LOOPED IN with Carl Warkentin
The podcast about understanding, building and managing circular business models - this is the place where we dive deep into the future of business, sustainability, and circular economy. After a decade of entrepreneurial experience as a founder and investor, Carl had countless, meaningful behind-the-scenes conversations about how we can reshape industries, close the loop, and create real impact. And now, we want to bring these conversations to you.
On Looped In, Carl sits down with entrepreneurs, business owners, venture capitalists, and policymakers who are at the forefront of change. Together, we’ll explore innovative business models, breakthrough technologies, and the regulations shaping the circular economy.
LOOPED IN with Carl Warkentin
Building Textile Recycling at Scale with Syre CEO Dennis Nobelius
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
A recycling breakthrough is useless if it never reaches real scale and Syre is betting everything on getting there fast. From Syre’s office in Stockholm, we talk with CEO Dennis about why they chose polyester as the first target, why their mission is “speed and scale,” and why they believe the textile industry needs industrial capacity now, not a decade from now.
We dig into Syre’s unusually customer-driven origin story and how off-take agreements change the rules of the game. Dennis shares how commitments from global brands like H&M, Nike, and Target help unlock project financing for a first-of-its-kind Vietnam facility targeting 150,000 metric tons of circular PET output. We also talk honestly about what makes this hard: chemical-plant ramp-up, purification challenges, and the reality that post-consumer collection and sorting systems still lag behind the demand for recycled polyester.
On the technology and strategy side, Dennis walks through Syre’s glycolysis-based chemical recycling approach, why they prioritize polyester-rich feedstock, and why they shifted toward an orchestration model that partners with best-in-class providers rather than trying to invent every step in-house. We also get into why Vietnam matters for circular textiles, how regulation around textile waste imports can make or break scale, and what a global expansion roadmap could look like as legislation and demand accelerate.
If you care about textile-to-textile recycling, circular economy supply chains, sustainable fashion, and the future of recycled polyester at industrial scale, this conversation will give you a clear view of what it takes to execute. Subscribe, share this with someone building in climate and materials, and leave a review with your biggest question about scaling circular textiles.
Contact Us
This is interactive content - send us your questions to the guests and we record another session just focusing on your questions!
You have suggestions for new guests or want to sponsor the show?
- Contact Carl via LinkedIn
Thanks for listening and keep podcasting!
Welcome And What Syre Means
SPEAKER_01Welcome everybody for another episode of Looped In. I'm sitting here in the beautiful office of Syrie with CEO Dennis. Welcome to the show and thanks for having me here.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Carla. Excellent to have you in our office and be able to host you here. So thank you for that. I'm looking forward to the discussion.
SPEAKER_01Always happy to be here. I had the luck and opportunity to have been actually here already a couple of times. Most of the listeners who are part of the industry in textiles and in recycling circular economy know of SARE. But maybe you can introduce a little bit what SARE is. And if I actually also pronounce it well, because I hear uh uh I think the Swedish version would be more like a SYRE.
SPEAKER_00Both versions work uh excellent. So uh Syre, that would be the Swedish, but we usually go with the SIRE, kind of trying to emphasize the re and the like the reuse of the word, but it actually means oxygen in Swedish. So we believe when everyone is talking about you know decarbonization and you know CO2, then we feel that we are coming with new new energy into the textile and then bringing in more CO2 or more oxygen into the business is making sense.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I hadn't I had no idea
Born From H&M’s Scaling Need
SPEAKER_01about that. So tell us a bit how Syri was born. Um it's I think it's a very unique story for a startup and scale-ups.
SPEAKER_00It really is different, and this is also why I was extra attracted into this opportunity. So we're not coming from the technology at the core, you know, developing something in the lab and then bringing that forward. We come from the customer. So we come from the customer back. That's how we were originated. The customer in these regards that is HM. So HM was looking at all the different investments that they'd done in the past and seeing that it was really hard to scale. So they thought they need a partner that could scale and really make an impact on their own sustainability targets. So then they thought maybe there is something missing here, we need to find a different playbook. And then they approached Sanna, who we just met in the office here actually, our founder. They approached her, who connected the Vargas team, who has been doing a different kind of scaling playbook versus many others in the industry. So they teamed up and said, maybe you can do something in the textile space. And then they looked at their different sustainability footprint and realized that polyester is the fiber to attack. So it's really coming from how do we make a textile impact in the business. And then they decided early on that this needs to be an industry movement and not something exclusively for HM. It needs to be scaling to be a player at, you know, being able to make an impact in the textile business. And that's how we were started.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much. And with that, you already now touch upon so many things that we will now step by step go deeper into, like which technology and and which feedstock you're focusing on, and and so on. But let's maybe um go a bit deeper into how it was born, so many different technologies and different startups in the industry can only dream of having this kind of commercial traction. Um, what are the advantages of this and what were also maybe your challenges in building up the company and the team,
Off-Take Deals And The Scale Playbook
SPEAKER_01the technology to actually also then deliver for a company like HM?
SPEAKER_00Of course, it it's super challenging because we're trying to do uh what other people may do in 15 years, in like two, three. So that's really challenging. And we have needed to adjust our ambition somewhat from the original statement that when we went public two and a half years ago. So we're also humble in the approach that this is a big challenge, and but we have taken one with full speed. So, as you say, the commercial traction is fantastic. Uh, we had we can share that we have HM, of course. We have the three largest off-take agreements in the textile industry. Let's start with that, and that is HM, Nike, and what we announced last week, which is Target. And then on top of that, we also have an outdoor brand, Houdini, based in Stockholm. Fantastic with that. And another one that is still not for public disclosure. But all in all, that means that we have close to 900 million dollars of off-take agreements, take-off pay agreement from when the plant in Vietnam is started and kind of seven years down the line. And that builds the foundation then for this different playbook because that is really a playbook to scale. Having the commitment and the partners like that on board means that we then can secure product financing and actually build the plant. So the customers here are really part of building the plant and making that financing uh a possibility.
SPEAKER_01Before we go deeper into the technology, tell us a little bit about the first the like the first days and weeks of that company. I as an outsider, so to say, have experienced these months as very turbulent in the textile industry. There was this huge shock when HM pulled out of uh RenewCell, which is now Circulos and luckily still existing, and then a month later with the announcement of SARE, and I think everyone in the industry, competitor or different technologies in textile recycling, are super happy and follow the process of SARE because the whole industry profits from its success. And back then everybody was a bit scared when renewal didn't work out. So, how was that whole experience for you and for the first days here?
SPEAKER_00Yeah,
Stealth Launch After Renewcell Shock
SPEAKER_00that was really tough. Because of course, then we have been running in stealth mode for I think maybe nine months, something like that. So quite a substantial period of time. And before that, Sanna together with Eric from the HM team were running the company before. It actually was formulated as a company. So we have been running in stealth mode for like nine months. We did our series A1 round in that. We were constantly trying to say that it is good if we can go out and say publicly that we exist because that would help us with all the discussion with the brands and the partners. It's so different to be in a stealth mode because then you cannot really share. So that is tricky. So I we really wanted to be public about it, but that at the same time, then we saw the challenge on the renewal side and of course understood the sensitivity here. So we were trying to combine that, and we also got the challenge from the board. You need to bring in three customer verticals to the cap table as an investor, which meant then that we uh worked with automotive and home interior and then apparel and trying to get that as a part of the cap table. But when we managed that with IMS Foundation, Late Motive, and Volvo Cars, and of course HM, then we were ready to go public. We had nothing holding us back, apart from the sensitivity then. Of course, that was quite a deliberate discussion between us in the board and and and HM. How should we treat this? But then at the end we said, we just need to go public. We exist, we are here, we have a big ambition, we have a big scale, we attack the polyester fiber, and then we wished the renewal and the circulos team all the best in this. But that was that was really tough.
SPEAKER_01But but probably it also gave a little bit of hope, at least to the industry in general, that such a big project was then announced just a couple of weeks later. And it's a different waste stream that you're focusing on, right? Uh, than renewal cell.
SPEAKER_00That's true, different waste streams. The renewal cell were out and the stock market, so uh, I'm not sure how much HM owned at the end, maybe 10 couple of percent like that. I don't know. But it was a very different uh different approach. Um, so polyester, different scaling playbook, um, as you say, also presence in uh we also already quite early
Why Vietnam And Feedstock Strategy
SPEAKER_00on decided that Asia is the first place to be for us. Presence of the textile industry, feedstock, as you mentioned, the presence, the existence on that, and just to be able to tap into the supply chain that exists.
SPEAKER_01I think that's an interesting approach because other companies like Circ uh just announced last year to build their factory in in France and in Europe, um, where is a lot of focus. Was going to Asia and now Vietnam um a also a decision to get access to the post, like to the pre-consumer waste and post-industrial waste.
SPEAKER_00No, that's true. So when we go for scale, and we were really going for scale, so our first plant in Vietnam is targeting 150,000 metric ton of circular PT chip output, which means that we need a substantial amount of feedstock. Right. And of course, then we have big respect for the ramping up of such a facility because it's basically a chemical plant. So then we have decided that all right, let's let's secure that we can get access to this post-industrial waste and have that as a substantial part of the plant and when ramping up, and then mixing in post-consumer waste because of two reasons. Both technical, that it's challenging, but also that it's it's also that that sorting and collecting system is not in place, particularly not in Europe, not really in Asia either. So we need to build that in parallel here by putting the plant in production.
SPEAKER_01You mentioned scaling. I think also another thing that a lot of startups normally struggle with, one thing is commercialization and scaling. Um, and I love that Syri has that ambition, and I think it's important for the entire industry. And you have with Vargas and Harald Mixi in Sweden also someone who's very prominent in scaling.
Speed And Scale As A Mission
SPEAKER_01And uh how is that for you? Like, and how important is to have someone like him on board?
SPEAKER_00I think it's really good because what you have, what you get with that is the ambition. You get the ambition and you get the vision, and ultimately we would like to make an impact. And impact comes with scale, and we can build in sequence like a couple of thousand, then 10,000, then 100, then you know, but then the impact will come like in 10-15 years. We as a climate system do not have that time. We uh acknowledge all kinds of approaches, but our approach that is scale, which means then that we're working with the debt lenders and financing, we're recruiting a leadership team and members that can be part of such a journey, so they really can be part of a small company now, but also a larger company later on, yes, and know how that journey, what that looks like. You know, that comes through the entire company, and of course, then heavily encouraged by by Harald and the team and the board. And Adam was actually the CFO at HM, he's also a part of the board, head of production in HM, Karin also part of the board. I mean, so we have the skill set and the competence and the ambition to really make this happen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I again from from standing a bit uh as an observer on the outside over the last years. Um I always was a big advocate for what Harold Makes is doing. Um because I think it's almost un very un-European to have so bold bets and and think in that scale, and not everything can always work out, but that there are people who are making these big bets are super crucial for everybody in the end in the industry. And and one thing that is also um a risk if you have a more incremental approach, especially in recycling technology, is if you reach one level, it's not automatically that you can scale the technology into the next level, right? So you have to think a little bit different approach when it comes to that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, in that we are we're quite pragmatic when it comes to that. So our mission is to read and reach speed and scale. That is our mission. Which means that when we are scouting technologies, when we're putting together an entire ecosystem, that's how we think and operate. Which also means that we are open to other technologies that we can license, that we can partner up
Glycolysis Process And Partner Pivot
SPEAKER_00with. So that goes all the way from if I take one minute then on the process. So we take textile scrap, we remove the metals, we shred it to pieces, we mix it with the ethylene glycol, so it's a glycolysis-based chemical processing. We put a lot of effort extra into the purification part. We clearly recognize that that was the major challenge last year, and we worked with that intensively, checking out many different potential technology providers, recognizing that doing it all by yourself would take a decade, and we do not have that time. So, how do we work? Yeah, so that's then leading us up to a number of different partnerships. We announced a few, but we have a few still left that we were key ones that we would like to announce as well. Which means that that's what we orchestrate. We orchestrate everything from feedstock side to the glycolysis-based process with purification to the partnership with the spinners, all the way through to the uh OEMs and the brands at the end.
Leadership Team Built For Execution
SPEAKER_01Over the last weeks, I I got to know uh the entire team very well. And um, maybe let's talk a little bit about that because again, I think you have a very strong leadership team, uh, obviously, also with uh Senator Campbell, but uh with with you as I think officially the first employee um uh here. Share a little bit about your background. You mentioned the car industry that is also being involved in in SARI and the project, and that's also your background, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes, that's correct. So I studied uh industrial engineering at the university, managed to be uh half a year at the business scholar in High School of Business in Berkeley as part of my PhD studies in technology management. But then thereafter I've been doing a couple of startups, but primarily worked in the automotive industry. And that has been uh running the final assembly shop or being responsible for quality at the big production plant in Gothenburg in Sweden on the West Coast. I've been leading Volvo XC90, S90, and V90 cars on the new platform. Uh I've been in quality, RD, and also running the uh Swiss market in uh for a shorter period of time as a marketing sales market, and that's great. And most recently I come from a position as COO at Polestar, the electric car brand, where we then scaled from 10 to 27 markets. And I also worked with software for self-driving cars, built the company fantastic together with Autolive. So, all in all, that just brings me to that scaling is interesting, this growth and making an impact. And when I looked at the car industry, which is an amazing industry, fantastic to work with. But then when when I compare that with the textile industry, then I recognize the CO2 footprint is almost as big in the textile industry as it is in transportation. But I do not really see the same same amount of movement on the on the partners and scaling companies in the textile business. So I think I can actually make probably a greater impact here right now. That's that's what made this interesting.
SPEAKER_01I I love that. Um and I'm a big fan of Polestar, so that's why uh I love this, and it it sounds like such a round story with also Volvo being involved in Sari as well, so it feels like one really round circle in that sense as well. And the rest of the leadership team is also really significant with the CTO with the background at Coca-Cola.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's that's amazing. So if I touch upon that quickly then, so yeah. Scott from uh from US, responsible for all new materials and leadership position at Coca-Cola, which is one of the biggest polyaster users in the world, actually. If you look into that, he uh also 3M before, so uh really skilled and here to make a change, so that's uh to make an impact to the business. Then he brought his right hand Vemcat with him, which is super. Then we got like a pair, a fantastic duo, and a strong team in North Carolina in the US. We have as part of the uh the uh communication and brand person also responsible for HR, Emma, who was previously CEO at the fashion brand, uh Röenish, and she has been working at Adidas and worked at Google before. We have Paul, CFO, who is more like a business developer than a CFO. He's super creative, and you have met him as well. So I see that you're smiling, but fantastic. And I worked with him in the automotive business, but he comes from Telecom before, worked at General Atlantic, he's from Jamaica originally, and then we have Tim, who is our operations guy. Yeah, we were struggling a bit to find the right position with him in the beginning, but I immediately know from the first interview with him that I would like to work with him. Let's just find what would be the position. Okay, because he worked at film production, he has worked in Africa, optimizing a coffee production plant. He's from Australia, lived in Indonesia, worked at McKinsey, fantastic, diverse background, but nothing very specific, not like he's a CFO. So then he took on the challenge on the feedstock in the beginning, and now he's working as our COO. So that's also how you can grow within the company. And then we have Harsha, who is 20 years at H fantastic relation and uh and uh knows everyone in the textile business, so he's really complimenting because we clearly recognize that we need functional expertise from the business. Oh, yeah, so that's really important, and then we have a bunch of other superstars in the team.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like really, really cool team. And Sarah is so active out there on LinkedIn and in marketing and communications, everybody knows about it. So thank you for sharing a little bit of background of the um of certain, not all of them, but certain people who work here because it just gives us a little bit more of an insight of you know the people inside and the purpose and mission of every single person that is working here. That I feel at least every time I'm coming here as well. When we talk a little bit about the technology that you mentioned, you think more in a platform level and and it has to scale.
SPEAKER_00Where, like, where do you stand and and how do you we were uh we were one on a glycolysis path where we de-polyze, we felt really confident that that had good benefits when it comes to scale and speed. But we also realized last year that we need to be even sharper here, especially then because of the scaling playbook. We also need to approach lenders and product financing teams. They need to know that we can scale and the technology is robust, which meant that last year then we pivoted a bit, and then we do more like the Coca-Cola approach, if we call it like that, which means that we work with the best in the industry and we find them, and then we orchestrate that and tie that together into one end-to-end solution, which brings about the quality that we need for the textile industry, and that is a different approach, and we'll probably be able to speak more about what partners it is that we will work with in a couple of months, but it's a very different approach, and it comes from the scaling and the robustness that is needed for going about bringing something really big at scale, because we cannot take a sequential step-by-step approach. We need to go quicker to a scale.
SPEAKER_01Is it something you can still patent in a way or secure for yourself? Because not everybody can just walk around and shop these technologies.
SPEAKER_00We would even encourage people to try to try to do the same because that is probably good for us. We still see a huge supply-demand gap, probably in the region of 10 million metric tons by 2030. So there is plenty of space, and we see so we would encourage more to go into that area, but when it comes to the protection here, speed and scale, that is our best protection. And then, you know, the trust from the brands, the building up of the feedstock suppliers, and then speed and scale.
SPEAKER_01You mentioned North Carolina is also a team and and you you have a facility there as well. How big of a role is that since the pivot's still playing?
SPEAKER_00It is crucial for us because what we need to do is to you know design solutions for the pre-processing stage, deep poly, polymerization, the purification in between, and then bring that all the way to the yarn that we actually have here on the table then. So that is that is crucial because we own the solutions and we have a lot of trade secrets and how you build this. I wouldn't say that our patent book is the one to look for, it is more our approach.
SPEAKER_01When we now look at all the waste streams, polyester's the the main waste stream, but um there I mean so many other technologies out there when it comes to different kinds of feedstocks and and different approaches.
SPEAKER_00To what extent do you expect a certain consolidation in the market at one point once we know which technologies are I think there will probably be a couple of different waves, but consolidation is happening in the market and will happen in the market. When it comes to different technology players, I think we need everything. Everything from enzymatic to DMT to uh glycolysis to hydrolysis, all those technologies I would just encourage them. They're probably suitable for slightly different purposes. What we have chosen then that is the glycolysis path. And the reason for that is that it's very cost effective. So we believe that we can match that with the scale ambition that we have. That also means that the kind of polyester feedstock that we are acquiring actively right now, that is 90% polyester-rich feedstock. So it's a fairly high degree of content of polyester. The reason is for that, of course, we don't want to transport 10% or 20 or 30% extra waste that we then need to take care of. And also that they exist and it exists quite a lot of textile scrap in the world. So if we start with taking care of the 90%, the technology can handle more or less, but there is not, it's actually to find the business sweet spot where it makes financial sense to transport and to pull out the polyester and you know take care of the byproducts, so it's more from that perspective, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And and and I love what you mentioned because I was yesterday here in Stockholm at the McKinsey GBB Green Business Building Summit, and one of the key messages to take away from that was the last five years everyone was talking about the green premium, and and now it's more about building more efficient, faster, better, you know, greener solutions. But obviously, you need to have that business model as well. So you need to have you need to be able to compete on price.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, for sure. I mean, the moment we we can uh I mean that's also why we chose this technology to work with. Yeah, because it gives advantages on cost. You can probably be in the specialty super premium segment with this other kind of technologies, and that's okay. But we are going for scale, and then we need a very cost-efficient solution.
SPEAKER_01Tell us a little bit more about. Vietnam, why Vietnam and uh and how far are you? Like also when it comes to regulation, I know a little
Import Rules And Vietnam Exemption
SPEAKER_01bit about it, but I would love to hear from you how easy is it or is it going to be to import textile waste as well and and so on, how is it set up?
SPEAKER_00No, so uh this is a major challenge uh because I think historically, when when or actually currently probably still, then when you look upon textile scrap as a country, then you're trying to put up a barrier and say, do not ship textile waste to us, especially in the global south, because what happens is landfill and installation and you don't want that in the country. So what has been the regulation now across the board in China, in Vietnam, in other countries, is to kind of block we don't want textile scrap. But what we have found in the discussion with the Prime Minister of Vietnam, which we have met now three times in the last year and a half, which is amazing, that is a big interest to become a global hub for circular textiles. So they see the benefit of being able to close the loop inside the country, and as a prerequisite for that, we need to be able to import textile waste. That comes with a scale ambition and also to achieve a cost competitiveness, so we're not relying on one market. And now, last week actually, we got the we got a decision that we will get an exemption, and we're very happy with that. There is still some details to work with, but all the work that our Stina, head previously state secretary in Sweden, has been working with together with the team, is now paying off.
SPEAKER_01What a good timing for our podcast. Uh, we have quite the announcements, and I hope yeah, in the future it will be, and I'm aware that there will be some more announcements to make. Um what is your vision for SARI beyond the Vietnam
Global Expansion And Capital Strategy
SPEAKER_01plant? We talk about in five, ten years. Where would you like to see SARE?
SPEAKER_00I would I would like to see us as a textile impact company, well recognized in the industry, trustworthy partner to the customers and the feedstock providers. And we also say that we start with polyester, but we would be happy to take on other fibers as well and plug them into the kind of ecosystem and the platform that we're building. When it comes to countries, we see that Vietnam is a good place to start. But we're also looking at the next one and the next one after that, and then we are looking at India, Indonesia, Portugal, Central America perhaps, and probably different sizes in those different regions, and at the time when it makes business sense to enter. But we're constantly looking for that. And we're also actively looking at the consolidation in the industry, you mentioned that. So there will be brownfield opportunities for sure that will come along the way, and then we'll always be able to look at that opportunity and see if that's something we should grab or not.
SPEAKER_01A very holistic approach and a and a big vision, but I think that's exactly the the scalability of things that lives in these holes here.
SPEAKER_00And it's also, you know, it is we are a scale-up, so it's still a risky scale-up in that regard because we are not having a cash flow right now, so the revenues is not there. So we are trusting investors and others that have the same vision that would like to bring this to life. So full respect for that, and we're really trying to take care of everything that we take on and do that as respectfully as we can and as fast as possible.
SPEAKER_01And because I'm aware that also there are quite some funds and investors listening to this and then industry uh players, incumbents. You are raising money right now, right? Uh no, that's can we can we share that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, probably not go into the ticket size, but what is really good is that our board has now then allowed us to be able to go out on the capital market and find strategic investors that is bringing another perspective that could be industrials or very well connected to Vietnam or Asia in general, or have some angle to it that they could add to this game. So that is something that we are actively now working with and uh opening up a bit.
SPEAKER_01Which is the right thing to do. I mean, as you mentioned, your pre-revenue scale up um with quite some um uh commercial traction, right? Like with off-takes. I think uh HM is around 600 million, uh, what one can read in the news nowadays. I don't know if you can share the the overall sum of off-take agreements. Is it that public already?
SPEAKER_00Uh it is not public, so it will be uh launched in this uh podcast, but we're happy to share that. So we're close to 900 million dollars. Wow, which is that's amazing, and that of course you feel that accountability that comes with it, but we are very proud of that. Yeah, so it's fantastic traction uh on that.
SPEAKER_01Wow, okay, that's impressive. Uh I I I'm aware like uh delivering on it is is um uh is uh super important now, and then I feel also the how serious everybody's working on this, but um at the same time, how amazing to have this kind of traction um in the textile industry. I think you mentioned before like that's uh the biggest traction in the industry, and um congrats for that. Um I feel uh every investor out there should now probably rather think of fear of missing out to be part of this. And I mean, I mean, if you look at the cap table, which is also mostly public, so it's like really impressive what kind of companies you have already involved in a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00And the lead investors TPG Rice Climate, who decided early on. Actually, that's also a little bit of a fun story because they were doing an own analysis and recognized the textile industry is a good space to be in. So they had kind of started off a pre-study, and then we got connected, and then they realized that we were like probably a year ahead on this, and then they felt that it's better then to team up instead of doing something on the side. So then they teamed up and joined in than the series A1 as a lead investor.
SPEAKER_01I love that story because uh everybody always talks about we need to team up and we need to collaborate instead of working against each other, and and uh this is the best I think it was a very humble and uh and open approach. Beautiful. To give us a little bit of a perspective, um, it's basically one of the last questions is how many of your Vietnam facilities would we need given the amount of textile waste we have?
The Supply Gap And Final Takeaways
SPEAKER_00That is uh that is tough. I mean, for once you can say that we can almost stop, we could stop now to bring up oil to make that into a textile fiber today if we just took care of all the textile waste that is existing in the industry right now. So that's a start. Polyester is actually growing because it's such a good fiber.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Cost that and attributes. So by 2030, we expect that to be close to 90 million metric tons per year in total, and then we expect the demand to be around 14-15 million metric tons for the textile to textile, right? Purely. And then the capabilities, capacity to be brought forward is around two million metric tons by that. So that's also why I encourage everyone in the space to get in here, support, because we need to turn this into a circular industry instead of uh you know, but there's enough space for everybody uh for sure. And that's also why then I guess that HM Target and Nike is trying then to lock in the supply because there would be a lack of supply. And then you see legislation push coming, and all the uh legislations really encourage like 80 different decrees coming in the just next few years. So it is a good business to be in. There are too few of us, we need to be.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think that's a strong message out there. Um, thank you so much for that. I love that there are solutions that are scalable that are good for the environment, but also good businesses in the end. I think that's how we help the planet more than by doing other other good things like philanthropy, which is a great thing to do. It needs to also be from the business point of view, like how how we make our money is more important than how we spend it. So this is a great example. So thank you so much for your time. Thank you for having me here and uh looking forward to see what what all announcements you have in the future.
SPEAKER_00Cool, and best wishes in Los Angeles then, with your new move and everything and building up a new business.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.