Poetry and Beatboxing in Ireland with Mícheál Ó Súilleabháin

Episode #130

Summary: In this conversation Mícheál Ó Súilleabháin , a renowned poet, singer, and speaker from Ireland, discusses the power and purpose of poetry. He explains that good poetry is often descriptive, instructive, and inward-looking, inviting readers to feel and connect with their own experiences. Poetry can be therapeutic and healing, instilling patience, silence, and solidarity.  Mícheál recites a poem by W.B. Yeats and discusses the personal and honest nature of poetry. He also mentions other influential Irish poets such as Thomas Moore and Oscar Wilde. Overall, poetry offers a unique perspective and allows us to explore the invisible aspects of our existence.

Takeaways

• Good poetry is descriptive, instructive, and inward-looking, inviting readers to connect with their own experiences.
• Poetry can be therapeutic and healing, instilling patience, silence, and solidarity.
• Poetry offers a unique perspective and allows us to explore the invisible aspects of our existence.
• Irish poets such as W.B. Yeats, Thomas Moore, and Oscar Wilde have made significant contributions to the world of poetry. Authenticity and being true to oneself are essential in the creative process.
• Creativity can be a form of therapy and a way to express and process emotions.
• The Irish culture has a rich history of poetry, music, and creativity.
• Beatboxing and breathing exercises can be used as tools for self-expression and creativity.

Aha Moments

• "The act of reading a poem is an act of patience."
• "Reciting poetry from memory creates a deep reverie."
• "Ireland is synonymous with art, music, and creativity."

Guest: Mícheál Ó Súilleabháin

Social Media

Website: https://www.owenandmoley.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MichealMol

Transcript

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (00:19.54)
hello from ireland everybody it is really wonderful to be here and to talk about the danger the dangerous term purpose adrian you're a very virtuous person to delve into such a such a precipice of a of a theme it's very very nice and to those listening god knows what where they are laying their energies right about now cleaning the house being purposeful of course or maybe just staring into space

adrian_starks (00:46.316)
who knows who knows you're right it's such a deep topic and speaking of topic we're going to dive into the topic today of poetry and a deeper meaning in life for our audience here today of cours you're probably wondering who my hall is and i'm going to explain that here just a little bit we're going to give you all of the things about me all the reason why he's on the show today before we do that make sure that you're all downloaded this podcast into your favorite podcast platform of choice for our new listeners today go to our website your purpose

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (00:47.7)
m m

adrian_starks (01:16.396)
dot life join our p community and join our you tube channel where we'll have weekly videos coming out and here's the thing i'm not releasing any full videos on social media to catch these full videos you have to go to our outube channel hit that subscription bell with a purpose so that you're notified because theres a lot of great conversations going on in that community even after the interviews now back to the special guest of the hour meallusullevan there are so many things to say about him but let's just say first that he attracts

ma because of who he is and this is who he is he's a renowned poet singer and speaker from limerick ireland his artistry identity lives on the thresh show between things he's a master of several works of music and poetical performances and compositions his way in the world exists between laughter and poignancy from a family steeped in irish traditional music and academia he gravitated to performance very early on beginning as a drummer he studied music at university coll

a cork he graduated to an m a and i'm gonna say this tho music cology the musicology say that twenty times in a row at irish world academic academy of music and dance before teaching as a freelance music educator with get this specialization and wrap and human beat boxing vocal precussions now that's pretty impressive there me i work up to the show my friend how you doing

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (02:45.18)
thanks for the introduction agrienyes i've i've found the least expected things to be the most purposeful in my life definitely i found myself at the cross roads between things and when one does as we all do one needs patients in so many ways so and a faith like a deep faith in that that our purpose will come to the four by as you said being being myself i suppose musically my parents and me

i got into hip hop and naturally a lot of your parents out there will know that your children will will prove themselves by running as far away from your interests as possible before returning with their tails between their legs to to inherit the wisdom that you have curated for them over the years so i got into hip hop early when i was in boarding school the great global art form and cultural form of hip hop and it helped me for held me for a long

time until i became a singer really after my drumming days and i inherited a great store of songs from my mother norine who's a spiritual singer so she sings medieval latin gregorian chant in a very irish traditional way those ethna music colleges sat there will be raising their eyebrows right now nd i also got into a lot of church music english language hymns irish traditional song and so i came to

as an adult as an adult really so that's a whole thing when one sees a person practice anything spiritual musically or otherwise or anything traditional musically or otherwise one presumes that one has been indoctrinated from an early age but i came a yeah i came to these ancient traditions as an adult i really chose it and in

adrian_starks (04:36.176)
right or your background is your influence

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (04:45.18)
in many ways i often credit my parents separation to the inheritance of that music from my mother because as many of your listeners know when a relationship transforms children and loved ones are able to forward an individual relationship with with the two people who have cleaved from each other and so i was spending a lot of time with my mom alone and after dinner we would

she would teach us some some songs some latin gregory and chant very ostensibly very simple melodies like cry that repeats nine times three times for the father three times for the on and three times for the holy spirit with little ornamentations and changes in its melody so it's very

meditative music and coming coming at it after my beat boxing days was as definitely a very restorative and a great blessing in my life and so that sense of purpose really came came to me as i decided to collect those songs and collect irish traditional songs as much as i could and curate a store of pre existing but ancient music and and that then led me on and that made

quite purposeful yeah be quite purpose now in terms of my purpose at that time though i was teaching human beat box and wrap workshops in irish schools so go on

adrian_starks (06:15.116)
what a journey

adrian_starks (06:26.156)
okay so before we get into that i'm very interest to hear about that i want l we're going to talk a little bit of her about the so you're so the background here and i love how you said to that when two parents separate that it can be tough and this is part of the challenge to the human i call it sometimes to human mess that we have in our lives that can bring some type of process to us that becomes a purpose so with that you gravitated to your mom and the music and that heavily influen

you you're from ireland you're from limerick ireland on the reference map here for the listeners today across the world where is that located in ireland whereabout

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (07:06.74)
limerick is in the southwest of ireland at the mouth of the river shannon which is the longest river in ireland or england great fine proud river and it kind of creates a spine of ireland at the shannon river that's one of the reasons that the vikings and everybody were able to infultrate it quite they went from the atlantic ocean onto the fresh water and were able to drag their boats up into the heart of ireland and it really was an information super highway

back in the day so i'm still here beside the shannon river right now but ireland interestingly is actually much more north than in its latitude than even the irish realize we're actually directly across from in an american sense seattle so seattle and ireland are on the same latitude so we're actually quite north right interesting so we're beside each other in a certain way in another way on

adrian_starks (07:57.156)
i'm in seattle

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (08:06.48)
so that's why it rains a lot of course over there in seattle the rain sets in a lot because you don't have the sea wind as much you know but here we're right out in the middle of the atlantic so we're very very famous for the weather being very changeable in ireland hence the rainbows irish rainbows it's always moving and the sun is always coming through the clouds so they say if you don't like the weather in ireland wait five minutes that's what they say and i suspect

that this changeability has had has had an effect on our psyche on our purpose in the world were very changeable people and we're not

adrian_starks (08:47.736)
speaking of ireland and being changeable like you were saying the the resiliency i would say that you have of the adaptability to change like you were just saying earlier if you don't like the weather wait five minutes so you never used to just one thing and i think that comes across two as how you're influenced in your area of seeing changes and things evolve in short amounts of time which gets us into the idea of having something to report about your environment the poetry ape

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (09:10.)
yeah yeah

adrian_starks (09:17.616)
t of it and i believe this is why your your background is so huge and it believe it or not when i was doing some research meal i really thought about how poetry has impacted me in my life and how i grew up with poetry but then i thought about wait a minute how what i want to ask you what is good poetry because everyone when i think of poetry think of rhyme and meter they think of the basic you know the soft

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (09:18.76)
m

adrian_starks (09:47.676)
loving poems but there are a lot of powerful poetical pieces out that they have shaped and moved the planet literally in your sense in your experience as a specialist in this what is good poetry

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (10:05.66)
it's a good question there are many aspects you can combat poetry from yesterday only i read a quote from wallace stevens who is a great poet and he said that poets are the priests of the invisible and of course in ireland the poetry was held as as a very spiritual vocation since it was it was exalted as as a very specialist thing on

adrian_starks (10:19.616)
hm the priest of the invisible

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (10:35.42)
being priests of the invisible the invisible is solidarity in my view i was thinking about this quote and solidarity is poetry like music gets to it as well and often i was exasperated with the music culture that we have so many of our songs are sad our breakup songs you know and that's because there's great solidarity and invitation in them and i find that go

adrian_starks (11:03.856)
hm

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (11:05.2)
poetry is the same thing it brings a person physically into an experience that we've all had usually in private so it can be a very confessional experience but it's also very invitational at the same time so it invites us to feel a physical feeling a memory in a sense to bring us to a place that and after that solid

adrian_starks (11:33.136)
hm

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (11:35.16)
arity that you're not the only one you know do not be afraid of course is what i think good poetry inherently says of course when the world of poetry though is for me very enigmatic for many readers it's so impenetrable because it doesn't seem to be about that much a lot of it

adrian_starks (11:41.496)
m hm

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (12:05.48)
a lot of it is irrelevant it feels at the beginning and of course then i come from a tradition where good poetry is

almost descriptive and instructive it's inward looking it almost comes from a prayerful or interior sense of what it is to be alive and i was thinking then about that being the priest of the invisible that our own very existence is invisible of course we see the world around us but

that feeling we've never seen ourselves on a non physical level that feeling that we have which is more than just the tendrils and the skin and bone and blood that sense of purpose we have indeed is invisible so poetry goes towards feeling that rocking boat on on on the sea of stars just cries tries to capture a moment i suspect yesterday

adrian_starks (13:12.216)
i like that

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (13:17.16)
i came across there's the most famous poet of the last century in ireland is called shamous hen and he died now must be a good almost ten years ago and yesterday i came across his high c and a hic very famous japanese short poetic form that of course the japanese just got really really into for a couple of millennium i presume they still are into it i hope so anyway and have it yesterday and i remember my father very often

died around four years ago and this hi coo is the first of january nineteen eighty seven by james heney and it says dangerous pavements but i faced the ice this year with my father's stick

adrian_starks (13:56.856)
m

adrian_starks (14:07.196)
m that's it

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (14:07.4)
dangerous pavements but i face the ice this year with my father's stick

so what does that imply of course so many of us listening immediately imply that he has lost his father that this is the first year he faces a winter without his father or that he's constantly remembering his father maybe he lost his father many many years ago but this year he's found or has decided to take his father's stick he is becoming his father so you're trying to say things and bring people to a physical space

adrian_starks (14:38.096)
his father

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (14:44.62)
that moment when we're leaving the house and we see the ice and we remember our dead loved ones um it's a very ineffable very challenging art for to try and capture something like that and this sense of purpose that the poet has i've come to learn is that you're always you're like a magpie your your your antenna are always out so you're always looking for that those little shards of meaning those little lightning strikes of meaning or

when you see through the veil of the normal pragmatic life and you you have to have that faith in yourself that you are purposeful or that you are you are worth expressing these very very deep currents of interiority that we're all experiencing

adrian_starks (15:31.896)
i love how you share that poem with me because with us that very short point and what is it all is it called a hic

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (15:39.2)
hi cool yes i

adrian_starks (15:40.356)
hi hi co it was very short to the point and actually one of my questions for you today was can poetry be therapeutic and healing i think in that point it was a healing process for him to be able to write that and to acknowledge the fact that his level it passed but that he's willing to carry on and he's inspiring others down that slippery path that may be following all over the place and his is what i'm getting just all of a sudden just from

what you share with me that there is hope for them if they find some type of purpose that stick that meaning to get them along do you feel that poetry can help people find a new direction in life after a dramatic life change or experience

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (16:18.88)
yeah

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (16:36.06)
i do but in a counter intuitive way it can instill patients the act of reading a poem is the active patients really you're doing something that's holding a mirror up to a mirror of what you're doing now it's a refraction of the time it's a very complex art form and i think it can one of the most value

things poetry does for me is that it nstills silence it instills patients and it instills solidarity don't worry so that when we are going through something there's that great phrase if you're going through hell keep going which is more of an over wife still is quite poetic but i think it's not attributed to anybody in particular but there is that sense in poetry it's always

adrian_starks (17:16.216)
hm

adrian_starks (17:25.735)
don't look back

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (17:35.86)
oken to me that there is a sense of heartbreak for instance hen as well was so focused on his own memories of childhood for a large part of his poetry yet there's so much solidarity and identification in it for us as we grapple with finding our own purpose that it's it's so beautiful to know that

we're not supposed to know what's going on so i was aware when i was coming on your purpose podcast that really poetry is is anti purpose it's got anti purpose force within it because we're so in a sense obsessed with it of course we are why wouldn't we be were we didn't ask to be here and we don't know where we're going so we're reading the words of each other trying to

adrian_starks (18:24.576)
hm

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (18:35.82)
go beyond the words to find something so when your question about making change in life and reading poetry during that change um looking backward and getting a sense of time is a great power in poetry i have a poem called turusdanum and that's the irish language tours the m so tours is a journey and the annum is of your soul

adrian_starks (18:58.056)
m

terestootum

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (19:06.26)
one journey of your soul and it really talks about this patients and tries to diffuse a sense of purpose if you will or a sense of hindsight in real time so if only of course we could have this sense of merciful hindsight on ourselves in real time i often wonder and i think that poetry does this it gives us a sense of perspective and up

activity but also allows us to identify and project with abandon and first on them begins with oftentimes oftentimes the step backward allows the soul catch up oftentimes the step backward allows the soul catch up so that all our happy hind sights harmonize and wisdom builds and share your luck be miserly

only with misfortune for in each size mix shutter we learn to trust the ground again humble again knowingly broken on repentedly wounded proud to bear pain laying claim to the joy factory of your body no more tariffs or sanctions wage cuts and glass ceilings conventions expenses paid nor lanyards and company position this way you can live in ways others

simply will not develop sides of you others simply would not so feel the rhythm beyond the beat begin with a break and allow your soul

adrian_starks (20:50.016)
beautiful this is why i feel poetry is has a deep meaning and i know you mentioned about it having sort of an anti purpose i actually think that poetry could have a purpose depending on where people are in their lives there was a poem that i read called the serenity prayer once more of a prayer serenity prayer i on that point over and over and over again in my heaven most going to on the most challenging moments in my life is probably over thirteen years ago and that poem saved me right

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (21:06.46)
m

adrian_starks (21:19.196)
i sected that point left and right and i looked at each phrase and i really questioned myself on it and i really found my answer not the poem's answer but my answer my my purpose within that point itself and i find that it is quite therapeutic and healing for people and what you said was beautiful someone's listening to this today ad they're going to be healed by that also what i love about what you're doing with poetry i was on your instagram and i saw that you recited a point

by correctly i'm wrong in this he's considered to be the national poet of ireland w b yates right by saying that last night yates yates and this point i believe was called growing old i think it was the phrase of when you're old i probably watched that maybe fifteen times and i was really inspired by that point and i thought to myself hey i want to talk to you about it and what inspired you

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (21:57.08)
yeah yeah yeah

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (22:03.74)
yes when you were all yeah

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (22:09.82)
gryeahit'sa

yes

adrian_starks (22:19.196)
to bring that point up on your on your social media channel

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (22:23.38)
good question w b yates is is yeah he is the rock star a ghost now died in the early nineteen hundreds he was a very esoteric man but also very pragmatic from moneyed background he set up the irish national theater the abbey theater n on the side but he was very much a full time poet and

adrian_starks (22:34.056)
m

adrian_starks (22:46.756)
m

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (22:52.92)
a great story about w b used to walk around talking to himself around dublin city and dublin is quite small you know so he was a big six foot five man and he'd walk around talking to himself a lot of his glass is very very very duty man and there's an arts club there on marian square in dublin and he walked in there and he sat down and he had the three course meal that everyone had and all the other artists were there and everyone knew to gravitate towards him because he was a polly math great wise man used to talk a lot and he finished it

desert and then they took his dessert plate and then the waitress walked by and he says i don't know have i eaten yet and his dinner guests or his dinner mates as a joke said oh no you haven't william butter you haven't eaten at all and was okay and he had all three courses again so whatever what that says about that about him i do not know but they did say that his wisdom was not as sharp for the second sitting of dinner that

was for the first which is a very strange strange story of w b yates but when you are old i first heard it recited by a friend of mine who's a great forest of nature guy called shawn flynn and he just set up set about committing poems to memory which is a great practice that all of us can do committing poems to memory even the short little hic

adrian_starks (23:54.896)
that is hilarious

adrian_starks (24:18.716)
okay

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (24:23.08)
or anything because it really is just about a matter of time there's no secret that i have unless some people listening will have a photographic memory they know that they can learn things and recite things but even then once you have that there's a whole inner language of rhythm and intonation and intentionality in the poem that that one can set their not so great skill as possibly a so so i saw it live performed

when i first decided to learn it and and yates uses rhythm in his poetry he's much more at that time the poets were quite incantational and would use rhythms and and rhyme and kind of set you up for a rhyme and then not give you the rhyme and they give you the rhyme in the second kind of like early rap really they were very much wrap stars at the time as well they were kind of rock are so and when you were old it goes like this by double

adrian_starks (24:59.036)
hm

adrian_starks (25:11.776)
hm

adrian_starks (25:16.096)
i was going to say yeah yeah they are rock stars of their time

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (25:22.92)
bates when you are old and grey and full of sleep and nodding by the fire take down this book and read and dream of the soft look your eyes once had and love their shadows deep how many loved your moments of glad grace and loved you with love false or true but one loved the pilgrim soul in you and love the sorrows of your changing face and so bending

down beside the glowing bars murmur a little sadly how love fled and paced upon the mountains overhead and hid its face amid a cloud of stars when you were old and gray and full of sleep and nodding by the fire take down this book and read and dream of the soft look your eyes once had and of their shadows deep how many loved your moments of glad grace and loved you with love false or true but one love the pilgrim's soul in you and love the sorrow

adrian_starks (26:06.316)
beautiful

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (26:22.9)
of your changing face and so bending down beside the glowing bars murmur a little sadly how love fled and paced upon the mountains overhead and hid its face amid a cloud of stars

adrian_starks (26:38.316)
beautiful that's powerful

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (26:39.52)
and yates was in a life long unrequited relationship with a woman called maud gone he's very famously remembered in ireland they'll never remember you for the good things that always remember you for the stuff you didn't want to be remembered for but look at bono for instance but yates yes he was very famous for offering his offer or asking for the hand of marriage from a certain lady two or three times and

adrian_starks (26:54.996)
oh

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (27:09.42)
getting turned down each time so there is there is an honesty there is an honesty in his poetry and again like hen and like all poetry as well it's intensely personal a lot of the writers out there the great advice to writers is write what you know because you know you can't get that visceral authentic feeling if you don't write exactly what you know how can you describe anything that you haven't experienced

adrian_starks (27:11.656)
that's that's that's powerful yeah i like that

adrian_starks (27:35.056)
the truth personal truth right that that personal truth you can't speak what you don't know because it comes across a certain way in the feeling behind it that point itself is very powerful in the fact that ou haven't memorized and i like to exercise you told us to do for our listeners today find some point or point that resonates with you start memorizing it start from the beginning maybe memorize a couple of sentences then go into a paragraph and then just eventually you memorize the whole thing and then start

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (27:43.76)
yes

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (28:00.5)
yes

adrian_starks (28:04.996)
linked as you're saying it and speaking of poems you inspired me when i saw you recite that point on instagram and i thought to myself well when i have meal on the show i need to let him know also who has inspired me through poems and growing up i was infactuated with poetry let's just start first with greek poetry homer now these are different types of poems for our listeners today these are more of epic

poms story based points but i was really inspired by how they wrote during that time but if we go into actual poetry now my angelo was a big one for me langston hues the harlem renaissance was very influential upon my writing and poetry robert frost let's go with some poets roomy hafis persian poets we can go with m let's see rudolf kipling was a was a good poet i love his poient called if one of my favorites of

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (29:04.4)
yes yes well you should commit that one that one that you commit that one to memory that's quite tricky

adrian_starks (29:04.956)
all time and and then i thought

adrian_starks (29:10.476)
that that is quite tricky but i also wanted to bring some also respect and tribute to your native country because i thought about the poems i've read and i said wait a minute if i read a lot of poems there has to be some other poets that are from ireland that i have i didn't know they were from ireland and i did my research on this and so of course w beats came up and there was oscar wild which he was controversial but

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (29:29.96)
yes

adrian_starks (29:40.556)
but over all he was an amazing writer and had a lot of national claim for his works there's james joyce jonathan swift thomas more those are the ones that i remember that i've read poems from the other there's many other irish poets but these are the the top of my list that i have come across before but i didn't know that they were from ireland and i was like whoa

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (29:54.06)
m

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (30:06.04)
great mentioned thomas moore their thomas more was a song writer and a poet and a real rock star before the advent of recorded music and when they sold sheets so these sheets of manuscript would go out to every living room in in western europe and england and ireland and he was a huge star and when he would sing women would faint and quite a slight man and yes glad glad you mentioned that

adrian_starks (30:30.496)
uh uh

i didn't know that about him

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (30:36.56)
and oscar wild he was another great novelist and poet and i but a different type of poetry than the quip the after dinner quotes that he has are so so complex my favorite was beginning oh yes to love oneself is the beginning of a life long love affair

so to love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong love affair i love the word the beginning there because we all start from a space of not loving ourselves you know so the genius both rhythmically to love one's self is the beginning of a lifelong love affair the word beginning there is rhythmically and intellectually just a stroke of genius you know

adrian_starks (31:05.516)
whoa

adrian_starks (31:11.296)
hm

adrian_starks (31:29.196)
it is he had a quote to about what was it

about

were i don't know don't know why it's not ringing let me just check here quickly i don't do this often but i'm gonna check on my phone he cause i have to bring this quote up because it's a powerful quote yeah there's a quote that he's very known for but many people when they quote it they do not give him credit for it and they will just put yeah they'll put things up and they'll just put their picture up and i'm like that's not your quote stop it let's see here oscar wilde

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (31:42.68)
hm

the gutter in the stars possibly

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (31:51.58)
two plants

well that happens yes

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (32:04.94)
the only the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked

adrian_starks (32:10.256)
exactly you know it's like pay homage to people and give them their respect let's see where is this quote there was some quote about

adrian_starks (32:24.736)
okay maybe i'm not finding it now oh it's something about not comparing yourself to people there's only one yours i don't know how he oh yeah here it is here it is so simple be yourself everyone else has already taken was i not remembering that

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (32:27.7)
he's elusive

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (32:34.36)
okay

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (32:38.)
good good yes yes

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (32:46.18)
well even the word already like there was no need for him to put the word already in so i don't know where he was quoted or where he first wrote them down but there it's very conscious but he's what he's doing there for sure everyone else is already

adrian_starks (33:01.036)
yeah my favorite book that he did was what book was it so

the picture of dorian gray now a huge book once again a lot of controversy behind his before his time and he revealed things that to this day people can see and accept and be like yeah that's that's what's bad about that but during that time we had to realize that that was not talked about that was like not to be said publicly but he did it anyway out of that part of himself that wanted to express now speaking of expression we all end

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (33:11.36)
uh yes

adrian_starks (33:40.076)
all this wonderful poetry coming out of ireland why is ireland synonymous with art music and creativity we see these common themes happening it these great poets and even yourself what do you have a special thing that you're drinking there or what's happening in ireland that's bringing this creativity out

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (33:59.98)
yeah yeah there's memory everywhere in ireland you know i think in some countries newer countries like america of course this is all in our minds but there's a sense of belonging and inheritance ancestry that a lot of people in america think is missing and of course it is linearly i suppose empirically not written down or told us because it's a new country like you were displaced geographically on some levels but

in ireland of course you could you'll literally be going down the road looking at the ditch or the hedge and then the hedge will part and you will see a huge forgotten monastery ruin in the middle of a church in the middle of a field and then it'll be gone again you'll be on the way to the airport and you will see a huge ruined castle like right beside the highway that nobody owns that was the seat of a serious

bit of power back in the day these the anything from the eleven hundreds on really so to be irish is to be invaded to be adaptable i think you mentioned earlier to change with the times like dublin at the moment their calling of the european silicon valley because all of the european headquarters of all of the american companies are in dublin and that's very indicative to me of the new

chapter you know like ireland was the seat of so much of the wisdom industry in terms of the monastic education that was held here throughout before and after the dark ages they say it was a breakdown empower in europe and ireland was largely untouched ireland too though has a sense of ancestry and belonging i suppose because the romans and the greeks they didn't get to ireland they

ame into england and then they built hadrian's wall which is a huge wall up around scotland to keep the scots at bay and they didn't come to ireland because ireland was full of oak forest so there was just nothing but forest here so the roman steel wouldn't go very far and you get ambushed and then it was a bit colder then so it was a bit icy and the italians and greeks didn't like that so our social structures our sense of culture was unbroken then as well

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (36:30.22)
so that creativity is a safe place so that history is being told so there's a there's a traumatic history and those of us you know a dramatic history can be used or is needs creativity to vent it there's a sense of exasperation the irish have a very dialectic or contradictory relationship with with purpose because you see all of these rude

and you hear of all the invasions and all of the dark chapters and revolutions in ireland over the years and you're wondering should i really go and chain myself to offense somewhere or should i just waited out and and write some poems so we we took refuge in our music and we've taken refuge in in in performance i think we as a people we sing when we get together you know like when

adrian_starks (37:14.996)
m hm

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (37:29.76)
music or the pubs close people will start singing and for us that's not unusual but everyone has a song so when my family get together everyone sings the same song just one song but that means we can we can definitely keep the party going a little bit because and everyone has to do their song or else everyone or else we have to go home so you have you have to do it so some families have that of course all over the world but in ireland it's very normal for for a musically enact family to start singing together and that

adrian_starks (37:40.196)
m

adrian_starks (37:49.436)
yes

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (37:59.86)
that's very normal so and the poetry then is more um is not a strong in the last few years we do love our poets but there's not much recitation of poetry going on really and i would recommend your listeners to go on to youtube or anywhere really and type in the famous poets reciting their own poetry like w bates reciting his poetry it's quite performative and incantational

and that sense of performance in poetry has really kind of it's almost left in terms of its being a virtuasic art i work a lot with a poet called david white and he has had an extraordinary memory david white is based in seattle as well and on whidby island and is an extraordinary memory nd he recites all of his poetry is his poetry and other people's poetry from memory

adrian_starks (38:42.696)
hm

adrian_starks (38:49.856)
okay very familiar with that

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (38:59.92)
and immediately one is and i often think of thomas moore when i'm witnessing david perform because what he's doing is what people were doing in the eighteen hundreds seventeen hundreds there reciting from memory and in fact the poet has been reciting from memory for thousands and thousands of years and that in itself sends our primal brain if you wish to call it that for want of a better term or our spiritual brain into it into

adrian_starks (38:59.936)
wow

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (39:29.82)
deep reverie when someone isn't reading when someone isn't looking down when someone has been has their chin up for a certain amount of time parts of our brain begin to trust this person a lot which is why tell prompters have gone through technological revolutions since since politicians have ve come into being you'd swear

adrian_starks (39:42.676)
it does

adrian_starks (39:50.036)
i'm glad you brought that one up to tello prompters because there's a lot of people out there let's just be honest here they are not memorizing anything they're reading from tlopromwe're not talking about poets we're talking about some people on on t v and we know they're not saying that directly from their head or their heart this coming from a tello prompter and this is what separates what you're doing what we're doing

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (40:02.06)
yes

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (40:08.9)
it does well it doesn't separate because our primal mind for want of a better term i have only come up with that term now for some reason but our our innocent mind is is fooled and we're happy to be fooled we're thinking that the newscaster is telling us something off off the top of off their chest you know off the cough but it works you know so that's how powerful it is so when you're in a room with someone and they've they're speaking from memory or or not from or intuitive

but not from a page or a script something happens in the room by chemically i think and that begins to create a sense of listening that that is just unrivaled it's it's story time around the fire you know it's that very ancient feeling and one feels one feels purpose when one is listening on that level when one is being spoken to intentionally and again committing things to memory

adrian_starks (41:02.716)
absolutely

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (41:09.56)
it seems like an easy trick but it's very intentional you have to do it you have to imagine and manifest you have to keep imagining that you will create a safe space for someone by doing this that's the incentive that i use when i commit to memory and i experience resistance i was listening to the great writer stephen press field i think his name is stephen but at a yeah talking about yeah talks a lot about resistance and why we don't sit down and

adrian_starks (41:31.676)
yeah stephen pressfile he has a couple of books out there's

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (41:38.86)
every day because we're coming up against a very a very stubborn part of ourselves that that just wants to you know reach out and clean the house or scroll on the phone and not change your life yea and like yes even an amazing man and he talks about his own struggle with with with with sitting down to meet the muse so that faith in one's self

adrian_starks (41:50.816)
he's a book called the war of art is that his book called the war of art the war of art yeah that s that's a good one that talks about the creativity a lot right

adrian_starks (42:06.196)
m hm

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (42:08.7)
faith in the worth of one's self that's all inner work that we can do and for myself you know i was a musician and i was a song writer and i tried the music industry thing when you tried to be purposeful as a young musician you go to the music industry and you get stuck in and quickly realized that even if people did want to buy my songs which they didn't thankfully that they wouldn't probably have any money to do it anyway because at that time

adrian_starks (42:35.436)
hm

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (42:38.66)
i'm thirty eight years old thirty nine tomorrow and at that time you know like thank you very much at that time you know the streaming services were coming on even though we had good representation there was just no no way forward so that felt and stung like a failure in my life in my mid twenties into my late twenties when that i did let go of that dream and i was really really good at performing you know a really good at being on stage and i was

adrian_starks (42:44.296)
birthday

adrian_starks (43:04.416)
hm

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (43:08.68)
very very funny so

adrian_starks (43:10.216)
well let's talk about your your performance let's let's go with that because let's not i know you're being humble but i'm going to go ahead and let the audience know today that you share the stages with with many great people like russell crow allen doyle let's you know stephen spill burg let's scott grim's sting there's so many big names that came up and i was gonna bring this up to and i'm like well great let's talk about that because having that experience you know having this kind of this can

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (43:13.46)
yeah

adrian_starks (43:40.076)
on with startum and then this didn't work out but now this purpose that you've created for yourself is something that you're a part of that you feel very connected to for a person listening today that dream may not happen or something within the dream may put you into a different path what do they do mean when they have was that a moment where the door closed or you're just sitting down saying this

here is fun but this is not for me i need to have this over here

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (44:16.98)
yes and it was that but also a realization of how much work that those people do to get to where they are so they did get lucky in a sense but they're so prolific sting still goes to the studio so now we just performed with him once in new york did i did some bead box for every step you take and at a concert there with russell crow and met him after i was it was a big

adrian_starks (44:25.096)
m hm

adrian_starks (44:29.276)
yeah

adrian_starks (44:42.696)
that's awesome because you do that that can you show us a little bit of i mean on an put you on the spot here but earlier you were talking about be boxing and i kindly took that conversation to a different direction i wanted to get back to that so i have forgot about it my listeners like man drew you didn't even get back to that

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (44:47.08)
sure yeah yeah sure sure thing

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (44:57.2)
i'll teach you i'll teach the listener something teach if you're still listening we've gotten through all the philo philosophical stuff and we're definitely yeah we're gonna we're gonna go o teach you going to teach you like a somatic breathing exercise it's called human beat boxing and well and it's easy because the classic nemonic of beat boxing is boots and cats boots and cats and boots and cats and boots and cats but i have another montnemonic which is

adrian_starks (45:03.276)
we had to that we had to that was a topic

adrian_starks (45:13.476)
never gon have some fun

adrian_starks (45:19.916)
boots and cats okay

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (45:24.3)
a puff cat which is basically just putting an f on your kick drum so you put an f on every single one of them that then join your high hat which is so now you've got so that's puff and then cut now your cat this is going to blow your mind listeners because your cat is actually this is where the breathing the ventriloquism other comes in so listen and see if you can tell what i'm doing

adrian_starks (45:41.096)
okay okay

adrian_starks (46:02.456)
oh okay

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (46:04.36)
so what i'm doing there is your cat your as it sounds but your is actually an inhale breath both sides of the back of your tongue

adrian_starks (46:13.256)
hm

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (46:14.96)
with a bit of attack as they say so you're actually creating this kind of circular breath which is which is all outward and which is but to inhale breath and at the end there i put in like an echo

adrian_starks (46:17.416)
movie to tak okay

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (46:33.72)
so all i did was breath in eleven times in a row now all of your life you've been told not to breathe in eleven times in a row so at first at first it can be really really it's a complete in verse of how one is supposed to in fact we're supposed to hide our inhale breath completely at all points in the day and night a snoring is very out of fashion you know breathing through the mouth is even out of fashion these days and so in a sense

adrian_starks (46:35.056)
m

adrian_starks (46:44.336)
hm

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (47:03.68)
create that creates a breath and and of course i love to sing that i love baby mcfheran so so and then you know

adrian_starks (47:14.696)
wow

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (47:29.06)
i see trees

adrian_starks (47:29.616)
ye

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (47:35.08)
that of green

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (47:41.62)
so i would go around ireland the highways and byways of ireland and i would teach these kids this circular breathing technique and talk to them about like how breathing can help with anxiety and how hip hop is not all gangs to wrap its actually originally was for kids who dropped out of school to teach them about love and you know ways outside of violence and for them to be in a system where they can prove themselves to each other battle each other if you will with their wits are their dance

adrian_starks (47:42.956)
wow

adrian_starks (47:48.236)
hm

adrian_starks (47:52.416)
yes

adrian_starks (47:58.576)
exactly

adrian_starks (48:09.876)
without the violence yeah without without the violence and i like how you said it wasn't hit pop s never gangs to wrap with people ere hearing today what he've heard before this violence perspective it's just that's just not where it was ever at it was means of expression and means of sharing one's life story like you were saying back to the poetry again we talk about these wonderful poets they were the wrappers of their time and they set the stage because wrapping is i wouldn't

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (48:11.44)
yeah

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (48:24.32)
yeah

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (48:30.46)
m

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (48:35.78)
yes

adrian_starks (48:39.916)
all wrapping poetry because honestly not talking about ireland wrap i'm talking about wrap here in the states there's some wrap that is just it's garbage i mean but there is there's some good artists out there

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (48:48.54)
yeah for sure i went to see kendrick i went to see kendrick lamar there in ireland a couple of weeks ago and it was a yeah

adrian_starks (48:54.096)
he's a genius yeah he's a genius he's great he's absolutely wonderful you know there is other artists that i really have been inspired by but this idea of wrapping and helping kids it's another way which you're bringing meaning to life you know because it's something that this whole second was about poetry the deeper meaning of life finding a new direction and what you discovered even in being on these stages and you're still doing this to day you're speaking you're helping people you're teaching

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (49:05.36)
m

adrian_starks (49:24.236)
but your experience of of what you learned growing up with your mother from from also being impacted by your environment and to now this is the direction of wife you're taken with a purpose and this is why you're powerful in what you're doing why i consider you a very authentic artist and teacher poet for the listeners today that have listened to this conversation the history of poetry what it looks like what is good poetry how could impact our lives help us through certain things memorization of it

we talked about music a little bit beat boxing how all these things place factors into anxiety how can one access the artistic part of themselves

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (50:07.96)
i think it's it's the artistic process for me is a dance between a kind of an egotism and also then humility so an extreme egotism but also then a kind of a humility that humility makes you wait and makes you not create the art or the creativity because you have to be i don't think i'm good enough but then once you do create something you have to recognize it

adrian_starks (50:20.756)
hm

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (50:37.86)
it's good or not so people suffer from both extremes in opposite ways some people will have loads of humility and not enough narcisism confidence so in a sense there is a mania in it and you just have to recognize your own mania i really want to write a second book but it's not happening as fast as i want so i have to just go with that i'm not in control of that so but i'm home

but yeah i'm humble enough to wait you know and i'm not going to force it so in that but you have to create the environment for it so i'm constantly opening my word documents and my note books but i may not write in them and a side of me is giving myself you know berating myself for not every day but i suppose access that creative side of me allowed or me

me realize every single day that we're all the same in ireland we have a saying called maskal fan scale gain maskal fan sale in my story is everyone's story my story is everybody's story so we're all the same so that is neither egotistical nor overly humble that's just a fact it's very very difficult to fully

ealize that because some people look so perfect and some people look so far gone that you don't identify with either of them but we're all holding these desperate identities together in a very very badly held fixed so realizing that as an every day thing and that's what creativity is for me and then one one sees the worth in what they're doing or one finds the theme where they are comfortable writing for

since one of the flag ship i have one collection of poetry at the moment and i'm writing a second one and one flag ship moment in that first collection is a poem called what to hand on n n it simply opens with that very much in the style of emily dickinson i hope at least it goes out to her and and it starts with just a simple line i would wish to grow wise i would wish to grow wise through years of existence

adrian_starks (52:55.816)
another good one too yeah

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (53:08.4)
to read the gradient in each phase of life just to coast down the slopes beyond travailing times to wear the right hat for the right company and rhythm of each interaction chiming in from the porifery to read the grain of every conversation to fall in love in the prime of life seed zone of death bed smiles and waves of well being lap at low tide imploring your reluctant side to break even one cycle learned as a child

for wisdom knows what to hand on and what to hold what to hold and what to hand on which to give and what to keep where to dig and what to bury when to wake and how to sleep our wish for wisdom still a whisper the source of which still buried deep so soul brother and soul sister are we changed by what we need

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (54:05.44)
to know the right hat for the right company and rhythm of each interaction chiming in from the poriferey to read the grain of every conversation that's that's supposed to be a joke by the way impossible chiming in from the porifery to read the grain of every conversation to fall in love in the prime of life i don't mean youth i mean to fall in love in the prime of life seeds sown of death bed smiles that's the game seeds sown of death bed smiles waves of

adrian_starks (54:15.696)
uh

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (54:35.26)
well being lap at low tide imploring your reluctant side to break even one cycle learned as a child for wisdom knows what to hold and what to hand on which to give and what to keep where to dig and what to bury when to wake and how to sleep our wish for wisdom still a whisper the source of which still bury deep so soul brother and soul sister are we changed by what we need

adrian_starks (55:05.836)
beautiful absolutely beautiful poetry there and i can hear the emily dickerson in it she has a point m one of my favorite ones was called trees and she de picked the relationship with treason and and austin how we communicate but listening to your poem can get remnants of emily throughout so you definitely nailed it there mihal this has been yeah yeah trees

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (55:18.5)
m

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (55:29.94)
thank you yeah i must go and look up trees yeah before we go i would like to tell your listeners that me and my brother and my mother run a tour to ireland every summer for two separate weeks one in early summer and one in late summer and that

adrian_starks (55:35.796)
i win

adrian_starks (55:45.556)
i was just going to ask you that yeah for our listeners how can they what upcoming projects and events do you have coming up that they can learn about

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (55:52.72)
the annual one is that tour and we love to make friends and let people know more about that it's a seven day tour in ireland and every morning we look into poetry and music and mythology and every day we go out on the land and take a little bit of a walk and then work doing some gigs in new jersey florida in march and going over to california in april but i also offer online singing lessons called songs of life sessions where i pass on these sacred songs to jas

the irish trade songs anywhere we want to go really and work with people of all ages and abilities which is really great i love teaching song and most recently i'm doing a series of sessions called the poetic process which looks at famous poems and then poems of my own from my collection early music as a foundation to look into techniques and sign posts around that and then work with our own poetry in i try to insight poetry and other people so i

c i t e not in s i g h

adrian_starks (56:54.496)
oh how do they go and find out about this where can they go

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (56:59.32)
i've got a website that i share with my brother and my mom called turusdanum t u r a s d a n a m t or d a n m turisdanum

adrian_starks (57:11.576)
i will make sure to put that definitely into the show notes to this podcast they can just click on that link and go straight there and then they can be updated on all the events that you have coming up and i'm excited for the journey that you're on the journey you continue to go on mill and what you're expressing here through the art of music poetry singing and this idea of expressing ourselves one last question i have for all my guests here i want to end the show out on today is what does living

a purposeful life mean to you

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (57:48.5)
more waiting than doing

doing nothing is a very very wise thing to do

that takes a lot of courage but you know you'll know you'll know when you've waited too long so don't wait too long

you won't know either way so you may as well wait first that's what i think

adrian_starks (58:11.616)
it's a different one for me waiting is there meaning behind that because you mentioned earlier today in this podcast segment that a lot of times being still being silent and not doing anything that's where a lot of answers come up for you and i know exactly the art of waiting is not easy everybody and meal is not saying oh just you know just sit around every day

and for you know the rainbow the show in the sky for you to give you a sign but what he's saying basically and you know that he's been dropping gems all throughout this episode the art of paying attention to things waiting but looking observing listening

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (59:01.64)
there's a purpose in forgiveness as well self self forgiveness is a great purpose of life and it's a constant so we can always run run back to that one if you're feeling particularly purpose purpose less one can return to a bit of self forgiveness mercy

adrian_starks (59:01.896)
and yeah the purpose

adrian_starks (59:07.756)
self forgiveness

adrian_starks (59:17.936)
mercy for yourself i love that men this has been a wonderful time to have you on the show today and i am excited for what you're bringing across the world thank you for being on the show

m_che_l___s_illeabh_in (59:28.28)
thanks everyone thanks for listening