Jay Martin on Making Investment Personal (Again) | The CSE Podcast Ep3-S3

Jay Martin, President and CEO of Cambridge House International makes his long-overdue return to the Exchange for Entrepreneurs podcast!

In this episode we follow-up 30 months after our last conversation with Jay when the impact of the global pandemic was starting to irreversibly alter the path of his business at Cambridge House International - a business anchored by several well-known investment conferences. Since that time Jay has moved most of Cambridge's activities into the online-content world with the exception of the Vancouver Resource Investment Conference (VRIC), which takes its rightful place again in Vancouver from January 29-30, 2023.

In this discussion Jay reveals the reasons for bringing back the show and why its still critically important to bring investors and entrepreneurs together under one roof. He also highlights how his experience with one former Prime Minister re-affirmed his belief in bringing the conference back as an in-person event.

Mr. Martin also discusses his viewpoints on investors newsletters and how he sources his own motivation for writing a weekly digest for his followers. For those looking for advice on who to follow or what newsletters to consider then look no further than Jay's principles shared on this week's program.

Vancouver Resource Investment Conference (cambridgehouse.com)

Host: James Black
Producer: James Black
Guest: Jay Martin

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Transcript

James Black (00:03):

Welcome back to the Exchange for Entrepreneurs Podcast. I'm your host, James Black, and this week we welcome a returning guest, Jay Martin, from Cambridge House International. I was excited to bring Jay back because I hadn't had him on the show since COVID. And since that time his conference business was quite adversely affected by what had happened with the global pandemic, but he's now back bringing us the Vancouver Resource Investment Conference this weekend.

(00:26):

Now, if you're listening to this show after the fact, that's quite all right. Has some great insights about why he brought back the conference, why it's still important to bring real investors and real entrepreneurs under one roof to discuss the possibilities of mineral investment and other global trends. He also discusses newsletters. He's a writer himself, but he also gets into the psychology of what he's looking for when he's seeking out investment advice through other newsletters. And I think there's some practical insights here that anyone could take and maybe implement into their own information gathering process. So, without further ado, Jay Martin, Cambridge House International, enjoy the show.

(01:05):

It's funny, just before this call we talked about family legacy. Cambridge House obviously was the brainchild of your father, but you've gone and taken it in so many different new and exciting directions under your tenure. And what I really want to ask is... When we last chatted on this podcast, we were in the midst of COVID. You couldn't have physical conferences, investor conferences. And what I really want to know is, after everything you've learned, relearned, done since COVID, Cambridge House is now back in a big way. I saw the growth numbers from last year, this year for registration, 105%. It's probably much higher now. Tell me why physical conferences, why Cambridge House specifically, can't be killed, why it needs to exist?

Jay Martin (01:47):

Well, first and foremost, it wasn't an easy decision to go back to live events. When we got shut down back in the spring of 2020, as any event production company did, it was tough, it was scary, you're like, "What's our future?" All of those questions, so many industries and business owners were asking those questions. We ended up landing on our feet with a media version of the event business. And truthfully, James, I got to keep my favorite parts. We just took what we used to do on stage and we started doing it from a studio and interviewing the same individuals and more. All of a sudden, individuals that didn't want to fly to Vancouver in January for a live conference, were happy to hop on a call and record a podcast or a YouTube show.

(02:33):

And so it ended up actually expanding our reach. It simplified the business. It exited the parts that aren't so fun, like the operations and logistics and the production side of a conference. But we got to keep the content side, which is the most fun, and it's the part that I benefit from the most. I'm an investor, just like anybody who attends our events, who watches our shows, and so I'm a student in that role and I get to just interview people who have been in the game longer than I have. So when we had the green light to go back to events, it wasn't like an obvious, "Yes, let's go back right away." Because I was thinking we've found something better, why would we go back? And a buddy of mine made a comment, "Actually, it's worth considering." Once we got the green light to go back to the old way of doing things, so many people rush back to the old way of doing things, even if it wasn't in their best interest. We learned smarter ways, more efficient ways to do much. And that was the question I was trying to answer.

(03:30):

So anyways, the reason we did go back... and we've only gone back to one event thus far. We used to have eight to 11 per year, I only chose to resurrect one. And the first reason was that I wanted to, it was like "I kind of miss the buzz." I miss the live stage, I miss the crowd, I miss the marketplace of companies and all the conversations that occur. So personally, I was driven to bring that back. And I do think that's the most important part because it'll determine how hard you throw your shoulder behind something if you personally want it back. So, I knew I was lacking it. I knew I enjoyed the podcast, but I benefited more when I could sit down with somebody face-to-face and build a relationship and really learn from them and really understand their investment philosophy and thesis and all of this.

(04:17):

And then it's the spec market. It's never going to be anything but a super high risk market. And I'm talking about the junior mining industry, which is what the VRIC is all about. And you can restate this sentence forever, and it's still as relevant as the first time, that it's all about the people. That's it. You're not betting on an industry, you're not betting on a product or a service. You're betting on the judgment and decision-making and integrity of one or two human beings. That's it. And whether or not they're going to do what they say they're going to do, whether or not they're going to go off and have an adventure with your money after you write that check. Do you trust this human being, and do they surround themselves with other great people? And are they going to have a plan C when plan A and B fail? Because we know that's how this business goes, it's super tough. And so having the opportunity, I think it does matter, to see them in person. Whether from the podium, pitching a room of 50 or actually going to their booth and having a conversation, it's important because it is a people driven business.

James Black (05:20):

Yeah, and I agree with you, that physical space that you share with someone, a lot of things are happening, not just as you described, looking people in the eye, there's actually hormones and stuff. It's hard to explain on a podcast, but I've been to that show many, many times and I've been to lots of conferences, we all have, and there's certainly just a human element that you can't replicate. For all the good things you can do online, you just can't replicate in person. And I assume when you want to look at investment opportunities and be able to talk to that person that might use your money, there's no better way than doing it in person.

(05:55):

So, I think we've covered the magic of why people come back in person, but are there a couple of moments or a moment that stick out to you even from last year or that you're looking forward to this year, that you think are going to be things you couldn't do virtually that have to only happen in person? Anything that comes to mind, whether it was a guest or a moment that you already proved to you like, "Yes, this is why we're back."

Jay Martin (06:18):

Oh, certainly. And I have a direct example because we did this show virtually in 2021, and one of our headline speakers was former Prime Minister Stephen Harper. We then resurrected the live events in 2022, and I brought him on again as one of our headline speakers. Both of which were interview style, so he had to sit down and I got to grill him for an hour. So that's a direct comparison. One was from my home studio talking to Prime Minister Harper from his home office. And the second was live on stage in front of a thousand people, and it's just a different energy. And you're right, whether it's the pheromones or just the primal desire to... we're herd animals after all. But it's just a different level of energy. The quality of the conversation is just better as a consequence. There's more nerves which drives a higher performance and more preparation because you have that mix of excitement and fear that really makes you focus.

(07:21):

And James, I've never seen an audience... I've been doing this 12 years, I've never seen an audience engage as much as they did last year in 2022. We had not even standing room available in our core speaker hall. And that's rare. It's rare. And I was like, "What's with the enthusiasm? Why are people so keen? I've never heard such loud applause. I've never heard people laugh so hard at jokes that we're told on stage by various fund managers." And I think it's just because this is novel, we haven't done this in a long time. We haven't gotten together in person in a long time, and it drives a different result, for sure.

James Black (07:57):

Yeah. Well, those moments aren't just a result of us being deprived of human connectivity. I remember Alex Tapscott, when he was starting to talk about blockchain, in that event that we had, or you had, Extraordinary Future, and the buzz and everyone just trying to figure out what the hell was going on with this new technology. Well, this concept based on a somewhat new technology,

Jay Martin (08:20):

That was 2017, September, 2017, wasn't it? Yeah.

James Black (08:23):

Yeah. That would never happen online. You couldn't recreate that. So, okay, here's my next question, because you still publish a regular newsletter. It's something I read and it comes out, what every week is it, or so?

Jay Martin (08:36):

Yes, most weeks. Yeah.

James Black (08:39):

And so, a two part question. Why newsletter? Why do you put so much effort into newsletter as a piece of content? And secondly, when people interact with yourself, the newsletter, Cambridge House, other than the concept of trying to make money or at least get smarter about investing, what's the other promise or the other trail you're trying to take people down? So two part question. Why newsletter? And then other than making money, what are you trying to impart on people or exchange dialogue on?

Jay Martin (09:08):

So, I write the newsletter because everything else I do is conversation style. Whereas the newsletter, I'm just talking to myself. And honestly James, I write the letter that I feel like I need to read. There's a subject that I'm trying to grapple with that I'm struggling with, and that could be something philosophical, to be honest. Often I don't write about financial markets. I write about civil divisions and the importance of discourse and managing your expectations and managing your biases and heuristics, because to your second question, what is investing really all about? It's just about managing your psychology and preventing bad decisions. Those should be the top goals. And because I interview so many very successful money managers and investors and entrepreneurs who have great track records, and none of them ever agree. I could interview ten, a hundred, different money managers who have had amazing success and ask them about their prediction for the next two years, they'll all tell me something different. So what does that mean? It means that no one really knows. No one has a clue what's around the corner.

(10:21):

And so I tend to stay away from that because there's enough people making forecasts and predictions, and we can do our best to tune into as many of those as possible and then find whichever resonates with us. I tend to focus more on strategy. So, how do you filter through all the noise and identify some kind of a signal? There's so much stimulus trying to get your attention, trying to give you good ideas. FOMO is super real. This deal's taken off. Why am I not participating? And investing is super, super emotional. And so the content of my newsletter is often written to temper my own emotions. Again, it's a letter that I need to read, and that's when I enjoy it the best. And honestly, when I get the best response from my audience is when I delete the audience from my mind when I'm writing it, and I'm like, "I'm just journaling." And then I publish that and that's when I enjoy it the most, that's when I get the best response. And I feel like it's when I do my best writing, truthfully. It's therapeutic to be honest, James, because it's like a-

James Black (11:17):

For sure. It's very personal.

Jay Martin (11:19):

Yeah. Yes. Yes.

James Black (11:21):

Yeah. So, do you want people to follow you that are going to agree with you, or do you want people who are going to follow you that disagree with you?

Jay Martin (11:28):

Oh, I don't care. Well, okay, so a topic that I revisit frequently is the ability to listen to somebody you disagree with and still pick out gems that resonate with you. It's really hard to do. If there's a headline that offends you or a book and the first chapter's like, "I don't agree with that." It's hard to read the next 11 chapters and still give chapter eight credit and be like, "Well, that one was valuable though." We're very quick to write off an entire piece of content or speech because we hear something that offends us or something we disagree with. There's something we're like, "That's just flat out wrong." And then we dismiss the rest of it when there's maybe some really useful stuff in there. And for no other reason than to help you play devil's advocate against your own convictions, which is super, super important.

(12:16):

So if people are reading... and I know people disagree because I get those responses too. I hope I'm adding the kind of value that I get from listening to opinions I think I disagree with or that I feel like are just shortsighted and narrow. But I think the whole concept of healthy debate and civil discourse is one that we need to hang onto really tightly right now, because maybe we're a bit more easily triggered than we were 10 years ago, or five years ago, or four years ago. It's been a bit tense a few times in the last three years. And so if we can cling to that civil discourse, that's all... The ability to debate and to... I think it's very, very important, or else we just end up in these silos with opinions that compliment and deepen our own conviction but massively amplify our blind spots. And we're the one who suffers in that scenario because we're not seeing the whole picture and we're just putting our blinders on. And it's important. It's very, very important.

James Black (13:22):

Oh, I agree. And I think that, well, when you're producing content it does have to be entertaining to some degree. But people, your viewers, listeners, watchers, readers, they have to subscribe to some form of discomfort around, "If I'm going to learn by going on this journey with Jay, I don't have to agree with everything, but I might actually see things a different way and that might make me smarter about what I do." And hopefully that's where people land without getting offended or being terribly turned off, or if they decide... maybe my next question. You've had a ton of newsletter writers at your conferences, I'm sure you've read a lot of them, interviewed a lot of them. As an investor yourself, how do you choose what kind of content and newsletter writers you're going to follow to inform yourself and feed your mind with ideas for investing?

Jay Martin (14:08):

Yeah, there's a few maybe basic rules that I might point to. And this is not a general rule, but one that should be considered. Think about the brand of the author. I do this because we've seen... how many cycles have we watched James in the last 10 years? Various. Whether it's cannabis, whether it's crypto, whether it's gold, they come and go. And on the back of those cycles, a lot of authors and publications appear that are branded to that asset class. The crypto investor, the cannabis investor, the gold speculator. If the business model is paid subscriptions and the brand is tied to a specific asset, then it's in that author's best interest to keep you interested in that asset whether or not the timing's good or not. It's not always a good time to invest in gold. It's not always a good time to invest in anything. And so I would just be wary of authors that tie themselves to one specific thing and then rely upon the subscription revenues of you being interested in that specific thing. Because you might always not always get the whole truth. And maybe it's not nefarious. It's probably not, it's just we are all subject to our own biases. And if you go deep down the cannabis or crypto rabbit hole, you're going to see that and you might just get led astray. So yeah, just a light rule that I watch.

(15:32):

And then when it comes to just finding authors, it's all about what resonates with you, because you're only going to read it if you enjoy it. You're only going to read it every single week if you enjoy it. Some of my favorite authors like Luke Gromen, Grant Williams, their letters are really long. It's a 50 page thing that comes out. I got three kids, I got a business, how am I supposed to find time to sit down and read four of those? You know what I mean? It's really tough. And so if I don't love the writing, if it doesn't resonate with me, then I'm just not going to make the time and I'm not going to intake the insights because I'm not really fully engaged. And so I'd find authors that you'd like their style. I think that's really important.

(16:16):

And then if you can, fine tune to take different sides of the same bet, which is why I read Brent Johnson and Luke Gromen. They are always feuding on Twitter, they rarely ever agree, but I think they're both really, really smart. I don't think, in terms of their bets on the future of US dollars, anybody knows who's going to be right, least of all them. But by listening to both, you get the whole picture about why we should maybe consider staying along US dollars, and to Luke's point, maybe why it's time to jump off that ship. And again, I don't think anybody knows, but so that would be another. It's got to resonate with me, and then if I can find two authors to take the opposite sides of the same bet and that gives me a better perspective.

James Black (16:58):

Yeah, that's smart. We talked about it on last week's show, confirmation bias and trying to avoid it, and that's it right there. Couple last quick questions. So people who are coming to the show, what do you sell on this year? What are people expected to hear, see, feel? Maybe give us a tease as a topic that you think is going to reverberate across the show floor this year?

Jay Martin (17:21):

Okay, so the show is in Vancouver, British Columbia. So it's largely a Canadian audience, not entirely. So this year I've invited two former premiers. I've got the former premier of British Columbia, Christy Clark, and the former premier of Saskatchewan, Brad Wall. And the reason is because there's a story occurring in Canada right now that I don't feel like many people are paying attention to, but I also feel like it's super, super significant. And this is on the back provinces like Alberta and Saskatchewan, putting forward legislation that flies directly in the face of federal policy.

(17:55):

Now, Alberta's got the Alberta Sovereignty Act, Saskatchewan's got the Saskatchewan First Act, and this legislation is built to give the provinces the power to defy federal decisions. That's, at its simplest, explanation of what's occurring here. And federal media is largely, no entirely, shutting this down and writing articles to the tune of nobody wants this, these bills are dangerous. No one wants this, least of all the residents of these provinces. But then the Saskatchewan First Act is voted in favor of unanimously, with bipartisan support, so you tell me who doesn't want this. There's this battle occurring right now between the federal government and federal sponsored media, and the provinces who are saying with louder and louder voices, the federal government is creeping too far into our business.

(18:50):

Now, I've also sat down, I chatted with Premier Christy Clark, yesterday because she'll be joined on stage with me. She feels the exact same way by the way. As a liberal premier of British Columbia, she probably feels even stronger than Former Premier Brad Wall who I spoke to. There's a rumbling occurring here, and across the country there is massive discontent at how our federal policy is just not including the provinces in their decision making and largely hamstringing them in a variety of ways. So anyways, I love getting inside the psychology of our elected leaders and so I'm sitting down with those two individuals.

(19:30):

And then it's largely about where's capital going? As an investor, what we want to do is spot the avalanche of money and get ourselves in front of it, that's the best course of action. And so I'll be joined by investors who have continually spun out massive wins. Whether on the entrepreneurial side, like Ross Beaty will join me on stage for just a fireside chat. He's built 14 companies, delivered 14, 10 baggers, the guy's a broken slot machine. So I want to know where he's putting his cash and what he's doing now. Frank Giustra, Rick Rule, Grant Williams, Brent Johnson, Lynette Zang. Like Danielle Park, I'm a huge fan of her contrarian views. And I just want to find out where's capital going? Because if you listen to enough of these individuals, they will all disagree, but you'll also find consensus in a few things. And that's where the strike point is. If you talk to a hundred different money managers, they all have different theses, but they're all saying, "But we're also all collectively going to increase your allocation to this thing." Whatever that thing is, that's the collective tsunami of capital that we want to get ourselves in front of. So lots of stuff like that. Yeah.

James Black (20:40):

Last question. Why do billionaires, people who never have to work a single day in their life, like Frank Giustra, I assume, come back and do these things? Why do they put themselves out there?

Jay Martin (20:50):

Come back and do these things like come and speak at an event?

James Black (20:53):

Yeah, what's in it for them?

Jay Martin (20:56):

I think there's some philanthropic passions there. Frank is incredibly philanthropic. And I believe, honestly James, he does it for that reason. And he's been super generous with his time, coming on the podcast a few times. And sometimes we talk shop about where he's putting cash, what companies he's investing in right now and all of this, where he sees the market going. And other times we talk about what it was like to be locked in a hotel room when he almost lost Lionsgate Entertainment. He was hours away from losing the company because of a shortsighted decision he made in his inexperience at that time. And what it was like during the darkest hours of this legendary entrepreneur's life, where his back was against the wall because he was just inexperienced at the time. But he makes these massive bets, huge swings into all sorts of industries, whether it's food, entertainment, obviously mining, and the guy is just so bold, but gets himself in trouble as a consequence sometimes. And those are often the most exciting stories. And I think we-

James Black (22:03):

We've had that theme on the show a couple weeks ago too, Jay... just sorry to interrupt. But entrepreneurs are almost addicted to that tension of the Elon Musks and Mark Zuckerbergs of the world. Not happy to sit on their laurels, but actually use their positions to try to move the needle even further.

Jay Martin (22:17):

Hundred percent.

James Black (22:18):

So, I think that's where they're at. I've got more questions, which is a great time to not continue to ask them, if you know what I mean. Because I want to bring you back and I want to have more of that idea generation. So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to wish you a great show, Jay. I'm excited on your behalf. I won't be there, but a lot of our friends and some of my staff will be there, and I think it'll be an awesome time, and certainly I'll see you hopefully next week. So any parting thoughts or anything you want to share before we sign off for the show?

Jay Martin (22:49):

No, I appreciate this, James. It's always fun chatting and catching up and sharing old memories. Yeah, that was September, 2017 when we launched the Extraordinary Future Conference and yeah, what a rodeo that was. Fun times.

James Black (23:03):

Yeah, no, hopefully there'll be more. Okay, well thanks for watching today. And this is James Black. Subscribe wherever you watch or listen to our show and we'll see you on the next one. Thanks so much.

(23:14):

Thank you again for listening to the Exchange for Entrepreneurs Podcast. A proud presentation from CNSX Markets Inc. Operator of the Canadian Securities Exchange. As a reminder, the viewpoints on this show do not reflect those of the exchange and are solely those of the guests and do not constitute investment advice. For more information about the exchange and services and listed companies, please visit www.thecse.com. Until the next show, thank you for listening, and don't forget to hit the like or subscribe button on your favorite listening platform. Thank you so much.