What drives someone to serve and continue to honor those who have sacrificed everything? Join us as we sit down with Tom, co-author of "Three Wise Men" and author of the newly released "I Have Your Back," to uncover the profound stories of service and sacrifice. We revisit the heart-wrenching journey of Bo Wise, a Marine Corps veteran who lost two siblings in Afghanistan, making him the only service member to endure such a devastating loss. Tom's insights provide a deeply moving exploration of legacy, remembrance, and the importance of honoring our fallen heroes and their families.
The episode also shines a spotlight on the inspiring and tragic tale of Staff Sergeant Michael Ollis from Staten Island, New York. Motivated by his father's military service and the events of 9/11, Michael joined the Army at just 17. His ultimate sacrifice for a Polish soldier in Afghanistan is not only a testament to his bravery but also to the enduring bonds between allies. Tom walks us through the meticulous process of writing Michael's story, from gathering heartfelt interviews to capturing the personal anecdotes that bring this narrative to life. This chapter underscores the incredible sacrifices made by our soldiers and the friendships that transcend borders.
What drives someone to serve and continue to honor those who have sacrificed everything? Join us as we sit down with Tom, co-author of "Three Wise Men" and author of the newly released "I Have Your Back," to uncover the profound stories of service and sacrifice. We revisit the heart-wrenching journey of Bo Wise, a Marine Corps veteran who lost two siblings in Afghanistan, making him the only service member to endure such a devastating loss. Tom's insights provide a deeply moving exploration of legacy, remembrance, and the importance of honoring our fallen heroes and their families.
The episode also shines a spotlight on the inspiring and tragic tale of Staff Sergeant Michael Ollis from Staten Island, New York. Motivated by his father's military service and the events of 9/11, Michael joined the Army at just 17. His ultimate sacrifice for a Polish soldier in Afghanistan is not only a testament to his bravery but also to the enduring bonds between allies. Tom walks us through the meticulous process of writing Michael's story, from gathering heartfelt interviews to capturing the personal anecdotes that bring this narrative to life. This chapter underscores the incredible sacrifices made by our soldiers and the friendships that transcend borders.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
Speaker 1:
Hey, welcome to the Protectors Podcast. Incredible guest today. He's been on before Tom. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:
Hi Jason, Thanks for having me back. Not only have you been on before with the welcome to the show, Hi Jason, Thanks for having me back.
Speaker 1:
Not only have you been on before with the book Three Wise Men, but we actually met in person for a signing, which was very cool.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, at the Vienna Inn. That was a lot of fun. Fun day lots of chili dogs and beers.
Speaker 1:
You know that book was amazing man.
Speaker 2:
You know the Three Wise.
Speaker 1:
Men, why don't you tell us a little bit about that book before we jump into the new one?
Speaker 2:
Sure, Three wise men. I wrote with a veteran Marine Corps veteran and Gold Star brother named Bo Wise. He has the tragic distinction of being the only service member to lose two brothers in Afghanistan. All three of them served there. Bo was the only one to make it back and he was pulled from the battlefield, much as people have seen in the movie Saving Private Ryan. Bo was not allowed to deploy again after his second brother, Ben, who was a Green Beret, was killed. But incredible story, amazing family, and Bo is a really good friend of mine now, especially after going through the experience of writing the book together.
Speaker 1:
When you write these books, you're telling the story from like the complete picture and it's gotta be a really especially when you're dealing with death and people who have lost family members and that's one thing I remember about the three wise men is like you're dealing with a whole sphere, like just everybody was affected by these deaths. How was that writing process for you? Because you have to get it right, you know.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and I appreciate you saying that. And that's what it's all about getting the story right and honoring these fallen heroes, but also giving these Gold Star families the opportunity to make sure they're remembered and honored the right way. You know, it's not just, you know, looking up statistics and reading reports and doing that kind of research. It's really getting to know them through the people that they cared about most, and that also includes the veterans they served alongside, and I work closely with the families to get in touch with those veterans and you know they've all been just so amazing and when the process is complete, I like to think of it as more of a celebration of life, because people finally get that chance to tell the stories that they may have been keeping inside for all these years. And then when it's done, you know we all get together and remember and honor.
Speaker 1:
Remember and honor is a big thing because it's saying the name, it's getting the name out there because they always say, like your memory and your legacy lives on as long as your name is said out loud, written down, or it's memorialized somewhere where someone will see that name and go oh, who is that? How did they? You know what was their place in this world? And with the three wise men. It's an amazing story of those two. But now we're transitioning to a whole new story, the whole new book. So you had to reopen, like wounds for people, but also get their story out there so we could say their name. So let's talk about the new book. I have your back.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, absolutely, I have your Back just came out on June 4th is about US Army Staff Sergeant Michael Allis. He was from Staten Island, New York, 24 years old. He joined the Army at age 17 because A he wanted to be like his father, who was an Army vet who served in Vietnam very heroically. And then his city was attacked and our country was attacked on 9-11. And Michael was only in middle school at the time, but I think, as most New Yorkers did, he took it personally and any doubt in his mind that he would be joining the army was erased on that September day. So as soon as he was allowed at age 17, he got his parents' permission and enlisted and for the next seven years he deployed to Iraq and to Afghanistan twice, including the deployment where he made the ultimate sacrifice.
Speaker 1:
When you bring up family members, you know, when you let's look at the military as a whole, there's not a lot of people who have served. And then the people who have served have they're really a lot of them have followed a legacy. Whether a legacy is a brother, a sister, a mother, a father, someone in their family has lived and joined the military at one point. Is that kind of what you're getting as you interview all these people? They have a legacy within that community.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely. I'm a civilian. I haven't served, but both my grandfather served in World War II. My dad was called up during Desert Storm. So while I didn't continue the military legacy, I thought the best way I could contribute would be helping tell these stories. And you know, in the case of the Allis family, bob Allis he served in Vietnam during the Tet Offensive and was wounded himself there, was wounded himself there, and when he got the bronze star 30 years after even more than 30 years actually Michael had just come back from Iraq and had the opportunity to pin the bronze star on his father's chest. So that's a legacy right there, for sure.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely. You know you mentioned that you have family members in there that have served in the military, including your father. It's interesting to see how I've known a lot of people who haven't quote unquote served in the military, but they want to honor those who have served in the military and I really love the fact that you're doing this and getting out there and this isn't. You know, like I said, you have the three wise men book. You have this book. So much of your writing is military centric. You have this book. So much of your writing is military centric. So you're really bringing these stories of light and I dig that about you, brother.
Speaker 2:
Well, I appreciate that, jason. I appreciate everything you've done as well. Um, I feel like it's the least I can do. I mean, right now, in places like syria and iraq and other places around the world, dangerous places these brave men and women are separated from their families for months and even years at a time. You know, you look at what's going on in Europe. We have over 100,000 troops across the continent. A wider war could break out there at any moment. So they really are putting everything on the line and being apart from their families and, as a civilian, that's the least I can do is try to tell their stories. And, you know, connect, reconnect the veterans with each other who've been through all this together and lived through this. And you know just anything I can do to say thank you and, like you said, remember and honor.
Speaker 1:
You know, you bring up a lot of the conflicts going on in the world and what happens is in the media, most of the media. What you're doing is you're seeing the actual events, but you're not seeing the adjacent events, where you have thousands and thousands of soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, deployed to those regions, deployed to those areas, whether it's in humanitarian or support roles and advising roles, but they're in that adjacent to danger and it does pay a heavy toll on the families and the friends and everybody else that are back here, but also their mental health.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely, and you mentioned the media. There was a senior ISIS commander killed a few days ago by US forces in Syria and I can almost guarantee you that most people watching this podcast didn't see that on the news. It's all the election now, the literally in every moment of every day, and you know, a lot of Americans don't even realize that there are troops still in harm's way. So anything we can do to remind people of that and just you know, keep it in the front of our mind instead of the back I think you know it's our duty as Americans to do that.
Speaker 1:
You know, let's get back to the book. So many of the books out there, you know they have some sort of their centric around like special forces, special operations, cool guy stuff. This is a soldier, this is a soldier. This is a staff sergeant with the 10th Mountain who, in my words, you know, should be a recipient of the Medal of Honor. You know, if you read this you're going to be like huh. You know he is at the second highest honor, but still, yeah, when you first. How did you first get this going? That's what I want to know.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, so you know we're sitting here talking about the book, but it really was about a 10 year journey with this one because I had written a book called Brothers Forever, which came out in 2014. And it all started because the Gold Star sister of Staff Sergeant Ellis commented on a Facebook post about Brothers Forever and said, hey, I love the book. By the way, my brother was just killed in Afghanistan. And I said, oh my gosh, you know I'm so sorry, first of all. And then I was writing a syndicated newspaper column at the time, so I asked Kimberly is her name, michael's oldest sister if I could write a column about her brother honoring him.
Speaker 2:
And then so when I found out that Michael had willingly traded his life for the life of a Polish soldier, it really immediately struck me because, having written quite a few of these stories, both in column and book form, it was the first time I had heard of an American service member after 9-11 laying down his or her life for a foreign soldier.
Speaker 2:
So that really struck me and I think it spoke to not only the selfless sacrifice made by Michael and other members of our military, but the importance of our alliances and the bond that we share with countries like Poland that go back to World War II and even before then. So I thought it was an amazing thing what he did. So I kept in touch with the family and it was really around 2017 that we decided we wanted to do this. But it can be quite a journey in the publishing world and it took about seven years. But once we knew we were going to be doing this in about 2021, mid 2021, it was about a two and a half year process. But I'm just so grateful to the Hollis family because without them, this never, this book never gets written. That's for sure.
Speaker 1:
You know from I'm going to be this is kind of a selfish ask, but you know, putting a book like this together and outlining it and getting these interviews down, are you doing these in person? How do you map out a book like this? How do you make it readable?
Speaker 2:
It depends in terms of in-person versus just from a time standpoint. A lot of them have to be by phone or Zoom, like we're talking right now, but there were a few that I felt were very important to do in person. For instance, with Michael's parents, and his mom was just incredible about you know kindergarten projects and school papers, which you'll see a few of those in the book, particularly about how 9-11 impacted him. But you know even letters he got from ex-girlfriends and you know just stuff writing home with his friends.
Speaker 2:
But there was another interview in particular that I'm glad I did in person, and it was with one of Michael's best friends from Staten Island. But he himself went into the Marine Corps and there was a real emotional conversation that they both had on the Staten Island ferry while they were going into the city to have a few beers or whatever. And the irony of that is the Staten Island Ferry class of ships is now named after Michael and a specific ship as well. And you know the fact that these two you know a Marine and a soldier who had been best friends since childhood were really, you know, opening their hearts up to each other about the really tough things they saw over there. You know I was glad I was able to speak with him in person and and get that perspective and and people can read about that and I have your back.
Speaker 1:
You know 9-11, you know that I keep thinking about the story and thinking about his like catalyst. They bring him into the service. It's like, you know, we have generations that have been at war, but we're kind of in this weird phase right now where we have, like, generations that are being born into it but are they don't remember it. So you know, iraq and Afghanistan are becoming memories to a lot of the youth. You know if that makes any sense, I mean what? What is driving people to serve now?
Speaker 2:
Well, I think it's love of country and wanting to protect people and save lives and you know, I think if there's one common thread through the generations, that's probably it. But you know, you mentioned, you know kind of the in-between phase. If you want to say that we're in right now, um, that's why it's so important to tell stories like Staff Sergeant Michael Allis or the Wise family or whoever it may be, to make sure the future generations know what real service and sacrifice is and kind of give them that blueprint. I was having a conversation earlier today with a military times reporter and you know we were kind of on this same topic. No-transcript.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, you bring up the called upon in the recent news is that they're making it mandatory, selective service. And to me it was like when I was 17, it wasn't 18, you register for selective service. Now they're making it mandatory and people always bring up like the draft and this and that the draft was what 1960s were, plenty years ago. And you always wonder, like nowadays, like if something came up where they had to call up a ton of people, like how many people would be conscientious objectors, how many people would be like, okay, I got to go, it's my duty, or etc. You know, my my last call to service was I was individual ready reserve, so I actually got called up for iraq and it's weird to think that there's probably a whole movement right now of people getting recalled from the irr that nobody's, that the media is not talking about.
Speaker 1:
It's not really a backdoor draft because, for one, people don't realize like when you join a military, you join for as an enlisted person for an eight year term of service, whether that is three years, five years, two years or whatever, but you still have to commit to eight years. As an officer, you commit to a lifelong until you resign your commission, which I did when I got back. And then when you're retired, you're always subject to retiree recall as well. So I wonder what's going on behind the scenes right now if there are a lot of IRR people on retirees getting called up?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I'm actually not completely sure about that, but, like you said, it's a big issue right now and it kind of came to the forefront in this past week. But again it goes back to that point. There will be a time when this generation is called upon, or future generations, and you know that's where it can be time to put the divisions aside and realize we're all on the same team, even if it doesn't feel that way. And that's what I just admire so much about. You know this generation of volunteer warriors, but also the generations that were drafted, and you know it's hard to imagine. You know just being out there living a normal life and then suddenly you're in the jungles of Vietnam.
Speaker 2:
And it inspired me greatly because you know Bob Wallace, michael's father. He volunteered, he said, well, they're going to get me anyway, I might as well go now. And he did it on his own terms and was wounded. And you know the unfortunate irony is he wound up. You know having a son that was killed in action Irony is he wound up. You know having a son that was killed in action. But I, that's why I just admire this family so much and all military families, because they're willing to put it all on the line, so the rest of us don't have to.
Speaker 1:
There's so much more you get out of words than you do Like, let's say, a Netflix documentary or anything else like that. My generation, I absorbed as many books I could about the military and it wasn't always special forces and this and that it was like just regular military. I wanted to know as much as possible. You need to have words, you need to put words on paper and audible or anything, but get them out there, because you're getting the full picture, you're not getting sound bites. And you could do a documentary yeah, it's great, you know you can watch 45 minutes to an hour or something, but you're not getting the, the granule details that you need.
Speaker 1:
And I look at these books as more of like hey, you know what there's, there's different people that'll read them. You'll have the. You know the, the ones who want to honor the legacy of the soldiers, ones who want to be soldiers, uh, people who love non-fiction. And then you know people in the whole network. But this is when you look at it from the idea of I'm going to join the service.
Speaker 1:
I want to absorb as many books as possible down to the granular level in order for me to make an informed decision. I that's one thing I really like about these books and it tells stories about normal people who become soldiers. And to see that sacrifice I mean he sacrificed his life, and that's one thing that you brought up about a Polish soldier, and that's what it really hit me it was like you know what. To me it's almost like when you're sacrificing yourself for your brothers in arms and your sisters in arms, you're with them, they're like your life, they're your family. But to sacrifice yourself for someone else outside of your sphere, I want to know about that story. Did you find anything out about the people you know, the, the people involved in and everything else with, like, the Polish soldier?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, um, I did a zoom interview with, uh, Carol Kirpisha, who's the Polish Lieutenant who, uh, you know, had his life saved by Michael, and, uh, what struck me so much, you know, and there was a little. I had a translator with me, uh, but that was something that came much, you know, and there was a little. I had a translator with me, but that was something that came up, you know, while there was a language barrier between the two of you. And he said that, you know, amidst the chaos I mean not to get too graphic, but there were there was a lot of carnage around them during this firefight at Ford operating base Gosney on August 28, 2013. And when they encountered each other, the Polish soldier had already been wounded. Michael was out running around with barely one clip of ammo, no body armor, and as soon as they locked eyes, carol told me that that's when he knew that, even though he couldn't understand what Michael was saying, what he took that to mean was I have your back, and that's why we named, titled the book that way.
Speaker 2:
But, um, you know, it really was what shocked me about it when I had first heard the story, and even the way his family described it, probably because that's the way it was described to them. Um, I thought that they had been fighting together the entire day and even even if that's the way it was described to them, I thought that they had been fighting together the entire day and even if that was the case, that's still only a few hours. But what really happened is it was only about 10 minutes that they were together. They linked up with a special ops team, including now Medal of Honor recipient Earl Plumlee, who I spoke with as well, and he helped me a lot, you know, even gave me a map that really helped me understand what happened that day.
Speaker 2:
And you know, it just struck me, wow, you know, he only knew this guy for 10 minutes and didn't really know him. He just knew they were allies and he knew that he wanted to protect him. And I'm sure Carol felt the same way about Michael. In fact he told me that. So you know that to me even made it more incredible what Michael did that when that suicide bomber was charging toward Carol, michael didn't hesitate for a second. And you know people can read about specifically what happened, but I think and when people read, I have your Back there was an incident on his second deployment, his first to Afghanistan, where it really haunted Michael that he lost several members of his team himself at that moment that if the opportunity ever arose again to directly save somebody's life, he would do it, and that's exactly what he did.
Speaker 1:
You have an incredible way to tell stories. You told the story. You told numerous stories before about soldiers, sailors, airmen.
Speaker 2:
Marines, everybody in that world. What's up next for you? Well, thanks for that, jason.
Speaker 2:
My next book is with a veteran and gold star wife named Jennifer Ballou, and this is another case where I've never heard of anything similar to this since 9-11. But Jennifer was actually serving in Afghanistan when her husband, eddie Laredo, was killed in a different part of the country. So obviously it's an unbelievably traumatic thing she went through. But we want to write the book together, not just to honor Eddie and tell that story. But Jennifer wound up going to the Pentagon and leading the Army's Master Resilience Training Program. So she helped countless other Gold Star families, other veterans who were struggling.
Speaker 2:
And what we want to do with this book which, by the way, doesn't have a title yet, but we'll think of one but we want to help others who may be going through trauma through the training that Jennifer helped employ at the Pentagon. So she's an incredible person. She works at the Global War on Terror Memorial Foundation. They'll be putting a permanent memorial on the National Mall the post 9-11 vets, so it's just been an honor to get to know her, and the same publisher, st Martin's Press, will be publishing that book. They also publish I have your Back and Three Wise Men, so it's a great team and we just want to keep trying to tell these stories.
Speaker 1:
Tom, I really, really want to buy a cup of coffee next time you're in town, or a beer, and maybe we'll go to a Nats game. There we go. You probably got better seats than I would get, so the Nats game might be on you yeah.
Speaker 2:
Hey, that's fine. I would love to Go Nats, absolutely, man.
Speaker 1:
But you could also find you on the streamorg right.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, streamorg, I write a weekly military column there. We also put up every day kind of interesting military photo from either training or deployments. So yeah, streamorg, if anyone wants to check it out oh they're going to check it out.
Speaker 1:
Well, tom, I appreciate you and everybody, make sure you pick up. I have your back.
Speaker 2:
Yes, please do. I appreciate it. I know the family appreciates it too. It's available pretty much anywhere. Books are sold local independent bookstore, amazon, barnes and Noble, all that stuff. So thank you everybody.
