The Protectors® Podcast
#493 | Bret Vorhees | CEO of Taurus USA | Evolution of Taurus Firearms
Bret Vorhees, CEO of Taurus, joined the show to talk all things Taurus from the Judge line to Taurus Optics Ready Option revolvers to 10mm and beyond. Bret also walks us through the features of Taurus's new bolt action rifle.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
Bret Vorhees, CEO of Taurus, joined the show to talk all things Taurus from the Judge line to Taurus Optics Ready Option revolvers to 10mm and beyond. Bret also walks us through the features of Taurus's new bolt action rifle.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
Hey, welcome to the Protectors Podcast. Excellent guest today Now. I've been a fan of this industry, the firearms industry, since I was a kid. But one of my first 9mm pistols was a Taurus PT-92. It's kind of like the knockoff of the Beretta 92, but hey, I never had a problem with that gun, never jammed Thousands and thousands and thousands of rounds through it, Loved it. Now I have a couple different Tauruses. I have the 605 with the Taurus optics ready option on it. I've got an M44, 44 Magnum. I just I dig revolvers and I dig different guns. So, hey, why not reach out to Taurus and talk to Brett Voorhees? Brett, what's going on, man, how you doing.
Speaker 2:Hey, jason, thanks for having me on man, this is going to be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:There's so much about Taurus I didn't realize until I started really taking a look at outside of the Taurus brand. They have Heritage, you have Rossi and you have a lot more going on than the Taurus I knew of the 1990s.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you know we look at our company kind of as this global entity and it really broadens the perspective for us. Broadens the perspective for us. You know, in the US we're obviously very well known in the concealed carry self-defense world, very big in revolvers, as you mentioned, brascian Heritage, which we've been able to really grow those brands kind of independently of Taurus. We look at them all kind of separately because they all do things a little differently. But you know, on the global stage we have two factories down in Brazil. Parent company is a very large ammunition manufacturer, cbc Global Ammunition. People in the US would know that as Magtech Seller and Below used to be part of that. It was recently sold off. And then you know we have a factory in India that a lot of people don't know about supply a lot of military and police globally with AR-15 style rifles, striker fire duty pistols, those types of things, and so the brand is really much more broad than what we realize here in the US.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And you know, when you bring up India and then you bring up the revolver aspect of this, a lot of foreign countries are still in the revolver stage, especially with the protective, the security arena. I mean even in America the security arena is still in the revolver stage.
Speaker 2:I mean even in America, the security arena is still in the revolver stage.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it seems like you know my exposure to that's a lot in the US. You know you meet some of these kind of old school cops that still, you know, like Darryl Bulkey, who still rely on wheel guns and of course he's probably got a bunch of Glocks in his safe and he probably carries them, but he's a revolver guy. But now there's this kind of resurgence on the new age type of consumer. The new age type of user, probably guys more like me, you know mid 30s people that have had firearms for quite a while but now they're getting more and more into the traditional designs and we've seen this resurgence of revolvers and we've been in a unique position to kind of capitalize on that because we have such a just a wide assortment of revolver offerings.
Speaker 2:Um, you know a lot of you know less expensive I would say, but high quality, snub nose. You know five, six shot revolvers all the way up into the big 460 and 500 Smith and Wessons. You know more hunting oriented things that you can mount a red dot to. So it's a wide product range and we've been able to capitalize on that new resurgence that we've seen.
Speaker 1:Well, there's a couple of things there I want to talk about. One is the concealed carry factor of this, and that's another resurgence of the other revolver is now that I'm not a fed. You know, with a fed I can carry my gun anywhere. I could, you know, 15, 16, 30 million rounds. But now when I'm looking at states I'm going to, I have to really rely on the ammo factor. How many rounds? Somewhere like 10 is max? So, rely on the ammo factor. How many rounds somewhere like 10 is max.
Speaker 2:So when you put the variable of a revolver in there and then you put the power factor in there, then you know you could talk about like 357s, you could talk about 44s, you could talk about 38s, you could talk about pretty much anything yeah, and you know, even in some of those small frame lightweight stuff 22 mag is a very popular, you know you get eight, nine shots out of a of a, you know, 942 um in a gun that weighs what 13 ounces, 14 ounces, something like that. Um, you know, that's what I take, jogging most of the time is a little 22 mag aluminum frame lightweight gun, um. So yeah, there's a lot of different options there and the ammunition is, you know, better than it's ever been, obviously. So why not carry, carry something, and you have, you know you're truly not under gunned carrying a revolver.
Speaker 1:You know I do have to. You bring up a very, very good point. There is the 22 mag, 22 long rifles, 22s in general people. You can't use that for defense. You know it's not stopping power. You can't do this, can't do that.
Speaker 1:I took a trip down to Florida last month and I brought I had a jeez an old 22 revolver with me. I brought it down for my parents. My parents are in their late 70s. I can't bring a 44 Magnum revolver down there. I can't bring a 44 Magnum revolver down there. I can't bring a nine millimeter to my parents. I brought them a 22 nine shot revolver because for one it's a revolver they could. They know how to pull the trigger, they know what to do with it. Boom, boom, boom. They're good to go. Bring them to the range for the first time. They're hooked on shooting Now. They're absolutely hooked on shooting. They want to not just use a gun for defense. They don't want to have it in the house Now. They want to go target shooting Now. They want to go out there and they want to do this. They want to do that Now. They want to get a semi-auto.
Speaker 1:There's a whole market of people out there who want to have a firearm, they want to learn how to use a firearm. They want to have something that you know what, it's affordable, it's something that there's going to be warranties on it. Because when you're bringing up the seniors and you're bringing up families and you're bringing up first-time gun owners, what's the big thing? They want to know that if they have it, if it's going to break, if it's going to get fixed, because they don't realize that you could put thousands around. So what's the big thing? They want to know that if they have it, if it's going to break, if it's going to get fixed, that's right, because they don't realize that you could put thousands around for this. But they're thinking, hey, you know what? If it breaks, are they going to fix it? Look at high-end day. In the 90s, high-end days, nobody wanted one of those things. Now everybody with the warranties. So I think this market out there is incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think this market out there is incredible Um and before Taurus. Um and I'll get back to Taurus specifically, but before Taurus every company that I've ever worked for had just this amazing service department. Where you know you, you probably won't have a problem, but when you do, they take care of it very quickly and make it as pain-free as possible for you and that's how you get lifetime fans of your, of your company Um, and that's what we've tried to implement and done a fairly good job turning around the warranty side at Taurus.
Speaker 2:But I always remind people within our organization guns are probably the only product that people buy that they expect it to last forever. You buy a new TV, new computer, whatever you expect to get three, five years out of it. Cars may be a little longer than that, but you don't expect it to be there forever. You know, because things do wear out and technology advances. Firearms are a mechanical device that should never fail or never, never fail beyond repair. You repair short of something catastrophic happening that shouldn't happen and people just expect that gun. So we get service requests from guns that are 50 years old and we're expected to have parts available and be able to work on those guns, and so that's a very interesting dynamic to the firearm industry that I don't think a lot of people realize, but it's a very important part of our business.
Speaker 1:There are so many things to do with the firearm industry in this price range too, anywhere between the $200 and $400 to $200 and $500 range. I was looking at the SIG P365. I got one of those a while ago. I had the Glocks. I had pretty much all the different spectrums, the Walters, the Glocks, everything. When you start thinking about the price range, like, okay, you know what I want to get, another concealed carry gun. Do I want to spend $300-something plus? Or do I want to go and spend you know, by the time I'm done putting a trigger on it and everything else $600, $700 for a the reliability factor. I've never once had an issue with a Taurus firearm, but I swear it has to have something to do with marketing. It's the anti-marketing or whatever. What do you think about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. So, look, there's been a time and I don't necessarily shy away from this, I think this is the reason that I'm here and I'm very proud of the work that we've done as a company. But you know, there was a time where Taurus firearms were. You know I would say there were some issues with them I'm not saying necessarily design issues, but probably more quality control related, those type of things and so you know we can see it in the warranty data and you know the percentage of guns that were returned during certain periods of time, um, and we're far beyond those days today. We're, you know, we've invested in the engineering and, uh, brought people in that are true gun people that understand the features and what the gun should actually feel like in your hand and what it should do, um, that we're just putting out better guns today. So I I don't necessarily shy away from from the past, but you know, recognizing that that there were some issues, we, you know, we, we we've moved beyond that and we hope that.
Speaker 2:You know, from now on, and you know, even going back four or five years, the guns that we've been producing, we, we get very, very little returns on them. You know, I always kind of tell this story. You know, there's a lot of. There's millions and millions of Taurus guns out there and for the last you know, since basically 2020, the beginning of 2020, you know, if we're producing 10,000 guns a day which we have been since then and selling them into the market, it's. It's a high volume operation. Yes, you're going to have a couple here or there and hopefully it's something simple that is easily fixed and not not dangerous or anything like that which we haven't seen a lot of. But we get less than 80 guns back a day and and some of those are are the old guns that we know weren't as good as what we're making today.
Speaker 2:So, if you look, at the ratio of guns that you know.
Speaker 2:That's why we're able to maintain a two day turnaround for most, most warranty repair claims, Um, we're, we just don't get that many back today. Um, so that's, that's been an exciting thing for me to be able to see sustained over the last few years. Um, you know, as we just kind of continue our focus on improving quality every chance we get improving designs, um, you know, we come out with a lot of new products. All of those have, you know, improvements implemented in them, whether it's obvious or very subtle, and so we're always looking for ways to kind of not just increase the brand's perception but really the quality of the product and what the end user is getting. And the prices really haven't come up as a result of that.
Speaker 2:We have a couple models that probably are a little more expensive than what Taurus historically offered, but you know, we're still in that entry level price point, that sweet spot that we want to be in, because we think we can build a better gun for the entry level consumer. And you know, we, we, we just think that everyone should have access to, you know, those self-defense tools, and it shouldn't be, you know, everyone that makes over a certain amount of money. It should be everybody, and and you don't have to be, you know, rich to buy our guns, but they're good enough that you know anyone that owns a staccato could also own a GX4, you know what I mean, and so that's kind of how we look at at who we're targeting.
Speaker 1:You know, firearms are firearms. I do do have a one of my. One of my higher ends is I have a wilson combat edc x9, but then I'm shooting anything, I'll shoot anything, and that's one of the kind of things I'm always getting onto now is the bolt actions. You know, I do have a remington 700 and I didn't realize this till I think it was a big tax ordinance podcast you were on. Where you're talking about, is it the expedition? Is that what? The new bolt action, the Expedition? I didn't realize you guys did bolts and the fact that you could actually use accessories from a lot of the Remington 700 thing, that's a game changer to me.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about the bolt action.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it was sort of a new market for us. We launched that rifle earlier this year at SHOT Show and we actually just in the last two weeks started shipping them out. So they're they're starting to get out into, uh, dealers hands where people can actually buy them. Um, but it's kind of I don't want to say a passion project for me. It was. It was a void that we didn't fill and you know we we had some revolvers that were in the hunting space and things like that.
Speaker 2:But you know, not every hunter owns a handgun probably most of them, but not every one of them and so we wanted to be able to reach a broader consumer base. Some of the people on our product team had some ideas on how we could put together a really interesting package and not really have, you know, all that much cost tied up into it. We didn't want it to be the entry-level savage axis type of gun, because you know they make a damn good gun for three, four hundred dollars and that's just really hard to break into that.
Speaker 2:And uh, so we, we, we decided to go with a heavier feature set. Um, the guns are absolutely fantastic, they're, they are, uh, the construction of them is high quality. It's stainless steel with DLC finishes. Um, you know, I don't mind saying that, the batch of accuracy testing that I participated in was, you know, average group, over oh, I don't know, maybe well over 20,000 rounds over 30 guns. Average group size was 0.6 and 0.68 MOA. So they're, they're accurate across the board. They're consistent.
Speaker 2:Uh, it's hammer forged barrels. So you're, you're rifling, you're the bore of your rifle, of your barrel, the chamber, everything is consistent from gun to gun. You don't have to worry about, you know, tools wearing out like you would on a, on a reamer or something like that, or chips getting in there and creating imperfections. So there's just a lot of really great features and quality features that are built into that design and we're targeting, you know, less than $800, retail, like true retail. You know MSRP is around nine, 50, but the price that we're selling in the market, we know retailers are going to have those guns for less than $800.
Speaker 2:Most most every day and I just I think there's a lot of really good guns in that price point, but I don't think, I don't think there's anything that has all of these features and the quality of construction.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm taking a look at it right now as we're speaking and I'm looking at that and I'm looking at. So I bought the basic Remington 700, didn't have the box mags in any with the heavy barrel, and after I put the mag pull accessories on on it and I modified it up and this is without a barrel that could take a suppressor. And that's the other big thing I love about this. I'm looking at the same, basically the same thing, and by the time I put all my money into it I mean I'm not gonna say how much I put into this thing because, hey, you know, but to be able to have something that you could thread us, you could put a suppressor on it. Already it doesn't have a 15 million inch barrel. You're good to go.
Speaker 1:The market isn't just hunting now. Before, when you had bolts, people were like I'm going to do this. I want to do either hunting or they want it for some other practical applications. But there is a big market for long range shooting. Now I've seen so many people I mean I'm into competitive shooting and I've seen that it go from anywhere from. People are going okay, I need the, the race guns to the optics guns, and now I'm seeing people actually going back to revolvers for competition shooting, but I'm seeing more and more people getting into the long range shooting. They're trying to get back into that. They want to see what their bullet trajectory is. They want to. They want to shoot far and to get into that game. It's costly but it doesn't have to be.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm seeing right here yeah, you know that's we designed the gun. Um, I think there's there's a handful of us at the company that really share a lot of the same views on hunting and what we like in a bolt action rifle. So that's really where the package that you're getting is coming from. Of the things that we looked at the barrel contour, for example, it's not a pencil thin barrel, it's not really meant to be a mountain gun, but it is certainly lightweight at right around seven pounds. But the barrel contour being an 18 inch barrel and not 24 inch barrel, you're going to lose some weight by cutting those six inches off and you can afford to have a little heavier barrel contour where you're going to get sustained groups.
Speaker 2:If you want to shoot a five shot group, you know most, most guns are guaranteed sub moa but for a three shot group, um, and if you have a pencil thin barrel or even some of the carbon fiber barrels, you know I like, I like the idea of carbon fiber barrels, but good luck shooting a five shot group with them.
Speaker 2:You know, with rapid shooting it's it's hard to keep a group together as the barrel heats up because it's still a thin stainless steel or a steel barrel underneath the carbon fiber, no different than some of these mountain rifles, the contour and the overall barrel design to be able to put together some good five shot groups, which is you know to your point about people that enjoy long range shooting, things like that. You're going to get better performance if you do transition into a different application other than hunting. Most of the time hunting you're only going to shoot one or two shots and it really doesn't matter all that much. But you know I'm not taking a gun out into the woods or into the mountains that I'm not fully confident in and the way that I get confident in a gun is.
Speaker 2:I, you know, I have a whole process where I develop a load and do all this stuff. But even with factory ammo I'm it has to shoot a five shot group. That's well under one MOA, or you know, or I'm not going to hunt with that gun, I'm just, I'm just that way. It's probably a little more dialed in or strict in that regard than than most hunters, but to me, if I travel all over the world hunting and I'm just not willing to take a gun with me, that doesn't do that world hunting and I'm just not willing to to take a gun with me, that that doesn't do that.
Speaker 2:And so you know a lot of the design. And then, of course, you know pretty much everyone that I know that hunts has a silencer on the end of their gun when they hunt. And quite frankly, why wouldn't you if, if you could live in a state where you can own it? Most, most states that you can own them you can hunt with them. And you know I don't have to heavier pro, but I was young and dumb at one point hunting with a three and a wind mag without a silencer on it and I didn't wear a pro. And you know now my hearing is not as good as it should be for a 37 year old um. So you know all those things. You know you put a silencer on it and it's.
Speaker 2:It's about the same length as a 24 inch barrel. You know ramington 700 or whatever. So you know there's a lot of benefit to having the barrel design that we have. And on the cartridges you know, 18 inch barrel for a 308, you're not losing that much velocity. Um, I've seen better accurate accuracy results with a little bit shorter barrel than than a long barrel. Um, so you know. I just think it's the right combination of design and features for what we want it to be. Now, is it a long-range hunting rifle? Sure, you can shoot .308 or .65, plenty long range. It's not a .300 Win Mag or .300 PRC, if that's what you're trying to do. But for the cartridge, I think it's perfectly capable for any of that.
Speaker 1:You brought up. Another thing I want to transition into is mountains. Now I have this image of me going out. I'm going to go hiking down the Appalachians and it's not just going to be like two legged foes out there. You know there's going to be the bears and everybody's always like, well, what kind of bear gun am I going to get? Now I'm looking around and I'm looking at 44 Magnums. Now I bought a 44 Magnum eight and a half inch barrel Taurus just because I wanted a big gun. It wasn't had. A big gun it wasn't had didn't have anything to do with backpacking, going anywhere in the woods, it just I wanted a big ass gun that's going to shoot big bullets. Now, should I've gotten a 460? Maybe, but for my price range the 44 magnum is great because I had a 44 lever action. So why not have that?
Speaker 1:yeah but when I, when I was looking, one of the guns that really appealed to me was the Tracker. You know, the Tracker is a lightweight .44 Magnum that's perfect for backpacking. So I really like the idea that you do have a good price point, because I think I was looking at Trackers, for you know, the used ones were in the threes but like a fairly new one wasn't much. It wasn't pricey compared to, like you know, trees. But like a fairly new one wasn't much. It wasn't pricey compared to, like you know, going out and spending. If you want to buy a Smith 44 Magnum, uh, with a short barrel, it's going to be pricey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's probably going to have you know if it's going to have a good trigger it's probably gonna have to be a performance center gun, those types of things.
Speaker 2:You know, we try to include all of that. Um, you know, and I think we've done a great job with our revolver line. I think the triggers for a production trigger is better than anything else out there. You know, there's a couple things that you know.
Speaker 2:If you're worried about the finish looking, you know, perfectly polished, it's probably not that We've added things to our line to address, address those those people you know, with our executive grade. But yeah, to me it's, it's a tool and if you're, if it's a backcountry gun or something you want to carry when you're out hiking or worried about bears or any of that kind of stuff, you know it's a tool and it you shouldn't feel bad about getting a scratch on it because it's probably going to happen. Um, and yeah, so we, we offer a lot of different, a lot of different guns to do that. And then you know, our raging hunter line is it's going to be a larger frame than than what you're talking about with the trackers, um, but you know those are meant to be hunting, hunting revolvers. And we've just seen, we've seen tremendous success with that.
Speaker 1:You know I love it. I'm like I'm watching you on here on my other screen I got I'm looking at the raging hunter a raging hunter 500 snw, magnum, 6.75 inches. Yeah, and that thing is a beast man.
Speaker 2:I think we need to have like a protector's edition of that raging hunter, because I love these guns, man yeah, you know, and this, this kind of this short story I'll quickly tell, is it kind of speaks to the quality and and reliability of those of those guns. You know I, I took a 460 smith and wesson, uh, with the aimpoint red dot mounted on it, over to to africa and Cape Buffalo, right here, uh, shot it at four yards with that revolver and uh, you know it, it put it down. It was uh plenty of gun for for that. And you know I trusted that thing. I I shouldn't be out doing that kind of stuff. I got young kids, but you know the gun performed every bit as good as it could have.
Speaker 1:I did not know there were so many Raging Hunter models. And for everybody out there who's not familiar with it, the Raging Hunter is a beast. It's an incredible gun. Different tones, different finishes and everything. But you could put optics on it. It has the rail system on it. It has ported.
Speaker 1:People have no idea what this porting is like. That's when I say what if anybody ever looks on my igs or anything like that and I whip out the 44, I'm putting 300, I'm not shooting, I'm shooting the barrel loads. I'm shooting like 300 plus grains and that thing does not kick like you would imagine a 44 magnum would. Yeah, I did. I was doing uh drills the other day. I'm like, okay, you know, just for the heck of it, I'm gonna do. I whipped out the um, the 605, and I wanted to show people like, okay, with a speed loader you could do this. But I brought out the uh, the 44, and I'm like, okay, two to body, one to the head with a 44 magnum and you, there's no kick compared to what people would imagine a 44 magnum would be yeah, you know, the porting certainly works.
Speaker 2:You know the first 460s that came in were the shorter barrel versions, I think 5.5-inch barrel versions of the 460s. And you know I have a picture of myself shooting one of those and I mean it's putting out a very impressive fireball but it's not recoiling. Uh, you know the gun is as flat as it can possibly be, um, and you know I wasn't just hulking down on it for the picture, I didn't even know people were taking pictures of it, but, um, it was extremely fun to shoot. You know it's it's not necessarily light recoil for the big 460 rounds, but it's a pleasure to shoot. It's not going to snap your wrist.
Speaker 2:And then the gun that I took for the Cape Buffalo hunt is our 10.5-inch version. It has this big compensator on the end of it and I will tell you that is a powder puff to shoot. It's a sweetheart, it doesn't hardly recoil. And I again I was shooting. Uh, the rounds that I was shooting out of that gun for the Buffalo hunt was were 275 grain Barnes bullets coming out of the muscle at 2,100 feet per second. And then, uh, the backup rounds were solids that were 300 grain Buffalo bore and again around 2000 or 2,100 feet per second. So those are. Those are rifle cartridges basically coming out of that 10-inch barrel revolver and that that compensator handled that recoil very, very well, you know, I mean I could talk about the tourist guns all day long.
Speaker 1:There's one that I do want to bring up, that I got to give a shout out to one of my buddies homeland, homeland Security for 20-something years. He swears by the judge, he keeps a judge by his bed and I'm like okay, man, I see where you're going with this. You know it's practical, you know you can put the .410 in or .45 long colt and I dig the judges. Man, they're a neat little gun. That's got to be one of your more popular sellers.
Speaker 2:It has been for that gun's 14 or 15 years old now and still is one of our heaviest backordered items. You know we can't make enough of them without making drastic changes in our factory and we're we're producing a lot of them. It's not that we're, you know, shorting the short in the market or anything like that, it's just everyone that we make gets sold immediately and, um, and yeah, that gun has a following like like nothing else in our line, probably.
Speaker 1:Like, and there's two more guns and I'm going to let you go 10 millimeters, making a resurgence. You know this was like the wonder round, actually 10 millimeter in the 1980s. You know um, what was his, um crockett miami vice, yeah, yeah, 10 millimeter back then. And then that, the 90s, you know the 10 millimeter came in and then it kind of went away. But I see a big resurgence in a 10 millimeter back then. And then the nineties, you know the 10 millimeter came in and then it kind of went away, but I see a big resurgence in a 10 millimeter now. And you guys have a, the Taurus TH 10, 10 millimeter double single action. It's a solid weapon and you know I really, you know I dig 10 millimeter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's another one that we introduced Um it and we had some delays in production due to, like the magazine design, um, because it was a little bit of a new design and we were making that magazine, uh, in house.
Speaker 2:But again it, it it's just been a home run for us ever since we launched it and we use that, that th platform um, because we, we, we thought people, you know it's not necessarily a small, you know concealed, carry inside the waistband type of gun, um, we figured people would be carrying this out on their hip outside the waistband, you know, maybe hiking around um, maybe it's just something they take to the range because it's powerful and a lot of fun to shoot. But but you know, it's a 15 round capacity um, you know, roughly four inch, four and a half inch barrel Um, and then you know, hammer fired gun. It's extremely reliable Um, it's been a home run and there's really there haven't been any 10 millimeters available to the market at at the price points that we're offering. So you know, you're, you're, you're well under that $500 threshold. I think every other 10 millimeter out there has been well above that. So it's it's the first really affordable option that's been available too, which has been probably a big selling point to a lot of people.
Speaker 1:Well, I lied, there's two different things I want to talk about. One is the executive grade. This is kind of is this going to be kind of like your smith performance center type, in a way, not really the smith's performance center, but like more of your, your upgrade to your regular 605s, etc yeah, so the, the executive grade was, um, I'd like to say it was.
Speaker 2:It was my idea. It probably was partially my idea, but it came out of a focus group that we did.
Speaker 2:So we do product focus groups. We bring in experts from all facets of life all over the country and we get their opinions on different things. And a lot of times these experts are not necessarily fans of Taurus, you know. Maybe they've had bad experiences in the past and that was the case with the one that we did that the executive grade was born out of. You know, we we had solid platforms in our revolver line, but it's like, you know, we could refine this. We could, you know, maybe fix this or polish that up or add this little feature, and all of a sudden now it's it is more like a performance center type of gun semi-custom, I would say, um but we just basically do these small batch runs of these, of these guns and we learn. We learn some things through that process on, you know, trying to refine.
Speaker 2:You know all All the triggers are tuned by the gunsmith. Every gun is built one at a time by one gunsmith. It's a fully separate production facility that is dedicated only to those guns and there are most qualified gunsmiths that are working on them. So it's almost a point of pride in the factory of people that want to get to the executive grade area. Um, and it's not just a matter of training more people and put them in there Like they. They really have to qualify for it.
Speaker 2:Um, so right now we have six gunsmiths that are working in that, in that department, working on these guns, and you know, I think each of them builds probably five or six guns a day, so it's not a mass production thing. But what we learn about it is we learn better ways to implement these design features, like the chamfered cylinder that came on the very first executive grade, or even just better ways to slick the trigger up and make it a little bit smoother. All that trickles down into our normal production product lines, and so it makes all of our products better, but certainly is a way to refine our products and reach the higher-end consumer that is maybe more discerning with their tastes for revolvers.
Speaker 1:Like I said when we first started talking today, the revolvers are having a resurgence and I had to pick up a. I was getting qualified to teach PIs and security guards and stuff for the state of Virginia, so I had to get a revolver. That's not a .44 Magnum. So I ran out and I bought. I'm looking around, I'm like, okay, okay, I magnum. So I ran out and I bought. I'm looking around, I'm like, okay, okay, you know I could do this, this and that. I'm like let me find something reliable that I'll actually
Speaker 1:use. So I picked up the torus 605, but it was a toro option, the torus optics ready option, and I was like, huh, that's kind of neat. So now I have it. Now I gotta pick up an optic for it, but it's a revolver, that that's optics ready. And I haven't seen any of those out there. Because a lot of times when you see optics you know you have to have a real system. You're putting like a regular red dot optic on it, but this one you could put like the micro dots on it, and I really dig this option, you know, especially with with a revolver, you know. So that must be something really big for you guys to pull up something where you do have this option of for bringing out optics to regular everyday people with revolvers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the trend is obviously towards optic ready guns. Right, it certainly started with, you know, with rifles and red dots became more popular and then semi-automatic pistols followed. Red dots became more popular and then semi-automatic pistols followed. You know a lot of the projects that I've worked on, even at the company, as I was at before Taurus. You know a lot of the guns we came out with only came optic ready because the the demand was so strong for for that feature and so it seemed like a pretty natural progression that you know, eventually this will come to revolvers.
Speaker 2:And we started looking around and there was a couple of. You know eventually this will come to revolvers. And we started looking around and there was a couple of you know real custom options where you could have a Dundee revolver but there was nothing production. And you know, for us it's not, it's not that difficult to to add on to the gun and if, truthfully, if someone doesn't want it, they can take it off and it's just like their normal revolver without it. So you know, to me it's it's kind of a no brainer to have that option.
Speaker 2:And we also came up with a system that mounted very, very easily to the top strap of the frame sits very low, so it's not like you know some of the aftermarket stuff. We saw that the optic is sitting way too high on top of the frame. Um, sits very low, so it's not like you know some of the aftermarket stuff. We saw that the optic is sitting way too high on top of the frame. We tried to make it as streamlined and and compact and and you know, a lot of those guns are are really concealed carry guns so it makes sense that they don't add a lot of bulk to the, to the overall footprint of the revolver. But, um, yeah, it's kind of a natural progression there and and that's been a another big hit for us, it's, you know, it's good to be kind of the first mover in in certain ways in our in our industry and it feels good to be the first ones to offer that as a real production item I dig it, man.
Speaker 1:I dig a lot of your products. I mean we could get into I mean we didn't even go down the whole Rossi heritage lever actions. I mean I could talk for hours and hours when it comes to these guns.
Speaker 2:Well, let's, let's touch on that real quick. Um, specifically for Rossi, um, you know, heritage we're we're definitely growing into some new, some new categories and trying to make that more than just the, you know, under $120 Roughrider 22 revolver, you know. So we're trying to grow Heritage into other ways. But Rossi's a unique one. You know I brought up Daryl Bulkey earlier. We had him in town for a focus group and he just kept focusing on Rossi and I realized you know Daryl is a, an old school LA cop who you know doesn't like to go on airplanes and probably you know now he's a firearms trainer and he travels all over the country. Um, but he made a point that you know, you brought this up earlier.
Speaker 2:If, if you're going to be driving across the country and you're traveling with guns, you have to be careful where you're going and what guns you're bringing. And the Rossi product line is unique because those guns are 50 state legal for pretty much every product in the family. And now we have the revolvers, we've had the lever actions, the R92s and pistol calibers. So if you're in your Sprinter van and you're driving across the country, why wouldn't you have a revolver and a lever action chambered in .357 or .44 and have commonality between cartridges. Those type of things make a lot of sense and then you don't have to worry about if you get pulled over. You don't got an AR-15 going through you know Illinois or somewhere where you're not supposed to have it. So it's a pretty unique dynamic with Rossi that I don't think we even realized we had. But now we're really leaning into that.
Speaker 1:Brett, you brought up one of my favorite topics lever actions. I'm a big fan. Ranger Point was a sponsor of the show for a while and I have. I think I have what looking around like four lever actions right now. I need a 45-70, so I need a Rossi 45-75.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we just came with one. You know where to get one.
Speaker 1:I do know where to get one. But I'm telling you, when you put together and you start running a lever action To me, I love shotguns, I love police shotguns, I love tactical shotguns, I love shotguns in general. But when you're running a .44, magnum, .357, and if you're going to throw a pistol caliber into your lever action, we're talking groupings. People have no idea. When you're shooting a lever action the groupings you can get that quick on target.
Speaker 2:The point and shoot it's point and shoot man. Yeah, it might you know I wasn't big on lever actions. Truthfully, before I came here I was a lot more into the tactical and semi-automatic stuff. My first experience shooting Rossi, I shot in this. You know someone will call BS on this, but I shot two prairie dogs at 200 yards with a .357 Rossi with iron sights and if I shot one I could say maybe it's luck, but they were standing very close to each other. I mean that's a testament to how accurate the rifles are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's just the same thing with your revolver lines for the Raging. It's just the same thing with your revolver lines for the Raging. I mean, there are a ton, ton of different options when it comes to the lever actions.
Speaker 2:Yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1:You know the R92, triple black wood, black Cerakote, 44 Magnum, 16-inch. It's optics ready, so you don't have to. You know you have the mount on top already, which is a big thing. You don't have to worry about scope mounts and all that man you're going to kill me. I'm going to be spending all my money on damn Taurus's stuff.
Speaker 2:We'll take it all.
Speaker 1:We'll take it all. I'm sure you will, man that retirement paycheck doesn't go that far anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I hear you.
Speaker 1:I hear you what is this the Circuit Judge that's got to be? What is this the um the circuit judge that's gotta be a big seller too, right? So, guys, girls and everybody else out there, the circuit judge is like a revolver Rifle. It's like the old school.
Speaker 2:It's a. It's a 16 inch judge um, 16 inch judge Magnum with a stock Um, it's extremely fun to shoot. Um, you know, a judge to me doesn't have a whole lot of recoil. 410 and 45 long colt aren't heavy, heavy rounds, but out of a longer barrel they're certainly more effective than out of a three inch judge. Um, you know, you get some of those like winchester pdx rounds or whatever those those are um, and they're. It's devastating with with that longer barrel. Um, and it's a lot more controllable and easy to shoot out a little carbine like that so it's a fun, it's a fun little rifle that we make.
Speaker 2:um, you know, we, we truly don't make enough of those. We're we're trying to find ways to to make more of them because the demand is there, um, but you know, again, it's, it's one of those things where we're a big company and you know we can only make so much of everything and we're trying to do a little, or trying to do a lot of everything and it's not as easy as it should be sometimes.
Speaker 1:Well, as someone who's not a marketing genius and somebody who's coming from law enforcement, military or whatever, I've noticed since I started getting out of that world into the training world there is a market out there. It's a market of about 80 million people who are families, who don't care about politics. They could be on one end of the spectrum to the other, but they want safety, they want to protect their family, they want something that's reliable, they want something in the revolver aspect. They are something in a good price point. If they want a semi-auto, they don't want to break the bank because they don't know. All they know is hey, you know, my brother's cousin's uncle said this is a good thing to get. They don't know.
Speaker 1:But this market out there, they like the lever actions, they like the single shots. They like the lever actions, they like the single shots, they like the revolvers, they like something that's going to be. They could pick it up, it's simple to use and it has the warranty. It's just like that hyundai 1990s or night the um, the 1980s hyundai. They want something that's not that, but they want something that's the warranty now.
Speaker 1:And I think there's a huge market for everything that you guys are selling right now, and even the Heritage line with the revolvers getting into action shooting and sports shooting and stuff like that. There's a whole sports action shooting network out there. You could shoot those. You could shoot steel challenges. There's a sporting aspect of it, but there is a market out there that you don't see on social media of it. But there is a market out there that you don't see on social media. It's the underlying people are ready to spend money on something that's going to protect their family. So I think there's a lot and that's one of the reasons I wanted to have Taurus on is because I've seen the options. I know what's out there. I know the people that I'm going to be teaching. They need to have options. There's going to be people out there that can spend a thousand dollars for all the equipment and gear they need and there's going to be people that, hey, you know what, I got two $300. What can I get? That's my soapbox.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, it's really kind of wraps up who we, who we try to be as a company. You know, in a nutshell, you know we, we provide that, that option for the first time buyer. We provide the option for the guy that has a hundred guns already. You know we, we, we were one of the largest gun companies in the world for a reason and it's it's because we're putting out good quality products that people can afford and the features are now getting better and better every day. Um, you know, and look, I was in the industry back I talked about how you know tourists, you know, during a certain period of time, wasn't, wasn't probably what everyone wanted? Um, I was in the industry during that time.
Speaker 2:I can tell you right now we're a different company and the entire product line start to finish is a different product line than those days, and people can have a lot of trust and rely on these guns, and we're fortunate to be in that position today. The factories are state of the art, the equipment's state of theart. We invest in R&D and technology just like everyone else, or maybe even more so than everybody else. It's paying off for us. If you haven't looked at Taurus, I'll make a quick sales pitch. If you haven't looked at Taurus in a while, you should at least entertain it, because we're a different company today than we were back then.
Speaker 1:I appreciate it, brett, and I appreciate all you guys are doing and looking forward to checking out the factory out in Georgia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're welcome Anytime, Just hit me up. We can. We can make a tour happen very, very easily.