The Protectors® Podcast
#495 | Eric Bishop | Thriving as an Indie Author: Guerrilla Publishing
What does it take to thrive as an indie author in a market dominated by big players? Join us as we celebrate Eric Bishop's latest release, "Breach of Trust," and uncover the unique challenges of guerrilla publishing. Eric opens up about the financial constraints, the absence of traditional marketing support, and the creative strategies he used to successfully launch his first book, "The Body Man." This episode promises to equip aspiring authors with actionable insights into authentic reader engagement and building meaningful connections over flashy promotions.
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Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
What does it take to thrive as an indie author in a market dominated by big players? Join us as we celebrate Eric Bishop's latest release, "Breach of Trust," and uncover the unique challenges of guerrilla publishing. Eric opens up about the financial constraints, the absence of traditional marketing support, and the creative strategies he used to successfully launch his first book, "The Body Man." This episode promises to equip aspiring authors with actionable insights into authentic reader engagement and building meaningful connections over flashy promotions.
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Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
yeah, well, you know what about the protectors is. We just hit that record button and we're not gonna go into a lot of detail. Yeah, but you know what, eric? We are Welcome to the show. Eric Bishop, my good friend.
Speaker 2:Hello Jason.
Speaker 1:Breach of Trust. Breach of Trust is out now, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It is Breach of Trust. We are filming this on pub day actually. So, yes, book is out which, for those that have been around my story for a while, they thought this book was coming out like a year and a half, two years ago. So, like geez, where's this thing been?
Speaker 1:Well, you know, the interesting thing about you is you are a master of like I love the word guerrilla publishing, indie publishing, guerrilla publishing but getting out there, using your network, building your network and getting your books out there, getting your words on paper out to a massive audience, which is great, I mean, the little guy right now is getting beat down.
Speaker 2:We know that. Well, you know, honestly, I think the big guy is getting beat down too. So the way this seems like the system is working now is you have a very few people on top that are selling a lot of books, and that's what's keeping the industry afloat really is what it appears to be. So those you know, the big I'm not going to name them the big name authors out there, though those are the ones that are selling a bazillion books. So the smaller guy is getting a book deal. But the dirty secret is that the smaller guy might be getting a book deal, but he's not getting a lot of support. So they're not getting the star publicist, they're not getting this, the marketing spread everywhere. So they're expecting you to do a lot of the work.
Speaker 2:And, of course, the little guy doesn't have the resources that the big publicists can throw around and you know to afford. And I mean, if you go pay like publishers, weekly or different places, that you can pay for an ad I've seen some ads anywhere from six to $800 for an ad in a periodical what? What's my guarantee that's going to even sell enough copies to recoup that six to $800. And there's none. That's the problem, and maybe for some people it works really well. But so, as an as a gorilla publisher or an indie publisher, I have to be really tight on where I spend my money, because there's not an endless faucet. If there was, we'd be having this conversation face-to-face in Fiji right now, and we're not.
Speaker 1:I'd like to say one thing about this book too. When you get on these podcasts, when you get on these shows, when you're a guerrilla publisher, when you're an indie publisher I think in my viewpoint this, I have a valid, solid guest on it. I should buy your book. I shouldn't be asking for free books. Now. Publishers come on and they send authors all the time. I get books every week. It's almost like hey, you know what. That's part of their gig. You know them. Churning out a book is like a nickel for the dollar. But when you, when you have in year, you know what. I'm using gorilla publishing for now and I love that word let's go with a big camo thing, copyright.
Speaker 1:That's already done. I just typed it up and sent it in. The thing is every dollar you spend on marketing, every cent dollar energy and we're talking hours too. You know time is money. Every like you being honest is money is is taken away from what the value of your book is right.
Speaker 1:So when we talk about marketing, I remember when you first, when your first book came out, the body man, I got this package in the mail. I get these, like you know, wax sealed envelopes and I get this from other indie gorilla, gorilla publishing, uh, gorilla publishers right now is I get a lot of swag in the mail, but I don't want it. I don't. I love it. I'll do a social media post. It's great, but I don't want it. It's taking away from the overall big picture of it. Takes you so much energy to put your book and write a nice letter into a box and mail it out.
Speaker 1:And we talked about the mate, some of these, these big time quote unquote big time authors out there right now who have a marketing machine behind them. They have someone that could put their, their books in a pretty little packages and send them out to every influencer in the world, right, but but does that really drive sales for them? Yeah, because you know they got the marketing machine behind them. Right, that's true. But with you, with your network and with your people, I think it's better off just getting out there and and have people authentically read it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Read your product and review it.
Speaker 2:Well, and with the body man, I you know you don't know what you don't know. So I had never been down that path of getting published as a small publisher. But I'd never been down that path. I didn't know what to do, what not to do. So I put a tremendous amount of effort in the marketing on my own where you know, buying challenge coins, like you said, doing the letters and I actually will be. I'll do the wax seal letters again this time and I'll tell you about how I'm going to do it different this time. But but I sent you a lot of that stuff out for the body man and you know I kept the receipts of how much I spent. It wasn't a small amount of money Now. It wasn't the amount of money some people are spending by, you know, sending out cases and books and everything else and box fancy boxes or whatever, but you know it was a sizable amount of money. Did it get a return? I don't know, but I didn't do it for the return at that point. I think I did it because I was partially because I was so excited to finally get over that hurdle and get my book out that it was an, it was a labor of love.
Speaker 2:Now, on the flip side, two and a half years later, I'm a gorilla publisher as as trademarked, uh, jason Piccolo, um, I give you your $10, you know, trademark fee after the, after the call ends. So, um, yeah, yeah, of course, brother, I'll, I'll, I'll, pay a pallet to you, um, but no. So now I still want to do as much as I can, but I also have to look at it of, okay, what are my resources and what is going to give me a bang for the buck. So, yeah, absolutely I'm not going out and doing all the over the top things I was doing at first and again, it's not that I'm not grateful the second time around, but I got to pay all the bills. Now, if it sells well, I'll get all the, I'll reap the results, because I didn't do that with the small publisher. I got the smallest percentage of everything. So I shelled out a lot to market and I saw very little of it back in the sense of the percentage of sales. Now it's flipped where I'll get 100% of whatever comes in.
Speaker 2:But also the way this works too. Unless you're selling a whole lot of books, you end up taking the money you're making or the profit. If you're profitable which you hope you are and you starting to put it into the next book, and the goal would be, after multiple books are out, you've then built up enough of a fan base and you're putting out quality enough stories, which is the most important thing, that you're starting to make enough that you don't have to just invest in the next book. You actually have maybe a vacation fund, or some people are blessed enough to make a full-time living off being a guerrilla publisher, and that's not unheard of, for sure. But it's also not unheard of or it's not unheard of for someone that's in the traditional publishing route to never be able to quit their job, because that's pretty common, that it's hard to be that 1% or that makes enough money to not 1%, but the small percentage that can make enough to, you know, provide for their family off what they make.
Speaker 1:Eric, you brought up some solid points there, one of the ones that I just really just kind of. I've always looked at writing and publishing and and books in a different light until right now, and then I took a look at it like the, like, the podcasting. My first 20, 30 episodes I was like, okay, this is kind of cool. Then it gets into the hundreds and I start building and building, and building. I never thought about that. With the books, you know you have the body man. You've been writing for a while but the body man is your first real push out into the world. Right now you have breach of trust and now you're taking a different approach to it, which I love. You know you're doing a different approach to it, which I love. You're doing a little of traditional marketing things with the covers and this and that, and then you just keep building your fan base and you keep writing different things here and there. But you're building, you're really just building and it's like really becoming a professional in it.
Speaker 2:The business side is what you have to learn Again. Unless you just have the resources to do it, you have to treat this like a business. Now, ultimately, for me, it's the joy of writing If we were to have this interview today and you pulled out the magic eight ball and you said Eric, I've checked it, guess what Breach of trust is going to fail, which it's not. I already have seen the numbers. We're doing quite well, but breach of trust is it fail, which it's not? I already have seen the numbers. We're doing quite well, but breach of trust is it? You're done. You're never going to make any money in this.
Speaker 2:I'll still keep writing. It might only go out to a few friends, it might be something I do for myself, but I'll keep doing it. So, ultimately, it's the love of doing it. However, how can you take that love and make it financially viable? That's what I've had to change my mindset to the last couple of years, which, fortunately, I have a finance background. So the numbers and all that. Like I know and I talked about this with someone recently I know the exact amount of books I need to sell a month to quit my day job. So you know, to replicate what I make as a financial analyst.
Speaker 2:I will not say the number, I will say it's not a small number. So, as my boss has said for a while of hey, when are you leaving me? When are you going to be a New York Times bestseller? When's this going to happen? And I just go? You probably got me for a little while, boss. So keep taking advantage of this not so intelligent brain, because I'm here Because it's so hard. It Not so intelligent brain because I'm here because it's so hard. It's so hard to sell that volume of books. But I also think it's attainable. But it's not attainable if you take your foot off the gas, if you let negativity pop in or if you just give up.
Speaker 1:You got to focus. You got to focus on the writing. You got to focus on character development and building your network, because really, yeah, in this guerrilla publishing world, you have to use what you have. You got to stay within your boundaries. You don't become an expert. Some people out there are like you're like, okay, bro, you're writing a book, how are you now an expert on this? You're just like stick in your lane, right. I shouldn't say stick in your lane. I should say don't overstep who you really are.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't think sticking your lane is wrong, because I think what the problem is, especially with people that go the guerrilla route, is you have to do everything because there's nobody else, it's you. But if you've got the financial means and you really shouldn't go guerrilla unless you have some financial means of you need to do what you're good at, really shouldn't go guerrilla unless you have some financial means of you need to do what you're good at. So if you're good at writing which you better be you're the writer, write the story, but you're probably not a good cover designer. Maybe you are, maybe you're okay, but okay is not good enough.
Speaker 2:Covers sell books. So if you have a book, a cover that looks like someone jumped on Canva and created a cover over 20 minutes guess what it's not going to sell that well, you could have the best, most eloquently written story. There is Not many people are going to see it. The reverse would be you can go hire a cover designer, have a crappy story and you might sell some copies, but very short period of time people are going to start putting reviews online and read it and they're like this is a pretty cover, but you can't judge a book by it because look what's inside your, your indie, your guerrilla career is over at that point. So you have to do both, which means you should probably get someone that can do a really good cover. If you're a good storyteller, get a good cover designer, get a good editor. None of those things are cheap, but the results of putting out a quality product means there's a higher probability you can do another book and make it viable financially.
Speaker 1:I dig the covers. You changed the Body man cover before, didn't you?
Speaker 2:I did the short story on, that would be the publisher and I parted ways after Breach of Trust was submitted. The publisher actually rejected Breach of Trust, which blew my mind. Honestly, I'll be completely open about it. I thought, well, did I really write a stinker? And I thought it was a diamond and it was really a piece of you know what.
Speaker 2:So I went back to my advanced readers and some of them were like bestselling authors. I didn't go to just kindergartners, I went to people that knew what they were talking about in there. I sent I just sent the comments from the publisher straight to them and said what the blank am I missing here? And every response I got was doesn't know what he's talking about, not right, this book is good enough to be published. Needs sure, it needs edits, absolutely, it needs some tweaks. So I just held my ground and said, hey, respectfully, no, I'm not touching this book, I'm not rewriting it, I'm not giving you another book. I'm glad that Body man came out and let's just part ways now the rights back for future books. But they kept the body man and I was okay with that. I wasn't asking for the body man back. Um, within six months, publisher went out of business.
Speaker 2:So then I did get the rights back, but I did not get the cover, um, which I was really pleased with. I nothing against the cover. I blew it up and have a poster in the other room of it. I'm proud of it. But because it was coming out under my own brand and because I was basically going to put another edition out, um, I decided it would be good to have just a fresh look to it and market it that way. So it's the same story.
Speaker 2:But I also went in and I edited it down, um upwards to almost 10,000 words, I think. So I brought the word count. I cut out about a good 10% of the book, um, so I was able to bring it to what I was pleased with. It didn't have the edits from the publisher, it had the edits from another editor I hired and yeah, so I was able to. And then I had the same cover design designer for the body man that did breach of trust. So he, even though the colors on it are obviously different, the theme is very similar, the fonts are very similar and the third book that will come out probably in 2026 at this stage, because I've got three other books coming out after breach of trust, but the, the next one for the Body man, will keep that theme and then the other books that are coming out end of this year and a couple next year are going to be in a different series and they will have a different thematic look.
Speaker 1:Basically, Very cool, brother. Where are we at with Breach of Trust? What's the premise this time?
Speaker 2:So for anyone that's familiar with the body man, um, in the end of that book we have a new president and the president is basically starting a task force uh, operation red star, to go after the sanctum. So the sanctum is the crime syndicate organization in the body man that kidnapped the body man and they're they're they're a very bad organization. So we breach of trust comes back a few months into the story of what's happening. But a few months later down the road the president's organized this operation red star and they're going full force, um, being led by the body man. Actually, he's kind of he's still in his regular role but the apprentice kind of steps in and does a little bit more of the daily. Uh, president, and the body man is going around the globe trying to take down the sanctum.
Speaker 2:We bring in some new characters. Our favorite female assassin from the body man is back. She's actually getting her own novel next year and the body man is going to be tied to that. So we're going to have some interesting dynamic with them. But yeah, it's just this global a lot of travel, switzerland, russia, macau, france, england. We're bopping around over a half dozen or so countries. The Mediterranean, an island in the Mediterranean. So we've got a little more travel. We're not just domestic on this time, domestic in an oil platform. The G650 is getting some work out this time.
Speaker 1:Here we go. It only takes one spark to ignite a raging inferno. A new president, an old enemy, blurred lines, broken promises everything leads to a breach of trust. Ever since the kennedy administration, the body man has operated in secret within the white house, known only to a few. The powerful role encapsulates one objective protect the office of the presidency at all costs. I love it, bro.
Speaker 2:Thank you, and I will say this too that was a great reading. By the way, you might need to, you know, do some audio books for me If I could do you know what?
Speaker 1:Let me tell you something about audio books. I tried to do that for my book, and you know what? Let me tell you something about audio books. I tried to do that for my book and it is tough for me, like I could sit and bullshit all day long, but to just sit down and read.
Speaker 2:It's a hard gig. It's tough man. You got to be a special person. But what I was going to say was a mutual friend of ours who has happened to co-host a lot with you in the past, aima Adair. Oh yeah, uh, she actually won a contest several years back when I was crafting the breach of trust and, uh, she got the and it's, it's, it's, it's out there, so it's. I'm not giving away a massive uh spoiler here, but she got the epic death scene in breach of trust.
Speaker 2:And, to go a little further, when we were talking a while back, she was, you know, kind of like well, how am I gonna? I need to read this for you. Somehow. I need to read my scene, cause I cause I told her she was going to cry. Of course, you know her background and there's probably a better chance of a probably better chance of Jesus coming back this afternoon than there is of AIMA crying for any reason. Um so uh. But I said, no, you're, I cry when I read your scene. Every time this is emotional. I pull in things I probably shouldn't, and you're going to cry and she's like no, and she goes, I'll read it on the air.
Speaker 2:And so the deal we ended up making a couple months ago is she's going to come on A Tale of Two Scribes. We'll have a nice conversation at first and then I sent her an early book, or not early, probably from a month ago, but I ripped out her chapter that she meets her maker Speaking of the wax seal. I wax sealed it, closed. Do not open under penalty of nothing I could do to Aima because she's a badass. But she still has it and she actually texted me today and she's very tempted to look at the version she got and just read that chapter. But she said she'd behave. So we're going to record it. If it, if it falls flat, I told her we can cut it out or we can make fun of it, but she swears she won't cry or tear up. I swear that she'll be crying like a baby and I'm sure she'll be right, but it'll be fun. I'm going to record that. Oh, it'll be an episode of A Tale of Two Scrubs, so we'll put that out later in the summer so we don't completely ruin that portion of the book, completely ruin that portion of the book. We'll give people a couple of months to read Breach of Trust. But it was all done, fun and tongue in cheek, but it's awesome to be able to take someone in your circle and kind of give them a little cameo or give them a par and fictional of course, but that's kind of the fun part.
Speaker 2:I have another chapter. Someone actually down the road from you, down outside the Richmond area, he has his own chapter and I gave him the book at the US Open on Sunday. He didn't know and I said, hey, here's a copy for you, chapter 47. So anyone that's listening to this chapter 47 is my friend, brian Wollnig. It's his chapter and you'll know why when you read it. I loved that I could do that and I did it just because he's he's been a good friend for 20 years and I was able to put some truth in it with a little fiction, but mainly a true story in real life and, uh, kind of put a fictional spin on it. So, yeah, that's those. Those are the parts that make it great. Because you have to write a story, you have to make some stuff up. Well, why don't you put in a few real people and some real anecdotes?
Speaker 1:A tale of two scribes.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I forgot about that, oh you're in the podcasting world now.
Speaker 2:I'm in the podcasting world. Yes, this is the new world.
Speaker 1:Everybody gets their own podcast, but only certain few could make it through. Does the body man do it? Does Eric Bishop's tale of two scribes make it to the next level? Critics say yes. Dr jason piccolo says yes. Who else says yes? I think we all do so. What do you think? What do you like? How do you like it, man?
Speaker 2:I'm enjoying it. Um, it allows me to connect with fellow writers and creative types that I don't normally get to, and especially, you know, as you know, you've got kids, you've got a life, you've got work, you know, I know you retired and you've gone into now another venture and it's hard to interact with fellow writers, and I've not. I had gone to conferences for about five years, kind of in a row, or or four or five years over the course of, you know, early part of my career. Well, I've just not had a chance to the last couple of years, mainly because it seems to like all the big conferences fall on my custody weekends. Um, I love writing, I love interacting with fellow scribes, but that always takes a backseat to my kids and my family. So, because the way it's fallen I even like BowsherCon this year is the week, uh, which happens to be right, leading into my daughter's 13th birthday, so I have the kids that weekend.
Speaker 2:And I said, I reached out to her and I said hey, honey, how about we go to Nashville? I'll go to the conference during the day, you and Bruce can hang out in the hotel, do your fun stuff and we'll just go up to Nashville. That'll be fun, won't it? And she's like. She thought about it for a second, she goes no, I don't think so I'd like to do something else for my birthday. So I was like well, sorry, bauscher Con, yet again I'm not going to you. So this opportunity allows me to interact with authors and bring on some different people. I bought on Chris Cochran the other day, which Chris does comics, uh, comics, and he actually did uh John's comic, um that that just came out in June. John's got his first submission for a comic which is going to turn into its own line.
Speaker 1:He's. It's a collaboration comic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know, get to bring on some interesting people that I might not normally get to talk to and hear their story and kind of just I don't know, it's fun Once a week I get to and I sometimes film two in one week when I don't. I don't film when I have the kids, so I might double up one week twice a month and, um, I enjoy those opportunities for sure.
Speaker 1:You know, what I really love about guerrilla publishing is having conversations like this.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Authentic conversations where like life gets. In a way, life isn't perfect, it's not this like media induced publication of like okay, such and such, you just released a book, now put the image on. Yeah, here's your image. This is reality, right, you know, reality is sometimes not the nicest thing in the world. But one thing I do have to say about reality, too, is it does gorilla publishing does give you the opportunity to have a good network. You talk about Emma, you talk about John, you talk about all the other people that we know, and they're all authentic.
Speaker 1:Not one person has ever hit me up to like in our group. That's hit me up to be like. I need this from you and then use you. I get messages all the time from certain people and they're really nice, and then in then I try to do everything I can to help other people out with whatever I can do. Sure, and I'm not saying it's be like oh, jason, you know you're the best thing in the world, you're feeding the homeless. I'm not. I'm just saying the more people I introduce to my network, the bigger my network grows. So yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2:I dig it. Man, you've always been one to give back. As long as I've known you and I know the connections you've had with other people, and I mean that goes a long way because, just like you said it, you're not trying to get something out of the deal, you know? I mean, john's opened up so many opportunities for me and I've shared some of those, but I've also been hesitant at time to share some of it because I don't like my connection with Shinedown, you don't.
Speaker 2:I do post stuff about Shinedown. I'll post pictures behind the scenes. They all told me I should. And there, you know, eric Bass was fine with it. He told me sent, put pictures from his studio and I I put one or two, but I didn't want to A, I didn't want to just take advantage of the fact I was able to spend a day there and then two. I didn't want people to go oh, you're just bragging about all these things you get to do. It's like no, no, no, it's not meant to be in any way a bragger. I've had some amazing opportunities and I'm trying to share it with people.
Speaker 1:Um, you know what I'm gonna? I gotta tell you something about shine down right now. Yeah, go ahead. I went to a couple of their shows. I, you know, hung out with john and got to meet the band and stuff. But john got my brother and I backstage and my brother is a little bit older than me and you know I had my one brother pass. But this is the first time like I'm just sitting there with my brother in decades, man, where it's just time, like I'm just sitting there with my brother in decades man where it's just us.
Speaker 1:And I'm just sitting there and I'm watching him, just absolutely just. He's what? 56 now or 54, I don't know. He's a little bit, he's older than me, but it's just. It's just the excitement on his face of being backstage and just watching him watch the band and now it's like anytime shine down, does anything. He's like, oh, we gotta go, we gotta go. It's like the best time of my backstage and just watching him watch the band. And now it's like anytime shine down, does anything. He's like, oh, we gotta go, we gotta go. It's like the best time of my life.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, yeah, having and john letting me have that experience, and I'm the same way. I feel really. I like I want to show the world like just how cool these dudes are. Is that it's not just bullshit? Yeah, you know it's not just like. You know you go to some bands, you're like, but these guys are just very authentic. And the same thing with John. I don't feel pressured, I feel like I'm not overstepping, I don't know, it's just, sometimes you do feel like overstepping, but then sometimes I just want to be flying a wall. I want to watch him do his thing. It's really cool watching him at work too.
Speaker 1:Man that is the coolest shit in the world is watching him at work.
Speaker 2:He's laser focused. Ten shows with him or with Shinedown in the last two and a half years. He's laser focused. I want to share one other story because I think this ties to and I've said this I don't know if I said in a podcast, I know I've shared it online one other time, or at least one other time but it ties ama into this.
Speaker 2:So they were having a show in knoxville and ama had kind of expressed to me how big of a fan her and her daughter were, um and I. So I reached out to john. I was like, hey, is there any chance we could I could, you know, get tickets for a money? Goes, of course, tell me who you want tickets for. So got ama, her husband and her daughter backstage passes, um, before the show. I had been at enough shows at that point that I had kind of you know, at least between barry and eric had kind of a you know a good, good, good friendship and Eric had kind of a you know a good, good, good friendship or a good relationship that I went up to Barry and I said, hey, we have friends here, they're super fans. Their daughter area is she adores you guys and she's like well, she nine, eight, nine, she's already seen them three or four times. I was like, if there's any chance, I didn't want anything for me. I said, is there any chance we could get a set of sticks for her?
Speaker 2:He just was like yeah yeah, I'll take care of that. That was probably two hours before the show. They get to the part of the show where Simple man comes on and Eric and Barry come off the stage. Barry comes off the stage. We were on Eric's side, so we were on eric's sides. We were on stage right. Barry comes off the stage, walks right over and gives her those drumsticks remember to do it. And then it did it during the show and I caught it. I didn't realize what was happening and I finally got my phone up just to video it for her and, of course, I sent some after that she was so flipping excited about getting those sticks.
Speaker 2:I still think about that moment. That was almost two years ago now. As a dad, I think about that. Yeah, if you can give someone at level of joy, um, that's one of the joys of being put on planet earth is to be able to help other people. And do that I again. I didn't want. I have one drumstick. I picked it out of the trash can because I was at one of the shows and, uh, barry broke a drumstick. He, he gave it to Ricky, his drum tech, and Ricky throws something in the trash right in front of me and I'm like what'd you throw away? He's seeing a show's going on. He just looked at me, I looked down and I pulled it out of the trash and he goes you can keep it, I have it. It's in a box with a set list in my room now Because it's split. Like a lightning struck it, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, like I was trying to think what word you used, lightning struck it because you're a gorilla, oh man, well, lightning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, come on, viking, that Viking just smacking the crap out of those drums. He just splintered that thing. So but yeah, that's the only like souvenir I have. Basically I don't want souvenirs, but to have those experiences and then be able to share those experiences with other people because I feel so blessed to have them. Man, if I can open up the door for someone else and they can get to see what I've seen, then that gives me a lot of joy. It doesn't give me like, look what I've done for you, because John's the one and the band's the one that's doing it, but if I can be a conduit it sure makes you feel good.
Speaker 1:I love it man, I love our little network. I love seeing shows, I love talking books, I love podcasting. I'm so glad you're in the podcasting realm. Yeah, I'm too. Thank you, I've just about hit 500 episodes, bro.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. I think you're going to be like 498 I think I'll come on again in two episodes and we'll have a big party, cause I'm we're going to be.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm drinking?
Speaker 2:water hardcore this year. Man, I'm the partier this year I got um.
Speaker 1:I got my blue october buckies kansas city water.
Speaker 2:My military buddy that came this week and brought me a bucky shirt from the uh, one of the ones in tennessee and I'm like my kids a month ago. Yeah, I saw that mug and buckies when I was there last month and I was like I didn't get the Stanley one, I got the big ass, the big 40 ounce.
Speaker 1:Or now too, I'm like I drink so much damn Bucky's and water and it's water end up my Bucky's. That's what I should say, you know. But now the protectors, we're going to be revamping. Man, I want to get more into. I want to really hit topics, want to really hit topics. I want to just talk more. You know, a lot of these episodes are like you know, 20, 25 minutes. I want to get into people's lives, so I think 500 we're going to revamp it okay, maybe look more long form yeah, yeah, I think this could be 45 minutes to an hour.
Speaker 1:okay, cut down on the episodes. That's why I haven't been doing as many episodes, but I'm probably going to be cutting it down to maybe a one a week, one every two weeks. Yeah, revamp the cover, you know, I do have my beefcake photo on there, but maybe something a little bit different. I'll get some viewpoints. That's what my mom calls it. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Well you've been so generous to your guests You've brought on you know. Well, you've been so generous to your guests. You've put the spotlight on not just writers, obviously. I've seen a bunch of your writer episodes with folks I know and stuff. But it's invaluable. It's invaluable to have that, even if the reach isn't as far as you might want it or they might want it. You don't know who's going to watch it, you don't know who's going to connect with someone. That's the beauty of this medium and you know everyone.
Speaker 2:I was talking to someone the other day and of course you know it's kind of like in the publishing world you bring up the first, the top two or three names and go, oh, if I was only that person. In the podcast world everybody goes, oh, if I was only Rogan and had Rogan money, it's like. But you're not Rogan and you're not going to be Rogan. So what can you do? Be the best version of yourself, maybe you will take off. But if you're not like you getting back to what you were saying and alluding to, if you're not authentic, if you're not being who you are, if you're just putting on a marketing face, it might work for a while, but at some point the truth is going to come out and just be yourself. Be yourself from the get-go. I I'm sure people get sick of my social media posts and all that and you know I've got to put stuff out there to market. But anything you see me putting out there, anything I'm doing, it's not to just post stuff.
Speaker 1:I tell you what that's. The one thing I liked about the body man was having the picture of the body man everywhere, you know, like all over the place. I love how people are doing that.
Speaker 2:And I love you reposting it too, because then people feel like they're part of it. Right, and I'll. I'll be asking people in the coming weeks to do the same thing, with breach of trust. Um, more so because me, as the author to know, there's you know, someone is in France that has a book, or someone's in Florida and California, or you know you've been kind enough to post pictures with the book. I mean no matter where the book goes. I've worked so damn hard to get a book out and it took seven years and and I'm not stopping anytime soon but it was so much effort to then know that that book is actually being read and it's actually making its way even around the world. I cannot express in some silly words of what that means, but it, it, it gives you an immense amount of joy and then it also gives me a motivation to say, okay, you've got the ball rolling, don't let the ball stop. Keep, keep going. You're enjoying doing this.
Speaker 2:And yeah, is it a lot of work? Of course it's a lot of work, but what am I going to do with my free time when I don't have my kids and I'm not working my job? I hike a lot, so I get a lot of nature in me. But on my free, free time, what am I going to do? What am I going to sit down and watch Netflix for two hours a night? Am I going to just watch sports? At the end of the day, when I get to that last breath of life, I guarantee my thoughts not going to be geez if I had just finished Yellowstone, or boy, if I had just binge watched whatever shows, I'd be happy at this point. No, I won't. I, you know, I might. I might say I got another book in me. I wish I had another time. And then, you know, then I go.
Speaker 1:Who knows That'd be kind of cool. That's a good way to go, I mean huh I.
Speaker 2:I interviewed someone recently and I can't say who, but they gave me. They gave me the line that I always ask at the end of the podcast. They gave me the line that no one else had given me. That I'm like how has that not been said yet? It was very concise and it was very clever.
Speaker 1:How are we listening? And it's going to be on the podcast, right, it is on my podcast that airs on January, june, 24th.
Speaker 2:24th is that next monday, june, a tale of two scribes. Yes, tale of two scribes, um, and you know what I'll? I'll, I'll, because I don't know when you're going to air this, but I'll say we're going to air this right away, bro, as soon as I'm done well, then we'll. The announcement will come right here. Meg Meg Gardner's on the episode and her line is so great. Seriously, what's that Heat 2? We talk a lot about Heat 2, a bunch, you know Heat 1 is one of my favorite movies.
Speaker 1:That is my favorite movie. There isn't a top 20. Oh, that is my absolute favorite movie in the whole entire world.
Speaker 2:Sorry, mine's not.
Speaker 1:Heat Platoon and some others.
Speaker 2:Have you had her on recently?
Speaker 1:I've never had her on. She's so enjoyable, I think it's time for you to do the link up here, bro. What's up with that?
Speaker 2:I will email. I'll connect you this evening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they're supposed to be making Heat 2 into a movie. You this evening. Yeah, because they're supposed to be making Heat 2 into a movie.
Speaker 2:We alluded to that, but she was very coy with me. I think she can't.
Speaker 1:They're picking around Adam Driver, all sorts of stuff here. Man, oh, you're killing me. Now You're killing me Smalls. Well, I appreciate everybody. First of all, buy the Body man, read the Body man. But if of all, buy the Body man, read the Body man. But if you don't read the Body man, pick up Breach of Trust. Then pick up the Body man. And then read the Body man, and then Breach of Trust. But absolutely support guerrilla authors. Guerrilla publishing is the wave of the future. I mean, we can get into that topic another time of where the giants are going, because right now the, the giant publishing houses are kind of in crisis.
Speaker 1:they're in crisis mode right now there's some big name folks leaving it too yeah, absolutely yeah support eric through the tale to scribes as well, because I was on there, was I episode two or something like that you were, uh, two or three.
Speaker 2:I should know that, shouldn't I?
Speaker 1:Three or three, two or three. We're just kidding. That's awesome man. I love you getting into it and you're very professional podcast as well. Thank you.
Speaker 2:I mean, you've had enough experience.
Speaker 1:You've been. You've been talking on podcasts for a long time now.
Speaker 2:I think you've been with me like a million times.
Speaker 2:Been on with you a bunch, yeah, been on with you a bunch. Yeah, you've been very generous with me. Um, the one thing I want to say about the gorilla thing too is, uh, amazon picked the body man for a kindle deal for the month of june, so the ebook for the body man is only 299, uh, june only. Uh, they set the price. I had no, I had no say in the price, and um, the cool thing about that is, if you've already read it, you can go gift it to someone. You can just buy the ebook and send the link. So, um, and that would be a good segue.
Speaker 1:Now you can reach read breach of trust without reading the body man, absolutely, but it's always good to know what's happening in the story and know that the details behind the scenes I tell you what I um, I got a copy of like the newest orphan x book and now I mean like I'm stuck on the audios, listening to our audios on my way to work, like all the orphan x series. So it's good to get into series. That's what it is. It's gonna be a lot more pressure for you because you got to start writing more so the the so breach of trust is out.
Speaker 2:We will have. I will tell you and it's been a little bit hinted to, uh, the next book that will come out the end of this year is Babylon Will Rise, which is the next story for the Omega Group. So the team that was in Ransomed Daughter, their next story is Babylon Will Rise. Next summer we will have Supreme Justice out, which is a standalone for Merci d'Ata, who is my assassin in the Body man and in Breach of Trust. And then at the end of the year I have an untitled book that is a prequel book.
Speaker 2:It's about Troy Evans, the leader of the Omega Group, the captain of the Omega Group. It's his backstory of he was. I wanted to put it out years ago and it's getting some fine tuning to it this year. But it centers around 9-11 and I was always hesitant and I was trying to get it with a publishing deal and I just didn't happen. So now that I have my brand, I think enough time has passed that it's very sensitive towards what happened. It doesn't use it in any way, but the events of 9-11 are what changed Troy, because he was going to actually follow his father, who was a special agent in charge of a field office out west, and he was going to do the same thing. 9-11 rocked his world and he started chasing terrorists instead of staying in the United States.
Speaker 1:Speaking of chasing terrorists. A lot of times, when you chase terrorists, you use guns. When am I taking you to the range and when are we going to shoot?
Speaker 2:I would like to do that as soon as we can. I'll have to pick a weekend. Either you're coming my direction or I'll have to go your direction and I'd like to like to do that for a come up for a weekend. I don't know if the kids or something we can I can meet. I can definitely make my way up that way. I'm probably squeezing around with friends. What's that I'll teach you? Else that would actually be. My son would enjoy it. My daughter might not as much.
Speaker 1:But you know, we can put some earplugs on her and she might be okay with it. So, yeah, that's always about the safety aspect of it as well. Now, what are we shooting? Uh, what would you like to shoot? That's what I like to know. If you could shoot any gun. This is tough, this is tough.
Speaker 2:I'd probably go up like an rpg because I've shot a lot of most and you would be.
Speaker 1:it's funny because the RPGs they they had like the little nine millimeter one here where you can shoot an actual RPG, but it has like a little sim round in it.
Speaker 2:Really yeah, oh, that would be cool.
Speaker 1:Pistol, wise pistol. Give me a pistol.
Speaker 2:So, pistol wise, I've had a 49. I've shot 45, a lot of 22. I've had 22, um three, 57, three, 57. I haven't shot in a long time.
Speaker 1:Let's talk brands. What brand of pistol would you like to shoot?
Speaker 2:Um, I haven't shot a SIG yet, so a SIG would be nice to shoot. Um, I've shot Glock. I've shot, oh man, smith and wesson. I'm trying to think what I haven't shot besides sig. Um, sig's, one that's on my list. Um, my buddy, one of my buddies that was here this weekend, uh, when he was active duty he, uh, he, he. Let me go somewhere where most people don't get to go, is all I'll say. So I got to handle the absolute coolest weapons in the world and, of course, me, being selfish, said great, I'm glad I'm, and I took pictures. And he said no one can ever see these pictures and no one has ever seen those pictures. They've never gone online or near the near the online world, because I respected his wishes. But then my next request was I'd really like to shoot these now. And he just laughed at me.
Speaker 1:Well, I tell you we're going to shoot a myriad of weapons, Everything from my Taurus, pit revolvers, sig We'll shoot some SIGs. I get about three or four of them. We've got a Glock 17 I modded up, but my Wilson Combat EDC-X9. Ooh, this thing's9. Ooh, I don't know about this thing. This thing's unbelievable. Okay, I had it custom made and it has, like, a flag on it. It's just unbelievable. I've never shot a gun like that. The closest thing to that that I really love shooting is I have a SIG 45, 1911 Scorpion. But when you shoot this Wilson Combat, you're going to be like, really, this is real. So I'd like and I I have yet to shoot a staccato, but thanks to Josh hood, josh and Mark Rainey both got um staccatos based on our conversation on this podcast.
Speaker 2:Ah Josh. Memphis then.
Speaker 1:Well, josh, I, we, we have a whole conversation. Josh is on a show where we're talking about Staccato. We're talking about Mark Rainey and this and that. So Staccato sends them Staccatos. Do you think they sent me one? No, what? Who shoots like five times a week? Huh, come on Staccato. What are we doing here?
Speaker 2:Where's that bus I'll throw.
Speaker 1:Josh under the bus Because you know what? I would not have thrown Josh under the bus if he didn't send me, like a little video. Hey, look what I got.
Speaker 1:Yeah, rubbed it in a little bit and I was thinking to myself I'm like and this is right before, I got the the um, the Wilson combat. But I ordered the Wilson combat like a year and a half ago and those guys really gave me a solid deal on it, cause, like you know, talking to Andrews and Wilson, and those guys, um, they're really linked up with, uh, wilson combat now and integrated them into their book series. So, yeah, man, um, we are going to do a lot of shooting, we're going to learn how to shoot safely, and you and your your family will be very well uh, prepared for the future.
Speaker 2:I would enjoy that and then hopefully not that I don't know any information that no one else knows, but my gut feeling would be shinedown will probably be on some tour eventually next year. So, uh, I think the bishop piccolo uh bus needs to head out.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's absolutely gonna happen.
Speaker 2:We're gonna be going on tour well, if they go to europe, which they haven't heard, they're going to europe, but I assume, since the last europe tour got canceled, that they'll try to get back with the next album. Um, I think I'm gonna have to take a week off work and go hit up four or five shows over here, because I've. I saw him in europe, in wales, a couple a year and a half ago, but, um, I need to. I need to see him on the mainland Europe and turn it into a vacation, so maybe we can do that one together.
Speaker 1:And we'll leave it like that.