:19)
Yeah, right.

Thank you. So how can we support you now? Are there any events or readings or things coming up that we should know about or anything that you'd like to share?

Lee Herrick (45:36)
Well, I try to keep my events updated at my website. It's just LeeHerrick.com. But most of my events these days are in California, but I have a virtual one here and there. Yeah, and if anybody would like to check out my new book, In Praise of Late Wonder, you can do that. yeah, otherwise, no, just grateful for you having me.

Lani Park (45:40)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Hmm.

Beautiful. Yes.

Oh,

I'm grateful that you took the time out of your busy schedule to connect. It really is a treat for me and it's a pleasure and an honor. So, 아이고, 고맙습니다. Oh, thank you. So, I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. 고마워요. Okay, 안녕. Okay, so...

Lee Herrick (46:03)
Thanks.

It's so great to see you. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, thank you, you too, Isha.

Lani Park (46:31)
Now I'm going to stop this, but I just wanted to say thank you so much. That was wonderful. Yeah.

Lee Herrick (46:36)
my gosh, thank you so much.

just, I realize I'm calling you Ishal. Is that okay? Or do you go by Lonnie? Okay, okay.

Lani Park (46:45)
yeah, so

I go by Lani here, but it's sure is fine. You know, that's what, yeah.

Lee Herrick (46:49)
Okay, okay.

This is, I can't tell you, it'll probably just get embarrassing, but have I told you how much you mean in my life? Just the inspiration, honestly. So, yeah, really.

Lani Park (46:54)
No

I feel the same way about you. We're like in a mutual fan club society then cuz Yeah,

you really I love your poetry and I've loved it for years and your spirit and you're just so wise and gentle and kind and Yeah Yeah It makes me happy to know that you're here in this world. It's like with the world going to shit. It's nice to know some good people are still around

Lee Herrick (47:18)
Oh, thank you. Thank you.

I know and you're I love trying to keep up with you. Kids are growing and I love what you said, you know, looking after them and that everything's good out there.

Lani Park (47:35)
Same

Yeah, everything's pretty good I'm grateful I can't complain life is nice out here is I still thank God every morning that I wake up Yeah, you gotta come visit with your family Yeah, you know, I'd love to take you guys around have some beautiful beach days and adventures So maybe sometime in this lifetime we can make that happen

Lee Herrick (47:50)
That's good.

so beautiful.

you

I'd love to. I would love

that. I would love that. It's so beautiful where you are. Oh my gosh. You're lucky to live there.

Lani Park (48:09)
No

I know you have some beautiful places too. I've seen some of those beach landscapes of like beautiful places where it's just like sea and sky. I'm like,

Lee Herrick (48:22)
Well, it's not Hawaii, yeah, we it's. so yes, California. My my grandmother's mother, her. She built the first beach house. It's in a little town called Carpinteria, so it's just south of Santa Barbara and it's this tiny little shack. Really, it's like it's almost fall.

Lani Park (48:25)
Where is that those pictures if you don't mind me is that California?

Hmm

Mmm.

Lee Herrick (48:48)
it's falling apart, but it was built in like 1938 and, but it's right on the water. And it's just, I think it's one of my favorite places, you know? Yeah, just.

Lani Park (48:55)
wonderful.

right on.

Lee Herrick (49:03)
Yeah, so we go there maybe two or three times a year. Yeah, how close are you to the water? Like if you were to drive or whatever, how close are you?

Lani Park (49:08)
sweet. Yeah, that looks like a beautiful sanctuary.

I mean, I could get to a beach within like 20 minutes probably. Yeah, so 20 or 30 minutes.

Lee Herrick (49:22)
Wow.

I want to be there. No, it's so nice.

Lani Park (49:32)
Yeah,

if you ever feel like it, I'm a real estate agent too, you know. It's going, you know, I don't know, it's okay. Like I realize I have lots of friends who want to buy houses, but they've been hippies their whole lives so they can't necessarily afford it. So that's been kind of like the experience, but I'm moving to do timeshare so that way people could come and go as they please.

Lee Herrick (49:35)
I know. How is that going?

Lani Park (49:59)
then the audience is built in when we work for the hotels, you know, so it'll be a little easier. Yeah. And then it's feeling like a dream and not feeling like a piece of land. So morally, I feel better. Yeah.

Lee Herrick (50:04)
Good idea. Do a lot of.

Yeah, yeah.

Are there a lot of people doing that? Probably, huh?

Lani Park (50:15)
You know, my first Hawaiian boyfriend when I moved here is a surfer. He is into it and he made a lot of money last year. He told me, you should get into it. So he arranged for an interview and that's how I got it. And we're kind of talking again. So it's like, ooh, everything is like working in this interesting way. So we'll see, time will tell, but yeah. So it's kind of.

Lee Herrick (50:34)
Interesting he was an ex-boyfriend

Lani Park (50:39)
Yeah, was my first Hawaiian boyfriend when I moved to Hawaii like many years ago and we're like reconnecting now. So it's kind of nice. We'll see what happens.

Lee Herrick (50:45)
okay. All right. Yeah. See, now I should interview you as like a podcast. So

tell me about this guy.

Lani Park (50:56)
Now tell me about your marriage. How's your

wife and everything? God bless. You guys are like a power couple. You're like both writers. I love that.

Lee Herrick (51:00)
she's good. She's good. Yeah,

she's good. She's good. She's working on her memoir. So, you know, hopefully get that finished. But yeah, she's good. She's good.

Lani Park (51:09)
couplets.

Do you guys help

each other with your writing or you don't touch it? I'm just curious.

Lee Herrick (51:20)
I mean, I think if I'm helpful, it's more like idea, maybe some encouragement, you know, sort of early on with some stuff with her, her family, but I don't help with like craft stuff or editing or anything like that. I usually show her. like a poem or sometimes she'll be a first reader or I'll just read it out loud.

Lani Park (51:30)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lee Herrick (51:49)
She has pretty good instincts for poetry, even though she's not a poet. yeah, yeah. Is he, I don't know you were trying to change the subject or not. I don't want to pry, but okay. Is he a surfer, you said, or what is he into?

Lani Park (51:52)
Nice.

Hmm.

No, it's okay.

Yeah,

he's a surfer and that's pretty much what he's into. And he's just like a local boy.

Lee Herrick (52:12)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, okay. Well,

I'll have good energies for you. Yeah.

Lani Park (52:22)
Oh, thank you.

And so when you close out of this, can you please just leave your, I don't know if you are on a laptop or phone, but could you just leave it on until there's a little purple thing that says uploading until that says it's complete on top. It should be, it says like 99 % uploading on mine. But I recognize with some of my past interviews,

Lee Herrick (52:41)
yeah.

Lani Park (52:44)
If you just close out and just leave it, then it doesn't upload all the videos. So if you don't mind just leaving it open until it says it's done, it should capture everything.

Lee Herrick (52:52)
Okay.

Okay, so when it gets to 100 % then I should close it.

Lani Park (52:58)
Yeah, so if you don't, you could just like walk away and like do something else and like give it time because I think it might take a minute, but yeah.

Lee Herrick (53:05)
Okay, okay. It sounds great there too. I just have to say I love whatever animals I'm hearing in the background. It's nice. But thank you so much for having me, Ishle This is so wonderful.

Lani Park (53:09)
thanks.

Yeah, probably some birds. Yeah, thank you.

was wonderful to see your face again and connect. I mean, it a gift, so. Okay, well have a great day and I'll be in touch and I'll send you some of like the nice little juicy clips in time and come on. Okay.

Lee Herrick (53:25)
to you too thank you

Okay. All right. Thank you. Okay. Bye.