Why Don't More Teachers Report Abuse?

Why Don't More Teachers Report Abuse? Understanding the Challenges and Solutions

In this episode of 'One in Ten,' host Teresa Huizar speaks with Amanda Glouchkow, a Research Assistant at the University of Ottawa, about the complexities teachers face in identifying and reporting child abuse. They discuss the accuracy of teachers identifying various forms of abuse, the inconsistency in reporting, and the international differences in training and cultural norms. The conversation explores underlying factors such as teacher training, beliefs, and systemic support, highlighting the need for better preparation and support for teachers as mandatory reporters. Amanda also shares surprising findings from her research and emphasizes the importance of improving training and support for educators.


Glouchkow's study:

Glouchkow, A., Weegar, K. & Romano, E. Teachers’ Responses to Child Maltreatment. Journ Child Adol Trauma 16, 95–108 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1007/s40653-022-00473-2 

Topics in this episode

Time    Topic

00:00   Introduction and Episode Overview

01:18   Meet Amanda Glouchkow: From Design to Child Abuse Research

02:52   Global Variations in Child Abuse Reporting

05:58   Barriers to Child Abuse Detection and Reporting

11:03   Surprising Findings on Abuse Identification

15:48   Study Design and Methodology

28:02   Implications for Training and Support

35:28   Future Research and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Hi, I'm Teresa Huizar, your host of One in Ten. In today's episode, "Why Don't More Teachers Report Abuse?", I speak with Amanda Glouchkow, Research Assistant at the University of Ottawa. Now, both in the U. S. In Canada, educators are mandatory reporters, and they're key identifiers and reporters of child abuse. But how accurate are they in identifying all forms of abuse and neglect?

And once identified, how likely are they to actually report it? As you will hear, the answer is, unfortunately, well, it depends. Some forms of abuse are more readily and accurately identified than others. And concerningly, even once identified, It still depends whether or not suspected abuse is reported. But what does it depend upon?

And how can we help teachers neither over nor under report? Many of you are deeply involved in mandatory reporter training. And all of us want to keep kids safe. So I know you'll be as interested in this conversation as I was. So, please take a listen. Hi, Amanda. Welcome to One in Ten. 

Hi, Teresa. Lovely to be here. Thanks for having me. 

So, I'm so curious. I loved your article, but I want to know, what brought you to your work examining child abuse reporting and sort of teacher ability to, you know, accurately recognize it and report it? 


So, this is going to seem like a little bit of a sad detour, but I actually come from a background in design. I studied landscape architecture as my first undergraduate degree. And when I was there, there was a heavy emphasis on solving problems and finding solutions that were very applied. So then when it came into, I realized I was really interested in psych and that was truly my passion. I looked for a research supervisor for my undergrad thesis who was doing research in an area where I could see a direct relationship between the research and how it could potentially be applied into the field.

I came across my research supervisor, who, she's still my research supervisor, my master's, uh, Dr. Lisa Romano, and she has a lab at the University of Ottawa called the Children and Well Being Lab, and her lab focuses on, uh, childhood trauma. She herself is a clinical psychologist, and Many of the research projects that happen within that lab are related to various stakeholders who are important within prevention or early intervention for a child maltreatment. 

So, one of the things I was really taken by in regard to your study is, first of all, I just thought you guys did a nice job of laying out in the lit review piece of it, kind of the state of affairs and the differences. Um, around the world and some of these topics and I'm just wondering after looking at that and what you all had to say about the inconsistency and what types of maltreatment are reported around the world and, you know, what do you make of that?

Because these were not in some cases, small differences depending on the country. I mean, is that about. Differences in training, differences in culture, differences in what? Yeah, great question. Um, I think, uh, this kind of digs into the, uh, meat of the topic, which is really around this idea of complexity. 

When you get into the research and you start thinking, Oh, this is peculiar, you know, teachers are under detecting, in some cases under reporting, like, How could that happen? But then you start to really sink your teeth into it, and you realize the complexity and the number of factors that go into influencing a teacher's decision is very vast.

So I think that's 1 reason why we see so much variation. Uh, the 2nd reason, and this comes from a really wonderful study by Elazer and Hannah 2020. They were looking at factors that influence reporting, but they also spoke to how this field is really in its infancy. In terms of research, we see that in terms of predominantly the factors that we're talking about, we're looking at them as descriptive or exploratory, but we aren't really sure how the factors interact with each other.

We don't know how important each factor is. We don't know the predictive capacity of each factor. So we're really. New in that area, we also look at that. The field itself is, um, not guided by any particular methodology. There's a bit of a variation and and also in terms of theory, very few use theory. And if a theory was used, it was different.

So there's a lot of varying factors in the research that's being done. And then on top of it, you're talking about international, right? When we're looking at the research body because it's still growing, we're, we're drawing from many different countries. And so differences in discipline practices and what is considered appropriate or not appropriate or differences in laws, such as, you know, here in Canada, teachers are mandated reporters, but in other countries, that's not the case.

So yeah, there's many reasons I think as to why we're seeing these. Discrepancies, but those are some of them. 


Well, that's helpful. I really appreciated what you just said about how this field is still in some ways. And it's infancy because I think of course, because there now is a body of literature around some of this, we think of it as somehow, you know, maybe more robust than it is.

And so it's a good point that there's still lots of research questions that could benefit from being answered. Just overall, you know, in your paper, one of the things that you sort of pointed out, even before getting into your own sort of testing around the vignettes that we're going to talk about, is that there have been just sort of some generally recognized barriers to child abuse detection and reporting.

And so for our listeners who may not be experts in this area, can you just talk broadly about what those are when it comes to teachers? 


Yeah, absolutely. So if I go into teachers specifically related to identifying, we look at teacher beliefs. So for instance, teachers not feeling prepared unless they had an obvious sign such as bruising or if a child was explicitly indicating to them. 

As you mentioned before, type is a variable that seems to play the frequency, you know, if it's a one off versus a one off. Oh, I've seen this repetition, the level of impact it has on the child, and then also around teacher training and knowledge. A lot of teachers haven't received training, so they don't feel that they have the knowledge and skills.

So, for instance, this is a bit of an older study here, but here in Canada, in 2011, teachers identified that in between 30 to 40 percent didn't think they had the knowledge to identify neglect or physical abuse. So, And under half didn't think they had the knowledge to recognize intimate partner violence, sexual abuse, and emotional abuse.

So I think there's a lot of sensation of being underprepared in the identifying. And then similarly, when we look at reporting, I'm going to break it down into three categories. So we have factors around the victim. So the age of the child, the severity of it, the victim's race, their socioeconomic status, those factors play a role potentially into the reporting.

Then when we look at the teacher characteristics, we're looking at their knowledge about reporting, whether or not they've had prior experience with child maltreatment, whether that be personal, uh, within a different field, if they're a special teacher who works with children who are more likely to have these experiences, and their past training. 

There are fears and uncertainties around this topic because, of course, it can be a pretty uncomfortable process to go through. So those influence their beliefs and attitudes about their roles, their relationships, and how they feel within, say, their school system. Do they feel supported by their administration?

What was the relationship like if they reported prior in a child welfare agency? Was it positive? Did they think it was helpful? And how confident are they? And then we also have in the third category, which is systems, for instance, what's the socioeconomic status of the students around and how does that influence the reporting? Or am I in a rural setting where I know everybody in my town versus an urban where maybe there's a bit more distance? So that's a lot of them. 


As you say, it's complex, right? But really, a helpful summary. I'm wondering, because here in the U. S., and just for our listeners to know, you're in Canada. In the U.S., Really, requirements to provide teacher training are relatively recent. You may be well familiar that in the U. S. we have Erin's Laws in more than 30 states, Jenna's Law in Texas and perhaps elsewhere, but those have been passed within the last decade and those required children to be taught child safety, but also for teachers and others to have training around the ability to recognize and report abuse.

And I think we know that we still have a long way to go in terms of making sure that that training is universal, that the quality is high, that it rests on evidence of what's important for people to know, all of those things. Um, and it's also really more tilted toward child sexual abuse, not all forms of child maltreatment in many cases.

But I'm wondering, what is the existing landscape in Canada, sort of, that your study entered into? In other words, Are there requirements or has there been sort of national training programs for a long time, or is it more perhaps like the U. S. where it's still in its early days, I would say? 


Yeah, I think we're definitely mirroring the U.S. in that accord, where we're very much in the early days. Actually, the data that I'm looking at and that we're gonna probably talk a little bit more about comes from a quasi experimental study looking at Teacher training that was designed to try and improve knowledge for teachers to feel more confident.

So I guess in mirroring of the research and what you're talking about, much of this is, yeah, still very much in those early days. And it's definitely not standardized across the board. There's no, uh, legislation or mandatory criteria that, you know, teachers education needs to have this provided within their schooling. 

Thank you for setting the stage. Now let's turn to the study. And so, what were your hypotheses going to end to the study? What did you think you would find? Yeah, so when we looked at it, we had two key hypotheses. The first hypothesis focused on the types of maltreatment and whether or not, when they identified and suggested that they would report, would they be doing this at a level that they were just guessing, so that 50 50? 

Or are they identifying and reporting at a rate where they're more likely to be accurate on average?


So our guess was, or our hypothesis, sorry, was that sexual abuse and neglect And physical abuse would be identified and reported on average more accurately, that they wouldn't be guessing. And that for emotional abuse, on average, they would likely be under average.

They would likely be more likely to get this wrong. You know what's so fascinating about this? If you had just asked me the question, I probably would have set, set the hypothesis the same, which is what makes the findings really interesting and surprising, right? Because I would have been like, sure, people now have had a lot of education about sexual abuse in the media and elsewhere.

 So probably they'll get that right. Physical abuse. I mean, you know, so much of that is about marks and bruises and whatnot. So they're probably going to get that right. Emotional abuse. Gosh, that seems a little bit. Sticky. Maybe they won't get that right. Neglect. Here in the U. S. our definitions around neglect are part of the problem, so I would have guessed maybe not on neglect.

Okay, so now I've kind of set it up for our listeners to understand that we're both surprised by the findings. So talk a little bit about what you actually found on that front. 


Yeah, it was the surprising findings. So in some ways we can guess correctly. So when we, what you're saying, you know, sexual abuse and neglect, they were identified and reported above average.

And particularly in the sexual abuse case, you know, teachers are pretty confident if, like, if it has that sexual nature to it, they had it on identification, they had it on But I'll start off with emotional abuse. It was quite surprising because it actually was reported at above chance levels. That was not what we anticipated to see.

All the literature leading up to this on the whole indicated that this was a real area of gray for teachers. There was a lot of uncertainty. You know, what is the, the parent flew off the handle and said something inappropriate one time versus Something a bit more serious and significant. So emotional abuse was identified above chance levels and it was reported at chance levels.

So higher than we expected, that would still indicate that there's a bit more guessing involved in the reporting part of it. You know, I suspect that there's something off about the situation, but I don't know for sure that reporting it. To a child welfare agency might be our best bet. And then the really surprising findings in this instance, and this will also show up in our next hypothesis, is that physical abuse was actually identified at chance. So, it was a guess. And that's really surprising because when you talk to teachers about their perceived Ability in identifying reporting, they say, you know, unless I had a mark or bruise, I really don't think I would know. 

So here is this case, and I'll just lay out the case for you. The case was a child comes into your classroom.They have a long linear bruise on the back of their arm and their leg. When you ask them what happened, they say that they fell on the sidewalk. You ask mom and she corroborates that story. You've seen this happen before. So here is an example of here's the bruise. We see it. It's a bit out of the ordinary.

It's happened more than once. And yet in identification, you know, we're trying to just guessing. And then when we went further into it with the reporting, they were actually reporting lower than chance level. So even though some of them were suspecting this might be inappropriate, very few of them thought that this needed to be taken any further. 

I found that one most surprising of all. And frankly, just because the reporting was so low. It's not just that it was slightly below chance. It was like, what, 27 percent or something. I mean, it was an appalling number, really, honestly. And I was just so surprised. I mean, on the one hand, I want to recognize that my heart was gladdened by the fact that on child sexual abuse. 

It was almost universally able to be recognized and people realized the seriousness of it and reported it. I mean, above 90%. That's wonderful. But the physical abuse, I was just really taken aback. And maybe let's talk about study design for a second because I thought the way that you guys tested this was also really interesting.

So rather than just ask people a bunch of questions where they might be able to go, Oh, I know what they're fishing for, and therefore answer in a way that they think the researcher wants to find. You guys actually presented them with vignettes, correct? Were they case studies? I can't remember exactly.

You describe your own study design, but I just thought that's a great way to see if in real life somebody could. Identify that and then determine whether or not they're going to take action. 


Yeah. So a vignette or, uh, for layman's terms, like a scenario similar to what I have just described was what we use. So, there was 4 different scenarios or case vignettes, each one that exemplified a different form of child maltreatment, and that had gone through a board of individuals who determined that this was enough information to suspect and report those cases. And this type of methodology has become a lot more common within this research because ultimately, it's not a behavior that you could go into a classroom and witness on a day to day basis, which is probably a good thing.

But nevertheless, it then makes it a little bit more tricky to study. The actual behavior going into, uh, identifying and reporting. So these scenarios, as you said, they weren't just solely asking, you know, do we think that you would be able to identify it? It's, you know, we're giving a case that hopefully they can conjure up an image in their mind and envision themselves in this scenario and then ask themselves the questions that came after, which is, if you were to have this case, do you think that you would likely suspect This is child maltreatment and then they got a Likert scale of one to seven, one highly unlikely, seven highly likely.

And then based on this information, what are the odds that you think that you would report this to a child welfare agency? Again, one to seven, highly unlikely, highly likely. And then we gave them an opportunity under each of those Likert scales to provide a little bit of a rationale behind why they selected those numbers, which was helpful in trying to make sense of what we found. 

Yeah, I really appreciated that you also, in the paper, provided examples from those comments. So let's kind of dive into that, actually. Taking physical abuse for just a moment, because that was probably the most surprising finding, what did you identify in the data that, you know, like, well, this is why they don't seem to be able to recognize it.

And this is why, even if they do recognize it, they don't seem to be able to bring themselves to report it. What were the barriers? 


So when we looked at the qualitative data, what came out consistently around the physical abuse case, both for detection and for reporting, was that there was not enough information and not sufficient evidence.

And I think this really speaks to one core factor that's come up in the research before, which is this idea of certainty. There, I think, is a belief, you know, that for me to identify this, and even more so to report it, I need to feel a very high level of certainty. And so, when it came to this not enough information piece, many of them identified this desire to want to speak with their colleagues, with their administrators.

Some of them identified that they would want to talk to the student, talk to the parents. Which, evidently, in some ways is a little bit of a concern in terms of them feeling the need to be the investigators. So, there's evidently, it hasn't been very clear to teachers what their role is within this identifying and reporting area. 

And, again, when we talk about not sufficient enough evidence, again, I think that really draws in that idea of certainty and uncertainty. And that being a real underlying factor for them, you know, it's interesting, um, earlier in my career, I remember, you know, as a young professional being also very shocked by it, but a medical text around child physical abuse and the photos of the various injuries.

And what struck me at the time and still sits with me now is that. I think that many people don't realize that there are certain injuries that really are. Directly indicative of physical abuse, and it's not 1 of those, like, head scratching exercises, you know, like, well, she is that bump on Johnny's knee abuse.

Okay. We're not talking about bumps on the knees. There are, you know, really sentinel injuries that are indicative of it. And yes, it could be. creative ways that people physically abuse their children that might mimic the kinds of rough and tumble play that kids get into, that's really in practice not so much what you see regularly.

And so I do wonder, and without being overly graphic and showing people images that they'll never get out of their head, um, I do wonder if when we are training teachers around recognizing If we are, in fact, giving them enough information to be able to identify the difference between the kind of injuries kids get from roughhousing on the playground and the kinds of things that at least should raise a concern, because they're just so unlikely to have occurred in that way, in terms of.

Being shaped like an object or their location on the body or not matching at all the description that the child is giving you about how they occurred. I mean, what is your sense of it? Yeah, that's an interesting question. I mean, it probably underpins the larger piece that we talked about earlier, which is just not enough training in general, and really a need for individuals such as yourself and other people who are experts in this field to.

Be a part of and continue to work on developing these trainings for teachers, because evidently, at least within my study in terms of again, not enough information or being uncertain, you know, maybe the child is clumsy. Maybe they just fell off their bike. So I think. In what you're saying, there's an indication there that, uh, one of twofold.

First off, teachers aren't having the training, or if they are, that likely it's not targeting the specificity. And I guess the hope with my research and the prior research that comes before it, and that will come after it, is to continue to highlight those pieces like the one that you're suggesting here that indicates that when we do talk about training, Something such as what you just mentioned here would be really important, I think, for teachers to feel a bit more confident.

I realize that this is more like the discussion section of a paper than necessarily just your findings, but the other thing I was struck by is, as compared to the child sexual abuse findings, it seemed to me that because of the seriousness, which is not to say that all forms of abuse are not very serious.

But I think. In the general public's mind, child sexual abuse, if you ask a person on the street, they would say, that's just the worst of the worst. And so because of that, it seems to be, to me, that even when one isn't quote unquote certain, lay people, and probably teachers too, are more likely to err on the side of caution, right?

And be like, I should go ahead and make that report. I might not know, but this could be very, very dangerous and serious. I'm curious about then if part of what's happening on the physical abuse side is that if people are uncertain, they're erring on the side of caution on the other side of that and going, I need to see a repeated pattern.

You know, the bruise seems ambiguous to me, or maybe the injury doesn't seem quote unquote serious enough. For me to take action, I realize that your study doesn't answer that question, but it's kind of what it made me wonder about is, is there something sort of qualitatively different about the public's perceptions of these forms of maltreatment and their dangerousness?

Sort of eminently to children that also is driving some of what people are making choices around. Yeah, I definitely think in terms of sexual abuse that the line feels very black and white. That's what I think it's coming through on the data and that when it comes to physical abuse, it has more ambiguity and I think going back to what you were talking about even this idea, you know, kids are moving around all day, they fall, they bruise themselves, they roughhouse. 

And then on top of it, like, at least here in Canada, we have a section of our law that allows parents to use corporal punishment with their children. So then you also have this idea that, you know, different parents have different practices. And where do we draw that line? So there's that uncertainty piece and maybe the discomfort, for instance, if we go back to this idea of like some factors that maybe would deter is, you know, that parent teacher relationship, I know the parent, maybe I want to give them the benefit of the doubt that maybe this is a one off or whatnot, versus if it was sexual abuse, no matter how well you know the parent, you maybe feel more strongly, you know, I need to make a move.

I know in the U. S., in the literature at least, we can see that same pattern in studies that have been done on why doctors don't report child abuse. And often it's because they say they don't want to damage the patient doctor relationship. I've seen the same data as a reason for why clinicians Don't report.

So I think there, I mean, if you can see it across different disciplines, it seems like there's an argument that as child abuse professionals, we're not making or that we're not clarifying or helping people understand not only the sort of priority of relationship, you know, like, well, let's see, which of these things is more important.

But I don't want to trivialize their concern because having a good relationship is important, but is there a way to continue to have a good relationship despite having done that? And I'm saying this to an audience of child abuse professionals who often have had to tell a parent. For example, I personally have had to sit with a parent and say, Okay.

I'm going to have to report this as child abuse, but I'm telling you, you know, and here's what we're going to do about this. Here's what's going to happen after so that it wasn't like I was sneaking around behind their back, you know, that it was an honest conversation about what you've told me is concerning.

I'm required to report it. I can't not report it, but here's how this is going to go. And I just wonder if we prepare teachers, clinicians, physicians, others to have that conversation, because I was prepared for that conversation, so I could have it without feeling panicked. I mean, I didn't like having to have it, of course, but I didn't feel panicked at the thought of having it.

And I just wonder. Would it help if other people felt like they had the tools to know how to maintain a relationship past the point of making a report? Yeah, absolutely. I think that's super important again coming up in the training and also in the literature, right? I don't feel confident in identifying.

I don't feel confident in my reporting skills. I don't think I have the knowledge to know how to go about doing this and those have been identified as barriers. To universally acting in that way, and I'll just say personally, I'm also a therapist and I also feel the discomfort. And at the same time, I feel very lucky.

I'm in a field that trains and helping people tolerate discomfort and I have. Other colleagues who've also made reports before and they can walk me through that. So I have a system of support and I wonder, you know, for teachers that may not also be the case that they've had even some of that other training that would maybe make this feel a little bit more doable.

The more we talk, the thing that keeps Sort of standing out for me is we've given teachers a really important job, right? They're with kids all day long. Mm hmm. They're in the U. S. They're the most frequent reporters of child abuse period, right? And maybe true in Canada, too. But we do seriously under prepare them for the complexities of what it means beyond Oh, someone told me this or I see a bruise to how to handle all the things that follow.

On to that, what else, you know, kind of talking about the implications of your study, what do you think the implications are for child abuse professionals? If you said, okay, based on this piece of research, here are the 3 things that I absolutely want child abuse professionals in Canada and the US and elsewhere to take away from this and really know and understand about this, what would they be? 

Big question and just to clarify when you say professionals, you're talking about mandated reporters. Is that referring to? Okay. Yeah, I think 1st off is. Coming back to this idea of certainty, uh, and this sense of, you know, you don't need to investigate. You do not have to know for sure. That that part is not on your shoulders, you know, you don't have to have all this extra training in that regard of, like, really determining one way or another. 

And in that same vein, you know, you can be in certain and make a report and there isn't going to be there's also a fear sometimes of being sued or, you know, negative repercussions, you know, what if I don't get this right? And then I have something really negative happen. So, you know, if you have some suspicions.

Even if you're not sure, it's totally fine to reach out to a child welfare agency and share those. And at least here in Ontario, we have the ability to call in anonymously, share the details, and have them share with us, walk us through what that process would be like. So there are those supports on the other side.

That could be there to help with that uncertainty, and you yourself don't have to personally identify until you're comfortable. So I think that would probably be the first one that I would note. Probably the second one would just be like self compassion, if I'm honest. Like, this is a really hard position to be in.

Just what you're saying here is like, you've been given a tall order. You're not prepared for it. And I don't know about in the American system, but here in Canada, teachers are Completely overwhelmed with so many things happening in their classroom already. So I very much feel for them, you know, a lot of us have high hopes for them to implement a lot of things and recognizing it's not just solely on the teachers.

You know, you're part of a larger system. We see this with the individuals that you've had on the podcast as well. You know, there's many people working in this thing and see you're not alone and this is really hard and, and to have some empathy for that. And then thirdly would be probably. If it's an area of interest is to seek out trainings, uh, because there are a lot of professionals who do have important and useful information.

However, I will also say that I know, for instance, Dr. Bruce Perry has a training for teachers and in the lab that I'm in, they're actually looking to think about maybe piloting that as a study. But in terms of where I would send people, I'm not sure. No, I mean, I think it points to the fact that. You know, if you're a researcher of this subject and you're not entirely sure where I'll deploy people, then your average teacher, certainly without some help, isn't going to know.

So you're, you're making your own point, which I appreciate. Um, Thank you. In the U. S., children's advocacy centers, especially, are often very connected to delivering prevention education to caregivers, to kids in school, and to teachers. Many of them have worked to develop curricula. for those trainings or are partnered with the sort of governor's task forces and states that do that.

I'm just wondering if you have any advice for them as they take a look at their own curricula for teacher training around mandatory reporting. Are there some things that both from this research and just your own lit review of it that you say, The biggest implication and the thing to pay attention to as you're developing curricula around mandatory reporter training, or that if you don't have it, you need to think about how you insert it into training, would be what?

Is it this reassurance around, you know, you don't have to be 100 percent certain? Is it something else? I probably would recommend looking at the Elazer and Hanna study if I was honest about this in terms of they've identified some really important factors that are coming through, at least in this research in terms of the three core areas of, you know, you need to think about in a training.

Exploring the victim characteristics and how those might influence your decisions. So, for instance, if we're talking about younger Children are more likely to be identified, but maybe teachers also need some added support than in helping them identify older Children who would be experiencing these situations. 

Or if it comes to, I think, again, these just general areas of helping people feel confident in their knowledge about identifying and reporting, examining how their past experiences may be influencing what shows up for them when they see this. It's considering, uh, self compassion and understanding that fear and uncertainty, helping teachers or others examine their own beliefs and attitudes about reporting, or even how they feel about, let's say, a child welfare agency.

I think if we look at the history of child welfare agencies and maybe what is collectively known. I'm just. In for everyday people. I think we have an association with child welfare agencies, taking children out of the home. That tends to be a quick place that the brain would go. So I'm trying to reduce some of those misconceptions. 

Relationships, uh, again, no one group is an Island in this. So how can we help? Break out of those silos and really interconnect more. I think it, for instance, bringing in child welfare agency caseworkers to connect with another group to help them better understand what happens next. Okay, I call in, I make a report. 

What does that look like? What are the services that are offered there? So we're kind of demystifying. The general process and how different things relate and supporting and self confidence. And I think maybe the other piece too, that. We haven't touched on yet, but also the idea of differences in ethnicity and race, because we know that different groups are overrepresented or underrepresented in the system and looking into our own biases and then also thinking about how does that play out in these situations.

So that's a lot of information, but it was a wonderful summary. And so we will try to link that study in the show notes for listeners, but it was an excellent summary of all the things that are important to think about. So thank you so much. What's next for you, research wise. So I'm currently doing my master's right now, and I am still in this area.

I am specifically looking at reporting, and I'm trying to get a little bit more into looking at Interactions and how they're influencing teachers. I don't want to say too much because, uh, yeah, exactly. Um, but looking at the interactions. I'm looking at correlations, you know, here, I just listed tons of different factors seeing how do they correlate to actual reporting behaviors?

And then also, how do they correlate to vignettes? Uh, and then. I'm also looking at like how closely do cases relate to actual behaviors in terms of methodologies and looking at a little bit of theory. So, yeah, it's exciting to build on to the research and what's been identified so far. And my hope is that my survey other people will use, because I've tried to capture as much as possible from the literature so far and continue to build. 

I think ideally I'd love to help with, uh, running trainings at some point in time to try and maybe regroup back to the beginning here, which is that going more into the application. Okay, now we've learned this information. How do we take it? How do we use it in the field? Well, I hope you do. And, uh, do let us know when you've completed your next study.

We'd love to take a look at it and your findings and just appreciate that this is an area that you're diving into because I think it's one rich for A little disruption, right, and more research, so thank you for that. Is there anything else that I should have asked you about and didn't, or anything that you wanted to make sure that we talked about today and we haven't yet? 

I think maybe my one thing that I just want to make sure I emphasize is that I really do feel for teachers in terms of all the demands that they have placed on them and Definitely when it comes to this research, the idea behind this is definitely not to, uh, point out all the mistakes, but rather to recognize, you know, where is it that there's some gaps and how do we better support them and feeling confident, knowledgeable and more prepared to handle what happens in their classroom.

So this is really. Hopefully done with the intent to support all in good faith. And all facts are friendly. So I appreciate you so much coming on to one in 10, and we look forward to hearing about your research as it progresses. So thank you again, Amanda. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. 

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