185 Miles South
A hardcore punk podcast.
185 Miles South
230. April 2024
What's up, everyone? We're back and talking hardcore. This week:
1. Trivia: Dan Sant (Champ) vs. Clevo (Challenger)
2. Show reviews: Side By Side/Bad Religion
3. Newerish stuff: Public Acid/Collateral
4. Fun or Unfun Facts: Hardcore/Punk songs that mention El Salvador
5. Interview: Billy Vera
6. Interview: Tom Brose (Confront)
Check out the website for our links, playlists, and SMASH that Patreon button:
185milessouth.com
185 is also on substack:
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185 miles south dot com
SPEAKER_01:smash that patreon
SPEAKER_04:button 185 miles south a hardcore punk rock podcast.
SPEAKER_02:Introducing first, the challenger, fighting out of the hard corner. From Cleveland, Ohio, you can plead your case, but you're going home blood red. He is here tonight for victory, through harmony, it is the man known as Clevo! And his opponent, fighting out of the core corner, from parts unknown, weight unknown, Reason he didn't pick Minor Threat in the Straight Edge Super 7, unknown. It is the reigning, defending, undisputed 185-mile South Trivia Champion of the World, Daniel. These questions are too easy. Sant!
SPEAKER_04:All right, and we go to Clevo for question number one. Clevo, what is the greatest hardcore song of all time? The title track off our first album, an album called Victim in Pain. This song is also called Victim in Pain. Close, but we go to Daniel for the potential steal. Daniel, what is the greatest hardcore song of all time?
SPEAKER_03:Sorry, there's a fucking spider that's just right on my leg. That's not it. Go on.
SPEAKER_04:No points this round, and we go to Daniel for this
SPEAKER_03:question. Fuck, that creeped me out. I'm wearing shorts, by the way.
SPEAKER_04:Fuck that.
SPEAKER_03:God, that just creeped me out.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, well, we should shout out to the second greatest hardcore song of all time, Retaliate, Eight Eyes on Me, in this moment.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, the greatest hardcore song of all time is Blind Justice into Last Warning by Agnostic Front.
SPEAKER_04:A point to the champ, Clevo, shame on you. And we go to Dan for his question number one. Dan, can you spell the record label's name that put out the first discharged 12-inch album? titled Why, without using all of the letters in the singer's first name?
SPEAKER_03:Without using? So, why? No,
SPEAKER_04:can you spell the record label's name without using all the letters in the singer's first name? Who's on first? Ben, this question made sense, didn't it? I ran it
SPEAKER_03:by you. Yes, I can. I can spell it without using... I mean, you can't spell it without it, but that's why I said why the only letter that you... see you you misunderstood you thought i was asking why but i was just giving you the one letter that is not in the singer's name that is in the record uh company's title
SPEAKER_04:okay well now you've twisted yourself into a jumbled mess dan is the answer yes or no The answer is no, you cannot. A point to the champ. All right. We go on to Clevo for his number two. Clevo, this is a multiple choice question. What year did SSD appear on the cover of Maximum Rock and Roll? Was it A, 1982, B, 1983, C, 1984, or D, 1985? B, 1983. We go to Dan for the potential steal. Dan, this is a multiple choice question. What year did SSD appear on the cover of Maximum Rock and Roll? Was it A, 1982, B, 1983, C, 1984, or D, 1985? It's
SPEAKER_03:got to be 1984. If it's not 83, I would have guessed 83 also. But if it's not, it's got to be 84.
SPEAKER_04:Point to the champ. Yeah, if it's not 83, it's got to be 84 because I think MRR starts in 83. It is Maximum Rock and Roll number 12, March of 1984. Okay, and we go to Dan for his round number two. Dan, true or false? Both the Japanese hardcore band Judgment and the seminal Los Angeles punk band Pennywise have songs named No Reason Why that start with clean channel guitar. I'm
SPEAKER_03:going
SPEAKER_04:to say True. A point to the champ. All right. And we go to Clevo for his round number three. Clevo, true or false? Both Minor Threat and Finnish hardcore band Appendix have songs called Scene Red that start with bass lines. True. We go to Dan for the potential steal. Dan, true or false? Both Minor Threat and Finnish Hardcore Band Appendix have songs called Sea and Red that start with bass lines. False. A point to the champ. Clevo's going to need a steal soon. We go to Dan for this one that might stump even the best trivia man of all time. Okay, Dan, multiple choice. Who was the singer of Crass? A. Steve Indi... Is it A, Steve Indignant, B, Steve Ignorant, C, Steve Denosciate, or D, Stanley
SPEAKER_03:Indignant? Ooh, is he one of the people from the Indignant family? No, I think it's B, Steve Ignorant.
SPEAKER_04:A point to the champ. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:You go to Cleveland. Just a little side thing. Steve Ignorant is coming on tour and tickets are$35.
SPEAKER_04:Welp, I'm off Steve Ignorant's fan club and into Steve Indignant's fan club. What's up? All right, we go to Clevo for round number four. Clevo, this is a before and after. If you remember the premise, for example, the band who did Bright Side and a band on Safe Inside from St. Louis, Missouri would be Killing Time and Pressure. Make sense? Yeah, of course. Okay. The Ohio band whose 1987 cassette was titled Cease to Exist and a Boston band whose first LP title was the opposite of Red Hot. That would be False Hope Conspiracy. A point to Clevo. He's on the board, motherfuckers. That was good, Clevo, because that was good. Dude, I'm writing these for your wheelhouse, although... clevo got a little burned here i think um okay dan we go to you for your round number four true or false the black flag ep six pack has been released on seven inch 10 inch 12 inch and cd seven inch 10
SPEAKER_03:inch 12 inch and cd well we know that ben has it probably behind his head right now so we're gonna check that off and i know it has been in the disgusting 10 inch category
SPEAKER_04:but
SPEAKER_03:And it's definitely been a 7-inch, but has it been a 12-inch? I'm going to say yes, it is true.
SPEAKER_04:Point to the champ. Wild, huh? That that one gets the treatment? Yeah. I mean, it's good. It's the last great EP. Let's see here. Okay, Clevo. On the Sheer Terror song Cup of Joe, does the apostrophe come before or after the O? So... For using proper English title and capitalization, it would be after. But knowing these are some ignorant fools.
SPEAKER_03:Indignant fools. I'm going to say it's
SPEAKER_04:before. We go to Dan for the potential steal and shame on Clevo for doubting a true poet in Paul Bearer that he would not know. Dan, on the sheer tarot song Cup of Joe, does the apostrophe come before or after the O?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, well, you know, a sage user of the English language like Monsieur Paul Bearer has to come after the O.
SPEAKER_04:A point to the champ. All right. And we go to Dan for his round number five. Dan, this is a multiple choice question. What is the second to last song on the Age of Quarrel? Is it A, Life on My Own? B, a life on my own. C, life of my own. Or D, a life of my own.
SPEAKER_03:This is one of those ones that like it then just makes you go,
SPEAKER_04:can you repeat them? Yeah, I have the answer right now and I don't know. Okay, multiple choice question. What is the second to last song on Age of Choral? A, life on my own. B, a life on my own. C, life of my own. D, a life of my own. I've always
SPEAKER_03:thought it's just life of my own, but you're making me think it's a life of my own. The way you said it so like, I don't know, like strongly. Life of my
SPEAKER_04:own. Point to the champ. The champ don't miss. All right. And we go to Clevo for round number six. Clevo, multiple choice. What is the catalog number for the second no future release, The Partisans Police Story Killing Machine 7-inch? Is it A, Boot 2, B, Boots 2, C, Oi 2, or D, Oi Oi D2? Oi 2 D2. Oi 2 D2.
UNKNOWN:My bad.
SPEAKER_04:How has there not been a band called Oi 2D2? What the fuck?
SPEAKER_03:And they tour with C3POI.
SPEAKER_04:That's right. I mean, imagine the imagery, dude. I mean, R2D2 already is basically a skinhead.
SPEAKER_03:For real. As
SPEAKER_04:is
SPEAKER_03:C3PO. Yeah, they both are. That's true.
SPEAKER_04:That's
SPEAKER_03:true. They're both... One is like the little squat one that always tries to fight everyone at the shows and the other one's like the methed out skin from Fallbrook.
SPEAKER_04:Right. Yeah, like the short chubby one that always starts a fight and then the tall lanky one that always gets knocked out first. Yeah. Okay. You don't have to repeat the choices. What's the record label? No Future. It's C. The answer is C. Point to Clevo. All right. And we go to Dan for his final question here of this noble trivia. Dan, the A side of the first Peter and the Test Tube Baby single has a song that refers to what two-wheeled mode of transportation? Moped? A point to the champ. It is the Moped Lads. All right. Ben, we go to you for the subtotals.
SPEAKER_05:Okay. Dan scored so many points, I had to count them just now. Dan has 10 points.
SPEAKER_04:Clevo has two. All right, well, let's kick this off.
SPEAKER_01:What? What? Okay!
SPEAKER_04:All right, Clevo, how many points do you want to wager in this final round? All right. And Dan, how many points would you like to wager? 10. Clevo's got a shot, people. If Clevo can pull this off, he can do it. All right. We go to Clevo for his first one. Here we go. Let me hear it again. Dude, as many times as you want. Here we go.
SPEAKER_03:it one more
SPEAKER_04:time. Roll it again. Again, since someone was laughing over it. Two more times.
SPEAKER_03:The second half is Turn It Around. What's the... Roll it again.
SPEAKER_04:Here
SPEAKER_05:we go. Again. One more time.
SPEAKER_03:I think I know it by now.
SPEAKER_04:Well, Dan's going to get the lyric sheet.
SPEAKER_05:No. I... I
SPEAKER_03:can't make out that first part. It sounds something like, I know it's not bang your head, but it's like...
SPEAKER_04:One more time, and then I'm going to answer. Okay. Because it's Rick, I'm just going to say, true till death, turn it around. A noble guess. Dan, do you have any guess on that first word?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, it's just one word? Never mind then. I thought he's saying, bad man, turn it around.
SPEAKER_04:No, he's saying, refocus, turn it around. Everyone,
SPEAKER_03:come on front, sing along. There's no way in hell that word
SPEAKER_04:is refocus. Okay, back off that mic, Rick. Here we go. Refocus, turn it around. Refocus, turn it around. Clevo, that's so good, getting that back part. So sick. But no dice. All right, Dan, we go to you. Here we go.
SPEAKER_03:What the... That was so fast, and it... It's so much lower volume than... All right, here we go. Okay, can I hear it five times in a row, please? Yes, you can. Here we go. Ah... It's something like we can be together till the end.
SPEAKER_04:Very close. Very, very close. We can bring it back together again. Oh. So close. I don't know if I have any... What's the playoffs left of tiebreaker? Let's see what we got
SPEAKER_03:here. I mainly chose all 10 points just to screw
SPEAKER_04:you. Thanks a lot. Okay, we do have a tiebreaker here. So because it's 0-0, we go to the tiebreaker. It is– Ben, are you on that page? Tiebreaker page, yes. Yep, okay. So here we are. It's uniform choice songs. Dan, you go first.
SPEAKER_03:Just any– Uniform choice on? Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Yep. Straight and alert. Yep. Here we go. Use your head. Okay. And got it. No thanks. And we got it. Screaming for change. And
SPEAKER_03:we got it. Staring into the sun. And we got it.
SPEAKER_04:Same train.
SPEAKER_03:Got it. Uniform choice. Got it. Silenced.
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:We will take it. We will take it.
SPEAKER_03:My own mind.
SPEAKER_04:Got it.
SPEAKER_03:When I cry.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, sir. The best emo song of all time. But no, it's wrong. It's Once I Cry. Once I Cry.
SPEAKER_03:Once I
SPEAKER_04:Cry. Yep. Shout out, Dan. The champion once again. I
SPEAKER_03:seriously was all I had left in the chamber was Region of Ice. I
SPEAKER_04:was going to go region of ice too. It's on there. And also, uh, Indian eyes I would have gotten, and then also cut of a different cause the best song off the second LP. Um, okay, Dan, congratulations. Once again, way to go, dude. Alright, what's up dudes? We are back and talking hardcore. I'm joined by someone who just vanquished another opponent in 185 Mile South Trivia. You know him, you love him. It is the best dressed man on the pod. It is Daniel Sant. What's up, Dan?
SPEAKER_03:Let's keep it real, son. Count this money. You know what I'm saying? Dude, what money?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so everyone, by the time you're hearing this, Retaliate will have played last night at the Cola Boy Memorial Show. So hopefully it was sick. And hopefully I didn't keel over or this podcast is going to be extra awkward for all you listeners. So who knows how that went down? I'm sure it was the sickest show of the year. But I did want to talk about a couple of shows that I went to a couple of weeks ago or a week or so ago. Dan and I were both actually at the side by side reunion that went down on April 13th. Dan, you are, if not the number one in the top 10 of side by sidesmen in the country what was your take on uh on their set
SPEAKER_03:um so billy side by side the bass player couldn't play for this for due to a health reason so the original guitar player eric and lars who was going to be playing second guitar was playing bass so it was the only thing that Well, first of all, before I get into the semantics, it was fucking sick. It was so good. It was so sick that I got sick from the show. But yes, so they weren't a five-piece. They were a four-piece at this show. So those parts at the beginning of My Life to Live and Time Is Now suffered from that with it just being one guitar. But all in all, it sounded awesome. Jules was up there sounding great, not getting gassed out at all, and commanding the stage quite well. I don't know. I feel like it was just as much our show as it was theirs because we were just loving it so much. I really loved it. What do you think?
SPEAKER_04:I think it was an all-timer. I'm not exaggerating when I say they were 10 times better than I thought they'd be. It was so sick, dude. I really hate watching hardcore videos. I think I'm in the minority of that. I think most people enjoy watching videos online and shit. I just don't think there's anything more boring. But sometimes I dabble. And it's always disappointing, right? It like varies from like boring to extremely disappointing to me. And I watched a couple pieces of like side by side. I think they did one show in the UK and then they did one East Coast show. It
SPEAKER_03:was in Holland.
SPEAKER_04:Okay. So they did one in Holland and then they did one out East. Is that correct? Yeah. Okay. And I think I watched a little bit from both of them and I thought they were pretty boring looking shows. And it was like, how are they not opening with Backfire? You know what I mean? It's like, you have one of the greatest opening tracks of all time in hardcore. And how can you whiff so fucking hard to come back and not open with that song, right? It's like, I don't know. It's just like an ultimate whiff, right? And so I went in really not expecting anything. And God... Damn, they delivered. They opened with Backfire. It's full on hardcore Holy Ghost. We were right up front singing along and all that. And dude, I took an old man break. I was up front for like maybe three songs and then went and took a break. You guys were up front getting pummeled the whole time by some very tasteful stage divers. None of the needle dick punch from the stage bullshit. So that was sick. The vibes were so on point. Jules was, he was fucking living his life up there. You know what I mean? Like, he came off great. The crowd came off great. And then, yeah, I mean, you say the time has now suffered and, you know, it would have been better with two guitars, but when those first notes start, uh, playing, I'm catching the hardcore Holy ghost. I'm coming out from the back again, right up front. And, uh, yeah, dude, it's, it was great more than I expected. And yeah, really an all timer. I mean, I've been buzzing off it all week. You know, we're recording this on Thursday and, uh, Yeah, I'm still feeling it. Absolutely just on point. So yeah, I hope that it lived up to your expectations, Dan.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it absolutely did. Because obviously we're not going to see a band from 1988 be just like they were in 1988. So with that kind of expectation and just the fact that I've never seen them, never got a chance to sing along to all of these songs in one go, And for the, like you said, the vibe, the crowd was just like, yes, please. You know, everyone was like, give us more. Like we love this. And, you know, personal little bit of glory when, uh, on my life to live where he just hands me the mic for the, you're living a lie part. I was fucking psyched.
SPEAKER_04:So sick. And Dan totally would have done a stage dive if his pants didn't get caught on the stage.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. I was trying to get up there and Don was trying to help me. It was pathetic. My pant loop got hooked to the coping of the stage and I was tripping over. It was terrible. I was going to do a big boy dive.
SPEAKER_04:Well, Dan, you should have just done what we told you to, right? Because before they started, we're like, okay, there's a set list. They're opening with Backfire. Just get up there and we're going to catch you. Yeah. We did this before for Madball, his first stage dive. We're like, okay, we're all going to be there. Just fucking do it. And we promise we won't let you down. You know what I mean? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It wouldn't be my first stage dive, but it would have been my first one in a long, long time.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I mean, you've definitely put on five pounds since your last stage dive, right? about seven and a half pounds okay fair but i would have taken it all straight on the head dude you know i love you but anyway so yeah that was side by side super sick and i left before either day in protest because they did not play stabbed in the back what the fuck okay the a night before though i did go see bad religion and it was pretty sick i was comped from live nation so uh thanks for all the support out there uh 185 people for uh creating a platform that like Live Nation lets me in for free. So that's pretty sick. And it was pretty wild because I was always under the impression that Bad Religion and Social D were bands that were playing, you know, two to three thousand cap rooms. And I know that we're still in this like selective post-COVID boom where some bands are huge. But for those two bands to play together in like the same spot that I saw like Motley Crue and Mana and Slayer and Iron Maiden and not be tarping off the third section. To have it be completely full all the way up through the grass area in the back. They had confirmed over 10,000 people there, which is fucking insane. You know what I mean? And it's kind of wild. I wrote a sub stack on it. You guys should all check it out. But like It's weird, right? To be in a show like that and to be hearing these songs that like, you know, some of them like their run from 88 to 91 is like my favorite shit ever. And hearing these songs and like kind of being really far away and being around that many people, but like that many people that are just kind of like tepid in their response. It's just like, it's fucking bizarre world. And I wonder like, how did, punk get here? What actually is it? Social D and Bad Religion, they're originals. They cannot be accused of not being punk like Blink and other bands that play on this level or even Green Day. I know they started in playing clubs and shit, but they've always played pretty friendly to the ear music. They've never had fast parts. You know what I mean? Bad Religion is a fucking... You know what I mean? And it's just weird to like see them from so far away with that many people and have kind of everyone just kind of take it in like you're at like a fucking James Taylor show. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, good song. Woo. Right on. You know, like it's just strange. Dan, have you ever experienced anything like that?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it. It is weird. I wonder how many people there were like, I brought my son or I brought my daughter. I got to show them what this real shit that I grew up on was. A
SPEAKER_04:lot of that and also a lot of date nights. You know what I mean? If you're a 37-year-old guy and you're bringing your girl on a sixth date, there was a lot of that, I think.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. But it is weird to see the misfits in a the golden state warriors stadium you know yeah it's weird seeing that thing but then what really comes across is like how good songs are good songs sure in any venue and then how one of the bad songs can really show itself as being a fucking crapola you know
SPEAKER_04:yeah for sure Yeah, I don't know. It was just interesting. And yeah, stoked I went. So that's that. How
SPEAKER_03:was Social D though? You didn't really get into the Social D-ness of it all.
SPEAKER_04:Well, they were a great soundtrack to my way out to beat parking. So there's that. Yeah, we watched two songs and left. I'm not a huge Social D-sman, but it is what it is. Much respect to Mike Ness. You know, he's a... He's an American icon. You know what I mean? I'm not a huge Social D fan, although I do like the early stuff. But dude, that guy is a national treasure and much respect. You know what I mean? So I'll never shit on him like Ben does. I think that's fucked up. Okay, this month we are not going to do a Poison Idea segment. We just didn't have the time to get to it. And you know the next thing in the queue is the Kings of Punk LP, so it deserves the proper respect for us to do a deep dive into it. I do want to say shout out to Mark from TKO Records. He hooked me and Dan up with a bunch of those Poison Idea represses. They are beautiful and definitely better than the ones that Tang did that I had. And definitely better than the shameful, empty Poison Idea section that Dan previously had in his record collection. So there's that. Also, let's see here. I want to shout out to Joe Hardcore and that whole crew. They rolled out the This Is Hardcore lineup. It's going down August 2nd to August 4th in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Check it out. Thisishardcorefest.com. Get your tickets. It is a wild ass mixed bill. you know imagine seeing seven seconds e-town tsunami and negative approach all in the same weekend but that's fucking insane uh i am glad they spread it out a bit because i think if like e-town and seven seconds played back to back you'd get some like event horizon shit where like time and space fold in on each other and you you gotta walk through it and you end up getting killed by a spaceship so there's that much respect handle business uh before we jump in to a I got a bunch of shout-outs, so buckle up, people. And there is a playlist for every episode, 185milesouth.com. Click the playlist link at the top of the page, or you can just find it on Spotify. I put all this stuff in the playlist at the end of the episode, so check that out. Got to shout out Mankind, new hardcore band out of San Diego. They just put out a demo. Of course, we've got to shout out Bayway. They got a new cassette called Word is Bond, including a new skit that's not out yet, Dan. It's a new liquor store skit, so I can't wait to hear that. I wonder if it'll be as good as the ones we did on the pod. The latest song they put out is something called Domino Effect, and it brings it, dude. Bayway rules, straight up. Also, Corrective Measures, they put out an EP called Not For You, Not For Anyone, rips. Identity Shock, same thing. They put out a demo and e-demo. I think it rips. There's a new sweat LP love child. I have not sat with it long enough to know if I like it or love it. Uh, stog 13, uh, Oxnard OGs put out a new LP called Holding On Volume 1. We will see if they can follow up with Holding On Volume 2 that is equally ill. A band called No Way Out put out an EP called Better You Than Me. Shout out Nico. This thing rips. You should check it out. I think it's on Triple B. So everyone's going to know about it by now. Also, the record label Extinction Burst is on a tear. They've put out two things recently that rip. Band Accelerate. That's X. Accelerate. Shout out Dan. They put out an EP called All I See Is Hate. It riffs also a band called En La Muerte. They put out an EP called Silencio. And Dude, when they're busting their fast parts, it sounds very similar to Early Suicidal. It is so sick. I love it. They are playing San Diego in the next couple months, and I'm really excited about that. Also, you know we love Melbourne, but we love it for the new wave of Aussie single coil stuff. There is a heavy band called Disdain. They're out of Melbourne as well. They put out a 2024 demo. Also out of New South Wales, Australia, Hella Weights put out a demo. 2024. That thing sounds savage. Uh, Kind of similar to the Bayway in the audio profile. Also, Echo Chamber, their self-titled EP came out. Completely delivers. It's everything you thought it would be and more. I ordered that 7-inch, waiting for it patiently. I will never send an email and say, where's my record? Because I know it's coming. What's up? The LP by Burning Lord came out, Arcane Demolition. It rules. We might have to get to that one because this has been a slow burn for me. I'm really enjoying this thing, and we might talk it next month. We'll see. Also, shout-out Pauzy Chris. He hipped us the Clockface demo, 2024 Volume 1 out of Detroit. Also, there's a new existent song. We loved that LP last year. That's a shout-out to Quality Control. Also, a band called Utility did a 2024 demo. That is another release from Fortress. We'll get to Fortress in a minute. And let me end by whiffing on this band name. Sorry State put out a band called... It's from Finland. I fucked that up harder than anyone could have, even if they tried. Uh, and the EP name is harder to pronounce than the band's name. Uh, it is only on band camp right now, but God damn that third track on that EP is possibly going to be a song of the year for me. So handle business, go to sorry, state records and, uh, Check out the EP they released of a band that starts with the letter V. So that's what's up. Okay, let's get into it, Dan. Can I just do a quick shout out also?
SPEAKER_03:Do it. Yeah, so La Vida SN Muse just hit an awesome 10 years of putting out records. So amazing label out of London. Absolutely so good. And yeah. And it'll lead us right in, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, hell yeah. 10 years, super impressive. And feel free to send us records anytime you want, dudes. Okay, let's get into the LP Deadly Struggle by the band Public Acid. Came out on Beach Impediment Records in February. This is... probably my favorite LP of the year so far in the same way that like that Speed Plans LP from last year was like kind of my palate cleanser record this is like falling into that same slot for me so basically like you know I listen to a lot of bullshit music and a lot of hardcore straight up sucks and generally we don't talk that stuff on the podcast because there's not enough time but whenever I have to wipe out all the bullshit and I want to start from like fucking square one again I put on this And it's like, all right, let's fucking go. You know what I mean? So it's really served its purpose in that slot. I want to talk something negative about the record before we get into how much I love it. And I do want to say I love this record. You know, Daniel Sari State, he made the hard sell in the newsletter about how great this thing was. And I took it as gospel. I was like, okay, I'm going in, dude. This is the true punks record. I'm going to get into, I'm going to force myself to love it. You know, also, uh, Jeff from sorry state plays in the band and I always love his section in that newsletter. So, uh, Yeah. I listened to it a bunch of times. I liked it. I ordered it. I got it. I listened to it on vinyl. I like it even more. I love this thing. Right. But I do want to talk a trope that's like, you know, been happening a lot, like, especially in like this true punk style. You know, last year we kind of shit all over distorted vocals, you know, to the point of maybe it being a little mean. And this time I want to like, kind of say something about buried vocals, you know, and, I don't know when this phenomenon like came to be because like none of the eighties hardcore bands are Rocky and like vocal super low in the mix. So it's some sort of nineties thing that ended up getting copped and copped and copped. And it just kind of sucks, dude. Like this dude has a sick ass voice and this record would be better if the vocals were up higher in the mix. You know what I mean? It doesn't mean I don't, don't like this record or nothing. It's just like, it sucks when you hear something that you like so much and there's something painfully obvious that would make it better. And I saw the dude from like prank records saying something on one of the social media platforms recently too, about like, you know, bands being scared to write hooks or, you know, it kind of along the lines here. And I think that like, there's a lot of, you know, bands kind of being shy boys and like being scared of, you know, You know, being accused of being cheesy. And I think that that like has led to vocals being distorted or buried and also bands being shy when it comes to attempting to write hooks. You know what I mean? So this band is playing here in May and I just want to make a proposal to the singer. You know, I say that... Why do you show up early? You might be playing Bakersfield the night before. You're going to want to get the fuck out of there, dude. Come to San Diego a little early. We'll go to the Crystal Pier in PB, one of the greatest places on Earth. Dude, we'll take our shirts off. We'll fucking stroll down the boardwalk to Mission Beach. You'll feel the sun on your shoulders. You know what I mean? Your walk will turn into a stride. You'll gain that confidence when you're breathing in that salty PB ocean air. You You know what I mean? And yeah, dude, get your strut on. Let's get this confidence going. And maybe by the end of our walk, you'll feel like you want to crank your vocals up from two to five. You know what I'm saying? Because I don't know. Dan, am I being too rude here? The vocals should be a little higher, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but I think you've gone overboard on the old crystal pier there.
SPEAKER_04:You don't think a stroll from the Crystal Pier to the roller coaster with your shirt off will boost confidence?
SPEAKER_03:It wouldn't for me. It might for Public Acid's vocalist, perhaps. What if a
SPEAKER_04:mad dog zonies on your way and you make a couple cower and want to retreat to the desert?
SPEAKER_03:If I can kick someone in PB Vermin right up the ass... Maybe then. Yeah, obviously it's a choice for the vocals to be layered and buried like this. But you're right. I think it would come off a lot better if these were louder in the mix. But that being said, it's still a phenomenal record. Yeah, dive into it. Well, the great thing about this, upon first listen, you... feel just the power and the brutality of what this thing is just db led destruction you know like it's noisy it's it's uh fast as fuck it's brutal and you get that and and the songs are good but upon like sixth seventh eighth listen to it you start hearing like so much more in the riffs you start to hear like there's like I don't know it's not quite like in a tragedy sense where the riff is like doing something bright and going somewhere else it's more like there are two segmented riffs that upon first listen just sound like one powerful like smashing thing but when you have your headphones and you're taking reggie for a walk around the block and you're slamming into a bush you can hear a lot more of the guitar work and it's really fuzzy but it's like so good and the way the vocal cadences are is super good like what i get from this is like a little bit like Obviously Discharge, but I get a bit of like Gehenna in there as well. I get a bit of, you know, some Scandinavian styles in there as well to an extent. But what's, I mean, it's hard to differentiate of like what you would say like the best song is, but that song Ignorance is, It's just an all-timer. It is a crusher. And it also ends in a very almost like Gehenna-esque way, or like a lot of these true punk down and dirty bands do with that just wave of noise taking out of... The song goes into a wave of almost digital noise to where you're almost in a swarm. That song is really, really... brilliant at doing that it just gives you just such a uh a felt you know a feeling of that
SPEAKER_04:real real quick just on that like i love i love that they do that stuff so sparingly right it's like they have to do it it's a trope of the style you know i mean but like they do it there on the end of ignorance and they also do it at the very end of the last song deadly struggle but like instead of having it be 90 seconds they have it be like eight seconds you know i'm saying
SPEAKER_03:Well, I don't have the vinyl. So does, uh, can you confirm if ignorance and the side?
SPEAKER_04:Yes,
SPEAKER_03:it does. Okay. So I think that's really good choices that the two songs that end each side of the vinyl give you that light out, you know, it just lets you know. So it's not an overused, uh, trope and it does kind of bring like act one and act two to an end nicely. Um, I think the bass playing and the drumming together is so good. What a rhythm section. I can't really say more other than saying this is something that is not in my go-to listening, but it is one that when this style is done really well, it's something that I dive into and re-listen to the record often. Do you know
SPEAKER_04:what I mean? 100%. This is not our lane, which is why... I know it's a spectacular record if we both like it. you know kind of all the true punk style like is too grimy for me generally you know whether it's like like for me to pick up on the nuances of it whether it's power violence or like modern DB or grind core or any of them like they have to be like really spectacular to me otherwise I just want to listen to like the the starter kit stuff you know I mean like like kind of like there's a lot of people out there that don't listen to any grind core they just like nails right it's like okay that That kind of makes sense because Todd is so good at like putting a big part in pretty much every song, right? Either a song is going to have a big ass part or it's going to be like a blazer that's like setting up the LP and the sequencing. There's a few things I think that make this LP great and like that's kind of it, right? Like every song either has a big ass moment or it's like a full on blazer. That's just showing you like we're a band that kicks ass. Also like the sequencing on this thing is so spectacular and like really takes you on our journey. Obviously it sounds savage. And, uh, you know, Dan alluded to like the, the riffing before, but like this has some serious like left hand dancing ass riffs and like they never get lazy. Like they play a riff and they move on. Um, Especially a song like that third song, The Psychedelic Depression. That first fast riff on here is probably my favorite on the record. It's full-on YOLO. It's kind of insane that they bounce through a shit ton of different riffs on this song and this record in general. It's kind of like that Dark Angel record. from the 80s that like notoriously had that sticker on it advertising like this album 67 minutes and there's 246 riffs you know I mean so that's that and yeah like there's three songs on here that are just blazers like d-beat blazers with spectacular drumming that's confession scraps of sanity and hang the leaders like those are the ones that don't have the big moments but they serve like their blazer purposes much like you know seven seconds straight on my minor threat stand-up, uniform choice sometimes, or Stalag 13 sometime. These are necessary for writing good hardcore LPs. But of the songs that have the big moments, like that first song, Slow Bleed, that song builds up to that slow bleed chorus vocal hook. It's so sick. Psychedelic Depression, already touched on it. Ignorance, that's the big mosh song. End of Pain, that 16th note picking part at the end is so good and has a really good solo on it. And then The last song, Deadly Struggle, that up-tempo breakdown at the end with that truly sick guitar solo over the top of it, it's very Dr. No-esque. And that's the guitarist, not the band, featuring the guitarist Kyle, who's scared to come on the podcast. But yeah, I don't know. I love this thing. Everyone should get it. Handle business. And that's that. Okay. Let's go on to the band Collateral. They put out a 7-inch called We Still Know. It came out as a split release between Scheme Records and Fortress Records in February. I just got it this week in the mail. And Dan, this thing is sick. What do you think about it?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, this takes, because this was one of our demos of the year last year. If not, did it win demo of the year?
SPEAKER_04:No, if Scarab didn't exist, this would
SPEAKER_03:have won Demo of the Year. True, true, true. That's right. And this just is so sick. Comes out and they have not skipped a beat. The production level is up from the demo. The riffing is up. The songwriting is up. There's maybe a little bit of a lack of insanity that the demo had on this, but I mean, there's certain songs on here that I just, like, you know, when the song's over and you just hit, run that beat back. Like the song Waste Man, the song We Still Know, that starts out with such an interesting style that's a little bit different than the rest of the record. It's really cool musically at the beginning of that song. But the first song it opens with, The Fool, that just comes out blazing. This is really good. Roots-style hardcore with just a little twist, a little bit more street-savvy in there. I don't know. How would you describe it?
SPEAKER_04:I've been begging for a band that sounds like the Sick of It All 7-Inch. Sometimes I just wonder, maybe this is as close as we're going to get. It's straight Roots, New York hardcore with... some locking out like modern locking out stuff, you know, like there's that kind of big revival of that early two thousands locking out sound. Maybe this lands somewhere between the first and second Sigval LPs with like a heavy, also locking out influence. Also like maybe the collateral demo is like the first striking distance, seven inch. And this EP is like the bridge nine striking distance, seven inch. Like maybe that's a good comparison. I think that like this EP is, is pretty spectacular especially in the production you know dan called it out but like the production on this record for like a roots hardcore record is straight up it's about as perfect as you can get you know i mean it's it sounds huge you know put this on shuffle with some other shit you like and when one of these songs pops up you're gonna be like god damn what is that you know i mean like it just sounds huge without coming off boring It still maintains the energy. The tones are great. The drums sound huge. The bass sounds fucking ill. And yeah, they've lost a little bit of the YOLO. They don't do the scissor beat on here at all, which is something that I loved about the first record. So there's that. But I don't know. There's some stuff on here that I love. Those verses on that second song, I think that's the Mind Control song. When that shit is going, I'm like, damn this is like straight up about as good as modern hardcore gets you know i mean like the riffing is fast the singing is fast and the recording sounds huge that is like such a rarity to have something like that like and it sounds like it's east standard tuning right so it's like this full hardcore rarity right now and uh yeah it's just it sounds great there's also like some really catchy stuff on here. Like the breakdown of waste, man, you know, you're high as fuck at the shows. You come for a fight, but if you come my way, we just might. So good, dude. You know? And I'm sure it's a youth of the day. Shout out. Right. Oh yeah. Yeah. But like, Those parts, that's pretty close to what I'm looking for, the sick of it all 7-inch. But anyway, also just check out how good the drums sound on the beginning of My Four Walls. God damn, that's how I want drums to sound. You know, like... Bands that are going for like this roots, hardcore sound, like this clean roots, hardcore sound should straight up go and record wherever these dudes recorded, rent their equipment and hire them on as consultants. This is as good as it gets when it comes to how things can sound. If I'm being critical, the only thing I'd say is I do miss the scissor beat. I wish it was in there. It just adds a little bit of that YOLO that they did so well on the demo. Also, I feel like sometimes they're in a hurry to get to the breakdowns. I think that's part of that early 2000s lockdown influence, which i get is super popular right now and was popular then right people love that style it's not my favorite style uh i don't hate it but you know i i like fast hardcore more than i like mid-tempo hardcore or like you know like that stuff being bouncy if it's if it's bouncy i want it to be like kind of hood too you know i mean uh
SPEAKER_03:but yeah well i i think that's where i where i said like the the streets, you know, it's got the little bit of the street smarts, AKA a little bit of like outbursty type stuff, because that's, I mean, that's essentially what locking out is going for, you know? Sure. And I do love the bounce over here. Like, and I prefer mid tempo these days to like straight up blasters. So this is really doing it for me. I really like it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I think this is spectacular. You know what I mean? Like, and I think that like this seven is just so good that like, you know, if there was three more songs on it and it was on a 12 inch, like it's like LP of the year contender. So like, it's that good. Everyone should pick it up. And yeah. Favorite songs, mind control, waste man, my four walls. Hell yeah. Dan, final thoughts.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Pick this up. Cause it's so sick. And you know, I love that they're using waste man as like a euphemism for someone crazy. being wasted at a show like it's so good shout out top boy shout out collateral we love it final thoughts are hardcore rules try and catch a show as good as what we just saw which was side by side old men can still do it that's right dan where can people find you on Instagram at Southport Instagrammer at the whistle stop every third Friday doing fucking in the bushes. My Brit pop night every fourth Friday in San Francisco at the cat club doing my other Brit pop night called leisure. And, uh, you know, get in touch if you want to, nerd out on shit.
SPEAKER_04:Hell yeah. All right, everyone, we're on the other side with Billy Vera talking about cutting an LP at Mystic Records and Tom from Confront. What's up? What's up?
SPEAKER_03:But you know what? There's things called fun facts and then unfun
SPEAKER_01:facts. Fun facts and then unfun facts. Unisign!
UNKNOWN:Unisign!
SPEAKER_04:Unisign! Hardcore punk songs that mention El Salvador. 5051 El Salvador. Capital Punishment, El Salvador. Code 13, El Salvador. Death Squad, El Salvador. Con 800, El Salvador. Crucifix, see through their lies. Dead Kennedys, we've got a bigger problem now. Dead Kennedys, kinky sex makes the world go round. Detention, El Salvador. The Dicks. Right Wing, White Wing. Doctor and the Crippins, El Salvador. Doctor No, El Salvador. The X, war is over, weapons for El Salvador. Jell-O Biafra with DOA, wish I was in El Salvador. Minutemen, Song for El Salvador, The Plot, El Salvador, Reagan Youth, Reagan Youth, Red Tape, El Salvador, The Celibate Rifles, El Salvador, The Insane, El Salvador, Unter Mensch, El Salvador, UXB, El Salvador Stomp, and X from Australia, El Salvador. That's off the El Salvador 7-inch Flexi, 1985. If you have a fun fact, let me know. 185milesouth at gmail.com. Handle business. All right, everyone. It is a podcast first. We have a Grammy Award winner and someone with a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. It is Billy Verywell.
SPEAKER_00:I like you already. You pronounced my name right. That's right.
SPEAKER_04:I appreciate that. Yeah, so, you know, this podcast is mostly about punk rock, but there is a really cool tie-in with your career because you cut a record... Mystic Records in 1983, which is kind of right before that studio started doing just a glut of punk and hardcore. But let's back up a little bit. I want to set the stage for who you are for the people that don't know. In the 60s and 70s, you were kind of a prominent songwriter, and you wrote a bunch of songs, including some really sick songs that I think people that are into late 70s punk could like, like the stuff you did for The Remains. And then you wrote songs for Fast Domino, The Shirelles. And then you also wrote I Really Got the Feeling, which was a number one hit for Dolly Parton in 79. Is that all correct or am I totally wrong?
SPEAKER_00:All correct. In fact, you know, your punk connection really is Don't Look Back by The Remains. You know, that's become a classic in the garage, whatever punk
SPEAKER_04:genre. Yeah, yeah. Right. People might refer to it as proto-punk. Proto-punk. I like it. Yeah, there you go. So after you do all that, you start doing your own band in 80 and 81. And you have a couple songs that hit the charts in 81. But you put out a record in 82, a solo record on a label called Alpha. And that Record doesn't do well, and that label closes, and that kind of puts you in a rough spot in your career. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. The Japanese who owned Alpha, they pulled the plug. They weren't happy with how the Americans were running the American division of their label. So we can blame the Americans. The
SPEAKER_04:Japanese, they had their stuff together. Apparently so.
SPEAKER_00:Well, we were the first act on the label, so we got the big push. They sent us to, they brought us to Tokyo to appear in the Tokyo Music Festival where we won the gold prize there.
SPEAKER_04:So cool. So at that point, you don't have a label. And how do you come across Mystic? Like, do you just have a contact with Doug Moody? How does that all come about?
SPEAKER_00:Well, that actually, the Mystic record was recorded in 71. I still lived in New York. And of course, 70s was a pretty rough period for me, too, because the music was changing. You know, I was known as a blue-eyed soul singer in the 60s. And of course, by the late 60s and early 70s, you know, a whole new music was playing. You know, it was like... all these singer-songwriter, wimpy singer-songwriters, and I couldn't fit very well in that. And then disco came in. I sure couldn't fit in that. And I was trying to find myself, you know, commercially and failing miserably. And so a manager I had at the time knew Doug Moody, and Doug knew of my work on Atlantic Records in the 60s. And he offered us six weeks of free studio time to record at his studio, which was the same studio that Richie Valens had recorded in when it was Delphi Studios. And so I had my bass player and drummer come out there and meet me. And just the three of us recorded this album. I brought in an ex-girlfriend's husband who was a terrific sax player to play on three tracks. And we brought the album to, oh, the fellow, I can't remember his name. He was a known jazz player, sax player who worked for Lou Adler. So who had old records. And Lou liked what he heard. In fact, so much so that he flew to New York and booked a studio just so he could hear me sing my songs at the piano alone. And he said, look, you're exactly what I'm looking for. He said, I just had this great success with Carole King and another artist like yourself who everybody in the business knows, but the public doesn't know. So I think I can do the same thing I've done. for you that I've done for Carol. And so he wanted to do that. Long story short, the manager screwed up the deal. He negotiated as though he was negotiating for Elvis Presley. And Lou just was not happy with that. And he just backed out of the whole deal. So there I was for the entire 70s, just playing struggling gigs with my little trio. And, and also there was a big oldies revival in New York throughout the early seventies. So I got a lot of work doing that as a backup band. Cause I, you know, I could play that music well. And I knew those, I knew all the artists who were all my heroes, my childhood heroes, you know, Dion and the Belmonts. We played on that album that, that they made when, when they, got back together for one night at Madison Square Garden. And that resulted in an album on Warner Brothers. You know, things like that. And then, of course, I thought my career couldn't get any lower. I wrote the song that Dolly cut. And then that, you know, put me back in action. And then I was offered a songwriting gig at Warner Brothers in Los Angeles. And that's where I formed The Beaters. just to have something to do and to meet girls, basically. When I moved out, because I didn't know anybody out here in L.A.
SPEAKER_04:Sure. So this record was recorded in 71. It doesn't come out until 1983. It
SPEAKER_00:came out, let's see, when did it finally come out? I guess it did around 83, yes, because I remember where I was living. The picture was taken in my apartment. Doug, I guess because we had a little success on Alpha, you know, I can take care of myself, made the top 30. And then the follow-up was at this moment, which only went to number 79 because the promotion man got into an argument with the guy that was running the American division of Alpha, and he quit. So we had nobody to promote the record. The Japanese pulled the plug around 82 or so. and I was left without a record deal. So I began eking out a living as an actor and playing with my band on weekends. So that was the situation until 85. And then one day I get a phone call Hi, my name is Michael Whitehorn. I produce and write a show called Family Ties. We were at the club the other night and saw you sing a song which we felt would be perfect for an episode that we have coming up where Michael J. Fox meets the girl of his dreams. And so I got a bag full of mail. You know, I had had songs in television shows, but usually they're kind of in the background. Nobody notices them, but you make a few bucks and that's it. And this time, though, I got mail. You know, who's the singer? What's the name of the song? Where can we buy it? Well, you couldn't buy it. It didn't exist anymore. And then I called whoever was left that would answer the phone to me to see if somebody would let me re-record it. Nobody would. Nobody was interested. And one day I'm having lunch with my friend Richard Foose, who owned a label called Rhino Records that put out a lot of oldies but goodies. and crazy records. And I said, and I told him what happened. And I said, what if I compile an album of the best stuff of my two alpha albums, and then you put out a single on At This Moment, maybe we'll get a little action on it. And he said, sure. And he only did it because he liked me personally. He'll tell you to this day, he never thought he'd make a dime off of it. So by the time we got the album out on Rhino, We missed the reruns of the show. And then as luck would have it, they used the song the following season when the girl breaks up with Michael J. Fox, breaks his heart. So now the story of the episode, Boy Loses Girl, is the same as the story of the song, Boy Loses Girl, and America went nuts. And NBC called up Rhino. They said, we got more phone calls than anything in any time in the history of the network. And now we had an album out and a record and a single out. And the thing starts leaping over Madonna, leaping over Bon Jovi, leaping over everybody. And next thing you know, we got a number one record
SPEAKER_04:at
SPEAKER_00:42 years
SPEAKER_04:old. Right. It goes to number one in January of 1987 and stays on the charts for 21 weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Wild. So wild. That's a career arc. Just dialing it back a little bit, though, what was it like dealing with Doug Moody in 1983? He
SPEAKER_00:was a very nice fellow, and his father helped him. His father had been the head of EMI Records in London some years earlier, and he was a real pro, as was Doug. Doug had an interesting background. He had worked in the 50s for Harold Ember Records, which had a lot of doo-wop. the Mellow Kings, Tonight Tonight, the biggest oldie of all time, In the Still of the Night by the Five Satins. And Doug was smart enough, because American Bandstand had just gone national, and Dick Clark was having trouble getting Axe to come down from New York to be on the show for scale or for free. And Doug sent Axe down there, and so Dick, who was a very loyal person, paid back Doug by playing his records, including Walking with Mr. Lee, Lee Allen, The Joker by Billy Miles, and a bunch of hits. So Doug had that. But by now, he was not doing that well, and he and his dad were running this little studio. And as I said, he offered us kindly, he didn't even know me, six weeks of free studio time. And we stayed in a hotel in Hollywood. And we made this little record. It was kind of a strange record because it was done totally on the cheap. And we did it all ourselves. And he was just the sweetest man, Doug. I really liked him a lot. And I loved his father. His father actually engineered one of the tracks, which I thought ended up being the best engineer of all the songs on the album, a song called Franny. And some of it's beautiful in a weird way. At that time, because I was searching for a style, I was free to just record songs I liked, that I wrote, that I liked. With no commercial hopes. Yeah, yeah. Not care. And it's kind of how I've conducted my career all along. I've made records I liked, and sometimes the public liked them, and sometimes the public never heard them.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Yeah. What was the conversation like, though, talking about putting out this record 12 years after the fact? Do you remember that at all? Yeah, Doug called
SPEAKER_00:me up because, you know, we had had a little success. you know, on Alpha, minor success, however it was. And I guess that was more than anything Doug had had in a long time. So he said, would you mind if I put out your album? The tapes are sitting around here doing nothing. I said, well, you know, it sounds nothing like what we just had the little minor success with. And I don't think it's very commercial, but if you want to put it out, you have my blessing to do so. I'd like to see it out there in the world for all six people that might want to buy it. And so he did. And it sold nothing, of course. But that's how it happened.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, did you ever go back to Mystic Studios other than that time in 71? No,
SPEAKER_00:no, I never had any reason to. As I say, I liked Doug a lot, but my career was going in a different direction by that time. Sure. You know, it was just skidding along.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, with your career having so many highs and lows, what... What do you feel gave you more vindication, winning the Grammy or getting your star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame? What was a bigger feeling of accomplishment?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I mean, the Grammy was not for my music, you know. It was for my historical knowledge. I got into doing a lot of reissue work for various labels, Rhino being one of them and Capitol and Atlantic and other labels. Because I... As my high school teacher, Father McCann, once said in front of the whole class, William, your mind is a veritable warehouse of useless knowledge. And of course, everybody laughed at me. And eventually, my sister, my younger sister said, you know, you know so much about rhythm and blues and jazz and rock and roll. You studied it. You've got this immense record collection. Why don't you do something with that? You know, share your knowledge with the world. And so I got the opportunity to do some, you know, get into the vaults of record companies and put out a lot of albums. I did a couple of hundred of them. And then I wrote articles online. for a British magazine on dead people, basically. And I continued to study. So that was another aspect of my career. It wasn't a big moneymaker. You don't make a lot of money doing reissue work, but it's
SPEAKER_04:gratifying. No, but that's one of the things I thought was so interesting about you is like this, you know, late career arc of you being a music historian. And I can kind of relate to it in a way where I've been a musician almost my whole life, but I might be more well known for doing this piece, like the podcast, talking about other people's music.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, there you go. So there's
SPEAKER_04:that, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I became a bit of a, considered an expert on Ray Charles, who I consider the most important person musical figure of the second half of the 20th century. And I've written liner notes to about seven or eight of his reissue CDs and articles on him. And actually, I recorded him. I was producing, co-producing Lou Rawls for three albums, and then I produced the fourth by myself. Well, on the first album with Lou, we got Ray, who listened to my radio show whenever he was in town, not on the road. And he'd call me up after the show, and he'd want to talk about the old days. You know, his old days and also the music that was around in his old days. So we developed a bit of a relationship. I won't say a friendship, because Ray was not a friend to me. many people. But he was a great musician and a genius. He really was truly a genius. So I said, look, I'm trying to bring back Lou Rawls' career. He said, oh, Lou's great. I said, how would you feel about doing a duet with him? Maybe we'll do some old Sam Cooke song. So we did. And I recorded Lou in New York with Richard T and Cornell Dupree and all these great you know, Benny Golson, Hank Crawford, all these great musicians. And then I brought the tape back to LA to record Ray at his studio. And so I come back with the, you know, the 16 track tape. He takes it out of my hands. It's a blind man. He puts it on the machine. He plays the song down. He listens to it. He says, that sounds like Fathead on the sax solo. I said, yeah, you're right. It's David. And David Fathead Newman was a sax player in Ray's band during the 50s. And he said, you know, that solo sounds like it should be eight bars earlier in the song. And then kind of without even asking permission, he takes a razor and he cuts the big fat tape and he puts the solo eight bars earlier. And you know, the son of a bitch was right. He wanted it. And, you know, I had remained friends, by the way, from my Atlantic years with Jerry Wexler, you know, the big cheese up at Atlantic Records. Sure. So I called him up about a week before I was to record Ray. And I said, Jerry, you got any advice for me? I'm recording Ray, you know, next week. He says, man. you don't produce Ray Charles. You just get out of his way and let him do his thing. So that's how Jerry Wexler and Ahmaud Erdogan made all those great Ray Charles records. They got out of his way. So I did that because Jerry Wexler was a big mentor to me throughout, both not just musically and business-wise, but also a literary mentor. You know, he'd tell me what books, because I'm not educated, you know. I'm self-educated. And he just gave me books to read and all that shit. So that was, I was finally, after doing all these Ray Charles projects, I was asked to write the notes for a box set of Ray's complete ABC Paramount singles. So I did. And for that, I won my Grammy. So, you know, that's great. And then as for the star, well, it was something I never expected, you know. I didn't think... my career was worthy of a star when all these famous people don't have stars. And my fear was that people would put me down. Why him? Why this asshole? And Angie Dickinson, the actress, she nominated me for it. So I asked her, I said, gee, are you sure? People might resent me and She said, no, no, you don't understand how it works. She said, there are, of course, there are much bigger stars than you who don't have a star on Hollywood Boulevard. But one of the criteria is that your career must have helped the city of Hollywood because it's given to you by the Hollywood Chamber of Commerce. Gotcha. So in other words, you've made records in Hollywood. You've made movies in Hollywood. You've done radio in Hollywood. You've done television shows in Hollywood. So your career has definitely helped out the city of Hollywood. So I said, but still I was concerned. So I had just signed with Capitol Records by Joe Smith, who had just taken over as president. And he had called me up and said, I'd like you to be my first signing. And I knew him socially. So I called him. I said, Joe, will you present me when they give me the star? Because Joe was known as the great roaster. You know, he would make fun of me. So I felt if... If the fun making came from my team, people would accept it and then they would be on my side rather than resent me. And I was right. His first line, he gets up on the podium and he says, Billy Vera, what do you say about Billy Vera? Billy Vera gets a hit record every 10 years whether he needs one or not. And the whole crowd there, it was, you know, they let you pick where you want your star. So I said, put it in front of Capitol Records so that they'll remember I'm on the label.
SPEAKER_04:That's great. Yeah. Well, Billy, you've been a pleasure. I appreciate your time. Oh, my pleasure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks so much for doing this. I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, you bet, man. It was a lot of fun. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04:All right, he played in Confront, and he played on the Integrity demo in 7-inch. It is Tom Front. What's up, dude? What's up, man? How you doing? What is going on? Did you also play on the Ka-Single?
SPEAKER_05:No, but I did play on Mean Streak as well, on the Only the Strong Cop.
SPEAKER_04:That's right, on maybe the greatest hardcore 7-inch compilation of all time. What's up? It's a good one. It is. It's so good. It's so good. Tom, how did you get into hardcore?
SPEAKER_05:Man, um... I would say the main thing was probably through college radio in Cleveland. There's super strong college radio scene there when I was growing up. Um, I, I probably first, you know, saw like the clash stuff like that, uh, on MTV. I like that. I wasn't too into like popular culture. Um, but something about that resonated with me. I liked that. Um, I saw the all twisted video by kraut was actually on MTV at one point. Um, And I just liked stuff like that. It was wild. And yeah, I started trying to pick up, you know, there's really good record stores around where I live too. So they had stuff. I mean, in the beginning I was like finding like dead boys and sex pistols, stuff like that. And the college radio scene there, WCSB, the Cleveland state had a couple of shows that played hardcore. And then John Carroll radio had a show called boots upside your head. And like, as soon as I found that it was just like, They were just playing Cancerous Growth and Psycho and just like every hardcore thing that was out at the time. Seven Seconds was a big favorite of mine early. So that's kind of how I got into it.
SPEAKER_04:What year is that, like getting into like that wild shit, like the Psycho, the Cancerous Growth, Seven Seconds, all that?
SPEAKER_05:I mean I started listening to hardcore probably in 1984. Yeah. I would think, because the first shows I went to were in probably the spring of 85. I hit a local show at a place called The Underground in the Cleveland Flats. And then the first big show I saw was Suicidal Tendencies at Peabody's Down Under. And that was like April 85. So that's when I started getting into it. And then probably that summer is when I started going to more shows. And I saw Black Flag in 85 and Meeting More. kids into that kind of stuff. And, you know, it's going
SPEAKER_04:head
SPEAKER_05:first.
SPEAKER_04:What were shows like in Cleveland in 85? Like what were those black flag and suicidal shows like?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, they were, they were wild for sure. Um, the black flag show they played at this place called Cleveland public theater, uh, which is on the second floor. And it was like just jammed with people. That was in June of 85. It was like, I mean, that was like maybe the hottest show ever. I'd ever been to. I mean, ever, you know, at that point, obviously it was, but it was just like, you know, like 120 degrees, people were passing out, dripping off everything, you know, Henry and his little short shorts and, you know, but the shows in general, I mean, they had a mix of people. It seemed like there were, there weren't as many young kids. I mean, at that time I was 15. There were some seem like there were a lot of, older guys to me, but they're probably like 20, you know? Right. Right. Yeah. There was remnants of like when I went to the underground, there was some local bands and there was remnants of different kinds of waves of hardcore still around. There were some different bands. Like I saw there's been plasma Alliance. They were like a Akron Kent, like peace punk hippie band. And there was a civilian terrorists, which was like a, very good they're like you'd like them i think they're like uh aggression mixed with agnostic front
SPEAKER_04:oh sick
SPEAKER_05:um
SPEAKER_04:but how many kids are coming out how many kids are coming out for those like premiere shows like suicidal black flag
SPEAKER_05:suicidal um i don't know what the cap at p bodies down under was but it was like packed
SPEAKER_01:all the way
SPEAKER_05:yeah black flag that place i would know probably maybe like 600 kids or something like that black flag that place was jam-packed jesus uh Yeah, and then they started having shows around that same time at a place called the Variety Theater, which had been, I think it had been really well known for like vaudeville and stuff. It was this like ornate old theater. And that held like 1,200 people or something like that, 1,200, 1,500 people. It had been like really beautiful in like the 20s and 30s, I guess, had like velvet seats and like ornate ceilings. And it was all falling apart by the time they started letting hardcore bands play there.
SPEAKER_04:Did you ever see a band pack that place out?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, probably Dead Kennedys played there. That was like, yeah. I mean, when Dead Kennedys played, it was probably, I don't know if it was full, but there had to have been probably close to a thousand people or something like that.
SPEAKER_04:Holy shit. So when do you meet all the dudes that you ended up doing Confront with? Like what year would that be and how does Confront get together?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. So Steve and I went to the same high school. So I met him first and he was probably one of the, the earlier guys I knew into hardcore and a lot of the people in there, we had a good scene came out of that school. And we had a bunch of people who did different bands and stuff at that school. Uh, and there were definitely some like very, like I consider it all hardcore, but you know, like the punk side of things, like do you just spiked hair and Mohawks and stuff like that? Um, and Steve was like the other, like, like nerdy, uh, dude who didn't look like that, but loved hardcore.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And then how do you guys decide to do a band?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. So we had just talked about it. We were interested. We were kind of maybe going to do something with some of the other guys who lived right around us. Charlie Gariga, who went on to Outface and now is in GB and Judge and stuff like that. But we were looking for people. He was trying to do something a little bit more on the melodic side when he started Outface. And there was... you know, as we were going to shows and other like around meeting kids from other areas, there was these guys who had a band called youth Inc. Um, and it was the first, like I would say like straight edge band in Cleveland. Uh, and they had like, you know, champion hoodies with like green wishing well unity shirts over them and stuff. And we're like, these dudes. Um, yeah. And so we got to know them and they, they didn't last very long as a band. The singer of that, uh, Well, actually, one of the guys who played bass in that went on to go sing in Outface before Derek. And then the guy who was the guitar player, Brian, and the guy who was the singer in that was this guy, Jerry Beck. And so we talked to them and we started to confront with them. Jerry wanted to play guitar. So Brian and Jerry both came on guitar. And then Brian brought his younger brother, Jay, to play drums. And so we got together and we just started... I mean, writing songs and getting after it right away.
SPEAKER_04:And the demo is 89. That's pretty late for like this wave of straight edge hardcore. When did the band actually start?
SPEAKER_05:Uh, band started in 87. Okay. Yeah, we started in 87. Um, I wish I had the dates of the actual, all the recordings. Um, we did, uh, our first shows were in the fall of 87. I just found a, I've been going through, All this stuff I have, and I found a sheet of paper where I wrote down our first show. Our second show, actually, we went to Buffalo and ended up opening for Agnostic Front and New York Wolfpack.
SPEAKER_04:Sick.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it was pretty cool.
SPEAKER_04:How important was Youth of the Day touring the country to the explosion of straight-edge hardcore in the late 80s? I've seen those photos before of them showing up in some backyard in the Cleveland suburbs and all you guys hanging out.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I mean, that blew things up for sure. I think there was also, that was very influential to us and it really grew the scene out of it. There was so much energy around it. Like seeing you today on that summer of 88 tour was pretty incredible. Just the kind of the feeling around it. I really think it had probably a bigger impact on people who got into hardcore from then. like the younger dudes, a little bit younger than me, who that was kind of their like gateway to hardcore, which I think the whole like youth crew thing came out of. I think that's where it really made its mark because that was like where a lot of people's like first hardcore was. I'd been going to shows for a couple of years and it was like, you know, listen to a lot of that similar kind of stuff or stuff that influenced them like SSD or antidote, but also like Christ on parade or, you know, just whatever stuff. But the vibe of that and the energy they brought to it that was around them, it just meant that all sorts of people were coming out. When we first came out as Confront in that time, we were trying to book shows, and we would book shows ourselves, and we'd play with a couple of the local bands. There were probably two older bands that would play with us, False Hope, who were a great band. And all dudes we knew. And also there was a band called Knife Dance, who's really good. They were older guys. Probably the singer was the first real hardcore dude in Cleveland. But they were the only of the older generation of bands that would put us on any shows. So it wasn't like, it was like mixed. We played with like leather jacket, you know, punk bands like them or stuff like that. But once that kind of summer of 88 vibe came around, tons of kids started showing up in like, you know, very like youth crew looking things and like looking for that type of hardcore.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_05:Right.
SPEAKER_04:And usually they opens it up, but you're the band if they want to go see a band more than once a year. Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. So how did that open it up for you? Like your shows went from, from what to what?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it definitely, it definitely grew. I mean, uh, we booked a lot of shows with bands like that where I got into booking shows and, you know, we started with the smaller local things, but then, um, like I booked a show with judge gorilla biscuits beyond, uh, life's blood project accent confront. And, you know, Jesus. Yeah. I have the flyer for it. It's like, uh, we called it straight edge fest. And I was like, man, I wonder if that's like the first people calling it a fast. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04:We
SPEAKER_05:did that in this little pizza place on, you know, in, in this Coventry, the street where everyone hung out. Like, I don't think there was a stage. It was awesome.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And we should say that's the tree that's referred to in the integrity song as well. Right? Exactly. Yep.
SPEAKER_05:You got
SPEAKER_04:it. Coventry. What's up? Yeah. Did any of the hardcore kids that got into the scene, like in that 88 era, like, did they care at all about the old shit? Like the pagans, the dead boys or the guns?
SPEAKER_05:I would say probably not so much at the time. That's a good question. Like ask Clevo. Cause he's kind of like of that generation, like a little bit younger than me. I don't think so. I think probably most people who stuck around, you know, got into that later. Pagans were weird. It's like, they weren't there. They didn't, Like there wasn't any residual vibe of them. Even like the dead boys, like one of the dudes would live at a– called it the back house. It was like this little house in the backyard of another house down on like East 23rd or something. And they just had like old punker dudes there. To me, they were old. They were probably like 25. But like yeah, Cheetah Chrome would still like hang around down there. But there wasn't really– I didn't really know about the Pagans until later, even though I listened to all the bands that I could see that were older than us and even that had tailed off. So I don't think they had a big legacy at that point, maybe more in the alternative space. But I think those kids who were coming in, checking out Youth of Today and Gorilla Biscuits and getting into hardcore through that stuff and skating. No, they didn't care about any of that stuff at all. And the ones who stuck around probably later learned to appreciate it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I just wonder because people like us that are from second or third tier cities, a lot of time there's more connection with the local stuff. And yeah, throughout time, it seems like people care less and less about it. So it's funny to hear about that in 88, people not caring about the roots.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I think people... I mean, also it was so hard to find stuff like that, you know, and if you knew somebody who had all that stuff and there was a lot of that generation came across as very jaded. And, you know, I loved hardcore and I loved punk and all the bands that were like, I would go see like this band numbskull play in some backyard. I'm like West 54th or whatever. I was like, I got to go see that. I heard about it on college radio.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:But a lot of those dudes were like, when they saw us, they were like, you kids don't know shit about this. Like, you know, none of you do heroin. You don't, you know, and the one guy came up to me and said, Oh dude, you can't be straight edge anymore. Minor threat broke up. I was like, I love minor threat, but what the fuck does that have to do with anything? You know? So I think that there was this like the, the not having the stuff at your fingertips and then just the dismissiveness of a lot of those people. It was like, we're just doing this. taking hardcore from where we're at and going forward with it.
SPEAKER_04:So 89, you play on the integrity demo. That's also when the confront demo comes out. What were the shows like? We're confront shows and integrity shows like all one scene, or was there a little bit of a separation yet?
SPEAKER_05:No. Well, so confront plate, we basically ended up breaking up really before integrity was playing shows. Uh, and then integrity was a very much of like a, uh, originally, uh, project band, especially like the duet had the name Integrity and was making stickers and shirts before there were any songs or people in the band. It was just like he was like a guerrilla marketing before its time. Like he had a he had a vision for what he you know, how he wanted it to be. And he was doing that stuff. And Confront really played through 89, basically, and ended up breaking up. And then we did a couple of shows in early 1990 with a slightly different lineup. But it didn't overlap in terms of playing. Integrity, I think after that, we started writing that Aaron had been playing bass in Die Hard, but he wanted to play guitar. And so we started putting stuff together and working together. And Dwyd was like, he had a very... clear vision of what kind of thing he wanted to do. Um, so we did that. We did the demo and then recorded in contrast of sin. And then I ended up leaving. Uh, and then they started playing out.
SPEAKER_04:Gotcha. So you never played a show with them? No. And so then the confront payday seven inch comes out over a year after you guys play at all. It's like, it's completely posthumous or whatever.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Yeah. We had, um, We had recorded that and it was going to come out on Combined Effort Records out of New York. They did Super Touch and they ended up putting out the Beyond LP, which I love. And that guy, Dave Stein, had been a really great friend of the band. Really nice guy. Good friend of me. Advocated for us. It just took us a little bit longer to get stuff together and trying to understand how to do a layout. And then we ended up breaking up and he was like, dude, I don't want to put this out for a dead band. I want to do stuff going forward. So it just kind of got shelved. Uh, and then, and I guess that was like 91. Do we put it out? He started dark empire and he ended up putting that out.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And then there's like a 94 CD on Boston found too. Did you, uh, have any hand in that working with Boston found?
SPEAKER_05:Did anybody have a hand in working with Lost and Found?
SPEAKER_04:Well, the weirdest thing about Lost and Found is like some of them are authorized and some of them aren't, right? So like Ignite and Batter, you're doing like legit records. And like, yeah, so it's kind of strange. And I mean, they got more songs than were out there. So they worked with someone, right?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Well, they got some live. I think they took– so we had two comp tracks. The demo was three songs. And the first song was on the Generation of Hope. comp. And then One Life Drug Free was on Only the Strong. And then there's another version of the song Right in the Eye. So they had that from the demo. And then they had a live tape from a show at the Fantasy, I think. That just came out. We had no idea about it. That was completely bootlegged.
SPEAKER_04:How did you feel about that at the time? And then how do you feel about that now because like from my perspective that's the only way i ever heard confront you know you could get those cds and it was kind of sick you know like so how did you feel then and how did you feel kind of later when you realized like oh this is the only thing keeping like the band's name out
SPEAKER_05:yeah yeah you know um i wasn't as involved in hardcore at that point i still listened to it but i was like kind of not day-to-day involved or doing things so it's kind of like i wasn't super psyched about it, but I wasn't like, you know, God damn it. They're taking away from what I'm trying to do. It was kind of a thing in the past. We didn't really have a lot of creative control in the seven inch either. Like do we just kind of did that, which, you know, he gave me a bunch and I was fine with it, but it wasn't like directed by, by the band so much. So I didn't love it. And I was like, damn, who is this dude? But also I wasn't super upset about it. Cause it was like, I don't know, I guess I'm not, I'm not like, I didn't take charge of doing a project and like push to get that done a different way. And I'm always psyched that people have wanted to like still listen to it. You know, I mean to this day, one of the reasons I wanted to do this re-release is because I live in DC and I'll go to a show and like, there's a couple of people who always come up to me and they're like, dude, you're the guy who was in confront like, you know, 30
SPEAKER_01:plus years later.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. So I hang out at the, Joint custody, record shop quite a bit. It's right across the street from my gym. And those dudes are like awesome hardcore dudes and they always are like, what about this or that? And like someone comes in and they're like, the other day I was in there and their mil spec was playing in DC and they were hanging out at the record store. And one of the guys is like, oh yeah, he played bass in the front. And the guy's like, I always wanted to ask somebody about Confront playing in Toronto in 1987. I was like, well, here's your chance, dude. Let's
SPEAKER_04:go. Well, tell us about it. What was Confront like in Toronto in 1987?
SPEAKER_05:We played a good show there, and I was telling him about we went to a house party. So we played in Buffalo with Agnostic Front and then drove to Toronto, and then we played at some place. We got paid$65 Canadian. I found that in my little note. But these dudes took us to a party. They were like, it's a condemned party or something. I was like, what's that? And they're like, oh, there's going to be bands playing or whatever. And we were walking across the front lawn and the window upstairs just exploded. Glass coming down and the toilets landed in the yard and shattered. And they're like, oh, this house is being condemned and it's the last day and they're having a punk party. And they were just destroying it. And so the guy And the guy's like, you went to that party? And I was like, yeah. And the guy from Millsback was like, Sons of Ishmael wrote a song about that. And I was like, no way. So I didn't know that there's a Sons of Ishmael song called Halloween Party that's about that event. So that was the most memorable thing about that show.
SPEAKER_04:Do you think it's funny that that logo associated with Confront is kind of a scrawny dude when you guys are all kind of big, beefy dudes?
SPEAKER_05:Well, Steve and I were– heavy set. Uh, Jay and Brian are pretty skinny. So I think, I think that was actually Jay, the, the drummer. I think he's kind of like the model for that. He's like a very skinny dude.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, there you go. Yeah, there you go. Um, when was the first time that you heard mean Steve express a sentiment that displaced people were worthless gum that should die of AIDS?
SPEAKER_05:Uh, I, I don't know if he said it exactly like that, but that album, uh, I talked to Steve recently, um, which is cool. I am not a sharer of any of his political beliefs in the slightest. So when he got off on that tangent, I wasn't as interested in staying in touch, that type of thing.
SPEAKER_04:Do you feel like Confront being so closely associated with One Life Crew has kind of hurt the legacy of the band at all?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it's definitely changed it and not in the direction I would want it to go. I think there's probably a lot of people who... That One Life Crew album sounds amazing. Again, I don't like what it says. I definitely think that Confront gets associated with that. It's not even that album or what he says on there. Confront was a different type thing. It wasn't negative. It wasn't like antagonistic as much as people think. And like, even some of the stuff that came out well before one life crew, um, definitely kind of the attitudes changed. And like, so when we'd put that record out, there's stuff on the seven inches, like the most hated band in Cleveland. And I never liked that. Cause like we weren't hated that people liked us, dude, we'd play. And there was like a lot of kids came out to see us for sure. There was people, especially some of those like older punk dudes were just like, Didn't like that we were straight edge. Didn't like that we were like relatively clean cut looking. Didn't like that our shows got a lot more people than theirs. And that's where the energy was. But we were generally popular and got along with people. And, you know, so I never liked that Confront got tagged as this, like the most hated dudes, the violent, you know, assholes. Cause it wasn't anything like that. And like, It shouldn't be viewed in retrospect as different from what it was in that time. One of the things when I'm putting out the record now I wanted to do is tell the story of Confront. And this was like, who was in the band, what we were about at that time. And I'm not trying to make it retroactive. I have very different political beliefs than Steve, but I'm not trying to put like... you know, thoughts I might have on like environmentalism on it, because that wasn't what we were about at like 17, 18, 19. We were about friendship and like our general emotions and straight edge and, you know, like stuff like that, but it was about positivity. So
SPEAKER_04:yeah. Yeah. I'm not trying to nail you down on this. Like the reason I got to mention it, right. Because, because it is a part of the legacy. Cause like they, they, they use confront like basically as a cover, right. You know what I mean? Like they covered our fight. And so it's basically like, yeah, we got these fucked up lyrics, but we can't be racist because we have an anti-racist song on the record. You know what I mean? It's like, well, yeah, but that's like a song from X amount of years ago. Right. You know, it's like when you're talking to like a skinhead and he's like a fence walker and he starts getting all kind of white power on you. He's like, I'm not white power. I have a half Mexican girlfriend. You know what I mean? It's like, no, dude, you're a piece of shit. You're a piece of shit. You know what I mean? Yeah.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Ah, that's a great analogy.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. I mean, those guys, like what they said in one life, I feel like a lot of it is for shock value. I'm not writing it all off to that, you know? And, and, you know, even like Tony was recently talking to like Aaron, I was like, he said, what you think we're racist. Cause we have a song about shooting Mexicans. And I was like, yes. It's like, yeah, but like, I don't know. Just like, don't do that. You know, just like,
SPEAKER_04:yeah,
SPEAKER_05:but
SPEAKER_04:for sure.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, yeah. The thing about it is, is that, um, I don't think, I think confront should be viewed as that. Like, like, so the release I'm putting out, right. It's just like confront, like, uh, you know, 1987 to 90. And in that timeframe, this is what it was about. And this is who we were and what we were about. And I'm sure there's some people that are going to be like, Dude, you're a liberal nerd. I don't care about that shit. You do. But I didn't try to push that into the record because that's not what we were about at the time. But I also don't think people should view Confront as what One Life Crew became. And if you like that better, you like that better.
SPEAKER_04:For sure. So you finally got this stuff up on streaming. So much respect. We love that on the pod. Appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know you got to
SPEAKER_05:redo your seven Cleveland edition.
SPEAKER_04:Oh yeah. Yeah. I'll go, I'll go in and add the songs, but yeah, yeah. But yeah, you're right. We should do it. We skipped it because it wasn't on there. Right. There was this one song, one song was streaming. Let us know what, what's up with the repress. So you're, you're going to do a 12 inch of all the material.
SPEAKER_05:Yep. Yep. We've got a 12 inch coming out on the new dark empire and we've got everyone who's was appeared on the record on board, which I think is really important. Um, it did, you know, get me back talking to Steve and I talked to him about like what, what I wanted to do with this and why it was important, you know, what I thought we'd do. We came to a good understanding of it. Um, and so I had, I had the reels from Mars studio. We were in the first hardcore bands to record at Mars. Uh, and it became legendary. People came from all over, I think earth crisis and like maybe all out war and bands like that came to record there. But I had the old reels. So we ended up sending them off to Chicago to get baked and digitized. And we got those back and we got it remixed. And then also I had a tape. I played you a couple of those songs. I had a tape that my brother had recorded on a four track. So we just have like one mic for vocals, one on guitar, one on bass, and one on drums that we'd done in– March of 88 in the basement of my parents' house, which is where we practiced for quite a while. And that had a bunch of earlier songs that didn't get recorded in the studio. And I wasn't sure if that tape was going to be just embarrassingly bad or just terrible quality or a decently lost 80s hardcore classic. And I mean, people can judge it how they want, but I was really happy with how it turned out. It's definitely raw. It's not like a, you know, same quality as a studio recording, but it's a good representation of those songs. We have a couple of covers on there, an early version of one life drug free. Uh, and the other stuff you can hear, it's just, it's super fast. Sick. What do you think the legacy of confront was? Man. Um, I know there is one because it's meant a lot to people and I have people coming up to me. Um, I have people, you know, there's, It's been really cool to hear other bands cover Confront. One of the guys who works at Joint Custody, he was in a band called Protester, and they used the Confront logo at one point. Old school Cleveland people were like, what? These guys are ripping you off. I was like, dude, these are like, I don't know how old they were at the time, 23-year-old kids who love Confront now. I can't be mad at that at all. I think people loved it. I think that we had a little... a little different sound than the traditional youth crew. Uh, it's a little harder. Uh, I think the people who kind of lump us in with like, you know, people are like, Oh, it's like you guys, someone maybe it was you guys I was talking to were like, Oh, you guys love like brotherhood and SSD. And I was like, yeah, for sure. Um, so I think that, that just a little bit faster raw, it's not metallic at all, but, uh, vibe of straight edge is something that really resonates with people. So, you know, the, the, there's people that love it. There's, there's bands that have, you know, come up and told me they've been influenced and, you know, done confront covers. There's a band in DC that I just found out, you know, grand scheme had done a confront cover, no tolerance who are awesome. Right. So it's resonated with people and I'm pretty psyched about that. And, you know, If I can get it into more people's hands or get a cool version of it into those people, in the hands of people who've loved it for 30 plus years, I'm pretty psyched about that.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah. Okay, Tom, before we get out of here, did you ever see Chubby Fresh do a stage dive?
SPEAKER_05:I don't remember that. I've seen him grab the mic and sing along, but I don't think I've ever seen him get air.
SPEAKER_04:Right on. Hey, Tom, you've been great with your time and, uh, much appreciated.
SPEAKER_05:Awesome, dude. I just want to thank you guys, uh, for having me on, but also just for everything you guys do for hardcore. Love the show. I've learned about so many good bands from you guys. There's so much hardcore blowing up right now. Uh, every time you guys go through stuff, I pick up a bunch of new things. I was driving in here today, listening to, I think colossal man and, uh, stuff like that, Live It Down, all these new bands. I'm really psyched that people are just putting out more hardcore, and you guys are helping keep that going. going
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