Embracing hope after the loss of a daughter to suicide

The statistics are deeply troubling. Between 2007 and 2021, youth suicide rates surged by more than 60%. Data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reveals that teens living in the most impoverished areas were 37% more likely to die by suicide. However, this distressing trend isn't confined to those facing socioeconomic challenges; it also impacts young people who outwardly appear to have everything.

Angela Drake understands the devastating impact of this epidemic all too well. Her 17-year-old daughter lost her life after battling depression. Rather than allowing grief to consume her, Drake made a courageous decision to confront her pain head-on and dedicate herself to preventing further tragedies. In this episode of Grieving Out Loud, she shares her invaluable insights for navigating loss and discusses her efforts to support the community.

We want to stress that if you or someone you love is grappling with suicidal thoughts, help is available. Remember, you are not alone.

Transcript

[00:00:00] CBS News: A troubling new report from the CDC shows the number of deaths by suicide among adolescents and young adults is on the rise.

[00:00:14] Angela Kennecke: The numbers are very disturbing. From 2001 to 2021, youth suicide rates rose more than 60 percent. Data from the CDC reveals those living in the poorest areas were 37 percent more likely to die by suicide. But this trend, unfortunately, includes all young people, even those who seem to have it 

[00:00:37] Angela Drake: all. The battle that so many have in their own mind is more than anyone can ever expect.

She played hockey and wore a mask. She was the catcher for softball and wore a mask, and she would always say she felt so at home then because she was hiding herself. Today, I'm 

[00:00:55] Angela Kennecke: honored to have Angela Drake on the podcast. She suffered the heartbreaking loss of her 17 year old daughter to suicide. But instead of letting the grief destroy her, she decided to work through the pain to try to prevent other 

[00:01:11] Angela Drake: suicides.

Just really finding that piece of resilience that you may not know that you had inside of you. When you're sitting in that darkness too, you can choose to sit there and stay there and that's perfectly fine if that's where you need to be. But you can also Take some seeds of hope that you've got in your pocket and put them in the dirt with you and You know start planting something beautiful.

[00:01:48] Angela Kennecke: Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of grieving out loud I'm your host Angela Kennecke. Now before we start today's conversation We'd like to note that if you are a loved one are experiencing suicidal thoughts help is available One of the first things you can do is dial 988, or if it's an emergency, of course, call 911.

We also have a list of resources on our website, emilyshope. charity. You can also find a link on the show notes of this podcast. And please remember, you are not alone.

Well, Angela, thank you for coming on Grieving Out Loud. I am so grateful to have a chance to sit down and talk with you. I just can't believe it's taken me this long. I put all the blame on me. Because our daughters are actually together in the mausoleum, one right on top of the other in their niches. So I see your daughter, Brittany, often when I go there and visit her and think about her as well.

So I'm so happy that we're connecting. Yeah. Thank you so much. Let's just dive right into talking about Brittany. And I know that she died a couple of years before Emily. Yeah. And she was just 17. 

[00:03:11] Angela Drake: Yeah. So she was, you know, that all American girl. She was a star athlete, student, best friend to everyone that met her.

Of course, amazing daughter and sister. And just no one from the outside looking in would have ever expected anything. Did you suspect anything? We fought a very long battle and had a lot of gracious support during it. But also, you know, that stigma that goes with it really weighed heavy on her and others around us.

[00:03:51] Angela Kennecke: Angela says the stigma surrounding depression only made things worse for her teenage daughter. Brittany felt ashamed of her mental health and was afraid to talk too much about it. 

[00:04:03] Angela Drake: The battle that so many have in their own mind is more than anyone can ever expect. She played hockey and wore a mask. She was the queen.

catcher for softball and wore a mask and she would always say she felt so at home then because she was hiding herself but she could still do everything that she loved and That big, bright smile that she always wore, too, would be her mask in the world. She would hide behind that so no one would have to worry about her.

[00:04:34] Angela Kennecke: I think when we have kids who are active and playing in sports, I mean, Emily was a gymnast and a hurdler in track. I think when we have kids, we think somehow that we're inoculating them. from The Troubles, right? Either The Troubles in their own mind or The Troubles in the world are a combination of the two.

Right, you 

[00:04:53] Angela Drake: know that that's their outlet to let go of everything, but in so many factors, they feel that pressure of everything that they're doing, too, gives an extra burden almost. People that are very type A and want to be perfect for everything, you know, that's such a pressure that they build in their own mind.

It may not be put on them from outside, but just what they're going through. To be the best all the time. So what was going on with Brittany behind the mask? So, I mean, we fought tooth and nail in my big mama mouth. Went to war to get all the treatments that we could find to fight the illness that she was fighting in her own brain.

You know, she did several treatments, she medications and all kinds of things. And really we worked closely with Avera and other doctors to find new ways. But help, I think with her mental health condition, we just didn't have the research at the time to save her. We did everything we could, but it just wasn't enough.

What was her clinical diagnosis? Depression, anxiety, and some PTSD. Just from some things, some traumas that had occurred. 

[00:06:11] Angela Kennecke: Right. I think 

[00:06:12] Angela Drake: most people 

[00:06:13] Angela Kennecke: go through some trauma, right? Trauma in their childhood or trauma in general. And I think that depression and anxiety, you know, it's so common today at alarmingly increasing rates among young people.

[00:06:26] Angela Drake: Yeah. And I think, you know, we forget that when somebody takes their life, it's not just because of one box that was checked, right? It's the perfect storm all coming together. To make them feel like they have no other option and they can't get outside of their brain to understand that we've just got to get past this part and they're just not seeing beyond 

[00:06:50] Angela Kennecke: today.

You know, you've had so much time now to process what happened, but I'm sure in 2016, when Brittany completed suicide, there was no way for you to process it immediately. I'm sorry. 

[00:07:06] Angela Drake: No, and you know, I would always say, I knew in my head we did everything, but in my heart, I was her mom and I was supposed to save, save her.

[00:07:16] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. I think we all feel that way, whether it was from an overdose accidental or whether it was intentional, whatever. Every mother feels that way. Like, even though, I mean, I drug Emily to counselor after counselor, mental health issues certainly are involved with addiction and the reason people turn to substances and you feel like you've turned over every stone, you've done everything within your power, everything you knew at the time, right?

Because we all learn things in retrospect. But yet, but yet we should have saved them somehow, right? So, yeah, I mean, I think that there's just a common feeling among mothers who lose children, especially in a stigmatized way. 

[00:07:52] Angela Drake: Absolutely. You know, I always say to any mama that I work with after a loss I always say we did the best we could with the information we had at the time.

The information that I have today is way different than I had in 2016 and so is, you know, You know, medical advancement, so just like losing our children to anything else, any other disease, advancement comes along and we can save more people because we've learned more. 

[00:08:21] Angela Kennecke: You know, it's just such a tough road that we have both been on.

And one thing I had a grief counselor tell me a while back was that it would say like, only I had done this one thing, or if only, This would have happened. Maybe not even involving me. And I had this counselor say to me, you have to reframe that and say, even if you would have done this one thing, this could have happened anyway.

Even if you could have been equipped to know or to do or someone else would have done something, this still could have happened. 

[00:08:52] Angela Drake: Yeah. And that's, that's the biggest, hardest pill to swallow for all of us, right? 

[00:08:57] Angela Kennecke: Yeah. 

[00:08:57] Angela Drake: Is that no matter what we did, we can't take it back. We can't go back. And hindsight is 20, 20.

And yes, the coulda, shoulda, wouldas will break our hearts every single day, but if we don't keep moving forward, we're going to end up right with our kids. 

[00:09:15] Angela Kennecke: Right? And you know of parents that's happened to, right? I mean, I do. I know of parents that have taken their own life or drank themselves to death. I mean, it's understandable.

Have you found a sense of peace? With what happened, have you come to a sense where you can sleep through the night and you feel at peace now? 

[00:09:38] Angela Drake: I think some days I do 

[00:09:41] Angela Kennecke: I get that 

[00:09:41] Angela Drake: maybe even just moments of days I do 

[00:09:43] Angela Kennecke: I'm smiling at you because I totally get that cuz like sometimes I think oh, I'm finally like people will say Oh, we hope you can be at peace, you know with this Yeah, what happened and find peace in your life And that's always what I wanted, you know, when I was dealing with the struggle with Emily and the struggle that I was going through with her, the thing I would hope for and pray for was peace.

Right? Yes. I don't have it all the time, like what you're saying. 

[00:10:07] Angela Drake: No. And how could we? Right. That big chunk of our heart is gone. That's true. And we're walking through life without that piece of us. And we were never supposed to have to walk through life this way. We were just never supposed to have to know this.

[00:10:24] Angela Kennecke: Forgiveness involved. And I'm not saying you have to forgive her for anything. 'cause I understand suicide is very much such a sad and painful thing for the person who completes it, but I can understand how it would feel. And I, I, I feel this to some extent with Emily using drugs, you know, and just taking something that could, how could you do that to yourself, you know?

I don't know if I've ever been truly angry. I've been angry with the situation. I've been angry with the dealers. I've been angry with the boyfriend. I've been angry with a lot of things. I don't know that I've ever been truly angry with her, but it is forgiveness involved. 

[00:10:57] Angela Drake: For me, that came so quickly because I realized it was, it was a disease and she was fighting that and she could not get away from those thoughts and her brain was telling her things that weren't real.

Right. Right. I was so grateful to have. amazing people with me throughout her whole battle reminded me of that, that she's not choosing this. This isn't what she wants for herself. It's that disease that's fighting in her brain that she's got to fight against. What a battle to fight against yourself all day, every day, and how exhausting that had to be.

And I would always say, and I still do, she had to be feeling. A hundred times worse than we're all feeling here without her for her to leave. That's how bad it had to be. 

[00:11:50] Angela Kennecke: That's a really interesting way to put it, you know, or to reframe it. I think it's so important that we reframe these things in our own minds in a way that allows us to carry on, to come to terms with it, 

[00:12:03] Angela Drake: maybe.

[00:12:03] Angela Kennecke: I think acceptance is a long time coming in the death of a child. no matter what that child died from. Do you have people come up to you and say, this is what I wrote a blog on because I always, when I talk about these stigmatized deaths, do you have people come up to you and say, my child died too, but it wasn't from suicide or it wasn't from drugs.

Like, yeah. Doesn't that drive you crazy? 

[00:12:26] Angela Drake: Yeah. 

[00:12:26] Angela Kennecke: And they said, I'm really sorry you're experiencing grief too. I always just say, it doesn't matter how our children died. Grief is grief. You know, you're not here. Yeah, but I always think it's so interesting because people just want you to know that their child didn't die of a stigmatized death, you know, and I just always think that's bizarre.

[00:12:45] Angela Drake: Yeah, it's not like we took them out of this world. We didn't choose for them to go either and they didn't either. No. And I think so many people forget that or don't know that or aren't educated enough to know. I think with the 

[00:12:58] Angela Kennecke: accidental fentanyl poisoning, you know, she chose to use a drug, but people can understand, oh, she didn't know fentanyl was in it, so she really wasn't intending to die.

But when they complete suicide, it's hard for people to understand because people just haven't been in that space before, in that mental space. 

[00:13:14] Angela Drake: Yeah. 

[00:13:14] Angela Kennecke: You know? 

[00:13:15] Angela Drake: And I don't think Brittany wanted to die. I just don't think she knew how to keep going. Yeah. It's like she was standing at the top of a burning building and couldn't see the fire trucks coming.

Her only option was 

[00:13:29] Angela Kennecke: to jump off that building. So I'm sure this has been very traumatizing for you, your other daughter, the rest of the family. How have you coped with that trauma? 

[00:13:40] Angela Drake: I haven't stopped talking. Um, and that, I think you know how healing that can be. For some people like you and me, maybe not for everybody.

Yes. Yes. Yes. For some people. And I don't mean that we have to talk to the world. But we have to talk to somebody and whether that's out here loud and proud like we all are because we're very proud of our children, but you have to find some way to talk through it, either a therapist or a friend or family member that can truly listen.

And then just really finding that piece of resilience that you may not know that you had inside of you when you're sitting in that darkness, too. You can choose to sit there and stay there, and that's perfectly fine if that's where you need to be. But you can also take some seeds of hope that you've got in your pocket and put them in the dirt with you and start planting something beautiful.

in honor of, of your loved one.

[00:14:47] Angela Kennecke: Whether you're someone who finds comfort in sharing your emotions, or you prefer to keep them in private, Angela stresses the importance of surrounding yourself with loved ones during times of loss. Having

[00:15:02] Angela Drake: your tribe, that's been huge for me. Friends, family members. Sometimes strangers have really been able to support me and allowing that that's hard for me. I'm very much a doer and I need to just keep going and keep going and I realize there are times that when I know I need to fall apart, I got to do it now or it's going to go anyway, right?

So giving myself grace to take that moment to, you know, do that full body cry when I need to. So, you know, I may be Wonder Woman. Every day, but I don't have to wear that crown and make Cape every day. It's okay to take a break. And those mini breaks add up very quickly in your day, whether I'll take five minutes to dance to that goofy little song that nobody knows I listen to, or five minutes to snuggle up with our puppy, or little things like that add up very quickly to a good self care.

It doesn't always have to be a long, big thing to be self care. 

[00:16:08] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, I find animals to be very therapeutic. My dog is very therapeutic for me. Just taking a minute to stop and to pet her when I'm stressed or upset just seems to help tremendously. Yeah. I think that's why dogs are so popular in today's world, you know, because we all need a little bit of that.

But I agree. It's like, I know you are a small business owner. You are running your organization, your charitable organization. You're like me. You're super busy and you can get caught up in the busyness and not leave time for yourself. And I think that I'm not as good at handling stress as I was before my daughter 

[00:16:41] Angela Drake: died.

It builds up so much quicker, but I've come to realize, okay, I feel it. It's like that balloon getting bigger and bigger, right? I've got to stop and de stress or just let go. And you know, I'll buy cheap plates and write things on them and throw them against the wall. And that's a big stress reliever. Who cleans it up?

Do you clean it up then? And that's also therapeutic, you know, or just going out to the rink cause that was always home for us. Just little calming things. You know the things that will reduce that air out of that balloon before it bursts. That was probably the hardest thing throughout my whole grief journey is that just realizing where I'm at in my moment and is it time take the time to do it or it's gonna take the time from me.

Yeah, 

[00:17:35] Angela Kennecke: so what do you think it is inside of you? And you're a couple of years ahead of me even on what I always call this grief journey. What do you think it is inside of you that made it possible for you to not only move forward but to do some pretty amazing things in Brittany's honor? 

[00:17:53] Angela Drake: You know, I've always been the girl that had talked too much on her school report card and I screamed and I shouted throughout my whole life for my girls and anything that they needed.

And Britney's battle is over, unfortunately, but there's still a big war to be fought. And I still have this big mouth, so I might as well use it to do something good. And if I can also honor my daughter, man, Britney loved to help other people. And that's truly how this all started was, you know, that first bouquet of flowers that showed up the night she died.

And I said, Oh my gosh, Britney would be so mad. And people are spending money on flowers. We could do something so good with that money. Please make sure no one sends flowers. Instead, put the money in an account and we'll figure it out later. That night that Britney died, Fight Like a Ninja was born and we didn't even know it.

Wow. That 

[00:18:50] Angela Kennecke: thought came to you right away. Yeah. So for me, it may, it took a month or so. I mean, before I started thinking along those terms, but that's 

[00:18:57] Angela Drake: incredible. Well, that was always Britney's answer. When she saw flowers come, she had been delivered flowers a couple of times and She was like, this is such a waste.

Do you know, we could have fed three people for this or, you know, her heart was so good and so kind. And she was so giving and I knew the second those flowers showed up. That was my instant reaction is we have to honor her in a big way.

[00:19:27] Angela Kennecke: And what better way to honor her daughter than through the sport. Brittany loved hockey. Angela used the money she received after her daughter's death. to create a nonprofit called Bite Like a Ninja. Just seven months after Britney's death, the group held its first hockey tournament.

And you've continued those hockey tournaments to this day, right? 

[00:19:50] Angela Drake: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:19:51] Angela Kennecke: So what happens with the 

[00:19:52] Angela Drake: funds that you raise? So we do a 4, 000 scholarship in Britney's honor to one girl that plays hockey. We've done some endowments to the Avera Foundation to help other families. I was a single mom during much of Brittany's battle and didn't have the funds to go after these treatments that she needed and Avera Foundation came through for me.

And so I wanted to then make sure that they had continued funds to keep helping families like ours. And so on Britney's 25th birthday, we were able to add another 25, 000 to that fund and just keep that going because that's so important. Not everybody has the funds to pivot and make a new decision because insurance won't cover it or they don't have a house to mortgage to pay for it.

Or they can't meet their deductible, right? There's all kinds of expenses involved, all the things, and so we wanted to help in another way that way, and so we were able to do that as well. That's amazing. And just reaching out and reaching out to other nonprofits and partnering with them any way that we can.

And starting conversations through different things that we do in the community just makes all the difference in the world. 

[00:21:11] Angela Kennecke: So have you heard from any of the young women who have received the scholarships? Yeah, I'm so proud 

[00:21:17] Angela Drake: of all of those girls. How many have you given out? Do you know? So this year will be our ninth one.

[00:21:23] Track 1: Wow. 

[00:21:24] Angela Drake: Yeah, because we did it the very next year. So it's so exciting to see them graduate and start their lives and. That we had a small piece of that with $4,000. It doesn't go far in college, but that's a nuisance scholarship. That's not that at all. Yeah, it's, and so, you know, watching these girls just shine and this past Ninja tournament, we had an alumni game and all of those girls came back to participate in, either they played or they helped ref or announce, or were just there.

And that piece last year was just. Like, fill my cup, or yep, this is, okay, absolutely, we're doing this.

[00:22:14] Angela Kennecke: While Angela has some days that are rewarding, she admits others remain challenging, particularly on holidays and birthdays. Has it gotten easier as time has gone on? 

[00:22:26] Angela Drake: I don't think it's gotten easier. We've just adjusted better. We know that they're coming, those big ones, right, birthdays, angel days, Christmas, things like that.

So. Brittany's angel day and her birthday are five days apart. Yeah, because she was about to turn 18, right? Yeah, 

[00:22:44] Angela Kennecke: she was just five days from turning 18. Her 18th birthday must have been the most devastating time for you. 

[00:22:51] Angela Drake: It absolutely was. And so we take a Brittany trip every year in her honor and have an adventure, Bochy and I.

That's your other daughter, we should mention that. Yeah. Yeah. That's a nickname, right? Yes, that's her nickname from Papa. Gone to Hawaii, we've gone to Colorado for hockey games and we just go on an adventure in her honor instead of sitting at home in the, in the thick of it. 

[00:23:19] Track 1: Yeah. 

[00:23:19] Angela Drake: No matter where we're going to be, it's going to be a tough day.

But if we can have an adventure that we know that we could have all three enjoyed together. It helps just a little bit, 

[00:23:30] Angela Kennecke: right? I 

[00:23:30] Angela Drake: feel 

[00:23:31] Angela Kennecke: that way. Christmas was such an important holiday to Emily. It was her day. In fact, I have a blanket made out of her Christmas socks and sweatshirts and blankets and all that kind of stuff.

I couldn't leave this year around Christmas, but I like to leave because it's just a hard time to be at home. I think these, whatever you need to do to cope, I think you should do, right? It's different for every person, but whatever you need to do, you should do. 

[00:23:54] Angela Drake: Yeah, for Christmas, we kept Brittany's tree that she had in her bedroom.

Every year, somebody sends us a new ornament to add to that. So not only are we remembering Brittany, but it so helps to get a message from a friend or a family member that's thought of us enough to send us an ornament for that tree. 

[00:24:15] Angela Kennecke: I, um, have really struggled over these past few years. And been sort of fascinated with the life after death, you know, anything to do with that.

I mean, what happens after we die? I believe none of us really know. I mean, it's great when people say just have faith or, you know, drives me nuts when people say, Oh, she's with Jesus now. So you should be happy that it's not something she's not with me. Yeah. Don't say that if someone is grieving, especially a parent or anybody, don't, don't say that, but, so what do you think happens after we die?

[00:24:48] Angela Drake: I don't, I don't have that crystal ball. I wanna hope and know that she's living on, and her light is shining in so many ways, and I always say, when I see a beautiful sunset, I'm, that's her. She painted that for me. And I think I have to hold that into my heart because I need that. But I don't know. None of us know.

Yeah, 

[00:25:09] Angela Kennecke: I think that. In a way, our daughters live on through us because their DNA is imprinted on us, you know, when they're in the womb and we're both doing this work. Emily's, you know, we try to keep her art alive and her story alive and same with Brittany, you gravitate to the sport that she loved and you keep her name alive as well.

And I think maybe that's a big part of it. 

[00:25:35] Angela Drake: I know, you know, Brittany would be 26. She would be. Having a career and I know she'd be helping people, whatever she chose, you know, she had that full ride to college. She was planning to become a psychiatrist to help kids because she understood that. And so it's just heartbreaking to know that she'll never get that opportunity.

But I can stand in this world and keep her light shining and help some kids along the way. 

[00:26:01] Angela Kennecke: I love that sentiment. I love what you're doing. And do you work with newly grieving mothers? I mean, do you talk to a lot of people, parents that have gone through this kind of thing? Do they seek you out? How does that happen?

[00:26:12] Angela Drake: Yeah, a little bit of both. I used to be part of an organization that paired us up. I took a step away from there, but all the mamas that I've met along my way, I always say collect people, not in a serial killer way, but in a you're in my heart way. Hopefully not in a serial killer way. Yeah. And then, you know, so the mamas that I've collected are just a unique, amazing bunch of women that I've gotten to know and, you know, some have just reached out, they've seen our story and so they've reached out and we've just become good friends.

You know, a broken mama heart sees another broken mama heart. No matter how we've lost our kids, it doesn't matter. our heart is never 

[00:26:53] Angela Kennecke: unbroken. Right. I think that's hard for the rest of the world to understand as well. Have you had people that have been not very understanding? Have you lost people along the way who are no longer part of your life?

Oh, 

[00:27:07] Angela Drake: absolutely. And I think any major event in your life allows you to see who those people that exit are. Right. Maybe superficial people, right? People that were. Yeah. It was a very difficult thing for me to take right away is. Oh 

[00:27:23] Track 1: yeah. , 

[00:27:25] Angela Drake: the people that were exiting our life and I was devastated and couldn't figure it out.

Some have come back and just said, I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to say anything, so I said nothing. 

[00:27:38] Susan Bartz Herrick: Oh, 

[00:27:39] Angela Drake: and so we've had a conversation and I'm Don't ever do that. If you don't know what to say, just show up and be silent. Just show up. You 

[00:27:47] Angela Kennecke: can show up with a plate of food, or you can just show up, get a card that says it for you, or whatever.

Yeah, I think people are very uncomfortable. With child death in the first place and also especially with suicide and or overdose or any kind of stigmatized death I think they're very uncomfortable many people and I think you're right people Either exit and I certainly had my share of people exit.

They want me to stop talking about this subject They just want me to shut up I'm not gonna do that my vocabulary where they can go, but it doesn't mean that It's easy for me when they leave. It's another loss, right? A loss upon a loss. I've talked about that on this podcast before. And then there's also the people that remain deafeningly silent and to this day have never said a word to me.

who were part of Emily's life when she was growing up, or whatever the case may be, and that's almost harder to take than the people who just exit, because I just figured, well, they were superficial people that weren't really there for the tough moments in life, right? But it's the silence, I think, that's hard.

[00:28:54] Angela Drake: Yeah, and I've had to give grace to some people that have either been silent or exited because I don't know what they're carrying. Right, 

[00:29:04] Angela Kennecke: that's true. And you hear some people say, like, funerals are too hard for me, and I'm just like, oh my gosh, you're missing the point. Funerals are hard for everybody, but you just need to show up, you know?

[00:29:16] Angela Drake: Yeah. The night before Brittany died, we were at another family member's funeral, 

[00:29:21] Angela Kennecke: or 

[00:29:21] Angela Drake: the wake for him, and it was extremely hard, and you know, we had some tough conversations in that car ride home, and then to have the day of my cousin's funeral was the day Brittany took her life, and. My entire family caravan from one funeral to us immediately, and just the power in everybody, like literally a hundred cars showing up was amazing.

[00:29:51] Angela Kennecke: Right. The support like 300 people at the visitation for Emily and I was just like, oh my gosh. But I felt so bad for people during the pandemic, people who are losing people, that kind of support. You don't even realize what it means at the time because you're so in shock, but 

[00:30:06] Track 1: you 

[00:30:06] Angela Kennecke: don't even realize till later just the power of someone's presence and of multiple people's presence, right?

So just showing up is so important and to not worry so much about saying the wrong thing. It's better just to say, I'm sorry, I'm here. Don't ask what you can do because we don't know. 

[00:30:27] Angela Drake: Give me a list of things. Send me a cleaning lady. Can you mow my yard? You know, give a list of the things that work for you to do and maybe leave them on my counter, you know, with your name on it or just send gift cards because that gives me the power to choose what needs to happen.

But all in all, like my closest and nearest dearest just showed up and sat on the couch. We didn't say a word. But we just were 

[00:30:54] Angela Kennecke: there. Yeah, no matter how difficult it is on you. I think that's so important. And I just, I love everything that you're doing in Brittany's name. I'm going to continue to use you as an example when I speak to groups.

I just think it's really cool. I love women playing hockey anyway and girls playing hockey and I think that it's fantastic that you're encouraging other young women. 

[00:31:15] Angela Drake: Well, your husband and son have come out and helped with the hockey tournament. 

[00:31:19] Angela Kennecke: Yeah, because they're hockey guys, they're refs and they love being on the ice, so that's for sure.

Well, thank you again, and I know I'll be visiting Brittany the next time I visit Emily at the mausoleum, so I am just so grateful to connect with you and, again, everything that you're doing. And you've also supported Emily's Hope, so. Any way that we can support you, I would be honored to do it. Thank you so much.

And thank you for joining us on this episode of Grieving Out Loud. If you found it helpful, please leave a positive review and share it with your friends and family. Remember, together, we can help those who are struggling and leave this world a better place. Next week, we hear from a woman who was doing just that.

Susan Bartz Herrick lost her son to fentanyl poisoning. She's channeling her grief to raise awareness about substance use disorder. The book she's written about her son's story is now being turned into a screenplay, 

[00:32:23] Susan Bartz Herrick: possibly becoming a movie. I'm very honored that Luke's best friend, Jacob Taylor, who is an actor, pushed this and he got some pretty well known screenwriters to write it and they are out there pitching it right now.

Tom Foran is one of them and Tom writes for it. That's 

[00:32:46] Angela Kennecke: next week on Grieving Out Loud. Until then, wishing you faith, hope, and courage.

This podcast is produced by Casey Wundenberg King and Anna Fye.