{EP34}: Cloning Your Best Clients with Heidi Thompson

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Do you ever wish that you could clone your favorite clients? Today I'm joined by Heidi Thompson from Evolve Your Wedding Business and she's sharing her top tips for cloning your best client.  From interviewing current clients to getting super clear on what characteristics your best clients share, this episode is packed with tips to help you work with the kinds of clients you love. 

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Transcript

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Speaker 1 0:02

This is your host Mary Swa field and welcome to the wed printer podcast. Join me and my guests each week as I take a deep dive into wedding business best practices, examine challenges facing our industry and interview wedding industry experts and thought leaders who will share their strategies for taking your wedding business to the next level. Whether you're new in the industry or a seasoned pro. Each episode is filled with valuable information aimed to help you build and grow the wedding business that you are dreaming about. I'm ready if you are, so let's get started.

Speaker 2 0:39

Well, hey there. Welcome to episode number 34 of the smart business for wedding pros podcast. I am your host Mary Swa field and it is a great day to be talking about marketing today. I am joined by Heidi Thompson from evolve your wedding business and she's going to be sharing her insights on cloning your best clients. Before we get to the interview though, I want to just quickly remind you that there is still time to get your name on the waiting list for the wet preneur academy spots are filling up quickly, so you do not want to wait too long to sign up the wet preneur academy. We'll be launching in September and it's going to be amazing. We are going to be creating an incredible community for the wedding industry and together working with our members to take their business to the next level. And today I would like to personally invite you to get in on this one of a kind experience. Only those wedding pros who get on the wait list will have access to lifetime founding member pricing plus some incredible bonuses including free access to my new program, the engaged social strategy course. So hit pause on this episode and go to the wed printer.com/membership to add your name to the wait list for founding member access. I know what you're going to love it. And as a founding member, you'll have access to a private Facebook group too, and you'll be able to guide some of the content for the program because I am 100% committed to building a community and an education platform that serves your needs and helps you achieve your biggest, most audacious business goals. I am so excited to go on this journey with you and watch your business thrive as a result. Okay, let me introduce you to the lovely Heidi Thompson. Heidi Thompson is the bestselling author of clone your best clients and the founder of evolve your wedding business where she specializes in business and marketing strategy for wedding professionals. She helps wedding pros grow their businesses and reach their goals without going crazy in the process. Her business and marketing expertise has been featured on several wedding and business outlets including the Huffington post, social media examiner, wedding business magazine, sprouting photographer, photobiz exposed honey book, weddingwire world, and she's an advisory

Speaker 3 3:00

board member for the UK Academy of Wedding and event planning. How do you and I had a great time chatting and she shared some really actionable tips for bringing in more of your best clients to your wedding business. So I'm not going to make you wait any longer. Let's dive right into the interview. Heidi, welcome to the smart business for wedding pros podcast.

Speaker 4 3:20

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 3 3:22

I am so thrilled that you're here today. I, Heidi and I were just talking before we started recording and I was telling her I love interviewing fellow podcasters. Um, it makes me feel like I'm not alone out here in the podcasting world and I know that there are really experienced in terms of answering and asking questions. So I'm so happy that you're here and I'm really excited about today's topic. But before we dive into that, um, can you share with our listeners a little bit about yourself and how evolve your wedding business came to be?

Speaker 4 3:52

Of course. So I'm a big business and marketing dirt and that's kind of a thread that runs through all of this. But if all of your winning business came to be while I was running another business, so if I back way up, I had been working in the nonprofit world working on fundraising events and I loved events so I managed to get myself a job as an assistant planner. Loved it. Realized though that I thought it was the event side I was in love with and it turns out it was the marketing side that I was actually in love with. It was the getting people to these fundraising events, getting them to care about whatever cause it was that I was working for and I got married, my husband's English, we moved to where he is from bright outside Cambridge in England and I was working in marketing and a ton of different industries like you name it, I've probably marketed it and I noticed that there was this gap in the market and the wedding industry over there because I never stopped paying attention to the wedding industry because I will love it. And what was happening is in the wedding media, the wedding fairs, it was all very like Cinderella, white and fluffy. And what people actually wanted and we're going in the direction of was more of like a rock and roll, a bride offbeat bride, something more quirky and personal to them. So I saw the opportunity to start my own show is called the alternative wedding fair. And I brought together couples who wanted something different and some of the most amazing wedding professionals I've ever met. And honestly, if they were paid on their talent alone, they be millionaires. But I found that I was spending time coaching them, really trying to help them get a better return on their investment. And that's, it kind of smacked me in the face that not everyone is just like really into marketing and like sit dive into this and problem solve why things aren't working. And I saw that as my opportunity to kind of bridge these two worlds, this marketing worlds and the wedding world for myself and serve wedding professionals to help them grow their businesses without going crazy, but also get what they really want out of their business. Because, I mean, we all want to do good work. We all want to make a living. But ultimately, I mean, you might want more time freedom. You might not want more financial freedom, you might want more creative freedom, whatever it is. I love helping people realize that in their business had moved more toward it so they can have both a business and a life that they love.

Speaker 3 6:50

Oh, that's so interesting. I, you know, I love that and I think you're totally right. Like obviously same. It's the same reason why the web preneur came to be, is recognizing that, especially in the wedding industry, we get into it because we love the craft we're doing. But what we don't always realize is, particularly in this industry, nine times out of 10 that means you're going to have to be a business owner too. And I talked to so many of my own clients who were like, well, I didn't really sign up to become a business owner. And I was like, well, you are. So let's talk. Let's talk about how we're going to make that work for you or outsource and get the resources that you need, you know, to, to take some of that off your plate. So I'm so happy you know, that people like you exist and you know, there's so many great resources out there now for wedding pros and I think I'm definitely seeing over the last 10 years how amazing that impacts the industry as a whole.

Speaker 4 7:45

Yeah, I think it really legitimizes the industry as a group of like business owners and entrepreneurs and not just people doing pretty things, which I feel like sometimes it can be perceived as by outsiders, but like there are a ton of businesses in this industry and they're generating a huge amount of revenue.

Speaker 3 8:07

Mm hmm. Absolutely. It's a big industry. And do you know, we're part of the bigger event industry too, which is exploding and, and you know, I, I just love that it keeps growing and I love that, that we're legitimizing an already a legitimate, in my opinion, industry that is also really young. One of the things I remind my clients all the time as our industry is quite young in terms of being sort of unofficial industry and it will take us time to evolve if I may use that word. So, um, you know, it will take time, but I see it moving by leaps and bounds, so, so, so happy that people like you exist in the world to help guide people through their entrepreneurial path. So today, today's topic is a big one and I want to dive right in because I have a feeling we're going to have a lot to talk about about this one,

Speaker 2 8:56

but we're going to be talking about cloning your best client. Now I understand that you've actually written a book about this topic. So what motivated you to explore this topic in particular?

Speaker 4 9:08

So I kind of always knew I wanted to write a book. Like since I was a kid, I was just that kid. But I needed, you know, a real reason to, and what I found is what people were coming to me for and what people were saying was their biggest problem was either not having a fleets or not having enough bookings. And when I dug in a little bit and started asking them questions and try to like diagnose the problem, 90% of the time the problem was is that they didn't have a crystal clear picture of who it was that their marketing to. They didn't know how to find them, how to connect with them, how to speak with them in a way that would make them want to work with you. And I just saw this as this like rampant problem that I wanted to provide a solution for it because I think oftentimes the advice we're given, especially in like the wider business space, is to create these ideal client avatars. And while that can be helpful to a degree, knowing that your ideal client is a woman between the ages of 25 and 40 within 30 miles of Chicago, what do you do with that? You know, that doesn't exactly help you. Take any actions. So I wanted to take the process that I had used in my own business and the process I use with my clients to help them get really clear on who their ideal client was and turn it into something, you know, anyone can pick up and apply, brighten their business. Just plug it right in.

Speaker 2 10:54

Ooh, you know what, that, that sounds fantastic. And I think you're completely right that, you know, we're told all the time, niche down. Find your ideal client, but then there's no next steps. Right? Right. Terms to me nuts. Yeah, exactly. So I know lots of people who are like, okay, I know exactly who I want to market to you, but what I don't know is how.

Speaker 4 11:16

Yeah. And I think the easiest thing you can do is to stop focusing on the big spectrum. Like what demographics do they fall into and focus on individual human beings. Because at the end of the day, marketing is psychology. You have to understand who it is that you're marketing to, what they want and what they value, what they fear, what they love, what they hate, so that you can make it clear that you can solve the problem that they have. And all of us are solving problems in our businesses. There are all sorts of different problems, but it has to be in line with the problem that your ideal client wants solves, which you're not going to find out by looking at demographics. You have to really zoom in. And the first step in this process is looking at who are the clients that you have already worked with that you wish you could clone and just work with over and over and over.

Speaker 3 12:24

Okay, I'm writing this down. I am totally a note taker during podcasts, so don't mind me. Okay. So if the first step is the key about, you know who that perfect client that you've already worked with is and okay, so I decide that it is Jane and Bob. What do I do next?

Speaker 4 12:42

Okay. So now what you want to do, and part of this introspective on your own, but not all of it. And I think that's key, but you really want to look at who they are. So what were they like as people? What are they into, what are their personalities like? If you were going to take Jane and Bob out with a group of your friends, who would you tell your friends you're meeting up with? Like, Oh, you're going to love Jane because this and you're totally gonna get, get along with Bob because this like, who are they really identifying, you know, their personality.

Speaker 3 13:15

Okay, fantastic. Okay, so we've got Jane and Bob and I'm going to say that they are, you know, really upbeat, cheerful, pop positive people with a lot of energy and you know, there are really adventurous and they like to go out and do things in the outdoors all the time. And you know, they're really, they were really excited to work with me and gave me a lot of latitude to do my job. Which you know, is, I think everybody's ideal client preferred client out there. Right. So what do I do next? I've nailed down who they are, what their personality is and I can, I can hear their voices in my head even. So what, what's the next step?

Speaker 4 13:57

And this is good and I think you should really think too, are there other Jane and Bob's in Your Business? Because if we can gather a sort of small consensus of people, this helps too because maybe you have one ideal client, maybe everyone you work with is pretty similar or maybe it's sort of a venn diagram of people where they have something in common. Maybe they're all quite adventurous people and they spend their weekends hiking and kayaking but they worked with you for different reasons. Maybe one worked with you cause they were super busy and they didn't want to deal with that and maybe one wanted like a beautifully designed, beautifully planned wedding. Those are two different types of people, but there is that intersection. So I think it's really good to look at. What are the buckets that these people fall? What do each of them have in common in terms of who they are? Because typically if you put them all in a room, they're going to get along. They're, you know, they're going to be like these opposite factions that you're working with in your business. But really looking at, okay, who are each of these people that I've worked with, each of these couples? Why did I enjoy working with them so much? Maybe that's the common threat. Maybe they all had a similar style. Maybe they all had a similar personality. Maybe they were your most profitable clients or maybe they weren't. Maybe your most profitable clients are total pains. You really don't want to work with a ton of them, maybe a few every year, but you don't want to load up your client base on that. So really identifying who are these people, where do they fall? Who wears like the Venn diagrams between them? So to give you an example, there is an officiant that I know and she has noticed that she has this venn diagram. One of the circles are really nerdy, Geeky people who love the fact that she makes like Lord of the rings references and she goes to renaissance fairs and comicons and things like that. And the other side are not nerdy at all. They're quite romantic types, but the intersection is that they both want a super personal ceremony. They don't want a celebrant who is just, you know, choose between versions one, two or three of this. They want something custom created based on them. And that is the thing they have in common. So that's the thing that you really want to keep in mind going forward. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 16:40

Absolutely. So essentially what it sounds like to me is you're kind of looking for that common denominator in your favorite clients. Like what is that one or two or even three traits that they all seem to have in common, even if they're on opposite sides of the spectrum in other regards.

Speaker 4 16:56

Yeah. And you can use those opposite sides of the spectrum to kind of sprinkled in here and there, but the core of your marketing is going to be in the middle.

Speaker 2 17:05

Okay, fantastic. So once we've identified what that, you know, core common denominator is for our clients, what, what do we do with that?

Speaker 4 17:14

Okay. This is where I tell people to do this and they get intimidated, but I promise it's actually a lot of fun. Okay. You interview your clients.

Speaker 2 17:22

Ooh, fun. I think that would be super fun.

Speaker 4 17:25

And the way you get them to agree to this is through what I call sincere flattery. So by saying Bob Jane, don't don't tell anybody what you guys are totally my favorite. And if I could work with you every day of my life I'd be the happiest person on earth, but I can't. So I have to find more people like you. So would you hop on a Skype call with me for like 20 minutes so I can ask you some questions to try to find more of the Bob and Jane's of the world

Speaker 3 17:54

and this I'm sure that that works. Like when I think about my favorite clients, often the clients that we love are the ones that we have really good relationships with. Two I think it kind of goes hand in hand. So I know like tons of my past clients would completely be absolutely, let's do this. I would love to help you. And you know they're flattered of course. Yeah. So there's a want to be told that their specials. Exactly, exactly. So I feel like my clients would totally be okay with that. Um, and most of them are really, I find in the wedding industry, what's really fascinating to me is a lot of our top clients end up becoming very invested in our business in terms of like being our biggest cheerleaders and our biggest supporters and referring us to tens of people. So I feel like if you really have those clients in your life, they're going to be 100% okay with doing this.

Speaker 4 18:44

Totally awesome. And when you are talking to them, the way I try to approach this is asking questions, being curious, and then shutting up and listening. Most of this is listening because when you ask a question like, okay, you probably looked at other wedding planners, why did you decide to work with us exactly. And just listen for what they say and good God, if you're on something like Skype record because you can use these words in your marketing and they will work so much better than anything you could create yourself. Hmm,

Speaker 3 19:21

absolutely. I love that. And you know, it's funny when I teach, um, I teach, uh, wedding planning course and one of the things when we're talking about the consultation procedure, even, I talk about the fact that we need to talk less and really listen more because there are so many good nuggets to be found when you just let someone to express themselves without, you know, trying to guide the conversation or pepper them with, with followup questions. I mean, obviously when they're, when they're done saying what they're saying, you should ask a follow up question. You don't want that awkward silence. But at the same time, you know, there's so much to be learned from people when we just listened to them.

Speaker 4 20:00

Yeah. And the funny thing is this, this is really the most underutilized resource free resource that you have for marketing Intel because people will tell you how to sell to them. People will tell you how to market to them. They will tell you what resonated with them and what didn't. So you can stop doing the things that didn't work.

Speaker 3 20:26

Mm, I love that. Okay. So aside from asking them, you know, why you chose us over our competitors, what are some of the other questions you recommend asking?

Speaker 4 20:36

So I always like asking why did you decide to go with whatever package it was that they booked? Oh, that's a good, because you can find out more their motivations and their values and this, so I think the example I use in the book as well, we want to let her press stationary because we wanted it to look and feel very um, like authoritative, like fairy for adult. We're for real, which is interesting. And you could leave it at that, but then you can definitely dig further to find out why. Because there is always an underlying motivation of why we do what we do. Whether it's, you know, keeping up with the Joneses or trying to impress someone or trying to feel a certain way. And it might come down to the fact that all of their friends just had this amazing wedding and they want to one up them. You can use that in your market.

Speaker 3 21:33

Yeah, absolutely. And you know what? I think it's, it seems like such an obvious question, but I think sometimes we forget that the key, often the key to our marketing success is right in front of us. Yeah. And one of the things, what are the mistakes that I find all business owners tend to tend to do is they say they market based on what they think other people will think or fiasco or, or what their pain points might be without actually doing that research and that Intel and really finding out, okay, why do people hire me for what I do? Like why, what is their actual reason? And often it's coat so completely different than what you thought it was going to be. Right?

Speaker 4 22:16

Yeah. So I have a wedding planner and she was finding that the standard messaging that you see for wedding planners, what she was using. So it was, you know, your stress, let me help you and you'll save time. Well that wasn't working for her. So I had a hunch that it was the messaging that was the issue. So I had her do this and she found that her best clients were Indian and they were usually either the last or close to the last in their group of siblings, cousins to get married. And they had been to the same Indian wedding like 20 times. And they're older and yes, they wanted an Indian wedding. Yes, they wanted to bring their culture in, but they also wanted to meet that halfway with who they are and bring their personality in as well. And she had no idea that this was a motivating factor. She just knew, yeah, this is kind of what they wanted when they came in, but they never outright stated, you know, what they were feeling until she asked. And what she made that transition and just started marketing based on that message, her business exploded and became the go to for this specific ideal client.

Speaker 3 23:36

Mm. I like that. You know, it's so funny. I really think that sometimes we suffer from like do what else is doing idas in history, right? Because I think deep down, especially when you're just starting out, you feel like that, you know, everyone else is doing it. So it must be working for them. And so I'm going to do the same thing with the same type of messaging and then hopefully it'll work for me. And then what we end up with of course, is a, a whole Schrock of same, same, same, same. And we all know what happens when couples have no other option when it comes to differentiating one person from another, they base it on price. Right. So I love what you're saying about really digging deep and doing that research. So what other questions would you suggest that they ask their id or their, their best clients? So one of my favorites

Speaker 4 24:29

and one of my favorites in my own business that I use is asking, if you were referring me to a friend, what would you

Speaker 3 24:38

say? I love this question and here's why. Um, we actually did this exercise in one of the courses I teach in terms of, I ask them if you were to ask your favorite clients what you know they loved about working with you, what would they say? And it's always very interesting because sometimes what you think they're going to say and what they do say is totally different.

Speaker 4 25:01

[inaudible] I find that a lot of times it's the things that you do uniquely just because you are the way you are and you function the way you do in your business, but you don't pay attention to them because you don't think they're particularly unique. But these are usually the things that really stand out to people and that they really love about working with you.

Speaker 3 25:26

[inaudible] definitely. Can you give some examples? Like what are some things that you've heard people say before?

Speaker 4 25:32

Yeah, so a lot of times people will get feedback that, you know, they felt like you had answers to questions that I hadn't even asked and you presented that to me. You like, you knew everything that needed to happen and it was in such a clean and clear process that I felt really taken care of or in my own business. The piece that I always get is you have a way of breaking down really complex topics into things that are easy to digest and easy to implement. And that's just the way my brain works. I, I didn't set out to do that. Just like if you have a process for working with your clients, you probably didn't create it to impress them. You created it so you can do your work. But that can definitely be a differentiating factor. I mean for my, the person who does my taxes, the fact that she just has a process where I can just upload everything and it gets done is amazing to me and I tell everybody about her because I don't have to go to a place and sit in front of a guy at a desk and you know, walk through all my documents. It's just done.

Speaker 3 26:48

Absolutely. And you know, this really goes to the heart, by the way. I know we're sort of focusing a little bit on process here, but you would be surprised how many couples actually really care about that process and, and that the process of working with you, the experience of working with you is easy. Right?

Speaker 4 27:07

Yeah. And I think we can see this in our own lives. So if you look at your own consumer behavior, like anytime you've done something that you've never done before, whether it's a, an activity or maybe you go into a restaurant and it's a different structure, like you don't know what exactly you're supposed to do. Do I wait to be seated? Do I go sit down? Do I go up to this person in place, my order, if it's made really clear, it just gives you the sense of ease and likely have their shit together, which is always good.

Speaker 3 27:41

Absolutely. And so I, I, this is kind of a little bit off topic, but I think it's worth reiterating here. Like, think about what Heidi is saying about your experience as a consumer and your experience when you're making hiring decisions too in terms of what you like to look for it. Now, you may not be your ideal client, but it's always really good to look at, you know, when I'm hiring a bookkeeper or when I'm hiring someone to take care of my lawn, I say that because I literally just heard my neighbors start the lawnmower. But what, what about the process made it easy for you and what did you like about the way that you know, when you're going through that process, the way that they did business with you and how did you make the decision that you made? Because that's also really good research to understand your own buying behavior.

Speaker 4 28:30

It really is, and when you look at larger companies, and I am a huge advocate for this, they have the money to spend a ton on ads and test a ton of different messages. So if you know brands that your ideal client resinates with, like maybe they're happy to spend more money on their food at whole foods because it's really important to them to know where it came from and to know that whether it's like a health thing for them or it's an environmental thing that's a value for them. And we all make purchasing decisions based on our values. So if you look at, okay, how is whole foods communicating that because they have a ton of money to spend on this, how are they making people feel a certain way so that they want to come buy from them? What kind of language are they using? You can totally piggyback off of what big brands or

Speaker 3 29:26

doing [inaudible] definitely. Oh I love, I'm such a brand addict. Like I love researching what people are loving and what they're responding to and all the trends in marketing are just so fascinating. So I could do that all day long. Um, okay. So getting back to our strategies here, so we were at interviewing your clients. Do you have more suggestions for questions or do you want to move to the very next step?

Speaker 4 29:55

Yeah, so I mean there are a lot of questions you can ask and I would say some of the best start with why. Because you're trying to figure out the motivation behind a certain behavior. So why did you do this? Why was this important to you to really figure out what is the value that they're acting from? So if you keep that in your head as the goal to try to get to the bottom of like for the shopper at whole foods, why don't you just buy your groceries at Walmart? Why do you insist upon spending this much money on your food? They're going to tell you why it's important to them. So the same thing really applies here, but I am a big fan of asking at multiple stages throughout the process, including at this point, after you've worked with someone, how they found you, but also where they looked. I feel like a lot of times we ask, where did you find me? Or where did you hear about me? But we don't always ask, well, where did you even look? Because it's easy to fall into. And this came up a lie actually before I started writing the book, I got, I asked constantly, should I advertise on wedding wire? Should I advertise on the non, should I do Facebook ads? Should I do Instagram ads? Should I spend more time on Pinterest? And the answer frustratingly is it depends. It depends if they're looking in those places and if not a single one of your best clients looked on wedding wire, it's probably not worth your money or your time.

Speaker 3 31:24

[inaudible] that's great. That's great advice. So just let them

Speaker 4 31:27

make the decisions for you.

Speaker 3 31:28

Yeah, exactly. And you know, the best thing, I'm such a data nerd too. So the best thing is, is once you've had, you know, a year of experience or, or gone through a full wedding season or you know, you now have basically research subjects you can, you can tap into. I mean, I hate to say it that way because it sounds, you know, cold and clinical and all that. Um, me a yeah, it really does give you that opportunity, you know, to to better understand. And I think too, what I'm hearing from you is really, you know, the data is at your fingertips. Everything you need to know is really there. You just have to ask for the information. And we have to stop as an industry making marketing decisions based on a lack of actual data, right? Like or external data. We need to look at our own internal data and our specific market, our specific clients and really, you know, dive into that and understand it and then use that.

Speaker 4 32:30

Yeah. And I think it's really important to keep in mind that what works for someone else may or may not work for you and you have to test it and it's okay if it work, that just means you've ruled it out for your ideal client. And I think oftentimes we have this tendency, I think this is true of all business owners to put more and more and more things on our plate without taking anything off. And you fully have permission to get rid of the stuff that isn't working and double down on this stuff you're already doing that is working without reinventing the wheel.

Speaker 3 33:07

Mm hmm. Do more of what works. It's one of my favorite sayings.

Speaker 4 33:12

It we overcomplicate and I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's, we feel like we need to work harder than we do. Like we can't let it be easy, but it can be

Speaker 3 33:22

awesome. I love that. Okay. So once you've interviewed your best clients, what do you do with all of the information that you've gathered?

Speaker 4 33:32

So at this point, what you really want to do is comb through all of the information that you've collected. Look for any patterns, look for things that people really valued and look for actual snippets of what people have said that you might be able to use to describe what you do. Because we all have this curse of knowledge thing where we do this every day. So it's really hard to describe to someone who's not familiar with it at all what we do and our clients are very good at it. So what you really want to look for is what marketing decisions can I make on this. So can I start doing something? Can I stop doing something? Can I double down on something? What needs to happen going forward with that? Is My messaging on point. Am I really marketing myself with the message that they're telling me is important to them? Or in the case of that planner and my marketing based on you're stressed and you don't have enough time when that's like number six on the list of reasons why they would hire you and then just going through and making those changes, whether it's in the copy on your website, you know what you're writing in your social media posts, anything marketing wise, just make sure it's aligned with what you were just told and look for any opportunities you can to sprinkle that in. You know, you may find that they had some questions, they had some things they were unsure about before they worked with you. Those are great for blog posts. You know, you can go apply that can turn them into social media posts. It's really ripe for the picking.

Speaker 3 35:24

I love that. You know, it's so fascinating too because as you talk about, you know, the generic wedding planner website that says, you know, hire a wedding planner. If you hire me, you know you'll have a stress free wedding, blah, blah, blah, blah. There's a marketing principle that says if what you're saying is really obvious and the opposite of it is what they definitely don't want, then you're essentially just stating something that is assumed to be true. And I think too often we really do fall back on those sort of go to, well, here's the reason why someone would hire a photographer or here's the reason why someone would hire a wedding planner. And the pain points that we're we're missing are the things that'll really help us stand apart, which is ultimately what we're trying to do in a crowded market, right, is to really stand apart. So I love, I love that idea. And you know, you mentioned that in terms of what some of your best clients say, they say that you break things down and make it easy to follow step by step.

Speaker 2 36:22

I have a suspicion that if I were to go check out any of your marketing, some iteration of that is going to be there. Am I right?

Speaker 4 36:30

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 36:31

Yeah. And it works, right? Yeah. Fantastic. I love this. And you know, what I love about this

Speaker 3 36:38

so far is that it's, it's not complicated. It really isn't. Like it might take someone getting a little bit out of their comfort zone to, you know, interview a client. But here's the thing guys, she's not asking you to interview your worst clients because

Speaker 2 36:51

that would be awkward. And you know, and I mean I'm sure there's a ton of great data to be gathered there, but it might not be helpful, but these are probably people you had a really great relationship with to begin with. So it's not as intimidating as it might sound. Okay.

Speaker 4 37:06

First it's actually a lot of fun because you get to connect again with these people that you already loved working with, which is just fun and you get to learn so much, not just about yourself and your business but about them. And it's very eyeopening.

Speaker 3 37:25

[inaudible] definitely. Question for you, what would you say to any of our listeners who are maybe newer in the industry and maybe they're listening, thinking, well, I don't really know what my best clients would be like, cause I don't know that I've experienced them yet. Is there a way that they can go about doing this? Like, do you recommend maybe you know, if they have that sort of ideal avatar in their mind or that ideal client, if they know friends that are like that they can interview them? Or what would you suggest for someone who just hasn't found that best client yet?

Speaker 4 37:53

Yeah, absolutely. So the friends piece is definitely one thing I would recommend. I would also say that you as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, you have to test, and this is at all stages. So you may as well get comfortable right out of the gate and you have to make a hypothesis. And now hypothesis maybe I think I really want to work with this type of person who values this and this is their problem. And then you go out into the market and you test it, you know, you see, can you attract these people? Do you like working with them? Maybe you hate them, maybe they terrible and you want to work with them. And that's fine because none of this is set in stone. You can always test things and then pivot slightly or do a whole one 80 if that's what you want to do. I think we often forget these are our businesses, we can do literally whatever we want as long as you aren't breaking the law.

Speaker 3 38:57

Yeah. And I think that's really great advice, honestly. And I've done that. Like when I first started in this industry, I had a very specific type of client that I wanted to work with. Um, you know, very art. I was a musician. So for me it was like very artsy arts focused, um, you know, fun, Funky type couples. Well, after about a year and that's who I marketed to and I did attract those clients, but I also forgot and I should've known better as a musician myself. A lot of those clients don't have very much money. And you were going to say, so as much fun and as much as I loved working with them, like the push back on pricing was constant battles. So I totally had, I did have to rebrand. I mean I, I decided to do that complete one 80 and completely rebranded, completely changed directions, but I was still looking, you know, we talk about that common denominator. I was still looking for that sort of adventure based free free spirited person. I just wanted someone you know, who maybe had an arts background but had gone into business or had gone into engineering or was a lawyer now or whatever. So, you know, I was able to pivot and my, my brand and messaging had to shift. But I think at the core I was still wanting to work with the same type of people. But like Heidi says, I want to reiterate this because um, you don't need permission by the way at all, but we're giving it to you today anyways. You can do whatever you want in your business and you can change your mind. And if you test something and it doesn't work, that as part of the process of being a business owner doesn't mean that you failed, doesn't mean that you made a mistake. It is just a process that you have to go through and eventually you will land on it. Eventually you will hit, you know what, what is really going to resonate both with you and your ideal clients. You just have to give it some time

Speaker 4 40:44

and I think it's, and this is really important. Well I was going to say for newer, but really everyone, it depends how you look at it. I mean I try things that don't work all the time, but the way I look at it is, okay, maybe I'm like two inches off of the target here. What if I made this small tweak? It's that curiosity of like, Huh, okay, that did not go the way I thought. Why and what can I do to make that change? It's more of a curiosity based on like a, I'm 80% of the way there. I'm almost there. I just need to change this little thing in my business and I'll be right there.

Speaker 3 41:24

I love that. That's very glass half full attitude. I like. It

Speaker 4 41:29

keeps me from going crazy.

Speaker 3 41:31

Exactly. Totally, totally true.

Speaker 2 41:34

Okay. Well this has been super great so far. Do you have any other tips that you want to add to that?

Speaker 4 41:40

Oh boy. Like I could give you 1 million bucks. I know. I think just don't be afraid to test. Don't be afraid to choose an ideal client and try this because you're going to get more traction from choosing a target and aiming for it than just like wandering around not knowing where the targets are and just like throwing stuff in every which direction. Just, I mean statistically you're not probably not going to hit anything. Exactly.

Speaker 2 42:09

Oh, that's fantastic. So before we wrap this up, I know my listeners have found this to be super informative. I certainly have, um, I'm sure many people listening would love to know how they can get a copy of your book. So how can they do that?

Speaker 4 42:23

Yeah, so it is on Amazon. You can search for a clone your best clients, or you can just go to evolve your wedding business.com/clone.

Speaker 2 42:32

That is awesome. Well, everybody, I hope you've enjoyed chatting with Heidi. I think it's been super fun. That's, I love that your advice has been really step-by-step. Shocking. I know. It's like it's like know who you are and who your ideal client is it just

Speaker 4 42:49

the way I,

Speaker 2 42:50

but now I am bracing. Awesome. It's fantastic. And I will be aligning all of this in the show notes and I'll also link to Heidi's book both on her website and on Amazon. So if you wanted to get a copy or to connect with Heidi, you can certainly do so. Um, it has been such a pleasure chatting with you today. Do you have any final thoughts for everyone?

Speaker 4 43:10

I will offer a just another additional resource for your listeners and that if you're struggling with, you know, coming up with a plan, you know, putting something forward with your marketing, I have a free training that really helps strip down the overwhelm and helps you focus on what it is you're going to do in terms of your marketing. And, uh, you can actually get that over@evolveyourweddingbusiness.com slash webinar totally free training that walks you through the five steps I've identified for a marketing plan that will make your life so much easier. I'm all about just making things easier. We don't need to make it harder.

Speaker 2 43:54

Awesome. That's fantastic. Okay, well thank you so much once again for being here today. Heidi,

Speaker 4 44:00

my pleasure.

Speaker 2 44:01

Take care. Well, hello again. It was so much fun chatting with Heidi and she is so knowledgeable about this topic and she shared some really great tips. My favorite strategy that she mentioned is to reach out to your past best clients, sort of like an exit interview to really dig deep into understanding why it is they chose to work with you in the first place. There is so much value in taking the time to really listen to our clients and like she said, it can be a lot of fun. That a wrap for today. What preneurs. I truly appreciate you spending the last hour or so with me and if you're a subscriber I can't wait to spend time with you again next week and don't forget to get on the wait list for the web preneur academy. We have limited spots and the founding member pricing that we're going to be offering for those who are on the wait list is insanely reasonable and we won't ever be offering access at that price. Again, I'll be sharing more details in the coming weeks here on the podcast and of course in the web printer Facebook group and if you're not a member of that group yet, you can head to the wed preneur.com/join and we will get you access right away. I hope you all have an amazing week and if you've got a wedding this weekend, I am sending good vibes your way, my friend for a successful event. See you next week.

Speaker 5 45:21

[inaudible]

Speaker 1 45:21

thank you so much for joining me for this week's episode of the wet printer podcast. I'm so incredibly grateful to all of my listeners and would like to take a moment to invite you to keep the conversation going. Head on over to my free online community@thewetprinter.com forward slash join if you enjoyed this episode, help us spread the word by leaving us an honest review on iTunes. I appreciate each and every one of you and welcome your feedback and till next time,

Speaker 5 45:54

[inaudible].