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The Protectors® Podcast
Welcome to The Protectors® Podcast, where the valor meets the storyteller. Hosted by Jason Piccolo, a seasoned veteran and retired special agent, this series is a must-listen for anyone intrigued by the courage and tales of those who pledge to protect us. Beyond the front-line stories of bravery and dedication, this podcast goes a step further, weaving in the perspectives of those who bolster and narrate the protector's journey—featuring a remarkable lineup including New York Times Best Sellers and acclaimed Hollywood actors.
The Protectors® Podcast offers a diverse array of voices, from those who wear the uniform to the authors and entertainers who amplify their stories. It's a unique blend that highlights not only the raw realities faced by our protectors but also how their sacrifices inspire the narratives we cherish in literature and film. Each episode is a testament to the interconnected worlds of service and support, bringing listeners an unmatched depth of insight.
Dr. Jason Piccolo is a retired federal agent, former U.S. Army Infantry Captain (Iraq 2006), and author.
Past Guests Include:- Sean Patrick Flanery - Andrews & Wilson- Mark Greaney- Stephen Hunter- Remi Adeleke - Florent Groberg - Clint Emerson - Travis Mills
The Protectors® Podcast
#499 | Joshua Hood | Redefining Followership | Staccato For Law Enforcement
Through a candid discussion, Josh navigates the often-overlooked concept of being an exceptional team player and finding gratification in roles that don't always bask in the limelight. Together, we dissect the behavior of both effective and ineffective leaders, challenging conventional wisdom and showcasing the importance of leaders who genuinely support and collaborate with their teams.
Josh's book, BURN OUT, is out August 13th!
We also delve into effective firearms training, combat Tupperware vs Staccato.
Make sure to check out Jason on IG @drjasonpiccolo
You know, welcome to the protectors. And, as usual, we start talking about really good conversations, great conversations, before we hit record. And we're like you know, bro, let's just do this. You know we are going to get into the staccato debate later on, of course, but one thing we were talking about is this transition man, this pivot, and you know, you and I both have had so many different pivots in our lives, so much transition, and I like what you're saying, I really do. You know, before we hit record, josh was talking about it. Oh and, by the way, welcome to the show, josh Hood. Hello.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thank you. We always do this. We get into the gold off of screen, because what I love about this podcast is talking about you. You come on because you have a book right. That matters, I guess, in the sales figure, but I feel like when we talk to each other, we talk about things that really matter, about life and about, like you know, trying to uplift other people and share experiences. And it got me thinking by your book that you're working on pivot and the transitions we always go through.
Speaker 1:I really like what you're saying, though it was like so Josh said. You know what? We have a million books about how to be a great leader and how to lead from the front and dynamic leadership. But what about followership, man? What about? Maybe you're not going to be the king of the jungle, maybe you're going to, like you know, you're going to get into your, your little niche, but you're going to be a great follower, you're going to be a great team player, and my thought on that, too, is like you can be a great team player. You could be leadership in other positions of your life, so you feel fulfilled. So you have that. Like you know, I'm not just a follower, but man, man. How do you learn how to be a good follower? But just by doing.
Speaker 2:I don't know, and what kind of brought me on this journey was, you know, burnout was a pivot book for me and after that book was, you know, put it, you know, published, brought out whatever it's like, that was a lot.
Speaker 2:That was the first time I've never had a contract for another book and so, as the title prophetically kind of came like burnout, I was burned out and so a lot of it had to do with writing, but a lot of it had to do with how much of myself I was putting into the success or failure of a book, because no matter what you do in life, if you I guess the term I came up with was I'm a person who writes, I'm not a writer Like a writer doesn't define me.
Speaker 2:The success, therefore the success of a book is not on me, it's I did my best, I put something out, and if it goes out and sells a million copies or 10 copies, it doesn't mean that I have failed. But somewhere along the line of this journey I'd allow myself to become what I was doing and going back to a follower. I spent a lot of time digging into belief and faith and getting back into the Bible and you look at Jesus and being a servant is kind of like being a follower, right, but that's not really sexy in America, you know. Oh, you're a follower, you know it's almost like a negative connotation, but not everybody can be a leader and I think if you push everybody to be a leader and everybody's trying to be a leader, like what, what actually gets done, maybe you shouldn't be a leader, you know it's true how someone has to do the work, and the leaders I've always had that were solid were the ones yeah, they can make decisions, but they're actually doing work right.
Speaker 1:I'm not going to come out and give like this, you know, emboldened speech. They're doing work and it may not be grunt work, it may not be like, you know, flashback to 1990, something when I was in the army. The colonel's not going to be out in a motor pool scrubbing you know, oil spots now. But if you have a solid leader, they can be the ones doing the things behind the scenes that are getting the mission done, but also supporting the troops, supporting them, you know cause. Then you can flash forward to, you know, later on, flash forward flat, flash forward, not fast, you know, know what I mean.
Speaker 1:To another colonel I had, who I was, I was his driver for the day and he goes I'm like, well, aren't we gonna go pick up chow for the troops? He goes now I want to get food first. I'm like, well, what about the troops? Because, hey, you know what, and in jest, he says. And then you know, I know he really felt this way. He goes, you know what, fuck the troops. I was like man. You know you could have two distinct different leadership types and quote, unquote leaders. You have the one who's really getting things done, supports the troops. Hey, you know what, if your mission is done by three in the afternoon, you got families go because we're going to put the time in later on. And then you have the one who's just self-centered, who's like you know what? All I want to do is climb to the top and, yeah, you can get a lot of followers and people will be like oh, he's a colonel, he's this, he's that.
Speaker 2:But truly, you have to be somewhere along the lines of if you're a leader, you've. You're talking about with that the difference between a good leader and a bad leader. Good colonel, a bad colonel the good colonels have spent their time out in the motor pool. You know. They're the ones that, as like brand new lieutenants, are out there with the guys. You know they've done their time.
Speaker 2:That's why I think Mustangs, the guys that come from enlisted to officer side, are so respected is because they've been there, they've had the shit duty, they've been out in the motor pool, they've been out in the field, they've done everything else. They come in to a position of leadership, understanding the responsibilities of that, because they've seen what a good leader is and a bad leader is. Versus, you know you have an officer and a lot of times they come in with this entitled this entitlement that's. You know we used to say uh, or they. I used to hear a lot. You respect the rank, not the man, and I always thought that was the weirdest thing is because, like, having rank doesn't make you a leader, right, it's just, it's a piece of metal.
Speaker 1:It does. I think, like you know, bring it back. The Colonel, the good one, at one time, like you said, was like a lieutenant or he was a Mustang and he was out there doing the work. He was doing the work and he gained the respect. And I think what you do is you realize, like you know, what If I do the right thing, I'll get what comes to me. Rather than if I step over everybody else's back, I'll get what comes to me. Rather than if I step over everybody else's back, I'll get what comes to me.
Speaker 2:You know, I'll even take. Let's go one way. Let's go a level deeper. Do you think good leaders ever envision themselves as this is a means to an end? You know like, I'm going to do this good work, I'm going to treat this guy right, I'm going to whatever so that I get promoted. Or do you think they just go in with you know that mission job first? They just understand, like, today I'm going to be the best version of myself that I can be, I'm going to treat everybody how you know I would want to be treated, et cetera. And then they're not really thinking of in the past I'm going to treat everybody how I would want to be treated, etc. And then they're not really thinking of in the past I'm doing this to get something. Their reward is in the job, well done and maybe the respect of those around them. I think that a lot. Now, when you have these books, what are these books like? Be a Good Leader or whatever? That's all ego, right, it's all. Look at me, look at me.
Speaker 1:I think when you look at these books, you know and to go back to what your question was, it's like look, yeah, I think if you're an authentic leader, you're going to rise to the top of, you're going to go as far as you possibly can and then you'll go on and you'll lead somewhere else. You do something else. But I think authentic leadership isn't like, hey, you know what? I'm a first lieutenant, I'm a butter bar. I just got promoted to Sergeant E-5. I'm going to be a sergeant major, I'm going to be a colonel. I'm going to do whatever I can, learn whatever I can and go as far as I can with what I know and do what I can in order to help those below me, in order to support those below me. And this transition over into the federal government. It's the same way. You have some people coming from the law enforcement aspect of it. Some people will come in and they'll be like you know what? I want to be the best damn agent I can. I want to put bad guys in jail and I want to do what I can. And then you get the other ones that are coming to go. The first thing they ask is well, if they're free if they're fresh, they're like when can I get on SRT? When can I get on SWAT? When can I do a group soup? When can I do this? When can I be an asac? You know, I, you owe me this. You owe me this because I'm this smart. Everybody and their brother has a smarts, I mean I.
Speaker 1:One of my really good buddies is a gs13. He's 52. He's same age as me, 50, gonna be 52 now he's 51. Work the field his whole career. No, headquarters, tours, no, nothing. Work the field. And you know what he's good at? No, nothing Worked the field. And you know what he's good at it. And he's damn good at it Because he didn't promote. Does that make him a bad person or a bad leader? No, he's leading from the front as a field agent. And that's the same way. You could be a solid captain, you could be a sergeant, platoon sergeant I mean a solid, platoon sergeant and still lead solidly your whole career.
Speaker 2:I don't know, brother. It's kind of where I'm looking at with this. I mean, I just think it's important to be mindful about what we're doing, what we're thinking, what we're believing, and, for me, the fact that self-help is the largest, like books and videos and whatever it's all these people telling you how to be basically a version of them or whatever. And you know what is success, what is happiness? Is it money? Is it whatever? Like I know a bunch of rich people that are miserable and I think the idea in a way of retirement we were talking about that earlier You're retired but you're not slowing down. You're working more hours now than you did full time.
Speaker 2:I think that in life we can get into a mentality that there's a finish line. You're almost just coasting until you hit that finish line. There's no finish line in reality unless you. I'll be 45 this year. I still feel young, I still go to the gym, still do the things and there's still things that I want to accomplish and I just for me. It's hard to think that you're just if you go into anything, putting oh, I'm going to get to this point and then I'm done and I was going to chill for the rest of my life. It's like why do you want to chill for the rest of your life? There's so much stuff to do and there is.
Speaker 1:You brought up a good point about the self help book. Self, that's, that's one, that's one person helping themselves right. The best leadership books I've read are the ones where I can learn some way to be a better leader for other people. Cause a leader, you lead others and I I really like the idea of we need books. They're like hey, you know what? You're going to be a follower. You're going to follow a leader and you're going to get their traits to make you a better leader. You need you need something other than just self. I do.
Speaker 1:I believe leaders are born. I think some are born. Some have this innate ability to just get out there and be like damn, I want to follow that person to hell and back. Some people need the books to learn. But when you're reading these self-help books and it's all about me, me, me. You put the work in to help you, you, you. It's never. I don't really, you know. I remember one book. I think it was like the Mission, the men and me. At one time it was like hey, you know what people in the men yep, the mission, the men and me. You're the third on there should be the mission. You figure out what the mission is how you're going to lead your men, or how you're going to lead your troops or women, whatever whoever's following you and there's another book called yeah, leaders eat last, and the idea that comes out of that for me is a good, true leader is a servant.
Speaker 2:Right, they're a follower in a way not in this negative connotation, but they're following their guys, their needs. They've learned that. It's not about me, and one thing I guess that's a bit of blessing, but it's been really eye-opening is good. Leadership starts in the home. Right, it's because I I don't know I've caught myself for the last years talking about I'm gonna do this, do this. I'm not a big social media dude. I'm not a guy that's like look at me or whatever. We do things to please and for people that you're never going to meet or whatever. That takes time away from what you're doing at home. You want to look at what impact are you having at home, teaching that version of leadership or that version of how to be a good follower to your kids, and that's been something that's just been on my mind this year.
Speaker 1:It's follow through and you know like, and we can get right back into the books and stuff and be in the burnout and I love the title of book. Listen, I've been, I've been a fan of yours for a while.
Speaker 1:I've actually, I've actually read your books, which is crazy for me, which I appreciate and I read burnout, but I know I talked to you, I don't know six months ago, five months ago, eight months ago, and we're talking about, like, how you feel about the writing, as being someone who writes and you need to be refreshed. And one thing I liked about this book Burnout is that it's not typical. It's not. You know, I could tell that you wrote it from a different perspective, not like everybody's an operator and not everybody's this, and that everything you wrote it as in like hey, you know what? This is a different type of story.
Speaker 1:This is one I want to tell it's not cliche, and I've been using a lot with a lot of different authors. I've had on the past few times, had taylor moron, had meg gardner, and their books aren't cliche, and that's one thing I'm really getting into is books that are just they stand out because they're different. I feel like I'm part of the scene, I'm in these mountains, I'm not like doing, like you know, urban warfare anywhere, but it's like it's something very cool. How did you, how did you transition into this? Though, that's what I'm talking about well for me.
Speaker 2:I've had the idea of wanting to write um, a book about aper, which I didn't know anything about for a while. But I also had this need or this feeling, or perhaps a realization, that I hadn't put any skin in the game in my books in a while, if that makes sense. I hadn't taken a risk and when I went and looked back for me it was always thinking about the contract for the next book and then struggling through the deadline or whatever. And you know, there I look back over all the books that I've written. So this would be my 10th one and the one that I still get royalties from and I still get um. You know a lot of um emails from people in those two first two that I wrote, especially clear, my fire very book that I wrote. I just lost a little video there for a second. Hopefully it'll come back. But there we go and I'm wondering why that was. I think I've gotten. I think I write a little better now and I've gotten better in the craft, but why is that one still so well received and people still reach out to me? And I think it's because it was my first book and I was. It was all risk.
Speaker 2:I was taking a risk and there was so much of myself and my experiences in that. And um, I guess as you progress you know it's like when I was in the army I'd like to shoot before I joined the army. Then I go to the army and I start shooting and like, go into the range and the army is not fun, no, and go into the range and law enforcement's not fun. But then you get out of it and you're, you don't ever have to shoot again. And all of a sudden you're back on the range, training harder than you've ever trained. And, um, because you remember it's no longer a job. You remember why you like doing it in the first place. And I think that for Burnout I took a risk. I knew nothing about smoke jumping. I knew nothing about fire. The only goal that I set for myself at the beginning was this main character would not have any military background.
Speaker 1:And I love that. I love that aspect of it. They don't have the military background, but they do have a background. I love that. I love that aspect of it. They don't have the military background, but they do have a background.
Speaker 2:Which is kind of key.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you had to give them some sort of skill.
Speaker 2:You got to do something because I don't think I'm good enough. Yet this is a stepping stone book, trying to learn different things and see what I can do and what I can't. I tell a visual, action-based story and I know that I'm not as good as a wordsmith as like Taylor Moore or Meg Garner. You know, garner, she's like a fantastic author. The Heat prequel that she wrote was amazing. You know just I can't.
Speaker 1:even I was amazing, and you know what? I just started her own sub-series. I'm on book four already. I can't stop, she's incredibly talented.
Speaker 2:She's absolutely incredible, and so when I read my stuff, I don't particularly, and I don't know if other authors feel this way, no, but Josh, I've got to stop you there, but oh, because between like and we interviewed taylor moran.
Speaker 1:Taylor's books, the texas is a character, right with your with with burnout, I feel like the smoke jumping, the commute, the fire is the character and that's what I wanted to.
Speaker 2:I feel that way too, and I feel that the book began it. That's where the book started to go in itself, and but at the same time, you know you want to write an action type book and I don't.
Speaker 2:It's like, well, ok, I don't know how this would work if it was just a regular dude who didn't know how to shoot back or do anything, so you have to give him some type of background. Who didn't know how to shoot back or do anything, so you have to give him some type of background. And what was cool about that was finally getting to kind of throw some law enforcement stuff into a book with the DEA character and all of that.
Speaker 1:I like the. You know we'll have to do some technical instruction sometime later on with these DEA people and Bureau of Land Management types. There's interesting things out there, man. There's so much crap. I mean, there is so much you could write about in that sphere, and not just DEA, but like BLM and like the park rangers and land management. Jeez, man, there's like 50 million stories. What's going on in the parks, man?
Speaker 2:Well, the issue was is that I assumed, getting into the book, that I would find dirt about the forest service?
Speaker 2:you know I there was no need. I didn't have because I had to fake the funk on a few things, uh, but I figured, you know, they'd be a bad guy. Within the forest department there's, you know, some graft and corruption and I did what I consider very deep research. There was nothing that I needed. You know, there was realities happening where you got drugs going on there and you got outside, but the forest service really doesn't get too deep into that. They kind of outsource, like handling this drugs and stuff. And I, you know, read some books about a guy that one book by a guy that was on a task force at fault, like these growth sites, for most of what I found the force.
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